# Breeding is like a box of chocolates...



## nuedaimice

Sorry, just wanted to share these:

Box of Chocolates:


















And...
Breeding is like a box chocolates, you never know what you're going to get:


----------



## Onyx

Awwwwww, wow those are REALLY chocolately, how awesome!


----------



## The Boggit keeper

Mmmm Chocolate mice, I see they come in dark and white chocolate too :lol: 
Lovely mice and pics


----------



## Lottiz

Should be a prefect valentine day pic!


----------



## Mymouse

haha how cute


----------



## danniixx

xd gorgeous


----------



## moustress

Clever photos; lovely rich color on those adult meeces.


----------



## Rhasputin

Yeah, those parents look really rich, even on a background that doesn't really compliment them.
If you get a chance, take a picture of those two on a green background. That should really make them POP!


----------



## Matt Haslam

love those chocolates, i want i want !


----------



## Jack Garcia

Very cute! Wasn't Forrest Gump actually from Mississippi or thereabouts? :lol:


----------



## moustress

...hmmm...I wonder which one is the crunchy frog, or, for that matter the steel spring surprise?


----------



## nuedaimice

moustress, the one in the center is usually the caramel filled one. And its always near the center and square in shape. I have mastered the art of finding the caramel in the box of chocolates. (Coincidentally, I now only buy the box of chocolates that is ALL caramels, makes things a lot easier).

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm late for tea with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. LOL


----------



## moustress

...tsk tsk...


----------



## ccoryjohnn

ha! i love this.


----------



## SarahY

Lovely pictures and lovely mice, nuedaimice 

I agree with your funny sentiment. I can predict my litters very accurately, but I can't always know 100% what I'm going to get. Show mice, yes, Abyssinians, no. I have a sepia fox Abyssinian satin buck, I know his genecode - at/at c/cch D/d P/p rst/rst sa/sa - having worked it out from previous matings. He's had lots and lots of litters that I've predicted accurately, and yet in his latest litter he threw a champagne! That was a surprise. So now I know to add B/b to that long list as well :lol:

Sarah xxx


----------



## Lizzle

This *absolutely* made my day! :lol: I think the background definitely compliments them - that chocolate coloring looks stunning! And those little ones, each in one of the holes.. this is just too cute not to show to others!


----------



## nuedaimice

Thank you everyone, again.

lizashley, the only disturbing part are the two empty holes... Now who ate those babies? :lol:

Sarah, thats a lot of fun genes hidden there! This litter was between a Dove Tan and a Broken Agouti Tan. I was trying to determine if the doe was hiding umbrous (as I need it for another line of mice) and the breeder had told me she may be hiding it.

This litter confirmed what I had hoped! The only surprise I got was that mom was carrying a spotting gene (Irish - and it was a pleasant surprise this time). I got an Argente Tan doe, Black Tan doe, Agouti Tan doe, "Irish" Umbrous Agouti Tan doe, "Irish" Argente Tan buck, Umbrous Argente Tan buck, Umbrous Agouti buck. I want to try to breed the Irish to a specific pattern and try to get standardized in the U.S.

I was going to cull the litter further down, but now seeing what I have, I decided to keep the extras for now until I get my stock rebuilt. I just bought new mice after 3 years without and am trying to rebuild my lines with an assortment of things, none of them being perfect show examples, but I'll get there slowly. And I didn't get very many does, so I need most of the ones I'm getting, as long as they are, at least, decent in type.

Sorry I'm rambling, I'm excited about this litter. I have 2 other litters, one that I've culled to 4 already thats a few days younger. And one just born today... a whopping 16 babies! -Phew- I know mom is exhausted!


----------



## Lizzle

LOL :lol: 
Poor mommy mouse, that's a lot of babies!


----------



## moustress

Never can tell who munched the pinkies; from what I gather they must be awful darn tasty.


----------



## nuedaimice

> Never can tell who munched the pinkies; from what I gather they must be awful darn tasty.


-wipes mouse bits off the corner of her mouth- hmmm? what? Yea, I don't know WHO could have eaten them... I hear they are delicious, but I've never tried them myself... -cough-


----------



## Toast

Those mice are beautiful! You are so lucky to have such good chocolate colorings!


----------



## nuedaimice

Thank you!


----------



## WolfWhisper

Life is like a box of chocolates?! I'm in trouble then because I'm allergic to chocolate!


