# Enfield Show October 2th



## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Go on then, who's coming? hehee


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

its the 2nd oct lovey x


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I knew that! LOL!

You coming?


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

It's not open to NMC members Katie  (not that it stops anyone going of course)


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

we might do yes, whos judging? x is it terry sales?


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

It might be an open show Naomi... and I don't know who's judging Leigh my dear, but I might send a quick email to Eric to ask...

I need to know who to call to enter my mice anyway, it'll prolly be Terry, but need to be sure! I'm busy all next week with working and travelling up north to see my parents! 

W xx


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

WillowDragon said:


> It might be an open show Naomi...


There was an article in the NMC news that it will not be open to NMC members......

xx


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

no naomi is right its just a lsc show now for some reason - was meant to be an nmc 1 x


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

That sucks... I'm guessing its a closed LSC then, because if it was an open LSC then anyone could show!! (They have been doing alot of open shows lately)

W xx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Just got my EMR... judge is Keith Berry. And entries to Terry


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Hehehe, October 2th :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm not going but I hope those who are going have a great day.

Sarah xxx


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

the mouse judge on sat in keith berry and entries are to terry sales x


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

i wont be going to this show now - as unable to get there, without going on the bus for best part of the journey due to engineering works on the london underground lines,

heres the link to the disruptions, please check your route if you're using any london trains to get there saturday...

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_d ... tails.html


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

What a shame the l&scmrc hold members only table shows. It begs the question what are they afraid of? competition?. It seems to me when they have open shows their members dont win, NMC members do. This should lead to them improving their mice rather than closing the door on people with better mice.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Seawatch Stud said:


> This should lead to them improving their mice rather than closing the door on people with better mice.


A tad harsh,do you know that to be the reason :?:


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

No I dont know it for a fact, but the show was due to be an open show I know that for a fact. I cant see any reason for closed ahows at all to tell the truth. If getting a judge was a problem I could see that, but Keith is an NMC judge. Most l&scmrc attract a small entry with a handful of exhibitors. I think excluding people, especially newer exhibitors or making them pay to be in two clubs is negative to the fancy in general. The l&scmrc would do better as a complimentary club rather than acting as an alternative. We are all in the same little boat Sarah. If I was harsh on the membership of the club I apologise.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Seawatch Stud said:


> I cant see any reason for closed ahows at all to tell the truth. If getting a judge was a problem I could see that, but


I just view it as an old tradition for this club.I do agree with you about the problem that lack of competition brings.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I dunno, I joined the LSCMRC because thier shows are closest to me (And it still takes me a long time to get to those) and everyone in the mouse section of the club that i have met have been very welcoming to me, I very much enjoy going.

I am not a member of the NMC, and I doubt I will be until I can justify spending the money it'll cost me to get to shows and probably have to stay in hotels. But I am new to showing, until I get my feet wet I will stick with the LSC. I do know if I want to make a name for myself i'll have to show further afield.
(Plus it may be pure laziness on my part I know, but the LSC uses Paypal for its membership fee's and the NMC doesn't)

A few excellent exhibitors I have spoken to say they don't show at Enfield because there is not enough competition... but how can there be competition, when your all not going?!?!?!?

W xx


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

You DO NOT have to be a member of the NMC to show at NMC supported shows, nor do you have to be a member of ANY of the small local clubs that run NMC supported shows. All mouse shows run in the uk are open to anyone except the l&scmrc table shows. The reason you dont get more entries and fanciers attending these shows is all too obvious it seems to me. I have been a member of the l&scmrc, but to be honest its not worth it as the "closed shop" policy excludes people who would otherwise be showing. I sent mice up to the open show in may and won best self, but I cant show this time unless I pay to be a member. How this is in the interest of the fancy as a whole I just cant see.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

So the reason that people don't show there is because they don't want to pay two club memberships? I can understand that, but from certain people I have spoken to, they seem to almost have an animosity towards the Enfield Club shows, or am I getting the wrong impression? Is it something that has been going on a while?
Certain LSC members I have spoken to aswell seem to have an issue with the NMC??

