# Taxidermy (Split from "Why do you breed?")



## MoonfallTheFox

I've never had any of those problems. One adult mouse smelled a bit "sweet", kind of like raw chicken when you thaw it, but that's the worst I've had and since I've never thawed an adult before or since, it is probably normal. I used him for taxidermy and he was in great shape, all of his fur intact, skull intact, etc. Not a thing wrong. He skinned out well except for the tail, which I managed to break, ruining the otherwise perfect pelt. Eyes were normal and solid, ears perked, etc. :/ Looked like a totally healthy mouse to me.


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## SarahC

MoonfallTheFox said:


> . I used him for taxidermy and he was in great shape, all of his fur intact, skull intact, etc. Not a thing wrong. He skinned out well except for the tail, which I managed to break, ruining the otherwise .


Any pics,I rather like the macabre.


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## SarahY

Whilst this discussion is very interesting,it is perhaps moving into the realms of best being discussed in the culling forum


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## MoonfallTheFox

The mount turned out funny. LOL. I don't have pictures of it, but it looks very surprised/confused. I managed to skin his testicles, too, so there's those.

I'm planning on doing a fuzzy soon, since I have a super georgous one who's in epic condition and -adorable-, and I did a pinkie. Mount of it here-

http://onedaylefttolive.deviantart.com/ ... 4#/d46spq8

And, sorry, I shall go visit there. Or do you need to have permission to acess it?


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## SarahC

yes,there's a link to click to join.Not everyone wants to see the content,it's exceptionally rare that I ever look within.Thanks for the pic,strange,fascinating and downright odd :scool


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## kittygirl991

-shiver- eww!! i would hate that! a poor dead baby mouse, skinned and mounted? ( no offense ) thats a bit...ew... i would hate to do that :shock:


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## Rhasputin

As a taxidermist, I am baffled by how you skinned a pinky mouse, lol


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## Fraction

kittygirl991 said:


> -shiver- eww!! i would hate that! a poor dead baby mouse, skinned and mounted? ( no offense ) thats a bit...ew... i would hate to do that :shock:


The mouse is dead before it's skinned and mounted. It's just a corpse at that point.


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## Frizzle

Looked at your link, that's really cool! You have to paint fish too, they don't hold their color either.


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## kittygirl991

it dont matter if it was dead! its still...weird... i would hate being a texidermist... poor creatures, im not saying that mouse was killed for the purpose of being _skinned_ and _mounted_ but others are, and plus, she said she has a fuzzy right now that is perfect? and realy pretty? WHY KILL IT THEN?! it shocks me is all, ive never met anyone who breeds animals and kills the best cutest ones and kills them, skins them, and mounts them


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## MoonfallTheFox

The pinkie was meant for snake food and very dead when I got her. The fuzzy is also dead, and I bought it frozen, in a box. Out of the three, this one isn't broken at all and it is very sweet looking. I'm very attached to it, and I don't want to feed it to my snake.

The pinkie was really, really fun to do. It wasn't super tough, IMO, and I enjoyed it.  I used super glue to close the belly incision.


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## Frizzle

I like taxidermy, next year the ppl I'm going to be living with have already decided we're gonna try it as a group project. Its gonna be so much fun!!


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## kittygirl991

?! seriously? attached to a dead baby? and you had * fun* doing that? how can you have fun doing something like that!


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## SarahY

Kittygirl, please respect other's opinions even though they differ from your own


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## Shadowrunner

I think your not seeing it the way someone doing the taxidermy might be.
I have plenty of taxidermy babies and adults. 
It gives them a way of being immortal.
I think I'd rather have a forever baby like this then have that same baby turn into...compost.
It's also helpful to know the anatomy of a mouse in case something goes wrong in your breeders.
How else are you going to be able to identify cancer or something as the cause of death in other mice? You need to know what normal looks like to identify abnormal.
She can't feel any pain, and it is a challenge. 
It makes you love the baby you worked so hard to keep in a state like that.
It's a form of sympathy really. (at least for me)

She was bred for snake food and wound up being loved. Is that really so bad? ^ ,^

Hopefully that made sense.


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## kittygirl991

erm... i did say no offense btw, im just stating how i feel.

and shadowrunner... it made it worse... a way of being immortal? being immortal is *living* forever, not being a corpse that never rots


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## Viry

kittygirl991 said:


> ?! seriously? attached to a dead baby? and you had * fun* doing that? how can you have fun doing something like that!


