# Dead mother, half-weaned kittens.



## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I left my boyfriend in charge of the mice over the weekend, and went to the show in PA.
He apparently thought that a cage full of a dozen mice, only needed enough food to feed one mouse, and no water, I guess. -insert frustration here-

The mother was extremely emaciated when I got home, and the litter had just killed, and started eating one of their siblings. The next morning, the mother died, probably from exhaustion and dehydration, as she was nursing, and cleaning, but had no food.

Anyways, it's breaking my heart to see the little ones suffering. I feel like the only thing I can do at this point, it cull them, and put them out of their misery. There seems to be one of two mice, that are almost healthy looking, but the rest are just incredibly sad, it's like they've all turned into runts.

I figured I'd post here, and see if there was anyone who wanted to give them another chance at life. I think they would probably make it to adulthood with some intensive care, and really well balanced feedings. . . They would probably make good pets, but with their potential stunted growth, I wouldn't dare suggest anyone try to breed the females, even if they make it.

There are black selfs, black tans, and blacks carrying fox, possible foxes. All are carrying blue as well.
If anyone lives near-by, and wants to give it a shot, please let me know. I don't know why I'm so heartbroken by this litter, but for some reason it's just tugging on my heart strings to see these guys.

PLEASE, no comments like, "Just put them down, and get over it"
I plan on it, but it just makes me feel a whole lot better, to give them one more chance at survival.
Thanks.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

How old are the babies? If their eyes are open they should do well enough on solid food with a little modification. they get their teeth at about five days, so kibble moistened with mile or milk replacer would do well, as would dried bread. Cooked eggyolk and yoghurt would be OK.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm giving them all sorts of good foods. But there are just some that are very 'sad' looking. They were already a bit thin, from not being able to nurse properly from the mother, a bunch are really really stunted. They hardly look like mice at all. They look more like . . . Pygmy jerboas, honestly. :/


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

It actually really rare that mice will depreciate in such a way over the course of only 2 days, even without any water or food. It is likely they have some other issue.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Oh no!

Since they are literally starved, they're probably not going to make it.

Blacks cannot carry fox, by the way, since it is a combination of traits with different modes of inheritance (chinchilla and tan).


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

WNTMousery said:


> It actually really rare that mice will depreciate in such a way over the course of only 2 days, even without any water or food. It is likely they have some other issue.


I was wondering about that. I think it maybe have been a combination of bad timing (as far as when the mother died, and was dehydrated) and the fact that they've gone about a week now (Friday, until now) attempting to eat foods that their systems just weren't ready for. It's possible that there was something wrong with the mother before hand? And maybe they all haven't been getting nursed properly. UGH... I really wantes some blue carriers, this litter has been nothing but problems. It also, in the beginning, had the tiniest runt I've ever seen . . . Maybe it was just a problem with the mother. :/

Jack: I don't think I meant carrying fox. Actually, I have no idea what I meant, now that I re-read what I typed.
I'm pretty much subscribed to the fact that the majority needs to be put to sleep. It just, I think it settles my nerves a bit to know I at least put it out there, that if anyone wanted to give it a serious try, they could.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

In the few instances I've heard of where a nursing mother was starved or dehydrated, she ate her babies (even if they were older) before dying herself. This makes sense, evolutionarily: the mother spares herself first, because she has a chance at reproducing in the future, rather than the babies, who would likely die without her if she allowed herself to die first.

It's possible that they all are/were diseased in some way, though, and that the mother simply died due to confounding variables, leaving the already-sick babies to grow weaker and eventually die themselves. Nobody can say for sure.

There have been people who nursed two-week old mice to adulthood sans mother, but the resulting mice had varying degrees of immune problems, since the mother's milk helps build the immune system up. The only person I know personally (Barb) who raised weanling mice devoted literally all day of every day to sitting at home with three mice. That level of commitment is not something that most people are willing or able to commit to, I don't think. When it's evident that the mother is dead and there's no foster available, there's no shame in euthanizing all the babies immediately.


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

I hope if there was something wrong with the mother that you didn't inadvertently spread anything she had to all those folks at the get together last weekend by taking your mice. :?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I think it was just a combination of having to nurse, not being fed for three days or having water, and just plain 'ole tiring out. Another baby dropped today, so I went ahead and culled the majority of the litter. There are three that look perfectly fine. I don't think it's a disease or anything, because the babies look like they're all just extremely malnourished (minus the couple I left).

I mean, I know a mouse can get really bad really fast from dehydration. I think that's all it was, no need to scare anyone.


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