# Any other info on Capped? *additional pic*



## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

So after mentioning capped earlier, I was reading up on finnmouse, and it's saying that it's caused by Banded & Sashed interacting. Can anyone support this?
http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/capped.html

The mouse that brought this to my attention.









Edit: I guess that explains why I have a clear cut line across this doe's back.









And why some other local breeders (who got mice from me) claimed to have had little oreos turn up from selves. I assumed they had missed seeing white feet & belly marks, or were mixed up. I am so crushed right now, to discover I wasn't working with a pure strain of banded. :icon_sad At least I don't have pied in there *knocks on wood*


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

You certainly could be working with just banded. Capped pop up as charlies in banded as well: http://www.fancymice.info/whattolookforbanded.htm


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Laigaie said:


> You certainly could be working with just banded. Capped pop up as charlies in banded as well: http://www.fancymice.info/whattolookforbanded.htm


That site doesn't specifically talk about Capped, it just mentions Charlies being a by-product, not much on specific patterns past little pigment being the norm. Unless you mean the third from last mouse example? That's not really capped, and can happen when just a single copy of Wbd is present. I actually haven't gotten an entirely colored head this entire time when working with Charlies. Thank you though for your feedback!

I did have this one turn up long ago with an extremely thin band. Didn't think much of it past it not being suitable for breeding, but isn't Sashed usually displayed in a smaller white zone then banded?









*edited to resize pic, was huge.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I assume the pic wasn't meant to indicate that only that exact head marking was feasible, but that head markings in general are feasible, and that that could include capped. Fortunately, the author of the article is here, too, and will hopefully weigh in when it's not oh-dark-thirty UK time. It does, however, look in your doe photo like you also have s in the line?


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Laigaie said:


> I assume the pic wasn't meant to indicate that only that exact head marking was feasible, but that head markings in general are feasible, and that that could include capped. Fortunately, the author of the article is here, too, and will hopefully weigh in when it's not oh-dark-thirty UK time. It does, however, look in your doe photo like you also have s in the line?


Thank you for your feedback, I really do appreciate it.  You're right, I guess I've been assuming that those were the most common patterns to have cropped up during her time breeding, not that they were general zones. I hope she does shed some light here, whenever she hops on.

The sketchy agouti doe is from my line of charlies that I've been selectively breeding more & more pigment onto. It took forEVER to pop her out, albeit, probably could have happened faster is I hadn't taken a break from breeding. Head & rump were common areas for pigment to crop up, then shoulders & lower back region, but she has the most color up to date. I was surprised that the pigment didn't move in a thick spots, and rather came in similar to variegated. I mostly included her up there to demonstrate if Shashed was being hidden by the charlies' white coat all along, that her pigment ends in a fairly straight line where Sashed would have showed up on a self mouse.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Just realized that Cait never popped in. Is she not still on this forum much? That would be sad. I hate to be a broken record, but if you're interested in talking banded with somebody, she's really awesome and... on FB. She has gotten married, so PM me (or FB me, as I think we're on all the same groups? She's on UMC group) if you want her new name. I noticed it wasn't updated on her site for some reason, and figured she might be after privacy.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Still here I'm afraid Maggie  Sorry, I didn't see this thread until it was pointed out to me on Facebook.

I never got a capped mouse out of my bandeds as far as I can remember. I would have thought them more likely to come out of dutch mice, which is s/s to the best of my knowledge. You can get thin bands with both sashed and banded, but I think banded is more common, at least in the UK. If you breed your heterozygous bandeds to an unrelated self, what do you get in a litter?


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm glad you popped in!

I haven't outcrossed with anything for a longtime now, so I would need to find a self doe to breed with my charlie buck. The original doe X self buck resulted in a litter of both banded & self mice. I did acquire some self tan mice that are done with quarantine, but as I start working at a camp on Sunday, so I can't really pair anything until the 28th of July. :/

While that argente was the only thin banded mouse I have a picture of/can remember, this is what most of my litters looked like in regards to band size:
*Edit, that was a huge picture. Look at my avatar, same difference.

As for figuring out 100% if they are carrying sashed, I know I would need to test breed to a self buck not carrying anything. Behold my MS paint skills! (Does the sequence of events look right?)









The isolating banded phase would take foreeever, like, the better part of a year, and require a large amount of mice to back track selfs from. I would probably need a mouse shed. It would definitely be easier starting over with someone else's established lines, but not as rewarding.

Mousebreeder, do you have any pictures of charlies you've had in the past? I know they are often unnecessary to banded breeding, so I understand if you don't have anything.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't have any photos of charlies I'm afraid, but they were just BEW mice that sometimes had the odd splodge of colour. You might find this interesting: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=mice sash banded&f=false


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