# Failed pregnancy and sniffles.



## CheezieSpaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Not really questions but more of a story and maybe some helpful info for some breeders out there [even though I'm not a breeder myself]

About four weeks ago I adopted a Blue tan and a Black tan from love2read here on the website knowing full well that the Blue tan, who I've named Checkers, may be pregnant. She did have a bit of a belly when I got her and was pretty heavy but she's also a big mouse. About a week later, Checkers got a lump on her cheek. Having just lost a himi I got from the same breeder to a tumor, I rushed Checkers to the vet that monday. Luckily they diagnosed it as an abscess since it was not attached to the jaw and the placement of it was too odd to be a common tumor. Now, you're probably wondering what this has to do with the pregnancy: Well the breeder was highly leaning towards the fact that she wasn't pregnant but when the vet was examining her she said she could feel multiple little bodies in her and I should be expecting babies very soon. I was prescribed antibiotics for her that were light and wouldnt hurt the babies and at first they didn't seem to be working since the abscess only seemed to grow. I became worried but after a while she had been scratching at it, nicked her fur and drained it half way. I notified the vet that it did shrink and that I'd continue with the antibiotic. The next day it refilled and grew twice its size but then that same day she scratched at it so much that the puss ended up draining out completely after she tore a huge hole in her cheek. There wasn't much we could really do but keep the wound clean since we were still waiting for babies but overall she was fine.. just with a hole in her cheek.

It's been about four weeks in my care, I think five weeks since she was separated from the male? maybe a little longer? Either way, she's way overdue so I took her to the vet this morning to see what was wrong. She's had a history of reproduction problems described as 'having trouble conceiving' and only having two pups in a litter. I told this to a few people seeking help, worried that I knew she was pregnant and wasn't giving birth after so long and someone told me an interesting fact I never knew could happen: Sometimes mice will reabsorb their fetuses. Basically, Checkers doesn't have trouble conceiving at all she just has trouble carrying them to term and whatever she doesn't reabsorb results in small litters. The vet confirmed this saying she weighs in at about 50-something grams now where her last visit was 75. She doesn't feel much of anything in her stomach anymore, if not, probably one pup that's still being reabsorbed. No surgery was needed, no induced babies, just gotta let her finish doing her thing I suppose. No babies for me and now Checkers can finally be named a _retired_ breeder. During today's vet visit they also checked out her wound and gave me some heavier meds now that we don't have to worry about babies.

Now, the sniffling. My Black Tan, Chex Mix has suddenly come down with some sort of upper respiratory problem. She was perfectly healthy and hyper and all over the high rise then one day just suddenly hunched up in corners, her fur looked all rough, her lymph nodes look a little swollen and she's constantly sneezing. I have made a vet appointment for her too but it won't be til next Monday for little Chex since I made that appointment at a different vet that's much more affordable [they just didn't want to look at checkers so I had to take her somewhere else]. I'm not really sure what's wrong with her or what I can really do until then so we'll see soon enough. Hopefully I can get my ladies back up on their feet before the introduction of new ladies this up-coming month.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Thanks for sharing your story with us. I have known litters to be reabsorbed in the past.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Two of my females have also reaborbed a fetus or two. It seems to happen 2/3 of the way though the pregnancy for me when the doe drops a gram or two (or three). You sure have had a rough go in terms of vet visits but hopefully things will clear up soon!


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

proberly the stress of moving, i brought a doe that looked pregnant but she slimed down with no babies asumed the stress caused her to reabsorb.


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## CheezieSpaz (Jan 21, 2013)

hmm well if it was stress related it may have been due to taking her meds? She can be very squirmy when I try to give her her medicine, never lets me scruff her and even tries to bite when I use the glove method then hides in my armpit when its all over. Since she's had a history of small litters and going months with a male without full term pregnancies I'm assuming it's just something her body does. I'm not too worried about it though. I was excited for the babies but I can be just as happy having her as the sweet cuddily pet she is and now I can focus on that hole in her cheek and getting that... at least healthy. I doubt it'd close up considering she took a huge chunk of skin off but at least I can keep it from getting infected with the meds I got today.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

it proberly will close up but will take ages, had a guinea pig at work who had a massive hole in her face from an abcess as the vet had to cut loads of necrotic skin away as it had gotten so bad while on baytril for it. (Turned out after speeking to the exotic vet they said that its no use giving baytrill to things with closed abcess as that isnt effective on bacteria that doesnt need air and it should be given after it is opened to stop secondary infection.) We were told to keep removing the scab and flushing it out so it heals from the inside out and it eventualy closed up.

So hopefully hers will do the same and close up.


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## CheezieSpaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Ouch. The vet gave me baytril for her wound so I guess I'll be following the same routine. It's just hard to monitor her scratching when I go to bed. I woke up this morning to a bloody cage. I'll try my best to keep her cheek clean and hope for the best. Thanks for the tips!


