# Varieties needing more breeders?



## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

Are there any varieties that need more breeders? Do the popularity of varieties come and go?
And are there any varieties that have been completely lost to the mouse fancy?


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

This is a great question and one that really interests me. I love finding out about the history of the varieties - how long they've been around, where they came from, who is working on what and the progress that is being made (or not).

Older books are a great source of information but older books are quite hard (and usually very expensive) to come by. For a more recent view, though, the NMC News each month is a great way to find out what is currently "popular" and being worked on and by who, since it shows you the show results and whatnot. At the beginning of the year, you also get the new year book, which is also great for looking back at the past years winners.

I'm certainly not the most experienced or knowledgeable (Far from it LOL) and someone like Cait would probably have much more of an answer to give you. And I'm sure any one of the judges could give you a good idea of the more popularly shown varieties that need work done on them, as they'll see the faults and changes more than some of us.

Some very obviously need a bit of a boost though. The ones with provisional standards will always benefit from people getting involved. Lilacs, Reds.. there are quite a few varieties that are low on numbers for various reasons. Lines of any variety can be lost very quickly, a spell of ill health or the gene pool becoming too "tight" etc. Many varieties have had to be resurrected in the past, some don't even have the same genetic make up as the originals did.

I don't have enough knowledge or time within the NMC to say specifically why certain varieties are lost entirely or why sometimes they just seem to be hugely unpopular. I certainly think there would be advantages of a "register" or sorts that allowed people to register the fact they are working on a certain line, trying to resurrect something, things like that. I've found people are often working away hard on varieties that they aren't actively showing, so just reading the News and Year Book doesn't always give you the answers you are looking for. It would highlight what was in real danger of becoming lost and allow people to take up a few boxes in their mouseries to keep them alive even if not for showing. BUT that is what I think and it's not something that would work well in the long run. Lot's of people work away on things privately and would be telling people about it if they wanted folk to know. Some don't like advertising what they are doing for safety reasons - it's not unknown for stock to be stolen or destroyed. Some work away on things for a long time before they are happy to show and don't want the pressure of shows hanging over them until they feel the mice are ready.. always lot's of things to consider about publicly saying what your up to in your mousery.

I hope someone with more knowledge and time in the NMC can come along with a good post, mine is mainly waffle lol


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

There are lots of reds right now! No lilacs though, probably because they are fugly! :lol: Varieties like lilacs suffer in popularity because they are unbelievably difficult to get right and, even when they are right, they have very strong competition in the self section with the whites, chams, etc.

Varieties wax and wane, depending on many things. There is a definite trend for varieties to spike in popularity, only to be overtaken by the next hot thing. An exhibitor regularly winning with something will help that variety's popularity no end. On the other end of spectrum are people like SarahC; very, very skilled breeders who take up varieties almost non-existant or of a very poor standard and turn them into gold.

But really, ALL varieties need more breeders/exhibitors! Even the most popular varieties have only a handful of breeders, because although the NMC comprises over 120 members, only thirty or so are regularly seen at shows.

To my knowledge, with the exception of the varitint waddler (which we don't want anyway!) the mouse fancy hasn't lost any genes permanently. For example, there aren't any lilacs, but the genes to make them are plentiful. Even a variety in the hands of a single breeder who suffers a catastrophe within their mice could still be started again with the ingredients.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

One variety that was lost to the fancy was variegated; a fancier went and got the gene from a lab to get it back into the fancy. There don't seem to be (m)any white bellied agouti mice in the UK fancy now either.


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

Oh hey now, SarahY! Lilacs aren't THAT fugly.. mostly! 

I think a lot of it also is dependant on what a new member can get in terms of starting stock. The more popular ones at the time will have more (and better) stock available to them. Also, starter confidence! I'm picking up a couple of varieties soon that I am TERRIFIED of ruining. I've had horrible beginners luck in my first year so the thought of picking up two not so widely spread varieties is really very daunting. I don't want to let people (or the variety) down. Whereas people with more experienced, a better eye etc can pick up new varieties at any time and be reasonably confident that they can do something with them.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

when I started there were a good few people breeding foxes but then it went down at one point to where I was the only one showing them and no one was showing chinchilla, I was asked for some by another breeder once to preserve the cch gene at that point. to but more people have shown interest in them again so id say there going to be making a comeback.
Siamese was very hard to find but now much easier to get a hold of.

some people just go with what's winning or what is new, some stick with it some move on.