----------



## MarlaAlVutha

Allison
Awesome chocolates! I know you are gonna save a buck and a doe for me at some point. I have some chocos here that would be an awesome cross!


----------



## nuedaimice

I actually bred these two together, so I'm not sure what I will get. I would like 100% chocolates but I was told the line had RY, merle, and splashed "hidden" in it... so we'll see what I get. (Their breeder is Critter Momma, so she gets the credit for their awesomeness)

(If you want any of the merles, I'll give them to you - I don't like the recessive merles, the color is too light for my taste). I do kind of hope I get a b/b e/e (chocolate based RY) out of them. I have an idea to use it for.... errr... something.

But WolfWhisper won't be able to get near them, since she's allergic. LOL


----------



## moustress

Looking back to the pix beginning this post, I'm still struck by richness of the chocolate in these mousies. It's not at all hard to breed for chocolate, but to get this deep reddish chocolate, just like the chocolates shown on the box, is rare and so yummy!

Do they carry the cordovan modifier? (b^c or b^c/b^c)


----------



## nuedaimice

I don't think so. I think they are genetically a^e/a^e b/b - this is what I was told anyway (but cordovan is something I hadn't thought about before! I will have to breed them to another chocolate to find out!)


----------



## moustress

Hmmm...I'd tend to think that a^e/a^e would make the chocolate darker. That is the same extreme gene that makes extreme black. I'll have to ponder the matter a bit.


----------



## WNTMousery

moustress said:


> Looking back to the pix beginning this post, I'm still struck by richness of the chocolate in these mousies. It's not at all hard to breed for chocolate, but to get this deep reddish chocolate, just like the chocolates shown on the box, is rare and so yummy!
> 
> Do they carry the cordovan modifier? (b^c or b^c/b^c)


I don't see it. :?:

Maybe you've just never seen good chocolate mice so don't have anything to compare it to but these are not top quality in regards to type OR color.

Just sayin'.


----------



## SarahY

That was not very kind. In fact, I thought that was quite rude. Perhaps it would have been more tactful to say "show quality chocolates are required to be a much darker, plain chocolate colour rather than milk chocolate". There's no need to hurt people's feelings and adding a smiley face to the end doesn't soften the blow.

They aren't ae/ae b/b mice; they would be much darker and much less red with dark extremities. I would guess they carry quite a few recessives which have lightened the colour.

Sarah xxx


----------



## nuedaimice

Sarah, thank you for the info.

I had wondered what the mice are hiding anyway. They may just carry extreme, but I was told they were "extreme" chocolates, but in the U.S. you never know for sure (and U.S. extremes do lack a lot in color too). I know I was told they are carrying RY, Splashed, and a recessive merle. I don't really want any of these things, but I decided to try something with an RY if I get one. (If not, oh well).

I have bred them together to try and weed the recessives out of the line, and I will work on the color for a while (I will be crossing Umbrous in to darken it), and I will be crossing the line into a show typed line after I have corrected the color and weeded out all the hidden genes.


----------



## WNTMousery

Splashed (Spl/*) cannot be "carried". It is inherited in a Mendelian dominant fashion. They may be hiding the Splashed gene, but you wouldn't know without test mating, even if both parents displayed splashed (which if they did, 100% of the litter would be some sort of non-full-color c-dilute, and these two offspring are not).

It takes many years to breed out all recessives and in some cases when you believe you've done it, you get a big recessive surprise that ruins the line. Nevertheless, good luck on your venture!


----------



## moustress

If the mousie is heterozygous, i.e. C/c^e, the tricolour or splashed gene will not be expressed. It will show only the full strenghth of whatever color it may be.


----------



## WNTMousery

moustress said:


> If the mousie is heterozygous, i.e. C/c^e, the tricolour or splashed gene will not be expressed. It will show only the full strenghth of whatever color it may be.


Correct. Nobody said anything to the contrary. Are you confused?

However, if both parents EXPRESSED Splashed then they'd need to be a non-full-color heterozygous or homozygous c-dilute such as c^e/c^h or c^e/c^e. When breeding parent A that is non-full-color c-diluted to parent B which is also non-full-color c-diluted you will get babies that are 100% non-full-color c-diluted which would all express Splashed unless they are c/c albino.

