# The Deficit



## geordiesmice

Stepping aside from the norm for a bit, what are your opinions on cuts on services etc to reduce the deficit. Certain Chief Executives of local councils are getting more in wages than the Prime Minister , is that right? It looks possible we will be joining in military action in Libya to stop Gadaffi we always have plenty money for wars?.If the uk was to ever be attacked could we protect ourselves from an agressor. Do you think the Goverment are making cuts too fast or are they making a good job of the house keeping, I dont think so.Your opinions please on the deficit any coment please  .


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## SarahY

Unfortunately Labour put us so far in debt that cuts _must_ be made. The only thing we can do is suck it up, tighten our belts and stop complaining until things get better. Just my opinion though 

Sarah xxx


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## moustress

Western Europe and the US have grown fat at the expense of the rest of the world for the last 150 years. The fat has not been evenly distributed among the the different layers of economic standing, puffing up the small ranks of the wealthy and and increasing vastly the numbers of folks who have to scrape to get by.

I say, if you can't afford to buy food, eat the rich! (figuratively, speaking, of course...)

I set a good example of an alternative, myself, switching to beans and rice as I have several nights a week. It's no hardship, and in many parts of the world folks would be grateful to have rice OR beans, and thrilled to get both at the same time. The remainder of the example involves taking what is given by the Sisters Camelot, or other food giveaways. Nate and I, and our tenant share what he brings form those sources, with me contributing part of it back to him cooked, as he does very little in that area. I think it would be good if the fat rich would give more of their surplus to those that need help. The reality is that food only scratches the surface of deeper needs that exist.

Here in the US, it is glaring like a neon sign that our deficit is pretty closely matched by the cost of the wars we've supported.


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## bethmccallister

> Here in the US, it is glaring like a neon sign that our deficit is pretty closely matched by the cost of the wars we've supported.


I've found it interesting that when WWII came about it ended the depression era for good by putting Americans to work building products for use in the war. The city I live near...Youngstown Ohio, was once a booming steal industry...now it's a ghost town with crackheads and desperate homeless people. The ghetto doesn't even live in downtown Youngstown anymore, they've all moved to the suburbs of Youngstown.

So now that there have been several other wars/conflicts that we've supported were have all the jobs gone? In our area in particular technology jobs are few and far between and people are REALLY struggling to afford health care and basic life necessities like clothing and food. I've had a few family members that lost jobs and don't have health care or any means with which to pay for treatment for cancer. The hospitals won't see you if you can't pay. I've recently experienced this myself...needed a root canal that started out as a routine filling and went terribly wrong. A root canal is $1000 and then you're left with a huge hole in your tooth that needs a $600 crown. Dentist want paid up front, no payment plans available except if you have credit...that was back in July and I'm just now getting the crown made. I had to live with pain for 3 months until I could scrap together enough spare cash just for the canal.

Sorry for the rant...I have 3 children to support and lost my technology job last August because it was tied to the real estate industry and we just couldn't keep things floating any longer. I've since signed up to go back to school to be a Vet Tech which is an 18 month program and will cost $30,000!! Where is that money coming from? Will I even get to go? Who will watch my children when I'm in school full time, how will I make the daily hour drive there and hour back? How will I support us when the small portion of unemployment benefits run out as I'm already struggling?


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## Matt Haslam

This type of economic cycle is inevitable in capitalist societies.


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## geordiesmice

This is all true but the politicians who mostly are millionaires dont have to tighten there belts, what are they giving up apart from the big scam of expenses that were found out. They still go on there swiss ski holoidays etc We give money in aid to india yet they millions on a space programe that we cant afford to run ourselves,india cant afford to feed there people its a disgrace.We must stop all imigrants entering this country now we cant afford it im not racist but there has to be a limit.


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## racingmouse

It`s very sad is`nt it, that a democratic government can let it`s country get into such a state. Labour as a whole seem to be getting the blame and I agree that Brown (being a former Chancellor himself) should have realised what was going on. It`s nice to over-spend on things in the hope you can pay it back and then the banks crash and the proverbial hits the fan! So globally, it was`nt all Labours fault. Some of it was caused by banks and building societies allowing people to buy homes they obviously could`nt afford. Ireland went much the same way.

I feel so sorry for people in countries like Liberia and other parts of the world who have virtually nothing, yet their governmenets are in power for decades without any questions asked. It`s WRONG! People around the world are the same. WE should be the ones dictating who does what and voting them in just seems to make them distance themselves from reality. I hate politics, but just recently, I became much more aware of what politics do and how it effects me, so I do take some interest. I never voted Conservative in my life and being Scottish, never will. We have one Tory candidate in Scotland and he`s near the border! Maybe he should step over it and be banished for good...

