# A tricky pairing



## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Hello!

I'm currently weighing my options for the next step with my line. I've miraculously managed to track down what appears to be an astrex buck with a wonderful, docile personality. Unfortunately, he is agouti which is quite difficult to rehome.

The doe is a mystery. She's a long haired satin but remember we couldn't decide if she's ce/c or ce/ce. Finding blue and beige in the same litter was odd. So either she's a dark bone/stone or her PEW sisters are hiding ce/c (right?) . Her mother is blue, and the father is either ce/c or ce/ce. Again, tough to tell with the satin coat but the majority of folks here voted ce/ce based on his appearance. Her grandmother is pied RY, if that helps anything.

For this pairing I would be crossing my fingers for LHSA and not too concerned about colour. However, I don't know what to expect which makes me nervous. I have a huge worry that the entire litter would be agouti. It's guess work in most cases but I know I'm asking you guys to truly guess here!


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

It all depends on what the buck is carrying, and whether he's AA or Aa. As far as astrex, if he's a poor example chances are he's not homozygous for this.

As agouti is dominant, if he's AA, all the babies will be agouti, but will be Aa. If he's Aa, and doesn't carry blue or any recessive c dilutes, the babies will be 50/50 agouti and black. Satin is recessive so no babies in the first generation would be satin.

The next gen if you pair sibs would give you a mix of astrex, long hair, satins, possible blues, and, less chance but posssible, some pied and RYs. It depends on whether the mother inherited any of these genes from her mother and passed them to her daughter.

So, there's a lot of possibilities with this buck, but not many would eventuate in the first litter because of the recessives.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Thank you so so so much! I'm so happy to see you're still posting.  Mouse genetics seem so difficult to get one's head around. Although I figured no babies would be satin I was hoping to see astrex in the first generation. Oh sigh.

The owner said she'd send a video of him to me tonight so I can take a closer look. She said he had slightly longer fur as a young mouse, and his brother was long haired. Lots of blacks and "browns" in pied form among his siblings. She has no idea about the parents. Her mouse lingo is very poor - she's a rat breeder. But she indicated a colour that sounded like there might have been blue.

It certainly wouldn't be easy to get to him - I basically have to send my doe to a friend in another city who will make the long trip north to him. All agouti, or all black and agouti likely wouldn't be a good position to be in! Definitely need to think on this. : /

If only I lived in the States!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

^ That's him, by the way. He's a year old now, so I can't quite tell if he's a poor example.


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes, I certainly pop in here occasionally to see what's happening in the international mousie world! It's a great forum. 

You have a difficult decision with the buck you're considering. The vid shows he is docile and very well socialised and cared for. He's obviously a pet type, but he has potential.

As far a his coat goes, it could be a poor long coat - at a year even the good long coat males loosed a lot of the length. He *could* also be rex, but again a poor example. Neither of these drawbacks are innsurmountable though, with careful breeding.

But - given the effort to arrange the pairing, I'm not sure of the potential gains, given that the babies of the first generation would not be what you want at all.

Are you sure you can't get a mouse from the US? Can't they be bought across the border as a pet?

Anyway, I'm delighted ot osee you are still a mousie person as well as a rat breeder!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Most helpful post ever. <3 Thank you!

I just saw some better shots of him and I cannot for the life of me figure out what that coat texture is all about but his whiskers look straight to me.









He certainly seems docile and cared for.  But I'm thinking along the same lines you are. I want the first generation to have a good chance at finding good homes as I don't want to keep an entire litter, even if I did cull the males.

To get one from the States will be tricky as it requires a car and getting the mouse back across the border, haha. I don't think I have the balls to do that. ;D I don't have a poker face at all! I think I'm looking at another pet store mouse. Sigh.

Oh not a rat breeder, just a rat owner!  Love them to pieces, but there are so many homeless rats here.


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## love2read (Aug 30, 2011)

Too bad you're not closer to my part of the states. I have a friend with a Canadian mouse connection and could get you some Rex if you really wanted them. 

I've already sent some Hairless over the border, so maybe you'll start seeing them popping up in the fancy up there soon. 

Your boy has a funky-looking coat, but with his whiskers not being curly it makes me think he's not really a Rex...I guess you'll find out when he has his first babies!


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

You say he is a year old right? To me his coat texture looks like my old buck who is standard coated but out of condition and has a poofy coat now.
Most of my retired mice get poofy when get old.

Does she have any pics of him when he was younger, that would show his coat better.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Gah, where on earth are the Canadian fanciers? I know of one in Waterdown, Ontario, but she sticks to standard coats I think. I feel badly even considering this as a contact about an hour away had a little mouse explosion. Parents are feeder mice but I feel badly knowing they'll likely end up in careless hands. /ramble

Is it expensive to send them over? I think there are a few interested people in Ontario but it'll require some organization. Your mice are gorgeous - I hope I see them somewhere!

Yes I think he's around a year now. My year old buck looks a lot more "normal" than that though, granted he is satin. I saw a video a few months ago of this mouse and he did look a little curly.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I opted against this pairing due to the less favourable colours in the F1 litter. Rehoming is rare but I like to give them a chance.

Toronto appears to be almost entirely out of satin but there's ONE pet shop way the heck on the other side of the city that says they have a few male satins ranging from "grey, gold, and brown and white."

My doe carries RY (her grandmother and aunts are RY), and though I understand her ce/c or ce/ce will dilute the RY in a possible RY pairing, does this mean it could dilute to a pale yellow? I'm sure it's not show worthy but I think those are lovely. Moustress has amazing examples of them.


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