# Why do you breed?



## Fraction

I've been lurking a lot on here lately, and I've been wondering:

What was it that made you decide to breed mice?

Do you breed to improve the health of mice available as pets and show stock? To improve on colours available? To win at shows? To provide pinkies for reptile breeders and owners (or for your own reptiles)?

There's a big distinction, it seems, between breeding mice and breeding dogs, which is something I've researched heavily the last few years. You breed a dog to improve the breed - to make sounder and healthier, well-driven, beautiful animals (unless you're a backyard breeder or mill).

It doesn't seem like people breed mice for the money--which is a trademark of the dog BYB world--as, if done correctly, breeding mice (and dogs!) will often result in breaking even at best, but often taking a slight or even significant loss.

I'm not accusing anyone here of being on par with a dog BYBer. I'm just curious as to what made people get into breeding mice in the first place - what is their aims and objectives in doing so?


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## SarahY

I breed purely to compete in shows. If I didn't show mice, I wouldn't breed them at all.


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## SarahC

I'm the same as Sarahy.I did actually want to show dogs but my emotional attachment was so great and the worry of homing pups to big,so mice it is.I do use the surplus to feed to my own animals so have no worry about rehoming.


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## willa2602

I first bred to produce enough mice of the same age and similar genetic and environmental background to use for a behavioural study for my dissertation. Since I have bred a very few for pets and just enough to feed one snake.
Annie


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## PPVallhunds

I first got into mice when they got a load in at college where i work, all were mixed intougher when they came in so had lots of litters to sort out and after rehoming 30 mice kept back a few i liked the best and eventualy bred them so we didnt end up with a bunch of deceped oldies being man handled by students. I then started breeding for siamese as i love that type. Now im hoping to get into breeding to show.


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## Fraction

SarahC and SarahY - what made you decide, out of all the animals you could possibly have chosen to breed for show, on mice? Just curious - did you have mice as pets first and loved them? Or did you like the look of them?

I have a somewhat difficult time in my head seperating show dog breeders and show mouse breeders. I have to keep telling myself that you can't exactly breed for working ability and drive in mice!


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## SarahY

I love rats and used to breed them, but I'm mightily allergic to male rats and the ethics/politics of most people in the rat fancy just don't agree with me so I stopped (although I am planning to keep a small line of self black dumbo rats). I don't have the space for cavies or rabbits. I don't find hamsters appealing. So I chose to breed and exhibit mice and I'm so happy. I love my mice and the National Mouse Club, no other hobby could suit me better!



> I have to keep telling myself that you can't exactly breed for working ability and drive in mice!


No, but you breed for excellence in shape, size and colour/pattern. You can't really compare the two


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## Tinkers Mousery

I always used to have mice as pets and just used to have a couple of litters to sell as pets, but I used to get fed up of poor quality mice and all the health problems u used to get. Once I found out about the nmc I deffinately knew it was something I wanted to do and I absolutely love it.  the mice are of so much better quality


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## jadeguppy

I got my first mice to teach my students about conditioning and was hooked. I breed for genetics and to improve the line. I find that if I dont' have something to keep my mind exercised, I get very bored. I like that they take up very little space, but are friendly and can be held. Besides, if I change my mind or get too busy to be in the hobby, my long term responsibilities to the animals is rather short in comparison to many other species. I can't imagine having two or three dozen dogs.


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## The Boggit keeper

Hi, from a slightly different perspective, 
I have chosen NOT to breed mice because I don't think I could be a responsible breeder as I am sure I would have problems with culling( I'm too damn soft  ) I would love to have the satisfaction and opportunities of breeding, producing and showing my own stock but I just don't think i'm cut out for it. Please understand, I have no problems with culling(done humanely)I just don't know if I could do it myself, hence I am resigned to remaining a keeper of mice as pets.


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## Tinkers Mousery

hi boggit keeper, i totally understand. iv always thought that i could never cull pinkies ect but when you see your mice starting to do well on the show bench your always aiming to breed bigger and better mice and to do so you need less in a litter.

When i first started i swore i wasnt going to cull. so i used to pick of what i didnt need with my show lines and foster them over onto my pet mice, this way i didnt have to cull anything. However i soon found out this was in no way a sustainable way to go about things. i soon ended up with over 200 pet mice and couldnt sell anything.

Now i dont keep any pet mice just mice that i am exhibiting. i cull all of my litters down to a max of 6 ( allthough anything that needs to be culled goes to my grandads house and he culls them for me as i cant do it lol) so my litters are nice and fat and healthy and im producing good quality mice.

so really all i can say is never say never  coz u never know


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## SarahC

The Boggit keeper said:


> Hi, from a slightly different perspective,
> I would love to have the satisfaction and opportunities of breeding, producing and showing my own stock but I just don't think i'm cut out for it.


