# Fox and Chinchilla



## MouseMaid (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi guys, I'm trying to get my head around some basic genetics, and I'm hoping one of you will be able to clarify a couple of points for me.

Firstly, in order to be fox, does a mouse need to be at/at, or just at? I think I'm right in saying just at, as long as it's not at/A?

Secondly, if a mouse had only one copy of cch (forgive the lack of technical language, it's been a lot of years since I've had to think about genetics!) what would that show up as, or would it not show at all?

Thanks for reading


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

1) Yes, as a fox is a c diluted tan. a mouse only needs one tan gene to be a tan so at/at or at/a both look the same, and as you say A/at would not be fox but chinchilla.

2) it will depend on what other c gene it has. (im basing the below on the assumption that the mouse has no other dilutions eg not choc or blue ect)
C/cch = on either at/* or A/at will be un diluted so black tan and agouti tan
cch/ch = Burmese fox, can look close to the undiluted colour with a darker point and white belly or can be more lighter with a darker point and white belly. 
cch/ce = at/* mock choc fox - will look like an off choc fox so pailer shad than a true choc fox. A/at a fake chinchilla if you will, it will look chinchilla but more browney and a bit pailer than true chin.
cch/c = at/* I call these sepia fox the can range in shade massively from a mock choc to very light pail choc, have seen others call them mock choc other coffie fox but it has no official name so call it what u like realy. A/at again a fake chin, like the cch/ce it will be slightly muddy brown cast to it and will be very pail.


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## MouseMaid (Apr 7, 2015)

That's brilliant, thanks.

So if a mouse is C/cch, there would be no way of knowing that it carries cch (aside from breeding to a fox/chinchilla and seeing if there are any fox/chinchilla kits)?
That's interesting about the other c dilutes, I haven't really looked into that yet.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Yes as C (non diluted) is dominant over the other c genes. C/cch your would either need to know it was there from a parent or by test breeding yep.


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## MouseMaid (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks, think I've got it straight in my head now


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

No problem, as u want to show in foxes your looking at black, choc, blue and lilac. All with cch/cch. The others are non standard so can't be shown as fox.


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## MouseMaid (Apr 7, 2015)

Eventually I'd love to have lilacs, but I gather that's going to take a lot of time and patience (or a lot of luck!) but at least it will give me plenty to aim for in the long run. It was the blacks that first really caught my eye and took my breath away, they're so stunning.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Yeah you would need to make the lilacs. Black is the most common being shown, I know someone was working on making them in blue again. Most of mine carry choc, I prefur blacks as its a nicer contrast I think. It's funny as often the chocs look better when under 8 weeks then when adults the black look better. I want to get rid of the chocs but typically they have been the better does at the moment.

If you can get or make some blue Fox you will need to put it to a choc and asuming neither carries the other u will get blacks that carry both to breed together to have a chance of lilacs. But I'd run that as a side project so that way you can still show while working on it. (So show mice into the project but never project mice into the show line)


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## MouseMaid (Apr 7, 2015)

Yeah, I figured that might be the case - which is fine, because I love a challenge  I have to admit that I've already drawn up some basic ideas for breeding plans etc - that's part of the reason I was asking so many questions, I like to make sure I understand things before I dive into them.

You're definitely right though, I'd want to run it as a side project so I can get out there and start showing blacks or chocolates as well. I've never shown mice so that's going to be a steep learning curve.

I've heard it said that the dilutes can have better bellies because it reduces the chances of yellowing, is that correct? Like you though, I love the contrast of the blacks


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

poor bellies can have yellowing normaly where the two colours meet.

don't worrie were all very friendly and anyone at a show will normaly offer advice to both new and old members


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## MouseMaid (Apr 7, 2015)

Fab, thanks. Something to keep a look out for then.

I can't wait to get started and get learning


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