# genetic question, about manx mice, mice with no tail.Pics!!



## Cerastes (Aug 16, 2013)

Hello,

can someone help me to anwser a few questions that i have.

I have bred some mice with short tails/no tail.
The funny thing is, it was not on purpose!
I have 4 tricolor females and 1 tricolor male.
I put them together because they are all tricolor...
They all have a long (normal) tail!!
So how is it possible that they have babies with short tails?
One of them has no tail at all, and one of them has a normal tail.

Then i also read that its recessive, but i als have seen some stories that they say its dominant....
I think in this case its not dominant, cause the parents have normal tails...
So its recessive hetrozygoot?? (dont know this word in english, sorry)

please help me!


----------



## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Hmmm, how sure are you that the dam didn't chomp the tails herself? I've certainly had litters like this and the dam was to blame.


----------



## Cerastes (Aug 16, 2013)

because they were born like that!!
I check my mice at least once a day, and i saw that they had that sinds they were 3 days.
(the first two days that a litter is born i leave them alone)

But does anyone (or u?) can answer my questions?

Do both parents are recessive?


----------



## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I'd also assume your doe chomped them, just because you didn't touch them for two days doesn't mean she wouldn't chomp at all. Is this her first litter?


----------



## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

I don't know about the genetics but if you left her for 2 days she probably just ate the tails it's quite common. I'm seriously sure they were probably not born like that but we will never really know


----------



## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

you have no way of knowing if they were born like that if you didn't see the birth, it can be common for does who go ott when cleaning up the babies to accidently nip off tails either completely or partially. Much more likely than actually being born tailless.

the short tail genes on jax labs all seem to be dominant so would need a parent with a short tail.


----------



## candycorn (Oct 31, 2011)

The manx in America is a recessive, but they don't look like that. They have bulbous ends. And the ones that are dom. genes don't have partial tails. Your mother mouse ate those tails.


----------



## Cerastes (Aug 16, 2013)

she had 2 litters before, with an other male, and then the were just fine!

I breed for 6 years, and i have never had this before!

I really dont think that she eat their tails... and IF they eat their babies (i had that 2 times before) then they eat everything, and you can see some blood in the cage....
And also, they never ever had something like a small wound or some thing...so i really dont think is possible...

If both parents have those genes, is it possible then?


----------



## athiena14 (Jun 20, 2013)

to me it looks like the half tails were ones of momma accidently eating the tails. Had a doe do it recently with two of her bubs, has had other litters and never done it and culled others herself


----------



## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

The mouse ate the tails simple as that. It's rare and the parents would have to have it to get it come most likely. We are all saying the same thing. You did not see the birth so she still might of done it. So this is her third litter she should now be retired from breeding


----------



## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Looking at this thread, a breeder describes her manx with partial tails: "The dominant manx gene produces shortened tails of various lengths...if they have a shortened tail b/c of the gene, they are manx. A manx with no tail or a small nub can produce manx babies with nearly full tails."
http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9656&hilit=manx

Here is a thread where there is some discussion over manx, unfortunately the picture links no longer work:
http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11861&p=108178&hilit=manx#p108178

This thread touches on how manx carriers of the recessive kind often end up with kinked tails in the carriers, at least in Australia.
http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10832&p=98803&hilit=manx#p98803

On the list of countries and varieties, one member writes "Australia has recessive manx. US has dominant manx, but it should be listed as rare."
http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10400&hilit=manx&start=10
Which I also found repeated here:
http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10420&p=95271&hilit=manx#p95271

I think to find out what you really have, we start with your location. If it's US, then you could only have the dominant gene, which means one of your parents would have to be manx. Look at their tails. Are they missing any tail bones? Since your doe has had normal litters before, we can assume it wouldn't be her, & we can look at the buck. Has he sired any litters before? If so, & none of them had shortened tails, then we are looking at a case of the mom nibbling too much for whatever reason.

If you're in Australia, then you could have the recessive gene, however, in the links provided an Aussie breeders touch on how the recessive manx in Australia will result in these nubby tails, not the half lengths you have posted above.

Hope this helps! I suppose if you're still not convinced, hold back your does & breed them back to the sire. That being said, some behavioral traits can be inherited, so you might just end up with this super race of tail nibblers, lol.


----------



## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Doesn't matter how many litters a doe has had they could go ott cleaning at any time, I've had does do it one litter then never again, they don't munch the whole baby as its not the same thing as baby eating its just cleaning them has gone a bit to far that time for some reason, When I've had a doe do it there was no blood and the tip was only a tiny bit red for a day or two.

Still more likely than tailess so unless you know your mice come from tailess stock I'd assume nipped tails.
There's nothing wrong with them or mum, why are you so against the idea? u didn't see them untill the third day so you don't know what happened so with out test breeding you can only go by the more likley conclusion untill you know more. 
But id assume if you have been breeding for 6 years you would have had it pop up befor by now if your mice carry it.


----------



## Cerastes (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks Frizzle, that really helps me!

PPValhunds: i breed for my snakes....so i just started with new mice that i have from a kidsfarm ( kidsfarm: a farm where children learn how te handle animals, thats very common in Amsterdam-Holland)


----------



## RavennaHallowed (Jul 6, 2013)

I've had Manx mice, and actually have one at the moment from a current litter. In Australia, It's a recessive gene. So both parents have to carry, and pass on the gene for the Manx to occur. I've NEVER had babies with tails like these, unless they've been bitten off. It DOES look like the doe has eaten the tails. IF after 3 litters, with the same male, these are the only babies with this weird tail lessness, I'd probably rule out genetic causes. But to answer your question, Yes, If both parents carried the genes(It's speculated to be more than one gene which controlles the extent to which the mice are tailless) then it would be possible for them to be true tailless


----------

