# Not Another "ID Please"!



## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes, I'm sorry, yet another thread about what color is this... I actually have an idea of what this might be, but she has some unusual markings....


























I'm thinking marten sable? But what are the dark patches on her back? I'm pretty sure the dark skullpatch is just from molting, but the dark stripe/spots on her back are different. She also has a very faint white marking in the third picture, on her flank behind the dark spot, but I'm assuming that's just pied...

Also, what is the genetic difference between marten sable and the regular red/black sable? Thanks all!


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## Kingnoel (Apr 23, 2011)

The difference is Marten Sable is c^ch c^ch at the c locus, sable is C*.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

ok, since I got a chinchilla in the batch, this girl being a marten sable is quite likely... But IS she a sable? I've never seen one in real life, so I don't know. What makes a mouse a sable at all?


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Does anyone else notice the darker markings on her head, and the two spots on her back? Also looks like some white marbling coming up her left back leg, somewhat in the leg-pit there. Idk what that makes her, but with all the talk of brindles, can any other varieties looks stripey?


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## maddeh (Jul 14, 2011)

Marten sables have the gradual change between a dark upper body, and light belly. I always think of them as if someone took a fox and blended that perfect line  
SarahY breeds this variety so she should be able to shed some light on it 
I have no idea what the markings mean though...


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Like I said, I think that dark head patch is just her molting... And the white on her flank I've been assuming is a pied marking, but brindle is possible, especially with the dark spots on her back.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Looks like a molting sable of some shade to me. They're notorious for having blotchy molts.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

It looks like a marten sable to me. Unless you are very careful with selective breeding, all shaded mice (both types of sables and all colourpointed mice) suffer from horrendous moult marks, that's what those marks are.

A marten sable is usually Ay/at c(ch)/c(ch), normal sable is Ay/at C/*. I say 'usually' because I assume that brindle and recessive red can make marten sables of sorts.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok, so you think the marks on her back are moult marks too? I guess I'll see over the next few days... Once a moult is begun, how long does it take for an adult to completely moult? But you are sure she's a sable? Isn't Ay the dom red gene? I thought we didn't have that in the US, except for select breeders. I got this girl from Petco...


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Autumn2005 said:


> Ok, so you think the marks on her back are moult marks too? I guess I'll see over the next few days... Once a moult is begun, how long does it take for an adult to completely moult? But you are sure she's a sable? Isn't Ay the dom red gene? I thought we didn't have that in the US, except for select breeders. I got this girl from Petco...


Like sarah mentioned there are other ways to make a mouse that looks like Ay/at cch/cch sable.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

As I said, it's _usually_ dominant red. I can only tell you what it is from your photograph, and your photograph shows a moulty marten sable *shrug*.

It's moult will last forever unfortunately. Once they get those moult marks they never get rid of them and any show career is over :roll: :lol:


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

So... she's more likely a brindle or RY? I have some RY bucks I can put her to, to see if she breeds more RY. For brindle, breed to a non-agouti self, see if any have more typical brindle markings?


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Autumn2005 said:


> Like I said, I think that dark head patch is just her molting... And the white on her flank I've been assuming is a pied marking, but brindle is possible, especially with the dark spots on her back.


Oops, I'm sorry, I missed that bit at the end of your post...  Interesting to learn about how molts affect the different coats, I didn't think it would be so obvious obvious/severe.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I've had some pretty bad moults before, so I recognized that skullcap right away. It was just the ones one the back that threw me.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

She could perhaps be Avy/at cch/cch, especially if your molt marks don't go away. Petco's suppliers are drowning in brindle, and have recently had some rather odd varieties. Perhaps they've changed suppliers again, or perhaps their supplier has gotten new stock.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I think I had one of those before, but it was a completely different shade, so who knows? Ah pet store mice... When ever you need a good mystery, there you are. :nar


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