There's no "no offence" there.



kittygirl991 said:


> erm... i did say no offense btw, im just stating how i feel.
> 
> and shadowrunner... it made it worse... a way of being immortal? being immortal is *living* forever, not being a corpse that never rots


I know you don't mean anything bad by your post and your feelings are your feelings, but you asked how someone could have fun doing that, and you got an explanation. Even if that explanation may seem worse for you, I think maybe you should agree to disagree here.


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## MoonfallTheFox

Yes, I am attached to it. I get attached to -all- of the dead babies, because I feel horrible that they are dead, and they look so sweet, like they are sleeping. This particular one has no broken limbs/tail, and it is hunched over, with the tail all curled around it, just like a sleepy baby. It has the softest looking peach fuzz and a very innocent, harmless little face.

I really want to do one with little angel wings.

I love taxidermy. I love to skin/mount animals. I learn more from that than I could from anything else, and there's a strange sort of beauty in the inner working of a body. I know I was in awe when I skinned the pinkie, it was so TINY, the ribs were so small, everything was just miniature! I couldn't believe something that size was once alive.

I don't do taxidermy because I'm a sick animal hating freak. I love animals, and I think they are incredibly beautiful. It's a horrible waste to destroy animals and let them ROT, with the exception of those needed to be fed to something else living. I even saved my little rescue sparrow, and intend to try to mount her someday soon. (I am holding off, because looking at her makes me cry, I loved her very much and worked hard to save her, only to have her succumb overnight to a respiritory illness.) Every animal I mount has value and meaning, my soft mount foxes spend a lot of time being cuddled, my little pinkie mouse, as you can see, has a little "bed", and I even preserved my best friend, Shadow, so he would never have to go away from me. (he was a bird. And I didn't mount him, I used heat to "mummify" him.)

Being mounted preserves that animal's beauty forever, so others can enjoy it. It will not just dissapear and be forgotten. You don't need to agree with me, but the animals who are taxidermied, in my eyes, live forever. They don't ever stop teaching, they are never forgotten, and they will not be tossed aside, but remembered and loved for the beautiful things that they are.


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## Frizzle

Idk if its popular overseas, but it was a hugely funny thing over here. : ) Enjoy!


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## MoonfallTheFox

Too bad, wish he would do pets. I want to get my little rat, Romeo, mounted when he dies, but I won't do it myself because I'm not skilled enough and he is far to precious to risk messing up on.

That was a great ad though!<3


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## PPVallhunds

I couldnt imagin doing a pinkie! i find it dificult enough doing bigger things lol. Just starting out so some ended up in the bin as i did such a bad job, got a mouse pelt, working on a guinea pig but stopped for now as dotn have time, and got a bird, snake and hedghog waiting. I find feet the hardest.
I couldnt do one of my house pets, they are all cremated and i keep there ases, i waite for something to die off at work.


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## tinyhartmouseries

I do taxidermy. I limit myself to what I find in good condition, such as a bird that had just hit a window. Birds are also extremely hard to do because their skin is half or so of the thickness of tissue paper.
Moonfall, I would love to buy a baby mouse with wings from you, name the price and do you ship, lol. 
I find it hard to do my own deceased animals because I do still love them each as individuals and it is emotionally trying for me. However, I do get very excited when I find an animal. It's too much of a challenge to let go. I'd like to start putting them in tiny clothes and etc as I do also love to sew!


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## Rhasputin

I have a taxidermied agouti mouse with finch wings for sale if anyone is interested.


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## SarahC

Rhasputin said:


> I have a taxidermied agouti mouse with finch wings for sale if anyone is interested.


do you have a picture?


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## MoonfallTheFox

I'm not skilled enough to consider selling yet :3 That pinkie looks a bit like a sausage, IMO.

You could give it a shot though, I bet you could do a better job than me, if you've had more practice.

If I do put wings on one, depending on the size of the mouse and what is on hand I will probably just use chicken feathers. I have 11 of them, and I can go out and yank a feather or two without them getting TOO pissy.


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## PPVallhunds

tinyhartmouseries said:


> I'd like to start putting them in tiny clothes and etc as I do also love to sew!


I had planed to put a hoody with the college logo on a chinhilla as she died from being attacked by the other chins and her back was cut up but i sorted out the freezer for someone on another forum who posted they were looking for dead animals for taxidermy and i forgot to put the bag back in the freezer with the chin in, it was sat out in the room from friday night untill the staff came in on monday morning  so it got chucked out.

There is a guy at my local game fair who does squriels and stoats ect and he dresses them up, one has a gun and dressed like a farmer, one is pulling its fur apart to reveil a super man shirt, a group playing pool on a mini pool table and one reading a news paper.


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## Rhasputin

SarahC said:


> Rhasputin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a taxidermied agouti mouse with finch wings for sale if anyone is interested.
> 
> 
> 
> do you have a picture?
Click to expand...

