# What happened to Howard?



## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

My most recent merle litter was a failure. The mother only looked moderately pregnant, like maybe she'd only have six or eight babies. But then holy crap! She gave birth to the 14 tiniest, frailest pinkies ever. The mother was in good health, about 9mos old, and this is her third and final litter. The first two litters were entirely normal. I immediately culled all but the four most robust pinkies in the hope that some of them could be saved with extra milk. But in the few days after the birth 3 out of 4 of them simply disappeared, presumably eaten by mom. The last one seemed to develop fine for the first week, and then rapidly became emaicated. I would have culled him, but my roommate is absolutely in love with the sad little thing. I thought perhaps his mom's milk had dried up or something, so I tried introducing him to another lactating doe and feeding him kitten formula, but neither seemed to help. He was just a big head with a skeleton body. My roommate kept saying, "he might get better, please just give him one more day, I love him!". He managed to reach the point where he began eating solid food and as soon as he did, he immediately gained weight and vitality. Now he is a very lively, surprisingly friendly little dude named Howard Moon (any Mighty Boosh fans out there?). He is a merle fuzzy, but while ill most of his coat fell out. Any idea what's wrong with him?

[the other baby in the pix is his foster brother, who is about a week and a half younger. Howard is about 3wks in the photos]


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## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

he looks like a hairless mouse ... very cute


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

cute, cause could be so many things is howard the result of same father as other litters from your doe?

Had you changed the diet at all either leading up to pairing or during pregnacy?

Off the top of my head it may be a form of dwarfism at work, mineral deficiency during pregnancy digestive imbalanece, or some other unknown lethal gene that has arisen.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

pro-petz said:


> cute, cause could be so many things is howard the result of same father as other litters from your doe?
> 
> Had you changed the diet at all either leading up to pairing or during pregnacy?
> 
> Off the top of my head it may be a form of dwarfism at work, mineral deficiency during pregnancy digestive imbalanece, or some other unknown lethal gene that has arisen.


Yes, Howard's mom and dad had one previous litter together, which was entirely healthy. His mom and dad are full brother and sister (they're merle carriers). No diet changes before, during or after breeding. A metabolic or digestive problem is sort of what I assumed. A similar thing happened to my dog when he was an infant- he didn't seem to be able to gain nutrition from his mother's milk or from formula (even tho his littermates did) and became very malnourished and underdeveloped. But as soon as the puppy was weaned, the solid food did him a world of good and he's now perfectly healthy if a bit undersized.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

Howard suddenly changed into a regular mouse! He's now around 7 weeks and all at once he grew a coat of hair, developed testicles, and doubled in size. What a strange surprise! [His coat is only so weird and thin because he's long-haired fuzzy]


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

Certainly does look alot healthier now, makes me think even more that it was a dietary/digestive problem in his early days. If you decide to breed from him would be interesting to know if any of his offspring develop similar symptoms.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

I'm actually a bit curious to breed him myself. I will give him a few months to see if he continues to stay healthy. He's nearly as big now as his pet-type relatives. If he produces more healthy merles that would be great. And if he produced more sickly late-bloomers it would let me know that I had a problem in that line. And if he produced more hairless dwarves I would die of the cute


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

I would personally pair him to a test doe (feeder mouse) as that way you are not wasting a valuable litter if things do not show in the right direction, and nothing lost if things are good and would still show if you have a problem or not with that line.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

I thought I would pair him with a close relative because 1) if he had healthy offspring, they'd be merle and 2) if there is something genetically weird about him I would assume it would most likely pop up in an inbred pairing, like a recessive sort of thing.


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

I suggested the feeder mouse as you can breed them earlier even though not recommended but then breed again when hes older as you thought if nothing bad shows.

For some strange reason I have found that feeder mice do not appear to show the same effects as show mice when breeding them younger, and make excellent foster parents when needed by completely swapping their babies so am able to keep alot more of the kits from the show mice pairings.

Downside of it is more space required and more food to buy each month.


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## bonsai (Oct 14, 2012)

Good boy,Howard.
Such a well growing.It's fantastic.
I really feel happy for you,madmouse.
He remembers me of Mulli,one of my mousebucks in the past.I loved him with his few curled hairs.
When I became him I had no idea whats going on with his coat becauce this kind of mice was completly new for me.

Best wishes for your breeding plans and have nice christmas days.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

Pro-petz: I have noticed the same phenomenon with breeding feeders. They seem to hold up better under more frequent, bigger, and earlier litters. But I think that must be "natural" selection: show mice you pamper and support them and breed them "gently", so even the weakest of mothers will make it. But feeders are more disposable, only the strongest best breeders survive because the typical feeder breeder is not concerned with nursing weak moms.


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

madmouse said:


> I thought I would pair him with a close relative because 1) if he had healthy offspring, they'd be merle and 2) if there is something genetically weird about him I would assume it would most likely pop up in an inbred pairing, like a recessive sort of thing.


This is one of the strengths of inbreeding - you get to see any genetic problems, even if they're recessive. My view is if there are any bad recessives floating around, I'd rather know about them.


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