# First litter



## MiceMad

After really struggling to find mice in this area over the years we have lived here, we had the idea of breeding and keeping most the offspring (we have two pet shops we trust willing to take any extras, one wants the males and one wants the girls). We're trying to wrap our heads around mouse genetics so eventually we could focus on colours, but for our first few litters we're getting ourselves used to it and weren't bothered about colours. We made sure we could keep the whole litter if good homes weren't available - the only issue would be if we had more than 15 boys as we don't have that many separate cages atm but we could easily set up more RUBs.

Well our first female gave birth two days ago. I left the nest for a few days because I didn't want to stress her out, but she's been acting just as friendly as ever so today I lifted the house and had a peek whilst she was distracted with a cheerio! We have at least six babies in there, everyone seems healthy! Rubbish pic but it'll do and I'll try post some photos every day or two 



And our other female which we had in with the male at the same time is fit to burst too! She's been fairly small the whole pregnancy up to the last few days. I dropped a load of food in today and won't disturb her for a few days now.





It's so exciting! The only experience I have with baby mice was as a kid one of my pet shop mice came home pregnant. Watching those babies grow was amazing and they turned out to be the happiest, most confident, mice I've ever known so hoping these little ones grow up to be as happy around humans


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## Lilly

Congrats on your first litter 

It is great that you have petshops lined up and can keep all of the first litter, however just wanted to say that if you are breeding to be able to supply the biggest healthiest mice to your area then you may want to consider culling down the size of the litters.

Mice only have 10 teats so any litter size over 10 is going to have ones fighting for milk and usually end up with quite a few runty or smaller ones. Even if they all grow up they're never going to be as big or reach their full potential compared to ones from smaller litters. It is very noticeable the size different even between 4 babies and 6 in my mice and even though I recently kept a litter of 10 because getting more of the variety I wanted so I can focus on them without them going extinct was more important than their immediate size, they are tiny compared to my smaller litters


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## MiceMad

Thanks!!!  I was wondering about culling, because I don't want to put too much strain on Alexa, the mum, I hadn't thought about it affecting the eventual size of the babies either. What is the cut off point where you would consider culling then, anything above about eight babies per litter, or anything above ten?

(I'm guessing I can't ask how to go about culling here I'd have to join the culling forum bit?)

Also when would I cut litter size down if I thought I needed to, because so far I haven't touched the nest at all so don't know how many babies are in there - I didn't want to stress Alexa out at all, trigger her to munch etc so other than two peeks without touching the nest I've not done anything. It's day 2 now, I was going to start early handling (just check everyone out basically, not remove from cage) around day 5 because Alexa already seems comfortable around us - how does that sound? Can I in fact handle earlier than that with minimal risk?

Again thank you


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## Lilly

The danger of them munching from handling is very very low and although munching can happen its almost always for other reasons and usually unavoidable.

The easiest time to cull them is from day 1-3 but you can do it at any point (just the methods are different) but unless the litter is massive I will leave them until day 3 just in case it helps get the milk coming in better so there's lots for the ones you keep to have after. You are correct in saying that you cannot talk about methods here but you can pm people to talk about it if you are unsure.

For handling I will do it from day 1 although I will usually remove the mum first to another container with some treats while I do and keep it short so they don't get cold. Honestly I would prefer to have the mum used to me handling and happy with it because I find handling regularly and they don't even get the usual flea stage


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## MiceMad

Ah that's great to know, thank you so much for your help! I will have a brief handle of the babies later today then and get some decent photos ^__^ I have read one main method to cull pinkies, can I pm you about it just to check it's the most humane way?

Also Carmella has given birth in the night so I will be having a quick peek at her litter later today too! Oh the excitement :lol:


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## MiceMad

After counting the babies I found she had TWELVE, and I was worried because I didn't see many milk bellies.z\


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## MiceMad

Ugh, my cat posted that >__<

So we had twelve and I was worried that was waaaay too much! We selected three (one was smaller and not really moving) and culled them. Unsure if I should cull more? They are 2.5 days old now. I have photos to post on how you think they are size and weight-wise. Such a big litter for a first time mum >__<


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## MiceMad

Apologies for multiple multiple posts, but here are some pics.

These are Alexa's babies, they are about 2.5 days old, give or take a few hours!


How do they look weight wise? I saw a few milk bellies but not as big and obvious as in other photos I've seen.