For me personally, it was just a matter of Enfield is the closest show to me, so I pay for the LSC and can show in the NMC Opens anyway... If every Enfield show was an NMC one, I would join the NMC. Simples! lol
What I don't like though, is that if I actually do well on saturday, i'm gonna feel like some breeders I respect and honestly look up to, are just gonna think it doesn't count because its 'Only Enfield'

Just my feelings

W xx


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

I joined the LSC for pretty much the same reasons as Katie, close to me etc. Also as I am a newbie the smaller shows make it a bit less intimidating if you haven't shown before. Also yes the fact that you can't pay online to join the NMC does have some part to do with it. But as I become more experianced i intend to join the NMC.


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

I want you guys(willow, mousemad) to know I mean no disrespect to you as fanciers, quite the opposite in fact. I have the greatest respect for people who walk the mouse fanciers path, whatever route they take. My critical comments were aimed at the club not at any individuals. The NMC has many faults too, but I do think they have a better attitude towards the fancy as a whole. I wish any fanciers attending the show the best of luck, and hope you have a good day out.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I want you to know that nothing I said was aimed at you either Phil, since i've never really met you properly before... hehee
I did see you at London Champs, and said 'Well Done Phil!' but you probably didn't have a clue who I was LMAO!

I look forward to meeting you properly one day though, would love to have a proper look at your lovely Blacks 

W xx


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

i agree with willow, many of the nmc people ive met and spoken to have all said enfield is crap and not worth bothering with, which upset me as i won my best in show here and i kinda felt every1 thought it didnt mean much as it was only a lsc show and didnt count as a win as if my mice wouldnt be good enough at an nmc show..if that makes sense..
anyway despite others opinions i like enfield 
also


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

You won best opposite age in show at the London Leigh, no arguing with that. Best in show is always good to win, good mice win best in show. You can count yourself a good mouser in my book.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

You should be darn proud of your BIS Leigh, no doubt.

Gutted you won't be there on Saturday


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

I think both clubs have there faults, i'm a member of nmc as they are the show closest to me but i do believe it has its problems too, I'll be frank coz i think thats what this thread needs. Both clubs are closed and think they are the best for the hobbie and so on... which is wrong. They are both going to kill the hobbie as a whole if they cant work together and move with the times... all well and good being tradional and what not but it seems to me that alot of the dare i say it "older" members of both clubs are scared to death of the younger generation not because of the mice they breed and compete with but because as the members get younger the club has to adapt, bringing in websites and emails and the like which to be honest is the way to go not only will it take cost of running the clubs down it means the clubs can be joined and followed from people easyer. I dont get the nmc news for that reason i think 20 pounds a year for a mag once a month is silly when the club could save its self a small amount of cash and just email news letters to the members. Anyway sorry this is alittle of topic i'll shut up again


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Artuntaure said:


> all well and good being tradional and what not but it seems to me that alot of the dare i say it "older" members of both clubs are scared to death of the younger generation not because of the mice they breed and compete with but because as the members get younger the club has to adapt, bringing in websites and emails and the like which to be honest is the way to go not only will it take cost of running the clubs down it means the clubs can be joined and followed from people easyer.


You are wrong about why the mouse club is worried about some younger new members and forums.They are concerned and in my opinion rightly that the mouse club will be turned into a glorified pet club with pretty mice being the number one priority rather than keen competition.It's happened and is happening in lots of fancies.I'm all for people having mice for whatever reason they choose but if they join the mouse club they should recognise that it is only interested in the mouse as an exhibition animal,absolutely nothing else.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

and I don't want an email,the club magazine is the best £20 I spend all year.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Regardless of anything else, I always think that the Enfield shows have a really lovely, welcoming atmostphere. It is a happily spent Saturday indeed, sat around the mouse hall chatting 



> and I don't want an email,the club magazine is the best £20 I spend all year.


