# I found these today...



## maisymouse

This guy has hundreds of these mice, they are a very dark brown almost black, some are a bit fluffy and most have white patches but they are very cute and nice looking, he has lots of males and females and they are only £1 each...

I will also post this in the mice for sale section but just wanted to see what you think of her


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## FeralWolf

Hundreds :shock: ? Is that a good thing?


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## Rhasputin

Are you wondering what they are?
They're just black.


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## maisymouse

They are not black, they are dark brown


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## mouselover2011

aww very cute  cant wait to meet up wiv ya lata n get my babies  hehe xx


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## Matt Haslam

the colour is black, its just got a chocolate/brown cast


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## maisymouse

They are dark brown!!


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## Matt Haslam

I'm sure they make nice pets


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## maisymouse

They are lovely mice, I decided to go back today for some for my friend and came across a pregnant one which they didnt want, they gave her to me, I've not bred mice for years so I'm a little rusty..


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## Matt Haslam

maisymouse said:


> They are lovely mice, I decided to go back today for some for my friend and came across a pregnant one which they didnt want, they gave her to me, I've not bred mice for years so I'm a little rusty..


what are your breeding aims?


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## maisymouse

Im not really a breeder just couldnt resist the poor little thing, think they were gonna kill the babies, I would just like them to turn out healthy


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## Matt Haslam

ahhh ok.

This forum has a lot of members who breed mice (some of the top breeders by exhibition standard), many of whom humanely cull their litters; it may be that you run into conflict, whether internally or externally because of this. I don't mean for this to put you off , just a heads up really.

best wishes


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## maisymouse

Yeah, I have no idea how things are going to turn out but I know things could take a turn for the worse, just thought I'd rescue her

Thanks


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## sarahsnake

how is buying some mice from a feeder breeder `rescueing` them?
confused.com


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## SarahY

Please remember that we're all entitled to our opinion and play nice people 

Sarah xxx


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## Stina

> They are dark brown!!


Just because they look brown doesn't mean they aren't black...they are genetically black...they are just poor blacks that look brown.


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## maisymouse

Does it really matter? I'm not bothered what colour they are, they are so tame and friendly


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## Stina

Just clarifying because at the beginning of the thread it seemed you were quite bothered by what color they are.


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## maisymouse

Brown, black... I'm not bothered


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## minibears

is it possible that they are havana?


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## Matt Haslam

minibears said:


> is it possible that they are havana?


no, standard colours are black or chocolate, they are not chocolate.


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## minibears

genetically, not by any standards, maisy didn't ask for standard colours. by any standards i say they _better_ fit into black, but they could be genetically havana, which would mean maisy is technically right, dark brown...


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## Stina

Havana is not a genetic term I've ever heard used in mice...

there is a *slight* possibility of chinchillated black...but really its not likely, and they wouldn't really be brown they'd be an off-black. On the other hand poor blacks are commonly quite brown. No one is saying they don't look brown....just that they are most likely genetically black.


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## sarahsnake

havana a rabbit colour?


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## Matt Haslam

I don't think we use the term havana in the UK, its certainly not a standard colour.

listen, it looks whatever colour you see. call it what you want, but this is a breeding forum and in breeding terms it is more than likely safe to say that it is a black.

breed a choc to it, see what the litter is.


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## icedmice

I can't see the image but I place my bets it's a poor black. I have a black with a moult line at the moment and the moulting patch appears dark brown.

Havana is an term used in Australia for c(ch) c(ch) mice, it may be a term one particular member who has a lot of influence started. Lots of the terms we give mice is Australia aren't applicable overseas.

The havana dilution on a genetically black mouse it gives a very dark brown almost black appearance and you can on occasion find them in pet stores in Australia, often you won't even know they are havana until you breed them.

We also can exhibit colours that are unstandardised in other countires, it's very open, I was actually very surprised bone c(e) c was standardised.
Wheras with your clubs only colours that can be immediately and undeniably recognised are standardised, and personally I prefer that method of judging. There are lots of judging methods in Australia that puzzle me with it's lodgic so I just breed to the standards of the ECMA. Most Australian standards originated from international ones anyway.

I'm also puzzled as to how this scenario is a rescue, unless my definition of rescue is different. Humane euthanisia isn't necessarily a worse outcome as opposed to the life some mice endure.

I wish you success in breeding these wonderful little creatures and all the enjoyment that the fancy can bring.
But in the meantime keep an open mind and learn from the experience. 
There are some great books and websites available, have a browse, it won't take long to learn the lingo and culture of mouse breeders.


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## maisymouse

Im not breeding from them. The mice were in a very bad state, they were being treated badly and living in bad condition, so as far as I am concerned I rescued them, they were going to leave a heavily pregnant female in with 20+ bucks, thats cruel


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## minibears

maisy, it's good that u care for the little darlings and no1 is saying that u don't. just be aware that u taking these mice makes room for the 'breeder' to do this to more mice and the only way you can truly 'save' them all or make a difference is by reporting these people to the appropriate organisation,


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## maisymouse

They have been reported thank god  first thing I did


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## Laigaie

Sadly, rodents are exempt from almost all animal laws here in the US. I'm so glad to hear that's not the case where you guys are.


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## icedmice

In Australia we also have limited resources in preventing cruelty of any animal. We do have the RSPCA but they are more or less a toothless tiger when it comes to actually taking action. The rules are there, there's just noone there to enforce them. We even have legitimate puppy mills operating.


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## sarahsnake

we have licenced puppy mills in the uk too.


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## geordiesmice

What was the breeder breeding them for feeders or pet mice maisy?did you take the 100 im just interested thats all.


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## maisymouse

He had loads of hamsters, rabbits, ginea pigs, chinchillas and even a hedgehog, he had the mice in massive fish tanks, the whole lot was filthy and most of the animals didn't have water, I took his remaining females which were about 12 and a male, thats all I had the room for and the pregnant female that was casually plucked from the tank of 20+ males and was going to be plopped back in, Ive rehomed the females so far and they have gone to really nice people, still have the doe which has had a gorgeous litter of 7


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## sarahsnake

mice dont necessarily need water, it depends on how they`re fed
i thought that if you went the traditional way with bread and milk it wasnt necessary?


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## SarahY

It's illegal to keep any animal without water now. Mine always have water available and even when they have bread and milk they still drink their water, so they must still need it.

Sarah xxx


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