# Recessive yellow effect on yellow hairs?



## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

So recessive yellow dilutes black hairs to yellow... What effect does it have on yellow hairs? Does it have little effect, like bb, a medium dilution effect like dd, or does it wash out the colour, like some c-dilutes? Or, does it strengthen the colour in yellow hairs?


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Anyone? One of the reasons I'm interested in this is because I'd like to know what a recessive yellow agouti looks like. If the black part of the hair is diluted to yellow, and the yellow tips stay the same, you could have a "hidden" agouti. If the yellow tips are also diluted, it could be an interesting mouse - yellow base and white tips to the hairs.

I'm just curious.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm sorry, I misunderstood the original post! I thought you were asking what effect recessive yellow would have on a dominant yellow mouse (Ay/* e/e) and I didn't know the answer (although I suspect it would have no discernible effect).

Recessive yellow works on agouti in exactly the same way as dominant yellow; an agouti based recessive yellow would just look self yellow.


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks for that.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

An agouti recessive yellow would be very sooty... so it would have a yellow undercoat, but the top and back would have dark hairs, almost like umbrous, on top. To get a non-sooty RY, breed chocolate into the line. I have tons of mice that show this, but no pics right now, sorry. Also, pied mice tend to be less sooty than their solid counterparts.


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Autumn2005 said:


> An agouti recessive yellow would be very sooty... so it would have a yellow undercoat, but the top and back would have dark hairs, almost like umbrous, on top. To get a non-sooty RY, breed chocolate into the line. I have tons of mice that show this, but no pics right now, sorry. Also, pied mice tend to be less sooty than their solid counterparts.


Thanks for that info!

I wonder why the sooty colour (black hairs or ticking on hairs, right) isn't diluted by the recessive yellow whereas the normal black hairs are. Strange also because the sooty hairs are diluted by the chocolate, which is also recessive.

I'm not breeding them, btw. I'm just curious. We don't have recessive yellow here, but if we did I'd specialise in them! I think they have so much potential, without the obesity of Ay mice.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

MojoMouse said:


> Autumn2005 said:
> 
> 
> > An agouti recessive yellow would be very sooty... so it would have a yellow undercoat, but the top and back would have dark hairs, almost like umbrous, on top. To get a non-sooty RY, breed chocolate into the line. I have tons of mice that show this, but no pics right now, sorry. Also, pied mice tend to be less sooty than their solid counterparts.
> ...


The sooty effect occurs on dominant red as well, but just because a red (dom or rec) is agouti doesn't mean it'd be sooty. Some UK showlines of red are agouti based, not cinnamon or chocolate, and they have lovely colour. Like with any other fault on any other variety, it's all about selective breeding


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I love RYs, and specialize in them here! Strangely, most breeders in my area hate RYs because they're not in the show book, or something like that, so they always have these ugly sooty mice they practically throw away. I have some lovely non-sooty satin RYs, unfortunately the type is pure rubbish!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I was thinking about specializing in RY but the only two other breeders I've come across (one posted here recently) have RY so...it's best to pick a colour that no one else is doing right? At least if you want to rehome a few? Good to note re: chocolate, as I need to pick a new buck in the next few months and didn't know what colour to pick. Chocolate sounds great!

That said, I know most of you only cull or give to other breeders. Just something I was thinking about.


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Do the other breeders have recessive yellow selfs? If not, they'd be a great project. You could work to get them a brighter, deeper yellow with good type. They'd be stunning!  They'd also be good breeding partners with choc, from what's been said here.



> so...it's best to pick a colour that no one else is doing right? At least if you want to rehome a few? Good to note re: chocolate, as I need to pick a new buck in the next few months and didn't know what colour to pick. Chocolate sounds great!
> 
> That said, I know most of you only cull or give to other breeders. Just something I was thinking about.


I rehome a lot of my females as pets! I try to breed mice that are popular as well as being part of my projects. At the moment I can offer choc, blue, black and BE cream. I'd LOVE to be able to have a yellow mouse to complete the mini rainbow line up of selfs.  I just won't breed fatso Ay mice though, so I wish I had the recessive yellow.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

MojoMouse said:


> Do the other breeders have recessive yellow selfs? If not, they'd be a great project. You could work to get them a brighter, deeper yellow with good type. They'd be stunning!  They'd also be good breeding partners with choc, from what's been said here.


WHY DID I NEVER THINK OF THIS???? :shock: :shock: :shock:

I've always kept my chocolate lines separate from my RY lines, have never crossed them... but of course this makes perfect sense! By crossing chocolate X RY, I'll know what the color base of the RY is! If I get blacks or agoutis, well that's it, isn't it? But to get lovely chocolates, and lovely non-sooty RYs... I'm drooling already, thinking of my lovely babies to come!

I do have a question about RYs though. How does it interact with the tan (at) gene? I've seen RYs with paler bellies, but nothing I would ever point to and say "this is definitely tan, no doubt about it." Recently, though, I breed a chocolate and a RY together, and weirdly, I got three siamese out of the litter! And the other two ended up being a weird c-dilute RY, oddly looking, but still pretty. Anyway, two of the siamese turned out to be foxes! The mom is the chocolate, no question that she's the tan, which only leaves the RY dad. Has anyone else had a similar experience?


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## Au Naturel (Jun 8, 2012)

Autumn2005 said:


> I love RYs, and specialize in them here! Strangely, most breeders in my area hate RYs because they're not in the show book, or something like that, so they always have these ugly sooty mice they practically throw away. I have some lovely non-sooty satin RYs, unfortunately the type is pure rubbish!


Would love to see pics?  Im not much of a genetics geek but which colors are RY?


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