# Flame's Litter



## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

So I obtained Fleeting Flame, a very large, shiny satin Argente from Emma of Tinyheart. I will post a picture of Flame when I take one in better lighting and can get her to hold still lol. Anyway, I bred her for brindle which she's carrying. She had 13 babies, but only two brindle. A couple were runty, and a ton were PEW.

So this is what I got:










This was taken yesterday but since they've changed so much since I culled down heres an updated, crappier one:










But as you can hopefully see, they all got fuzzier and shinier SINCE YESTERDAY. All caps, its that insane. No idea about the sexes yet. When they were pinkies I didn't have too much trouble but for whatever reason these guys all look the same to me right now. :?


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh god, these brindles are amazing!


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Flame and those baby argentes are probably PE brindle...discovered this when I bred her brother-his markings were much darker. They look really great! I am proud as punch to see these!!!!! I would be interested in taking back the lighter striped baby, is it a satin female? If they were all satin that would be killer. Who is the father?
You will have to post bottom pics so that we can help!!!


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## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

Sharon_ said:


> Oh god, these brindles are amazing!


Thanks  I likes em too.



tinyhartmouseries said:


> Flame and those baby argentes are probably PE brindle...discovered this when I bred her brother-his markings were much darker. They look really great! I am proud as punch to see these!!!!! I would be interested in taking back the lighter striped baby, is it a satin female? If they were all satin that would be killer. Who is the father?
> You will have to post bottom pics so that we can help!!!


I thought you might be proud of her  I'm not sure yet about who's satin. In person, they're all shiny right now but some are shiner than others.

I'll let you know if I decide to adopt anybody out. I'm pretty sure I'm keeping at least one of the brindles, probably the one you're talking about..  not sure on the sex of that one. The other darker brindle I'm almost positive is a boy. I think I see nipples just starting to appear on both the argente's bellies. So, we'll find out soon!

I'll post a pic of dad, and mom if anyone's interested.


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm interested haha  We don't have this kind of brindle here, so I'm really happy to see some pictures of it


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## ccoryjohnn (Jul 2, 2010)

They're so cute! I love brindles. As well as satins!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Good looking babies!


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I would love to see pics of dad!!! I'm definitely looking for a nice satin stud, so keep me in mind if anybody turns up male. lol.


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## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

Sharon_ said:


> I'm interested haha  We don't have this kind of brindle here, so I'm really happy to see some pictures of it





tinyhartmouseries said:


> I would love to see pics of dad!!!]


Heres dad:









Heres mom:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6124/595 ... b7cf7e.jpg
Sorry this picture is so crappy. She's a little skittish and this is the only one I have without poo in it lol.



moustress said:


> Good looking babies!





ccoryjohnn said:


> They're so cute! I love brindles. As well as satins!


Thanks guys!



tinyhartmouseries said:


> I'm definitely looking for a nice satin stud, so keep me in mind if anybody turns up male. lol.


Alrighty heres the official say on the babies:

The lightly marked brindle is a satin female.
The darker marked brindle is a normal male. 
One of the argentes color is very similar to mom. She is not a satin.
The other argente is also a female and is satin. I think this one is slightly lighter than the other.

I'll probably keep the lightly marked satin female but the rest are kinda up in the air right now.


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## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

Better pic of mom... can't believe I got her to hold still this time!









Dunno if this picture will accurately depict it but it also looks like the satin argente is developing a very lightly brindled pattern. :shock: Her color was a little weird but I definitely didn't expect that. In the picture, she's the more brown looking one, as opposed to the fluorescent orangey coloured one.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi Flame! And ooh dem babies is purty---I do like the new brindling that's showing. Flame's brother looked like that, leading me to believe that flame is seriously UNDERmarked brindle. Her fur looks kinda wavy in that pic..but she was never a rex.


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## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

tinyhartmouseries said:


> Flame's brother looked like that, leading me to believe that flame is seriously UNDERmarked brindle. Her fur looks kinda wavy in that pic..but she was never a rex.


Oh interesting! Do you have a picture?

IDK whats up with the waviness in that pic. I think it was just because of the way she was sitting. I did notice when I first brought her home that she has pretty thick fur & that could contribute. It definitely hasn't started getting wavy looking in person though!


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Here's a pic, in terrible lighting...showing his back and the brindling.


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## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

That's very similar to whats going on with the brindle/argente baby. The brindling almost looks like an undercoat color because its so light but when you see it in person, you can tell it definitely isn't. I think this type of really light brindle might work well if paired with someone heavily brindled, dunno.

