# Confused by Agouti!



## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

OK, this may be a stupid question but I was wondering if there is such a thing as a Cinnamon mouse with pink eyes?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

A/* p/p is an argente who is also champagne (another way to say this is a cinnamon who is also pink-eyed). They usually manifest as a light argente. The difference between this variety and "regular" argente doesn't seem very great and there is overlap so you may not necessarily know which you're dealing with. A lot of the argentes who come from fawn are actually pink-eyed cinnamons because red (from which fawn is derived) is so often chocolate or cinnamon "unerneath."

I don't know if they're standardized with the NMC, but they're not with the ECMA.

Interestingly, because b/b lightens not only the fur but also the eyes--just a smidgen--it is also possible to have a cinnamon mouse (A/* b/b) whose eyes are brown, not black. I've had a few of these over the years. Cameras seem to make them look red, but in life they're clearly not red, and clearly not black--they're brown!


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Jack x
P.S. missed you


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Hehe..you're very welcome! 

I have some pictures of mice who were A/a b/b p/p, but they were also umbrous so it kind of throws their color off a bit. If I can find them I'll post them!


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks, It's just that my cinamon broken doe has had her litter. The buck was also cinamon broken, and I have a couple of pink eyed babies. Just wasn't sure what was going on


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I had some pink eyed cinnamons/champagne agouti/chocolate argente (A* bb pp) and they were a beautiful bright gold. They have a champagne undercoat, not dove, instead of blue tipped with gold as with normal argente, each hair is champagne tipped with gold.

They were extremely pretty 

Sarah xxx


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Oooooooh sounds nice, can't wait and see what they turn out like!!


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

By the way has anyone got any pics for comparison?
And why are they not a recognised variety? :?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

In all the pictures I've found, they don't look all that different from regular argente. 

And actually, now that I think about it--I guess that's probably why they're not standardized/recognized!


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

LOL!!
Right, I thought that might be the reason :lol: 
So could they be passed off as argente? Or are they never as good as a real one?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Well they could be just as good I think, but I don't know.

This mouse is WNT Langlia, a cinnamon argente (A/* b/b p/p) bred by Jenny and owned by Kadee (TREK) as a pet. As you can see, she is also umbrous (gray stripe down her back), which is a huge fault, so Kadee has her as a pet only.



















By comparison, here is a regular argente I bred:










There's really not _that_ much difference in color...


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

What is umbrous?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Umbrous is a a dominant allele which causes a dark spine. You usually see it on sable. It also shows up on agouti-based varieties (agouti, argente, cinnamon) where it is a fault. It doesn't show up on most self varieties, and even on agouti, argente, and cinnamon it's dominance is modified by homozygosity of the A-locus (which is to say that a mouse who is A/A U/* or a/a U/* won't have a stripe or won't have as dark a stripe as one who is A/a U/*), so you don't always see it. Mice in the same litter can be umbrous and only those who are heterozygous on the A locus (A/a U/*) will show umbrous. Once it's present it's very hard to get rid of!


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Ok thanks.....erm.....I think I get it


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

You're very welcome!


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