# Things from across the pond



## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I've found, in the months that I've been hanging out here, that the major differences between mousing in the US and UK are not what I thought they'd be. For instance, I find it endlessly intriguing that UK mousers often find it nearly impossible to travel what is to me a mere 2.5hrs to, for example, attend a show, or pick up mice. That not having a mouse-able vet within five miles of home might mean you simply don't have access. These are facts of life for people living in the UK, but unfathomable for someone living in the Southern US. I make driving trips of four hours, one way, on an approximately monthly basis. I don't look forward to them, but they're not difficult. To someone living in the UK, that must be terribly strange.

What things have you found particularly of note about mousing across the pond from yourselves?


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## candycorn (Oct 31, 2011)

LOL Yeah I noticed the same thing. I would cross multible states to get the right mouse while UK folks don't seem to want to travel beyond their own "range". My exotics vet is almost 20 miles away and I feel grateful I have one that close!
I remember speaking to someone from England years ago ( A fellow My Little Pony collector) who was coming to the US for vacation. And when I asked where...she said New York and LA. When I explained it took 8 hours flight or 5 days driving....she was shocked. Its easy to look at a map and see the distance, but hard to imagine it sometimes.


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

I think that's partially because the UK is so small. To us here, going on an 8-9 hour drive will pretty much get you most of the way from Scotland to the bottom of the UK, and that makes it seem like a massive distance; whereas 8-9 hours is probably just a few states to you guys.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

From working at camp with people from overseas, I have observed the same thing! We'd load in the car, and they'd all think it was weird because they only ride the bus everywhere. The fact that I am dating long distance (4 hr by car, or 8 hrs by bus, amtrack, then metra) really tickled them. And another weird thing... Getting away from mice, but a good many of them had weather phobias. I guess you guys don't get tornadoes, and bad thunderstorms? The two ppl from Scotland were the worst, and explained it as it being cloudy and drizzly 80% of the time over there, but never really extreme. The overseas ppl also said that it took some getting used to how America is "sue happy." Where if someone does something stupid, they're gonna pin it on someone else and make money. The best example of that is that lady many years back, who spilled McDonalds coffee on herself and made SOOOO much money because the top "didn't say it was hot."


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> For instance, I find it endlessly intriguing that UK mousers often find it nearly impossible to travel what is to me a mere 2.5hrs to, for example, attend a show, or pick up mice.


To be honest so do I, if I want a mouse or there is a show on I'll get in my car and drive, doesn't matter to me how far it is. But what you must remember, American mousers, is that fuel costs way more money here than in the US. The price of fuel has a huge impact on our lives, it is just so expensive. So it may well not be the distance that makes people say "it's too far", it may the fact that it costs so much in fuel. In addition, there is large group of people on this forum who don't actually drive, and public transport is poor here. Bus and train routes often won't get you where you want to go and back within one day, and I'm not talking from one end of the UK to the other, I'm talking like 100 miles!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Ditto to the travel comments.I find USA members on some forums regardless of animal species more dramatic and my perception which may be wrong is that a lot are rather fanatical leaning a bit towards the activist persuasion.I find European sites less that way.I'll just repeat that it may be a false perception,the internet is deceptive.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

SarahY took the words right out of my mouth. US fuel prices are lower as the government subsidizes the oil industry directly and indirectly through using the military to secure the sea lanesm and by having relatively low taxes. I don';t know about the public transit system over there, but carrying animals when relying on public transport is probably a big hassle.

Our mind set regarding distance is probably sifferent too, based on the relative size of out nations.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> Getting away from mice, but a good many of them had weather phobias. I guess you guys don't get tornadoes, and bad thunderstorms? The two ppl from Scotland were the worst, and explained it as it being cloudy and drizzly 80% of the time over there, but never really extreme.


We have sunshine sometimes, but it's cloudy and drizzly a lot :lol: We may hear a few rumbles of thunder a couple of times a year, but a proper good thunderstorm is very rare indeed!



> What things have you found particularly of note about mousing across the pond from yourselves?


I have got the impression from being on the internet that the US mouse fancy is very hostile and 'cliquey' with each other. Fortunately the particular members I'm thinking of don't post on here any more, but there does seem to be a lot of strong feelings and segregation. Another thing is contracts. We don't have contracts for mice and I am baffled as to how someone can have the gall say "you can breed this mouse, but I don't want ANY of it's descedants used for such-and-such". Once you've bought a mouse, it's yours, surely? And mice you've bred from it are certainly yours!