I think the way this co-alition are dealing with the deficit is rediculous. It`s too hard and too fast. We should be making cuts, but not as big. By all means, make the cuts, but do it in a more reasoned way by making a lot of cuts, but over a longer period of time. That way, it still pays the debtors, yet keeps people in jobs.

I would vote labour again come the big election, but in truth, I would`nt be wholly happy about it. However the alternative is Tory and I`d rather walk in front of a bus than give them my vote. Leopards never change their spots my friends and Cameron is another `Not for turning` Thatcher in disguise. The Scots see it, I just hope the rest of the country do too before they rule over us like a discatorship.


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## geordiesmice

I totally agree Racing mouse , most of the deficit was the banks fault , the hash the condems are making of the so called recovery they will never get into power again yes something had to be done with the benefit system but has there? I still see people driving round in top of the range mobility cars give them an electric car more economical for us tax payers who pay for the scheme , claiming Employment and support allowance now which I will say the assesment is very very strict because in the past it wasnt and alot of people who were suposedly disabled werent so I agree there with what the condems are doing benefits cost this country billions of pounds and it did need sorting out , but the true needy ones get nothing if you get no points you have to look for work.I took voluntary redundancy to look after my mum I went for a job related interview last week and was asked to look for work, I have worked for 22 year payed all my taxes everything i cant get any help,Im now a full time carer for mum, yet the Social services will pay 40 quid to a man every week to go to the pub on his mobility scooter because hes an alcoholic as its cheaper than treating him on the NHS now hes just one its a disgrace.Sorry ill step off my orange box now lol


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## moustress

Shiprat is right on the money, if you'll excuse the pun. It's the monetary drive; we are conditioned to want things we don't need and thus we shell out bucks instead of saving or investing. It's truly evil in parts of the world that grow cash crops instead of food for the village and the family. They are underpaid for their cocoa beans, or whatever, and, of course!-they want some of the things that we all take for granted! There goes the money, but where's the food to feed the family? Some countries grow poppies or coca instead of conventional cash crops because that gives them a better payback.

Compassion is in short supply these these days and too many people are trying for the short end of the stick...I don't have any health insurance and haven't for a couple of years now. It's a bit scary, but it does give me incentive to take better care of myself, I guess. Bill Gates and other billionaires have the right idea- give in huge abundance when you have so much more than you need - so many people live it up, and wouldn't it be nice if they'd voluntarily help out the poor? Instead of spending on $800. pairs of shoes or $1000. handbags or another home when they already have a couple, or a third car, etc. etc.

We all want stuff and most of us don't care where it's manufactured, we just want it at the best price, without really seeing the hidden costs. We want more than we need...the American dream is unrealistic...owning two cars per family and a summer home, and nice fat retirement accounts and pensions...for pity's sake I hope folks wake up before things get really hairy in the streets of America. Do we really need telly's in three or four rooms, or to go about bristling with electronic gadgets or new clothes every season, etc. etc.? Even if we can afford all these things in the short term we are selling our childrens future to China and some other parts of the world. The monetary drive is vicious. Don't even start me going on about Wall Street!


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## geordiesmice

I love a good discussion.


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## racingmouse

It`s so true moustress. The young seem to go around in blinkers and don`t realise that that iPod they spent good money on could have been better used put away and invested. But some people `live for the now` and don`t plan for their future. They live in a world of illusion. Geordie, I have been on Incapacity benefit for about eight years after having work related issues and pain problems. My issues are still ongoing and I am basically waiting to be re-assessed under these new coalition benefit rules. Because I do have pain issues, I know I will get enough points to be in the `work related` group, rather than the `support` group, but even so, I will still be required to attend work focused interviews about six times a year. I don`t mind that at all, as long as the people interviewing me realise that no employer is going to employ a 46 years old woman with ongoing pain issues. I know I would`nt!

It seems the needs of the many are being squeezed because of the greedy few (the cheats). I totally see where your coming from in regards to the cushy travel allowances and cars and other add-ons. I only get one benefit with no free travel or perks and I would`nt dare apply for them either because I don`t require them. Some people just claim everything they think they can get, when in fact, they don`t need it. If people claiming some of these sickness benefits looked at their circumstances and were true to themselves, more money could be saved. But it`s taking sheer brute force to deal with every individual to save this money and I fear that people like myself, who can do something under the right circumstances, might be pushed too far over the edge. I don`t mind fairness, but the way you hear words like `radical` being used is truly unecessary and in some ways, frightening.