I guess I'll be posting one now. 
I've been meaning to sell it but just didn't have the right audience. I would have never thought to offer it to other mouse people. :lol:

It seems so obvious now!


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## kittygirl991

erm... well... tbh i dont like taxidermy, it OK if the animal died of natural causes instead of being killed for the purpose of being stuffed, then its wasted its mothers effor being born not to live on a full natural wonderful life.


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## MoonfallTheFox

The animals used are (at least here) culls, it sounds like, and mine were destined to be dinner for snakes. That is, with the exception of the foxes, which were destined to be sliced up as scrap fur or added to a coat.


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## Shadowrunner

She looks adorable moonfall.
typical artist doubting yourself. lol.
I plan to turn Rydag (my wolfdog) into a rug after he dies. That dog was 800$. No way I'm burying that much money and effort lol.

The problem is, I don't know how to reliably cure large skins. I'm practicing on mice from the store, and the ones I cull.

You could do something like downy feathers or wood (like from wooden roses) for wings.
They might have something you can use in a craft store. The aisle for doll house furniture might be especially helpful.


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## hlforumhl

How do you even learn how to be a taxidermest? I have sometimes found dead animals in my yard and around my neighborhood, and they are simply beautiful...and I have sometimes wondered about how to preserve that beauty for educational purposes...


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## MoonfallTheFox

I think downy feathers would work and I have chickens of every color and texture out there- silkies, laced, frizzled, etc. Rooster feathers and hen feathers, white, black, multi coloured, blue- whatever I could fathom is there somewhere.

I wouldn't suggest you home tanning him, I'd send him to a professional if I were you. Moscow Hide And Fur is really reliable and does amazing garment tans. My uncle gets his stuff tanned there.


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## tinyhartmouseries

hl,
I used a few internet tutorials to learn how to start, and ordered a magazine called WASCO for my supplies. Tanning stuff is fairly inexpensive and you can use rubbing alcohol and borax on the smaller things. It's basically experience...your first skin may not be good enough to mount but you keep trying...go slowly as possible!


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## PPVallhunds

I started the same as tinyhartmouseries, looked online to see how its done (youtube had a few videos) and tryed it out, i found a place in wales that does taxidermy suppls so ordered a few bits, got to order some more stuff when i start up again as ive been using sizzors and a kitchin knife, so got to get in some scalpels


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## Rhasputin

Shadowrunner said:


> She looks adorable moonfall.
> typical artist doubting yourself. lol.
> I plan to turn Rydag (my wolfdog) into a rug after he dies. That dog was 800$. No way I'm burying that much money and effort lol.


Once he's a rug, he'll be a $1600 dog. :lol:


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## kittygirl991

-shudder- yeah im gonna leave this forum post now... its too weird and sad and...-shiver- bye


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## MoonfallTheFox

hl, if you decide to pick things up in the neighborhood make sure to check the laws. Also, it has to be -really- fresh.

I suggest starting with small animals, because they can be preserved with borax very easily, and there isn't exactly a shortage of them. I get mice from the pet shop freezers.


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## SarahC

I find it fascinating and if I ever had time for another hobby this would be it :thumbuo


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## Shadowrunner

16,000$ or not I love this dog's fur xD
I would never be able to handle six of them so I can't and wont breed him.
*Eyes him* "you always look best in winter" lol.
We seem to have a tiny bit of trolling >__> just the tiniest bit.
Taxidermy is a little appreciated art.
I don't understand why it grosses some people out. It's perfectly fine to go to a museum and look at exhibits. What do people think animals do it to themselves? 

I find it fascinating because I'm obsessed with anthropology. It's neat to learn something our ancestors knew how to do from a early age ^ ^.


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## kittygirl991

its not ok looking in museum, i dont like that either and plus its cuz well in the museum... there not babies, or killed for the purpose, there normaly very old


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## Rhasputin

kittygirl991 said:


> its cuz well in the museum... there not babies, or killed for the purpose, there normaly very old


None of that is true. There are babies, there are juveniles, there are adults, and many were killed just for preservation.


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## kittygirl991

hmm..... not where i come from... i just hate taxidermy! its awful to animals and brain!


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## SarahC

kittygirl991 said:


> hmm..... not where i come from... i just hate taxidermy! its awful to animals and brain!


Well it's perfectly legal and no one here is killing their animals for that specific purpose.Anyone been to see this chaps exhibitions.Fab and our kids thought so to,we went during a mouse show.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... OZyKkwVdYA


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## tinyhartmouseries

Kittygirl, I thought you were leaving this post.


