# Please can someone identify unknown 'tailrot'?



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Hello, I really hope some can advise me!

I had to cull a cage of 5 week old abyssinians today due to what can only be described as tailrot. Please see picture below:










Can anyone identify this nasty condition?!

Here's everything I know:
1) This (so far) has been contained to one cage of mice containing 2x adult does and 5x 5 week old kittens.
2) Their neighbouring cages (including a second cage of 2x adult does and 6x 5 week old kittens, also abyssinians) have normal tails.
3) I clean my cages out every three days, so they are not standing on particularly dirty bedding.
4) They are bedded on woodshavings and hay, always have been and so are all of my mice.
5) Nothing in the diet has changed, I'm still working through the exact same mix I made up about a month ago, and I don't feed treats. I do feed the kittens up with bread mash, porridge, EMP, etc, but all my kittens get these things.
5) The mice afflicted seemed otherwise healthy and were behaving normally.
6) Whatever it is, is _seems_ to be touch-contagious rather than airborn. The picture shows the worst case, but all of the other mice in the box had varying degrees of it. 
7) It's come on VERY quickly, within a couple of days at most.

I have kept mice and rats for 20 years and have never seen anything like this. *I would appreciate it if people don't speculate and only reply if they KNOW what this is.* I hope no-one takes this the wrong way (you know I love everyone on here  ) but I am worried enough already and a whole list of things it _might_ be will just worry me more. Hope you all understand.

I'm just praying it doesn't wipe out my doves 

Sarah xxx


----------



## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh lord, I have never seen anything like that before! I will definately have a look around and see if I can find out anything!

If you feel the need, my mousery is always open to house some of your doves.

W xx


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks sweetie I really appreciate the offer, but if it is horribly contagious I can't risk spreading it and I know what I've got to do  

Sarah xxx


----------



## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I've sent you a PM.


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Geez..that is really ugly and awful..it doesn't look anyting like tail problems my meeces have had. Cold tissue disease comes on very slowly and usually stops with treatment of antibiotics and anti-mange combined. I had to amputate half a tail on my best tri doe a couple of weeks ago, but with her, it think was a scratch that she worried at, and the tail was quite quite dry pup to point at which I clipped it. She barely bled at all and didn't seem to feel any pain. And it made no difference to me or her to lose that part of her tail, as I don't show.

Could it be a fungal infection? Or maybe a problem with the changes in epithelial tissue. I only ask that becasue I have noticed a tendency to skin and eye problems in the few curlies that have shown up randomly in my mousery. What about ringworm, with limited area on the tail, it might not present the same as on other skin areas.

Don't mean to overwhelm you with what might be pointless advice, I just hate seeing anyone going through something lkie this. I hope you can get some sort of postmortem, if only saving a sample of tissue until you can get a good look at it. I keep telling my self that I need to get a basic dissection set-up, and a microscope, so I can so this sort of thing. I always want to know more!

Scary stuff: *hug*

*edit* Am I just imagining that it is affecting the area around the anus and the soles of the rear feet? Godz, I hope it's not a virus....


----------



## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm thinking fungal infection too


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> Am I just imagining that it is affecting the area around the anus and the soles of the rear feet?


Yes you are imagining it, the rest of the mouse was fine. My phone doesn't take particularly good pictures, unfortunately.

I know of a LOT of things it_ could _be, but I want to know what it is and (more to the point) whether my doves are in danger. I will be taking a tissue sample to the vet, but by the time the results come back it could have spread.

Sarah xxx


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I have a friend who went to vet school and who keeps rats. Do you mind if I pass this message and photo along to her?


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Yes please Jack, I'd really appreciate that 

Sarah xxx


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Yeah, the spotted appearance yells 'fungus', or maybe retrovirus. I pray that it's not a retrovirus.


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't want to sound mean and I know you're only trying to help but, as I asked in my original post, please stop speculating  I know it _could_ be fungal, or a virus, or a ton of other things. I have already spent hours going through my old notes from years back, reading mouse and rat care books, and trawling the internet. I know of loads of things it could be, but this doesn't help me and I am worried enough.

Sarah xxx


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

She got back to me rather quickly and said she's never seen it before. I'm really sorry. I hope things work out.

I'm calling another friend of mine with many years of experience to see if she has any idea.


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Thank you Jack 

I had a quick look on my way out to work this morning and there don't seem to be any new cases.

Something I forgot to mention in my original list was that I haven't handled mice (or any other animals) other than my own for at least a couple of weeks, and the only new stock I have is two black bucks that I picked up on the 1st of May. These two guys are fine (at the moment).

Sarah xxx


----------



## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I had a case that looked similar to this a while ago. I have no idea what caused it but I do know how I fixed it. It was nowhere near as bad as the photo you have posted, but applying Johnson's tea tree cream for small animals to the tail daily did the trick and it didn't spread. Pity you hadn't discovered this yesterday or you could have taken my pot home with you when you were here! It's cheap to buy though, I'm sure it was less than £4 when I last bought some.


----------



## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

This is the stuff: http://www.trustpet.co.uk/johnsons-small-animal-tea-tree-skin-cream-40g-x-6-p4743


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I have some of that cream! Do you think I should do the tails of all of my mice just in case?

Sarah xxx


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

If it's not too much hassle, I would apply it to everybody, starting with the unaffected ones, then working your way to the sick ones. That's what I did when I had ringworm (which is a fungus and is affected by tea tree oil as well).


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Doesn't matter how much hassle it is. Right now I do feel fortunate that I have a small stud though!

Sarah xxx


----------



## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I only did the affected mouse; none of the others had it and never developed it. Maybe just do the affected cage?


