# 5 litters due any time



## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

I have 5 agouti does due any day now, two are agouti tan. All bred to a blue tan male. I am hoping they can hold out so I can get my new tub setups done to pair out my mice instead of doing colony style. Should be done tomorrow night. I would get pictures of how they look but they pile up when sleeping and the girls look absolutely huge! I don't want to risk the pups. That and I am kind of ashamed of how they live in such a large group. I'd rather see them in pairs with lots of room now that I know better. (thank you forum!)

Their last litters had a variety so I am excited to see what I get this time around. I plan to thin the litters down to the largest 3 or 4 each if I can seperate in time. If not I will pull all the tiny ones with the poorest skin color. Wish me luck!


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

Congratulations! If you move them let them crawl into your hand or a toilet paper tube (if they fit LOL) and also be sure to provide lots of tissue for new nest building. Usually I like to let my pregnant does stay in one cage because they spend so much time preparing the nest for the little ones and I don't mess it up even during spot cleaning. Hopefully you get time to separate before they litter. Let us know how it turns out


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

I usually scoop up my pregnant does one hand on either side and slide underneath them to move them if i need to clean the cage and what not.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Thank you for the tips on the moving. I have one new setup almost done, plan to put the big blue tan male and the biggest preggers girl in it. The big male keeps biting the previous litters pups. They are old enough most the males I can tell when they are walking around and rarely try to nurse any more. I want to say they are 4-5 weeks old? I will have to pull up my records. That is another thing having them paired off will do, I will know better exactly when each litter is born. When I have this first pair seperated I will take a picture, please know its a temporary finish as my local shop is out of hardware cloth for another week, but once its in I will install the windows and "sunscreen" for the best ventilation I can offer.

At this time I am choosing to use water dishes I will check a couple times each day, since I am at home all the time, I can do it


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

If I have to move heavily pregnant does I move a portion of the old bedding with them.I am halfway through changing from water bottles to pots.I'm fed up of the bottles not working.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Here are the happy couple. You can't really see the tub itself because I wanted to focus on the mice, but rest assured. Each long side has at least 30 holes drilled in, the short sides at least 20, and the lid has 60. The male is Meener our Blue Tan and the female is Wild Goddess, I am fairly sure she is an agouti. She's adjusting the new home to her liking and he is nibbling holes :x Hoping he stops, lil buggar. I will give her some tissue shortly for her nesting.










Edit: Oh and before anyone asks its crushed aspen. I find it takes longer to develope an odor with mice using this than regular flake aspen. I get it at a feed shop marketed for horses.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Ok got another pair pulled from the main tank. This time both are Agouti Tans. I know I said I was going away from tans but these are such sweet mice! I may phase them out later, but for now they stay 

The one at the top is Sandi the doe and at the bottom is Brightling, the little buckling. I named him brightling because I thought he was a satin but he is not that shiney any more. In fact he is just as shiney as Sandi and I am positive she is not satin. What do you guys think? (don't ask me to check teeth, teeth hurt lol)


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Are you planning on doing back to back breedings with these mice? If you are, fine, but if your not, I'd be moving out those boys around about now! hehe

And no, those bottom two don't look satin to me, just have nice healthy coats.

W xx


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Yes, for now I plan to do back to back breedings. Still deciding how to keep improving everything and choosing which males to keep etc. Going to have to do a lot of thinking over the next few days.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

I would have opted to not put holes at mouse reach level. as they will chew and eventually get out. I put all my holes above their reach so they can chew at them but you may luck out and not have any issues. I have noticed if you put a tp roll in with the chewers they seem to chew that instead of the holes in their cage.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> Each long side has at least 30 holes drilled in, the short sides at least 20, and the lid has 60.


I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that won't be enough! You need proper big panels that the air can move freely through, otherwise condensation will form and everything will get soggy, and the smell inside the box will be eyewatering.

