# Merle Piebalds



## Roland

The three pied merle girlies have little k-factors and therefore show little white, a typical sign for little k-factors are the headspots.
In Merle this is wanted (at least by me ;-), since Merle Piebalds with many k-factors are too light very often. 
The darkest girl is the best, they should have equal amounts of black & grey & white.

The type of recessive Merle Piebalds needs a lot of improvement, but this is what makes breeding exiting for me.









Kind regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


----------



## moustress

They're gorgeous! I like your little sig bloc slideshow. Ooh, they're clickable! Neato.


----------



## tipex

wow i love this colors....  :love :love :love :love :love :love

The black one is so so nice...I would have I would have I would have I would have lg Tipex... :gwavebw


----------



## SarahY

Oh. My. God. They are just amazingly gorgeous! Wow. Like tricolour in greyscale. Beautiful, Roland :love1

Sarah xxx


----------



## Megzilla

Oh my! So beautiful!! Congratulations, your mice have gone on my 'most beautiful mice' list! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## Jack Garcia

Roland, you do a great job!


----------



## WillowDragon

I will get some of these from you one day Roland!! Even if I have to wait years...


----------



## SiamMeece

Gorgeous, like Tricolor in Black and White! You are not a biologist, that's just a cover up for being a mouse artist


----------



## violet1991

STUNNING.... truly beautiful looking mice.


----------



## Rhasputin

Your most successful merle piebald there, is absolutely great I love the placement, and proportions of the colours.


----------



## Fun Family Rodentry

Wow these girls are beautiful!! Maybe I should add some piebald to my black merle line... hmmmm =] you have given me ideas!!


----------



## Roland

A Black Tan Merle and a Choco Tan Merle Satin buck. Notice the influence of Merle on the distribution of Tan at the belly.
Piebald has to be added and the type has to be improved, but sooner or later I will share these mice EXPLOSIVELY in Europe.


















Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


----------



## SiamMeece

Roland said:


> but sooner or later I will share these mice EXPLOSIVELY in Europe.


I can't wait :bash


----------



## Roland

SiamMeece said:


> Roland said:
> 
> 
> 
> but sooner or later I will share these mice EXPLOSIVELY in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait :bash
Click to expand...

Hi Charles,

how are your Spl/* and Spl/* s/s doing?

Best wishes, Roland


----------



## moustress

Very, very nice.


----------



## Rhasputin

I loooove the merle tans! They look so fabulous!


----------



## Fun Family Rodentry

Roland I think you have the prettiest mice I have ever seen!!


----------



## SiamMeece

Hi Roland,

The tricolors are doing great and they produced some really beautiful splashed offspring


----------



## thekylie

I love the merle tans too! That's a merle pattern I could see myself breeding. 

You should share these mice explosively in the US as well.


----------



## GypsyTails

Jumpin' Jahosephat, man! Those will be nice!


----------



## Roland

Hi, here is a comparisson of the first tan merle in my stud and the new generation:







Type and tan are better now.
I have three major Merle lines now: 
- Tan Satin line (shown here) has the best type and nice tan colour
- Black Merle Piebald (is black, grey and white) with bad type and pale bellies
- Extreme black Merle have very dark ears and tails, but lose the black markings easily and have pale bellies.

My goal is to combine the advantages of the three lines without combining the disadvantages.

Roland

PS: Thanks for the compliments. For me the most beautiful mice are the UK mice, eg Sarah's. Type is all what counts, colour is less important.


----------



## Lottiz

WOW, Roland!!! They are all beautiful, keep up the good work! i hope I can have some next summer. I cross my fingers you can make them as you wish,

-Lottiz


----------



## nuedaimice

Great job, Roland! They are just stunning!


----------



## Mymouse

Very beautiful mice you have there


----------



## Roland

Mymouse said:


> Very beautiful mice you have there


Thanks to all for the nice comments!

"Mymouse", is it difficult for you to import mice from other countries? Three breeders in your country are not much for keeping a broad genepool and many colours.
Ok, you will have to use a ship anyway, but if you do so, UK, Norway and Sweden and Germany are not far away.

