# First litters! What a busy boy we have!



## fayefleetwood (May 28, 2013)

So, we introduced our little boy (Fang) to our 2 girls (Molly and Daisy), 3 weeks ago yesterday (Sun 14th July). A week ago (after a week of Fang in with the girls, and a week of our other boy, Hagrid being in with the girls), we noticed Daisy was growing rapidly, and by Wednesday she had the golf ball look and was nesting/hoarding. We estimated she would give birth on Saturday/Sunday (3rd August) as this was the earliest dates we could expect, being 21 days from when the first boy was put in. We also noticed Molly was developing a little belly, and estimated her birth date to be around next weekend (10th/11th Aug) as she was far from the golf ball stage and hadn't started nesting yet and was still incredibly active, climbing the cage bars etc.

Anyway, we were spot on with Daisy! She gave birth Saturday night to 10 healthy looking pups. There were no stillborns and Daisy was feeding and keeping them warm. We were pretty happy with this - we expected around 6 pups for a first litter, and had prepared ourselves for a few deaths.

Molly still wasn't at the golf-ball stage, so we decided to split the new Mum and bubs away from the expecting mum - didn't want to risk any of Mollys pups being orphaned when they were born because she was too busy helping Daisy with hers, and we were expecting the birth to be more than a couple of days apart so... that happened.

Came home from work for lunch today and Molly climbed up her cage bars as usual to say hi, and I noticed the belly she had was gone! I panicked thinking that maybe she'd lost them all, but no! 7 alive and wriggly pups! No stillborns again! Couldn't believe it. She didn't look even half as pregnant as Daisy, and she wasn't as heavy either (Daisy got to a point where if she tried to climb the cage bars, she'd slide down).

So, our first ever litters seems to have gone really well! And so did the girls for their first litters.

My partner is pretty impressed at our boy as well. Because of the timing of both births, we know that all pups are fathered by Fang, and that he mated with both girls within the first 24 hours of being put in with them!

We are really very happy with the result. We've heard so many stories about mice not wanting to mate or taking a long time to mate, does having stillborns on their first litters, does dying with first litters... all sorts.

Fingers crossed all continues to go well and we will have hopefully contributed to a future of healthier lines, on the first try!

Will post pics when they are a few days old - aside from making sure Mums are feeding, pups are alive, and giving them a very gentle stroke for a few seconds a day (want to get the hand-friendliness down to a 'T'!), we are staying out of the way until things settle down. 

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions on previous board sections - It is always much appreciated!


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

Congrats 

You may want to reconsider doing the two male breeding in the future. There is the "bruce effect", which may cause female rodents to abort when introduced to another male during pregnancy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_effect

If you want to use both males, just use one female for each then you can reintroduce the ladies if you want.


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## fayefleetwood (May 28, 2013)

Oh really?! Thanks! Ill bear that in mind next time. I was checking the girls daily for signs of the plug etc and the only reason why I switched boys was because I thought the first hadn't mated. Thankfully that didn't happen!


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

You won't allways see a plug, never seen one with my mice


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

Yep. I keep a spread sheet of when females are added & remove on day 14. Some I can tell then, some take a few more days to start showing.

If a doe is having issues getting pregnant, then you would use the bruce effect. Introduce to one male for a short period then swap with another male for a longer period.


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## fayefleetwood (May 28, 2013)

Quick check... separation of genders is no later than 4 weeks right? I'm guessing that means they are fully weaned off mum by then? And also... sexing... when will I be able to tell the difference between the girls and boys parts? At the moment they all look the same!! Haha.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

At 4 weeks the boys should be separated from the girls, but you can choose to leave the young does with the mothers for longer if you want. Some people don't separate does until closer to 6 weeks. The boys can go in another tub together until you need to pull one/them for breeding or they start bickering 

I hate sexing babies. Gets easier for me after they get bigger. Have had some very feminine males recently -.-


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Sexing can be done from day 1 by looking at the distance between the anus and genitals, male bigger gap girls small gap, when the fur start coming in at around 7 days you will start to see nipples on the female, males don't have them.

Normally bucks are removed at 4 weeks, I tend to do 4-5 weeks. Does can stay with the mother as long as you want.

I prefur to Waite till 7-8 weeks befor re homing young to make sure they get over the stress of coming off mum befor leaving. But everyone has there own ideas on when they can go to new homes.
I keep litter bucks together untill up to 12weeks when I make my final pick on who is staying, normally they start scrapping after that age with mine but some have had to be split up earlier for fighting.


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## fayefleetwood (May 28, 2013)

Another quick question... babies are over 2 weeks old now... starting to eat solid food, running around etc... can I move both litters in together. Both mums (who are sisters) seem to miss each other. Whenever I open ones cage to fill food bowls etc, they'll always climb to the other ones cage and they'll try to clean each other through the bars...

Is 2 weeks too early to put litters in together?


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