# Siamese - is this boy or girl in your opinion?



## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

I got a male and female siamese from Kallan, and they just keep scrapping, ...like major fighting.

I am now unsure if the 'female' is a female? see pics (the sore on the tail was from a previous fight and it is on the mend after being bathed etc). The male, is deffo a male. but I am unsure on this. I can't see nipples on the 'female'.

HELP!


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

sorry for huge pics, forgot to resize!


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

and if the 'female' is deffo a female....why the fighting! the male is fine with other females, and the female is fine with other mice. but these two together is a recipe for disaster!


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

and why no nipples?!


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

You can always try putting the mouse in with another doe, and see if 'she' tries to mount it.
It looks like a girl to me, but something looks. . . off.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm thinking a male that hasn't developed propperly.


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

could be a heshe lol i love that name


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

Thats what I said Meg x


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

this mouse has been in with another doe since i got her, and never tried to mount her once. i'm just really unsure whats going on with this one. something is just not quite right. and the fighting that i witnessed between this mouse and my confirmed male.... was like two bucks coming to blows.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

That definitely looks like a lady to me...

Sarah xxx


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

so....it begs the questions....
why no nipples?
and why the excessive fighting between her and the siamese male?


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## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

I could have sworn I commented on this post. xD Anyway, I say definitely a female, though how old is he/she?

I've had a female who fought excessively with males, but only while young.

Sometimes on my especially fluffy mice, I can't see the nipples, though they really are there. Or.. it's always possible she could have a hormonal problem?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

it looks female to me.If you gently press around under her tail any testicles would be popped out.Siamese are the most aggressive mice I've ever kept as far as fighting goes closely followed by self blacks.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

Have you held the base of her tail. lifted her rear up and blown on her tummy to try and spot any nipples?


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

It looks like a girl, but it does look a bit off


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

I know I don't have the experience most of you breeders do but with my Siamese girl she was really quite aggressive when she was in with Mintola. She has calmed down in her old age but her daughters are like that as well and if a male so much as looks at them they will attack. Poor Mintola was really badly wounded by Sookie - if I hadn't been awake the night that she turned on him (more aggressive than she already was) I honestly think she would have killed him. Sherbet (Sookie's non siamese sister) wasn't as aggressive with the same male and neither are her daughters. It sounds like this is maybe the same thing.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

That's interesting, Sarah, about Siamese being more agressive. I had noticed that myself. Champagnes seem more ready to scrap too.

The mousie in question looks female to me, and I think I see small nipples in the first pic. they are sett much closer to the midline of the belly than is typical, though.


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

Hmm...do you think this type of behaviour would be learned or inherited from the mother mouse? I'm assuming it would be inherited because Sookie's three daughters are like this but their three half sisters aren't and they have all lived together since they were a day old.


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## jessilynn (Jul 9, 2010)

I have a siamese that is the absolute sweetest mouse I have ever seen. Ever. She is an absolute smoosh ball!


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## ccoryjohnn (Jul 2, 2010)

I would also have to say its female, but that's just my guess!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

moustress said:


> That's interesting, Sarah, about Siamese being more agressive. I had noticed that myself. Champagnes seem more ready to scrap too.


The first adult buck I had was unsafe with does,really aggressive.I have a few now but I mixed them in with blues and since they are not so pure bred the aggression hasn't been as high.I haven't got champagnes so haven't any experience of aggression in them.


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

Ooh how interesting! I have 4 from the same litter as miss.understood. I have all of them (1 buck and three does) in together and have done since I got them from Kallan and I've not had so much as a squeak from them! The male just pampers the girls (frustratingly, as I'd like some babies from them one day lol) and the girls just sit back and lap it up. I wonder, if it is a behavioral thing, what has triggered it, if it was a general siamese thing, I'm sure I'd have had at least one of my four and a psycho mousie too?

Might it be because we set them up as a colony (as we do with so many others) and left them to it? None of them have left the change (unless to be handled) and no other mousie has been introduced?

Hehe, just musing, mousies are a puzzle sometimes.


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe some of the girly meeces were PMSing when they met the boys :lol: My girls are fine with one another but they hate meeting anyone new. On the other hand though, my beautiful boys from the same litter are absolute sweethearts and love playing with anyone and everyone (they even play with their brothers during free ranging time and they haven't lived together for almost 3 months!)


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## unicorn (Feb 14, 2010)

I assume all of these siamese come from mine originally and I can most certainly say I have never had any aggression in mine whatsoever.


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

Sorry for my mega late response  Unicorn, my mice were from Kallan....dunno if she got her original mice from you.
This mouse is now in with a champers satin boy and the pair get on fine, no fighting etc. I just think i'll keep her away from the male siamese for a while.
I think she was born early June (i think thats what Kallan said, or thereabouts) 
xx


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## unicorn (Feb 14, 2010)

Hi yes Kallan got hers from me. Definately no issue with any of mine here, friendly little critters.


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

mine are lovely to every other mouse they come in contact with, just with eachother they're a nightmare. needless to say they aren't together!


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

unicorn said:


> I assume all of these siamese come from mine originally and I can most certainly say I have never had any aggression in mine whatsoever.


I know none of mine were from you - mine were from a little pet shop wh bred their own. Maybe that's the problem!

I don't blame you for separating them miss.understood. Better safe than sorry if they hate one another so much!


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

lol i think hating eachother is putting it mildly. honestly these two are impossible!!


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## Taegan (Sep 13, 2010)

It looks like a female to me to ... very strange how they are fighting like bucks?


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