You are invited to visit me and my mice in Germany and get some cuties for free!

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


----------



## moustress

Those tan piebald merles are so nice; I keep thinking about them...how did you improve the tan bellies? Or are they two completely different lines? Just wow. I agree with Rhaputin; they are just stunning! I'll stop by and fill my pockets one of these years.


----------



## Roland

moustress said:


> Those tan piebald merles are so nice; I keep thinking about them...how did you improve the tan bellies? Or are they two completely different lines? Just wow. I agree with Rhaputin; they are just stunning! I'll stop by and fill my pockets one of these years.


Hi, 
the red bellies of tans depend on the amount of pheomelanines. In Europe the variety with more than 100 years of selection for pheomelanine enhancing or enriching factors is dominant red (Ay/*). As discussed elsewhere the Ay/* often have health problems or are at least fat and infertile, but since they are a lethal mutation, they never breed true. You always get some A/* instead of Ay/* from breeding dominant reds, even when you breed Ay/* x Ay/*. These Agoutis are called Golden Agouti, because they carry the pheomelanine enhancing factores without the health problems. 
We are sure that in Europe the good tan lines (good means dark bellies here, not good type) have some Ay or Golden Agoutis in the ancestry.

Since there are very dark Ay/* and Golden Agoutis in the US now (Jack Garcia) it will be only a question of time until the tan bellies improve in the US very much too.

As mentioned before elsewhere, I think dominant reds should not be bred for the broad mass of mouse lovers and pet shops, but they are of course valuable "material" in the hands of experienced breeders like Jack, and I trust on his skills as a breeder and his knowledge of human nature ;-)

Ok, back to the question: I got one single tiny merle buck from the USA only. This single buck is the forefather of all Merle in Europe. I crosed him to seven not related European showtype mice to get several lines and since I thought merle is dominant, I hoped to get many merle offspring, but I got hundreds of black mice only. After several backcrossing experiments I noticed that the variety of merle, which is here, is recessive. It took some time, but I used and still use the following method to improve them:

Merle x Good Tan -> pale bellies in F1, only black (tans), no merle, but all are carriers for merle.
F1 x F1 -> F2 = Some Black Tan merle.
Black Tan merle from F2 x Good European Black Tan with dark belly -> only black (tans), no merle, but all are carriers for merle, and the bellies are a little better...
... and so on and on in circles.

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


----------



## moustress

The display of recessive yellows on your website is very interesting. I'm in the process of switching from unbrindled A^vy to ee for both my self yellow/red and my problematic yellow/red tris, as I'm tired of my best marked ones getting too fat to breed. I was confused about your use of the term 'chocolate' and 'black', but then I got it as a reference to underlying genetics and differences in the appearance of the yellow or red shades.

As far as dominant red goes, Id just as soon not use them, or at least not breed them on purpose. Golden agouti, however, is something I would very much be interested in getting my hands on as I love the nice deep orange bellies on your tans. thanks so much for al the good information.


----------



## Roland

Thank you, you are welcome.
Btw, it is very easy to lose the pheomelanine enhancing factors, which have been collected in the dominant reds or Golden Agoutis by many generations of mouse breeders for more than 100 years now. You just have to cross a dark setter red mouse with a very typey PEW or Champagne with the goal to improve the type of the dark red mice, and you will get a heavy drawback to pale red. That is the milestone, where the skilled breeders get separated form the beginners. It is not easy to keep the dark pheomelanie AND add good type. On the other hand you should never continue inbreeding of the dark red line for a long time, since inbreeding depression will kill the line sooner or later. The balance between outcrossing and backcrossing, and heavy selection is the way to improve colour AND type AND health.

Regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


----------



## bethmccallister

Yes, some day soon I will be knocking on Jack's front door since I'm not too terribley far away. I plan to carry away anyone he would part with  Then there will be a another breeder out there in the US attempting to improve on those amazing tan bellies and vibrant reds.


