# What will I end up with? Varigated x merle



## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

Two weeks ago (well, actually, 16 days lol) I decided to pair my merle male that I got back in...November,I believe, anyway, He's always been kinda frumpy and just, well, ugly looking to be honest, he's small, has a poor coat and I believe has some sort of metabolism thing going on because he eats ALL the time. BUT he's not "sickly", never has been and is extremely active, runs on his wheel for half the day before collapsing and looking dead lol.

Anyhoo, I paired him with a black self rex who has varigated in her lines (in fact, her father was varigated), I did this as a test pairing just to see if the merle male had any interest at all in the ladies as I do have a young roan doe I want to breed him to in a couple weeks, provided she picks up in size by then. (he does, they mated the almost immediately after I paired them, so the babies are due on the 3rd.

I have no idea on the males genetics beyond him being a merle.

So, any ideas on what these will look like? lol I'll be happy so long as I don't get all varigated -_-


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Variegated is dominant so if the female is a black self it doesn't matter if her sire was variegated she won't habe the gene for it so you won't get any in her litter.

Know nothing of murle so can't be of help there.

However if you suspect the buck has a health problem (The some sort of metabolism thing and the collapsing after exercising) he realy shouldn't be bred from as you risk passing the problem on to his offspring or having it pop up later on in the line.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

It's hard to say with the merle genes, there are dominant roan and recessive "roan-like" genes. Without test breeding or data on the ancestry of the mouse, you won't know which you have.

I agree with PPVallhunds, breeding this mouse is a bit of a risk. I would suggest you don't home any mice from his litter and keep a close eye on their behaviour as they age


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

So is dominant merl actually roan then sarah? 
Could only find info on one site that said know one knows what it is but think it's some wears type of roan.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Merle needs a roan gene to work, like splashed needs a c-dilute. As far as I'm aware there are dominant roan and recessive roan (roan-like) genes but I don't know whether there are two separate merle genes; one for each type of roan, or if a single merle gene works on both of them.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Ah so merl is desperate gene that only seems to work if the roan gene is there to. Intresting. Thanks


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Merle in the US is a recessive gene, and our roan and merle are basically the same thing. Like an American Brindle, US merles can be undermarked (roan) or overmarked (black). There is no extra gene necessary to get the splotting in good proportions, unless it's some sort of kfactor modifier.

Breeding merle to vari, you'd get half vari and half self. Breeding those resultant varis together, you'd get some merle vari, some black vari, some merle, and some self. Breeding the selfs together, you'd get some self and some merle.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

According to AFRMA's mouse genetics book, American merle is technically recessive roan-unstable. It is a single gene which can sometimes cause simple roan (mouse is 100% ticked) or merle (ticked with solid-colored patches). The black patches are caused by the "instability" of the gene, basically patches of the coat are solid bc the ticking gene randomly fails to be expressed in certain places. A true merle may produce roan-like merle and vice versa, tho in my experience it is much easier to get roan-like merle from a merle than a true merle from a roan-like mouse. I believe they refer to the fully ticked mice that come from ro^un (roan unstable) as roan-like merle to distinguish them from other roan genes which do not produce the solid merle patches.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Ah, very interesting, thank you.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Wow confusing lol is there a good site that explains about US colours in depth? Finnmouse I think only has the brindle. Would like o lurn more about ressive yellows effect on diffrent coloirs


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Recessive yellow is phenotypically identical to Ay, save that it generally isn't of as good of quality (likely purely due to breeding, not any genetic inability).


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