# New additions :D



## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

I had some reptile/bug stuff I needed to move to make more room for mice & had a friend needing to get rid of some mice, perfect match! All I knew was I was getting "tans", "blacks", & "greys". Little disappointed as I was hoping the grey might be blues, but he ended up not having enough when he checked.

No PE in the group. Thinking almost everything is RY with heavy soot besides the "blacks".

New pied buck




























New self buck, has a creamy belly, no PE. The guy also dropped some rats off before meeting me, the girl was a mutual friend. She said if she had need to breed mice, she'd have begged to take this one 



















Now the does. The three adult females feel like they could all potentially be pregnant. Didn't take pictures of all as they are very similar minus look appears to be a very poor longhair. They also look worse then when I got them home. I woke up this morning to find their water bottle had completely leaked out during the night. They looked like somewhat drowned rats  I felt horrible. The does are good creatures & most the youngsters were piled up on top of them. Was brought a random assorted of youngsters & I picked out only a few young does to raise up.










Least amount of sooty.



















One of the younger does. The guy said they generally lost a lot of the black as they got older.



















One of my favorites. Little doe, probably a runt or just a product of a large litter. To cute not to give a chance, my own over sized litter is gaining size nicely. Has the same yellow/sooty going on.



















Some blacks. Not sure if they are really black or chocolate. Have some variation in shade going on.










Regular plain jane brown?


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## blackbirdmice (Oct 27, 2012)

Most look brindle to me, the plain brown looks like it has ticking so I would say agouti. The little one with a lot of black is super cute.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I really like the yellow one,like it lots.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

blackbirdmice said:


> Most look brindle to me, the plain brown looks like it has ticking so I would say agouti. The little one with a lot of black is super cute.


Yeah, the only one I would consider RY out of the bunch is the self buck at the beginning, maybe the second doe. Otherwise all of the "sooty" mice look like brindles. I would also say agouti for your last doe.

It's too bad the water bottle leaked, hopefully clean up wasn't terrible!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

If they all came from the same place, with all those brindles, it's quite likely that the yellows and agoutis are also brindle, just undermarked and overmarked.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

Thanks! Good to know, I may not want brindle running rampent. Will try the self yellow on something else not from this stock to test him.

I have seen some stuff on brindles being prone to obesity and tumors, is this both brindles or just the US or UK version?

No, the mess wasn't to bad  I just felt horrible! Had settled the does into a tub until tonight/tomorrow so I can break them into groups, so there shavings were really low 

The bucks are funny, very talkative.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Brindles like these are an American variety (UK has mobr brindles, a sex-linked variety). I've honestly not seen someone over there breeding them, though it's my understanding someone in the EU had imported some? Anyway, they are prone to obesity, yes, and do need to be bred before they get too fat. I hadn't heard of a particular prevalence of tumors in them, but obesity is a biggie. It really depends on who you ask whether it hurts them. Some folks are insistent that they're all diabetic and tortured. Other folks insist that it's nothing more dangerous than being genetically prone to obesity as a human, and with no more health risk. Mostly, they're fat, tend to be too lazy to breed, but snuggly.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

Kind of annoyed then on paper, will see how things go in reality. Mostly got these to go in my feeder breeder bins :x Oh well, I have PEWs from good lines for producing.

Found this which helped me some:
http://www.afrma.org/brindlemice.htm

Was thinking they'd make good helper does, but after reading, it sounds like they don't need to share anything foodwise with pregnant does! I don't blame the guy, most likely he had a high turn over & would have never noticed


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

Really kicking myself in the butt. I should have kept more black does.

Can brindle be hidden on black?


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Brindle is dominant over black. Bred to black, you might or might not get some blacks.

Also, though Nichole is a great breeder, her advice to keep brindles away from grain-based diets and on lab block is frankly silly. Lab-block is a grain-based diet. It just is. Look at the ingredient list! Dieting your brindles will not keep them from getting fat, either. It will not prolong their breeding cycle. It will starve them. That is all it will do. Their fat cells are genetically pre-determined, and will not get larger or smaller depending on how you feed them (unless you feed them really awful food, but surely you're not feeding them hamster chow or nothing but dog food or something equally egregious). Dieting your mice is just starving them. And dieting your mice by only giving them lab block (which is chiefly made of wheat, soy, and corn) is missing the point anyway.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

NikiP said:


> Really kicking myself in the butt. I should have kept more black does.
> 
> Can brindle be hidden on black?


