# Improving chinchilla mousies



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

This question came up on the Danish forum, and I had asked this question in response. Some one who has been breeding chinchilla mousies was not happy with the state of the line and wanted to know whaat would be a good outcross to improve typiness. I asked what would happen if they used a PEW as an outcross. I don't know if it was too stupid a question to deserve an answer or what, but it didn't get answered, and I wanna know!!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

wouldn't it depend on what colour the albino was masking?Not much use if it was a brindle or a broken for instance.Personally I would use a good agouti,failing that a fox or a tan.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

You don't want to use a fox or a tan if the chinchilla is Aw/Aw based, though. The best chinchillas I've seen (including Seawatch Stud's, one of whom's descendants I am lucky to have) are Aw/Aw and not tan-based.

A PEW is a really bad outcross as is any non-chinchilla c-locus dilute. PEW, by its very nature, is a dangerous outcross for any variety other than PEW because a PEW can be anything "underneath" the white fur (as you alluded to, Sarah), but especially so for C-locus dilutes such as chinchilla, beige, and siamese because the mouse may "look" chinchilla or beige (or whatever) and in fact have one "c" allele. This can takes years to properly remove. I'm actually writing an article about outcrosses for the ECMA that will be published soon. You should read it.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

My Tony Cooke says the best outcross for a chinchilla would be a black, blue or silver bred PEW 

Personally I would go for a silver bred one.

Willow xx


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

But most of the time (in the US at least) you don't know what's under the PEW.

I am lucky in that my PEWs are 100% true-breeding dove underneath and are proven as such for dozens of generations (the C- and P- loci are linked).


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

half the time in the uk you don't know either,things aren't the same as when Tonys book was written,many mice are of unknown/mongrel heritage.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Interesting discussion, guys! Thanks!


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

WillowDragon said:


> My Tony Cooke says the best outcross for a chinchilla would be a black, blue or silver bred PEW
> 
> Personally I would go for a silver bred one.
> 
> Willow xx


I wonder what a mouse who was Aw/Aw cch/cch d/d would look like? Would you even be able to tell it apart from one which was D/D on the D-locus?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm not really familiar with breeding chinchilla meeces, but I was wondering, I have a mouse that's c^ch c^ch and bred it to tan mousie would I get chinchilla mousies? Would I get 50/50 chinchillas in the F1 generation? I have a blue tan that's homozygous for blue.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

A blue tan _has to be_ homozygous for blue (or leaden). 

You won't get chinchilla mice unless the other parent is or carries chinchilla*. What you'll likely get is a litter full of agoutis who carry chinchilla.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I realized as I fell to sleep last night that I was way too tired when I posted that last bit. Breeding a tan to a chinchilla would likely ruin both the chinchillla and the tan for generations to come, unless the tan was leterozygous, and even then I'd get half tans in the FI.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Since you don't have Aw/Aw, any chinchilla you have must be heterozygous for tan (A/at). Otherwise, it would be silver agouti or black fox.

That's why chinchillas bred this way produce black fox and silver agouti in most litters, along with chinchilla (ie do not breed true).


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## dingbat (Jun 9, 2009)

The fin mouse site says that the ony good outcross for an AwAw chinchilla mouse is another chinchilla mouse. remember that the Cooke book is talking about a chinchill that has been bred from a Black fox and Agouti tan so does not breed true like the Aw chinchilla. Hope this helps. However if this discussion ever comes to a conclusive answer I would be very interested in the answer.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

The "conclusive answer" depends on how your chinchilla is made. Mousetress's would probably be A/at cch/cch, whereas yours (if they're show animals) would probably be Aw/Aw cch/cch.

The chinchillas on the continent are mostly (or entirely) A/at cch/cch, too. My good friend who lives in Germany and travels between Germany and the Netherlands for mouse events said he's never heard of anybody using Aw/*.


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