# Should mice be provided wheels/saucers?



## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

I posted this on another site and am reposting here in case anyone wants to read some of the research. They are in no particular order.

I have never really bought into the idea that wheels do not provide significant benefits for mice. I decided to take my own advice and do some research. Here is what I have found with little effort:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/0 ... you-young/
"...The researchers were surprised by the magnitude of the impact that exercise had on the animals' aging process, Dr. Tarnopolsky said. He and his colleagues had expected to find that exercise would affect mitochondrial health in muscles, including the heart, since past research had shown a connection. They had not expected that it would affect every tissue and bodily system studied...But for now, he said, the lesson of his experiment and dozens like it is unambiguous. "Exercise alters the course of aging," he said....While Dr. Tarnopolsky, a lifelong athlete, noted with satisfaction that active, aged mice kept their hair, his younger graduate students were far more interested in the animals' robust gonads. Their testicles and ovaries hadn't shrunk, unlike those of sedentary elderly mice."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 20162/full
"...Our data demonstrates that exercise promotes behavioral recovery in the injured brain by modulating genes and proteins important to basal ganglia function."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8467811.stm
Physical exercise helps brains grow, mouse study finds 
Mice which exercised were faster learners faster 
Fresh research may help explain why regular exercise can improve brain power, say Cambridge scientists.

http://www.the-aps.org/pa/action/exercise/book.pdf If you want to know research protocol:
Resource Book
for the
Design of Animal
Exercise Protocols

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/20 ... cuit.shtml
"Evidence in both humans and animals points to emotional benefits from exercise, both physical and mental. Now, in recent experiments with mice, scientists have traced the stress-buffering effect of activity to a brain circuit known to be involved in emotional regulation as well as mood disorders and medication effects. The finding is a clue to understanding the neurological roots of resilience, key to developing new means of prevention and treatment for stress-related illness."

http://www.peakhealthadvocate.com/1519/ ... r-tissues/
The study, conducted by a University of Colorado at Boulder research team, examined the effects of voluntary exercise in young and old laboratory mice, and found that the old mice who engaged in voluntary wheel running during the 14-week study period showed cellular changes in heart and surrounding artery tissues that closely matched with corresponding tissue samples from the young mice in the study.[1]
All of the mice received the same diet and had the same living conditions within their respective cages with the exception of the running wheel in half of the cages. The young and old mice who were in cages with exercise wheels were not forced to use them, but researchers did track the average use of the wheels by the mice in these cages. Over the course of the study, the young mice ran 8.2 kilometers per day (which seems like an awful lot of running for a mouse, but that's what the researchers reported), while the old mice ran an average of 2.1 kilometers per day.
A number of the tissue tests conducted by the study team produced extraordinary results. For example, when comparing known inflammation markers (inflammation signaling proteins called cytokines) between the non-exercising old mice and exercising old mice, the researchers found in excess of 60 percent reductions in the counts of the cytokines in the exercising old mice. Further, those 60 percent-plus drops in inflammation-related proteins resulted in absolute levels that were the same or below both the young exercising and young non-exercising mice."

There are more studies that come up immediatly under a google search of mouse exercise research, but these are some of the ones on the first page. There is more information on the pages, but I tried to clip some of the conclusions for everyone. Having taken the time to look up some of the research that has been done regarding mice and exercise, I'm sticking by my opinion that wheels should be provided to mice for optimum health. All 12 of my bins have some sort of wheel or saucer in them, with two saucers in with bigger populations.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, crud. Next paycheck gets a percentage going to additional wheels. *sigh* Is there a discount anywhere for buying these things in bulk? If it can help keep my mice breeding longer, the minor expense is unquestionably justified.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

Have you looked at the bio-serv house/saucer combinations? Very cost effective, fit in bins, and are easy to clean. I put them in the sink, add a littel simply green, cover with warm/het water ad let them soak for 15 or so minutes. Nearly everything falls off them. Then I spray with the simply green, wipe down, rinse, and put on the drying rack. I like the simply green because it gets all the "grease" feel off the wheels and rinses cleanly.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Space in the tanks isn't generally an issue, since I suspend my wheels from the lids. The mesh lids and metal feet of most wheels combine to mean hanging wheels, which then means that baby mice can't get to them, allowing nursing mums to get wheels even though I'd rather not have wheels around babies (moving parts and no brains, not a good combo).


