# I got 99 problems and they are all mice!



## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

I am new to owning mice and am thinking about breeding for color and longevity, not for show just enjoyment. So don't hit me too hard. Im not familiar with all the terms and correct colors yet.

My first mouse was brown with longer hair I got from petsmart. She was estimated at 3-5 months. She was very hesitant to let me hold her but after a few weeks she warmed up a little. Then after slowly adding some friends to her cage, she became aggressive. Lots of tail rattling.

The larger (dove?) female was my second mouse. I named her Minky.

I then got another --a satin (champagne?)

The three seemed to get along. Slept together and no fighting whatsoever.
So, I added a fourth mouse (mock-chocolate?) and they were still happy.

After several days the larger mouse was becoming too aggressive and that's when I re-homed her. 
In her place I got a blue mouse. Upon putting it in the cage after several days of separation, they all attacked it! Except for the small satin. I separated the cages with the blue and satin and the other two and they seemed fine....
I was however noticing a strong odor from the cage at this point even when I was cleaning it every other day.

well after looking further I realized that 3 of my 4 mice were male!

So I returned the males to the breeder keeping Minky (the female) and getting a long haired female brown mouse she had available --which actually has brown eyes. They are not black and not the dark ruby I have heard of.

I am waiting on a few of her litters to choose from for females.


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## pumpkinmouse (Sep 27, 2015)

All mice with 'black' eyes have brown eyes, the pupil will show up brown & the iris will show up blue in the right lighting.

I don't think you should be breeding mice if you're "new to owning them" & I don't think you should be breeding mice if you can't distinguish between genders, especially in adults. You can't separate a litter properly if you can't tell the different between adult genitalia, let alone 4 week old does & bucks.

I also don't think you know enough about colors to be breeding for specific colors, or longevity for that matter. Learning & understanding the dynamics of each allele, genome & phenotype can take years, even if you're breeding for "enjoyment" - it's only ethical to understand what you're doing instead of putting 2 mice together & hoping for some desirable colors or patterns. Looking at pictures isn't enough to determine what genomes a mouse is carrying either, even if the coat looks the same.


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## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

I actually got them from a breeder who gave me the wrong genders. Breeding is only a consideration that's why I'm on this site and others to learn more about the dynamics.

I was also under the impression this forum was for all levels of fancy mice owners and potential breeders.

As a beginner, advice is appreciated, however suggestions that I am irresponsible is not. 
Thanks


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

fancyfeet said:


> I was also under the impression this forum was for all levels of fancy mice owners and potential breeders.


This is true.Opinions on ethics tend to be personal and apart from the broader aspect of welfare that any living creature should receive Fancy Mice Breeders has no opinion on the breeding ethics of any one person.Views expressed are simply those of the individual and do not represent the forum .Pet,show and feeder breeders are all welcome.


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## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

In addition pumpkinmouse, as you recently posted that you are "not so experienced at gendering", the differentiation at young ages must be more difficult than you are suggesting.

This site is an educational tool for myself as well as others, so as far as ethics go if "putting two mice together" makes you uncomfortable I'm not sure how culling can sit well with you as that is a necessary part of breeding as well.

As stated by the moderator all are welcome so tact would be appreciated.


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## pumpkinmouse (Sep 27, 2015)

When I got Pumpkin she was the first mouse I'd ever had to gender. After that it took me maybe 2 days to nail gendering mice of all ages. Pumpkin was never put in a cage with mice that I didn't confirm the gender of myself. 
I euthanize my own mice, so culling isn't an issue. I'm not currently breeding mice, & won't breed mice until I have a strong command of every aspect of what it takes to breed them properly. Like you've expressed, I'm here to learn as well. 
Putting two mice together that you have no pedigrees or understanding of is careless. That is where avoidable illnesses & behavioral problems come from.

If my comment suggested irresponsibility on your part in any way, shape or form then I must be illiterate.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

pumpkinmouse said:


> Putting two mice together that you have no pedigrees or understanding of is careless. That is where avoidable illnesses & behavioral problems come from.


I would have thought a lot of people have to start from this very position. Yes getting from a responsible breeder might be the ideal thing in an ideal world but a lot of people do not have the ability to do that. My three are from pet stores, I know their phenotype but that is it. They may turn out to have health issues and then I will have to face that if it comes to it.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with putting together pet shop mice. It is an excellent way to learn what you have, and to get used to the mechanics of breeding when you don't have access to better mice. Some of the longest-lived mice I've had were third-generation petshop crosses. One went to a pet home and got loose, then survived loose in their home for three months before being caught and brought back to me. She had a fantastic life.

Also, most quality breeders don't use pedigrees, even in North America where we tend to be a little more records-happy than some folks abroad. So...try to be more polite, yeah? We're all still learning. That's life.


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## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

I appreciate the positive responses.  I am new to this and trying to learn and research before I bred any mice. However in the unfortunate event that my little mouse is pregnant I'm doing everything possible to keep her healthy and comfortable.

Sexing is something that takes time to recognize which is why I had asked the breeder to help me but even she missed them..as males can retract testis and she only really breeds for feeders so doesn't have a need to separate the babies.

Thank you again for you encouragement. I am really excited about mice and possibly breeding in the future for yes, COLOR AND LONGEVITY. which i don't find anything wrong with, as that is the intention of most breeders for show or not.


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## lovemykids3 (Apr 20, 2016)

I too am very new to this, and in fact I am a feeder breeder, but I tend to hold onto the desired colors I like. As well I'm trying to get my mice a bit bigger since my ball python should be eating small rats... which I can't seem to stomach : / My mice so far, 2 litters have all produced PEW, PEW satin, blue or silver? agouti along with satin. So when I come across a color I enjoy I keep em. I'd like to delve more into showing but I'm located in the mountains in AZ and have no access to such : / so I'm just doing what I can and have a lil hobby going beside breeding for feeders. I'd love to learn all I can tho so I can produce some nice colors. Which may be hard since all my mice have come from the same store : / oh well


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