# What do people do with their excess bucks?



## Aquila5

So I'm really soft, like mega mega soft. Which means that I now have a heap of excess bucks that I dont know what to do with. I dont want to give them to the petshop as they will just go as snake food (which I wouldn't have a problem with, but I detest live feeding), so what do I do with all of them? I'm running out of room  Unless I get more cages. What do other people do?


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## mouselover01

I just dealt with my excess bucks today. It's not pleasant but I cull my extras and then into the freezer they go for snake food.

I use the CO2 method.

My favorites I keep with me


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## Aquila5

Thats what I figured I'm going to have to do, but I dont know how to build myself up to it. If only they didn't fight and would live together like the girls, grr, I wouldn't have this problem


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## AnnB

I'm not a breeder, my mice are my pets but when I brought home a new doe who then produced nine surprise babies I was faced with the same problem as seven of the babies were bucks. I ended up getting them neutered and now they live happily in two small groups.


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## tinyhartmouseries

I cull litters down. It's better to cull pinkies then perfectly healthy adult mice, better emotionally on you and momma mice shouldn't have a large litter anyway.


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## moustress

It can be hard to get used to, but culling really is the most humane thing to do.


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## Seafolly

I'm a softie like you, taking in any stray critter no matter how undesirable. But I have to agree that although it feels horrible at the time, culling (humanely) is the answer. Unless I know the person, I'd be hesitant to trust anyone to care for my mice as I feel they deserve. Thus all my bucks were culled from the last litter. It still hurts, and I even tear up thinking about it, but I believe it was the right thing for them. With my next litter I think I'll keep one buck, just to see if the interest is out there, and if not, I'm up one buck. No big deal.


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## mousery_girl

yeah i cull pinkies too, I keep 4 for selling plus any if i need a new buck and kill the rest


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## moustress

I usually give my boys a chance to see if they can live with their brothers. When they start fighting, I cull the ones that are the aggressors. I have a bunch of boys who live in twos or threes, and one half-dozen bucks from one litter who are perfectly peaceful. The only time I hear any sounds of discord are when I try to give them all a chunk of kibble and leave them one kib short. I really love my boys, as they are the most fun, the most affectionate, the least shy...but if they act up, unless they are needed for breeding, they gotta go.


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## Seafolly

I have to agree that my favourite mice were always male. Calmest, most interested in interacting with me, etc. The exception is my current boy.


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## sys15

if you don't object to the mice being culled, but don't wish to cull yourself, just find a snake keeper that you trust and have him/her do the culling.


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## PPVallhunds

i also cull extras, when the litter is born i cull then based on what sex im after, then when they are older ill compair them and cull any who dont make the grade. They then go in the freezer and eventualy get fed to a snake or lizard.
Its sad but unfortantly around here mice are not popular pets and when someoen wants some they only want females and i just dont have th espace to keep a bunch of bucks.


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## MojoMouse

Up till a year ago I kept all excess bucks in a colony. They were housed with a young friend of mine who was studying, and writing an undergrad paper on mouse behaviour. She's since graduated and moved, and the colony boys have died (the oldest one at 27 months). The colony was successful, but it took a LOT of social engineering and hard work. (It was also very interestng!)

Now I sell (give away) the excess males and females to pet homes. There are plenty of those around in the inner city area where I live, as most people are not allowed to keep dogs or cats in their apartments. However, I seem to have nothing but dramas with the boys - they DON'T make good pets, not because of their natures but because very few people can tolerate the smell. 

I haven't culled yet, but now I'm at a stage where I am going to start, both for my breeding plans and to stop bucks having sad, negelcted lives as unwanted pets. I have a return policy on unwanted pets, but once they have lived alone they simply don't become integrated into male colony life, no matter how much social intervention and engineering you do.

I think it's wrong to imply that "soft" compassionate people can't or won't cull. I think the opposite is true. Soft, compassionate people are the ones who know it can be difficult to cull, but do so anyway because they put the humane outcome of the mouse before their own emotional discomfort.

When I have a new litter, I plan on posting pics and getting help identifying the one best buck to keep, then I will cull the other males. Further, I am going to get lessons from a good ethical feeder breeder I know on how to humanely cull an adult mouse. As a breeder responsible for bringing them into the world, I think it's essential to know how to put a mouse that's suffering (by accident or illness) out of it's misery. The fact that I hate the though of it, and will hate doing the deed, is MY discomfort, NOT the mouse's.


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## Serena

MojoMouse said:


> they DON'T make good pets, not because of their natures but because very few people can tolerate the smell.