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I truely don't believe that there is a connection between longevity, and wheels. 
My mice live just as long, and longer, than any mouse given a wheel. I cannot believe that, even if there is a connection at all, it is significant to their lifespan.


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

I personally will go with the scientists point of view. I prefer to open my mind to those that are experts in their area, rather than pretend I know it all myself.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Poor Floyd, he is my boy that protests the wheel out of pure choice, or ignorance, and has his whole life. 
Most of my tanks at least have one appropriately sized wheel, though I don't stress out if I'm missing a couple.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I also have a mouse who refused to use a wheel. Then again, he was a very fat brindle buck who refused to do much of anything.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

You're lucky you have the space Laigaie. My bins are just a bit too short for the proper sized mesh wheel.

Loganberry, Well put.

To date I haven't had a mouse refuse a wheel. I suppose if I did I'd have to say it was his/her bad decision. 

Rhasputin, if you don't buy the longevity, what do you think about the quality of health and the associated quality of life? There are plenty of people I know that have been couch potatoes and have poor health in their old age while I see others who have been active during their lives and still have great health in their old age. Both groups are about the same age, but the active people seem to consistantly have a better quality of life. Mice aren't humans, but much of the human research was first done with mice as were the above studies.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I think the studies talking about vascular health probably have a foundation in reality.  
Do they make or break a mouse? No, the mouse will never -need- a wheel to live a healthy and happy life.

Like I said on the other forum, I feel there is not nearly enough benefit from having a wheel, to go through the trouble of providing wheels to all of my cages. 
For a pet owner, or very small scale breeding, it is feasable. I used to give my mice wheels when I had more like 13 cages, but my mice are un-bothered by the change.


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

I have wheels. Well, one right now. For christmas I'm getting some flying saucers, so there's no need to buy another mesh wheel right now. Augustus can stand a couple of months without.

I think it does really enhance quality of life. My mice use thiers all the time, and excercise never hurts any animal. I see them as very important for mice.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

MoonfallTheFox said:


> I have wheels. Well, one right now. For christmas I'm getting some flying saucers, so there's no need to buy another mesh wheel right now. Augustus can stand a couple of months without.
> 
> I think it does really enhance quality of life. My mice use thiers all the time, and excercise never hurts any animal. I see them as very important for mice.


Do you feel it's wrong to not give a mouse a wheel?


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

It depends on what else the mouse has. IF the mouse is excercising a lot without one, or it plain dislikes wheels, then no, I don't think so.

But, given some of the simpler set ups, I think mice should have them. I won't go jumping on people who choose not to use them, but I do think they're a nessecary part of a proper set up in most cages. In a breeder bin, where mice don't get constant attention from owners, they are great to help keep mice entertained, healthy for breeding, and are re-useable, unlike TP tubes and what not.

Then again, I'm a pet only owner. It does influence my decision, I'm sure. But, buying a bunch of wheels in bulk could be a great investment if it improved the health and mental state of the mice, which I think it does.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

Rhasputin said:


> Do you feel it's wrong to not give a mouse a wheel?


I don't think anyone mentioned right or wrong. The thread was posted to provide information for a topic that is often brought up. I see the conversation as one to answer if wheels are in the best interest of the mice we keep in captivity. Several breeders, including yourself, continually advise that wheels are not needed as they provide no benefits. You mention that a tp tube is sufficient. I decided to look into the issue and have provided what I found. Research continually shows that wheels/saucers provide significant health benefits. I say significant because there are research standards that determine if the results are to be considered statistically significant and research has continually shown significant positive health benefits. Having conducted my own action research. I have studied many experts research in my field and know that not all research shows significant differences and the lack of that level of differences is explained within the research paper.


