# breeding plans



## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

right, i don't know what would be best to describe the mice i have, apparently nero has bald ancestors, and i know they're not show colours. i'm going to be primarily breeding for feeders...

these are the mice i have: 
http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6057

the plan is nero (my only male gets 15 days with a female who will get a baby enclosure away from all the other females as well during her birth and weening) each female gets a minimum of 84 days cycle between going in with nero and going back in with nero, this should produce just about enough babies to feed my snakes hopefully.

*now the question*, 
i will be taking the nicest babies out to keep.

*given that i have no idea of the heritage of the mice i have given your best guess what do you think they are *
*nero* = soft, shiny : pearl/white, pinkish : dark dark red eyes = (my guess is somewhere between ivory and champagne maybe self but in the right light he almost looks almost hooded in a ever so slightly creamyer almost argente Satin colour maybe)
*aztec* = soft, short, neat : dark dark brown/black top, caramel belly : black eyes = (i think just a black tan)
*storm* = messy mid/short very slightly curly : silver / very light beige : black eyes = ?
*möu* = short, neat, shiney : black and white all over in bands of dark rump, middle and nose : black eyes = ?

*and what are the mst likley outcomes of each pairing? *
*nero* + *aztec* = ?
*nero* + *storm* = ?
*nero* + *möu* = ?

ps i am new to actualy trying to look at genetics but i like learning. please forgive me if this was a stupid thing to ask from nothing more than pictures? will it just be better to just wait till after each has the first litter to guess the parents origin, and know better what is likely to appear next.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

copied from my original post:

"the photos are taken by my other half and edited by me, on a log on a white background, i photoshopped the backgrounds to make it more interesting...."

female 1 aztec









female 2 storm









female 3 möu









male nero


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

right so here's the first babies (fortunatly aztec is lovely and very trusting):

from aztec and nero

one day old









two days old









three days old









four days old


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

looks like one black/brown and caramel like mum, 2 cow spotty, 2 biege cow spotty, 2 with black just on thier eyes and 2 white?

i will get a better look at them later on.


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## Tinkers Mousery (Feb 20, 2011)

hi, lovely pics. our first litter of babies are 4 days old at the mo aswell. What cages / tanks do you use to breed your mice in?? if you dont mind me asking??


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

each has an xl tank like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BLACK-PLASTIC-FIS ... 2&x=69&y=3 i did want to get them cages but they seem to like these...


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## Tinkers Mousery (Feb 20, 2011)

ahh thats similar to the sort of thing i use. they are good.


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## kates (Jan 3, 2011)

