# Genetic questions



## Awaiting_Abyss (Nov 19, 2012)

I really just need help learning what is dominant and what is recessive to what? Also, I don't know the letters that represent everything.

Does Pp represent black/pink eyes like it does with gerbils? I'm assuming pink/red eyes are recessive to black like other rodents.

Is the "agouti colors" dominant to "non-agouti colors?" So would that be similar to the white bellied (AA or Aa) verses self bellied (aa) gerbils?

Does pied have a different genetic code than belts and bands, etc? I recall someone said once that two pied mice would have all pied pups, but I bred a pied mouse with a mouse with a belt and got half pied and half solid. 
Along with the pied thing- Does that mean the pied mice are different from other spotted rodents? For example, with the spotted gene represented as Spsp, you get a spotted gerbil. If you breed that gerbil with another spotted gerbil, you get Spsp offspring and spsp (solid) offspring. SpSp is a lethal combo so the fetus gets absorbed and isn't born.

Sorry for so many references to gerbil genetics.. I know probably many people don't know gerbil genetics on here. I know gerbil genetics quite well, so its easier for me to use comparisons.


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## Oakelm (Oct 17, 2009)

Best bet is to start with this site as your along the right lines with black/pink eyes and agouti/non agouti as you get several degrees in variation within a single loci

http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/genetics/chart.html

This is a europe site so some colours are called different thing on there than would be in the UK or US and some genes do and dont exist in certain countries but gives you a grasp of it and transfers your knowledge from gerbils as I have a gerbil background so i jumped gerbil to reptiles to mice on genetics as you just get used to certain things through the years.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Pp is black eyes carrying pink, yes.

Dominance in the A-series is complicated. Generally, you're looking at Ay Avy A at a (in that order). But! The soot on an Ay will be a different color depending on the other gene the mouse carries (and Ay is homozygous lethal). Avy will have stripes of a different color depending on what the other gene is. A can have a tan belly if the second gene is at, but is indistinguishable between AA and Aa. I'm unsure of the corresponding gerbil genetics, but it sounds like a similar situation with at.

Pied, belted, and banded are all separate genes, along with a few others that have sorta-pied appearances, like rumpwhite, hereford, and variegated. Pied is the most common, with S being self and s being spotted. It is not homozygous lethal like the corresponding gerbil gene. That actually sounds more like variegated, which is homozygous lethal, and which has a different sort of pattern. Belted is recessive, while banded is dominant (and more common), but either pattern could be reproduced with a pied mouse. Your situation sounds like you bred a pied ss with a banded that carried pied Wbd* Ss, resulting in some pied and some self pups. You should have also gotten some banded pups, however. If you didn't get any banded pups, you may have been looking at belted, which is recessive. Breeding a self pup to the banded/belted parent would produce half selfs and half belted, if that were the case.

If you're on Facebook, there's a gerbil girl who's also newly getting into mice, Moonstone Gerbils/Mice aka Katie. She's still coming to grips with the mouse genetics, but she could be a good person to talk to about what's the same vs what's different.


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## Awaiting_Abyss (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm not on facebook, but I know Moonstone from the Gerbil Forum.

Do banded mice have varying width bands? The mother had a small band, which is why I thought she was belted (she was either a champagne and tan or a lavender and tan? I'm not sure which). Four of her first litter were black and tan at their head and rump with a large white section from their neck/shoulders to their haunches. Three of the four had white spots on their head. The three others in the litter were two solid blacks and one unmarked black and tan. 
I did breed her with one of the black and tan bucks with the white on him. The litter with him she had a chocolate and tan buck with a very, very thin line of white around his waist.

Thanks for the replies. You have both helped quite a bit.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Band width is variable, yes; anywhere from a minor sash to a thick double-band is totally reasonable. It does sound like you're dealing with a mix of pied and banded.


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