# nursing mouse



## kelsiikiller666

what do i feed my nursing mouse and how often should i give her milk soaked bread?


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## jammin32

ive read its best to give them there normal diet with an additional 3 - 5% protein added to their diet.
In regards to milk and bread i found the following article:

lactating females do not need to consume milk or dairy products themselves. This goes for all mammals - humans and dogs as well as mice. Dairy produce can be a useful source of protein, but it is not necessary. It is not a natural food for mice.

Fresh water must be available to lactating females at all times. Check frequently that water bottles are not clogged. To be safe, leaving two water bottles in the cage will ensure that water is available even if one clogs.

Do not offer milk, milk substitutes or animal formula to baby or young mice unless there is a serious medical problem, or you are hand-rearing them. Their bodies are designed to thrive on mouse milk, not cow milk. The milk of other species is unnecessary, and could damage their health in the long-run as well as the short-term.

We know that humans fed formula milk are more likely to suffer from a range of health problems; the same almost certainly applies to other mammals.

But im sure others with more experience would say this is wrong but im honestly not 100% sure, just thought it may help


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## MojoMouse

You really need to provide a link to the source when you quote from or cut and paste from an article.

That quote refers more to giving cows milk to the babies, which was not the question asked by the OP.

On this forum, several times, some of the most experienced breeders have mentioned that they occasionally give bread soaked in milk to nursing mothers. It's been pointed out that this practice has been done for over 100 years. There is NO evidence that the mice have suffered any ill health because of it. In fact, if you compare show mice to pet types, I'd say the show mice have done rather well under the care of the breeders over the years. 

This is not to say nursing mothers _need_ this as a supplement. They don't. A bit of extra protein from other sources would be fine. But they like it. Well, mine do. So they get a small piece of bread soaked in milk a couple of times a week while they are lactating. I use soy milk, but only because that's what I have here. If I had cows milk, they'd get that.


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## moustress

There was a discussion months ago about the use of milk for pregnant and nursing does. Some of the better English breeders give their meeces bread and milk, not just the mothers, but to all their mousies.

One member said dairy products can cause liver damage is meeces; I tend to think that the English breeders would know if it causes any kind of illness. I used to give my moms and babies dried bread with milk, then I switched to Cream of Rice cooked and mostly cooled, during the warm months. Cream of Rice may be better for babies and young meeces. Currently I give rolled oats , uncooked, soaked in whole milk. I'm considering switching to half and half or cream; I think the fat is a good addition to the diet of breeding and nursing mousies.

Many breeders in the UK use a product called Lactol, which is whey powder. That's derived from milk...

The plain fact is that every breeder probably has their own way of enriching their meeces diet, breeding or non breeding. My meeces get a lump of corn-free puppy chow every others day, except for breeding, nursing, or very young meeces, which get it every day, along with scrambled egg and oats (or whatever starch I choose to use) and milk.

I suggest you wait for further answers and then decide what you want to do. Or you can use the search funtion for info in this forum, there is a veritable mountain of that in this forum.


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## MojoMouse

moustress said:


> corn-free puppy chow


In my opinion the corn thing is in the same category as milk. It comes up again and again, presented a priori as a "fact", but with nothing substantive to back it up. Personal preferences, even based on what you may assume from observations in a mousery, are fine. However, a mousery is NOT a controlled environment, and any number of factors could influence outcomes, not just corn or milk.

Scientific evidence in controlled environments would give better facts.

I'm not arguing your experiences or preferences, btw!  I'm simply pointing out how some myths end up being perpetuated. The milk and corn things are taken as "known facts" on several mouse forums, and members are berated if they transgress.

My mice LOVE unbuttered popcorn as a treat. They don't go so much for dried corn though. My nursing mothers seem to really like bread and milk. Sometimes I even give them a bit of milk in a bottle cap. It goes pretty fast.


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## jammin32

MojoMouse said:


> You really need to provide a link to the source when you quote from or cut and paste from an article.quote]
> 
> Sorry the article was sourced from here: http://petshub.com/blog/633


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## MojoMouse

That's just a blog piece, not a scientific article. :lol: It's well intended, but it's just an opinion. No better than the opinions of the good breeders here. In fact, I'd take more notice of the experience on this forum.

That being said, it makes some good suggestions, such as water back ups for nursing mothers. Also, the point about not feeding babies subsitute milk is valid, unless they're being hand reared. It doesn't claim specifically, though, that nursing mothers should NOT be given cows milk. It simply points out that though this is a good source of protein, it's not a natural food source for mice. Thius doesn't mean that it will harm them though!


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## jammin32

It was late last night when i read it and didnt even notice it was someones personal opinion rather than a result of research, apologies


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## MojoMouse

It's good that you read it, and there wasn't any misinformation on it. It's just that it's not the kind of article that you'd take as an authority on a subject. I didn't mean to be snappy, so I apologise.

BTW it didn't actually claim that cow's milk was _harmful_ for adult nursing females - just that it wasn't a natural food source. It's probably not "natural" because in the wild, a mouse would have a bit of difficulty getting to a cow's udder and sucking up the milk! :lol: Apart from that, mice have good constitutions and can cope with a wide range of food. That's one of the reasons they're so successful as a species.

I think that there's just been an unusual amount of references recently here on the forum about the same old tired myths that just won't go away - stuff about some foods, bedding substrate etc. These things are personal choice. The people who are the quickest to criticise simply don't offer any credible evidence to support what they're saying.


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## PPVallhunds

my pregant and nursing does get my normal food with a handfull of pedigree small bite mixer thrown in to bump up the protien a bit.


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## moustress

When you get right down to it, it may be simply true that different populations of meeces in far flung and different parts of the globe may have acquired different tolerances/preferences for assorted foods. I'm a big fan of whatever works.


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## MiceGalaxyDK

Now this is an older thread
But still think that I will give my opinion
I would not dare to give milk to my mouse - not even my pregnant / lactating mice.
If you are searching on the internet, you can actually find that broadly most mammals actually outgrow the ability to break down lactose,
People in some parts of the world are actually lactose intolerente as adults,
'cause they do not get any other milk besides the milk they gets from their mothers breast.
While if we take Scandinavia including Denmark, we retain the ability to break down lactose because we drink so much milk as we do.

Sorry for my poor grammatics


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## moustress

Animals lose the ability to digest lactose depending on more than one factor; part is whether or not they continue to use dairy as a dietary source through childhood and on into adulthood. The other factor is genetic, but even that does not define entirely whether or not a person has difficulty digesting milk products.

I haven't done the research, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that different strains of meeces have similar basis' for the ability to tolereate milk or milk products.

Generally, I have a problem with any statement that insists that any particular dietary prohibition or addition is the one true way for all humans to eat, and I feel the same about mousies.

My term for those who want to rule on what is right for health is general is 'body Nazis', whether it be relate to physical type, dietary practices, personal habits, and so forth. They used to bug me; now they just seem sad.

Folks should do what works; that's what I said before, and I'm sticking with it.


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## We Love Mouse

About the lactose stuff, how do we know if our mice are lactose-intolerance or not?


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## moustress

Good question; never have heard a flatulent mousie. I think the objections to milk for meeces is based more on some other matabolic effect, though. I think Rhasputin had some info on that, or Stina. Maybe they can jump in and answer.

I can only go from my experiences, and it doesn't seem to bother my mousies, the blues especially seem to do better with it than without. As to lactose intolerance in humans, I am merely extrapolating in drawing an analogy to meeces, which are rather similar genetically.


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