If you're still confused, I'd be happy to help further.


----------



## moustress

If the mousie has both the splashed gene and the full color, and splashed is not expressed, then what would you call it other than
carrying it? It's not fully dominant, as it needs the homozygous dilution to be seen.


----------



## nuedaimice

> I know *I was told* they are carrying RY, Splashed, and a recessive merle.


I am sorry, but I can not help what another person told me. While that doesn't change the way Splashed is inherited, that is what was said.

I do not understand why you insist on picking apart all of my posts?


----------



## WNTMousery

moustress said:


> If the mousie has both the splashed gene and the full color, and splashed is not expressed, then what would you call it other than
> carrying it? It's not fully dominant, as it needs the homozygous dilution to be seen.


You are mistaken.

Saying the mouse "carries" the gene is a direct reference to the mode of inheritance being recessive, which is absolutely untrue in the case of the Splashed gene (Spl/*). You can say the mouse is hiding Splashed, not carrying it.

Also, a mouse can have a heterozygous c-dilution such as c^e/c^h OR a homozygous c-dilution such as c^e/c^e (hetero meaning two different, **** meaning two the same) and still express the splashing, as long as the c-dilute is not homozygous c/c which is albino. One albino gene paired with another non-full-color c-dilute gene works, as well, such as c^e/c, to express Splashed.

nuedaimice- Please do not think that I choose to pick apart your posts because you are special. That is definitely not the case. I feel a duty to the mouse breeding community to point out any misconceptions or inaccuracies, and to correct those untruths, within a public forum where others come to learn. It just so happens that I am experienced with mouse genetics, especially the Splashed gene and the way it works, as well as other genetics and breeding topics, which you seem to misrepresent quite often. It is nothing against you as a person, I just cannot allow misinformation to be spread in such a way that might confuse others who do not know any better. I do the same thing when I read other false information on the boards, no matter who posted it.

I admit I am not super-human and I often make mistakes, which I would expect to be corrected if posted in a public place as not to mislead anyone else. I hope that you or moustress or whomever, would correct me if I posted a statement out of ignorance here in the public forum.

I hope you understand.  Thanks


----------



## SarahY

You could, however, be more kind and tactful in the way you correct people.

Sarah.


----------



## WNTMousery

Hi Sarah,

It is easy to misconstrue meaning via the internet when you cannot express yourself with your tone of voice, hand gestures, etc. to add layers to the conversation. It is good to be as direct as possible and plain with your words so as to not cause confusion. I suppose it has the possibility to come across as rude or tactless, when in reality it is just meant to be direct.

Thanks


----------



## WillowDragon

> Correct. Nobody said anything to the contrary. Are you confused?
> 
> However, if both parents EXPRESSED Splashed then they'd need to be a non-full-color heterozygous or homozygous c-dilute such as c^e/c^h or c^e/c^e. When breeding parent A that is non-full-color c-diluted to parent B which is also non-full-color c-diluted you will get babies that are 100% non-full-color c-diluted which would all express Splashed unless they are c/c albino.
> 
> If you're still confused, I'd be happy to help further.


This is not direct... this is condesending.



> I don't see it.
> 
> Maybe you've just never seen good chocolate mice so don't have anything to compare it to but these are not top quality in regards to type OR color.
> 
> Just sayin'.


This is not direct... this is condesending AND rude.

Quite frankly Jenny, I am dissapointed in you. I would have thought as an admin of your own forum you would know better.
Or do you just come on here to have fun by slamming down on other people's mice? I don't see you doing this on your forum!

By all means, if someone has got something wrong and don't know it, correct them. But please don't do it in such a vindictive way!
Actually, come to think if it... the way you 'come across' in your posts towards by nuedaimice and moustress sometimes seems to be very rude on purpose actually.

I like you, I really do. I love your forum and you have gorgeous mice. But there is just no excuse for your behaviour on here sometimes.

W xx


----------



## WoodWitch

WNTMousery said:


> I suppose it has the possibility to come across as rude or tactless


Yes, it most certainly does!

In the interest of keeping our forum the nice, friendly community that we endeavour to make it, if you were unaware of it previously, I would hope you have been made aware now.


----------



## SarahC

shame when you all have such a wealth of knowledge to share,I love all these posts but I'm getting fed up of keep trawling through to remove posts that are upsetting people.


----------

