# We have babies!



## Peteyandthegang

This morning Marcelle, our broken choc and white doe, successfully gave birth to a wriggly squeaky heap of pups! I cant see how many there are and dont want to disturb her too much, as this is her first litter and ours, but so far all is looking well

Theres a bit of blood on the tissue, but hopefully thats just from birthing. I can certainly see a lot of movement

Ill keep you updated She was mated with a dove tan


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

Welcome to mother hood 

keep us updated on the babies growth


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## Peteyandthegang

Hehe thank you! Its ever so exciting  there are lots of little cheeps coming from in there!


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## NaomiR

yey that's very exciting I'm also coo-ing over my first meece litter, they get noisier by the day lol :lol:

will be really interesting to see what colours you get


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## Peteyandthegang

Thanx, yep its going to be exciting finding out! I really hope theyre al going to pull through now. Her last baby was born a bit later than the others and was stillborn There look to be about 6 pups remaining and theyre quite loud. Really hope theyll be ok. The mum isnt eating that much, although shes munched on a mealworm. Is this normal?


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## Angelmouse

Congratulations mousey mummy!


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## Peteyandthegang

Hehe thank you  and thanx for your help

Its tougher on me than I thought it would be though. I cant stop fretting! All the noise has now died down in there, no cheepy sounds...I know theyre probably just busy nursing or snoozing...but Im just paranoid


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## Peteyandthegang

The mini squeaks have now returned so they must have just been busy snuggling!


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## Peteyandthegang

Shes nested ina really awkward position...we havent been able to see the babies or count them...all I can see is a lot of blood  I can hear them and see them wriggling so I know there are survivors, but Im now worried there may be babies that didnt make it in there that need to be removed

Would it be best to take the risk and leave them, or take their cage apart for a moment so I can check the situation? Marcelle is a really tame mouse who trusts us, but I know were not supposed to intefere

If it means anything to anyone shes in a Rody cage and has nested in the green plastic compartment bit, which was unexpected

Thanx


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## Cait

I'd leave her until tomorrow, then have a peek if you can do so safely. Sometimes blood is just there after the birth and doesn't mean anything sinister has occurred.


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## Peteyandthegang

Thanx, thats what I figured wed do...I dont realy want to disturb them now
Hopefully its just from the birth...come on little pinks!


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## Peteyandthegang

More mini squeaks this morning. I still cant see them to count and check, overprotective nanny is covering them and giving me a dirty look! :lol:


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## Peteyandthegang

We have approx 8 healthy teenytiny pups! Had a very quick headcount while mum and nanny were having their supper so I may be mistaken...I just had to check, I was becoming so worried they had died in there as theres been very little noise today. Very very thankful theyre alive and well, all with milk bands. I really hope I havent put them in danger. I rubbed my hands in her corner first (nice!) Please tell me itll be ok


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## SarahC

chillax and enjoy them.


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

Just calm down, they will go quiet for a few days then they will get very vocal as mine are now 

Pictures are a must


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## Peteyandthegang

Hehe thanx guys...Im silly sometimes :lol: Well its day 3 today so yes, pics are on the way, and a proper headcount


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## Peteyandthegang

We have 7! And here they are!


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

Wow they are adorable  The one looks like it had a nice breakfast with that little fat belly


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## Peteyandthegang

Thank you  hehe yeah, I noticed the little greedy guts

Here they are today at 4 days old. You can see theres one much darker with a pink patch. I wonder what well get


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

awww so adorable, can't wait till they get fur


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## Angelmouse

Very cute!


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## Peteyandthegang

Last pic until they get fur, I promise :lol: But you can now see their little patches  (There are still 7...one was hiding)


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

oooo I want a few of the moo babies 

swap you for some of my satins in a couple of months


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## Peteyandthegang

Depending on genders, you may be on!  We already have 2 probably reserved aswell...so much for keeping them all :lol: No really we definitely want to keep most, so Ill let you know


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## Peteyandthegang

Well, they have fuzz! That counts as fur...completely  :lol:

Anyway just wanted to show a little moo


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

I want the little moo


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## Peteyandthegang

Hehe Marnie If you really do want the moo s/he may be available depending. Ill post up fur pics asap so you can have a proper look. It now looks like we have 5 broken and 2 dove by the looks of the fuzz. I reckon well have a crack at telling girls from boys tonight

Theyre so sweet :love


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## Peteyandthegang

Now looking a bit chocolatey! (Well, kind of!)








