# "Varieties We Keep" - Dove Self (for Exhibition)



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Hello!

I keep dove self mice, and I breed them for exhibition. For me dove self are the most beautiful of all mice  They are a darker mouse than the other pale selfs. I started breeding them when three doves appeared in an argente litter. Until this, I had only seen doves in photographs and hadn't thought much to them, but after seeing them in the fur I was hooked. I've now been breeding dove self for 18 months and they do well in their class (AOC Self Adult and U/8), often winning first, but I have yet to advance to the Best Self and then Best in Show awards.

The most important thing I can impart to anyone starting a line of doves is never, ever breed champagne into them, or start a dove self line with champagne crossed to silver (which is the recommended starting point in most mousey texts). Yes, the type is awesome and show champagnes and silvers are fantastic mice, but the headache incurred by trying to breed out the dastardly chocolate gene is huge. Doves that carry the chocolate gene, or at least the modifiers that make champagne so warm, are muddy coloured, like a dirty puddle, and champagnes will appear in litters for generations. I regret using mice that carried champagne to start with, and I'd probably have started all over again if it weren't for the many other good points my line has (type, head shape, tail thickness).

Doves aren't very popular and currently no-one apart from myself focuses on doves for showing. So if starting dove stock can't be found, the best way to start breeding doves is to breed a good, solid show black does to a big, typey show silver buck, then cross the resulting blacks to each other or back to the silver.

Things to watch out for when breeding dove self for exhibition include:
* Type - they are pale selfs so must excel in conformation and size.
* Ear Size - needs to be as big as possible, but if they get too big the edge will feather and look untidy.
* Vents - The vents, ankles, nipples and ear bases of doves are prone to tan hairs, which is a major and ugly fault.
* Nose and Tail Set - These have a tendancy to be paler than the rest of the fur, and that must be avoided.
* Belly - Must be covered in thick hair the exact same colour as the top, and a 'line under' (a parting in the fur down the centre of the belly) must be avoided.
* Tail - Must be very thick, straight, and long, and pink in colour.
* Even colour all over - doves are very prone to ugly moults, and getting darker and very patchy as they age.

Tan vents and ear bases vs clean vents and ear bases:









This mouse shows feathering on the edge of the ear:









On this doe you can see a ring of tan around the base of the ears and a smudge of tan under the tail base:









Two dove does with a silver buck. These doves are too pale:









This doe has very nice type. She came 1st in a class of 10 mice:









Another dove with good type, but she has a pale tail set. Lovely face though:









This young dove is too dark and rather dirty looking:









Two dove kittens and one silver kitten:









Three rather matronly does displaying very patchy colour, which happens to doves as they age:









Doves of differing shades:









This is a pet type dove satin Abyssinian buck (the only pet-type I have):









I hope someone finds all this useful! :lol:

Sarah xxx


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## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

Wow, they are so beautiful, especially that last Abysinnian buck! :shock: Thank you for making this post! Out of curiosity, are you integrating him into your breeding despite the fact that he is pet quality?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> Wow, they are so beautiful, especially that last Abysinnian buck


I think he's really ugly! :lol:

Unfortunately all Abyssinians in this country at the moment are pet type so I did have to use him to start with, but I have much better ones now!

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Despite the fact that I can't help but cringe at his type, I actually really like the aby bucks colouring. Dove looks lovely in satin!! hehe

This was great Sarah, and really informative. You doves as always, are beautiful examples of show type mice.

I can understand the wanting to avoid using chams to make doves because of your experiences with it, and the time it takes to breed the choc gene out... but wouldn't it take just as long to breed in good type and large size if using show blacks? Which though lovely coloured, aren't exactly very typey compared to pale selfs. (Well the ones i've seen anyhow)

W xx


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> wouldn't it take just as long to breed in good type and large size if using show blacks? Which though lovely coloured, aren't exactly very typey compared to pale selfs.


That is true, blacks are smaller, but in the show black outcrosses I've done to sort out the tanning on the vents of the doves, the F1 blacks have had type as good as the doves. I think it's something to do with the actual concentration of black pigment.

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Ahhh interesting  Thank you my dear.

Was contemplating doing one of these for Chams... but I think I shall refrain, there are alot of people more qualifyed than me breeding that variety LOL

W xx


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

That was a really informative article and great to be able to see exactly what to look for in that variety eg; feathering on the ear, So Thank you Sarah 

Wouldn't it be great to have a collective book on Breeding and keeping Fancy Mice with contributions from a representative of each variety,expert in their field, rather than a book written by one person. The opportunity to have more in-depth information into the experiences of trying to produce and improve each variety would be fascinating. Highly impractical and unlikely I know but I'd love to find a book like that!(and you'd probably need a crane to lift it it would be so full of info! :lol: )

P.S: I agree with Willowdragon- Doves do look lovely in Satin!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Ah I'm itching to see these photos! I don't mind the chocolate hue to be honest but that might be because this one's coat appears to be satin to my untrained eye thus I'm totally in love.


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