# Let's talk about hairless



## Lottiz

What are your thoughts about hairless mice? 
Are they healthy?
How to breed them? Is this a codominante gene, like hairless x normal= 100% fuzzies?
Is it possible to breed them with longhair or shorthair, Is it better to breed hairless to Texel or Astrex?
What about satin??

Thank you!


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## Jack Garcia

There are numerous kinds of hairless.

Homozygous Caracul (Ca/Ca) or Rex (Re/Re) paired with fuzzy (fz/fz) can make fully naked mice. A couple of my friends breed these. They are fully healthy in every way and can display pigment fully and lactate normally.

"True" hairless are hr/hr and exist in the fancy with only four or five people in the world that I know of. These mice are similar to hairless Syrian hamsters in that they're immunocompromised and get sick very easily and die younger than other hamsters. Females are unable to lactate and almost always eat their babies. If they don't eat them, they can't nurse them so they die. These mice are always pink. The only parts of them that have pigment are the eyes. I've met some of these mice and they're cute but I think they're too much trouble to breed.

There's also a variety called "nude" (nu/nu) which operates similarly to true hairless.

Then there's a type of dominant hairless (genecode unknown) which popped up in the past 10 years and keeps its pigment, but I've only heard of it existing in France. Maybe in England, too. I can't remember.

Breeding hairless to texel or angora will create mostly hairless mice who sometimes have a few stray hairs around. It's not sought after at all. One breeder in the US crossed all her true hairless with angora about four years ago and is still paying for it. Depending on the type of hairless you're breeding, I'd only outcross with standard coat.


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## Lottiz

WOWi had no idea there are so many different hairlesses... I'm picking up a buck on sunday but i don't know what to breed him with... I have no rex or fuzzie. 
Thank you, Jack! You are so kind and helpful *hug*


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## Jack Garcia

You're very welcome! It's odd to hear myself described that way. I know many people who'd disagree! :lol:

One way to tell the difference is that true hairless lacks pigment and whiskers. Nude mice usually also lack pigment and whiskers. Of course if the mouse is pink-eyed, he will lack skin pigment anyway. Caracul or Rex based fuzzy mice usually (not always) have whiskers (short, curly ones, but they're there). I don't know if the dominant kind of hairless has whiskers or not.


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## WillowDragon

Jack is ebil! hehehehe *kisses*

Though Jack may have some people who think less of him, I personally always hope he will answer my questions and comment on any mousie pics I post, because I can always rely on him for honesty.

W xx


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## Jack Garcia

Aww, thank you all. I'm blushing. 

Do let us know how getting the hairless mouse goes. For breeding, a male is the better bet anyway since for all practical purposes some types of hairless females can't reproduce. Ask the person who you're getting him from if the females usually give birth and nurse their own litters...that can give you a big clue even if they're not very familiar with the genetics.

BTW, I have seen some mice who were simply fuzzy (fz/fz) with no Rex or Caracul who were very close to hairless, but they still tended to retained a very thin layer of fuzz. When some people say "hairless" they might mean this.



WillowDragon said:


> Jack is ebil!


That's totally going in my signature. :lol:


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## Lottiz

Jack Garcia said:


> BTW, I have seen some mice who were simply fuzzy (fz/fz) with no Rex or Caracul who were very close to hairless, but they still tended to retained a very thin layer of fuzz. When some people say "hairless" they might mean this.


I think this is the sort of hairless I'm picking up at sunday. I can add pics of him on monday. When yo arre talking about rex, you don't mean asterex? I just got sh and learning all the time, thanks to you :gwavebw

I live in Sweden and we have a hand full of hairess mice here and we really need new lines, so if someone know of people breeding them and if they can help me bringing them to the big terraristica show in Hamm (Germany) in september, that would be very helpful for me. I know lots of people going to the show from England.
I've talked with my familiy about going to London for a miceshow this summer but to day I just know of the trip to Germany in september. hen in the next show in London? Or...I would need all dates for miceshows in London during the year :lol: . I want to bring more then hairless to sweden...self blue, be cream satin, rumpwhite in lilac, blue and black, blue burmese, extreme black and pearl (if it's possible). All short hair and maybe some Asterex. I need all help I can get from all of you :love1


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## Jack Garcia

Yes, Rex is short for (ast)rex. This kind of mouse: http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/SHA.html

When combined with fuzzy (fz), a mouse who is Re/Re fz/fz can be completely hairless. This is my personal favorite kind of hairless because it keeps its pigment and it can nurse its babies and is perfectly healthy.

Sometimes it's really easy to get hairless mice using this method. I've done it before in just 3 generations.


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## Lottiz

So if I have a hairless male (fz) and breed him with a astrex female i get...? but when I inbreed the siblings to eachother or back to the father I can get hairless?


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## Jack Garcia

fz/fz X Re/* = some rex babies (you can tell from their curly whiskers at 0-3 days) who carry fuzzy. All Rex babies would be Re/re Fz/fz. Keep some of those babies and breed them to each other. In that generation you will get some mice who are Re/re fz/fz and you will be able to tell them apart because they will be the most hairless.

I have pictures somewhere of a friend's mice who are this kind of hairless. I will see if I can find them.


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## Lottiz

Perfect! I love pics :drool !
I'm going for a show on sunday...have to look for a nice astrexlady for him :dance

What should I do without you :thx


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## Jack Garcia

This mouse was bred by a close friend of mine.



















It's Re/* fz/fz

Here are some Ca/* fz/fz mice I bred. Unfortunately I only have baby pictures (their hair thins out as they age):









(blue odd-eye Caracul fuzzy splashed)









(a litter of different genotypes and phenotypes. The one at 3:00 is Re/* fz/fz)

I don't breed caracul, rex, fuzzy, splashed, or odd-eyed anymore (too hard to conform to standard) but I think they make great pets.


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## Lottiz

-Oh, They are sooo cute!!!!

I had hairless rats once and they was from double rex pairings.


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