----------



## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

I had this in some blacks early last year, only in two of them and the rest of the mice they were with, including their litters, didn't get it. In the end i culled the affected mice and haven't seen it since.


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I culled everyone in the affected cage last night. They weren't very good mice (even for the abyssinians) and certainly not worth keeping around to spread horrible things to my show mice. I can be quite ruthless like that 

Well, hopefully it'll be the last of it then! I couldn't sleep last night, I was terrified I was going to come down in the morning to a stud full of mice with rotted tails!

Thanks everyone for your help.

Sarah xxx


----------



## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

Hopefully that will be the end of it! Like i said, i've never seen it again. No idea what it was - looked flipin manky though! Yuk!


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I was horrified when I saw it, it looked much worse than it does in the picture! The tail was all swollen and inflamed in places, and down to the bone in other places where flesh had come off. I have never seen anything like it!

Sarah xxx


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I also have a small stud (well, under 70 mice, some folks I know have many, many more) so I don't know how people with zillions of mice do it because it took me around two hours every day to medicate everybody.

I really hope that within a week or so's time you can report that all is well. I _hate_ it when stuff like this happens!


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I suppose people with a zillion mice have enough excess stock that they could cull 80% of it without really worrying, so probably ably deal with most problems that way. I just can't afford to do that. I usually have around 60. Sometimes numbers will bulge because I need to run a lot of mice on to choose the few best ones, or sometimes I'll go down to about 40 because I've culled a load of useless/poor stock.

I will definitely keep you posted!

Sarah xxx


----------



## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

As I have had zillions of mice and suffered many a disaster with them I can add one more possibility to the mite/fungus scenario.Mouse inflicted mutilation.I have had tail chewers occur in the same way as I have had whisker chewers.It took a few years of treating for fungus and mites for the penny to drop as the cases are very few and far between.If you get a whole cage affected it might be worth looking to see if just one mouse has an untouched tail.The first indications are round holes down to the bone giving the impression that something has burrowed out of the flesh.Bit gruesome but easily fixed.....


----------



## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Hi, I'm sorry I cannot offer advice as to the nature of your mousies "tail problem" but I did have experience a mouse with a similar(although not so severe) problem and I would like to let you know of a treatment that I used with success. Please though,Firstly, this product is unlicenced for use in mice. Also, I would like to state that I was given this treatment by the Vet as a last resort for a mouse with severe itching in and around the ear and NOT for the mouse with the tail blisters. It did not help my mouse with the ear problem, It did however heal and cure the mouse with the tail blisters.

The Vet gave me - "Surolan" by Janssen animal health, 15ml Ear drops and Cutaneous Suspension, an Ear and Skin treatment for Cats and Dogs, It is for Bacterial, Fungal and Ear mite infections but also provides anti-inflammatory and anti-pruritic activiy.

For the mouse with the Sore tail I used to put a couple of drops in an egg cup and I found the easiest and most effective way to apply it was to paint it on with a small soft artists size paint brush(just a cheap one) I found this was softer on sore skin than cotton buds which can be quite hard and the mouse didn't put up such a fight!
At first I "painted" her tail so it was just covered, not saturated, twice a day and then as things improved I went to once a day and then when she was nearly clear of any signs of sores I just did it a couple of times a week for two weeks. All told it took about 1 month to clear completely.

I tried this on my mouse as it came up over the week-end and she was obviously very sore and distressed and I just felt I needed to give something a go.The good thing about Surolan seemed to be the fact that It covered a lot of bases being anti fungal , anti bacterial,for mite but also the steroid in it seemed to make the mouse comfortable and relieve the pain/itching(and it wasn't expensive!)
It may not be appropriate for your mice and obviously you would need to speak with your vet about it but I 'm just hoping it may be a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm sorry I can't give you any answers as to what the problem may be, I never found out with my mouse as Surolan cured it and so I never needed to take her to the Vet.
I hope this helps and I shall be keeping everything crossed for you and your Mousies. It's awful when you don't know what's best to do and I 'm feeling for you.Hugs to you and your mousies.xx


----------



## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

[quote="The Boggit keeper"

The Vet gave me - "Surolan" by Janssen animal health, 15ml Ear drops and Cutaneous Suspension, an Ear and Skin treatment for Cats and Dogs, It is for Bacterial, Fungal and Ear mite infections but also provides anti-inflammatory and anti-pruritic activiy.

[/quote]

that's interesting info.I use a product called aurizon for my dogs ears that sounds as if it's the same product but different brand.£13 a bottle and after years and years of problem ears it was like the magic fairy had visited.Again prescription only although I regularly do a search on the internet to find a European supplier.I shall add Surolan to my searches .


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Acetic acid,otherwise known as vinegar does a fair job on ear crud all by itself, and is a good adjunct therapy for any skin or ear problem. Used when first noticed, of course, works best.

I had a hard time sleeping last night myself. I spent awhile brushing up on my own familiarity with mouse diseases.

I've used Acetasol on ear crud; it's prescription, combining vinegar and cortisone, on advanced ear crud, and that stuff is fab. It's the sort of thing I keep i in my fridge for myself, don't need very often, and I get a new one when it's near expiry, and transfer the old one to the fridge in the mousery. And, yes, I asked a vet, who said it was OK.


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

No new cases yet...

Sarah xxx


----------



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Wonderful! I was wondering about how they were doing, last night...


----------



## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

Fingers crossed it stays that way SarahY! Have you had any luck finding out exactly what it is that has caused it?


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Well, the stud is still healthy - no new cases. Just that one random cage of mice. I still don't know what it was, but I'm very grateful it hasn't reared it's head (or tail!) again 

Sarah xxx


----------

