# How do I get red?



## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

I have a few fawn mice...how do I make that a richer color to red?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

the best option is to get a buck of very good colour to put in.Easier said than done depending on contacts and locations.The second option is to breed lots in the desired colour and keep selecting for the deepest colour.As you are in the USA and most likely have recessive yellows it will take many generations to see an improvement.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

In South Carolina, you're not too terribly far from some folks with fantastic Ay reds. One of 'em will be at the World of Pets Expo in Virginia in February, which is about as close to you as most show breeders get.

If you can't get a hold of better reds to breed in, and you want black-eyed mice instead of pink-eyed, find the reddest agouti or chocolate you can find to breed in. You'll get red-carrying black-eyed mice in the first generation, so you'll have to breed those to eachother for 3/8ths of the litter to be black-eyed reds OR you can breed your carriers back to the fawn parent to get 1/4 of the litter as black-eyed-red red. Breeding to the fawn, you'll get more fawns (along with the reds) than if you bred the carriers together. But like Sarah said, it'll be a long loooong road to good rich deep reds if you're doing it from scratch.


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## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

Ok thank you! Just looking for more information if I decide to in the future. Are reds prone to health problems?


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

That depends. Recessive yellows aren't prone to anything at all. Brindles (which can be "red" if they don't have stripes) are prone to obesity. Ay can be prone to obesity, but the pure imported Ays don't seem to be as bad as the outcrossed ones. If you're buying from a breeder, that's one of the things that's definitely worth asking about before you decide on the mice. "Is this line prone to obesity?" wouldn't be considered rude or anything.


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## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

Ok thanks, yeah the woman I get them from breeds for feeders but has been doing it for two years or so and I was just curious if I ventured out what I could end up with.


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## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

So I may have scored a satin cinnamon buck! What would be the best cross with him to achieve more red?


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## NexivRed (Nov 8, 2015)

One of your fawns.


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## fancyfeet (Dec 21, 2015)

Wouldn't the pink eyes of the fawn pose a problem?


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, but if you're looking for red, you'll need the e-gene from the fawns in order to make red. You'd breed the cinnamon to the fawn, resulting in agouti and/or black pups that carry both chocolate and yellow. You can then breed those pups to eachother for a lower chance of producing pp pups, or back to the fawn parent for a higher chance at producing ee pups.
For reference, fawn is ee pp and red is ee P*. That said, your first few generations of genetic reds will probably still be the color of fawns. Breeding for intensity of pigment without getting access to show mice is a long road.


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## NexivRed (Nov 8, 2015)

Am I right in thinking if her fawn is Ay and not Avy, all the babies will be dark eyes yellows?

Edit: no, I'm wrong lol.


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