I completely agree, I love getting my NMC News! It costs less than £2 per month and is so worth it. Wouldn't be without it and I like having it hard copy. You can take it to shows, make notes/amendments in it, and even read it on the toilet!! :lol:



> They are concerned and in my opinion rightly that the mouse club will be turned into a glorified pet club ... if they join the mouse club they should recognise that it is only interested in the mouse as an exhibition animal


I agree with this also, it's one of the reasons I gave up with the rat fancy. In my humble opinion, the rat fancy seems to be more about who has the biggest cages with the most stuff crammed into them than who is producing the best exhibition animal. I'd cry if the mouse fancy ended up like that. I like that culling is an accepted practise in the mouse fancy - if the NMC became a pet owners' club that would be out the window (as it now is in the rat fancy) and the quality of mice shown would plummet. I love the fact that the quality demanded of the exhibition mouse is so high.

I mean no disrespect to pet owners whatsoever, honestly, but I breed mice solely to show them. Don't get me wrong, I love the little guys and spend many happy hours with them, but I wouldn't breed if I wasn't an exhibitor.

As things are I am a very happy mouser indeed, and I love my hobby and my club :love1 With the exception of a forum for NMC members and the inclusion of email addresses in the contact details in the yearbook, I hope the NMC never changes.

Sarah xxx


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

I have to agree with pretty much all thats just been said in the previous three posts. I would have to admit also the L&scmrc for all its faults upholds the important traditions of the mouse fancy. Its often said the NMC stands for "nothing much changes" and thats right overall. If it aint broke dont fix it. The NMC has been around for over a century, and though things do change, they change very slowly after much debate.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

The tradition of this fancy is hugely important to me, and I respect it greatly.

How many people have been laughed at because they breed mice for show? I know I have... but when I go into the huge amount of work and effort it takes to get mice to a place where they are actually winning, and explain to people the history of clubs like the NMC, it seems to make them stop and think.
This is not 'cutesy wootsy ickle mousies', this is a serious and challenging hobby.
Even just telling them about the Maxey's and how they are still the same after a century makes them have some respect for what it is I do.

The only thing *I* would change about the NMC is being able to pay membership online. I love the mags, and promptly steal them from people when I see them so I can read them! hehee

Like both Sarah's have said, I think you have got the wrong idea Art... Current members are not 'scared of competition' from new and younger members like me, quite the opposite, they *want* the competition from people who respect the fancy and take it seriously.
What they don't want is 'This is my mouse Romeo, and he's cute and sweet and kisses me, so I think he should win!'

Hehe, A bit extreme maybe, but you get the picture. Traditions are there for a reason, standards are there for a reason... and if your serious, you will strive for better and better in your mice, like I am doing.
I want to beat fantastic competition like Phil and SarahC, SarahY, Heather and Sam. And hopefully one day I will!! hehee

I have even stopped called my mice, meece. Heather will be so proud of me.

Anyway, Wish me luck for tomorrow!!! I will actually have some competition in the Cham class, should be interesting to see what happens! hehe

Willow xx


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Good luck tomorrow!!

Sarah xxx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

WillowDragon said:


> The only thing *I* would change about the NMC is being able to pay membership online.
> 
> Willow xx


I'd also do that.Good luck for tomorrow.


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

SarahC said:


> and I don't want an email,the club magazine is the best £20 I spend all year.


Agree with that, totally!! And your post above this one, Sarah. Pet keepers are not what the NMC needs. Quality above quantity.


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

WillowDragon said:


> I have even stopped called my mice, meece. Heather will be so proud of me.


I am!! :lol:


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)




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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

just to briefly go back to the magazine,Ruth could really do with input from members.Photos from shows ,articles and opinions,positive or negative.Experiences as a newcomer.She shouldn't have to do all the work.I'd like to read about whats involved in actually putting on a show _Philip_.Midlands mouse club has a nice ring I think.Pictures and topics can be emailed to her.


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

hahah can i just say that i didnt say that the older members where scared of compation i said they where scared of change......i'm not saying change the rules or the standards of class. just they need to be more modern, with the memberships and the opinion for newsletters..... please read what i posted and not jump to concusions...


