# Ugh temperature...



## MiceMad (Sep 5, 2016)

So our mice seem to be incredibly susceptible to the cold, and we have found them suffering what we believe to have been hypothermia. This has been both adults and the younger mice. This has happened three times in total, if I count the very slight way it happened tonight. It's been various mice, and the first time we thought it was because we'd had the window open (maybe it caused a sudden temperature change? Certainly wasn't a draft, but we thought maybe the temperature had dropped)...but it just seems to happen with the cooler weather.

We took the last mice affected (two adult females and two 7 week old babies) to the vet, and nothing was wrong with them - bright, alert, active, a good weight, no wheezing, sneezing etc.

When we open the cage and it has happened (obviously it's not a common thing) the mice are cold to the touch, extremely sluggish, barely moving, limp when picked up etc. We get them bundled in a hat, tuck them under our clothes, and within 30 minutes they are back to normal. This isn't all our mice, some it's never happened to and a few it's happened to twice. Also when it happened to our young male mice once it was when they were sleeping out in the open, and all the nesting material they'd just scattered about the cage - I actually had to build them a nest, and they've been fine since!

I've read a lot since that a mouse's ideal temperature is actually way warmer than I expected (most places quoted 28+ C, some even saying the ideal was 30-32*C), and it's getting towards winter here. But we've given everyone so much bedding, wrapped a duvet around the rack their cages are on, and have even bought heat mats so that when they arrive we can have them on a few hours a day. There are zero drafts where the cages are (there's not even a door or window near them) and they're not in barred cages so I thought the temperature would be held better. We keep our house on the cold side I guess but not uncomfortably so, it's 20*c tonight and when I went to handle & feed the mice, three of the females (all the young ones at 7 weeks old) were slightly cool and slow...nowhere near as bad as it has been, but definitely in need of warming.

What can we do?? Will the heat mats even be enough? We plan on putting them on about 6 hours a day, in bursts of two hours, for additional heat...but we can't leave them on 24/7 because we'd need a thermostat for each one and that's £20 each that we can't afford just yet!

What temps are your mice kept at?


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## Torin (May 18, 2016)

Fancy mice are far better equipped to deal with the cold than the heat. Indeed at 30-32c I'd be worried about heatstroke/fatigue! Mine are at 8-14c in winter, approximately. If the forecast is particularly cold I just shove more hay and newspaper at them to make bigger nests with.

What do you use for substrate/ nesting/ bedding for them? And what are their nestboxes made of? Details like that can make a big difference to how warm they are.

Some species of exotic mice do require warmer temperatures though e.g. African pygmy mice, spiny mice. Perhaps the advice you've read is giving general 'all mice species' advice conflated into one?


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## MiceMad (Sep 5, 2016)

See that's what I'd always read too: mice can cope far better at lower temperatures than high!

And nope, the articles were all referring to fancy/pet mice, quite a few were scientific papers.

I was wondering if it was substrate based. Nesting material is a lot of tissue paper and small fleece blankets (maybe 6x6 inches?). The nest boxes are anything from wooden bridges to plastic hides or cardboard boxes (they have a selection). Sometimes they just choose to build nests out in the open, the large group of girls have done this and made a massive nest just in the open. The substrate is EcoBed (cardboard strips) is there anything better than that I could use, staying away from shavings or carefresh?


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## MiceMad (Sep 5, 2016)

I should also add that we have had past mice die of this - they were from a completely different place to any of our current mice, this was over a year ago, and they were in a cage that none of these mice have ever been in. They had the exact same symptoms (barely moving, cold to the touch) but at the time we didn't connect it and had no idea what to do, and all four of them died before we could get them to a vet. That was in winter again. Those girls were kept on shredded paper as a base substrate with strips of toilet roll for nesting.

Is it possible mice in this area are more susceptible because of how they've been bred, raised or their genetics?!


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## MiceMad (Sep 5, 2016)

So update. I've started adding hay as nesting material alongside the toilet paper - A LOT of hay. I also check nests daily because a few of the cages' inhabitants are terrible at maintaining nests. They let the nests fall apart and the cage is just strewn with nesting material, so every day I stuff nesting material back in boxes and double check they're all sleeping in there - which they do every time. One group of young boys in particular lets their nests fall apart every few days, goof balls. We've had no cold mice since adding hay and rebuilding nests, and everybody is much more active. I've even had to lower their food intake because they're gaining weight faster


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## MiceMad (Sep 5, 2016)

Well we had two 8 week old boys feeling chilly and being sluggish today, I'm warming them up as I type. They had a huge nest involving hay, fleece and TP, and when I found them they were actually nestled in the hay hidden from view. I had to destroy the nest to find them, and they were chilly. Wtf?! All the other mice have been up, active, warm and chubby since we added hay & just way more nesting material in general - I don't get it!


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Are they thin? Doesn't sound like temperature problems, as mentioned, mice are pretty hardy in the cold, but ill mice can feel cold and would definitely struggle with a harsh environment. I strongly suggest that they are ill mice.


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## Viverrinae (Nov 22, 2016)

Both of my mice get like this, too! My thermostat is set at 69 F / 20 c, granted they are kept in my room in the basement, it can get a little colder but there is a heat vent and they have stuffing, bedding, socks, and TP to make nests, and they do but they get sluggish and cold to the touch often as it gets colder outside. I'm thinking of adding a heating pad under the tank or a heat lamp because once I warm them up they're back to normal. The smaller one seems more affected than my slightly large one. But I thought mice were supposed to like the cold? When they feel so cold to the touch it breaks my heart and I plop right in my bra for warmth, haha.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

I would say that something is probably up with the mice, 69 should not be an issue for mice, my ac has been permanently on 61 cold although now the winter has come in it often gets a little below that. I have only one time found a mouse sluggish and cold to touch and that was a hairless that had other issues too (started developing goopy eyes and lumps on his underside). The rest of my hairless group live just fine even in the cold and they are more susceptible to it than the furred mice.

I'm not sure if this could be a reason but is it possible that not getting the correct nutrients from a diet could be fine for them living but not have the reserves to deal with cold?


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## Viverrinae (Nov 22, 2016)

Rose is slightly bigger and meatier and it doesn't happen to her as much/as bad as it does to Iris who is small and bonier. I've upped the food I give them slightly. Hopefully it helps. They haven't done it much the last couple of days but last week it was bad. I'm not ready for Iris to die lmao she's my favorite


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Id save any small cardboard packaging such as cereal boxes and stuff a mix of paper and hay in there so that the nest doesnt fall to bits.I wouldnt clean the nest in cold weather and I'd add some wild bird suet pellets to the diet during cold weather.


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