# how to breed mice?



## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i have read up on it dont worry but... theres a problem :/ so my male and females know eachother but when i put my girls in the males tank ( i read if u put the male in the girls they will fight ) the male is very keen to breed, but when he makes a move my girls squeek and push him away and run, and he is more keen to breed with milly, but i did wanna breed him with maisie, any suggestions?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Typical behavior for virgin females.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

Just leave alone and within a day or so they will get it right. Your does will come on heat every 4-6 days, So at the maximum, the colony will settle in six days.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i only want to breed one of my girls, i wanna leave 1 in with my male but im afraid when i put the female back in the girls tank ( a few days later ) the girls will fight


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

They shouldn't fight at all, but the best idea would be to leave her in with the male until she looks in kindle, then move her to her own cage to litter.


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## Mouse Queen 96 (Jul 11, 2011)

Well since you have them all together already you may end up with both females pregnant.... They won't fight, take the one you don't want bred out.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I missed that bit... yes, if you put females in with a male, then expect them both to be in kindle. Why did you put a mouse you didn't want to breed in with the buck?


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i was watching them -.- but the girls didnt let him


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## Viry (Oct 31, 2011)

Were you watching them between midnight and 6am? 'Cause that's the common hours were they tend to breed (ie. female in heat). Of course, it's not always true... Still. Take the one you don't want bred out, put maisie in and... well, supervise if you feel the need to, but otherwise, have patience. Check on them, but leave them together for a week or two, and then see if magic happens.


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

You really ought to have not put in the tank the doe you didn't want to breed from. I don't understand at all why you would have put both does in when you only wanted to breed one of them.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

if i put one girl in the males tank and a week later put the girls back together, will they fight


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

That's not true. You said you read up on breeding, but you're posting a thread called 'how to breed mice' after you've already started. You're going at things a bit backwards. :|


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

I thought you said you'd researched all this, KG. A quick flick through half the threads here on the forum would show that a lot of people remove a female from the colony until she is pregnant (sometimes until after her babies have been born and are ready to be split) and then reintegrate her back into the colony.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i have read up, but not about this


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## Viry (Oct 31, 2011)

But you have to read up about all of it before you start, dear, otherwise it just feels like you're breeding for the sake of breeding and hoping that other people will clean up the eventual mess. It's better that you ask later than not at all, don't get me wrong, but as this is quite essential knowledge (imo) to mouse breeding, one would assume that, *as you'd allegedly read up on everything you thought you might need to know*, you'd read up on this too before introducing them.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, we can't go back in time. So, now you know, the simplest way to breed is to remove the female you want from the colony and add her to the buck's tank. Within a week, she'll need a tank of her own (safest) or she can go back into the tank she shares with her friend (easiest). Since both does have been in with the buck, both could be pregnant, even if you didn't see them have sex. It's a very short event, and some mice are more private than others. Just in case, I'd keep them in separate tanks, as some does get territorial when they're pregnant, and *that* could make them fight. Remove the doe you didn't want to get pregnant, to reduce her chances. After a week, remove the doe you did want pregnant, and get her her own place. Wait another three weeks. By the end of that time, if you haven't got babies in either tank, re-introduce the two does. In the mean time, you'll really need to be reading up on how to handle the babies, what to do if there are complications, and what your next steps need to be.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i want to put her back in with her friend so she can be the "nanny"


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Be aware that if they are both pregnant, they may fight over territory, and/or over the babies once they're born. Your best result is that only one is pregnant, has her babies safely, and they care for them together. Your worst result is that both are pregnant, do eachother serious damage, possibly killing one or both. I would argue that, since neither of these does have been bred by you before, and you haven't bred any of their relatives, you can't know which is more likely. For their safety, I suggest separating them. If only one is pregnant (and it should be obvious two to three weeks from now which if either is pregnant), the risk of injury from keeping them together is much less than if both are. Some breeders are successfully able to breed multiple does simultaneously while they cohabitate. For others, accidentally or deliberately keeping pregnant does together has led to gruesome scenes.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

BUT....if she is pregnant she really shouldnt be the nanny. Since you dont know the lineage of your mice, they could end up fighting over babies or killing each others babies. You dont really want that now, do you? At this point she cant be the nanny unless shes not pregnant. I agree that you need to learn a whole lot more before starting. People are writing you a lot of good information and you are not showing that you understand or appreciate any of it. Please stop and review what you know and what you need to know first. Please.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

tinyhartmouseries said:


> People are writing you a lot of good information and you are not showing that you understand or appreciate any of it. Please stop and review what you know and what you need to know first. Please.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Kittygirl, Laigaie's advice is extremely sound and I would *strongly *suggest you follow that exact course of action.



