# Young red doe



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

This little girl is about three and half months old and is just about the deepest red I've seen in my mousery. She kept climbing arond to the bottom of the hand and over...had a heck of a time getting a photo!


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

Very nice. I love that she has black eyes. All of mine are pink eyed and a shade more golden. What plans do you have for her?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

She hopefully will be a part of my effort to restore my red/fawn/yellow/cream tricolor and splashed line. This is the darkest deepest red I'd want to see on them. It would create a nice contrast, especially in satin. I had a very unique tricolor buck, Oddball, who had a patch this color on one side of his face, the side with the black eye. The other side was cream with a nice 
bright red eye.

Oddball



I expect eventually to see something like that that again. I have odd eyed meeces aplenty, but not with the red eye so nice and bright.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Oddball really is such a pretty mouse. I'm trying to get my hands on a not-terrible quality black-eyed buck who'll actually breed (Carrot put on a lot of weight since Jicama went to live in FL), to see how much darker that fawn gets when it's not pp.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks, Lagaie

I'm thinking that the key to getting the nice bright red eye is to breed from fawn, with the reversion happening in the eye from the recessive p...but I'm not sure.


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

moustress said:


> This little girl is about three and half months old and is just about the deepest red I've seen in my mousery.


Is this mouse a recessive red or what is the genetic background?

Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

He is very hansom. I wasn't aware that you can have red/yellow tricolors. Please tell me more about how you managed to get him.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Roland said:


> moustress said:
> 
> 
> > This little girl is about three and half months old and is just about the deepest red I've seen in my mousery.
> ...


The mouse is an RY. I'm so confused about people over here calling RYs reds. :| 
I keep thinking when I see someone say 'red mouse' . . . WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM!? :lol:


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I thought, technically, if the mousie is red, yellow with black eyes, the correct name is red thought there is the newly standardized orange, which comes in both red and black eyed. Yeah, it's recessive all right.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Whenever I see 'red' I think dominant red. :lol:


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Recessive-yellow is just as much genetically "red" as lethal yellow, with the added bonus of being, well, non-lethal. It's not got as many generations of strong show breeding behind it, so if you show, I can understand the preference to dominant red. I've honestly pushed dominant red as far out of my mind as I had the mosaic brindles. While I do not have anything against others breeding lethal genes, it's not for me. For me, red is recessive or dominant yellow with black eyes, and fawn is the same varieties with pink eyes. This seems to be standard.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

That other red is usually much more rusty/brown than I like. The lightest I've seen of those type are about the same shade as this one.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

I have to agree. I like the golden red much more than the rusty red.


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

Rhasputin said:


> Whenever I see 'red' I think dominant red. :lol:


You should think twice :lol:

These are recessive reds with different amounts of pheomelanin from my stud:



















Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Yes Roland I know! 
I just used that photo a few days ago to show someone how rich a RY can be!

But here in the US, we don't really have dark rich RYs, so i still think dom red when I hear red. Just a word association!


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I have two does as well-One like number one and one like number four, recessive yellow....is there a chance of using them and their offspring to maybe get to the color of two and three?


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

Rhasputin said:


> Yes Roland I know!
> But here in the US, we don't really have dark rich RYs, so i still think dom red when I hear red. Just a word association!


Hi Rhasputin,

in the meantime there are some good dominant reds in the US (Jack got some from me some time ago) and from breeding Ay/A x Ay/A there will be 25% Golden Agouti always.

















I used the GA (as you, Rhasputin, know too, but many others probably will not) to bring more red pheomelanins into the Recessive Reds. I think you US guys could go the same way.

Best regards, Roland

Edit: Ay/A x Ay/A will not give 25% Golden Agoutis, because the 25% Ay/Ay die in utero, so from the resulting babies 1/3 will be GA


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

tinyhartmouseries said:


> I have two does as well-One like number one and one like number four, recessive yellow....is there a chance of using them and their offspring to maybe get to the color of two and three?


Hi, 
selection, breeding the best to the best, selection and breeding the best to the best again and again for many generations is the secret, but will take a lot of time. 
In addition see the former message about breeding recessive red over Golden Agoutis, which will give results much earlier.

Good luck, Roland


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

What would you consider this guy? I ruffled the fur in the middle to give a better look. He came from the same store that has a lot of ry.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Personally I don't like use the term "red" and "yellow" as terms to describe the genes.... I think dominant or recessive aeumalanistic (lacking eumelanin in the coat) would be much better terms for describing the animals' genetics. Red and yellow in my opinion are much better used purely as descriptors.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Stina said:


> Personally I don't like use the term "red" and "yellow" as terms to describe the genes.... I think dominant or recessive aeumalanistic (lacking eumelanin in the coat) would be much better terms for describing the animals' genetics. Red and yellow in my opinion are much better used purely as descriptors.


I have no problem with red and yellow as long as they have dominant, recessive, or lethal added to them. Otherwise you don't know what someone is talking about. :lol:


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I guess I can understand that, though, since you don't breed them, you sort of don't have any need to know. But more info is generally better than less most of the time unless it becomes excessively detailed and overly abstruse and technical.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

> I guess I can understand that, though, since you don't breed them, you sort of don't have any need to know


huh?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Since Rhasputin won't be breeding from my mousies, is what I meant. At least, I don't think she has access to any of the meeces I sent out on the truck...but there were no red, fawn or yellow from me in that collection.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

jadeguppy said:


> What would you consider this guy? I ruffled the fur in the middle to give a better look. He came from the same store that has a lot of ry.


Could anyone give JadeGuppy an opinion on the type of agouti she's looking at?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Satin pied agouti.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

In the US from a petstore, its just an agouti (and satin and pied).

The golden agoutis roland referred are agoutis from deep, rich Ay lines that have the genetics for the same deep reds, but without having the harmful Ay gene. Breeding such golden agoutis to e/e lines will transfer those modifiers that redden the coat to the line and help redden e/e mice much more quickly than selective breeding from pale colored animals.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I love the way the yellow/red turns to gold in satin agouti.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

So you can't get a golden agouti from an e/e line? How much more golden will it look than the one I posted?


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

You could, but it would have to be from a line with deep rich reds...which don't exist in the US (Roland is the only one in the world I'm aware of that has really deep rich e/e mice......though I am working on it myself with Ay reds from jack)


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