# New to the Forums



## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

I've never been on mouse forums before... Plenty of wolfdog and reptile forums though lol.

Anyway, my name is Victoria and I used to breed mice as a hobby years ago (course back then I didn't know really what I was doing. I was a kid with some mice that bred and got excited ). I miss it though. I came out with some very interesting babies out of the single pair I had (a solid black and solid tan long hair). So I'm thinking of getting back into it but with an Adult approach - not so much a child approach this time...

I know my fair share of BASICS, but I need help with the mousery world. I don't know their coat types too well (I know what a Tan is and an Agouti though) and I need a few other well known breeder basics as well. If anyone can give me the 101 that'd be great 
Nice to meet you all.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

I'm learning as well so I'm not much help but trust me, everyone else here is pretty brilliant with information.
Welcome


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

Thank you! I've been doing tons of reading and I can't believe how deep this all really gets. Culling? Inbreeding is accepted here? Unbelievable! In the worlds I normally come from (wolfdogs and reptiles) if you're inbreeding, you BETTER know what you're doing or you'll be shunned indefinitely! lol I breed Crested Geckos already. I've messed around a little bit with learning about genetics with them, but this whole mouse breeding thing is so new to me after reading everything - I'm hoping to learn even more about how genetics work with these guys


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Culling is for the benefit of the animals IMO. As for inbreeding, some mouse forums are really against it while others are more accepting. This forum is good for being accepting.
I breed pet shop mice, we dont have feeder mice here as the only reptiles you can own are turtles. We don't have snakes. Point is, one forum I go on is 100% percent against this, it's wrong.
I hope you learn heaps while here, I'll help where I can but my specialty is more in cattle, haha.


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

Yes, after reading I learned the reasons for culling and can agree to them - especially if you had an over-abundance in males! O_O
I know some friends with snakes... Don't know if they eat frozen or not, but at least I don't have to feel TOO bad if I wind up culling -shiver- I never thought about it before but I read some good points :/ 
I understand the inbreeding thing myself. What I read, it's true that no new hidden genes can start up from an already pure line-bred strain. So really I don't see why anyone would be against it unless you are just the type that is disgusted by such a thing? But when trying to perfect a certain strain and line, it's usually a must. I know of some major reptile breeders who inbreed and get top of the line animals. Same with wolfdogs - though done MUCH less commonly - and you better be including outcrossing (in both wd's and reptiles) by F3 or F4. I half expected to read about out-crossing while reading bout inbreeding but never did it come up! I was surprised lol. I might do a little bit of outcrossing though with mine since I really don't know 100% the aim I'm going with them. HOWEVER, if I do outcross, I'll likely buy an animal with known lines to match up with the lines I'm trying to create 
I see a lot of comparisons by people to cattle. Are mice and cattle breeding alike? I don't know much about cattle - I grew up in the city lol


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

In cattle you breed for confirmation. I have Scottish highland cattle. What you want is a bullet shape calf that grows into a cow that's body is basically rectangular. A nice big bum is why you want as that is where the best meat is. 
In cattle, we don't really breed for colour, you don't seem to get poorly marked animals or imperfections in coat. 
It's pretty basic. You breed red with a red, you will get a red calf. Black with black gives a black.
There is only one colour in highlands that the parents parents colour can play a part which is a dun. The dun is a black cow with a dilution gene, a silver dun has 2 dilution genes.
The rarity of a colour plays a part. Dun and white are rare colours unlike red and black.

Turns out a white cow is a red cow with a dilution gene.

I see no problem with inbreeding, I would inbred to guarantee a colour if you were after something specific.


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

Wow! Didn't know that about cows  Learn something new everyday - thanks!

Color/pattern is what I see for mice.
Temperament most commonly in wolfdogs as well as looks
And structure, pattern, and contrast from Crested Geckos 

Those are some things I'd inbreed for - ESPECIALLY if I had a high content Arctos type for a wolfdog as they've been known to be more aggressive and have issues unlike the Timber lines lol


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Mice are bred for colour/patterns, yes. Obviously health and temperament play a part too.
It's the same with cows. We bred for health and temperament, temperament especially and some people get really picky for colours.


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

Ah yes! Jumpy vs calm and docile. And of course health. I find that a default in any breeding - inbreeding or not 

Seems like there's a secret world out there for just about any species!


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

We show our cattle, that means halter and walk training. It's a lot easier to train an animal that is already calm in nature.