Also, they can chew a hole big enough to get out in less than an hour, it won't be a gradual thing that you'll be able to spot and block off before any harm is done.

I'm sorry, I absolutely hate being so negative 

Sarah xxx


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

I just lost a mouse that I adore from chewing through the plastic tub. It didn't have anything to do with hole placement either. I'm still trying to figure out how she did it. I have a 66 liter plastic tub converted with wire mesh on each side and a locking lid with mesh top. Somehow she climbed to the top and wedged her body there long enough to chew a hole big enough to get out. She was stacked 3 tubs this same size high and must have fell out and ran away. The other two mice with her were just hanging out. This all happened in the course of 9 hours. I made the cage and put them all in it at night and in the morning she was gone...I hope she stays in the mousery and eventually I find her hiding in a storage box or something. They had cardboard to chew and nesting material, food and water...I guess she missed her wheel and went crazy.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Well, the holes thing _is_ temporary and the humidity inside is much lower than in my snake vivs which are made the same way just fewer holes. No condensation so far, since I will be opening each at least 2 or 3 times a day to freshen the water that will increase air flow during the day. They will get pannels on the lids and sides as soon as I can. Will see if I can find some hardware cloth while out and about today. The nibbling has stopped, seems it was a Hay whats this? Kinda reaction and now they are all good  I used to have mice in those plastic drawers sold at Walmart. Never had an escapee, just didn't like pulling them out all the time, I felt like I was torturing them. So I went back to a harem style in tanks. Don't really like that either. As to my mice going nutty over a lost wheel, they have never had a wheel so they do not know what they are missing. Would love to give them some wheels but not right now. No worries. I will be evolving my caging until it is totally awesome.

I did not take any responses as negative, its constructive critisism meant to help me improve my setups  You guys are really helping me and I have convinced myself its good to hear this stuff rather than lose my mice because I messed up by not listening. ♥


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

It's awesome to hear you are so open to advice and willing to learn.  I was just about to suggest hardware cloth but it looks like you have it all planned out.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

The only thing I will add is that back to backs have there place in breeding, I have recently done it myself to increase numbers in a new variety I have.
But, if you are planning on leaving the male in indefinately leaving the female to have litter after litter, then this may well go against your goal to breed for bigger and most robust mice. You would have to pack your female full of protien and beneficial fats to keep her barely in condition, and then you would end up with a fat male aswell. lol

I'm not getting at you, but my advice would honestly be, that if you want to breed back to back, only do it once (As in leave the male in when the girl has her first litter so she will get pregnant with the second) and then take the male out to give the girl a break. I honestly think it will be better for your plans in the long run. An over worked mother does not make for healthy, fat pinkies.

W xx


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Right now I only have 2 females with breeding age males. The other three are with younger males awaiting more money to evolve my caging. I really do know that back to back is not good. Trying to get away from it but I can't go full swing on all the cages until I get my W2 and can get in for a quick tax return next month. Hoping the males mature a little slowly so I can get organised. My ideas of mouse raising are rapidly changing and sadly my finances have not sped up to meet my needs :lol: Next month I will be upgrading so my breeder males have hot bachelor pads and the girls are kept in pairs and then I will rotate which one gets bred. I have Kintracks a breeding tracking program. Its just the trial so it only holds info on 60 animals but I plan to upgrade that next month too. Right now things are far from optimal but I am working on it with all of your help ♥♥♥


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Kintraks is good. I plan on using it for my broken marked (As I can actually tell individuals apart! lol)

How old are the young males? Because boys *can* breed from 21 days if spurred on by in heat females.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Males can breed that young? Wow, they are just now 3 weeks (21 days) however the females still with them are currently pregnant but due soon. It will be at least 2 weeks before I will have more money for more homemade cages  They have not shown any breeding behavior yet, but phooey! I want to use some of these males in my breeding programs, the only way I have right now to remove any mice from being exposed to breeding is to cull. I haven't totally decided which to cull yet. Boy this is turning out to be more complicated than I thought. I will see what I can do. Thank you for pointing this important info out to me.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Its more common at 28 days, but I have had in the past accidental pregnancies where the son has caught the mum at 3 weeks old, especially in smaller pet types.

