# 14 days old and still no fluff



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

One of my litters that are now 14 days old still haven't fluffed up and I'm rather confused. I didn't back to back breed her and I was careful spacing out her first litter and this one so that the pinkies could develop properly. They have no pigmentation either so they are just pink with closed eyes and their ears unfolded. It's the first time I have ever came across this and I'm not actually 100 % sure what to do. All of the other litters my mice have had have grown fur before now the parents were of no relation at all as I got them both from different areas so inbreeding isn't a possibility.


----------



## love2read (Aug 30, 2011)

Can you post pics of the babies and their parents?

Sounds like they might be fuzzies.

Do they have any fur at all?


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

No fur at all just pink and my camera isn't working at the moment but I can post pictures of their parents that I already have


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

Parents and a youngster at 14 days from the same pairing only she is 2 months old now


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

That baby has fur, but still looks much to small/young for it's age. They could be premature...

I would put this in the health section, by the way.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

That baby was from her first litter, my camera is broken and couldn't get one of the odd babies. I put it here because it is a current litter issue


----------



## love2read (Aug 30, 2011)

Can you get a pic of one of the odd babies? We can't help if we can't see what you're dealing with.


----------



## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

Is it just my old eyes and carppy monitor but does the pup from the initial litter seem a bit thin furred can clearly see flesh in areas of the head, shoulders and rump area.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

The one from the first litter that I pictures actually had a white face once it was 16 days old, I believe the doe was over grooming them! I did catch her plucking fur at one point! She's a little bit daft! She may be over grooming this litter too but I'm really not sure although they have started to fluff up today which has really confused me!



TwitchingWhiskers said:


> That baby has fur, but still looks much to small/young for it's age. They could be premature...
> 
> I would put this in the health section, by the way.


I would like to apologise it looked like I was being rude to you in the reply I gave you and I'm sorry I didn't mean it that way, I meant I had put this in current litters because I thought it would come under this category. I also wouldn't even know how to move it to health issues.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

We have the slightest amount of fluff now! Iv attached a picture because my ipad camera works and I completely forgot about it haha! Here they are


----------



## Runaway Mousery (Jul 5, 2012)

Well, they have some fur, but that is an awful lot of youngsters if they are being raised by one doe...?


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

I separated them out into sexes so I could see the colours! I believe they may all be argente lol! Taking in mind there are 2 females feeding the one litter because one female had all stillborn and the sisters have always been kept together


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

They look really skinny, and are probably premature. I would defiantly cull that litter down (I would have much earlier).

*edit* Missed the part about the two does feeding. 6 each is usually okay, but considering how skinny they are I would still cull.


----------



## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Are both does actually feeding? I'm pretty baffled.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

Yeah they are both feeding the youngsters, the one that doesn't have any had still born the same day as these youngsters were born


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

I don't really want to cull down the litter iv had bigger litters than this between 2 does and they managed fine, I know it's a common practice and I have done it myself in the past but I decided this time that I would let nature take its own course and see what the outcome is! Just a tester to see what actually happens but I do believe that they are premature by a couple of days or so! Iv had larger kits from my other females that aren't related but we will see what happens! Both does are feeding and both seem to be coping so I'm not really that worried at this moment in time, it may be that some of the kits aren't getting enough from the does but I can try feeding a couple myself and see if that fattens them up if not then I will cull


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

From what I've heard, fostering to a humane should be a last resort. Honestly, I would cull ASAP in this situation; I realize big litters have worked in the past, but it is obviously not working this time.


----------



## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

It is (can be) ok to let nature take its course, sure, but in this case, humans have bred mice to have larger litters, so humans have to be Mother Nature to make sure that babies survive and thrive as they would in nature. In your litter, instead of getting a few weak ones who pass, you will likely end up with a whole litter of weakish, malnourished ones...I would definitely cull, just so that you have the chance of having at least a few healthy ones.


----------



## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

If you are reluctant to cull for one reason or another, I would suggest you increase protein and essential vitamins and trace minerals to the diet of both the feeding does asap. This can be achieved with the addition of multivitamins added to the drinking water or even new born baby milk offered in stead of water for 12 hours.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

Iv got baby milk in a separate bottle once a day for 12 hours and iv also got kitten food in too. The handiest thing is I have a baby on newborn milk and a kitten haha! Yeah I started that yesterday though because I realised there wasn't enough protein! All of my mice get fed on mix and I mix in kitten or puppy food to give them extra protein when they are pregnant or suckling! I just hadn't measured it out right unfortunately I fear the small Kira may have been my fault as a result of this! I'm reluctant to cull because when the litter first arrived and I took all of the smallest skinny ones out and this cut them down from 20 to 12 which I thought was manageable enough for the 2 does


----------



## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Logically, 12 should be enough for two does, but something's definitely not right. The thing about "letting nature take its course and seeing what happens" is we know the outcome is typically not good. Like tinyhart said, you end up with malnourished mice who likely won't live particularly full healthy lives. That said, I have no idea about why you breed so maybe it's okay to have those? They wouldn't fall into the category of ideal pets for other people if they're sickly and short lived.

Hopefully they'll catch up but I'm glad to read you're prepared to cull - a sad reality of mouse breeding. That said, the health benefit is higher the earlier it happens (for those who live).


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

Yeah! I was just waiting to see if the females caught up with the males to be honest I might end up just having to cut the litter down again as I had a good look over each fuzzy today and they aren't looking as good as I had hoped.


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm glad you are willing to cull after all. If they were my mice I would cull the entire litter; as Seafolly sated, they won't be good pets and certainly not a good choice to breed from. Although, if you think they have a chance, I suppose one can only try.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

I ended up taking all small skinny ones out and only leaving 4 males which are pretty chunky it's a shame really but I didn't want to have unhealthy skinny mice! It's the last time I am using both male and female too!


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm sorry about your setback.  It's hard when things don't go as planned, but with good comes bad. Hopefully you will have some nice argente with future litters.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

I hope so, I do have an argente buck that's quite a big boy lol so I'm hoping if I pair him with another doe I might have a better out come but at least the kids will have 4 mice to play with when they are bigger and more able to be handled. My nephew was dying to have a mouse so he can have one of these ones once they are bigger


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

I wouldn't give someone a weaker mouse as a pet, it would be a disappointment if the mouse didn't make it and the pet owner felt helpless. Of coarse, for the sake of the mouse, as well. They could also have weaker immune systems and catch mycoplasma and suchlike infections easier than a strong, healthy mouse.

If you were closer, I would give you my argentes and soon to come agoutis. My only reason to keep them around is because they carry RY, and are being used as a part of my RY line.


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

Iv got a good strong line of banded agouti going. I have 6 argente adults but there are only 2 of them that I believe are good quality to breed, the pied argente were weaker ones but I didn't really find this out until recently! They are having a great deal of health problems and I'm trying to get them as healthy as possible! They were pet shop mice though. I would keep the mice at my house for the kids to play with so they probably wouldn't notice if they died!


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Too bad about you're argente pieds, maybe you could find some breeders with good stock?


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)

Yeah I'm currently working on getting a few from England, just the courier I need to sort out so hopefully very soon I will have some nice pied argente


----------



## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Sizzlea89 said:


> Yeah I'm currently working on getting a few from England, just the courier I need to sort out so hopefully very soon I will have some nice pied argente


Great!


----------



## Sizzlea89 (Jan 19, 2013)




----------

