# HELP ..... graphic pics



## yyoung

Oh my dear lord..... when I went to feed and check on my mice tonight .... look what I found.

I have been keeping an eye on these three baby boys as they have been squabbling but tonight obviously that has escalated into something much more serious. I am in the next room and I didn't hear anything. I feel so bad now. I have taken out the two 'picked on' boys and left the bully onhis own and he seems totally at ease with it..... almost triumphant.

Just observing them now and it appears like the mouse is biting off his own skin. He isn't licking the wound ...it really does look like he is biting off his own skin. Should I leave these two together as they seem quite settled or should I just split up the lot ?




























Should I do anything with this wound ?


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## julieszoo

Ouch - looks nasty. I think it will look worse before if looks better too, as there is a lot of ragged skin from the bite wounds that will probably go necrotic and slough off. The wound does not look deep though, so as long as it is kept clean, and the mouse is happy and eating it will probably heal fine. You could give some covering antibiotics, and maybe use wound powder to help it dry up. Might be worth keeping the mouse alone.


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## Peteyandthegang

Eek  Personally I;d split them all, it's not worth any risk and he probably needs time away from others to heal anyway. Any more damage and that guys in real trouble, looks pretty serious now really. Not your fault though, you didn't hear them. This is the problem with some bucks, you just never know


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## yyoung

Don't know what is going on in this house at the moment. I had to separate another boy tonight and these five have been living together happily for months. Also my guinea pig males are all squabbling as well. Seems like they know something I don't. The noise is horrendous.... all squealing and teeth chattering together. Actually just give me a gun and I will just shoot them ..... or myself )

Any ideas what could be causing all this commotion ?


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## SarahC

sexual maturity?


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## yyoung

All these animals (incl g. pigs) are different ages and most have gone past sexual maturity. These baby boys are about 3 months old so that would ring true for them but what about the others. Every males animal I have was going nuts last night. Seems calm this morning mind. The attacked mouse is biting his own skin off. He has a new patch this morning and I saw him doing it last night.... :shock:


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## SarahC

a mystery then.Perhaps just one lot of fighting and commotion set the ball rolling.That wound looks terrible.I wonder if its infected and the mouse is removing the dead tissue?Really awful thing to happen,I hope things return to normal .


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## SarahY

This is just terrible  Poor mouse. He looks like he's really been picking at all the skin on his back.

I had a rat once that ate his own tail - he was about 18 months old and had always been happy and healthy. I thought one of his cagemates had bitten the last couple of inches off, put him in the hospital tank on his own and searched everywhere for the missing bit of tail. Couldn't find it, went back to check on him and he'd bitten off and eaten another inch. I couldn't stop him so I had to euthanise him. It ranks up in my top 3 most horrible things I've ever seen, so I really feel for you  I hope your mouse is just picking off crappy skin and that he heals up soon.

Sarah xxx


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## violet1991

I can help solve the guinea prolem, it will be maturity sarahc is quite correct. After the 4 week mark when you separate from mum, they are fine with most other males, they accept them as dominant, however as they get older, and it will be around 3 to 5 months that they will challenge the older male and fights will break loose. obviously it doesnt ALWAYS happen, some baby boars never bother to argue over dominance at any age. It is the ONLY thing with keeping male guinea pigs as pets, but sows can be little bi**ches too!!! hehe. (btw, i breed guineas  )

As with the mice, I should imagine it is roughly the same thing, though worse as they have all come into this zone of dominance all at once, obviously the one who attacked them is the most dominant, and with mice i guess they just wont accept other males even though they are the boss.

the wound will need to be kept clean, i advice you to wash it every day, and if possible with anticeptic (TCP or something)... putting tee tree cream or wound stuff on will help too. Hope he gets better soon!

Vi xx


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## yyoung

All my guinea pigs are over 18 months old .... way past the teethe chattering fighting stage I would like to think. There has been a little bit of chatter today and some very odd whinging sounds but nothing like last night. The pigs and mice are in different rooms too. These boys now are different as they are about 3 months old and ripe for male punch ups....except this has gone way too far.

Below is pictures taken in order from this morning to this afternoon. I think he has stopped biting his skin off and it looks quite dry but I wonder if it is looking a little infected or am I just flapping too much. Do you think he needs a trip to the vets ? If I put antiseptic cream/gel/ointment on his wounds is it toxic if he licks it off ?
































































Does it better or worse do you think ?


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## Cait

It looks like it's starting to heal. I would say there's a massive risk for infection, and you need to give some form of treatment or clean the wound somehow. It might be worth googling to find out what is done to people with similar wounds so you can adapt it.


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## yyoung

I agree it looks a bit better ( well less raw and watery/bloody) but I think there may ne a trip to the vets coming on..... will see how he is tomorrow morning.

On another note .... the other boy i took out last night I have put back in with his 4 brothers as a trial (under my supervision) because he was literally going mental. It was quite heartbreaking to watch and I've not seen it before so I'm giving him another chance... Am I making a massive mistake ? So far he seems pretty relaxed....


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## SarahC

I think re introduction is a mistake.


