# What am I going to do now ?



## yyoung

Remember a while back I posted pictures of a boy that had been scragged and I had to separate the boys. Well the one that got scragged is now well and truly pregnant. I thought 'she' was a boy....indeed I have pics of 'her' displaying some very generous male only bits. She is def pregnant as I thought she was fat on Sunday when did a big cleanout. Weighed her and she was 43grams. Just weighed her tonight and she is 50 grams. This is one of my babies. She was only born on March 27th. Obviously I have done a thoroughly crap job of separating them even though I had another breeder help me sex them 3 times. She looks like she has testicles though....well she did. Now she has nipples and an enormous belly. This poor baby is still only 8 weeks old and is obviously ready to give birth and has been impregnated obviously by her juvenile brother. How could I have got this so wrong ? And what the hell am I going to do now ?

Just checked over the pics of when she got attacked and it was 10th May. Assuming she got pregnant around that day then she would be 17/18 days now. Wondered why those 2 boys were getting along fine ? Clearly because it is boy and girl  I am an idiot. I have taken the mr mouse out and left mrs mouse on her own. What else can I do ?

Does this not look like a boy ?










And now ... aged only eight weeks !!!










And just in case there was any doubt about the sex.... (sorry about the wee)


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## Sputnik

Holy cow! :shock: How awful! (S)he went and got a sex change on you!

I just don't know what to say, I hope someone here can help you! I really hope, for both her sake and your sake, that she has *very* few babies in that tummy.


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## sommy

Wow........

That's left me speechless......

Also, your not an idiot, I think everyone would have made that mistake!


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## HemlockStud

> Holy cow! :shock: How awful! (S)he went and got a sex change on you!


I was thinking the same exact thing as I was reading! Anyway, like stated before, that could fool anyone especially since (s)he looked exactly like a male.


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## yyoung

We have babies ......

Don't know how many but I could see at least 7 as she has them out in the open (probably because it is so hot).I've moved her to the other room where she can have peace and quiet. Poor thing  just a baby herself


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## ian

Maybe shes a hermaphrodite 

Make sure to give her lots of lactol and she will be able to feed the babies. I would reduce the litter down (to 3 or 4) if your up for doing that?
She isnt terribly young obviously not the ideal breeding age but it could be a lot worse. Good luck I'm sure she will be fine with a good diet.


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## yyoung

I am so not up for that ! .... I did wonder if I could breed mice but after a chat with some people and some cold hard facts of life I decided it would be better if I just left the breeding to the 'breeders' and I will just buy my mice from them. I just cannot bring myself to do the deed. I have a couple of sick mice and no matter how ill they get I will try to save them. Sorry but it's just the way I am.....can't help it.

On the plus side 'mrs mouse' has always had the best of everything so she must be as fit and healthy as she could possibly be given the circumstances. I have lactol but only normally use it for sick animals....how do I give it to her ? do I need to make it up into milk or sprinkle the powder onto the food ? or both ?

Of course we will then have the sexing to do ....... and we all know how good I am at that :lol:


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## Maplewood Stud

u could sprinkle some on her food, or u could make some up and soak bread in it - thats what i was told. im not sure if ud need to do both though. x


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## ian

Either is good, I find it easier with the number of nursing mice I have to sprinkle it on dry. If you have the time you could soak it up with some bread or make a sort of oat porridge they seem to really enjoy that.

Don't worry about culling, you do whatever you feel comfortable with. I'm sure if the doe struggles to care for all of the babies she may cull then down naturally by herself.


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## Maplewood Stud

just done a bit of reading on the lactol , this sounds gross, but u can even mix her dried food into some premade lactol. u only have to make it up once then  x


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## yyoung

Have sprinkled some dried lactol over her food which I have boosted with extras so hopefully the food will not be an issue.

Whilst feeding her I notice that here is at least one baby in the 'house' whereas the rest are out in the open albeit in a bit of a nest. Wonder why she has one inside the house and the rest outside ...... or maybe I caught her mid move ?