I just don`t like the way this government are using words like this to put down people in my position and others in a worse position. I can see this whole program being totally unfair and unjust.

geordie, do you have any health issues at all, or did you apply for a carers allowance only? If this is the case, then they will still see you as `fit for work`, which is why they are asking you to look for work, but if you have any limitations, you need to declare these. Obviously, you can`t work full time if your looking after your mum.


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## moustress

And then there's the health care issue. We already have a three tier health care situation in the US. The first tier are those who are well off enough that they can get whatever they need and whatever they desire from the medical providers. The second tier are those who have health care benefits from work, some of whom are doing oK with that, others of whom can barely afford the premiums much less the co-pays and the deductibles. The third tier are the really low income and the disabled; this tier is insanity incarnate. Those who are not disabled and can't afford insurance scrape by with whatever they can afford, seeing a doctor only when it is immediately necessary. Those who are recognized as being officially disabled have access to almost as much care as the well-off folks mentioned in tier one.

I'm trying to keep going without claiming disability for myself out of, well, stubborn pride, maybe. I don't know. I have lived with chronic pain issues for most of my adult life. Mostly I tough it out, taking OTC meds when I have to. In my family of origin (foo) we weren't taken to a doctor unless we were seriously injured or extremely ill, and were brought up to feel shame if we had to ask somebody or some agency for help. Nowadays folks go to the doctor and complain about ailments that are the result of an unhealthy lifestyle, and the doctor gives them medicine to quell the symptoms. It's childish, I think, to do things that are harmful and then take medicens that may add to problems in the form of side effects and in the form of the sense that since you are being treated, you can continue just as you have been doing.

We've probably all heard the joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and say, "It hurts when I do X." and the doctor days "Well, stop doing that!" We need more of that; we need to stop doing the things that hurt us! Chips and soda and icecream and cookies are supposed to be special treats, not part of an everyday diet, for pity's sake! Dieting to lose weight quickly is bad for you, unless you have some condition in which it is medically necessary. We, the people of this world, need to resume using self control and start making smart decisions in how we live. Doctors and governments and buearocracies cost way too much, and don't do a good job, and why should they? They don't have to feel our pain, so it doesn't matter. Humanity in the Western world need to stop acting like sheep and start acting like intelligent individuals who make informed choices that are good for us, good for our countries, and, especially, good for our children.

The whole issue of healthcare is a hot-button area for me. I could go on....and on...and on...but I'll stop now.


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## geordiesmice

Yes agre with you both Racingmouse and Moustress I have work related injury myself but not on the incapacity which is now called employment and support. I signed myself off and am now a full time carer I cant leave Mum alone to work thats why I finnished because she was falling over it was unfortunate that I fell off a wall at work long before i accepted the redundancy my next interviewwill be in 3 years.If I do get a job it can only be light work because of my knee injury people who are genuine like yourself deserve it and everything they can get .When you go to get assesed I know someone who has parkinsons disease was deemed fit for work but won on appeal RM what there apparently doing is failing alot of people andhoping they wont appeal a person with osteo artritis and had two strokes failed but won on appeal the goverment must be saying fail more than you pass toappeal they go in front of a doctor and judge it must cost more to fail a person than to save money on the benefits.


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## racingmouse

I know geordie it`s rediculous the way these agencies are treating people with genuine problems. I will fight my corner right enough when the time arises, but there is only so much you can do and hope they listen. My GP would certainly back me up and so would the gyneocologist I saw just yesterday! But it does`nt take away the strain and the stress and the worry, which can make you ill in the first place. I was just told yesterday that I would be coming off a drug I have taken for nine years now to supress female abdominal pain issues, so goodness knows how my body is going to react to that over the coming months. I`ve to keep a diary and see how things go basically. It`s not that I can`t have other therapies, but they want me to come off this drug as I`ve been on it for years and it can cause osteoarthritis, so I suppose I have to listen and side with their opinions at least in the meantime.

mousetress, you are SO right about lifestyle and how that has a baring on prescription drugs and GP visits. I personally have to watch what foods I eat because I get irritable bowel type sysmptoms aswell and some foods can trigger this. Even though I stopped eating processed meats, bacon, fizzy/carbonated drinks and some other things, I still get some days when I can`t control it, but I certainly don`t take anything for it either! I don`t believe in taking drugs for every ailment. The human body can fix itself sometimes and looking at what we put into it has a huge baring on that. I also don`t believe in diets either. It`s what you eat and how MUCH you eat. Weight control is up to the individual to manage. Some drugs can actually make you gain weight and foods that are labelled as low fat and diet foods usually have other chemicals in them to make them taste good because the fats have been sucked out of them. So when people eat low fat foods, they eat more because they never feel fulfilled. More food = more weight!

