# Colony Breeding questions



## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Does any one here do Colony Breeding?
Whats the pro's and cons of it?
How many does do you leave in with the buck?
Do you seperate the pregnant does or leave them together?
Do you leave the buck in the cage or remove him?


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## MarlaAlVutha (Nov 7, 2009)

windyhill said:


> Does any one here do Colony Breeding?
> Whats the pro's and cons of it?
> How many does do you leave in with the buck?
> Do you seperate the pregnant does or leave them together?
> Do you leave the buck in the cage or remove him?


I have one line of siams that I am colony breeding. I have 4 adult does in with the buck. I heavily cull each litter to one or two does. I leave them together at all times. The does help each other raise the litters and the buck even helps a lot. 
I am constantly cycling through the does tho. After a litter or two I decide if the doe is working out to what I am looking for and decide to keep her in or remove her. I also keep the best buck after a couple breedings and I use this buck to replace the adult buck when it is of breeding age. Every time I find a new does that will work towards my goals I remove one that is not working out or not working out as well, but I make sure I have at least one offspring from her.
So far my colony is working out very well. They are working out pretty well towards my goals. I have never had an instance of sickness or agression with them. I will admit that they are not handeled as much as my others and tend to be more skittish, but when they are removed they settle down and make great pets or breeders for other projects. 
Hope some of this rambling helps you out.


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## nuedaimice (May 26, 2010)

I used to keep a heavily line bred colony of Satin PEWs.

I would keep my two best bucks and about 3-4 does (the does were always either the mother/sisters/daughters of the bucks). I would cull the litters down to a manageable number, and keep back the best babies. I would often separate does until they reached maturity, but leave bucks in. If after they were fully grown, I found that one of the babies was better typed than a current colony breeder, I would remove the older animal for cull and put in the younger one for breeding.

I found that every generation I was replacing the older bucks and does with better animals. I never put out crosses into this stock. The only time I would recommend an out cross is when its something your colony lacks.

You can make vast improvements colony breeding ONLY if you continue to cull heavily and constantly replace the old stock with newer and better stock.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks.
Do the bucks ever harm the babies if left in there?


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

As a feeder breeder, I colony breed a lot. Three girls to a buck per cage/tank/whatever. We tend to follow simple rules with ours and deal with whatever comes up when it happens. 3 does to a buck. Never change a colony around once it is formed. Our male will now always stay in that group and will never be replaced within it (keep reading!). Only the girls around him will vary slightly. We find the girls will generally all give birth within a few days of each other and help each other out. They take turns to feed and clean and keep warm and we've had less runts, neglect and baby eating by doing it in a colony. Our latest litter of 12 had no visible runt/s at all. We watch them closely until feeding time, when I will go and sit with them a while, looking at best conformation, coats, colours and choose which I'll not be needing for further breeding in the colony. The not needed will be culled and then fed to the snakes. The better ones will be kept until next feeding day.. where I choose which I'll not need again and so on until I have 2 does. The two does stay and the cycle in said cage will start over. This goes on for four generations - when everyone is culled for food, unless there is an exceptionally good mummy or some keeper girls. I'll then find a new buck to go with these girls or if I haven't reached my goal by the fourth generation (usually small goals lol) then we start afresh.

At some point there will come up a great buck and he will be kept but removed from the cage and put with two either unrelated or one unrelated girl and a sister and so the cycle starts in this cage.

It works perfectly for feeders and you can clearly see the improvement in the babies with each generation.

The main thing we find is to NEVER remove or add or replace a buck once he is settled with his girls. The girls prefer this too. All our bucks have been great Dads, very protective over them and so gentle. We've found that when our bucks have been moved or replaced or so, the girls get quite defensive and take a long time to accept him into the colony again and will fight him away from the babies.

Of course, if your not breeding this way for food, it will vary and I'm not sure I'll employ exactly this method with my new mice who are not freeders (feeder breeders) but will likely adapt it slightly.


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

As a feeder breeder, I colony breed a lot. Three girls to a buck per cage/tank/whatever. We tend to follow simple rules with ours and deal with whatever comes up when it happens. 3 does to a buck. Never change a colony around once it is formed. Our male will now always stay in that group and will never be replaced within it (keep reading!). Only the girls around him will vary slightly. We find the girls will generally all give birth within a few days of each other and help each other out. They take turns to feed and clean and keep warm and we've had less runts, neglect and baby eating by doing it in a colony. Our latest litter of 12 had no visible runt/s at all. We watch them closely until feeding time, when I will go and sit with them a while, looking at best conformation, coats, colours and choose which I'll not be needing for further breeding in the colony. The not needed will be culled and then fed to the snakes. The better ones will be kept until next feeding day.. where I choose which I'll not need again and so on until I have 2 does. The two does stay and the cycle in said cage will start over. This goes on for four generations - when everyone is culled for food, unless there is an exceptionally good mummy or some keeper girls. I'll then find a new buck to go with these girls or if I haven't reached my goal by the fourth generation (usually small goals lol) then we start afresh.

At some point there will come up a great buck and he will be kept but removed from the cage and put with two either unrelated or one unrelated girl and a sister and so the cycle starts in this cage.

It works perfectly for feeders and you can clearly see the improvement in the babies with each generation.

The main thing we find is to NEVER remove or add or replace a buck once he is settled with his girls. The girls prefer this too. All our bucks have been great Dads, very protective over them and so gentle. We've found that when our bucks have been moved or replaced or so, the girls get quite defensive and take a long time to accept him into the colony again and will fight him away from the babies.

Of course, if your not breeding this way for food, it will vary and I'm not sure I'll employ exactly this method with my new mice who are not freeders (feeder breeders) but will likely adapt it slightly.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks Onyx 
I put my merle buck in with a merle & roan doe, hopefully this works.


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## nuedaimice (May 26, 2010)

I've never had a problem with bucks hurting the babies or fighting.

That being said, I use huge tanks for colonies, to give the bucks plenty of space. You will usually have one buck that mates with the does, and the other is a subordinate (but this gives you a back-up buck established if something ever happens to the other buck without re-introduction).

I never remove young bucks that will be replacing an older buck, because as Onyx said, the does won't accept him. The only time I remove an older buck is when he is being replaced with an already established younger buck, and the older will be culled and never placed back into the tank.

If you ever keep multiple bucks, then make sure there is plenty of room and extra hidey holes to prevent fighting.


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

As well as space, things to do, investigate and make their own is important, I find. As nuedaimice says, lots of hidey holes so they can go their separate ways when they need and want to and lots to do. The more distracted they are from each other the better. I know most people keep their cages pretty kitted out as it is and don't like to fill them too much because it makes it messy etc but you can't go wrong with an extra couple of toilet roll tubes and a cardboard box =)


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

As long as your males are dosile, and you haven't seen any signs of aggression towards other mice before, they should be fine to leave in the cages.

I have one buck, who is a great dad. He even picks up the little babies and moves them back into the nest when they wonder off. :roll:


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for the info and tips everyone


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Let us know how it goes! I've been curious about colonies since reading this topic...


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