# Irony or mystery?



## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

5/6 weeks ago i bought 3 mice from 2 different pet shops that i have links with- Chocolate broken, Argentine Broken and BEW.
They all had lovely personalities and were so tame compared to any other mouse i've sseen in those pet shops. 
Right, so, i keep all my mice (except from the sick ones) in my shed, where i close the windows and door in winter to top drafts etc etc. 2 days evenings ago, when i checked, fed and watered everyone, i found my Choc broken and BEW females dead, with the Argentine Broken still alive and well, but looking a little bit round. Now, i carefully check the amount of food i give to my mice, and don't go over the amount i give them unless i'm not feeding them the next evening.

So, after the scene setting, i have a quest for you to solve. Is she pregnant or is she chubby? All the weight she's carrying is in her middle, but she hasnt been introduced to any bucks yet. I've been asking people about wild/domestic hybrid mice, and i tell you now i havent been mixing them. Could it be possible that a wild buck snuck into the cage? What could've killed my 2 does? the BEW had a bloodey ear, but neither of them had battle wounds or was skinny etc.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

The photo of the banded is taken from an angle that doesn't show pregnancy or lack of very well. Is it possible to get one from above when she's not stretched out? It is very possible that a wild buck got into your cage if it isn't secure. However a wild buck wouldn't kill does, he'd mate with them. It's impossible for us to tell what killed the other does without seeing it for ourselves with all the variables and no clues.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

she's a banded with head splash and so was the other 'broken', but unless i'm selling i just say broken.
Are there any diseases that can kill mice fairly quickly? The lid was fairly secure with another heavy cage ontop to hold the lid down further.
Are there also any diseases that can cause bloating?
If she is pregnant then i have a bit of a problem if he could fit through the mesh O_O most of my cages have that mesh lid..

hope pics are ok, will take more if needed


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Unfortunately with mice, most of their illnesses progress rapidly. You say that you'd had the mice 5-6 weeks and this all happened a few days ago. That means that if the banded is pregnant she did not arrive from the pet shop that way, which means either one of your 'does' was a buck or a wild buck got in. I can see a bit of a bulge on the photos but 7-10 days will of course let you know for sure! It might be worth having a good look at the cage you're using in case it is the culprit.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

looks healthy and pregnant to me.I have had bloated mice die but they are huge,looking like they have swallowed a ping pong ball.After death I have cut them open(sorry to be gruesome)and the intestines have been like balloons filled to bursting with air.Cause unknown,they looked unwell though and it was random occurences nothing contagious.I understand that rodents can't release gas by burping so assume some gastro problem caused a build up of gas that killed them.Just assumptions on my part though.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Is banded a recessive gene? Don't recessive marked meeces have a high risk for megacolon? Would megacolon be visible as an expanded belly? I think so, but I can't say where I read that.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

http://www.oxfordjournals.org/jnls/list ... /57-29.pdf

interestingly it says the mouse in question has a head spot,so perhaps that's it moustress.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks, Sarah. My mind is like a rusty steel trap; it catches stuff real good but doesn't let it go so well on recall. Another question, since you seem to know more than I do: Does megacolon cause sudden acute symptoms or does it develop over a longer period of time?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

The answer to your question is yes. 

It depends on the mouse in question and the amount of white spotting. Usually you notice it when babies are weaned, but not always. It also happens in people.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

i just wrote a mega long message, then my laptop decided to really annoy me and crash haha
right, here we go

I looked back on dates, and realised that i was away in boston when the wild buck could've gotten in. My mums a bit slack on the security of cages, dispite the fact that because of it, she managed to let all my rats escape in my shed in summer (oh my goodness it was quite funny)

Yes the does were does, i know ssome thick people get mixed up, but it's very easy to tell (i also double checked before i bought them) :lol:

Also, has anyone of you had experience with banded and head spotting? i've only found one mouse that is just banded (mother of my new litter), and all the rest have been banded with head spot. Even The banded girl has produced babies that are banded+headspot (was a bit of a dissapointment..)

I half wish she is pregnant, because i get to see for my own eyes what a little hybrid mouse looks like. But, after asking a few people, i really wish she isnt, because theres not a lot i can do with the babies and people will think i made it happen after being very curious about wild mice crosses (college people will be very skeptical hahaha)
Mice will be mice.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Half wild mousies are a genuine pain to handle- that's if you can get your hands on them at all. The ones I've ended up with flew away at about the age of four weeks- I swear they can levitate or something and I think they can move at the speed of light. They will never make good pets, as they have the high response to noise and movement and go ballistic for no reason whatsoever.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

that's why i'm hoping she isn't pregnant haha
would it help to hand raise them at 2 weeks?
tutors at college loved my last lot of hand rears. And i know fancys are different, but those lot chattered to me and insisted in cleaning me 

plus, what can i do with the babies appart from culling?


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Banded is a dominant gene, though there is also a belted gene. Headspots are a common fault on bandeds. As for megacolon, as far as I was aware it is known to be common in variegateds but not other markings when it comes to UK show mice. All the bandeds I bred were healthy and pretty robust, very people-friendly and dominant with other mice.

Hand rearing if you don't have to is a bad idea as many of the babies may well die. Hand rearing is no substitute for their mother, even if you do everything perfectly. When the babies are born you should be able to guess fairly quickly whether a wild buck was the culprit, since all will be agouti (unfortunately they may have been anyway since the doe is argente) and some will have bands. They will also probably be smaller than a normal litter physically.


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