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## Peteyandthegang

Yep definite mistake, keep them seperate...you've seen what can happen
Some bucks will naturally be fine together. This lot obviously aren't


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## danniixx

I know what you mean about mice going mental once separated, when I decided to breed from my Winston and the time came for him to split from the female he was something neurotic and still is, mice are social creatures so all it means is that you'll have to give him all of the attention that you can, at least half an hour a day as he is now completely dependent on you for love and attention. And yeah, its probably better not to put them together again as fights could start up even easier now if hes began to be brutally dominant, its possible the hurt mouse was opposing him, or the previous dominant mouse. I tried to reintroduce my bucks after the breeding, in a large box which was not part of either territory, and , although Chester was fine, as soon as Winston caught wind of him they began to box and he chased him round and tried nipping him rump. At this point I shook the box (just enough to make them think huh? but not enough to fling them about) because they were in a kind of fury. No damage was done to either of them but it shows how quick family ties are lost. The fact they were brothers and were let out to play on my desk together meant nothing, as soon as the territory and dominance was established, that was it really. Its heartbreaking to see them all depressed but they'll pull through if you smother him with love lol.


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## yyoung

Oh heck.....

I left the other boy in with his brothers overnight as I watched them (secretly as well) for hours and they were totally fine. These boys have lived together for months quite happily and I just thought I owed it to him to give him another chance. I may well live to regret that decision.

Calm appears to have descended over all my animals. It's quite odd how it has gone from pure mania to still and quiet. I wonder if it was all set off by 'bully boy' attacking his brother (the one with no skin on his back). Maybe this set off a chain of events that caused the other boys to fight and in turn the boy g.pigs to fight ? Now that I've put 'bully boy' on his own there is serenity. Of course the other boy I removed spent a whole 24 hours in solitary confinement which may have helped. I don't know... you probably all think I am bonkers but it seems like a sane theory to me.

Attacked mouse seems fine in himself.... running and climbing...and the wound certainly looks less 'raw'. Hopefully he will recover well.


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## danniixx

maybe it was an issue with two dominant males then, and as you have removed the opponent the hassle has gone away for the time being- be careful though as there will probably be another point where his dominance is opposed and you could end with with another mouse like the first one.


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## yyoung

As I've posted in another thread I though you might like to see how my poor wee mouse was doing.....

It is a minor miracle I think. I have been putting Bepanthen (babies nappy cream) on his wound and it's almost totally healed up. Look at how well he is doing.

On another note the boy I removed from the other tank and then reintroduced the next day has settled in perfectly. He is no longer the dominant one and there have been no further upsets ....... so far !!! Please ..... long may it last.


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## Mari

Oh, he looks wonderful! What an amazing recovery! You've been a good mouse doctor, for sure! I'm so glad he did not end up with an infection, as an open wound of that nature on critters like this is such a risk! It's not like you can try to keep them in a sterile environment or wrap it!

He looks positively fab!


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## WillowDragon

That is so AMAZING! I would be so happy if i were you! hehe

Good job!

Willow xx


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## icedmice

Oh My :shock: ,
That looks very nasty, I've treated cats, ducks and chickens with similar wounds (cat fights and a fox attack). I've used betadine (an iodine solution) successfuly on a mouse that had fungal skin irritation, I haven't had any problems since.

I can't guarantee that betadine is harmless to use on animals, I'm not a vet and I don't know. I can only say that in my experience it has not caused any problems. It is also used prior to sugury on humans so one would HOPE that it is a safe product :shock: .

A good anticeptic should be applied and a visit to the vet would not go astray if your not happy with how it's healing. In some cases infection can enter the body through the wound. Extra clean bedding is vital while the wound is still open.

All the best.


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## Kylie

Wow I'm sorry that happened.
:[

But, yes! The wound looks like it healed very well.


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## Jack Garcia

I only just now came to this thread, but I wanted to say -- good job! I probably would have saw the original wound and euthanised that mouse immediately. I'm glad you took the time and he made it.

For future references, this page is a good guide for wounds in mice (although actually written for rats) http://ratguide.com/health/trauma/wounds.php It has pictures too (some quite graphic, be warned).


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## Kallan

Normally I would say, yes, bring it to the vet - but if that mouse had been presented to me my first thought would have been, 'ZOMG! That's never going to heal! It needs stitched or put down!' and I would have had to charge you £20 for the privilege! Just goes to show :lol:


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## yyoung

Actually you should see this little guy now ...... or should I say BIG FAT guy. He is doing so well and is just a tad porky.

Will get pics and post them later. He's so gorgeous.

On the betadine subject I have 2 other mice (mother and son) who have terrible skin problems. They are the only 2 mice with this problem and the mother obviously lives with females who haven't got this condition. I have been treating with ivermectin every week for 5 weeks now and there is a good improvement with the mother but the little boy is not having the same improvement. He is getting very slowly better not not as quick as mother. These skin problems are terribly bad (much worse than this attacked mouse on this thread)..... do you think I could try betadine on these mice or just keep going with what I am doing. They have had antifungal cream but that didn't help. Vet thinks maybe demodex mites. Any input to help with these 2 ?

I know a lot of you will think they should be put to sleep but I just cannot bear it. I just keep persevering all the time ..... sometimes they recover ... sometimes sadly they do not.


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## moustress

It's to say which way to go with this problem. I have treated meeces with severe skin and ear problems, and the recovery rate was only about 50%. I used wide-spectrum antibiotics, topical steroids, and antihistamine. Good luck!


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## Kallan

If betadine didn't harm the wound mouse, I don't see it doing any harm on these.


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