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Another interesting thread that I had managed to miss!

I just popped on to say that a last minute decision to go to the show tomorrow, I'm not a member so wont be showing. I had planned to go before it was a closed show. LSCMRC run several open shows a year and I always thoroughly enjoy them. I will be looking closely to compare the quality of mice at tomorrows show compared to an NMC show to see if there is any truth to the rumours.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm so glad you decided to come Ian! It'll be nice to see you!

I have been to a few enfield shows where i havent shown myself and still enjoyed it.

W x x


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

You know when you wake up, all happily run along to the shed, check your mice and 'OH MY GOD'... 'Why do you have the tiniest, tiniest notch of fur missing on your head?'... 'OH MY GOD'...'WHY did you choose today to start obviously molting?'


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

WillowDragon said:


> You know when you wake up, all happily run along to the shed, check your mice and 'OH MY GOD'... 'Why do you have the tiniest, tiniest notch of fur missing on your head?'... 'OH MY GOD'...'WHY did you choose today to start obviously molting?'


I know absolutely and time and experience hasn't altered things :roll:


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## The secret garden (May 13, 2010)

And it only ever happens to the one you feel will win.

Good luck to all who have gone to the Enfield show, post results when you get back. Happy mousing!


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

how did the show go today? x


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Any news yet?? Come on Katie let us know the results!


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh Jeez... honest, you expect me to remember stuff??? I was stewarding for the first time!! I was panicing so much, all I saw was the maxeys and the numbers! LOL

I know BIS was a gorgoeus Black, and I *think* BOA was an Argente, but someone may correct me!

No clue who the black belonged to!! the ribbons were still there when I left! I believe the Argente belonged to Nigel @Rollesby.

I can tell you what I got!! Well... my 'best' girl was having a very bad day when I went up to the shed this morning, and it showed, she got a 4th place in the Cham Satin Ad class and by some miracle managed to pick up a 3rd in the Satin Challenge.

My 'replacement' boy (the original u8 satin boy I was going to take had MAJOR molt issues, so I quickly took his brother!) did quite well... 1st in Cham Satin u8 (Out of 3), 2nd in Satin Challenge u8 (Out of 9) and a 3rd in the Grand Challenge u8 (Out of 42).

My Champagne A doe also did quite well... 1st in Champagne A, a 2nd in the Novice class (Out of 14) and a 4th in the Adult Doe class (Out of 28)

My u8 Cham doe bombed! lol Too pale. Though she is the sister of the cham satin boy that did so well and is the same colour... in the future I will remember to show pale satins and slightly darker selfs.

I spent 25 quid on 5 new champagne mice in the auction, and all in all had a nice day.... shame I got stuck on the train with ignorant, drunken loutish football fans. Nightmare.

W xx


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Congratulations sweetie! Glad you had a good day 

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks Sarah!! I am pleased overall, though still a bit disappointed that my cham satin girl didn't shine on the day... Oh well, she might have had PMT or something :lol: :lol:

It was lovely to see the club members again, and despite the fact that I was pretty much pushed into stewarding, i'm glad I was, because now I have done it once, I probably will be more confident to help out next time too.
(Though I hope they don't make me steward everytime, I have no time to talk to my friends!!)

W xx


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## laoshu (Sep 16, 2009)

congratulations hun  
Its a shame the ones you wanted to show were having a bad hair day! there is always a next time


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

[quote="WillowDragon"
(Though I hope they don't make me steward everytime, I have no time to talk to my friends!!)

W xx[/quote]

I always think it would be a good idea to share the stewarding with someone else.One do the morning and one the afternoon.I've done that a couple of times and found it good.It's finding someone willing to do it with you thats the problem.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes I barely got to have a chat while you were stewarding.

Its a shame that your mouse wasnt looking her best, I don't know much about the shade you need to achieve but with my beady little eye looking at the condition and type of your mice I was very impressed. I am incredibly pleased with my two new cham does, which are both ideal for me and hopefully will massively improve my rumpwhites. I cant wait to get anything near those ears on a marked!