W xx


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

So then the whole seperate everyone at four weeks should really be at 3 weeks? Because i thought you seperated everyone at 4 as the were weaned and starting to get frisky.


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

In my experience I've been able to leave young males with the litter for a little over 5 weeks and may have been longer but never chanced it. I suppose it depends on the level of aggression in his temperament. My males are usually slow to show any interest though.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Ok I was wrong there are 3 pregnant females with the 3 week olds. The 3 week olds are both males and females. I can pull the pregnant females to let them raise their litters, but I do not have anything for two more days that will be ok to seperate the boys from the girls. I need to scrub down some things I got off freecycle before I can use them.

Happy news! Wild Goddess had her litter. 11 wiggly little red uns. I'm thinking I will wait two or three days then cull down to the 3 or 4 with the biggest skulls since I am breeding for bigger mice. Here is a photo of the little cuties  Don't worry I put the nesting material back over them after taking the photo.


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

I see some nice milk bellies!


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Yup, all well fed, they are growing fast, I am culling the smaller ones tonight before bed. The other girls are making me wait lol.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Jezzi, an agouti had 9 pups today seen here:








Here is the mom:








The father is meener, a blue tan. I culled to the 4 with the largest heads and best color, I think one has pink eyes, exciting!

So now I have a total of 8 pups with 3 more litters due any time now! Oh Jezzi is on her own to raise these because I have decided not to breed her again. Culling her so I can breed the recessive yellow from the earlier litters.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Found another litter while spot cleaning, feeding and watering all. This one is a litter of 8, kept the best 4, again I think one has pink eyes. Mother is an agouti named G'honner father is Meener.
Could not get a photo of mom because she is very skittish, she will be culled when the litter weans. Smallest of the agouti does, and most skittish.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

This litter is fathered by Meener, the blue tan and born to Sandi an Agouti tan. 5 born, kept the best 4, all born with black eyes. Just one doe holding out on having her litter. That would be Dahlia, I checked, she is an agouti tan as well. I paired her with a blue tan buck named Blue Bub.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

The last female had 9, I left the best 4 with her. The first litter that was born has doubled in size already and has pigment starting in! I had no idea they would grow so much faster this way! Thanks guys!


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

As much as some people don't enjoy culling pinkies... they do get much chubbier in my experience if you do it!! hehe

Congrats, and enjoy your babies while they are small.


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## webzdebs (Mar 29, 2010)

congrats on your litters


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks, I will put up new pics when they get fuzzy and colors start to show.


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Will take pics later today but almost all of them look Blue or a purply gray :shock: Very interesting and not one looks satin at all!


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

If the babies could be chocolate and blue at the same time you could have Lilacs. Do they have black eyes?


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Yup, all have black eyes except I think two (might be 3, I am not looking right this second) of the pups I had forgotten were pink eyed and those two look a soft off white, not exactly white but not gray either. I forgot to get pics today will get some first thing tomorrow AM. (its 8pm here almost and light is poor)


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Ok here they are, only problem is now I can not remember which ones had pink eyes!

Meener & Dahlia's litter









Meener & Jezzi's litter









Meener & Sandi's Litter









Meener & Wild Goddess's litter









Meener & G'Honner's litter









What do you guys think? Oh and I may have been wrong. A few look satin in natural lighting.


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

You can definitely tell that they are out of small litters, by how nice and fat they are. They all look great.


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## Anubis (Dec 19, 2010)

zoocrewmice said:


> You can definitely tell that they are out of small litters, by how nice and fat they are. They all look great.


i was just thinking the same thing :lol:


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

Actually each litter had 8 to 13. I culled down to 4 in each litter as directed by other breeders here to aid in my goal to breed larger mice.


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