# gerana's mice



## gerana (Jul 21, 2009)

Here is something from my mousery.  Because I have a quite collection, I introduce only a few mice 

Cyra's North Country, sh bone (or as you know cream), female









Kun oli ääni kummanlainen, sh bone (cream), female









World In A Rain Drop, sh pew, female









Rapunzel's Flight Of The Phoenix, shs pei, male









Rapunzel's The Sunshine State, shs pei, female









A cup of black  (note: non of our blacks aren't a^e/a^e. Only a normal a/a.. I really would like to have someday extreme black mice to Finland)









Sanders Soundy, sh black, female









Sanders Afrodite, shs black, female









Sanders Artemis, shs black, female









Star Circus, shs black, male









And some pet mice..

Noddyn Fulvius Taurus, shs dove tan, male









Family, shs black broken mm, male









Täysikuun Sello, sh black fox, male









-Kaisu

(edit: One variety was named wrong.)


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I adore those blacks!!! They are amazingly good for not being extreme, they must have been worked on very very well!!

Can I steal your Ivory satins please? I need some desperately! hehehe

Willow xx


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I love the broken black, they are nice. And yes, the normal blacks are almost unbelievable dark. Lovely mousies!


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Good work! It always makes me happy to see people with mice who are obviously bred toward standard, and Finnish mice are some of the very nicest I've ever seen.


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## violet1991 (Oct 3, 2008)

phwore!!! Loving the blacks and that broken!! oh yum <3


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## gerana (Jul 21, 2009)

WillowDragon said:


> I adore those blacks!!! They are amazingly good for not being extreme, they must have been worked on very very well!!


Thank you  We surely have one breeder (Sanders) who has been breeding blacks many years.


WillowDragon said:


> Can I steal your Ivory satins please? I need some desperately! hehehe


Haha, sure. It's just a bit too long way to come and steal 

*Jack Garcia:* You are right. ...Maybe we who have mice like these breeds mice too seriously :lol: But still.. It's fun to take it so


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## Raindropmousery (Jan 10, 2010)

Love the blacks, black and white broken and the fox nice mice


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## icedmice (Oct 4, 2009)

Drools....*makes grabby hands at black mice.*


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## podcreature (Mar 26, 2010)

yikes! like coal! hard to believe they are regular a/a, you've set me a real example there..!

all of them are beautiful, thank you for sharing!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I had read somewhere that the extreme gene isn't separate from the a locus, but is the sort of thing that requires conservation, as it is an additive factor. Any cross outside the line dilutes the extreme factor. some color factors are like this in other mammals as well, especially, I suspect, with eumelanin based hues.

You are very close to having a real 'e', unless I am sorely mistaken. I should go ask Rapunzel; she a fount of info, as are her compatriots.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

If you can find WF Hollander's "An extreme non-agouti mutant in the mouse," it discusses the a(e) allele and its place at the very bottom of the A-locus. I used to have a paper copy somewhere, but I have no idea where I've placed it. 

I suspect that good a/a and ae/ae have an area of overlap in terms of how they look, but they are separate alleles as the article discusses. I also suspect (but couldn't prove) that many good a/a mice are also U/U (i.e. umbrous). The few proper "very dark" blacks I've produced have been U/* or U/U.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

The map is not the territory. Black comes in many shades; all the alleles are in the same location, differing only by composition as to how much pigment concentration is manufactured. The modifier is the unique composition, not a separate component. The true is same of other colors as well. The thing that determines the appearance is a chemical and positional difference, not something discrete like a wooden block. The observed change reflects the position and shape of the chemicals in the genetic material, which in turn changes the size, and/or shape and/or position of the granule that contains the pigment. the modifier in question may not even be on the same segment of DNA as the locus it affects.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Found it:



W.F. Hollander and John W. Gowen said:


> ...it is clear that the extreme non-agouti type is a new allele in the A-series, rather than an incidentally incorporated modifier...


taken from _An Extreme Non-Agouti Mutant in the Mouse_, The Journal of Heredity, v.47 p.222.

The article also discusses how the original mutation was first discovered and why it cannot be a crossover of some sort.

If you'd like, I can see if I can't scan and email you the whole article.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Send it to me please!!! I found it online, but have to pay for it... for poor people like me, thats no fun!

W xx


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Ok. I will need to scan it tomorrow. It's in my college's library and I don't think I'll have time after work today.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Beware of copyright laws.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Thanks. As you know, I'm very aware of copyright laws, with my work background. Distributing an article for private use, and for educational purposes, is legal as long as one person has paid for the information (and I have, through my membership to the library). It would be illegal only if I were charging WillowDragon money or if I were claiming that I wrote the article.


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