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

The only real faults with the girls that I gave you Ian were dark tops and line unders!! I am really glad your pleased with them. They are the sisters of the adult girls I showed!

And yeah, it would have been nice to have someone to take over properly so I could have 10 minutes break! hehe I did have loads of help though, but that was to teach me what to do!! hehee
And this was just a club show, I don't even want to know what it would be like to steward a really big one, I think you'd definately have to have two stewards then!!

W xx


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

Sorry to hear you didnt do as well as you hpoed. Do not take it too much to heart, as a different judge on a different day may have seen it in a different way!. Quite like that it rhymes!. I hope you can make it to the show in Newbury in a couple of weeks as I am judging and could give you my opinion. Remeber there are no definitive winners and losers, only subjective opinions from the judge on the day. Dont be tempted to enter lighter satins and darker selfs based on yesterdays results alone, as usually with the pale selfs and satins lighter shades do better.


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

SarahC said:


> just to briefly go back to the magazine,Ruth could really do with input from members.Photos from shows ,articles and opinions,positive or negative.Experiences as a newcomer.She shouldn't have to do all the work.I'd like to read about whats involved in actually putting on a show _Philip_.Midlands mouse club has a nice ring I think.Pictures and topics can be emailed to her.


Midlands mouse club does have a nice ring to it. I may post something on here outlining what you would need to do to put on a show, or maybe the magazine, I will give it some thought. If said mouse club becomes a reality I would come and judge it for you if you would like. I have written an article for the mag next month about the internet/forum issue. Its not positive, but then how could it be?. I only get called Philip when Im in trouble, I hope thats not the case!.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

She wasn't mega dark, but the buck that did well was much much paler, almost silver I thought.
These are pics of the vastly different shades I get in cham litters:

















Thinking about it today, I do think it was more to do with her overall 'look' than her colour or type or anything like that. I knew when I got her out of the shed yesterday morning she was not looking at her best, it wasn't any huge particular thing, she just didn't 'look' right!
Her and her sister are going into breeding, they are a good age and a good size for it, and my stud is scarily small right now, so I need my best does producing.

I have a couple of young bucks and a litter of PEW's that will be ready for selection for my next show... and I will see what my young doe I put in this time, looks like as an adult, she may darken.

Newbury you say? Hmm... I may look into that! Its a bit further out than Reading is it not?

W xx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Seawatch Stud said:


> SarahC said:
> 
> 
> > just to briefly go back to the magazine,Ruth could really do with input from members.Photos from shows ,articles and opinions,positive or negative.Experiences as a newcomer.She shouldn't have to do all the work.I'd like to read about whats involved in actually putting on a show _Philip_.Midlands mouse club has a nice ring I think.Pictures and topics can be emailed to her.
> ...


I'm honoured I'm sure.I shall all so be writing a piece.You'll have to wait and see in which light I portray things :frocket 
At least it breaks the apathy Phil


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

Well I can feel people picking up their quills and penning a response by flickering candlelight to my letter, which is pretty much the problem!.


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## The secret garden (May 13, 2010)

Seawatch Stud said:


> Well I can feel people picking up their quills and penning a response by flickering candlelight to my letter, which is pretty much the problem!.


 :lol:


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Seawatch Stud said:


> Well I can feel people picking up their quills and penning a response by flickering candlelight to my letter, which is pretty much the problem!.


tis a laugh a minute in the mouse club.