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

It also depends a lot on the specific conditons the animals are kept in. The number of animals kept per cage and the size of the cage, the type of food provided and how it is provided, the type of bedding used, the amount used per square inch. Labratory studies of this type would not directly apply to most pet owners or breeders since labratory animals tend to be maintained in a much different manner than privately owned mice. So yes if you maintain your mice to labratory standards then wheels may well be essential to giving your mice sufficient exercise and enrichment.

Wheels present a problem for me, they are not only an additional expense, to purchase and maintain but in order for them to function in your shorter cages the bedding must be kept to a minimum so they don't tip over or get buried. I fill my cages halfway with bedding material, depending on which cage this is 4-10 inches of bedding, on top of that I add hay/straw. There simply isn't room for wheels in most of my cages, and in the ones that do have room left I've found the mice simply bury the wheel and use it to structure their tunnels/nests. They get all the cardio they need nesting, tunneling and digging in the bedding.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

m137b said:


> Labratory studies of this type would not directly apply to most pet owners or breeders since labratory animals tend to be maintained in a much different manner than privately owned mice.
> 
> Please elaborate on what differences you see between the two types, especially labs and breeders.
> 
> ...


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I usually put in maybe 2in bedding. That's enough that, given scraps of cardpaper, the mice can build underground tunnels, but not so much that I feel like I'm wasting.

Also, I feel like the way many breeders keep their mice is very much in line with the way labs keep mice. They're kept in similarly-sized cages, perhaps a little more space for breeding mice in either labs or with a mousery. They're both fairly sparse, and labs do usually provide houses for mice in addition to bedding and water bottle. They're in close proximity to other mice, but not often exposed to more than two or three others at once, unless it's a doe with her litter. This is my experience with labs using mice and the husbandry facilities in them. I regularly thank my girlfriend's mother, who does research with rats, for all the things her field has done to help pet owners understand and take good care of their animals. My friends working in labs that use mice also know my feelings, and so are very open about the practices, letting me tour when I'm in town. I also remember that some of our members here work with lab mice. Perhaps some of them could chime in on that regard.


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## morning-star (Apr 9, 2011)

I like to give my mice the option of a wheel (fact I ended up buying two more space wheels then I have enclosures lol) some love it and I find the bucks that are in very small boxes (normally because they are unwanted for breeding and I'm selling them on) do much better/stress less if I can get a small space wheel in the box.

some mice just do not like them though but have lots of other things to do.

my main stud buck wont use a wheel any more and he's putting on the pounds to prove it. have to be sure to throw in some more very lively does in his home next month or two to keep him busy and active :lol:


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

I doubt many bed their cages like I do, but I do keep my cages outside so I do many things differently than the average pet oriented american breeder. I'm not truely that concerned about aging. I don't do pets, period. I don't breed my pets, and I do breed my mice, so they are not pets. If they live to 30 months that's fine, if they produce a superior offspring at just 10 months they are culled so their offspring can replace them in my breedings.

jadeguppy, if you actually beleive breeders use the same practices and standards as laboratories, check out these links to policies regarding housing and permitted population densities. In general lab mice are provided 15-20 sq inches of space per animal, most facilities use the standard lab mouse cages which are just 67-75sq inches[about the size of a plastic shoe box bin]. Up to 5 adult[keep in mind unweaned mice are not counted] can be kept in one single unit. http://www.upenn.edu/regulatoryaffairs/ ... ensity.pdf
http://www.iacuc.ucsf.edu/Policies/awSP ... ensity.asp

I would hestitate to keep a single virgin buck in the space allocated by many labs as appropriate for up to 5 adult mice or 2-3 adults and 1-2 litters.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I sometimes have wheels in cages, but not all the cages all the time. Some meeces really like them, but I switch arrangements. It's fun to see a half a dozen mousies enjoying a wide open space after having had their tank full with toobs and wheels and other stuff. I think they enjoy having a new set of 'furniture' at cage changing time. It' really just a matter of whether or not I feel like spending the time of washing, etc., all those items. Sometimes I'm in the mood and I spend an extra half hour or so figuring out new configurations for the tanks, but, hey, after a few days, those pieces of plastic get stinky!! So I don't do it all the time. I don't think the meeces mind one way or the other.

