# The Young Men of Blackthorn Stud



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Here are the best of the male mice I am currently running on:

My chocolate Dutch twins. Aged nine weeks old and already turning into quite chunky little men. You can see how docile these guys are, they're quite happy to sit on the floor unrestricted and have their photo taken - the reputation for wildness in Dutch mice is about to be crushed, it's definitely down to husbandry not genes  :lol:





































A silver tan buck, aged 5 weeks. The best juvenile tan I've ever produced, I'm really pleased with him. He's a little on the small side at the moment, but I'm feeding him up:




























An agouti buck from my agouti/cinnamon tan line and then his cinnamon brother, aged 6 weeks. I haven't managed to produce any agouti tan bucks yet, as it's an heterozygous variety you have normal agoutis in every tan litter - but as it's an heterozygous variety it doesn't really matter:





































PEW Abyssinian male, aged 9 weeks. Rosettes all the way up his body, not the best shaped rosettes but good coverage and they are symmetrical when viewed from above, which in my mind is very important for Abyssinians. You can see that although his ears aren't that big, they are correctly set at 10 to 2, which I'm extremely pleased about as these small improvements to type are difficult to make without setting the rosettes back too much. The last picture is rubbish I know, but it shows how friendly my lads are; they just hop straight on my hand.




























Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I want them... every single one of them. Please? hehehe i'm actually quite taken by that Agouti boy, he has a lovely chunky head!!
The pictures of the dutch, that last pic looks like the tail has been nipped?

W xx


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Mwhahaha, they're all mine!!! :twisted: :lol:



> The pictures of the dutch, that last pic looks like the tail has been nipped?


What'cha on about, woman? His tail is fine!

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Hmmm... I think you should send him down to me, just so I can make sure. Don't worry, I promise i'll send him right back! :shifty


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sarah xxx


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## MouseHeaven (Oct 25, 2010)

They are absolutely stunning, wish I had a pair of those


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

I love the tan mousie :love1: He is beautiful!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

The chocolate dutch is adorable. the silver tan's tan is wowie!; and the agouti boy isjabsolutely gorgeous. You took enough pictures to show that he has a niceeven tone overall, and the tops of his little toes are colored too! Wonderful. I love agoutis, anyway, even when they're not show quality, and this one is a treat!

I'm dreaming of a chocolate tricolor with chocolate on one side of the head and black on the other. It would be nice to see one, and I've had a couple of mousies who were close. I think it would be really neat.


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

You may develop a different opinion of the temperament of Dutch mice when you have bred one hundred litters instead of one, Sarah.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, maybe!

Sarah xxx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

they are shaping up nicely.Seek out Iain Scott at Harrogate and ask to have a look at his agouti tans,they really are something along with Smith and Hollis' silver tans.It gives a clear idea of what to aim for.I knew when I handled the Smith and Hollis silver that there was much work to do on my tans,I thought mine were quite nice until I clapped eyes on theirs.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks Sarah, will do! 

Sarah xxx


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Those are some handsome young fella's you have there! I find it amazing that you can breed to improve the marking on mice like your Dutch. 
I love your Silver/Tan, What a little stunner!


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

Looking at the picture (never can be sure) it looks to me like the silver tan is on a par with S&H's tans to me. Good feet, strong tan, really nice mouse.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

:shock: Really?! That's quite a compliment Phil, thank you! 

He has an tiny ear chip (you can see it in the first picture), so I won't be showing him unfortunately, but I have sisters of his for showing that are very similar in colour and type.

Sarah xxx


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## minibears (Jul 30, 2010)

lovely mice


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## countrygall721 (Oct 26, 2010)

Such beauties! I cannot help but to love them all! :love1


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## webzdebs (Mar 29, 2010)

gorgeous mice, I have to admit I like the tan and the dutch


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

What is the genetic background of Dutch? Is it an own mutation (what is the gene-code?) or is it a selection of Piebald?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I am actually looking into that myself Roland! I'm am doing a few test matings to work out the genetics behind Dutch.

Not much is known for sure. We know that if you outcross to self and breed the resulting offspring together you will have Dutch offspring. They will obviously have poor markings, but they will be recognisable as Dutch with cheek patches and a saddle. So, in my opinion, either Dutch has it's own gene (which rabbit fanciers call Du) or it is a modified recessive spotting. I think the latter is more likely, and for my theory I'm calling it s(du). So, recessive spotted = s/s and Dutch = s(du)/s(du).

To take my theory even further, I've postulated that s/s(du) might be a more or less even marked mouse. I reckon that 's(du)' will bring symmetry to the markings as Dutch is a symmetrical variety (and evens that won in the old days were often Dutch with two shoulder spots), and 's' will break the Dutch saddle up.

I don't know anyone who has done a Dutch to recessive spotted pairing, so for my own curiosity about mouse genetics I have done it myself, I have paired a Dutch buck with two recessive spotted does (litters due on the 7th of next month). I'll let you know what they produce!

Sarah xxx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm not interested as such in genetics but I am in interested in NMC archive.There is nothing new in crossing brokens to dutch,it's all well documented especially in the eighties NMC magazines.A century ago brokens used to resemble dutch much more.Evens pretty much were dutch and dutch have been used as the out cross for brokens when, as has happened numerous times over the decades, brokens have been few and far between.Dutch can also be used to change the spot colouring for brokens instead of the longer route of using an appropriate self.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

these are pictures of winning mice from 1919 and I think you can see that dutch,broken and even were/are one and the same


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

That fantastic Sarah, thank you! Very interesting indeed 

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Oooo... I may have to steal some of your dutch in the future then Sarah! lol I think I wouldn't mind the chocolate gene in my brokens!


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

WillowDragon said:


> Oooo... I may have to steal some of your dutch in the future then Sarah! lol I think I wouldn't mind the chocolate gene in my brokens!


Hi Willow,
Sarah's Dutch are very nice because of their perfect colour pattern. But if you only want to add b/b to your brokens, I think you should look for some mice with showtype. The type and ears of Dutch seem to be Petshop quality and will not be helpfull to improve broken mice. As far as I remember you already have some Brokens with many K-factors from Sarah C and beacuse they have so many K-factors you could even breed to chocolate selfs and cross back the F1 to get chocolate brokens. With Dutch you would go back three steps regarding type. Does this make any sense?

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

oh yes,using dutch would only be an option if there were no other broken lines available.Always opt for outcrossing to another broken line unless there is absolutely no other brokens available.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I think the fanciers of 1919 would fall over if they saw your brokens, Sarah! Yours are far superior to the champions of their day. I very much like the Dutch mouse at the bottom of the first picture though, with his high saddle.

Sarah xxx


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

If you look back at photos from the past of fancy mice, it's suprising how many of them were terrible by modern standards. Fancy mice were probably at their peak in the late eighties/early nineties. That was when there were still plenty of fanciers, and plenty of mice, but nutrition and general husbandry had reached the high modern standards we have now. These days the standard is still nearly as good as then, given that there are less fanciers and mice around.


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