# This is terrible!



## RockyMountainMice

I was browsing youtube for natural rodent enclosures to see if it may spark any ideas and I stumbled across this video.




It's not graphic or anything, just completely rediculous in terms of husbandry.
I am shocked! :x Those poor animals! The mice especially.  
What the hell is this person thinking? Ugh!
Sorry I just had to share with someone whom I thought may share my feelings on this.


----------



## Stina

:shock: Wow...what a disaster waiting to happen!  Ridiculous! ...I think I even saw baby mice under the mouse in the front corner.....


----------



## RockyMountainMice

I know! :evil: People frustrate me so much.
It's quite obvious those poor mice are *very* unhappy and stressed.
If the rats don't kill them a heart attack will.


----------



## Gill

There was something small and pink in both front corners. I sincerely hope they weren't baby mice.


----------



## RockyMountainMice

Me too. If they were, they definitely looked dead.


----------



## moustress

This is really not as awful as it seems. Rats and meeces can get along if they are raised together. I don't know if I'd trust them to live together, though. In the wild they compete for the same eco-niche, remove that from the picture, and you get different behavior.


----------



## Stina

Rats, even raised with mice, have been known to kill mice. It is a bad idea no matter how you look at it. There was also a hamster in there...and syrian hamsters are territorial and solitary animals. That is also a tiny space for all those animals. The video is entirely as aweful as it seems.......


----------



## moustress

I missed the hamster; you're right!


----------



## Rhasputin

On the bright side, I don't think that's a baby, it looks like a potato or something, since it seems to be in a pinle of other veggies. I also don't think that they live in there, but the owner is letting them 'play' together in there. If they lived in there, the plants would be much more chewed up, and I'd imagine that someone would be in worse condition from fighting. It looks like it is a 'play' area, not that they should be allowed to play together anyways.

Here's a worse video, that was suggested when I watched that one. I reported it for animal abuse, and you should all do the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LMaOawv ... re=related

as well as this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgJlE14X ... re=related


----------



## RockyMountainMice

Oh geeze those are terrible! I also flagged them.


----------



## sys15

i swear, some of you seem to live for nothing more than opportunities to criticize what other people do with their animals. the animals clearly do not live in that cage, they were obviously placed there for the video, or to "play" or whatever. they aren't fighting, and since there is a handheld video of the event, they are obviously being supervised.

i wouldn't do it with my animals, i don't understand what satisfaction the owner derives from it, but i see no reason to criticize every little thing that other people do with their animals.


----------



## RockyMountainMice

I just feel horrible for the mice - they are clearly in distress.


----------



## SarahY

I don't think they are in distress at all, they seem perfectly relaxed to me. Nor do they seem afraid of the young rat in any way. The mice are happy to be in close proximity to it and are not running away from it, and they are displaying no signs of fear or agression. Not something I would do myself or recommend to others at all (particularly with a Syrian hamster!), but the animals seem absolutely fine and in good health. They obviously don't live in there. I don't know the motives behind the video of course, but I really don't think it's that terrible


----------



## RockyMountainMice

Maybe you are right. 
But the Cinnamon/brown colored one is all poofed up and squeaking repetitively when the adult rat comes near - seems stressed to me!


----------



## SarahC

It does make you wonder about the mentality of people or perhaps they are just unaware.If I was you I wouldn't do to many mouse related searches on you tube,there are some dreadful things.


----------



## RockyMountainMice

Yeah, I found that out the hard way when I had rats. 
To me it does seem like the owner of the critters in the video I posted about is just unaware.


----------



## SarahC

I got that impression,I bet they thought they were giving them a nice bit of fresh air and natural environment.I came across horrid stuff inadvertantly as well,then you look and wish you hadn't.


----------



## SarahY

My small animals actually crawl all over my old beagle boy and he stays calm as you like. He loves all creatures, he always watches me clean out out the mice and is so happy when they sniff his nose. He gives baby mice little, gentle kisses. He once brought in an injured bird from the garden, carried it so gently in his mouth straight to my husband.

But if I were to post a video of these things or one of him kissing baby mice, people would be outraged in much the same way as you are


----------



## SarahC

my dogs eat anything that moves,wouldn't be a good video.I feel sorry for those big spiders that move in during the winter,they don't have much of a chance in our house.The ginger cat that haunts our garden is going to come to a sticky end one day,will be marmaladed.


----------



## skinnybaby212

well those 2 extra video's are definate animal abuse. the one in the pet shop!? i mean come on, that was just like a dog fight but with hamsters, simple as that, they were not playing in any way, they were thrown together to fight for human entertainment just like a dog fight, cant believe they are even on youtube


----------



## SarahY

I only watched the first one, I avoid things that might upset me...