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

Onyx said:


> This is a great question and one that really interests me. I love finding out about the history of the varieties - how long they've been around, where they came from, who is working on what and the progress that is being made (or not).
> 
> Older books are a great source of information but older books are quite hard (and usually very expensive) to come by. For a more recent view, though, the NMC News each month is a great way to find out what is currently "popular" and being worked on and by who, since it shows you the show results and whatnot. At the beginning of the year, you also get the new year book, which is also great for looking back at the past years winners.
> 
> ...


No not waffle  A very good answer I think


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

SarahY said:


> There are lots of reds right now! No lilacs though, probably because they are fugly! :lol: Varieties like lilacs suffer in popularity because they are unbelievably difficult to get right and, even when they are right, they have very strong competition in the self section with the whites, chams, etc.
> 
> Varieties wax and wane, depending on many things. There is a definite trend for varieties to spike in popularity, only to be overtaken by the next hot thing. An exhibitor regularly winning with something will help that variety's popularity no end. On the other end of spectrum are people like SarahC; very, very skilled breeders who take up varieties almost non-existant or of a very poor standard and turn them into gold.
> 
> ...


Very interesting post thankyou for replying Sarah,

" But really, ALL varieties need more breeders/exhibitors! Even the most popular varieties have only a handful of breeders, because although the NMC comprises over 120 members, only thirty or so are regularly seen at shows."

This was really interesting to me as well, thats an awful lot of breeders not showing, do you know why so many people don't show?


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

Onyx said:


> Oh hey now, SarahY! Lilacs aren't THAT fugly.. mostly!
> 
> I think a lot of it also is dependant on what a new member can get in terms of starting stock. The more popular ones at the time will have more (and better) stock available to them. Also, starter confidence! I'm picking up a couple of varieties soon that I am TERRIFIED of ruining. I've had horrible beginners luck in my first year so the thought of picking up two not so widely spread varieties is really very daunting. I don't want to let people (or the variety) down. Whereas people with more experienced, a better eye etc can pick up new varieties at any time and be reasonably confident that they can do something with them.


Thats a really good point about getting starting stock!


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

Cait said:


> One variety that was lost to the fancy was variegated; a fancier went and got the gene from a lab to get it back into the fancy. There don't seem to be (m)any white bellied agouti mice in the UK fancy now either.


O really! I saw variegated at the show I went to I really liked them, Really silly question now, but is a white bellied agouti , just what it says an agouti with a white belly?


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

Onyx said:


> Oh hey now, SarahY! Lilacs aren't THAT fugly.. mostly!
> 
> I think a lot of it also is dependant on what a new member can get in terms of starting stock. The more popular ones at the time will have more (and better) stock available to them. Also, starter confidence! I'm picking up a couple of varieties soon that I am TERRIFIED of ruining. I've had horrible beginners luck in my first year so the thought of picking up two not so widely spread varieties is really very daunting. I don't want to let people (or the variety) down. Whereas people with more experienced, a better eye etc can pick up new varieties at any time and be reasonably confident that they can do something with them.


I will be the same I think, worrying about getting things right


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

PPVallhunds said:


> when I started there were a good few people breeding foxes but then it went down at one point to where I was the only one showing them and no one was showing chinchilla, I was asked for some by another breeder once to preserve the cch gene at that point. to but more people have shown interest in them again so id say there going to be making a comeback.
> Siamese was very hard to find but now much easier to get a hold of.
> 
> some people just go with what's winning or what is new, some stick with it some move on.


I really like the look of the foxes but have only seen them in pics so far, Thats really interesting as well that some people stick with what they have while others move on to different varieties


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes, agouti on top with a white belly - which lets you make true breeding chinchilla mice. There's more info on Finnmouse at http://hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/?pg=5&sub=3&ala=3


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

Cait said:


> Yes, agouti on top with a white belly - which lets you make true breeding chinchilla mice. There's more info on Finnmouse at http://hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/?pg=5&sub=3&ala=3


Thankyou Cait , very good page, I've book marked it so hopefully it will sink in if I read it a few more times !  :lol:


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## skeallzy (Jun 10, 2014)

*sigh* I've been trying to get ahold of white-bellied agouti in the US and I've had a heck of a time trying to find somebody with the gene -.-'


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

Really? That's odd. A wild accidently bred with two females who escaped and out of 15 baby's they were All white bellied agoutis


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## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

I got a second place at the weekend with a lilac satin


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

woop woop  well done  any pics? x


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## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

Daniel took lots of pics will have to ask him


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## firstmice (Sep 18, 2013)

andypandy29us said:


> Daniel took lots of pics will have to ask him


I don't know Daniel  x


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