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

I was gonna ask lol.
"How do you train a cow... Wouldn't they already be somewhat considered 'trained'?" haha Very interesting. I didn't know cows were trained as well!


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

We train them to walk with a halter on. You can walk up to any of ours in the paddock and brush them.
You train a horse to walk with a halter on to lead it. It's just like that. All about trust.


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

All about trust in any species 
I don't know much about horses and how they're trained either lol but I do understand what you mean - makes sense


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Simplified version of how we train them.
Put calf in race. Put halter on and tie up. Brush calf. Cuddle it. Talk to it til it settles. Repeat. Eventually take it out of race and try get it to walk. Typically, you pull on the lead rope, when it takes a step, release the pressure.
It can take weeks to months depending on the animal.

They're cute during that time though.


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## littlelovesmousery (May 19, 2012)

Cordane said:


> Simplified version of how we train them.
> Put calf in race. Put halter on and tie up. Brush calf. Cuddle it. Talk to it til it settles. Repeat. Eventually take it out of race and try get it to walk. Typically, you pull on the lead rope, when it takes a step, release the pressure.
> It can take weeks to months depending on the animal.
> 
> They're cute during that time though.


Goodness, I didn't realize there was such a difference in terminology from one country to the next. I had no idea what a race was until I googled it lol. We call them snakes, chutes & tubs.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Welcome to the forum! This thread has been nice to read. : )


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Frizzle said:


> Welcome to the forum! This thread has been nice to read. : )


Terrible habit, when someone asks about my cows, sometimes I don't knOw when to shut up.

Do you call yards "yards"? The set of pens usually next to the race?
It sounds weird calling the race something else but that's because I'm use to a race. But yes, names for things vary a lot in different parts of the world. That happens with mice colour as well (that's the only thing I can think of at 6am)


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

I don't know what any of those terms are lol.  I so wish I grew up somewhere with lots of land. I would've loved to get involved in things like this.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

HiXael said:


> I don't know what any of those terms are lol.  I so wish I grew up somewhere with lots of land. I would've loved to get involved in things like this.


You don't need a lot of land. We have 11 acres. (We can have 16 fully grown cows on that during winter with little problem).
I attended a country primary school. I still go back every year for the Agricultural Day. Even though you are in the country, everyone knows everyone. Its a small school, about 30 students now but there is a huge turn-out at the Ag day. Its how we make sure our calves are bullet proof. Take a calf to a school with loads of kids running around screaming, you will soon learn if that calf is calm or not.


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## HiXael (May 26, 2012)

Bah! I want to live in New Zealand O_O lol
And 2 acres to me is considered "a lot of land" lol I'm used to things like... less than 1/8 of an acre! The house I'm in right now is 2500sqft and there isn't much more land around it  I love pretty much "The middle of nowhere" where you have your small towns and such. I lived in an area like that for 7mo - 2 acres lol


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

HiXael said:


> Bah! I want to live in New Zealand O_O lol
> And 2 acres to me is considered "a lot of land" lol I'm used to things like... less than 1/8 of an acre! The house I'm in right now is 2500sqft and there isn't much more land around it  I love pretty much "The middle of nowhere" where you have your small towns and such. I lived in an area like that for 7mo - 2 acres lol


My house is is about 108sqm and then 11 acres of land. You could keep a few highlands on 2 acres  I like living in the middle of no where. Though our street is getting busier these days. We have two country schools within 5 minutes drive. Sadly they hold their ag days on the same day along with a country school 10minutes drive from me.


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## sys15 (Nov 26, 2011)

Cordane said:


> You don't need a lot of land. We have 11 acres.


heh. most places i've lived, 11 acres would be sufficient to graze a cow for a couple of months or so. if new zealand were to ever relax the exotics ban, i'd strongly consider emigrating.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

sys15 said:


> Cordane said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need a lot of land. We have 11 acres.
> ...


We graze about 16 cows all year round. Give or take a few. The exotics ban kind of sucks but its good in a way.


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## sys15 (Nov 26, 2011)

Cordane said:


> sys15 said:
> 
> 
> > Cordane said:
> ...


yeah, from what i've read, nz is pretty close to the perfect climate for growing cool season grasses. ireland, i believe is another. there are few places so ideal for cattle.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Its not that great. The weather has been stupid lately.
During summer it was raining. And now its winter but its more like spring. *sigh* But yes, gras growth lately has been great!


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