> i want to put her back in with her friend so she can be the "nanny"


Although this has worked for other fanciers, I have experienced no gain, only loss from this. If it goes wrong the 'nanny' may wipe out the litter by killing or maiming them, or she may steal them and starve them, but if it goes right there's still not really any benefit over littering a doe alone. It doesn't result in more healthy kittens. So, if I were you, I'd litter the doe(s) in kindle alone. I will just say it's not a pleasant scene when a second doe has wiped out a litter. It's your first litter(s), you want to give it the best chance of success.

On a standpoint of basic logic, you want ALL of a mother's energy to go into feeding her litter to make them big and strong and keeping the nest and kittens clean. For example, if you leave toys in with a nursing doe, she will expend valuable energy running/chewing/whatever which she could be using to care for and feed her brood. Likewise, if you leave another doe in there it gives something else for the mother to waste energy on. Does need to be quiet and undisturbed to give the best to their litters.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

well my mum used to breed mice :/ and they didnt fight, there not both pregnant, i know it! and 1 might be but i doubt it, for it was only in his tank for 30mins-1hour and she wouldnt let him


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

While your mother may have bred mice social enough that they did well breeding together, my understanding is that these mice aren't actually related to those. Different lines of mice will act very differently. I didn't realize you meant that they'd only been together for a very short period of time. In that case, you may yet have time to research more before breeding.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

theres alot of pages for nannys i have read, and breeders who have colonys normaly keep the mum and friends/family which are also girls with her, and milly is maisies sister, they have grown up together, and the pet shop owner i got them from said he got them form a local breeder


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

and if the nanny starts to kill, or take them for her own i will take her out, but ive read nannies are a big help, helping deliver them, keep them warm and feeding the mother during pregnancy when she cant moce well and stuff like that, the only thign a nanny cant do is feed them


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

kittygirl991 said:


> theres alot of pages for nannys i have read, and breeders who have colonys normaly keep the mum and friends/family which are also girls with her, and milly is maisies sister, they have grown up together, and the pet shop owner i got them from said he got them form a local breeder


Ive allways used nannies in the past and prefur to keep pregnant girls tougher so they can help feed each others litters, my first females birthed and raised in a group of 10. then the ones i kept birthed and raised litters in a group of five, then i got in some new blood to the ones i kept and they birthed and raised a litter in a group of three and i kept one female on her own to birth. My current siamese group orignaly came from these mice however only 1 can be trusted with litters so far, the two litter sisters i kept tougher and both litters were born tougher and both litters were killed by one or both females. So eventough they are sisters and allways been tougher and came from mice who had nannies these two are compleatly diffrent and will be kept alown for there next litters. Ive had two other mice i couldnt trust in the past, one of which was new and the other came from my mice who all had nannies.

So keep in mind, what works for one mouse (or someoen else) may not work for another. So be prepared for all outcomes.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i will, like i said if the nanny starts to go bad i will remove her, and if she is good i can trust her!


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

Be aware that if things go wrong it will probably happen in the middle of the night and the entire litter may be gone by the time you wake up in the morning. Also, keep in mind that there are many people that have bred mice, but not many that know the current best practices for getting the best pet or show mice possible. Research is continually being done and methods keep getting better. Prior to the modern version of the internet, best practices knowledge was avalible to very few people, especially in the U.S..

Things to think about:
What will you feed the doe while pregnant and while nursing?
Will you cull? If so, starting when and based on what criteria?
Can you tell the difference between a male and female newborn?
Do you know the feeding styles of both genders when born?
What will you house the doe and bubs in?
Are you willing to risk the doe dying as a result of being bred/pregnant?
How many does can you house in your current "main" tank/bin?
Do you have enough homes for all the mice that may be born, including a single home per male?

There are many more things you should know, but this is a start.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Jade's questions are very good. If you can answer all of them and not ignore her posting, then you are ready to breed. If you don't know the answers to even one question you need more research.

