# Roan/Merle



## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

If you breed a merle to a non merle, what are you likey to get?
I have a blue merle buck that I want to breed to my broken blue doe.

Whats the difference between blue merle and black merle? Or are they both black merle?
Ive seen pictures of blue merles that look the same as black merles and pictures of black merles that look like blue merles.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

The black and blue part, from what I understand, refers to the base coat of the mouse. And no one has answered you about the roan/merle part because apparently different genes control the merle pattern. Sometimes the pattern breeds as dominant, and sometimes it breeds as recessive, and there's no way to know until you breed. I also have a black merle buck who I breed to a black roan doe, so I'm waiting to see what happens. She's due in a couple weeks, so I won't know until then.

I bred that same doe to a black self buck, and got all black selfs, so I'm fairly certain that my strain of roan is recessive. It will be interesting to see how it plays against the merle, especially since my merle buck is also a fox.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Ive got it figured out now.
Theres 2 types of merle, one shows up right away and 1 takes some time.
Roan is dom and its not know what causes merle.
Black merles look like bluetick coonhounds marking wise


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a question about merles... Do they have white bellies? And I mean, not fading to white, but clear line between top and bottom? I'm asking, because I bred a roan to a merle, and all the babies have light bellies. Makes me wonder if he carries some kind of tan gene, but the roan has a dark belly... is this just one of those weird things when the probability is like 25% white belly, but nature sneezed and now all 9 are white belly?


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

It appears its common for them have white bellies( like with marked brindles) without being tan/fox


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

The Tan gene, as well as the Agouti White-bellied gene, cannot be carried as they are dominant. Often, any marked varieties will have no markings, or very few, on the belly.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

I have one line of brindles that has markings on their bellies and then another that has white bellies.
My merle buck has markings on his belly like on his back and one of the does has a white belly. The other one is roan on the belly.


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## nuedaimice (May 26, 2010)

Windyhill, you can figure out which merle/roan gene you are working with (dominant or recessive) by looking at a couple of the physical attributes of your mice.

If you are working with dominant merle/roan then the roan will be darker in appearance, and it will develop later.

If you are working with recessive merle/roan then the roan will be lighter in appearance (usually they have a lot more white hairs in the roaning) and it will show itself immediately.

Obviously, if you breed a dom. merle to a non-merle you'll still get merle/roan in the first litter. If you breed rec. merle to a non-merle, well, unless your non-merle is a carrier, you will not get any merle/roan babies the first time around.

If you get merle/roan in the first litter, keep an open mind about the results, especially if you know little about the lineage of your non-merle.

As for blue merle and black merle... In mice a black merle is a black mouse with the merle pattern. In dogs a blue merle is a black dog with the merle pattern. In mice a blue merle is a blue mouse with the merle pattern. Some breeders may use the term "blue merle" from dogs to describe black merle mice. Mostly because a "blue merle" (blue dog with the merle pattern) isn't an accepted color in most breeds that I know of, so therefore, not very common.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Ive been talking to alot of other breeders that breed merle/roan and have gotten lots of help from them on explaining everything.
The roan doe I have came from a litter that had a merle in it. 
Just wasnt sure if the dom one came in color first or later. 
They black merle/blue merle thing makes sense, as your right, you fony see "blue merle" accepted in many breeds (if at all)


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I know that a lot of marked mice like brindles, roans and merles, can have either white or marked bellies, but in the case of the white bellies, don't the makring fade into white? On my guy, there is a clear line of demarkation between his top and his belly, and since he's a merle, there's even a patch of black that just stops at his belly. I bred him to a roan, and the babies just opened their eyes today. About two are roan, the rest merle, and all of them have creamy white bellies that begin in an abrupt line. So I'm thinking he's at/at, what ever else he is. Also, I think on of the babies might be satin... it's very hard to tell, but he's shinier than the others, and his belly has a definite pearl-type shine.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

On mine, the markings donr fade into white and I know they arent tan/fox.


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