Thats exactly how I felt about the dogs and I'm happy to accept my limitations.I got interested in the mice because my son had some pet ones.I enjoy the showing side of things.


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## The Boggit keeper

Thank you Tinkers Mousery and Sarah C. 

I think it's because I've alway kept Mice as pets for as long as I can remember- there's always been a mouse-or-two (well maybe 6-or-more would probably be more honest  )as part of the family,so maybe that why I can't get around the culling thing but You never know I may toughen up one day! :roll: :lol:

Until that day comes I'll have to be happy from enjoying Mouse Fancy from the outside so to speak, one things for sure though, I've already thought about my new years resolution and that's to try and get to some Mouse shows in 2012, family commitments have managed to conspire against me so far this year!


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## Tinkers Mousery

well i certainly look forward to meeting you at some shows soon


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## Velvet_Meece

I had mice as a child just as pets, including two females i bought who BOTH turned out to be pregnant, ended up with 19 :roll:

I started breeding properly nearly 4 years ago now, and i actually got into it as a feeder breeder, i owned around 40 snakes and lizards then and food bills were just too much, so i started out with a colony of lab mice, a colony of rats and a colony of multi's and it went from there.

I then became a big time feeder breeder supplying my local snake breeder with around 200 mice and around 60 rats per month as well as feeding my own.

A year ago something terrible happened in my life, i had to get rid off nearly all my rodents, i gave all my breeding stock to the snake man, and only kept my hairless fuzzies and abysinnian mice as well as my exotics zebras, spinies and my lemmings.

I also had to cut down my reptile collection dramatically, selling around 300 tarantulas, snakes and lizards. now i own around just a dozen reps.

While i had such a small amount i needed something to do with my time, so i purchased a couple of show mice and thought i'd have a blast at breeding properly.
I've only been doing this for just under a year now so i'm no where near to a standard most of these guys are but i hope to be one day 

I must say in 4 years of breeding i could count on one hand the amount of times i've culled pinkies, always chose to buy them because i will only gas mice and it just didn't sit well with me putting live pinks in a freezer, but i will do it if necessary.

My collection has grown again now, but still not to the level it was and i do not keep exotic rodents or rats anymore.

I much prefer it this way and to be honest i wasn't a great feeder breeder, and i did end up out of pocket some months, my mice were fed good food, not cheap stuff or pellets, they lived in tanks with toys and treats, i bred to pet standard not food standard and they were always offered up for sale as pets before they went for food.
I became well known for breeding some of the healthiest pet rats around, my rats were born and bred of shavings outside, they didn't suffer any illnesses, respiratory infections or tumors, never once had a rat die from any of those, was dead proud really and am gutted that my lines no longer exist...but thats life, you get back up and try something new  but this time something thats more fitting for soft ol' me


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## Frizzle

^^ That's really neat, I'm sorry to here about your animals loss.

I'm just starting with raising and breeding mice, as of the end of September. I really enjoy the different varieties, and have always liked genetics. There is just something about pairing up two animals with the knowledge that the offspring could look totally different! Or the same, if you are trying for that. Anyone ever heard of creature breeder? I was really into that, even created my own "variety" of Fuzzies, the Quadrangle. It literally took me, oh, about 6 months to do, but the end result was so amazing and rewarding! Mice are like the real world version of the game. With some time and experimentation, I'll figure out what varieties I want to work with. I know to take the breeding in little steps, and that its going to take much longer then my internet stimulation ever did.

They are small, cheap, and friendly. : )


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## kittygirl991

i havnt bred yet, but why i would is for experiance mostly, i would like to work with animals when im older maybe, or when i have my own house, with a spare room, become a mouse breeder and maybe then show my mice ( thats why i would like experiance now  )


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## Shadowrunner

Lol on the sims game frizzle.
I got my first mouse at 13 and loved them dearly.
I was already breeding show birds and my mother was a siamese cat breeder for a long time before that so I grew up in a home of breeding. My grandmother was breeding rough collies and Persian cats before I was born. We always had a project going. But I had to downsize from show birds when we moved. I had about 50 breeding gouldian finches, and that's a lot of space. I looked at my mouse holly and saw a new route for my hobby. It was so wonderful to know I didn't have to give up something I enjoyed so much. The problem was as it is with translating from dogs,the genetics and networks are different. I'm such a noob it's silly. I have used the sim Eaglevalley.com (for dogs) as a guide, but I'm still rough cut. I really was sad to re-home all of my birds that I worked so hard to get and breed to show standard, but I breed mice now to regain that confidence I had then. When I could walk into a show ring and was known by the adults as a worthy breeder. I want that respect back, that's why I breed. ^ ^


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## mousery_girl

.. i just love having sh*t loads of mice  they're so damn cute!!!!