Why do you feel you NEED a nanny? Family members can be a bad choice because jealousy can occur. This brings with it baby snatching, killing, and eating. If you value the litter at all the only surefire way to ensure their safety is to just keep mom alone. Don't you understand this? SarahY is a moderator a long time breeder of some award winning mice. I'd listen, if I were you. I don't understand why you keep asking questions and then ignoring the answers you don't like, no matter how factual they are.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

1. i have read up on this, vegetables, fruit, porridge and things that will be good for her and babies 
2.i doubt it
3. yes, i have looked deep into this 
4.no, i have never read about this
5. a house
6. dont all people that breed mice?
7. i dont know, i would say 5-6
8.no, but most breeders i talk to or in pet shops, they house brothers together

many breeders have there own way of breeding


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i am listening, i have tried to answer as many posts as possible.. in my other post of should i breed mice you all seemed quite happy i should :/


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Sorry, I decided to delete my post and now it doesn't make sense. I don't see any point in trying to help further, although I will say that firstly, fruit and vegetables will give mice diarrhea, and secondly, no, most breeders can't house males together because they fight.

In your other post I was merely saying that age shouldn't stop anyone if they have the support of their parents etc. Since that thread you have been posting incorrect information all over the place and seem quite determined to do things your way despite many experienced people trying to help you.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

too many fruit and veg does, but small doses is fine, and i have the support of my mum, when she was my age she bred alot of animals including mice, and she kept males together and they were fine, i have read its possible to keep males together if introduced at a young age, plus it will only be for a short while


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Fruit and vegetables won't help, they have little to offer growing mice. In fact, you may as well steer clear of them altogether! Potato, bread, chicken, those are the things you want to be feeding. Carbs and protein.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

ah, i see, i have read though for pregnant mothers a tiny bit of veggies are okay and have nutriments, thanks for the info tho, i have also read bread soaked with a tiny bit of skimmed milk is good? is it true?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

You avoided answering, didn't answer, and were incorrect on several of those important questions. You are not ready to breed, frankly. Keep researching, and for now, please keep your mice separate, as some of the errors in your information could result in un-necessary suffering of your animals.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

Rhasputin said:


> You avoided answering, didn't answer, and were incorrect on several of those important questions. You are not ready to breed, frankly. Keep researching, and for now, please keep your mice separate, as some of the errors in your information could result in un-necessary suffering of your animals.


what? like i said i tried answering to as many posts as i could, i am fully prepared for everything that might or will come


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

and rhasputin, wasnt you one of the few people to disagree with me on my post should i breed mice,


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

kittygirl991 said:


> Rhasputin said:
> 
> 
> > You avoided answering, didn't answer, and were incorrect on several of those important questions. You are not ready to breed, frankly. Keep researching, and for now, please keep your mice separate, as some of the errors in your information could result in un-necessary suffering of your animals.
> ...


You were given a list of questions, and several of your answers were insufficient. Especially that you want to keep males together, and wanted to feed fruit and veggies to your mice. Your mice can end up sick, and dying, from your insufficient research. 
All you have the space for is 5-6 cages? What if your doe has a litter of 12, and they're all boys?
You said you doubt you are going to cull. What if you -have- to?
'Most breeders i talk to' must not be very many, because very few experienced breeders will keep buck together except for on very rare occassions.

You are clearly not fully prepared, as you couldn't even answer the questions in the list properly. There are important things about even simple care for mice, that you so far have failed to demonstrate knowledge of.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

kittygirl991 said:


> and rhasputin, wasnt you one of the few people to disagree with me on my post should i breed mice,


One of the few people? I think you need to look back in this thread, and see how many people are trying to discourage you from breeding right now. You're not ready. You need more research.


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

At this point I think it's a lost cause. This person is going to do what they want, regardless of the advise given.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

m137b said:


> At this point I think it's a lost cause. This person is going to do what they want, regardless of the advise given.


I hate to admit that I agree with this.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

well no there was only 1-2 people who disagreed while loads of other agreed, and if i had to cull them, if the animal was suffering i would, no not 5-6 cages -.- i only have 3 tanks, and no, lots of people house males together, like i said, people have different ways of breeding and the males wouldnt be together long because i would re-home them


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

and yes i am listening to you all, but i also have points, i have read as much as i can about breeding mice, my mum used to breed mice, i have talked to breeders, and more


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

What if you can't rehome them? SYou'll probably be stuck with them. You'll have to have separate cages for them. If you only have THREE cages, that's even worse that 5-6.

