# Two-year update, + questions



## meromar (Aug 27, 2016)

As the title says, it's been just under two years now since I first posted to this forum... And I finally have my first mice!

It happened quite on accident. I was out in my yard one day when I spotted a young mouse laying on the ground. Its eyes where clouded and milky / white, though this cleared up within a day at the very most. Can anyone explain what caused this?










I took it inside, set it on a towel-wrapped heating pad on the lowest setting, and shortly started trying to feed it with a small brush dipped in puppy formula, sometimes with softened cereal mixed in. I estimated it to be 12-14 to 21 days old, but it very well could have been older for all I know. I would love to hear a more knowledgeable person's opinion 










The first day or two were very much touch-and-go, with the mouse seeming very weak and not moving much at all. There were a couple of times where I was certain it wouldn't survive the night, or even the next couple of hours. But it did, and by its fourth day with me it was very active, drinking water and eating on its own.

After just under a month with me, I finally realized that this mouse, which I was so certain was a "she", is actually a boy :lol: Although I had already bought "her" a female PEW companion by this point, I didn't mind too much as I had intended to eventually breed this mouse anyway, being a fan of the smaller size and type of wild mice (but with, eventually, the disposition of fancy mice).










It's now been two months since I found him and he's doing well, very healthy and active and social. I plan on introducing a second female soon. 










All of this has been a great learning experience for me, but I have questions about breeding. I hear the occasional squeak at night which seems to indicate mating taking place, but I can't be sure, and as my buck is around 10-11 weeks old at least I expected different behavior and a stronger breeding response, especially from a wild mouse. Is this normal, or if not is there anything I can do to facilitate a stronger mating response? Or am I simply being too impatient? I have a hunch as well that my doe may possibly be post-reproductive, and so I plan on acquiring a younger animal in the near future whether or not that be the case. I was wondering also if the size difference could be a hindrance or concern.

Thank you everyone for your help and advice! I have so much in mind for this project, and I'm very excited.


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## Amtma Mousery (Jan 29, 2015)

How long have they been together? Gestation is at least 20 days.

Unless the albino doe has a great personality, I suggest breeding to an alternative doe- petstore mice often have horrible genes. The albinism is an indicator that the mouse likely originates from a facility that breeds feeder mice and neglect their stock from a pet perspective.


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## meromar (Aug 27, 2016)

Lake Mousery said:


> How long have they been together? Gestation is at least 20 days.
> 
> Unless the albino doe has a great personality, I suggest breeding to an alternative doe- petstore mice often have horrible genes. The albinism is an indicator that the mouse likely originates from a facility that breeds feeder mice and neglect their stock from a pet perspective.


Thank you for taking the time to respond! 

They've been together for around a month and a half or a little longer, with my buck possibly not being sexually mature yet for some of that time. The doe was certainly intended to be just a non-breeding companion animal before I realized my wild mouse was a male, but even still, pet stores are my only available source of mice that I'm aware of, and I steered clear of shops that had visibly unhealthy stock. I will also be breeding my mice as feeders to a limited extent (I only have a single snake at the moment which will only ever need four mice a month at most), and I otherwise don't necessarily consider them pets as I typically would my other animals -- only one has a name, and my interactions with them are limited to regular handling and observing to monitor their health and cage cleaning / feeding / etc. I have them for selective breeding projects which I've been planning for several years.

Are there any specific health concerns I should keep in mind / keep an eye out for with my doe and any future pet store stock I acquire? Are there any problems inherent to pet store stock that aren't as commonly seen in animals produced by smaller-scale breeders? The first doe I purchased as a companion animal did in fact die within three or four days and never seemed to be a particularly lively animal. I made the assumption that she had simply been sold towards the end of her natural lifespan as she otherwise showed no signs of illness or poor health, but now I'm uncertain.


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## Amtma Mousery (Jan 29, 2015)

Well if they are feeders, then this discussion is not really necessary. Generally speaking, pet store mice are of very low quality animals as pets and breeding stock because they often have/carry health ailments and negative temperaments. Small-scale breeders breed (hopefully) for healthy mice and possibly to show standards. Large breeding companies just want quantity and fast maturity with minimal feed consumption.

If you want pups, just get another doe or a new buck. There are too many factors that could be the cause of their unsuccessful breeding. They look healthy though. Variation in size does not affect breeding success, at least for my mice.


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## meromar (Aug 27, 2016)

Lake Mousery said:


> Well if they are feeders, then this discussion is not really necessary. Generally speaking, pet store mice are of very low quality animals as pets and breeding stock because they often have/carry health ailments and negative temperaments. Small-scale breeders breed (hopefully) for healthy mice and possibly to show standards. Large breeding companies just want quantity and fast maturity with minimal feed consumption.
> 
> If you want pups, just get another doe or a new buck. There are too many factors that could be the cause of their unsuccessful breeding. They look healthy though. Variation in size does not affect breeding success, at least for my mice.


Only a very small portion of the pups I produce will go on to be feeders, but regardless of that I still very much want to produce healthy animals, and a good disposition and temperament is one of the goals I have in mind for this project 

Thank you so much for your advice -- I will definitely be acquiring a second doe very soon. My current doe doesn't have a negative temperament at all and, at least on the surface, appears to be a healthy animal. I'll be keeping a close eye on her and any pups produced from pet store stock in the hopes of avoiding any problems in my animals -- their health comes first, always, regardless of my intention for their use. I certainly have no delusion of ever producing show quality mice :lol: But I am hoping to at least be able to reach my goals, and health is my #1 concern. Thank you for making me aware!


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## meromar (Aug 27, 2016)

So I went by the store today for my weekly pet shopping and just my luck, there were no does in stock.  There were some gorgeous bucks though, so I'm hoping my luck will be better next week!


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