# what would you breed with..



## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

a tricolor? say you only have one tricolor, what would you breed it with in order to get more tricolored mice? thankssss!


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

anybody? i might be able to get a tricolor and i'd like to breed for more


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

It depends on the type of tricolor. What are the tricolor's genetics (the one you're getting)?

There are many different kinds with all different types of genes at play.


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

im not sure the genetics. ive been talking to someone that is breeding some so i might get one of the babies or they might have an adult right now. i dont know what type of tricolor they are. so then what would be like a general thing to breed tricolors with?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

There isn't one, unfortunately. The types of tricolor vary a lot and no one element is the same for all kinds. The kind that moustress breeds are different from the ones that WillowDragon is trying for (just as an example) and share nothing in common other than recessive white spots, but all tricolors don't even have recessive white spots. You need to know the genetics. Any good breeder can tell you (at least approximately, usually the exact) the genetics of their mice.


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

haha im not sure the person who has them knows. they said they found them at work (reptile specialist haha). so thats why i was just wondering. i have a pic of one on my phone. it looks to have a lot of white. it has a black spot around one ear and a tan spot next to it and then a tan spot on its butt. thats all i know


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

It sounds like a black tan with some sort(s) of spotting. Breeding it to any spotted mouse would potentially produce a "tricolor" of this type.

Needless to say, it's always best to adopt from people who know what their mice are and may or may not carry, if at all possible.


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

ya its not really possible to find a good breeder here. ive looked all over! even the pet stores dont carry "fancy" mice anymore. thats why ive been getting mine at a family owned pet store with lots of pretty feeders. i dont think im gonna get a tri from this person anyway. if they were lucky enough to find a tricolored feeder then maybe i will be too


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I think you might be confusing two things. Please tell me if I'm wrong. I could be. 

A mouse with three colors is technically a "tricolor" (what the AFRMA calls "broken multi"). This can be achieved in literally dozens of ways, from a broken black tan, to a variegated brindle, to a blue roan fox, to a banded sable, to to a rumpwhite American brindle, to a dutch x-linked brindle, and many, _many_, more combinations. Your mouse sounds like a broken black tan (one of the more common types of three-colored mice). Pictures will probably help confirm that. All of these mice are limited as to where the different areas of color usually appear. For example, a broken black tan can have yellow/orange fur ONLY on the belly and lower face.

The splashed gene (Spl/*) can also create a tricolor and when most people in the US or UK say "tricolor," they mean this. This mouse is not limited in what color can appear where. A mouse who is a splashed-based tricolor would have two lower c-alleles which are not both "c" (albino), plus Spl/*, plus some form of white spotting. Only a few people in the world have these (all in the US except for my good friend in Germany who recently did an import) and it's true that they do get the best contrast between black and beige areas. I owned a couple and like any marked variety they have numerous common faults and can prove very difficult to breed properly. To confuse matters, some people who use the Splashed gene (Spl/*) call this the "transgenic" gene and refer to all tricolors as transgenic, and while Splashed _is_ transgenic, it is not the only transgenic kind of mouse (ask moustress! ) and all tricolors aren't splashed/transgenic.

The term "tricolor" is much more complicated than it first appears, even if you don't take into account the different ways it can be shown.

Perhaps you could guess this, but I am currently writing a long article with pictures and illustrations about the many ways to get three-colored mice. It will _hopefully_ be published via my club's newsletter this month or April...probably April as I'm so busy lately. lol


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

haha wow that is a lot of information to take in at once. haha but thank you! im not sure which one im talking about but here is the picture that the "breeder" sent me










the kind of tricolor i'd like to get are the splashed kind but since you said they are really rare then i guess i might not be able to haha


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Now I'm thinking an American brindle with a lot of recessive white spotting. The tail on that mouse is very thin and shows severe dehydration or other health issues, btw.

I really hate to sound so discouraging, but it also appears they're keeping mice on pine shavings, which is very bad for their respiratory systems as I'm sure you know. Since you said the person is involved with reptiles, I'm betting that s/he doesn't even realize that pine shavings are bad for small animals. A lot of reptile keepers seem to use pine because it's the cheapest and never really think about it. I mean, it makes sense that if stores sell it, it should be healthy for the pets, but unfortunately that's not always the case.


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

ya im not gonna get any mice from them. ive seen other pics and they dont keep their mice in very good conditions. definitely a feeder breeder that doesnt care too much about the mice. its just so hard to find places to get mice here


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

That sucks. I know when I was first looking for mice I traveled far and wide to find any that were healthy. The US is such a huge country that if you live in Arizona (or Kentucky, or Montana, or lots of other places) you can be hundreds or thousands of miles away from any decent breeder. *sigh*


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

its so difficult! haha. when i was younger i got my mice from petco and they were only sometimes healthy. but at the reptile store (if i go on sunday which is when they get their mice) they are all so healthy looking! which i definitely wasnt expecting. i think i need to find out who they get their mice from! maybe that person has nicer mice that they keep for themself? i'll have to find out next time i go


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

You'd be surprised. One time I went to a reptile show and I found some measly, sickly, heavily parasitized PEW mice that were literally quite close to death and had only hamster food and water in their bin. Of course they were on pine. Then another time I found some large, healthy, robust shiny mice of a few different colors (recessive yellow, brindle, black, chocolate) which were nothing fancy (pardon the pun) but were in generally healthy mice. They were kept on sani chips and had lots of lab block, apple, and water in their bin. So it really does vary. You might also check a place like craigs list. Often people who have reptiles for sale will know where you can get healthy mice, since healthy mice make better food for their animals.


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

ive breen checking craigslist for weeks haha but there just dont seem to be any people with mice here. i checked another state just to compare and there were lots of people with mice. i just dont get it! haha. oh well i guess i'll just have to live with it for now. at least i have a nice reptile store with good mice. that'll be fine for now. i was thinking of maybe taking home some pinkies when my mice give birth and try to get them to foster them. do you think i could try that?


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend it, no.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

You could try it, but it would probably not work. If you're interested in that, it would probably be easier to buy a pregnant female. At least that way you don't run the risk of having the original litter plus the new babies eaten.

When I mentioned craig's list I meant not to look for mice postings but reptile postings, and ask the reptile people. That's what I'd do, but then again I'm known to be a weirdo.


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

haha ive tried that but they all eat frozen :| . and i wanted to buy a pregnant female but i cant tell if they are pregnant. the black one i got might be pregnant but i cant really be sure. i remember the first mouse that i bred was sooo skinny and didnt even look pregnant. the nanny with her was fatter than her! and then she gave birth to 2 babies haha.

do you think it would be possible to get a pregnant female with a litter of babies at the "fuzzy" stage? cuz they keep the fuzzy and pinkie feeders with their mamas. i know its probably extremely risky but i wouldnt mind trying it


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't know. I don't think I'd try it, though.


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## nanette37 (Feb 1, 2010)

maybe i'll only give it a try if the babies are extra special haha


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