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## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

It is not just the high cost of fuel in the UK that makes long-distance driving difficult, it is also our road system. 150 miles along a motorway is no problem; try doing the same thing down twisty, narrow, country lanes. I travelled all over England when I was at work (and the Environment Agency paid for my petrol), but now I can no longer afford to do so now I am on a pension.

For the record, our preoccupation with the weather is because it is so changeable, and unpredictable. Here, in Cornwall, where the economy is heavily dependant on the tourist industry, we had hardly any days which could be classed as "summer".


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Fraction said:


> I think that's partially because the UK is so small. To us here, going on an 8-9 hour drive will pretty much get you most of the way from Scotland to the bottom of the UK, and that makes it seem like a massive distance; whereas 8-9 hours is probably just a few states to you guys.


In some places, it doesn't even get you out of the state! :lol:


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

My friend has a cousin from Wales who visited us a few years back and we took him to Disneyland for the day. It was summer time, and yet it was one of our very rare (especially in southern California summer) cold and drizzly days. He was quite disgruntled that he didn't get to enjoy our "sunny" California.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

SarahY said:


> I have got the impression from being on the internet that the US mouse fancy is very hostile and 'cliquey' with each other. Fortunately the particular members I'm thinking of don't post on here any more, but there does seem to be a lot of strong feelings and segregation. Another thing is contracts. We don't have contracts for mice and I am baffled as to how someone can have the gall say "you can breed this mouse, but I don't want ANY of it's descedants used for such-and-such". Once you've bought a mouse, it's yours, surely? And mice you've bred from it are certainly yours!


I probably know whom you are referring to. I've been a bit suprised by some of it myself and I'm from the US. I use to be heavy into saltwater reefing and people there were always talking about new ideas and discussing best practices in an open and respectful manner. From what I have seen there are only a handful of people who insist on breeding contracts. I"m baffled by the idea. So what if someone crosses your show quality mouse with a lesser mouse, one less person to compete with. 

Try traveling 8 hours and only making it down half your state. LOL I'd love to visit the Keys. but I might as well go halfway across the country as drive down there.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I've always understood the "you can't do this with my mouse" thing being two-fold. People feel responsible for their mice, and the lines built from them. That means they don't want those mice used for feed, and also that they won't want their name attached to poor-quality mice. If I said I got my chickens from a Wade Jean line, chicken people would know what that meant, and if I'd destroyed the type of those chickens, I'd be making him look bad. I'd also never be spoken to by another chicken person again. Because of the cliquey, respect-driven nature of the US mousing community, that could be a serious setback.

While I certainly understand that petrol is much more expensive in the UK, I've also noticed that many European models have vastly better mileage than American models, even from the same company. Part of it, too, is the culture of parts of the UK, where it's possible to get by without driving. I happen to live in a city with a public transport system, but it's one of two in my state. Where I grew up, nobody over eighteen (sixteen if they'd left school already) could get by without a vehicle. You have to get to work, the grocery, the bank, and nothing is walkable. Now, that city has tons of sidewalks and is working on bike lanes, but the idea of not having any method of transport is still unthinkable.


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

I live in Maryland, and that's one of the smaller states, but it still takes at least four hours to get from one side to the other xD

I noticed the cliques too.
I used to breed finches, and everyone would share birds/Information.
It helped to make better lines more available rather than holding back the other breeders.
But then again a finch is never used as food for anything else. They are way too expensive and are better to sell for income (one really good finch could cost 500$)
I understand the logic behind contracts, but how do you enforce it and why so strict? Someone could just have a similar looking mouse.

We have railways and buses that are pretty good in the city or county. But where I live now, it's 15 miles to the nearest station. 15 miles of forest. Part of the reason it's so hard for me to go to school is the lack of a car or licence.

We seriously have hurricane parties. Bust out the candles ahead of time and check the generator. A long stretch without a storm would be un-nerving. By storm I mean we loose trees from the wind and sometimes lightning. The entire county was without power for a week when that last one went through. Except that we have a few small solar panels, so we had the fridge still.