They could get them neutered. Of course, this costs money, but it gets rid of the smell.
Seems to be common practise in Germany and Austria.

I personally cull what I don't need.


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## Seafolly

I definitely thought about neutering (I had a few of my rats neutered so they could live with females) but the snag is getting the mouse to leave the sutures alone. : / It can be done. I had a tumour removal done (the mouse lived another year!) but keeping the e-collar I made for her out of x-ray material was tough to keep on. If quick euthanasia is available if they do start to pull them out, and the alternative is being culled, then I'd say it's worth a shot.

_I think it's wrong to imply that "soft" compassionate people can't or won't cull. I think the opposite is true. Soft, compassionate people are the ones who know it can be difficult to cull, but do so anyway because they put the humane outcome of the mouse before their own emotional discomfort.

When I have a new litter, I plan on posting pics and getting help identifying the one best buck to keep, then I will cull the other males. Further, I am going to get lessons from a good ethical feeder breeder I know on how to humanely cull an adult mouse. As a breeder responsible for bringing them into the world, I think it's essential to know how to put a mouse that's suffering (by accident or illness) out of it's misery. The fact that I hate the though of it, and will hate doing the deed, is MY discomfort, NOT the mouse's._

Well said as always. 

I saw Jack mention this recently on his thread, but I found myself doing a similar thing. When I was culling my pinky bucks, I went in order of skull width since they were all the same size. Just in case I had to back out. So my female runt went first, then finally nearly an hour later (hypothermia can take 10 minutes to set in before the freezer) I did the buck with the biggest skull. I'm glad I chose that order, as I was so darn close to breaking I might have been "stuck" with him.


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## Serena

When neutering a male mouse, you don't have to suture the scrotum. there are techniques where you just leave it open (pretty much as in male cats). 
I'm thinking about getting 2 or 3 neutered as company for my bucks when they are not with a female.


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## Seafolly

Really?! That's actually really cool. How do they prevent infection from pretty much walking right into the open wound? I mean I assume the mouse would be on antibiotics anyway but still! Just thinking of how my boy likes to walk all over his poop.


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## Serena

apparently both sides of the qound just stick together and heal very quickly. I've read some vets use sterile tissue glue to close the scrotum, this seems to work, too.
I would keep them on paper (newspaper, tissuep.) for a few days after surgery, but later they should be just fine if you keep them clean.


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## Laigaie

Skin glue or surgical glue or liquid stitches, depending on what they're called at the office, is really neat stuff. Think about the way superglue sticks skin together. It's almost exactly like that. Definitely the way to go with neutering.


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## Seafolly

Ohhhh okay, I thought you meant the testicles were removed and the vet just left everything as is, haha. Yeah my rat had glue, but the vet was still worried about him worrying the wound and tearing himself open. He didn't, thank goodness.


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## maddeh

What are the risks with mouse neutering?
I would like to get my pet buck neutered but would be devastated to lose him. I assume it's pretty hard to find someone who is used to doing this operation on such a small scale... Just curious to know the chances of death whilst under anaesthetic really.


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## Seafolly

Someone will answer this more accurately I'm sure, but as with any surgery, there's a risk with anesthesia (an allergic reaction or they just respond differently), risk of infection, and then the mouse tearing at the wound which can be fatal if not sewn/glued back up quickly (assuming it's not a point of no return). My father did my rats, and he's never neutered an animal smaller than a cat before so it just means finding a vet who's willing to research and ask other colleagues about the procedure. That said I'd pick an experienced one if possible.


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## tinyhartmouseries

This may be irrelevant but when my several rats had mammary surgery, one doctor used glue and one used metal stitches. The sutures with the metal stitches healed much sooner, and not as lump-ly.


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## Seafolly

It could be the vet (re: lumps) - this guy was glued (though I know it's hard to see much).


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## AnnB

I've had nine of my bucks neutered now by the same vet. They have all come through the operation with no problems but as already mentioned, there is always a risk with any surgery.


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## PPVallhunds

How much does it coust you pet mouse to have done AnnB? Im asuming a lot as here if its not a cat or dog your better off seeing the exotic vet who charges twice as wuch just to look at them.


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## AnnB

Yes the cost is high unfortunately. Round here it's £56 per mouse although in other areas I understand it may only be £30.


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## thewesterngate

I'm currently keeping and raising all my males, because I need larger sizes for my reptiles. The bucks I'm breeding with will live their lives out with me forever, I adore them. I'll eventually be selling/giving away, and on occasion I cull runt pinks to my tinier snakes.


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