It`s much better to have set meals each day and just eat when your hungry without snacking and overeating. I would like to see people shopping and eating with far more thought, rather than just spending copious amount of money on junk and making the supermarkets richer!


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## geordiesmice

I had to post this what do you think of Charles Osborne claiming £140.00 on fuel to drive round his constituency and other MPs making 22,000 claims over 3 million in fuel expenses one claimed 14p for driving a 3rd of a mile on MP buisness he gets over £60,000 a year.So who is tightening there belts certainly not the MPs there still abusing the expenses system.


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## Seawatch Stud

My God.


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## racingmouse

Some things never change. It will always be one rule for them and sod everyone else. Just because they are MP`s does`nt mean they should be getting all these privillages. Especially when the country is bankrupt. Of course they always justify their expenses, but someone who is jobless or on a low wage is expected to pay bus fares and taxi fares to get around. I don`t have any `disibility` benefits so I can`t claim free travel as many do. I would benefit greatly from having `some` travel assistance as I struggle to carry two bags of groceries home once a week and my mother is 71 with arthritic knees and she goes into town more than I do! She gets free concessionary travel since she`s an OAP (and rightly so) but I would like to see that extended to people who like me, would benefit from a small fare concession. It costs me £4.00 return a day just to get to Tesco, so it`s just as well I only go in once a week. No posh cars for me.


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## geordiesmice

I agree with everything you said RM they probably wont even look at there heating bills or even pay them.


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## racingmouse

But hav`nt you heard geordie? "We`re all in this together" don`t you know.... We mere Serfs (or slaves to put it mildly) will always be downtrodden by the few.


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## Seawatch Stud

This is all very one-sided and self indulgent. There are plenty of hard working, tax paying people out there all too happy to see our ludicrously over spending public sector being cut back. As a tax payer I'm glad it's happening, the deeper, the better. Since the second world war we have become over dependent on the state. I resent paying for people to sit around, watching t.v all day, or going online ( all benefit claimants seem to have computers and sky t.v) instead of going out to work. Food stamps and community service should be the future for the inadequates of the world.


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## racingmouse

It`s easy to say that when your on the other end of the stick. I used to be a full-time medical receptionist and a part time researcher before that and in an ideal world, I still would be except for the fact that I, like many benefit claimants have physical problems that include dealing with painful issues and conditions, so it`s not easy for someone in that position to be told they are `fit to work`. While I might be able to type a few words on a Laptop every now and then, I can`t carry out many of the tasks I used to be able to and watching Tv is`nt one of my pastimes I have to say.

What this government is doing is driving a divide between people by showing what a grand job they are doing by stamping on the most vulnerable in society, while at the same time making sure the rich stay that way. I have nothing at all against rich and wealthy people because they (or most of them) worked hard to get where they are and good on them. But what I don`t like is when someone who works thinks it`s a good idea to bad mouth the people on welfare as it`s all too easy. What you have to remeber is, nobody`s job is safe and people IN work could easily find themselves OUT of work. So be careful what you wish for. There`s always a price to pay.

Ask anyone who is on benefits, be that Jobseekers Allowance or one of the other benefits and see if they tell you it`s a bed of roses.


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## Seawatch Stud

As someone who so vociferously defends their right to express themselves no matter what, you may wish to extend the same courtesy to others. In my opinion, too many people have had it too easy for too long, you don't agree? too bad.


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## geordiesmice

Seawatchstud is absoloutely right and I agree with him there are 2 people on my street with mobility cars one mucks out racing pigeons and carries containers of water 100s of yards to the pigeons every other day has a bad back and a mobility car.The other changes wheels on cars lying on the road he got his new car today they get a car every 3 year the goverment hasnt stopped it yet its still going on .Im not saying everyone is like them two but there are alot of crafty people out there.I also though agree with RM there are many genuine people I have packed my job in after 22 years to look after my poorly mum I get £53.00 a week instead of alot more I got in wages but familly is important too me. If I put her in a home it would cost the state a hell of alot more than £53.00 they give me too look after her that pays My NI contributions its not to squander.Mum cant get mobility shes too old she cant walk I use a lifting aid and wheelchair but when you see people who are fleecing the system,hopefully the ones that have been claiming for say 10 years and nothing wrong with them when they go to get re assessed they will be taken off.I have a nice home a nice tv and a laptop but I worked hard for them.And what im saying is the Mps say where all in it together what are they giving up oh yes a big pay rise is getting frozen they have had it good too long as well along with council chief execs, oh and now we have these new created jobs the five a day squad telling you too eat five pieces of Rabbit food a day thats where money is getting squanderedon created jobs people walking round with pieces of blank paper all day.