----------



## moustress

Realistically, I'm more likely to get a golden agouti through someone here in the US once Jack has passed on his surplus to other breeders. While I don't really care for the color of the red meeces, I am keen to see nice tan bellies in my mousery. It may take a while, but I suspect that by this time next year, someone in the Chicago or Madison area will be able to hand carry one or three to me. I'm patient. I always have had a long outlook on matters of breeding. In the meanwhile, I'll keep doing what I'm doing with my recessive yellows/reds and turn out more bright orange and red-orange meeces.


----------



## PiaLouise

Those are the most beautiful mice I have seen in my life! Do we have merle in the UK?


----------



## SarahC

no we don't.As far as I'm aware Roland has the only merles in Europe.


----------



## PiaLouise

There's gotta be a company that will travel some mice over so we can spread this gene! It's stunning! <3


----------



## SarahC

you would need to liase with Roland before looking in to couriers.


----------



## PiaLouise

So if we are able to share the genes across the world, why are we not doing it more often? I thought it would be illegal to transport mice across countries!


----------



## Velvet_Meece

Its not that we can't import them, but more the breeders don't always want to share.


----------



## SarahC

Lots of us are sharing genes,it's not illegal.Stock is frequently traded between the UK,Sweden,Germany,the Netherlands and Denmark.Usually swapped /sold and collected at shows or you can drive over yourself or hire a courier.Mice coming from the USA are subject to UK quarantine laws which are costly and governed by the law of the land.Not everyone breeds to sell/swap and there's no obligation to.


----------



## PiaLouise

Wow, I have learned so much...AGAIN! This is awesome! It would probably cost a bomb though! Our quarantine laws are so strict in the UK because if I am correct, we are one of few countries that haven't got rabies!? Feel free to correct and educate me on this if I am wrong.
I only wondered why LOADS of people aren't into buying mice from out of their continents, because to me, expanding the gene pool like that can only mean exciting things! 
I will say this again, those merle mice are absolutely stunning! Thanks for sharing them


----------



## SarahY

> I only wondered why LOADS of people aren't into buying mice from out of their continents, because to me, expanding the gene pool like that can only mean exciting things!


There are a few reasons really.

Firstly, the cost is very prohibitive. It costs hundreds, sometimes thousands, of pounds to bring in mice from another country; even if you only consider the car fuel and ferry to drive over.

Secondly, mice are fragile and don't take the stress of moving all that well, and quite often can become sick upon arrival to their destination. If they die, that money is wasted which makes it a rather expensive risk.

Thirdly, bringing in mice means that you are bringing new germs and bacteria. Mice in isolated groups, like any stud of mice, carry all kinds of illnesses and bacteria to which they are immune. Bringing in new mice risks your original stud, which have no immunity to the new germs and bacteria. Even if one quarantines, they are just keeping the same conditions and the new carriers of illness may appear to be in perfect health for months, but as soon as they move into the main stud an outbreak of illness may occur in your original stock. Likewise, the new arrivals have no immunity to the germs and bacteria in the stock you already keep, and could all die within days of arriving into the stud.

So you see it is a big risk in many ways and can be fruitless!


----------



## tsunamis

On another note, I'm surprised the gene hasnt spread in Germany that much. Rolan has sold Merle mice before as far as I know?


----------



## Miceandmore64

OMG that black one is the best mouse I have ever seen!
So beautiful!!!!!!!!!


----------



## candycorn

To my understanding Roland will not sell his mice.


----------



## Emilie

Stunning mice


----------



## Roland

SarahC said:


> no we don't.As far as I'm aware Roland has the only merles in Europe.


Hi Sarah,

Happy Easter! I lost your email address, please contact me privately to discuss how we get some Merle to UK.

Yours, Roland

Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


----------



## SarahC

Roland said:


> SarahC said:
> 
> 
> 
> no we don't.As far as I'm aware Roland has the only merles in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Easter! I lost your email address, please contact me privately to discuss how we get some Merle to UK.
> 
> Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
Click to expand...

 Thank you.Happy Easter to you and yours.Email address forwarded.


----------



## tsunamis

candycorn said:


> To my understanding Roland will not sell his mice.


(hi Roland!)

