# set-ons and ears



## mouser (Dec 24, 2010)

Hi so I'm gradually learning what's what . I have taken a good look (or 200) at my girls and see a smallish (may be young) agouti tan(poor) with good ear set and set on . The others are mostly color and coat with a feature here or there worth working with . The sheen on them all is blinding(except the yellowish one, though she's most definitely satin- still can't settle on a color . yellow? poor fawn? unmarked brindle? Argente?) wish I had a camera . Never saw an agouti with such a high sheen. So I'm guessing they are all satin.

back to topic I'm wondering if there are particular varieties that hold favor for producing good ear set and size and good tail set-on. I will assume there is a whole lot of gradual selection going on but I have read here that certain varieties bring small ears(dutch? ) and others Cobby build, etc and am familiar with such linking of features with other species . 
I am working with retail grade mice here and have little or no access to show type. 
Thanks for the help . oh yeah and is there a preference in making improvements of such features where buck or doe is concerned ?


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

There is no linking to coat colours for poor type in Fancy Mice. All varieties are capable of having excellent type, they are al decended from the common house mouse. However, some breeds have difficult to acheive standards in areas other than type, hence se3lection for type in these breeds like dutch has had to take a back seat or the markings would not be as advanced as they are. you could easily create dutch wih good type if you bred with mice which hd good type, however you would scramble the markings.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm just going to add that although a buck and doe can pass on good traits equally,a buck will have a bigger influence simply because you can spread his genes quickly far and wide.Does are limited by how many litters they can produce.If you get a buck with something good use him to fix it in your stud of mice.


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## mouser (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks both , much to learn, may actually have some access to some better quality mice in the nearish future so hopefully will get some good hands on experience . I think I may get into this a bit more than I thought i would as there may be a club starting up in the area. these little girls are captivating . I went to take another look to see what was in with them at the store and found i had overlooked a sweet dove tan . she's got nice ears and good tan color though its a little faded on the under mid line so work there will be in order. but a sweet find as far as I'm concerned . time t get more housing.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

> There is no linking to coat colours for poor type in Fancy Mice. All varieties are capable of having excellent type, they are al decended from the common house mouse.


Just for posterities sake I feel the need to point out that dominant red mice have problems directly associated with the A^y gene that will likely prevent them from ever having the type or health that other varieties are capable of. A^y is not available everywhere anyway though.....and recessive yellow (e) should be capable of achieving just as dark as, if not darker than, A^y....but without the health problems.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

It is easier to get excellent type (including head shape and ear set) on show PEWs than most other varieties because you don't have to work as hard to keep the color or markings perfect. They're already perfect on PEWs.


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## mouser (Dec 24, 2010)

Are there no problems with dirtiness (of color not soiling) with PEW's With bird there is often a suffusion of color from either a structural or amelanistic pigment that shows and is a fault in albinos and lutinos, nothing like that here ?

Mouse first, color after the mouse is perfected. :-L


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

No.


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## minibears (Jul 30, 2010)

A^vy are fatties too,


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

PEWs will yellow over time, the trick is to breed the ones that stay white the longest.

Sarah xxx


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I generally don't keep them (especially does) past the age of 8 or 9 months. By that point, they usually have produced offspring who are better than themselves and aren't needed. At what age do yours yellow?


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't have yellow PEW's at any age, it's a myth. The only time "yellowing" is found in the coat it's always been there. Cream bred PEW's can show a yellow tinge, or cast in the coat, but again it's there for life. Silver bred PEW's should never show any "yellowing" at all. Obviously the lack of pigment, combined with hollow hair, can make PEW satins look "yellowy" hence the name Ivory instead of White satin.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> At what age do yours yellow?


I don't keep PEWs 



> I don't have yellow PEW's at any age, it's a myth.


That's very interesting; lots of people mention PEW yellowing with age so I thought it was true. We should have a 'mythbuster' page :lol:

Sarah xxx


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I knew that! Brain slip! My doves throw PEWs, too, so I just assumed everybody's did! :lol:

But yeah, my PEWs are never ever yellowy. I used to breed budgies and finches, and the way that albino varieties turn yellow is due to the way feathers are produced. Yellow oil or pigment or something comes out to condition the feathers and white birds can look yellowy...I don't know the exact details because I always bred colored varieties. Red-eyed birds freak me out.  *shrug*


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## mouser (Dec 24, 2010)

albino budgies(amelanistic blue) bred from lutinos(Amelanistic greens) will often have yellow pigment . It not being melanin means it isn't masked . Albinos are bred from blue birds (recessive to the normal green, no yellow pigment) Lutinos bred from green birds. the blue color is a structure color so it is possible to have lutinos(genetic "albino" green birds )with a structure component that produces the slight green suffusion when on an otherwise all yellow(amelanistic) bird or blue suffusion on an all white bird..
It has nothing to do with oil or pigment used for conditioning feathers . I assume you are speaking of the preen gland oil . I suppose it could collect dirt if the birds didn't have bathing facilities.

I know nothing of finches.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Hmm...interesting. I don't know much about albino birds (I'm so tempted to call them PEWs, lol) just what I was told at shows about why they white ones took on a yellowy tinge...

Albino mice have no pigment, whatsoever, inborn or acquired, in any form, regardless of the genotype background. They're pristine, pure, sparkling white. That's why they're easier to build type on--the color is already perfect.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

> A^vy are fatties too


Obesity in A^vy mice is not directly related to the A^vy gene, and not all A^vy mice are obese. There is a gene closely linked to the A^vy gene that causes obesity, and it can, and has been, unlinked from A^vy to produce lines of "normal weight" A^vy mice.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I used to deliver to a lab and the mice they produce to be obese are black,which came as a surprise to me as in the mouse fancy we associate it with yellow mice.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

There are Zucker lab rats who are obese PEWs, too.


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