A different moo








:love


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

Moo Moo Babies 

Yummy looking chocolate mice you got there


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## Maze

Aww, Loving the pale faced ones :love1 
Congratulations!!


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## Peteyandthegang

Hehe thanx 

Its strange, in some lights they look more dove, but on that pic theyre definitely chocolate looking (although it is very dark in there) I think theyre just something inbetween :lol: (They obviously have black eyes though, so no dad clones)

Well I spent ages looking at sexing pics before they were born, and I was confident itd be no problem...There are some Im definitely sure about, like the moo in the middle of the top pic is definitely a doe, and the grey with a white dash on his back is definitely a buck (absolutely no doubt about those) But there are some sitting inbetween who just all look too similar! :? Im going to give it another day or 2 when hopefully Ill be able to spot more little nipples to help out :lol: When I read about sexing they didnt mention the squirm factor :lol:


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## Peteyandthegang

And thanx Maze, the little ****** faces are my fave too


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## Kage Davies

Look for the little dark spot on their bum. If they have one, they're a boy (at least, that's how I understand it.) I did all mine today :3. But mine are all coming up black, so if yours are lighter they might not have one.


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## Peteyandthegang

Thanx Kage, I tried looking for the spot but unfortunately ours are too light and none have any  The good news is Ive now managed to sex the majority of them (they now have nipples and their bits are less bitty!) We have 3 does, 2 bucks, and 2 Im unsure about. The 2 are a bit smaller and not as developed, so hopefully by tomorrow Ill be able to see with them too

Heres what we have  Im so pleased with this litter








The bucks









The does. Yay-our megamoo is a girl!

And the not so sures!









Were still completey at a loss as to what to do rehoming wise. We have 2 on reserve, any gender...but I wana keep them all  :lol: No doubt some will end up being available though, probably the last 2, whatever they are!


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## DomLangowski

I have removed some posts on this topic as i feel that they are completely off topic.

For the parties involved i urge them to plesae read the forum rules as any further problems may result in a warning.

*Quoted from the forum rules*

_Keep The Focus

Be nice to each other and respect everyone's opinions. Constructive criticism is welcome, and debating and discussion are good. We will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. If you have a problem with another member turn to the respective member of forum staff. We want this place to remain as friendly, warm and fun as possible!

Don't be scared to ask questions we love questions! Include as much information as you can when seeking help. Nobody will be able to help you if you don't give sufficient detail. Your questions are also likely help others if you post them on the forum. So please don't just PM breeders your questions! And please remember questions outside the scope of a certain forum will be moved to the correct forum, but save us the time by making sure you are posting it in the right place.

We want everyone to feel able to share and give advice. However, please don't give advice that you yourself would not follow. Don't just share your feelings. Nor just share your opinions without backing them up. Use your own words. If you wish to use the words of somebody else, quote them, citing the source. Always be sure to separate facts from opinion, but feel free to give the person both. It's OK to share information that you've learned about but make sure the person your sharing it with is aware of your level of experience or lack of... _


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## Effy

I am sorry...I didn't mean to cause such a fuss...posting without thinking. :roll: I'm bad at that.
Going to repost what I think of the babies, though, because I really do love the unknowns. :lol:

Let us know when you've seen girly or boy bits! o=


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## Peteyandthegang

I will do. Itll be tomorrow, Ive just had a banging headache today and theyre smaller than the others and impossibly squirmy. Whatever we get Ill be chuffed, theyre a gorgeous litter


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## Peteyandthegang

We have a real problem this morning...

The babies are 11 days old now. This morning there was blood just outside the nest...ad one of the babies is missing. Theres no sign of a body, I really think she was eaten. She was the smallest of the litter. I dont know if she died, or if its not too late for the mum to have thought shed get rid of the runt, but shes gone  Im gutted. Im worried for the others now, I didnt think they were in danger of being eaten this late on...Is it more likely she just died, and they ate her after? Are the others likely in danger now?


