# More Broken Babies



## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

So these two does are from my little hobby/experimental line which I am seperating from my rumpwhite lines after some brokens started croppping up. Both have simialr markings around the middle, was wondering if these wer ejust regular brokens or some other genes involved such as belted or rubbish banded?


















also another broken or broken rumpwhite:









I am loving these brokens even if they are only hobby quality, I am going to pratice on these guys and maybe in the future look into getting some proper show brokens!

Here is a little mismarked blue rumpwhite doe which has a funny ear, looks like theres no structure inside so it is curled backwards and floppy.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Not sure about the top mice, banded is a dominant gene though. However there is also a 'belted' gene and I'm not sure if that is recessive and/or if we have it in the UK. It is odd that you have more than one with what looks like a band and a headspot (common fault of bandeds). Does the band go underneath as well? The second photo looks like a broken rumpwhite as you say - strange but I think it will have high appeal with pet keepers.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

The white does go under but the band becomes wider in the under. It is really interesting I have a slight idea of where these bizaare genes got into my rumpwhite lines, shouldnt have happened though as they were sold to me as tans from actively shown (and quite successfully). It is strange to think what genes are lurking around even under exhibition mice from established varieties.

The rumpwhite brokens are very pretty, and I hope they are popular to pet keepers. Im going to produce more before selling any though.


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## julieszoo (May 27, 2009)

Those are very very cute, Ian


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## Jammy (Jul 14, 2009)

Oh so cute i really wants the dodgy ear one she is gorgeous


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

I've got some more brokens cropping up all over the place, they gene seems to be an all of my blue and black rumpwhite lines! only the chocolate and champagne rumpwhite lines are free from the gene! It's going to take a long time to remove the brokens completely form my rumpwhite lines but I am quite enjoying have the brokens around just wish they were seperate.

Here are a couple which are starting to look more like white mice with spots rather than self mice with random white bits, I think these are more attractive.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Did you add the broken gene in or did it just pop out? I know that none of my rumpwhites carry broken so I can only tell you that it didn't come from mine... not very helpful eh? :roll:


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Ian,the last two pictured are excellent mice to breed from if you were wanting to start with exhibition brokens.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

*Cait*: I know its not from your rumpwhites. I have been able to track back to which mice the gene comes from. When I first started breeding rumpwhites (about 2 years ago I think?) I got several tans and selfs in order to improve on type before really concentrating on the markings. All of them were from NMC breeders, one of them was carrying broken. By luck I hadnt inbred those lines until about 6 months ago when the first brokens cropped up. Unfortunately the broken gene was carried by a really well marked rumpwhite buck which I used as a stud for my entire blue/balck rumpwhite lines. I really dont know how many have the gene but these babies are cropping up really often now, its quite worrying especially as I had been working hard on making my blue rumpwhites. I know for certain that my champagne and chocolate rumpwhites have not been crossed with the lines that carry the broken gene so I still have some with purer genetics.

*Sarah*: Would I be able to really get anywhere using these random brokens or would I be better off getting some from an established breeder. Luckily these babies are a buck and a doe (the doe is the black) and will see what happens!


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I know you asked Sarah but can I stick my oar in too? :lol: I think the reason they'd be good to use is that not only do they have an opposite eye and ear spot but they don't have heavy (or any from what I can see) rump markings, which can be a problem with brokens. I'd pair them up and see what you get - it can't hurt!


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

They are a stroke of luck then (I think they dont have any rump markings because they are rumpwhites).

Having read through the stadnards would these need a few more spots?


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes they'd need a few more, I'd think the minimum to be successful is probably 6 but more is fine.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Thats good to know, I am going to try to get them into usable show brokens. I have been planning on finding some brokens actually but I would like to try to develop my own. So its good to properly know what to aim for. I'm really excited, you'll have to look out for my brokens on the bench around 2015


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Sarah probably has some good examples of her winning brokens, but I can post a photo of one of mine that was Best Marked if that will help. I haven't had brokens for years now - still like them but gave them up due to space issues at the time, and now I have rumpwhites and one marked variety is enough!


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

^^That is the only photo of a show broken that I can find (or have ever seen) ^^

Finnmouse talks about having the nose spot and the opposite ear coloured, but that isnt mentioned in the NMC Standards, is it essential?

I have another litter in the nest at the moment, same buck and doe is sibling of the mother of the two I have the photo of, it looks like a couple more similarly marked brokens in there. I'll also repeat the pairings to see if any more come out so I can try to build my numbers up a bit.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Rounder, more uniformly sized pea spots are desirable, Sarah's brokens have these  See if she has any good'uns she can get a pic of for you.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I can't see any reason that you couldn't make a decent line of brokens from those.My initial stock was very heavily marked and since I was clueless the good ones were a long time coming.Opposite nose and ear shouldn't matter and neither should it matter if individuals have patches rather than pea spots.Most annoyingly that is not the reality and wrongly in my opinion ,you only tend to do well with mice that have pea spots and opp nose and ear.I have won best marked with a 5 spot,the fewer the spots the less likely you are to get undesirable even markings.Obviously the ideal is as many spots as poss but then judges will nit pick about the odd spot being even :evil:


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

I have a black eyed white that has cropped up in a broken litter. Is it very common?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Hi Ian. It's not uncommon. What has happened in an all-white marked mouse is that there is one huge white spot which covers the whole mouse. You usually see it when two spotting genes (like rumpwhite and broken or banded and capped) are combined but it's not unheard of to happen from only one white-spotting gene.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

ok, so im quite likely to get a few croppping up, its quite nice to have someting new come along even if its not going to advance my stock.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

I took some photos today as my camera came back from being fixed so thought I would update on my little brokens/brokens rumpwhites


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Really nice!


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