# Whats happening to my chocolate fox?



## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

This is the 1st time i have ever breed silver fox mice it was quiet a shock when the appeared the mum is a sheepy and she does carry silver fox but never expected actual silver fox babies there were 3 does and 1 buck 3 chocs and 1 black the best marked one was the buck he is perfectly marked all does have slight white tips on the end of there tails.
Yesterday i checked my babies they are nearly 5 weeks now and looked a my special little choc fox buck to find the edges of the white look like they are turning tan Why?
Why would he start off looking 100 percent fox and is now starting to go tan?
will he completely go tan or will the tan disapear?
I was going to use him for showing but with the tan he is no good.

Does any one have any ideas on this?

rachel

Also am interested in buying some more foxes if any one has any for sale.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

By silver fox do you mean pink-eyed chinchillated blue tan (a/a d/d cch/cch p/p)? I ask because that's exceptionally hard to get due to the linkage of C- and P- loci.

When the edges of a "fox" mouse's belly turn tan it's often because that mouse is a tan--a very poor tan.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Silver fox is the full and correct name for a fox mouse, whether it's black, blue, chocolate or whatever  Presumably it's called a 'silver' fox because of the white ticking on the flanks? I'm just guessing at that, though!

I don't have any silver fox breeding experience myself, but Finnmouse says that the yellowing at the demarcation line is a common fault which can be eliminated by selective breeding:

http://hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/black_fox.html

Sarah xxx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

[quoteSilver fox is the full and correct name for a fox mouse, whether it's black, blue, chocolate or whatever  Presumably it's called a 'silver' fox because of the white ticking on the flanks? I'm just guessing at that, though!][/quote]

They are named after the silver fox rabbit.Most mouse varieties are named after exhibition rabbits.

As foxes are tans that have had chinchilla introduced which bleaches the tan white,you need top quality tans to get top quality foxes.The deeper the tan used the whiter the fox belly will be.You are very unlikely to get exhibition quality foxes from pet or hobby stock.You could make your own by getting some good tans and chins or get some ready made.Seawatch whose link you will find in the website section used to have them,not sure about now.Or I can think of one person who has black and choc foxes who is likely to be at Enfield on March 6th.You would have to pay about £5 each mouse though.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I have a chinchilla descended from Seawatch and I like him a lot.


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks for the help everyone
he has got pure show fox in him a pure fox was bred to a sheepy further down the line and has passed through generations.
I think he is just a badly marked fox then as his belly is defenatly white but has very pale tan round the edges. He has black eyes and is chocolate.
That is so interesting i never knew that it a really good tan was bred to a chinchilla you could get fox i am new to breeding and what coloures make what but it is all just so interesting.
thanks for all the info evryone you have been so helpful, i have some good tans so just need a chinchilla male if any one has any?

thanks rachel


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

if you put a chin to a tan you will get agouti tans born.You breed these together when old enough to produce foxes.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Be careful with chinchilla X tan for agouti foxes, because you may end up with Aw/* agouti "tans," that do not have the tan gene at all and will not be able to create foxes of any sort because their white belly color comes from the Aw allele, not the at allele.

One way to prevent this from happening is to find a line of chinchillas that is NOT true breeding, that way you know the belly-whitener at play is at (semidominant, cannot be homozygous in chinchillas) and not Aw (dominant, is often homozygous in chinchillas). Just by looking at Aw/Aw and A/at chinchillas, you can't tell the difference so it's important to know which you're using.


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

oh i see a little complicated i think as i am quiet new to this i would be better off geting an actual silver fox though i am interester in and chinchilla any way if any one has any for sale buck or does.

thanks again for all your help
rachel


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

Hello here is a picture of my chocolate fox a few weeks ago at 3 weeks old.
he defenatly looks like a fox doesnt he?
Will post a pic of him now at 5 weeks old a little later once i take one.


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

here is a pic of him now at 5 weeks even his sisters have gone like him now.










As you can see the bellys a little tan looking not as white looking as i would like .


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## Toast (Nov 11, 2009)

Huh, well, that's dissapointing. Hopefully your next litter, if you decide to breed them again, will have white bellies. I hope my fox doesn't go tan.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

It's a very poor tan (obvious in both pics). Sorry.


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

Thats very disapointing he did used to have a white belly like my sheepy choc fox then it discoloured.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

don't be disappointed,it's all part of the challenge.


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes thats true i can work on improving them


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

You can't work on fox if you don't have the chinchilla gene (cch/cch) to turn the tan into fox.


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes sorry thats what i mean i need to find either a fox or a chinchilla and breed it to mine.


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

My so called chocolate fox is now a 100 percent tan every week he is getting darker and darker.


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