# I found satins in the feeder bin, possibly a tricolor male?



## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

I know the two golds, but do you think I have a splashed in the lighter colored female? Also the male is pied, satin, and appears to have two distinct colors on his patches, but I can't tell if he's a pied brindle, or really a tricolor. I thought that the splashed gene was what made true tricolors, but I don't know how to tell the difference.

Can anybody educate me?


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

You're in the US right? If so, they are A^vy brindle which can be anything from solid yellow/gold/orange to looking agouti. The lighter doe may be a blue brindle or some other diluted brindle...it changes the main color to a creamy one. US tricolors will never have the golden hue the buck has b/c the c-dilutions heavily affect yellow pigment.


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## thekylie (Mar 6, 2010)

I see pied brindle on the buck and some sort of dilution on the doe. Does she have stripes too?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I think Piebald brindle, 2 recessive yellows, and a beige.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I see pied brindle, and what are more than likely two undermarked brindles but possibly rys, and a beige, maybe? Do they all have black eyes, or is it just the light? Also, grats on finding satins in the feeder bin. I did as well, and it was a fun mess figuring out all their hidden recessives.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

It's most likely not tricolor.

Stina: Diluted yellow reverts in much the same way any other color would. I have had individuals with cream, pale yellow and orange, both splashed and in tricolor.


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

Ok, I can buy pied brindle on the buck, looking at him in daylight it seems pretty sensible. The light doe I will post more pictures of. I'm starting to think diluted with brindle in there somewhere. She doesn't really have stripes, but the sootyness is uneven over her body.


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

I don't understand really how dilution works genetically. Can anybody explain it? Does that mean that it would be hiding brighter colors in her genetic mix?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Brindling can show out in so many different ways; it's even possible to get brindles that show no dark markings at all, so that they are, in essence,j fawn or red, depending on the eye color.

A dilution is simply a gene (or a combination of genes) that causes the colors of the fur to come out lighter and different. It can come from several different genes, but the C locus is the place where most of the dilutions occur. It's a recessive gene, so you need to have two copies of that gene in order to get a dilution. Albino is c; chinchilla is c^ch, himilayan and siamese are c^ch, c^e is extreme dilution, and they all work individually or together to create different types of dilution that you can see in the fur. There is also a dilution factor in the genes that affect eye color as well, that also alters the color of the fur. There are several other genes that can affect fur and eye color, but I'm not going to write a book in this post. The dilutions work in different ways depending on what they are combined with.

Look at this website; it's loaded with info: http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/index.html


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

I know how diluted yellow works...when it is diluted, it is NEVER bright gold. When it is splashed the splashes can be bright, but the diluted areas never will be.

Even if the doe is more splotchy than stripey I still think brindle....her coloring looks like the blue brindles I've had...blue removes most yellow pigment so end up with a creamy color with grey markings.

I don't think anyone here is recessive yellow...I think they are all brindle (some pied as well) with various amounts of markings and that they lighter doe is a blue brindle (not c-diluted).


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

Ok, so here are some more pics of the light doe. 

































Now that I've seen her in the daylight, she most closely resembles my siamese/himalayan (I never figured that out) in color.
Her eyes are black, though, and the siamese has red eyes.


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

Oh, and ignore the black on her tail. I thought it was some interesting mutation until I saw the bin they came out of. Their bedding was these weird black pellets.


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

She looks merle to me. If you blow into her coat[the parts that appear lighter and more silvery] should have white/silver hairs evenly mixed in with the yellow ones. Yellow merles, especially satins, are some of the hardest to see roaning on. She is definitly not siamese or himilayan.

Whether she is recessive yellow or unmarked brindle I don't think anyone can say for sure with any degree of accuracy because the two are visually the same color. It is also possible for a mouse to be brindle and ry, so test matings may not be as conclusive as with other colors.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Oh wow...she looks COMPLETELY different in those photos than the others...lol I no longer say blue brindle! I'm not sure....her patterning is very odd!


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

Yeah, isn't she a funny critter? I would adore it if she were merle, so I'm trying not to hope too hard for it, so I won't be disappointed. If she gets preggers from being with my new brindle pied, what would the babies look like if she were merle, rather than brindle? Would I be able to tell then?

I could also go for a long shot and put her with my merle male and hope really hard for merley babies.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I don't think she's merle at all.
She looks like a c dilute of some kind, maybe on brindle or maybe on agouti. I have something very similar looking here that is a pink eye diluted agouti brindle satin.


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

Wow, yours sounds really neat. I'm going to see what she produces with my brindle boy and then try to unravel her mystery further. I think she's purty no matter what she is.

I got a nice surprise today when I took my extra babies into the pet store and realized that one pretty gold girl from my silvers had been a subtle merle this whole time. I'm so excited. I took her home with me of course.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Stina said:


> I don't think anyone here is recessive yellow...I think they are all brindle (some pied as well) with various amounts of markings and that they lighter doe is a blue brindle (not c-diluted).


I agree. For some reason I say RY when i mean undermarked or un-marked brindle. @[email protected]


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

Thats entirely possible. I do think they still COULD be recessive yellow, just because there were a bunch of unrelated mice in the bin, so there is a possibility that they are no relation to the buck, or the beige doe.


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

Ticking on c-diluted agoutis usually isn't white/silver it's usually brown, which is why it is so hard to make a chinchilla/silver agouti from scratch. Her ticking is very silver/white which is why I think she is merle. Also if she was agouti she wouldn't have areas that were not ticked.

I'd breed her to the merle buck, if you get all merle babies then she's merle, if you also get brindles she's unmarked brindle. With the pied brindle buck there are just so many possibilities, especially with unknown recessives, it would be very hard to list them all and what they could mean for her genotype.


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## Galaxy (May 25, 2011)

She is very beautiful and I think personally that black eyed looks better for her than red or pink. I am speaking from a pet perspective. Also your pied satin buck is extremely gorgeous!


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## dwellsinshells (Feb 23, 2011)

Thank you all for the help and compliments. I like the new guys a lot. I will give the beige doe some time away from the pied buck and if she isn't pregnant yet, I'll move her in with my merle boy. I am still working on names for all the new mice. Might go with martha jones for this girl.


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