Eyes barely opened today.  Flame has been such a great mama to them and I'm so happy to see how chubby and healthy they are. Their tails are nice and thick. Because i've been holding them so much they're also very very tame. I don't expect there will be any popcorn stage (whew)


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Updatesss?


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Just a note.....you have A^vy brindle and it is a dominant gene, so it cannot be carried...a mouse with a copy of A^vy will ALWAYS be brindle (though some can be undermarked or overmarked to the point of not looking brindle). You do not need to breed 2 brindles together to get more brindles. You would get brindles out of your male bed to ANY doe. This litter is no indication whether Flame is or is not brindle.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Stina I was sure that Flame was like Asploda (RIP) and just undermarked. The litter she was born into contained only brindle and black, and PE examples of both. She was an odd little bright yellow mouse, but genetically could have only been A^vy. This would make Wildrose's litter A^vy/A^vy, if I've got all my p's and q's right here.


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## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

Phew, finally all moved into my new apartment! I was without internet access or tv for an entire weekend... :shock: lol

Litter update... the male was moved to his own tank 3 days early because he started harassing his female companions. I didn't see anything but I heard some squeaking and figured he was the problem. :roll: I'll probably be trying to adopt him out because one of my last litters was ALL males. :x I'll be posting in the "for sale" section of this site soon. I'd ideally like to do a trade with people for blue or rex... but yeah, lets save that for another post.

Other than that, they're all doing good. Very tame, which is always awesome. The biggest and most healthy looking is the plain ol argente. She is huge compared to her siblings and has the thickest tail. I'll have to get a picture of her soon. The stripey argente got a little bit darker stripes and is clearly brindle of some kind... maybe blue brindle (blue stripes on a light background)? I'm not sure. I've never seen a blue brindle before so its just a shot in the dark. I'll be keeping the regular female brindle for sure because her markings are so nice and clear.



Stina said:


> Just a note.....you have A^vy brindle and it is a dominant gene, so it cannot be carried...a mouse with a copy of A^vy will ALWAYS be brindle (though some can be undermarked or overmarked to the point of not looking brindle). You do not need to breed 2 brindles together to get more brindles. You would get brindles out of your male bed to ANY doe. This litter is no indication whether Flame is or is not brindle.





tinyhartmouseries said:


> Stina I was sure that Flame was like Asploda (RIP) and just undermarked. The litter she was born into contained only brindle and black, and PE examples of both. She was an odd little bright yellow mouse, but genetically could have only been A^vy. This would make Wildrose's litter A^vy/A^vy, if I've got all my p's and q's right here.


I'm aware that brindle is dominant. I'm not sure if Flame is undermarked brindle or not, I've been going under the assumption that she's not because I can't really see any signs that she is. She may just be plain argente carrying brindle. I'm not sure that it matters one way or the other, she produces really nice babies & I'm very happy with her.  But for the sake of the argument, she did have a fairly large litter and only 3 turned out brindle. A large majority were argente. I don't know if thats any reliable indication that shes argente & I don't know how many of those babies would have turned out to be "brindle argente/blue brindle?" like the one I kept, had I not culled them. I guess we'll see what happens the next time I breed her. One things for sure, her color is still very interesting and bright.

Oh, and btw I love the name Asploda, tinyhart! That's so creative.  RIP little mousey!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Because brindle is dominant, she can't be "plain argente carrying brindle". If she has brindle in her genotype, she's brindle. It may not show in stripes (appearing argente or even red/fawn), and may not show in her children as stripes as well. Undermarked brindles make for some lovely orange mice when you don't have access to ee and either don't have access to or prefer not to use Ay.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Wildrose Asploda was Stinas mouse who was also undermarked brindle...so she's the creative one this time, lol!!!!

I did do the genetics on this one and Flame is indeed brindle....The line does not carry argente because it doesn't carry Agouti at all, almost all of my brindles are Avy/a. To carry any agouti they would have to be Avy/A, and they are not. I know she doesn't have a stripe to be seen, but sometimes with marked varieties, placement and abudance, or lack thereof of marking IS genetic....so it does make sense that she had some babies that were as undermarked as her. 

I can guarantee you that Flame is Avy/a, and the PEW I gave you is genetically brindle too!

I had a black piebald momma who was so undermarked that she was BEW, and she indeed had a BEW baby in her litter too. it's so interesting!


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## wildrose (Apr 27, 2011)

Lol sorry guys. Just now looking back on this thread. IDK what I was saying, must've been completely drunk or something.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

You are OK!!! I have a really good grasp of A genes, so ask away if there's anything I can help with.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Flamae is gorgeous; I really like the rumply bumply texture of her coat. With the satin, it is quite interesting.


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