Any tips or advice gratefully accepted....although lets face it is isn't so long since we were here before


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## Maplewood Stud

ur prob right its likely uve caught her moving them inside to keep them warm as its still a bit chilly out at night, but still check on her in the morning just to make sure. another thing it might be is the baby was feeding from her and where shes moved theyve fallen off, either way shell soon round them up x


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## yyoung

Nope ... I didn't catch her mid move. I checked last night and there was one baby on the outer edge of the bundle that was outside. Totally away from the rest and then there is also one baby inside the house. Checked this morning and they are all exactly the same. I did wonder if the one on the edge was dead but it was moving and also the one in the house is moving. The ones in the bundle have full tums but I cant see the other twos tummys.

Do you think I should put the two 'stray' babies back in the bundle or leave well alone ?


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## SarahC

The mother has a vaginal prolapse giving the appearance of testicals.She has probably left the nest while the babies were still suckling and attached and they have dropped off and she doesn't know what to do.I would definately put them in the nest.


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## yyoung

I went back and had another look. The two babies that were outside of the nest were both stuck to the paper. They were quite stuck hard too....I can only imagine the mummy couldn't move them. They were both very cold so I am pleased I have at least put them back in the nest. One was stuck to a load of paper and aubiose and I had to tear the toilet paper around it to free it. It was stuck by the umbilical cord so I gently removed everything that was stuck and put it with the others. The other one was stuck by the back leg but I've had a look and I think the leg is fine ... it must have just been sticky from the birth. There doesn't appear to be any injury. This baby was freezing cold. I've just had another look and mummy is on the nest so hopefully they will all be there with her. Will check up later. Do you think there is any risk now that I've meddled that she will reject the babies or worse still harm them ?

This vaginal prolapse thing... is this common ? when we sexed them there was def no sign of nipples at the time and obviously what looked like testicles so the assumption was made that it was male ( :lol: how wrong was I ?) .

And there was me just a couple of weeks ago telling someone on the forum that I found it easy to tell the males from the females.... From now on I would just ignore everthing I say as I am a total idiot :lol:


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## SarahC

I've had a few with prolapse,Ive got one now.I'll post a picture later.I've also had mice with womb prolapse after giving birth.Thats fatal though.You did a good job to unstick the babies without damage,the skin often rips like tissue ,not very nice.


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## SarahC

Male mammals have nipples,they must not have been very obvious when you looked


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## yyoung

Oh god ... thank god I did it before you told me that. I did have to leave a tiny piece of paper to both of them as it was welded to them. I am hoping the mother will clean it off...assuming they make it as now it is obvious that they've been left almost 24 hours on their own.

Will the mother get anxious if I go and see how they are doing ? They are only 24 hours old. I would like to think mummy mouse is comfortable with me as she was on my hands and having a stroke the morning she gave birth and seemed fine with it. When I picked her out before to unstick the babies she was okay too but I am worried I may push my luck.


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## SarahC

know way of knowing but interference is a risk....


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## yyoung

Ok .... think I will leave her until tonight and then have another look whilst feeding her and only meddle if I think it is necessary. Given that she is a hairless type and chances are she is pregnant to her brother  who is also a hairless type what do you think the babies will be ?


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## SarahC

check the whiskers when you think its safe.Short and curly or none will be hairless or fuzzy,normal straight whiskers will be normal haired mice.I have just got a litter of hairlessxhairless.There are 6 hairless and 3 normal,based on whiskers I have culled leaving the 6 curly whiskered ones.


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## SarahC

this is a bigger prolapse than the one your mouse has but I think you can see it's the same thing,


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## yyoung

I have been in and checked on them and they are all still together. Well I think they are .... I'm not sure if there is one missing or not.

Took a sneaky picture and gave mrs mouse some treats for being so good.

The one second from left is the one that was really stuck up I think. Its quite a bit smaller than the others. Will it catch up ? I cant see the other one anywhere...well either that or it blends well with the others which is good as that means it isn't behind.

Do they look okay ? I only ask as I've not seen them this young as the last two mice I left for three days before looking as they were from pet shop and I'd only had them for 5 days.