----------



## skinnybaby212

it wasnt that bad to watch, its the act of what the humans were putting the animals through that is disgusting, websites like youtube should be used to find these people and then slap a ban on them from owning animals


----------



## SarahY

> its the act of what the humans were putting the animals through that is disgusting,


Yeah, that's what would upset me. I could watch them rip each other to pieces in the wild with little emotion, but the fact that a person would instigate such suffering is sickening.


----------



## skinnybaby212

it just makes me want the humans to suffer the same way, im a strong believer in that the punishment should be equal the crime, but that doesnt happen unfortunately


----------



## Rhasputin

skinnybaby212 said:


> it just makes me want the humans to suffer the same way, im a strong believer in that the punishment should be equal the crime, but that doesnt happen unfortunately


If it were that way, I can assure you there would be much less dog fighting! :lol: 
Omg, can you imagine. :?


----------



## Cait

I'm not going to look at any of the links but it is odd (read disgusting) the things people find entertaining. I agree that if the punishment for cruelty to animals was to have the exact same done to you the world might be a better place...


----------



## tinyhartmouseries

> i swear, some of you seem to live for nothing more than opportunities to criticize what other people do with their animals. the animals clearly do not live in that cage, they were obviously placed there for the video, or to "play" or whatever. they aren't fighting, and since there is a handheld video of the event, they are obviously being supervised.
> 
> i wouldn't do it with my animals, i don't understand what satisfaction the owner derives from it, but i see no reason to criticize every little thing that other people do with their animals.


While I do agree with your sentiments here, I do think that sometimes when someone promotes a practice that is NOT USUALLY safe or ethical, they do need to be informed, and their audience warned. His hamsters and rats may get along with his mice (doubtful?) but if someone else watches that video and lets Ratty play with Mousey they will likely end up with a bloodbath and a lot of tears. I have witnessed firsthand my rats pull an escaped mouse into their cage and kill it before I crossed the room. It's not pretty, and it made me very upset...

You and I, as informed individuals, would never try to cohabitate even for a minute, knowing the risks involved.. However, the way I feel is that it's on Youtube being promoted to potentially ignorant keepers and that needs to come with some sort of warning at least. If we are just bashing on here it doesn't do any good, so what I would like to see is some articulate, intellegent individual post in his comments section with legitimate reasons as to why this practice is not recommened.

EDIT- I see Stina has added a comment, way to go Stina!


----------



## sys15

tinyhartmouseries said:


> While I do agree with your sentiments here, I do think that sometimes when someone promotes a practice that is NOT USUALLY safe or ethical, they do need to be informed, and their audience warned.


that's fair. several of the youtube comments were in the vein of "don't they fight?", "is this safe?", etc. in spanish.


----------



## Autumn2005

tinyhartmouseries said:


> but if someone else watches that video and lets Ratty play with Mousey they will likely end up with a bloodbath and a lot of tears. I have witnessed firsthand my rats pull an escaped mouse into their cage and kill it before I crossed the room. It's not pretty, and it made me very upset...


I have my large rat cage next to a large mouse cage. One day while opening the mouse cage, one of the mouse babies jumped out and leapt on top of the rats' water bottle. I was in a panic trying to get the baby before the rats did (I caught her, no harm done) just for that reason. No one had to tell me, I just knew it was a bad thing.


----------



## MoonfallTheFox

Those videos were all awful and I reported them. It makes me angry and sad to see that sort of abuse and ignorant neglect.

I nearly lost my precious bird, Angel, to my rats. She escaped her cage while I was cleaning, and landed on the rat cage. My doe, Rosebud, was on her faster than I could even cross the room. She grabbed her foot, and hunched down like a dog playing tug of war trying to force Ange through the bars (she's too big to fit, and it saved her life, gave me time to get there). It was HORRIBLE. I ended up swatting Rosebud, and she still wouldn't let go, so I pried her mouth open to save Angel. Angel was terrified. She was put on antibiotics (to stave off any Pasteurella infections, which are fatal and come from mammal mouths. Not common in pet rats but not worth risking.) and ended up being fine. She had a teeny cut on her foot, and that was all in terms of physical injuries.

I can't imagine the bloodbath if I were to put other species with my rats. It wouldn't make sense, anyway, and I have no idea how people could think that's a good idea.

The people who are fighting hamsters need to be killed, that is all I have to say about it. There's no excuse for that.


----------



## Stina

> No one had to tell me, I just knew it was a bad thing.


There are some of us with that common sense......and very very many who do not have it. Having worked in pet stores for about 3 years I know just how incredibly stupid people can be when it comes to animals....and it really is incredible...lol You can NOT assume that anyone knows anything about any given animal...it is much better to assume they not, and repeat information they already know, than to assume they know something when they don't and have an animal end up injured/sick/dead because of it!


----------

