# I just thought I would share.



## eolas Sionnach

So this is little tip(mouse) and cyder my pet snake( a red racer I caught in my shed). These two have been living together for the last two weeks or so and he has conquered the snake :lol: He is also the father of one litter now and two more on the way. He even managed to make friends with one of my mice a brown named mam who has always been exceedingly aggressive towards other mice, so much so that I had to leave her in a tank to herself. They do this very often and after a few scuffles he takes his naps on Cyder's head. Little tip is a brown and to the left corner I am sorry I don't have a better camera for a more clear picture.


----------



## Fantasia Mousery

He's beautiful


----------



## PPVallhunds

eolas Sionnach said:


> They do this very often and after a few scuffles he takes his naps on Cyder's head. Little tip is a brown and to the left corner I am sorry I don't have a better camera for a more clear picture.


This sounds highly irresponsible, so are you saying you leaving this mouse live with the snake. Does that species not eat rodents?


----------



## Hexagram

I looked it up online, and apparently the breed _does_ eat rodents, including mice. But I'm sure the pet owner has a perfectly good reason for leaving the pair together.


----------



## PPVallhunds

There's no perfectly good reason to leave a food animal live in with an animal that ment to eat it. That's just cruelty even people who live feed (not allowed here in the UK unless snake will die) don't leave the mice in if the snake doesn't eat it, due to risk to snake and stress to mouse.


----------



## Fantasia Mousery

Wait, what?
I hadn't seen the mouse, and I hadn't read the text. You need to seperate them immediately. PPV is right, there is absolutely no good reason to keep them together like that, only bad ones.


----------



## candycorn

Not only is the snake capable of eating the mouse...the mouse is very capable of eating the snake! Google mouse ate snake for very graphic reasons to never leave a live rodent in with a reptile!!!


----------



## PPVallhunds

Also how long have you had the snake? if you have only had it the few weeks that could be why it hasnt eaten the mouse yet as you caught it from the wild it will be stressed so will refuse to take up its one defence (its mouth) by eating. Which is why many wild caught snakes have problems feeding. one reason people prefur captive bred animals


----------



## NikiP

Separate now. Like yesterday.

That snake has to be severely stressed. I can't figure out if red racers are their own (Coluber flagellum piceus) or if they were changed to (Masticophis flagellum piceus), anyways, I have an eastern coachwhip. They aren't your average "toss in a hide, a water bowl, & some bedding" type snake. They can be very rewarding captives, but you need to do some serious research if you have any intention on keeping it. And please get it off that gravel! Would do best with a bioactive soil type substrate, or at least deep aspen, with LOTS of hides. Branches, fake plants, pvc tubes, boxes, etc. They also need LOTS of room. These snakes are generally very active, especially in the early morning & late evenings. They can also be very secretive.

Here's my setup










The blue thing is actually a cat litter pan with an opening cut out & buried in the shavings. The white thing is a small trellis with fake plants hanging over. The tank is about 90gal. Has the same foot print as a 40gal breeder, but taller. The glass is also smoked. Eventually it's going to be moved to a 6x4x4 enclosure.


----------



## NikiP

Forgot to point out, they also have higher metabolisms compared to other snakes. Mine gets an adult mouse every other day or I switch it up by skipping an extra day & tossing it two.

They can be very easy or very difficult to get onto f/t. They can also be feeding f/t just fine then go into winter mode & come out refusing everything but live. Starting the process all over again.


----------



## pauly

I'm starting to see why a lot of NMC members don't come on this forum now. :roll:


----------



## AyJay658

Can I ask why Pauly?


----------



## athiena14

NMC?


----------



## WoodWitch

National Mouse Club (of Britain).


----------



## athiena14

ah ok, no wonder I didn't know what it was


----------



## eolas Sionnach

Thanks for the tip on the gravel. usually he eats a mouse as soon as I put one in there with him, that's why this one is unusual also I tried feeders and all i got was a very smelly tank every time. I don 't intend to keep him forever ether I live in a populated area and if i take him to pound he will be killed. In the fall I will be taking a drive out into the far desert and releasing him where he will be safe away from humans. i never had intentions to catch him in the first place, I am purchasing my first home and it is a fixer upper to say the least. I found him in the shed along with the tank. he has no practical defense against neighbor hood pets or children. Also i did not intend to keep them together for any length of time He is a stud I couldn't home so I placed him for a feeder and this is what I found the next day. Also unless I am mistaken if i spoil him on pre-killed mice he won't handle things well when I return him to the wild.


----------



## NikiP

I must be terribly confused.

Why on earth would the pound even cross your mind? Just drive it to some open area away from people & release.

How many mice has it eaten by now anyways? If it's eaten more then a couple, you could cause disastrous results by releasing it. People don't think about what diseases/organisms wild animals may pick up by being fed captive food. In turn you could be releasing stuff that the native animals aren't prepared to deal with. If you are seriously waiting for the fall to release it, you would be better off rehoming it. CL would work, but faunaclassifieds would be better for finding a serious herper. Either of these specific areas would be appropriate for listing it:

www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=502
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/ ... y.php?f=49

Yes, live would be more appropriate before returning to the wild, but live mice should only be left in for a little while. Snake gets a small window of time to eat within then food is removed until the next feeding time.


----------



## eolas Sionnach

Thank you NikiP, the pound where i live will take care of some wild creatures but not snakes, also your right i didn't think of the possible contamination factor. However i can not sell him or give him away as that is classified as poaching out here. I can keep him forever if i wished because of some weird bylaw but because of the temperature here ( between one twenty and one thirty) he needs to be released when it becomes a little cooler so he can find a den before the sun cooks him. Also the mouse and snake have been separated and he has had several mice since i caught him. I feed him the bucks i can't re-home.


----------



## NikiP

Fish & Game in your area might also be a good one to contact. They may be able to release it sooner then the fall.

If you want to keep it, these may help with finding info:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1371231,1371231
http://forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=83#1371231

Going to need a large tank, at least a 40g breeder, lots of hidey spots, & a heat light or heat panel. They do best with an above tank heat source do to their highly active lifestyle to allow for basking.


----------



## GibblyGiblets

I'm not exactly understanding why you felt the need to take the snake from the shed in the first place? if it got in, it could get back out, you could've just left it alone and it would have moved on, it was most likely in your shed in the first place because there were/are mice in there.

not to mention it's a wild snake which could carry parasites on it's scales that could have been passed to the mouse which in turn would have been passed to the females when you bred him.

I handle a lot of wild snakes to get them off the property because if my cats don't get them first my grandfather would kill them, but I would never intend to keep them, I just take them up the hill and let them go.

kudos for your good intentions, but you should remove the mouse, just because the snake won't eat him now, doesn't mean it won't.


----------



## eolas Sionnach

i live in a populated area and not but three weeks ago my neighbors killed the same kind of snake because "it's a snake", i am surrounded by miles of housing and if i want to release him( which i will) i have to drive pretty far out to keep him from wandering back into human area. I have dogs and kids and if he had encountered ether of them things would probably not gone to well. and for the record i don't like feeding the snake if i did i would have noticed he hadn't eaten the mouse and as for the mouse he has already bred and i couldn't find a home for him.
I would rather feed a snake then cull a mouse for nothing. oh and good call the guy i am buying the place from said he "had" a mouse problem but it just went away on it's own... :lol:


----------