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## yyoung

Oh yes .... I can see that. Never even heard of this before. Will it be a problem for her ? I have to say when I found she was pregnant the (ahem ... male bits) seemed much less obvious than before. Does pregnancy change the condition in any way ?


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## Cait

They look like normal babies to me Yvonne - just as they should be at that age. If the paper is ever stuck to a baby in future and you need to remove it rather than leave it for mum the best thing to do is wet it slightly (warm water) so it comes off more easily. Make sure the baby is warm and dry afterwards though. I'd expect a hairless x hairless litter to all be hairless as when I had them it was a recessive gene. However I know Daisy and therefore Sarah seem to have a different gene to what I had so theirs may be different. In your case though I think you have the same kind I had. Oh, and don't worry that it was a brother/sister mating, in one generation they will most likely all be fine though of course that can't be guaranteed with any animal no matter what. If you have any leftovers from dinner the mother will enjoy plain cooked chicken, boiled potato and bread.


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## yyoung

If you look closely at the picture you can see the second from left mouse has a bit of aubiose still stuck to it's leg. Should I leave it ? It was stuck hard mind.

Chicken and potatoes ..... more than I've had today !


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## Cait

Tell me about it - my dinner today has been an apple because I'm not very well. It took me twice as long as usual to clean the mice out :roll: I'd leave the babies now because they seem to be being fed and the mum will probably sort it out.


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## yyoung

I will not be eating until much later as I've to go with my daughter to see my ex husband (her father) who is in hospital. He has had a very awful time lately and he is very lucky to be alive. He hasn't eaten since 8 days ago and he is starving but a complication meant he couldn't have his promised cup of tea today. That should make me not want to whinge about not haven eaten today yet ..... but strangely it doesn't...I want my dinner :lol:


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## Cait

I hope he gets better soon.


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## SarahC

everything and every one seems ill,lets hope the sun brings on the feel good factor.The vaginal prolapse doesn't cause any problem for this doe or previous ones I've had.It's unusual in youngsters but I've had the odd one occur.It's fairly common after child birth ,it happens in women as well but we have ours repaired.Sometimes the vagina is open and you can then see the problem which looks a bit like a fleshy ball.Obviously don't breed her again but other than that I think she will be fine.Babies look healthy to


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## yyoung

Hells flames.... if I have another pregnancy just shoot me. I have not had an intentional breeding...ever ! and yet I still seem to have babies. I think I have an inbuilt radar detection system for sick and pregnant animals :lol:


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## yyoung

I am quite upset today (I know I am a softy but I can't help it).

I found 2 dead babies underneath the nest with the other babies in. They were stuck also like the other two that I freed. Do you think they were all stuck and she was trying to free them ? The other two that I put back in the nest seem to be doing well.

Sorry if these pics are graphic but theses babies look okay to me (apart from being dead that is !). One of them looks like she has tried to pull it as it has marks on its face and head.

I feel bad...for the bubbies and especially for mrs mouse as it must be hard to try and not be able to help your babies. Am I being ridiculous ? Yes of course I am. Shame for them but I suppose it makes life easier for mummy now.

My question is ..... Did these babies die because they were stuck or because mummy killed them ? Is there any way to know ? I am assuming you breeders have seen it all and can tell me.


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## SarahC

They haven't been killed by the mother,probably a combination of weak babies and very young mother.The wounds are just ripped skin from being stuck.They got stuck because the mother didn't clean them after they were born and the gunk glued them to the paper.Just immaturity.Often the babies from these young does don't grow big and strong I'm afraid but thats nature.Good luck with them.


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## Sputnik

I'm so sorry to hear that 

The babies probably died because they were just weak. It's awful to say, but it is probably for the better that they passed now, rather than having to live life as a weak, sickly mouse. Your momma mouse will have an easier time raising the others now anyways. I wish her (and you) the best of luck with the babies.


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## Kage Davies

Oh, stuck babies. Well, I had the joy of finding babies still attatched to their afterbirth by their umbilical cords from my very awful doe. My poor OH had to cut them free, while I held the baby in one hand and the blob in the other... I nearly gave him a heart attack. We only have massive kitchen scissors in the house and a wrong move would have... Well. Anyway.