Lots of people DO NOT house males together, because they KILL each other.

You're going to do what you want no matter how much people on here try to help you. Why did you even ask for help if you aren't listening to anything anyone is saying?

You're NOT listening. We are a wealth of information, and we're giving it to you for free, but you want to do what -you- think is right, and not what experienced breeders tells you is right.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Why am I arguing with a 12 year old? Because at least I know I've told her enough times what to do, and what she's doing wrong, that in a few months when she posts a thread saying 'HELP I HAVE TOO MANY MICE' or 'HELP MY BOYS ARE KILLING EACH OTHER' I will be in no way, at fault.

I feel bad for your mice.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

well i am listening, and yes i have got homes for them, this is supposed to be a mice breeding site is it not? well, how do you begin breeding?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

You begin by learning what you need to know. 
Start there.


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

Like I said pointless.

It's a waste of time to argue with someone who can not comprehend that their assumptions could be wrong.

Your going to do what you want, regardless of what anyone says to you.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i have learnt what needs to be learnt, the only way to fully learn is for it to happen


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I tried. I really did.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

sigh, i am listening, i thought it over, it will be a while til i breed them, and trust me, i always look up on it, i have to go anyway


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

Rhasputin said:


> I tried. I really did.


Sometimes its best to just let people make the mistakes. You can't force anyone to accept advise, all you can do is put it out there and hope for the best.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

quote="kittygirl991"]1. i have read up on this, vegetables, fruit, porridge and things that will be good for her and babies You need to read up more on this. Vegtables and fruit can actually cause problems and diarea if not feed properly. You are also missing the main nutritional supplement needed for the doe and bubs.
2.i doubt it
3. yes, i have looked deep into this Please explain this better. Most pet stores can't tell the difference. What has your research told you to look for?
4.no, i have never read about this You need to look into this. It is one of the reasons some people cull and can impact the health of the babies.
5. a house You need to have a much more specific answer to be ready. What type of housing? what will be in the housing?
6. dont all people that breed mice? No all people think about the risk they are taking. Modern medicine often makes it seem like there is no risk, which isn't true.
7. i dont know, i would say 5-6 You need a solid answer before starting.

Again, let the chip on your shoulder go and realize that you are talking with many of the top breeders in the world. They will have different advise than you may be getting locally. It is like the difference between talking to a top show dog breeder and a backyard puppy mill breeder. If you mother bred mice when she was your age, I doubt she had access to the best research based information. Just because someone does something and got lucky, doesn't mean that it is the healthiest thing to do. I highly suggest practicing some humility (very useful in many life situations) and also realize that as much research as you have done, you cannot know everything. People spend their entire lives studying mice. It is an insult to them to say that you have learned everything in a few months when they haven't been able to learn everything in decades. Keep you mind open, there is always more to learn. I'll be honest with you. You have offended and exaserbated many of the breeders on this site. If you want to continue asking questions here, you really need to start repairing your relationships with them. This may sound judgemental, but it is meant more as an opportunity for you to grow. Take some time to process it before you answer back. If you are wondering what my credentials are, I teach kids your age and currently run a gifted program. I have seen many kids of all types. I've had kids over the years that have been expelled and gone to jail all the way to kids fighting for the validictorian spot. You will most likely eventually get a job and these skills are very important to being successful in a career. Breeding mice is great, but some of the advise that you have been given here over the past two months or so goes beyond breeding and moves into the realm of life lessons. Best wishes, Jade

For others, here is the list of questions originally posted:
Things to think about:
1. What will you feed the doe while pregnant and while nursing?
2. Will you cull? If so, starting when and based on what criteria?
3. Can you tell the difference between a male and female newborn?
4. Do you know the feeding styles of both genders when born?
5. What will you house the doe and bubs in?
6. Are you willing to risk the doe dying as a result of being bred/pregnant?
7. How many does can you house in your current "main" tank/bin?
8. Do you have enough homes for all the mice that may be born, including a single home per male?