Everyone was moving and squeaking 





She has 9 babies total now





And just a little quick peek at Carmella's litter!





Rebuilding her nest


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## Lilly

A few of them do look a bit underweight and milk bands should be very visible and cause round little bellies with a big white band after feeding, you could have just caught them when they hadn't nursed for a while. The one on its own in your hand in the last picture of the 2.5 day old litter looks pretty underweight and the top baby in the second picture (not sure if they are the same one or not lol). With that being the case if it was my litter I would consider culling a couple of bucks (since they tend to hog the milk more than does) but you've done a really good job so far 

Congrats on the second litter too  its nice they're pretty close in age so can grow on together later on.


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## MiceMad

Thank you so much ^__^

We culled another three just now, because I really want to give these babies the best start and am worried there are just too many and they are skinny. We picked the smallest / skinniest ones, and left ones that had a more obvious milk belly. I didn't think to sex them (didn't know bucks were greedier!) drat...some definitely do have milk bellies but it's still not as big or obvious as I've seen in pics :/ Today we bought some milk bones in as I'd read they were high in protein and good for pregnant does or new mums, I had no idea if that would help milk production or whatever but thought it was worth a shot. We have been offering scrambled egg but they don't like it, so they've had dog and ferret kibble for higher protein %.

Alexa now has 6 babies in with her so hoping that's a much more manageable size for her and they can fatten up.

Also had a proper look at Carmella's babies and it looks like she has a litter of ten, aaagh what is with these two?!? So late tomorrow we will check everyone out and probably cull a few to help mum and babies out. I was kinda hoping she'd have a really small litter so we could slip two of Alexa's babies under her, but nope!

I'll post some pics soon, and thank you again for your help!


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## Lilly

That should help out a lot with milk, especially if for whatever reason she isn't producing as much 

Cooked chicken, dried mealworms, milkbones, dog food are all nice ways to supplement them when they are pregnant/nursing.

10/12 babies is actually pretty normal. In the wild they'd have lots but as with most cases, many are expected to not make it.


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## MiceMad

If Carmella has ten babies and they are thriving can I leave them all with her, or would you still recommend reducing by a few so it's easier for her? I'd read a few posts where litters were 16-18 pinks and was just hoping Alexa wouldn't have that many hahaha, she was getting so big over the last week


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## MiceMad

Managed to double post somehow


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## MiceMad

MiceMad said:


> Just checked out Carmella's litter and am happy to report 11 little pinkies with nice obvious milk bellies, yay! These guys were also much more wriggly, active and vocal than Alexa's litter which I took to be a good sign. Very sweet little babies <3
> 
> Pics of Carmella's litter (@ 1 day old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Alexa's 6, at 2-3 days old:
> 
> 
> 
> Caught some much better looking milk bellies


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## Lilly

Those milk bands are looking good on both litters now. Alexa's pup in the last picture looks like it has a really nice one


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## MiceMad

So happy to hear this!! :gwavebw Hoping both mums can keep this up!


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## MiceMad

Checked on Alexa's babies (3-4 days old) and they are looking so much better!! Not only are there some wonderful milk bands going on, but I think they're looking much chunkier too ^__^



Really happy with them now they just look so much better. They're still a lot less active than Carmella's little livewires though!!





Everyone has milk :mrgreen:





And my favourite photo to show how well they're doing - LOOK AT THIS GUY!! (I was being very gentle with him don't worry  )



Alexa's litter is 2 days old now and everybody is looking great - these guys are serious wrigglers!! They twitch about all over the place and when they make noise it's really loud :lol:



Some really nice milk bellies going on too Carmella seems to be doing great with her milk 







Also I think we can see some darker colouring coming through. It's not as easy to see in the photos, I think this one shows it best, but I have a short video clip where you can see some darker bubs a lot better:








Is it just wishful thinking because I can't wait to see what colours we have, or do we have some darker little ones??

Finally look at this little love :lol:


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## Lilly

I love the last photo, just so adorable.

In the video it looks like you have some pied, not sure what color they will be but it looks like there's definite patches of darker color. Although sometimes at that age the pigment comes through unevenly, give it a couple more days you'll you'll be able to tell a lot better


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## FlufferNutter

Oh yeah, that last pic is adorable! Congrats on your first litters! When the fur comes in, but before the eyes open is totally the cutest phase, looking forward to more pics.