Here's a link to the finnmouse's brindle page.
http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/brindle.html

*Edited, realized it had different brindle causing genes up, I don't really know the answer for the Avy one.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

Thanks everyone! Brain overload now! My plan right now is to let the adult does raise the younger does up. Will probably test breed the blacks and brown with a RY, see if any brindles are produced. Don't know yet if ill keep or cull any brindles. The older does will be retired to helpers if their weights become an issue/have smaller litter issues. Will cull the brindle pied buck. I like his color, but I've got the little doe in the same coloring.

And I have no intention of dieting them!


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

The RY you're thinking of test breeding them with, I'm assuming it's unrelated/from a different breeder then this lot? *Am stalking away on your old posts, but can't find a thread about them.*


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

On my screen your self buck is such a lovely peachy color! I've seen that diagnosed as under marked brindle though. No idea how to retain that shade if it is brindle. A bit concerned about both the males being 'talkative'? That is not a normal thing in mice.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

Frizzle, Yes, I have an unrelated RY pied buck. From reading, sounds like using a RY would be good one to help the brindle come out to play with test breedings, or is there another color I should seek out?

Glow, ugh! Don't say that  Guess i'll be testing him out as well.

I just went & messed with the boys, sounds like it's just the yellow male when he is moving. The new group is segregated from my established mice in a separate room. I do all care for the old ones, wash my hands, then I care for the new guys. Will place both the bucks on paper towels & do what I can to cut down on any possibility of dust & see how things go. I assume a URI in mice was a clicking noise? This sounds more like chatter? Looked it up on youtube, only found a couple of videos with any noise being made.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm guessing not the buck in your intro post? And for testing RY to make sure its not brindle, I'd guess I don't know which base coat is most likely to make brindle *pop* I guess I'd go with a few agouti's, and if the litters all pop out yellowy mice, then it's probably brindle. (not to say that the unrelated does couldn't have the possibility of carrying RY, just unlikely that if you test bred 3 unrelated does that they would all carry RY)

Depending on the living conditions the boys came from, URI's can also cause scaring in the lungs that result in the "purring" noise regardless of if they have an active URI. So it may not be current, but I'd suggest treating them like they are.

*Edited to add: As in, they had a URI at one time, but now just have messed up lungs from it.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

They were in a rack, but that's as much as I know. Not hearing any sneezing, will treat & keep an eye on it during QT. Yay for good QT practices!

Yes, the RY pied in my intro post. I was thinking of using him on the blacks & the couple of "browns" does to see if they are hiding brindle.

I have a sooty RY female unrelated to this new group that I could try with the new RY self buck. Otherwise all I have are dark colored or PEW (from PEW lines, no clue what is under there) does from unrelated sources.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

And I just wanted to say that I don't mean to come off as horrible being so anti-brindle  Brindles are lovely, I like the looks of what I got & they are terribly cute. I have limited room & certain goals. I will keep & breed a few (i've been anal about my tracking since I got mice. Will be able to not let it run rampant.)


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh, last I saw you said he had a darkish undercoat, was thinking it was figured he was argente not RY.

Well, at least he's a buck, much easier to get lots of different test breedings in then does, so good you've got that going for you to weed out brindle. And I agree, while brindles can be lovely, (like most others) if it's not something you wanted the challenge of breeding, then it can be really crushing to find out when you have it. I dodged a bullet with brindles myself when I started out. With the tan line I'll be working with, I am a bit nervous as the buck to the 4 does I have is brindle, and I've a black & doves, both which can make it hard to see stripes on.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

I did think he was argente. Talked to ThatCertainGlow & cleared up some stuff about RY for me. I was seeing a darker skin, but the roots aren't dark. Will be certain soon enough, first litter is due sometime next week  Retaining a few daughters to breed back.


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## mousefan (Nov 3, 2012)

I love them! so cute!!!


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