My impression has been so far that people in the UK are more open to mice as something to like.
I only know two or three people who think they are cute. And when I met a breeder in person for the first time, I was astonished I could say tricolor to a real person and be understood. Not only understood either, but she was interested in what I was saying. xD


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

I, too, have noticed the cliquey nature of US breeders. I am actually considering breeding when I am an adult, but the fact that I'd be new would be a serious issue. I'd need good mice too. If I do it, it will be strictly one or two litters a year to keep as pets. :3

Many of the people I know when I say I have mice think I'm nuts. Some think they're adorable, but still don't seem to view them as living things, and heaven forbid I take them to a vet.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

There does seem to be a lot more mouse-savvy vets over in the UK. I hear a lot of stories about vets frequently spaying, removing tumors, etc...I wish it were like that over here. Vets treat pocket pets as something they don't have to focus their learning on, so some vets will tell you right away, well, you know more than me.


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

My wonderful, wonderful vet who was a gem of a man died in late October. the attendants can do some work for the mice...but She can't do emergencies. The closest one is 50 miles away now. The birds would be doomed as well . I'm still looking for them. It's shocking really, how very many birds and mice there are but how few doctors for them.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Agreed Shadowrunner. I think that part of that could be that many times these smaller prey animals don't show any symptoms until it is too late, and the average pet owner doesn't see the more subtle things...sad to say but a lot of small animals just end up dying.


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

It makes me really sad that our veterinary schools don't teach it, because Hart is right, a lot of them die. Not just because people don't know, but because here, people see mice as disposable or insignificant. They aren't, of course, and are creatures with feelings and lives as valuable as any other.


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

Well how would people know what to look for if nobody teaches them?
I've had mice for years and I only just recently found out that fruit can make them ill. I have books on mice.
A lot of the people who keep them as pets just don't have current information lying around. Or it seems that way. The petco flier says you SHOULD give them grapes.

It's a lot to do with the mindset of people as well like you said. My mice are worth their weight in gold to me and that shocks some of the people who see me excitedly wig out when I find the occasional blue among PEWs. The vets are focused on dogs probably because there is so little demand for exotic animals. That's just sad.

I wonder if there are more knowledgeable vets in the UK?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Shadowrunner said:


> I wonder if there are more knowledgeable vets in the UK?


No,it's an expensive waste of time.


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm always thankful my vet is knowledgeable. I've never been dissapointed with how he handles my rats and mice and he is the first place I go with any problem. He treats everything except for the cats, dog, and horse. We have a specialist for the horse and a much closer office who is great with cats and dogs.

I've even taken my starling in there. All of my does except one were in there, 2 of my rats have been (the newest ones have been healthy so far) and we even took a rooster one time!

It sounds like the UK does have vets who deal more with small exotics, and I have heard of spays being more commonplace there and other fiddly surgeries happening as well. I am jealous sometimes but I think my vet knows what's best for my mice, even when I don't, and he might operate on them. He spayed a rat for me, and did a rather delicate surgery to remove cysts from my male rat's genitals. (they were growing too fast, I was afraid he would loose his ability to urinate properly.)


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I've actually got a really great small pets and exotics vet here in NW Arkansas. She's seen our box turtle, when we had one, worked with us on a badly injured rat, helped me find the right dilutions to get anbtibiotics for my mice, and done more than a few tumor-removal surgeries on the rats, not to mention all the things she's done for our foster cats and kittens. She's consulted for free on problems with our chickens, and has always given us quality information and care. Two of the male rats bred from mine ages ago were neutered in Mississippi, at half-rate, by a vet who normally works on horses. In general, if you don't have an exotics vet in the US, your best bet is actually a mixed small pet and farm animal vet. They're used to working at lots of different scales and on lots of different animals, and so will have less trouble wrapping their brain around working on a new type of animal. They won't know more than you, but they'll work with you, and they tend to have a lot of the medications you may need on hand anyway.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

The vet I take my dogs to also works with the wildlife rescue. She nearly always has some type of exotic critter in there getting stitched up. I'm not sure if she has worked with mice before, but I know she has worked with opposums and other unsual mammals.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

My vet tells me not to waste my money bringing in my mice, that i know more about mice than 90% of the vets I'd be able to find. :lol:


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

Dr.Zantop was great. My family has been loyal to him for 20 years. But he died off the coast of north Carolina in a diving accident. So far I've been taking the birds,mice and wolf to his acolyte but she isn't nearly as good. I'd be willing to drive to another state to find a similar vet xD


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