There are many more things you should know, but this is a start.
8.no, but most breeders i talk to or in pet shops, they house brothers together Most breeders in the U.S. are feeder breeders. That is the focus for pet stores. Very young mice may be able to be housed together cramed into a feeder bin. If one dies it may get eatten before the breeder even notices. If wounded, the pet store simply feeds it to a snake. They don't have to worry about the long term best care practices. You have come to a site that is advising you of best long term practices. Bucks from the same litter may get alone for a month or two after weaning, but that is only a "may" and is nearly guaranteed to end in fighting if left together longer. Even the local PetSmart seperates bucks in the store. You must look to why you may be getting what people here consider bad advise. You have a bit of an arrogant air to you. Try asking why advise is given instead of saying you already know everything.

many breeders have there own way of breeding[/quote]


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Since your mother bred mice, and this seems to be very important to you, perhaps you could ask her about her practices, and her results. How many mice did she lose? How many mice did she bury every year? Even a best-practices breeder loses a lot of mice in the course of a year. We're trying to save you and your mice an awful lot of pain and heartbreak. We're not trying to talk down to you. We're not trying to be mean. That said, I do hope you can weigh the advice of quality breeders against the advice of pet store owners and low-quality feed breeders. Mice eat insects and grains, naturally, not fruits and veggies. Milk-sopped bread is fine. A piece of peach isn't. A weaning mouse could easily die of dehydration when he gets and upset tummy from eating fruit. That's not what you want. You want happy, healthy, good-looking mice. Of course you do. We all do. You don't want to open the cage to find that one mouse was killed by the others, and they peeled the skin halfway back his body. Why would you? So don't take needless risks. To a largescale breeder, that sight would be terrible. For someone whose mice are her dear pets, it's unthinkable. But it happens. So please, be careful.


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## mouselover01 (Nov 1, 2011)

Chiming in here, kittygirl, you are partially correct and partially incorrect.

-- The first step in mouse breeding is to get your info.
(make sure it comes from a RELIABLE and ACCURATE source and not an OUTDATED source... This may mean your mother has very outdated information on proper husbandry and breeding of mice. Things change every year, and the right way 40 years ago, may not be the right way not).

(as far as information goes, find out what are actually good, healthy foods for mom when she has the litter and when she's pregnant, gestation, age of weaning, when and why to cull, basic genetic info, proper bedding, etc)

-- The second thing you do is get your supplies
(if you plan on breeding one mouse, you must have adequate housing for up to 12 babies. This includes bedding, 12 water bottles, 12 bowls, 12 hides/toys, food, 12 cages and space for 12 cages).

-- The third thing is choose your mice
(best way to choose mice in my opinion is by selecting a variety you want to work with, and picking a good breeder to buy from. That way, you can have good stock to start with, and you can have breeder support)

-- The forth thing you should do, is a quarantine period
(30 days no breeding until you know they are healthy. Keep away from any existing mice/rodents, etc).

-- The fifth thing is to introduce the female to the male
(introduce and leave them together for a set amount of time)

-- The sixth thing is to put the mom in a cage to have her babies.

There's a lot you should know, and do, prior to just picking up and breeding your mice.

I know you're just a little kid, but learning starts now. 

(this is by no means a full list)

Good luck!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

If the material presented is not enough to guide someone into having and keeping a mousie or two in an appropriate manner then I can't think of anything else anyone could possibly add.

Breeding is another matter, though, and that does require a certain amount of maturity as situations can arise that just are not easy, simple, or fun, and serious preparation needs to occur before one does this.

My impression is that this young person is not ready, in any sense of the word, for breeding.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I can't think of a better lot of information here, from several esteemed breeders. I don't understand this at all.

*Your opinions don't change facts.*

*Your opinions don't change facts.*

*Your opinions don't change facts.*

That's not the way life works, at all. You aren't ready to breed. It has nothing to do with age.

My sister bred guinea pigs when she was 12-14 and she knew EVERYTHING there was to know about it, or tried to. 
I do not get frustrated easily with people but you have the best information at your finger tips from breeders who have been working for decades, and you are being incredibly ignorant about it.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

( im on my wii now so cant answer all questions :/ will do that later on my computer )

i have decided not to breed so soon, i will look more into it, and at the moment i am talking to a experienced breeder from us, he said british males are much friendlier to being kept with other males than in us,


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

oh and i have bred rodents before and the babies were fine


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm glad you have found someone who says what you want to hear. Good luck, you will need it.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

how many times do i have to tell you? *i am listening* thats why i am breeding them later, when i have learnt more about it


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

I think it's all been said......
I don't see that any further good can come from adding anything to this thread. It won't be locked but I'd suggest letting it die now.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

yes you are right, i have taken all thats been said into consideration, and that is why im breeding when im smarter and understand more, thanks everyone


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