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## racingmouse

I agree that there are and always will be individuals who work the system, but it`s the system that`s flawed and tars everyone with the same stick. The new tests that have been brought in should weed out those liars and cheats, but at the same time, it`s also does`nt address the true issues of individuals with health issues that they might not see as severe enough to be awarded points to stay on a particular benefit. It`s a typical `tick box` scenario and not a proper reflection of the truth.

Anyway, I don`t have to defend my position. I`ve always passed medicals in the past and my conditions are as bad as they ever were, so I`m confident that I will retain that stance. But Employment Support Allowance as it`s now called is in two parts. The support group and the work based group. I would probably fall into the work based goup even though I have health issues. The support group is only for individuals who have severe health problems.


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## SarahY

> This is all very one-sided and self indulgent. There are plenty of hard working, tax paying people out there all too happy to see our ludicrously over spending public sector being cut back. As a tax payer I'm glad it's happening, the deeper, the better. Since the second world war we have become over dependent on the state. I resent paying for people to sit around, watching t.v all day, or going online ( all benefit claimants seem to have computers and sky t.v) instead of going out to work. Food stamps and community service should be the future for the inadequates of the world.


I completely agree. Of course there are people who can't work, but the majority won't work and it's a well known fact that to cut unemployment figures and make themselves look better, Labour switched most of the claimants from jobseekers to incapacity benefits.

I myself have an ongoing medical condition and my doctor _offered_ to write me off. No way! I can still work and pay my own bills thank you.

Sarah xxx


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## racingmouse

There are individuals who can work and still be on incapacity benefits because although they have mobility issues or special needs, they don`t have chronic pain issues. I myself suffer from ongoing pain due to two seperate things and although I have pain medication, it does`nt address the problem. So that pain also makes me unreliable on a daily basis. So although someone may be assessed as being capable of work, it does`nt mean they are able to get up on time, leave the house to begin work, travel to that job and be expected to carry on as a normal person would. So each individual has different needs and that`s where the problems lie. Many people like myself don`t want to be seen as useless because we are not. I would be quite prepared to have a job again, a daily routine and the respect that brings, but unless my pain can be brought under control, I`m afraid I will always be at the mercy of the welfare system as it is.

When I was in work, I did`nt gripe about people who were unemployed. In fact, it never even crossed my mind because I`ve been on both sides of the coin, so I understand what being unemployed means and how it can actually make you ill and depressed. Of course there are the people who are highlighted all the time in newspaper stories of having 13 kids and two council houses knocked together and thousands of pounds spent on them by the state, but hey, who`s going to tell a woman to stop having babies? This gets me wound up aswell, but unless the government pass a law that women who are single and unemployed with kids won`t get benefits, there would be an outcry..."Oh the poor wee kiddies living in poverty"......well in my eyes the parents chose that life and they should be educated enough to realise that for every child they have while they don`t have the money to care for it is stupidity.

It`s these individuals the government should be targetting not the sick.


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## The Village Mousery

Ok now i'll get involved, I myself have 2 children and a sick partner, you saying because i'm not working and have children i'm stupid? i think this topic is going to far now!! I worked for years even after my first child was born and only when i fell pregnant with my second did i give up work to raise my family and look after my partner as there was no way in hell he could of looked after both children in the pain his was and is in. Please dont waste your breath apologising your clearly as biased as the goverment!


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## racingmouse

For goodness sakes! Someone can`t post on here without ending up being pulled down for having their say about something. Now I`m the bad egg (again) for just trying to put some points across while staying within the theme of the thread. I was`nt making assumptions or naming anyone inparticular. I don`t even know you. Your position in life Village Mousery is different from my own. You worded your thread as though I was speaking to you when I was making a broader statement. I don`t know why you thought I was bad mouthing people who have kids, but also have a need for support, just as I do. I pointed out the problems that society has and just happened to mention that someone who chooses to have all those kids knowing full well they can`t afford to keep them should know better. I`m not working and sick, so that makes me stupid too, as you so politely put it.


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## SarahC

locked due to sensible debate going out of the window.


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