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## MiceMad

Thanks Lilly!! Little booger was lying like that for a good few minutes and I could hardly stand the cuteness! We cut three bubs from Carmella's litter yesterday evening, so she's down to 8 now - she'd been doing really really well feeding them but I hadn't seen as many bulging milk bellies. I'm so impatient haha I can't wait to see what colours everyone is, today we had a go at sexing Carmella's litter and think we have an even split...testing our sexing abilities by this being the first time we've sexed young mice and starting at 3 days old!! Will be interesting to see how off we are :lol:

FlufferNutter I can't get over how cute these babies are! My dad thinks they're absolutely repulsive, he enjoys looking at mice so I sent him some photos of the pinkies and he said he was gonna have nightmares :lol: I can't wait for them to get fur so I can see what colours we have and hopefully tell everyone apart better...only a few more days to wait, right?


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## MiceMad

I am so excited to share these pics haha, the little ones have changed so much ^__^

Alexa's litter's colours are now getting so clear (lots of doves and fawns!) and the markings are just adorable, I can't wait as they grow more hair!! They are now six (possibly seven but we've gone for the later DOB) days old and for the first time felt fuzzy when being picked up today 



So far my favourites are an almost solid coloured baby and one little love has a white patch around their eye which is just too cute!!



They are starting to really crawl about and explore now :mrgreen: I don't think I'll be able to hold the entire litter in one hand much longer haha!





Our Chihuahua loves checking on the pinks 



Carmella's litter are five days old but we've always noticed they've seemed more advanced than Alexa's litter despite being a day under, so we're unsurprised their colours are almost as clear as the older litters.





I was really surprised with how many dove babies it looks like Carmella has had, I guess I was expecting more fawn and lighter coloured mice after her...love it!


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## Lilly

Aww very cute! Some lovely pied in there, always love seeing what markings you can get


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## SarahC

and maybe one or two banded which I really like in marked mice.


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## MiceMad

Thanks Lilly and SarahC :mrgreen: They're getting unbelievably cute and mobile now - it won't be long until their eyes are opening!!

Apologies for not posting for a few days, especially at such an exciting time! I've been having daily seizures so haven't had much energy, but I have been taking pics of the bubs everyday and the amount they have changed in just a few days is, as ever, incredible 

Alexa's litter are 9 days old now and we have some beautiful beautiful babies!!



The two silvers are slightly different shades, and there are two golden ones (fawn?) and a slightly darker baby too - have their colours stopped changing at this point?



You can see the browny shade better in this pic





The silver baby in this pic is the lighter of the two



Darker silver here and two more beautiful golden babies 



Carmella's litter are 8 days old and these guys show up some really interesting colours in photos - in person they look one solid dark-rust colour, but in photos you can see all these different tones!





These are my definite keepers from Carmella's litter, I just can't stand how cute these two are!!



Oh seriously, HOW CUTE?!



Love the nose on this little one :mrgreen:


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## meromar

Oh my, they're all so cute! Congratulations on them! I look forward to more updates when you're able and have the time -- health comes first, of course


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## MiceMad

Thanks meromar :mrgreen: It's crazy how fast these babies grow, I won't post pics for a few days and they look like completely different mice :lol:

Alexa's litter, 12 days 





The one closest to the camera is the darker browny one in person





Carmi's litter at 11 days



I LOVE the fawn girl with the white nose tip and the solid silver, both these are keepers 



(I say this girl is solid, she has a tiny white dot on one side!!)


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## Lilly

aww so sweet!

Looks like Alexa's will open their eyes in the next day or two, epitome of cuteness!


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## MiceMad

You were spot on, we have an oldest litter of peepers today!! Everyone but one little boy haha  So cute watching them see the world for the first time and all of a sudden they're climbing all over the place 

Tate is the middle boy who is still blind, bless him!


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## MiceMad

Both litters are 3 weeks old now, and yesterday morning we moved the mums and both litters into one big cage together. Carmella was really happy to see Alexa and the babies had no issues at all, I saw Alexa caring for Carmella's babies quite a few times too 





All the babies are drinking water and eating solids now



Alexa with one of her babies and one of Carmella's 

:mrgreen:



And lots of babies!!





Keeper (f)



Keeper (f)



Keeper (m)



And we have another boy keeper too.

Other babies!


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## Viverrinae

I just absolutely adore the color gradients on some of those babies!! absolutely beautiful.


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