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm just interested how people got from me saying the nmc needs to modernise, to the standards of mice to be shown? I mean i didnt say anything about pet type mice or show standards at all in my post, and yet somehow it got to that. I'm all for keeping the high standards for the show types its the reason i got myself show stock not to mension they are gorg.. what i wanted to highlight was the fact that alot of the older members are scared to death of computers.. i dont know if they saw some freaky film or something where the evil computer took over the world or something but as society has shown us the computer is the way forward. I hear that some of you love the mag delivered to your door every month and i respect your opinion... I'd also like to state mine that i'd love to see a online copy of the mag or as an email newsletter. One because it seems a waste of paper to me (please note opinion) as i'm the sort that stops all paper bills coming to my home and the like... and secondly the cost of publication could be reduced ten fold and thirdly A newsletter / online mag could be updated more regularly. I'm not saying bin the mag to the door as that would be silly as those with no computer and those that like it in that form should be able to still get it i am saying i'd like the other opinion too... i maybe the only person who thinks this but i've said it anyway. When i attended my first show i was greeted kindly by the members who where there, the member who i got my stock off even said to me he doesn't do computers and said he was a dinosaur , i also had another member after the show stating that you learn nothing from a computer/ on a forum that this was where you learn't about mouse breeding and showing. Which to be honest isnt true the computer is a valuable resource if it wasnt for my computer i wouldnt of found my perfect stock nor would i have even known about the Nmc and the show's that are held. Anyway if i've offended anyone i'm sorry it wasnt my intension, nor was it my intension to bring the thread to types of mice thats not the issue i was trying to bring up  
Kim


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I think you're taking it a bit personally sweetie, the thread just evolved naturally. No-one's having a go at you 

Sarah xxx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm not offended,I like a bit of debate else life would be dull.I still go back to the point that it isn't the actual computer but the 'fluffy pet people' it might attract that puts people against it.People, rightly or wrongly perceived as the wrong sort to take the mouse club forward .You've formed an opinion after going to one or maybe two shows.I've got a foot in both camps.I enjoy this forum and talking mouse with people who keep them for whatever reason.If we were at a show we could have congregated over a drink and debated to our hearts content with out upset,it is a draw back of forums that offence is easily given/taken.Any how,when at a show we usually go to the pub at lunch with Mick and Joe to have a friendly debate and you're welcome to come and join in the mouse talk.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

This has come up so many times in the NMC, and all other small livestock clubs.The need to have computer based advertising/contact is vital. As In every other small livestock club there is a fair porportion of old members who are resistant to change, I personally will enjoy my NMC news dropping through the letter box, but if it were available on line as well what difference would that make to me ? The NMC has always been perilously close to extinction, if we are ever to get away from the 200 member mark there is only one way forward. When a person joins the mouse fancy, its at the very start that they have a great thirst for knowledge but the least amount of contacts. This Forum fills the gap. It could greatly increase the numbers in the nmc.


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

You guys will like the article Ive put in next months magazine(which i wouldnt give up). The irony is it will start a debate that will take six months to deal with, which we could(and have) had in a few days!.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm looking forward to reading it, Phil.

Whilst on the subject of NMC members versus the internet, my internet use has nothing to do with my mice or my breeding ethics, or even showing. It's simply that I'm 26 years old and have grown up in a world that is completely computer based and I happen to feel much more comfortable sending an email or posting on a forum than I do randomly phoning up some stranger. I've interrupted several fanciers by phoning them while they were having their tea or watching the world cup.

It makes me sad to keep seeing the snide jibes in the NMC Magazine, as if using computers makes people lesser breeders/exhibitors. It's what people are saying that counts, not where they're saying it!

Gosh, that turned out a bit ranty! I swear, that all sounded calm and reasonable in my head :lol:

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

AMEN Sarah!!!

And no offense (Because it happens to everyone) but one day those members that are staunchy again computers/emails/forums will be dead, and then something will have to be done. If clubs like the NMC are still to exist in 20 or 30 years, change needs to happen.

New members are essential to any club, and reaching out to the younger generations is very much needed. And the younger generation are computer minded.