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## CheezieSpaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Well, despite my best efforts, Checkers took an immediate and unexpected turn for the worst. I took one night to spend at my friend's house and come back and suddenly she's all lethargic and breathing funny. She wouldn't eat or drink and eventually I could feel her body was very very cold and all she wanted to do was snuggle. Just an hour ago I saw her jumping around the cage and sure enough when I went to check on her she flopped on her back and she passed. I still have absolutely no clue what hit her so hard and so fast but... may she rest in peace.

Oddly enough, I just adopted three new little 5-week-old babies today. They were born the day of Cheesecake's death and came into my life the day of Checkers' death. The number of mice I had at once was a total of 6 for about 4 hours and now it's down to 5. They will be quarantined until I can figure out what's going on in my cage that's getting all my babies sick.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Have you talked to the breeder about all this? She'll likely want to know what health issues are cropping up with her stock and maybe has seen this in other mice perhaps being able to shed some light on this.


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

Besides getting in touch with the person you got your mice from I would look at husbandry methods as well just to see if you can improve on them.

Thoroughly clean and disinfect with a good bactericidal disinfectant and also look at how you store the feed and bedding and the type of bedding used. If bedding is hay of any type I would dispose of current stock and purchase fresh keeping it in a large sealed container (hay storage requires ventilation holes to prevent it from sweating and going mouldy, top and bottom holes of 2-3mm will allow the airflow) the same with the feed. reason for this is that either may have been contaminated from wild rodents at a place beyond your control or knowledge.

Getting into a habit of doing this on every cage clean and also washing hands between handling mice or cages may help in any future spread of any illness. I use a handy travel sized alcohol based hand sanitiser before handling any of my mice even if they are cage mates.


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## CheezieSpaz (Jan 21, 2013)

I have notified the breeder about Checkers' health but not her death yet. I attached a photo of my cage set up if you wanted to see too. I thoroughly clean and wipe down the cage and their toys every 3-4 days, change their food and water every day [sometimes I have two food bowls, one above and one below in case some of the mice aren't letting the others eat]. I use CareFresh bedding and feed them a seed and pellet mix.

I was informed that reabsorbing might be harmful to a mouse's health so maybe that's what go her sick so suddenly? I really don't know what she died from in the end and I could only think of that or maybe her cheek wound was infected but I was treating her cheek with antibiotics. I may have gone through a lot of mouse deaths but this one in particular was very strange and sudden.

I'm quarantining the new babies from the two adults left until I figure out what's going on that's making all my mice sick.


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

Nice setup.

Its frustrating at times when one gets sudden death and not able to find the cause or even continued ill health problems, the only thing is look back over a 4-5 week period for anything different from change in diet to environmental things, mice being prey will usually mask any illness for up to 4 weeks and by the time any symptoms show is usually too late for us to treat effectively.

Include places visited that house animals within the past 4 weeks also and then its just a case of eliminating each thing, I would also include any other persons who had access to the room the mice are kept but that is just me, anyone have any kind of illness that has been in contact with the mice, especially those with colds, flu or even chest infections. The latter being for those that have mice suddenly getting a respiratory infection.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Sorry to hear that, I'd guess it was related to the abces, as before it opens or is opened up the infection inside is building up, and it can spread. That's what got the g pig at work in the end it kept spreding.


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## CheezieSpaz (Jan 21, 2013)

Well she was only in my care for four weeks and she was perfectly fine until she got that abscess. It never was drained properly due to her pregnancy so I can see that it might have spread. a very unfortunate end for just about the sweetest and most docile mouse I've had. at least the new babies are helping me immensely with the grieving process. Deep down I kinda knew Checkers wasn't going to make it so instead of just getting one new baby from my cousin's oopsy litter I ended up with three. They're all quarantined in their own 5 gallon and will stay there until my black tan and my PEW get better or.. check out. Hopefully I can stop this vicious cycle here and things start picking up.


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## DaisyTailsMousery (Nov 8, 2012)

You have the same cage topper as I do! Just wait untill babies are fully grown before you put them in there. I've had 3 or four hopper escapes from it. They can squeeze through the bars pretty easily, just letting you know! Oh, and I am sorry for your loss.


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## CheezieSpaz (Jan 21, 2013)

how fun lol. The babies were in there for not even a full 24 hours and didn't really try to escape unless I left the top wide open during handling one of the other mice but they did try to squeeze through a carrier I have during a mite treatment! The carrier's door has a little more space between it and the bars than the bars do on their own and Cheng Ting managed to squeeze out twice while I was treating another mouse. I have to say this is the youngest I've ever had mice and they're a lot of fun at this age. I posted them on my mouse blog if you wanna have a look: http://cheeziesmice.tumblr.com/post/466 ... y-tank-all

The sisters all look the same except for their tails. Cheng Ting has the most pink on her tail, Chevre Truffles has a little bit of pink at the tip of her tail and Chelsea Buns has no pink on her tail and she's the smallest. their tank is kept in my room while the two remaining adults are in the living room.


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