# Sudden deaths?



## Vicray (Aug 23, 2016)

I found my two young satin does dead this morning, while the other two in the cage are acting fine! Latte, in a different cage, looks ready to pass aswell..which is not good, since she has a week old litter! Her nannies appear healthy. None of the mice where showing any symptoms yesterday. Latte is lethargic and had a goopy eye, she still moves but is very weak.. the other two looked normal, like they laid down and died.

I've had mice a year and some with no issues, so i have no idea what is going on.. I cleaned both their cages two days ago with the same old bag of bedding i've been using forever, gave fresh water, and fed oxbow rat food. The only thing that i can think of that has changed is that i gave them a bit of royal canin dog food for protein for a few days. Could that have poisoned them? Please help


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Could the bottle of jammed up at all?


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## Vicray (Aug 23, 2016)

It seems to be working fine when i poke it- and Latte had two water bowls on the side. I tried to syringe her pediolyte but she wasn't taking it. I mixed KMR with rice for her but she wouldn't eat.. There is blood around her vent, too. I'm worried about the others now, and her babies.. She's barely moving, not looking good.

I don't have another nursing doe, but i do have a really pregnant one. If i put them in with her could she nurse them? The nannies currently in with them arn't bred, I imagine they won't spontaniously produce milk as helpful as that would be. Sigh


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

I am very sorry to say but Latte really doesn't sound like she'll make it, with blood around the vent its quite possible she was injured while giving birth and just wasn't able to recover from it.

It would likely not be the best idea to put her babies in with the heavily pregnant mum, mice rarely start lactating early and even if she did then the older litter would take the colostrum that would really help give the newer litter a good start, and will be a lot bigger than the new litter so probably out compete the tinier babies, also if she doesn't give birth in the next day or two it will likely be too late 

I can't help with why the other two died. It just seems to be one of those things that has been reported. I have read forums about it in both rats and mice, suddenly dying for no perceivable reason with no symptoms at all. I guess sometimes without an autopsy its just impossible to know but if the only change is adding the dog food then it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution and not feed again although I doubt it would have been that since the other mice are perfectly fine.

I'm really sorry you're going through this (hugs)


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## Vicray (Aug 23, 2016)

Latte just died.. One of the nannies was trying to drag her into the nest- it was a sad sight.  I'm not sure what to do with the babies now. I think for i will leave them with the nannies for now, since i won't be able to hand feed.. I don't want them to starve, but i'll make decisions later. Rough day

Thank you for the help and kind words


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

The kindest thing to do may be to cull them, mice rarely if ever spontaniously lactate although the babies will keep trying to nurse so you will likely see enlarged teats on the nannies anyway from them trying. The most likely outcome is that they will starve to death if not culled first and if by some miracle they do survive they are likely to have lasting issues from the delayed development of missing out on milk and the milk needed for their stage of development.

Again I am sorry, I know these are not easy words to hear and going through a situation like this is incredibly hard.


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## Vicray (Aug 23, 2016)

Aye  Next time i'll have to be sure to have litters closer together. I know its wise to anyway, stupidity on my part.

Little bit of good news though, the pregnant doe had her litter last night. Eight healthy little wigglers, and mom is doing fine  The rest of the mice are still acting normally, so hopefully there was nothing contagious. Threw away the dog food just in case, too.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

I try to have litters close together just in case any mums abandon or anything needs fostering too but sometimes the mice just don't want to play along with me plans so I get one take way before the others and have just enough of a gap its hard to put together.

I hope all goes well with mum and babies and you have no further issues. Good luck  Would love to see pictures if/when you feel like getting any


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## CanuckMousery (Apr 20, 2017)

I am sorry for your losses and I know this topic is old, but do beware of some brands of dog and cat food. Most brands (Yes, most. It's sad.) are poisonous to the dogs and cats they are marketed to, because there is next to no regulations for pet food. Royal Canin, Purina, Beneful, Iams and nearly everything that is heavily advertised and pushed by veterinarians is responsible for the deaths of many cats and dogs due to toxic fillers in the food giving them cancers and organ damage. Good cat and dog foods include Acana, Orijen (the first two are the same producers, but Orijen has more protein), Wellness, Taste of the Wild, Lifetime and Fromm. They contain minimal fillers (if any) and won't kill anything it's fed to. The first two are human-grade.

I know what you're thinking though. "This sounds pricey..." and it is. Very. But at the thought of you buying a $60-$100 bag of pet food, most stores will give you samplers for free that you can use for your mice to supplement protein.

Holy cow, I sound like an ad... but this is my experience working in pet care all my life. Just a long, hopefully helpful note to anyone feeding dog/cat food as a supplement.


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