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## Rhasputin

kittygirl991 said:


> hmm..... not where i come from...


Yes. Where you come from. In fact, where you come from, you're allowed to kill more animals than 'where i come from'.


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## SarahY

Kittygirl, if you're not interested/disgusted in this thread then please just don't post on it. Please respect the opinions of those who _are_ interested and who are trying to discuss the subject. Thank you


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## PPVallhunds

kittygirl991 said:


> hmm..... not where i come from... i just hate taxidermy! its awful to animals and brain!


Yes where you come from, where do you think the stuffed lions, bears, tigers ect in the UK came from, most were shot by hunters to be stuffed and mounted as trophys then later donated to the mesuesums. Most of the ones in mesuesems are very old and from when hunting for sport was widly excepted and popular.

Just because you dont like something doesnt make it wrong (Some people think keeping animals is wrong but we are not about to get rid of ours, are you?), I dont agree with killing animals just for their fur but if they are killed for food, population controle, or die naturaly then why not use the fur instead of letting it go to waste, the animal doesnt care as its allready dead. No one hear has said they kill animals for the fur, so far everyone has said they use allready dead animals. If you dont like taxidermy thats fine but dont try to tell others they are wrong to like it, just ignore the post if you feel that strongley.


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## Shadowrunner

I personally find the furs more reliable than photos when you go back to look at your lines too.
Breeding for blues sometimes the photos make a perfect blue look mealy.
If you pull the skin out of the greatx5 grand doe..you can easily see she was perfectly even in color. If you trace the lines forward you can see where if anything did go wrong. A lot of the times a camera wont show details or be clear.

A lot of people near me think my wolf is abhorrent, but I love him. There is nothing wring with him and he is like putty when treated with respect. It's a matter of perspective. the base of current medical knowledge is here today because of the people who hunted and skinned their native animals. They noticed similarities and learned from that. There is a method to the madness you know ;D


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## Fraction

PPVallhunds said:


> Just because you dont like something doesnt make it wrong (Some people think keeping animals is wrong but we are not about to get rid of ours, are you?), I dont agree with killing animals just for their fur but if they are killed for food, population controle, or die naturaly then why not use the fur instead of letting it go to waste, the animal doesnt care as its allready dead. No one hear has said they kill animals for the fur, so far everyone has said they use allready dead animals. If you dont like taxidermy thats fine but dont try to tell others they are wrong to like it, just ignore the post if you feel that strongley.


This.

I'm not a huge fan of taxidermy (merely because I find the end result kind of creepy in a lot of cases), but if I bred mice and had to cull adults, I'd probably feed them to the dogs or else skin them and use a bunch of furs together as teeny little toys.


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## Frizzle

Taxidermy for referencing color actually sounds like a really good idea. Do you store them in a box, or what do you do with them?


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## Shadowrunner

I personally keep them in ..Its hard to describe.

I have a photo-box with built in files. I wrap the finished skins in wax paper, label the paper with a sharpie(name, date of birth,date of death...other things like temperament and faults and relations to other mice) and put skins from same litters in each file.
But in the bottom of the box I keep about a half inch of boric acid (it keeps bugs away)
The files are sort of suspended so they don't drag through the powder.

I originally started keeping the skins for color reference,because the only camera I have takes crap pictures. But as I kept doing it, I could identify things that might have killed a mouse that dropped for no apparent reason. Some people would think it's gross, but I want to know exactly what killed them.(most of my mice are pet store stock)
So I regularly do autopsies in addition to keeping the skin. It just helps me to breed healthier mice.
I mean, I know it's creepy to most people but they can't feel pain anymore, and it helps limit the suffering to my other mice...I don't see any reason to risk their health because of a ew factor other people have, you know?


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## Frizzle

No, thats really cool! If I had more space, it would deffinitly consider doing it. After a certain time do you chuck them? How many generations to you keep them? I imagine after a while there would just be soooo many skins.


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## Shadowrunner

I actually don't have that many yet.
I only started breeding seriously in January, and even then I've been smaller scale (holding out until I can find better stock ;D) I think I have around 30 of them. The first several attempts went all wrong. The ones I do have lay almost completely flat and all fit into a small section of the box. It kind of looks like a bookcase,but with skins instead of books. It's pretty neat. I've kept every one I did successfully. Just a few days ago I went back and looked at them. I thought the color had been getting paler than I like on the red piebalds and I was right...dang it. My room is teeny tiny so I keep the box under my bed. I'm Excited to be getting a new microscope soon, so I'll be able to check for things like abnormal blood cells or internal parasites.Hopefully I don't find any


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