# Wanting to learn genetics



## zigable (Jul 26, 2010)

Hey all, Genetics is something that has always facinated me, and some of you may know those virtual SIM games yeah? Well I get dead into the genetics of breeding on those and have a pretty firm grasp of how genetics carry onto ofspring, however the acctual genetic codes and what they effect in mice is totally new to me, so I was just going to ask for any codes and deffinitions, also the order the genes go in helps, I'm a logical person and like gene pairs to be in a set order, if one exists.

Also what would be the code four your standard coated mouse?

So for example, I have a broken black tan. Bred from broken black parents so she would be: aa B* C* D* P* ss at yes?
Be patient if this is completely wrong, I'm a newb to this, and honestly I am blonde.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

A standard coated mouse would have no code because it is the default. Non-standard varieties, such as satin, have codes. In the case of satin, it is sa/sa. In the case of Rex, it is Re/*, and so forth.

A broken black tan would be a/at s/s (you made a mistake by saying a/a). You can customarily leave off the B/*, C/*, etc. if they're showing the "default" allele and you don't know if they carry anything else, although you _can_ put it there if it makes it clearer to you (to me, it just makes it more complicated than it needs to be).

Mice have more known coat- and color-affecting alleles than any other animal. There are hundreds or thousands of combinations. The following loci are all at play in pet mice, depending on which part of the world you live in:

A, B, Bt, C, Ca, D, E, Fr, Fz, Go, Hr, Lh, Mobr, Nu, P, Re, Rst, S, Sa, Si, Spl, U, V, W and others (such as roan, roan-like, merle, and ruby-eyed).

Now if you "dissect" all of those loci starting with A, on the A-locus we have Ay, Avy, Ahvy, Aw, A, at, a, and ae (in descending order of dominance), plus some rarer ones such as am which, for the sake of convenience you might not include. Each one has its own story and method of operation with the others.

Throw in the B-locus (B, bc, b) and the C-locus, wherein 4 out of 5 alleles we have in the pet trade are co-dominant (ce, ch, cch, ci)*, and you see how complicated things begin to get.

In hamsters or parakeets or even horses it would be much easier to list all the possible alleles and their type of inheritance, but in mice it's more complicated not because the genes themselves necessarily work differently (although we do have a couple of instances of dominance modification and other tricky things), but because of the sheer volume of combinations possible. For example, when only the A- and U-loci are at play, nearly every combination (A/A U/U, A/a U/U, A/a U/u, etc) has a unique phenotype. This might seem like an out-of-the-way example because Umbrous (U-locus) is not very common, but a similar thing goes on with the C-locus. I am convinced that if somebody wanted to, you could write an entire book on all the combinations possible the C-locus! 

*This isn't including c, which when heterozygous with one of the above mentioned C-alleles, can also do some interesting things.


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## zigable (Jul 26, 2010)

Wow. I feel this is one of those things where familurarity and practice is really the only way to understand these things. Although its all so amazing how so many of you here can do this, then i guess you've had far more experience than me. I'm only 16 and only been keeping mice a few months haha. 
Thanks for all that though Jack, I understand a lot of what your saying. I didn't realise there were quite so many possibilities with mice. I only have pet types and i live in England if that limits the possibilities any, as i know we don't have tri colors here or the extreme black (to my knowlage anyway)


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

The younger you are, the more malleable the mind is. I started learning genetics with a friend of the family who bred mice when I was around 15 (it's been over 10 years now), and I think that it affected the amount of knowledge I picked up and how fast I picked it up, as compared to if I started learning at 25. It's the same with language: the younger you start learning a new language, the easier it is to understand in the long-term. It doesn't mean older people can't learn (far from it!), just that it takes longer and it's easier for young people.

In England there are no few or no Splashed, Avy, Ahvy, recessive yellow (e/e) and maybe a couple others.

My best advice is to read the Finnmouse site over and over. The genetics portion is the best part. Start here: http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/genetics/index.html

Even Finnmouse doesn't cover everything, but it does a very good job at laying down all the basics.


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## zigable (Jul 26, 2010)

Very interesting, for a while I thought one of my does was a recessive yellow but I must be mistaken, must find out what she is when i get the camera cable haha. 
Thanks very much for the link, i'll bookmark it and have a good comb through in the morning.


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## salemouse (Oct 9, 2010)

im sixteen as well and only starting out.  I have a huge difficulty with genetics as well...for me its like looking at a puzzle that is incredibly complicated and nearly impossible. But, I guess all we can do is perservere!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Finnmouse has it all broken down in charts, along with a section of all the varieties, colors, markings, and what genes create those things. Some of the color names are different, but it pretty much lays it all out. It may seem as simple as ABC for folks who have been doing this awhile. It's not terribly complicated, but it can be more complicated than just ABC. there's also a nice section on PetRodents, which is my 'home' forum.

http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/index.html

http://www.petrodents.com/index.php


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## salemouse (Oct 9, 2010)

i made an account on petrodents.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Great! The only thing about that site that you need to know is that they don't allow talk about feeder breeding. It very pet oriented, and has been largely inactive for several years. The mod, mugwumpr, is an awesome administrator and has been faithfully doing maintainance. Their chat room is the best set-up I've seen. so maybe I'll catchya over there sometime!

(Dont' get me wrong, I LOVE this forum to pieces.)


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## zigable (Jul 26, 2010)

Thanks moustress. Will join that site  Had a read through some of that site you and Jack gave me, its very interesting and informative. Will certainly help


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Glad you found both sites useful!


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