W xx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

WillowDragon said:


> AMEN Sarah!!
> 
> New members are essential to any club, and reaching out to the younger generations is very much needed. And the younger generation are computer minded.
> 
> W xx


that's true but one of the gripes is that all those younger,newer members who are shouting the loudest are not doing the work and while channeling all their energies into a non club forum are letting the club whose opinion counts and it's spokes piece die.Whose going to do all the internet work.Volunteers are thin on the ground in general.I've spoken out in favor of the net,Dave S. has made a small reply in the negative and Phil is going to make a big reply in the negative and what are all you younger,newer members doing to get your opinion across where it counts.Nothing.As usual the magazine will have contributions from the few.Thank god for David M,he's never missed a month.
that's my sermon


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

p.s any member who wants the editors email to submit a piece can pm me with pleasure


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

I hear you sarahC your right unless some of us younger members step up and try to help too, the point is going to go around in circles. I have a few friends in web design i'm going to go have a chat with and i'll talk to them about how hard it would be to do something like an online mag and site and stuff in gen... once i know more i'll get in touch with the people in the club that its up too how the club thing goes.


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## The secret garden (May 13, 2010)

I have a copy of Phils letter going to the higest bidder!!

I totally agree with whats being said, the club needs to move with the times and not be scared of what the future holds. Internet has so far been the greatest inention in the history of mankind. 10 years ago no one knew about the internet whereas these days every home has access to it. Internet was mainly introduced for communication but there's more to it than e-mails, web sites and delightful forums such as this one.

I think internet is the most important invention of all times because it enables you to chat with another person from various parts of this planet. It brings the whole world under one roof.
Apart from being highly advanced in terms of communication, it's a place for business transactions, services like online banking, job seeking, shopping and also a very good source of entertainment. It's also a fountain of information, everything you need to know can be found through search engines like google and yahoo saving you time from going through encyclopedias and libraries lets hope our "oldies" see it that way and move along with them times like us

Kim i agree and disagree, you can only do so much reserch on the internet when it comes to breeding and exhibiting mice, first hand up close and personal at shows is def the best way about it. But the bases the drive and passion can all come from sitting in your Pj's on the sofa typing away on your laptop, thats certainly where mine comes from.

SarahY, me too being 24 your used to being around computers. Your taught how to work on in school and it becomes second nature to us. And as you said you dont have to worry about interupting someone because they check there emails when they are free...

The Internet is fantastic we all know that and when not at a show its the only place you can really get right into mouse talk but i dont want to forget the old times, what made the show's what they are the newsletter has always been what it is and any change i think i would be disraught. What i certainly would like to see if, as already meantioned, the club taking subcriptions Via paypal and to just not be afired of the internet.

I think they just no there time holding the reins is coming to a end....


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> I've spoken out in favor of the net,Dave S. has made a small reply in the negative and Phil is going to make a big reply in the negative and what are all you younger,newer members doing to get your opinion across where it counts.Nothing.As usual the magazine will have contributions from the few.


I'm going to be completely honest. I am a newcomer to the fancy and as such I don't want to write into the magazine on this subject because I'd be afraid of the backlash! I don't feel anywhere near confident enough to voice my opinion in the NMC magazine, and why on Earth would I? What encouragement has been given except for a telling off every month? The problem is *not *that ' the younger members aren't doing enough', the problem is that *most* of the members aren't doing enough. There are many, many older fanciers who I have never seen write for the magazine, it seems to be the same handful of dedicated people.

I try my best to spread the word about the hobby and encourage people with my own experiences as a new fancier, what else can I do? I couldn't write anything that would be of interest to the experienced fancier. But ask me if I'd help out in the kitchen, or writing out show certificates, or something else I can actually do and I would be thrilled to help out.

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I don't contribute to the NMC Mag because I am not a member... if non members can contribute pictures and such, please let me know! I doubt they can though.

I have contributed to the LSC's newsletter,I have helped set up and clean up afterwards, I have bought food for the kitchen, I have bought mice is auction classes and I always give ALOT more than what my entry fee's are for my club and now I have also stewarded. I like to think I am supportive of the club that keeps my hobby going.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

And to bring this full circle... despite the fact that I don't show at NMC shows, if they had membership and Mag fee's payable online, I would probably join anyway!!!

So honestly, they are losing out on at least my money by not dragging their asses on the internet!!