It would be very noisy if I had a couple of dozen wheels going all the time.


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## morning-star (Apr 9, 2011)

moustress said:


> It would be very noisy if I had a couple of dozen wheels going all the time.


tell me about it flying saucers are far from 'silent' like they claim :lol: when I get new stock in for we have to keep some of the mice in our bedroom (so they remain quarantined) and they all mysteriously loose their wheels for that month.....


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## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

Shortly before Heather had her litter, I had to separate her from her sister. Ling has made her annoyance felt by "walking" her flying saucer to the side of the cage so that it makes the most awful racket, and then runs on it for what seems like the whole night. Little b****r. I'm seriously thinking of removing it from her cage.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

lol that's why I can never keep my mice in my room! :lol: Maybe just take it out at night?


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

LOL, I've got a buck that seems to love to do that. The saucer itself is quiet, but the bumping against the cage wall is noisy. Thankfully that is a temporary cage. My usual bins have softer plastic and an indented bottom that keeps them from pushing the wheel against the wall and banging it.

I had three buck brothers in a cage together that I left bare as advised so they wouldn't have a king of the moutain fight and need seperated. However, they started getting porky. I've moved two into a cage with the hamster sized mesh wheel and they have already started to slim down. Interesting thing is that the original cage had more floor space than a 10g and this one is much smaller. I'm happy to say the brothers are still getting alone and share the wheel. they are getting to the three month old mark and have never been bred. I hope to have the fit as a fiddle by the time they leave to meet a new breeder next weekend.

I was reading the American Psychology Guidelines for the reasons to use different exercise methods and was amazed at the distance that mice tend to free run on their wheels and the ways in which they do. For those into rats, they same guidelines discussed options for rats as well.

Has anyone seen research on the impact of not exercising when young and potentially trigger obesity genes that may not have been triggered otherwise? I wonder what the results would show. I think it would be a great research project for brindle mice.


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

My brindle's still a big pudge, but all of my does are.

And my rats- forget it. They would never use a wheel.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

Yea, the guidelines mention that oe advantage to using mice over rats for research involving wheels is that they tend to be more self motivated to run on them than rats. Interesting that your rats are following suit.

At what age was your brindle exposed to a wheel? I have a brindle that hasn't shown obesity. I'm wondering why. I got her from a pet store and I know there is always a wheel in the breeding cage. However, I didn't have one in with her and her babies and some of the babies are a bit plump. She was bred to a black buck. I'm temped to do an in home experiment comparing two of her litters, one with a wheel/saucer and one without. However, I'll have to look into my records, she may be too old for two more litters.


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## morning-star (Apr 9, 2011)

You move the wheel to the middle of the cage, and in five minutes they have it scraping the food bowl. So you dump out the food remove the food bowl and put the wheel in the middle of the cage. Two minutes later is grinding against a plastic tube. You remove tube. It grinds against hanging treat about two minutes later, so you remove said treat and so on until; it them somehow ends up at the other side of the cage into the side of the cage. you remove said wheel and put the other toys back. finding at this point the cage is empty apart a wheel and and hide :lol:


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

LOL. I've got one tht did that a lot. I tried putting in a silent spinner yesterday. He doesn't seem to be able to move that one enough. THe base support sticks out further than the wheel and protects it from bumping the cage wall. I saw a posting about cutting off the back part of the spinner that attached to the stand and siliconing on a magnet that will allow you to attch the wheel to the side of a bin. There are soe small round aquarium magnets that look to be the perfect size. That is the only way I can think to foil your little ones rearranging plan.


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

I've had a wheel for them since I got them, some of them had wheels in the cages they were pulled from and some didn't.

They aren't obese, just kind of fluffy.


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## hlforumhl (Oct 2, 2011)

I have lots of different types of rodents, some wild, some big, some small, etc. I would never keep any of them without a wheel. They spend hours and hours running on them. It helps them keep physically fit, and prevents frusteration from not being able to burn their endless energy. I find wheels especially important with wild animals.


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