Roland does sell mice. 
Problem is 98% of mice breeders probably aren't able to recreate a full thriving stock of meeces from only a trio or two though 

If I didn't have my brokens and herefords already I'd jump on the opportunity of breeding merle.


----------



## FranticFur

Beautiful. I like how the darkest mouse has a little diamond on her head.


----------



## PiaLouise

This is insane, can't believe we don't have these mice here. We must be able to recreate them somehow !


----------



## Roland

PiaLouise said:


> This is insane, can't believe we don't have these mice here. We must be able to recreate them somehow !


I have a nice collaboration with some of the best breeders from NL and UK who got about 50 of my mice for free (!) just recently.
Good luck!

Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


----------



## PiaLouise

Well, if we get any of them here in the UK, I will bloody walk to the other end of the country if I have to, just to buy 2 off them if it is possible, and if someone was willing to share with me! I have never seen anything so beautiful in all my life! 
Ich spreche Deutch, aber nicht so gut. Ihre Merle Mäuse sind sehr schön. Sie sehr viel Glück! 
ich studierte Deutsch in der Schule. Ich studierte es für 6 Jahre.


----------



## Roland

PiaLouise said:


> Well, if we get any of them here in the UK, I will bloody walk to the other end of the country if I have to, just to buy 2 off them if it is possible, and if someone was willing to share with me! I have never seen anything so beautiful in all my life!
> Ich spreche Deutsch, aber nicht so gut. Ihre Merle Mäuse sind sehr schön. Sie sehr viel Glück!
> ich studierte Deutsch in der Schule. Ich studierte es für 6 Jahre.


Ihr Deutsch ist sehr gut und viel besser als mein Englisch.
Ich wünsche einen schönen Sonntag!


----------



## SarahC

after an uneventful quarantine,the mice kindly supplied by Roland have mostly littered or are about to.They have all been outcrossed so there will be no actual merle in the litters.These will be the foundations


----------



## moustress

I really liked the pied tan merles a lot too. Hope to see some more soon.


----------



## krazykritterz

How beautiful. We don't have Merle where I'm from but I have always wanted one.


----------



## SarahC

have had an explosion of babies.Mostly reds and blacks.


----------



## Roland

SarahC said:


> have had an explosion of babies.Mostly reds and blacks.


I am very very happy about these news and keep my fingers crossed! Good luck!

Roland


----------



## PiaLouise

oooh pics please!! : D


----------



## SarahC

there's nothing worth seeing yet.They are all carriers and visually just like any other mixed bag of mice.


----------



## PPVallhunds

I take it you will eventualy be trying to get them accepted yes? What section would they go in AOV or marked?


----------



## SarahC

no fixed ideas, that can come later and involve will other mousers.Just wanting to get a robust line of breeding animals in standardised colours initially.They've bred freely so far.


----------



## Cait

These are the first merles born in the UK


----------



## moustress

Gorgeous! :mrgreen:

I've had meeces with coats that look a lot like these guys. I've often wondered about the origins of merle. I had coats like these show up in several splashed/tri litters in recessive yellow, chocolate, and black. The first time was when I crossed brindled with splashed.

I've read what I could find on the subject; still wondering.


----------



## SarahC

I get them as well moustress and I do wonder about the possibility of accidently mixing varieties up


----------



## PiaLouise

omg I just died! Hurry and make more so I can come and buy some  muhuhahaaa  I am pretty sure I would drive 500miles to get my hands on these! xxx


----------



## SarahC

we want to work on a standard and present them as an exhibition animal so it will be a while before any are available.


----------



## MiataLife

Drool!


----------



## SarahC

the merles have been mostly healthy and fertile.Numbers are climbing nicely so it should be possible to start selecting for desirable traits in the next generations.
merle
























roan


----------



## andypandy29us

I love these x


----------



## firstmice

me too! especially the Roan :love


----------



## SarahC

colour is coming good.Soon be in a position to make constructive selections.Some are now showing the merling before they open their eyes which helps


----------



## SarahY

These are looking lovely, Sarah! :love1


----------



## SarahC

thanks,I'm pleased it all seems to be going well so far.


----------