I caught mine 6 or so hours after birth, and she promptly culled at least two after we intervened (I could see she'd put them all in the wee corner :roll. I took out the rest, fostered two and did the dirty freezer deed with the others.

Perhaps if it was a big litter, she had trouble cleaning each one before the next arrived, and then they got stuck. She couldn't move them, and had the others to look after anyway... And yes, the others will have gotten more food, so should be stronger for it. Not nice, but at least you didn't find a severed head.


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## yyoung

I think you are right and that she just couldn't manage to clean them all as fast as they were arriving. She had at least ten that I know for sure of as she still has 8 and they are doing well. She's only 9 weeks old so still a baby herself. Also she is alone in her box.... no nanny help for her.... so all things considered she is doing well.

They are a week old today and not one of them has fur yet. Some have coloured skin but at least 3 of them are still shiny new ..... no peachy fluff yet and still pink. I'm not worried about them as they look fine but I'm sure with the last two litters by a week old they had some velvety fuzz. Maybe I've forgotten already :lol: Maybe they are going to be more hairless than the other hairless ones..... if that makes any sense at all !!!


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## yyoung

Yep just had a look at week old pics of last litter and out of the 8 4 had fur and 4 didn't ! So I am assuming that this entire litter must be of the hairless type....just look at these baggy baldies :lol:


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## Maplewood Stud

awww theyre gorgeous, and very plump too. mum must be doing a good job!!  x


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## yyoung

I think she has got this motherhood thing sewn up  She goes and feeds them and takes care of them and them she trots back off to her 'home' and leaves them in the nest alone. Perfect if you ask me...time out for herself but looking after babies well also. Long may it continue. Shes happy to come out for a little cuddle as well.


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## Maplewood Stud

there u go, what more could u ask for


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## Kage Davies

I bet she'd make a good nanny then, if you ever do breed again on purpose :3.


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## yyoung

Next weeks lottery numbers ? :lol:


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## yyoung

We have eyes !!!!!

These babies are so cute...... but I have three that are extra cute. They are hairless and white and red eyed..... Wonderful they are but they are much more jumpy than my last lost.

How cute is this then ?????



















Any ideas what this 'type' would be called..... apart from mongrel that is :lol:


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## SarahC

I call mine pink skinned hairless.Some people call them nakeds.I think they are lovely.


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## Maplewood Stud

aww soo sweet :love1 x


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## yyoung

Well some time has passed now and the babies have been separated into what I believe to be boys and girls. I am still uncertain though and really could with some reassurance that I've got this right. I really really don't want any more babies. These pics are not the best but hopefully we might get somewhere.....

Mouse 1.... male almost 100%










Mouse 2... male again almost 100%










Mouse 3... male again 100%










Mouse 4... Female ?










Mouse 5... Female ? (excuse the poo !)










Mouse 6... Female ? (again excuse the poo !)










Mouse 7... Female ?










Mouse 8... Female ?










Please tell me I've got this right as I DO NOT want any more babies. Two of these babies are truly beautiful (well I think they are).... will post pictures of them after you've all sexed them for me :lol:


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## Cait

I think you have got them all right, a good result to have more does than bucks!


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## yyoung

I feel a bit better now then .... A couple of these 'females' have the same sort of bulge between the openings (just like mummy) so I am wondering if its just their genetic make up. I did consider taking these 2 'bulging' females out but I'm glad I haven't if I've got it right as they can all live together. The boys are still together and so far they seem fine but they are still very very young.....plenty of time for the testosterone to bugger up the happy brotherly unit that currentley exists :lol:


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## Cait

If you look at your photos you can see nipples on most of the girls too


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## yyoung

Yes .... I looked very hard for the nipples and they are there on all of the five females. Also they have what I describe as a doughnut shaped punchhole type 'female bits'.... whereas the males don't have that 'hole' so to speak.

I think I am utterley relieved and happy that I've got this right :|


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