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## Elven

Breeding for snakefood mostly. I have kept mice for about 15 years now, and offcourse it started with couple petmice. 
I do keep my mice near the show-quality, even though they are feeders, just because showmice look so much better to my eye. But I dont keep any single colours of mice, just anything that I happen to fancy at the moment.


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## MoonfallTheFox

How about why I don't breed? 

Because there's too many mice in need of homes. Because my mice are not even close to breeder stock. Because my does would struggle to birth because they're small. Because they all have some kind of "Baggage", and an issue or two. Because, as much as I love baby animals and mice, it isn't fair of me to make more when there are mice needing safety and comfort out there that I could be helping. If I have space, I will bring a needy mouse into my home and give it a life of love and affection, too many toys, and friends. With so, so many in need, so many suffering to snakes, so many who are alone, neglected, abused, or labelled as mean because they bite, or the owner doesn't know better, I have no reason to make more. There has never been a birth under my roof, accidental or otherwise, and there never will be unless I manage to rescue something pregnant. I'm a nurturing person (towards animals anyway!) and I'll do anything to see something recover. I've done the whole every two hours round the clock feedings for a deformed deer mouse who died within four days of constant work. She opened her eyes the day before she died, but had the body of a week old baby. No fur, skinny, small, and struggling with bloat constantly. Poor baby. I've done the same for kittens, and I will do everything I can for every animal who ends up at my door no matter the situation. If it needs help, I will give it help. I've rehabbed for release, I watched a young squirrel take his first steps onto grass and I swear there's no feeling like it in the world to see something you've worked so hard for be successful in the wild, or recover from horrible illness or injury.

I wouldn't give that up for anything and I would never take away "slots" for animals I am creating. Helping those who are already here is top priority, even if it means euthanasia or another quick death. I was faced with beheading something that was suffering, once. Was on my way to get the axe and he died in my hands- a baby snake a girl had run over with a bike. His brain was partially crushed. She thought she was going to keep him, took three hours to wrestle him away from her so I could put him out of his obvious misery. He died on the way, I think he knew it was time to go.

I wouldn't take away the chance that I could help suffering and living animals, not for anything. Birth is incredible. I've watched a dog have her pups. Everyone else thought it was gross, I thought it was amazing. But to see something suffer tugs at me in a way nothing else can and even though babies are cute the animals who truly NEED my help come first.


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## SarahC

MoonfallTheFox said:


> How about why I don't breed?
> .


Because both this thread and site are primarily for breeders including and embracing reptile keepers.It's lovely that you are so dedicated but there are very few people on this particular site with your goals/ethics and it is intended to keep it that way as there are many sites available for petkeepers out there ntopic :thx


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## Viry

*MoonfallTheFox*

Maybe Fancy Mice Keepers would be a good forum for you as well, as I think it would suit you as a petkeeper better? Besides, it needs more active members. 

Also, although your opinions and views are your own, I think everyone here tries to make their meeces suffer as little as possible - including those that are mainly brought up as feeders. As far as opinions go, I've recently come to the conclusion that if I'm going to cull a perfectly healthy mouse for any reason, I'd rather its death could help give an other animal a good life.

And as for why I breed, it's a difficult question as my soon to be first litter is going to be one from a mouse I bought pregnant. I want to breed for 'temper/personality', colour and health, however. My main focus is good pet mice, as there are few - if any - breeders in Sheffield and the two good pet shops that did sell mice are no longer selling them. So, I think I would make both myself, and people wanting pet mice in the Sheffield area happy by breeding them. I've been planning for it for a little while now, reading up on it since before I even got my own mice, so I think I'm ready when the time comes. First, I want to take care of Anya's litter though.


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## Kingnoel

I'm a dog breeder/shower, reptile raiser and hope to show my first litters of mice soon. I do it for the same reasons. Started out raising mice for the snakes and then discovered show mice. So now I have pet store mice to feed the snakes and show mice for me. Being a dog breeder CAN be very heartbreaking but like mice the rewards are so wonderful. I agree with moonfall, watching a litter be born is fascinating!


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## Frizzle

Just wanted to say, I did find a nearby wildlife rescue who is VERY interested in taking extra mice off my hands. Its good news for me, because that means I can expand my operation with the knowledge that I won't have a ton of mice stored in the freezer that no-one is ever gonna use. Plus, I can put it on resumes that I "volunteer" by providing quality mice. Booyah!


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## SarahY

This thread got seriously off topic, so I have split the posts relating to Taxidermy to this thread: http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9136 
and the posts relating to feeding snakes to this thread: http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9137&p=81292#p81292


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