# Mysterious mousies



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

These two nice shiny agoutis came from crossing a tri and an argente; I wanted to get argente tris. I had no idea that Zazzle, the tri mom, carried sable. they only had three pinkies, one of which didn't make it. These are really nice big babies, and I had been wondering if I'd ever had a sable, and now it looks like I do.







To paraphrase gump, "Meeces are like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're going to get."


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

That's not sable. It's a just a sooty (ie poor) yellow.

Sable cannot be carried.

Also, you will not get argente tricolors (at least if you're using the splashed gene) because of C- and P-locus linkage.


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Not dark enough along the spine?

And as far as argente tris are tris are concerned, I have red eyed tris already. Why would this be any different? In breeding tris, there is no such thing as a 'splashed' gene. It's just a stage in the breeding of tris. What you call splashed, if you breed two of them together, you will eventually get tris, if not in the first generation, then in the third or fourth. The tri gene is not in the C locus, that much is pretty clear. It's a shell genetic identity (a mosaic or chimera) that is only expressed in the pigment producing cells in the skin


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

The red eyes in tricolors are related to the C-locus dilution that's also present, not to the P-locus, although the C- and P-locus are linked. In short, it's very difficult to get them to cross, but not entirely impossible.

The mouse you said is sable can't be, because sables are Ay/at B/* C/* D/* P/* U/* (in Europe) or A/at B/* C/* D/* e/e P/* U/* (in the US and Canada).

I hope that makes sense. I'm good at explaining stuff and making sense only to myself!


----------



## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Your american genetics confuddle me! LOL is your e locus a red gene?

I always think of sable as Red tans.

Willow xx

P.S Sorry for hijacking your thread moustress  such CUTE bubs =o)


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

WD, the e is the recessive gene on the E locus and is a the recessive form of yellow, and you probably don't see that over there.

Jack, I don't think that's right. I bred red-eyed fawn into the yellow tri line. the red eyes on my blue splashed siamese based tris, on the other hand, definitely come from the c-locus dilution, and much lighter red than you'd normally see on a siamese. I don't pretend to know everything about how the transgenic factor works; it's still a project in development as far as I'm concerned. I am sure pretty about my red-eyed fawn tris, though. The color of their eyes is exactly the same as the mousie I used to form one of the two lines of yellow tris, and it's distribution is exactly that of a recessive p. I think it speaks for itself.


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

> I always think of sable as Red tans.


That's what they are, with umbrous. 

(The red can come from Ay/at or from A/at e/e. Phenotypically, they are the same.)

The sooty recessive yellow (aka recessive red) become more evenly colored as they moult.


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

The proof is in the fact that I have a litter of three day old yellow tri babies 3 red eyes, 5 black eyes. If the red eyes were from the c-locus dilution I'd expect them all to have red eyes. The siamese marked tris have red eyes because siamese have red eyes; with the tri factor, if it affected the eyes I'd expect the eyes to revert to black. The transgenic factor causes an individual with a dilution to revert to darker shades, not lighter shades. So when people talk about a beige brindle, it means that the mouse would have only beige on it, but the transgenic factor causes patches to revert to darker versions of that same pigment ( chocolate, coffee, black) that causes the original color, but is diluted by on the c-locus. The tri factor does not affect eye pigments.

And red/yellow also can come from A^vy, which are what all of mine that aren't ee come from. I took years ridding my A^vy line of brindling. Not that I don't like brindling, I have a line of brindles that I keep very, very separate, cuz once it gets in there, like I said, it takes years to get it back out.


----------