W xx


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

I will post a copy of my article AFTER its been published in the mag. I want to get something straight. This is not about us and them, there is only us!. I like mice, I enjoy showing mice but I love the MNC and want whats best for it. The last thing we need at this point is newbies venting off in the mag(no offence), that would be disastrous right now. That does not mean articles from newbies wouldnt be welcome,of course they would, the more the better. The fact is Sarah C and myself have a proven track record and are known supporters and promoters of the club, what we say cant just be dismissed. This will be a slow process but we will drag the NMC kicking and screaming into the present day. We all need to be on the same page. I am going to write a more positive article on setting up and running shows, you guys should also write in but try to be positive and make yourselves known. The "older" fanciers are not the enemy we/you owe them a huge debt of thanks for providing us with such a brilliant club to be a part of.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Can we start it by having a paypal option for the membership? Thats not so scary is it??

I don't want to change the club, I don't want to change the standards, I don't even want to change the magazine!! I just want the way I can access the club to be changed!!

Thank you, that is all... hehehe

W xx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

SarahY said:


> > The problem is *not *that ' the younger members aren't doing enough', the problem is that *most* of the members aren't doing enough. There are many, many older fanciers who I have never seen write for the magazine, it seems to be the same handful of dedicated people.
> >
> > Sarah xxx


That's true but it hasn't always been like that and the general opinion is that forums such as this are bleeding the life out of the club magazine and it's the younger members that are keener on the internet.To have an online magazine some one will have to do the work.Another stumbling block,one of many granted.Lots of the older folk have done their bit .Newer exhibitors can write things of interest to other starters or even just submit pictures.I'm not being personal to anyone but no one in the club is going to be taking note of your opinions on here so it's all a bit pointless.My own opinion is that the club should cherry pick and embrace the best of the internet.I did have a bit of a laugh to myself while feeding the mice about how ludicrous it would be to an outsider that a group of strangers could fall out about mice on a forum,so I hope you'll all take things from me at least in good humour.It's bad enough telling people you show mice .


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

> no one in the club is going to be taking note of your opinions on here so it's all a bit pointless


Ermm... out of the people that have been taking part in this discussion, i'm the only one that is not a member. Maybe that should have been worded 'Nobody important is taking any notice of you!' hehee

Don't worry Sarah, I love things like this... I do love a good debate.

Forums may be bleeding the life out of the magazine, which is very sad, granted. But then WHY don't the NMC start there own forum??? Some people may get angry, and perhaps even leave the club (I would hope not) but surely more members and interest would be generated in an online forum.

Where is the NMC's advertising??? I am willing to bet there are several breeders of mice in this country that don't even know about the NMC... I have been breeding mice on and off for 12 years and didn't know about the club until I joined THIS forum.

W xx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't think there will ever be a forum because of the problems of policing it and making sure that the over all impression is one that the club would want projected.
I'm with you on the advertising,in fact I first joined the London club not the NMC because that's what I came across on the internet and it was also my first showing experience with my one and only mouse.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

WillowDragon said:


> > no one in the club is going to be taking note of your opinions on here so it's all a bit pointless
> 
> 
> Ermm... out of the people that have been taking part in this discussion, i'm the only one that is not a member. Maybe that should have been worded 'Nobody important is taking any notice of you!' hehee
> W xx


Absolutely.I tell you one thing,forums suck up your time.I'm behind on everything,so I'm off.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Its almost like they want to be bloody hard to find, so they know that its only the people that truely want to seriously breed and exhibit that join!!
I can understand that, and that may seem like a good thing... but it will be the death of the club one day. Besides, it clearly states on the website that not only exhibitors can join, anyone who is interested in mice is welcome, even children!
Which honestly doesn't seem like the case!

I'm all for tradition... change scares me as much as the next person, and I can understand not wanting something that has been the same for a very long time to become different. But i'm sorry, things *need* to change... *need* to evolve!! Otherwise they get left behind.

If you truely Love the NMC, you should be encouraging them to move on and be more open to new things, new people and new opinions!

W xx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I think this thread is done now 

Its been very interesting!!


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