given that i have no idea of the heritage of the mice i have given your best guess what do you think they are 
nero = soft, shiny : pearl, white, pinkish : dark dark red eyes = (my guess is somewhere between ivory and champagne maybe self but in the right light he almost looks hooded in a ever so slightly creamyer almost argente Satin colour maybe)
aztec = soft, short, neat : dark dark brown/black top, caramel belly : black eyes = (i think just a black tan)
storm = messy mid/short very slightly curly : silver / very light beige : black eyes = ?
möu = short, neat, shiney : black and white all over in bands of dark rump, middle and nose : black eyes = ?
and what are the mst likley outcomes of each pairing? 
nero + aztec = ?
nero + storm = ?
nero + möu = ?
~~~~~~~~
Hi,
I'm gonna try and make a first attempt at answering, however I may be wrong as i am not very experienced. Please correct me on anything here...

OK, I think the first breeding shows: 2 dark(black) self (solid) with black eyes, 2 light self with pink eyes(can't see the color yet but can see they are not marked) and the rest a mix of black broken(AKA pied or spotty) and agouti or brown broken. So the parent mice both carry the recessive s/s white spotting gene.

Does Nero have a darker undercoat, like if you pet him against the hair growth direction can you see darker hair underneath the lighter hair on top? If you can, then I think that makes him a "ticked" variety as in agouti (argente is a ticked). If not he is a self variety(champagne is a self). Looking on the Finnmouse site will show you how different genes affect the different colored hair.

I think Nero is carrying the pink eye dilution, which dilutes the coat color too. He may also carry a c-locus dilution that would make him a cream or beige.

You will want to look at the Finnmouse site, just google it if you haven't been there yet. Good luck!


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

thank you ^_^ i have some more pics to put up soon, nero's not darker under his fur although it may be just very very slightly, now the babies hair is coming through they look a little different, the black one is still sort of bald? with sprouts of curly hair? as are the two white ones.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

babies

mummy aztec









5 days old and 13 days old

---------------------------------1---------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 days old
















---------------------------------2-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . 13 days old
















---------------------------------3------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . 13 days old
















--------------------------------4------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 days old
















------------------------------5----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 days old
















-----------------------------6-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . 13 days old
















--------------------------------7-------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . 13 days old
















--------------------------------8-------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . 13 days old
















--------------------------9---------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 days old . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . 13 days old
















these are all the babies fron nero and aztec


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## Tinkers Mousery (Feb 20, 2011)

cute babies


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

cool hairless, they the first one looks evil :twisted: 
I like the first of the black brokens too, looks nice and glossy.


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

I think that first one is gorgeous and I like the way you've put the photos side by side to show their development.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

thank you ^_^ i have just had a litter from mou and nero, so i'll put them up as well tomorrow and in 6 days last ones of aztec and neros before they 'go'; although my other half has adopted the one now aptly named panda, but strangly i like the first one even if he looks like an aardvark.

. . . . . . . . mouse . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . . . . . .V . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. .. . . . . . . . . . .










.. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . aardvark . . . . . . .. . . ..
. . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . V . . . . . . .. . . ..


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

i shall breed aardmice and mivarks or the Murinae orycteropus... mmmm chimeraey


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

Mou and Nero

8 babies born on the 28th of feb 2011









mummy mou

............................. mn1 ...................................................................

------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------























.............................mn2.....................................................................

------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------























............................. mn3 ...................................................................

------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------























............................. mn4 ...................................................................

---------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------























............................. mn5 ...................................................................

--------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------

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Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content
























............................. mn6 ...................................................................

-------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------























............................. mn7 ...................................................................

-------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------























............................. mn8 ...................................................................

-------- 5 days old ---------------------------------------- 8 days old ------------------------ 16 days old-------------------























.

.

. none of my mice are show mice and i don't cull any at birth, this is why they are small.. i grow some to a size cull a few grow the rest bigger cull bigger cull, this way i have all sizes for my different snakes.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

i'm going to keep mn5 aka sif










my other half kept panda from the last lot and i kept aardvark, just to see what she turns out like:


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

next is storm and nero... (i need to keep another male i think)

storm: now sh'e an odd one, her eyes only look red when you use a flash, other than that they're realy dark, she started of off white grey/beige but lost all her fur (i thought the others were pulling it out) and when it grew back she had a black nose?! i honestly can't tell you what's going on with this one.


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

Great comparison photos, I like mn3's eye splotch and different coloured ears. Storm's turned out to be siamese then?


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

they're all a big old mix of everything, i got 4 from a man that breeds them for his snakes. i couldn't even guess at the muddle of genetics in them. at the moment i'm breeding each of the femals i got with the one male i got to see what comes out, and then i may try and breed to a specific trait. mostly out of seeing if i can. the biggest problem i'm having is wanting to keep too many, as the primary function of all this is to provide good snake food. i think though i will breed aardvark and sif and see what happens, i'll see if i can get a bretty boy from storms litter, so far i've only had 2 males out of 17 babies from 2 litters?


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

storm and nero produced all red eyed gold cream and white spotted, creamy, or white.

i've just put aardvark and august in together, and panda and sif.

i'll sort this post out better with pictures when i get my computer back from emma who's borrowing it for office, on my little acer, no photo editing software on here.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

Storm and Nero
















9 babies born on the 27th of march 2011


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

next two pairings are :

sif (son of nero and mou) and panda (daughter of nero and aztec):

















and august (son of nero and mou) and aardvark (daughter of nero and aztec)

















Nero









Aztec 









Mou


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## Tinkers Mousery (Feb 20, 2011)

shall be interesting to see what you get


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Cant wait to see!


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Would you mind resizing your photos as they are distorting the forum. Thanks


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

sorry, i have a massive screen so it doesn't do it on my computer... there are no photos that are larger width wise than the banner, so it's in the layout. give me a sec and i'll line them up verticaly so it doesn't distort width on small screens ^_^ you'll have to tell me if it makes it better on your screen though.

* i've rearanged them, did that help? i shrunk the window down to the size of the banner and it seems to look fine.

i want to breed nero and aztec again to see if i get some more bald black mice, if i do i'll cross them with aardvark. my other half likes the black and white ones (hence panda getting saved from being food and kept as a pet) but i like the little goldy ones (hence sif) i know none of them will be show mice but it's fun seeing what x + y = you never know i may end up with something odd. i am actualy considering using them as part of my second year uni study, i don't know if any of you heard but there's a study on the males singing to females. i want to see if captive breed mice do the same, and if the song has an effect on litter size, health, and how quickly the females become pregnant after introduction.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

That's much better, thank you. It's also easier to see the mice themselves - good luck with your litters.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

thank you ^_^


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

Panda and Sif 7 babies born on the 1st of may 2011

Grandparents and parents:
female mou + male nero = male Sif







+








=









female aztec + male nero = female Panda















=









panda has spots but black on the top and ginger underneath


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