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## SarahC

it either had something wrong with it or the mother is not coping with a large litter and has reduced the amount herself .If she was to kill the entire litter at 11 days old I would suspect her to be ill and unable to rear them.It would be unusual ,I should try and resist handling the babies to frequently.I just want to comment on the sexing.I'm not sure what's meant by a black spot on the bum meaning it's male,thats a new one on me.If there is a gap between the anus and the stump it is male,the stump will also be larger,if the stump is small and flat with virtually no space between it and the anus it's female.They can be sexed at birth with a bit of practice and a magnifying glass will help if you are struggling.


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## Peteyandthegang

Thanks for that. I have now sexed them all, we have 3 of each remaining. I know it can be done rom birth, I just havent had much practice on my own yet. Im sure about these now though. Mum looks healthy, active and seems to be coping, so I really hope she doesnt kill the litter, Id be completely gutted  Well have to see though


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## Effy

Aw, which one was it which is gone?
The latest our rats ever decided to de-runt a litter was 14 days...which was a bit upsetting, as it was very late and the runt was actually my favourite of the litter! :lol: 
It's harder when you've had time t get used to them, but just remember that she's doing what she thinks is best and that you still have 6 lovely babies. ^_^

What sex are the unknowns, then? Bucks? (Trying to guess, since you said the one which is gone was slightly smaller and that's had to tell from the pics.)


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## Demi

Aww shame bout one dieing  .I luv the little brown one lol :love1


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## Kage Davies

sarahc said:


> it either had something wrong with it or the mother is not coping with a large litter and has reduced the amount herself .If she was to kill the entire litter at 11 days old I would suspect her to be ill and unable to rear them.It would be unusual ,I should try and resist handling the babies to frequently.I just want to comment on the sexing.I'm not sure what's meant by a black spot on the bum meaning it's male,thats a new one on me.If there is a gap between the anus and the stump it is male,the stump will also be larger,if the stump is small and flat with virtually no space between it and the anus it's female.They can be sexed at birth with a bit of practice and a magnifying glass will help if you are struggling.


Oh, the dark spot thing, to clarify. If the mouse has dark pigment, often the boys have a dark spot around their anus, and the girls don't. Or at least, mine do XD. But it could just be my freaky litter.

Sorry about your littlest . I still have twelve in my litter, and I have a horrible feeling the two smallest might go the same way... >>


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## Peteyandthegang

Effy said:


> Aw, which one was it which is gone?
> The latest our rats ever decided to de-runt a litter was 14 days...which was a bit upsetting, as it was very late and the runt was actually my favourite of the litter! :lol:
> It's harder when you've had time t get used to them, but just remember that she's doing what she thinks is best and that you still have 6 lovely babies. ^_^
> 
> What sex are the unknowns, then? Bucks? (Trying to guess, since you said the one which is gone was slightly smaller and that's had to tell from the pics.)


I really hope this was just a case of her de-runting as you say and the others will be safe. They all look well at the moment. Sorry to hear about your ratty runt Its gutting, isnt it?

The lost baby was one of the unknowns, the black and white, although I had managed to sex her before she went and she was a doe. The remaining unknown is a buck, leaving us with 3 of each. Im especially worried about the broken buck now as he is similar size as the baby we lost...


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## SarahC

the dark spot thing sounds dubious :!: .I have lost a puppy at 9 days old and one at 11 days old despite round the clock care from us ,the mother and help from the vets.Really distressing but nature I suppose, not everything thrives alas.


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## Peteyandthegang

Yeah, youre right I just figured they were safe from the mum killing and eating them now, but obviously not, unless the baby died on its own first. So bit of a shock


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## SarahC

the reason the mothers actually eat them and this includes gruesomely dogs and cats is so that their own resources are salvaged for them and their own species instead of a predator/enemy profiting from the fruit of their loins and therefore increasing enemy numbers.Makes sense really.


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## Effy

Going off topic ever so slightly...I just have to say that I hate how UNnatural humans are, we're quite disgusting with how we raise babies, really. All other animals look after themselves, make sure they have the number of babies they can cope with, eat everything they should do for nutrients etc-placenta included-and then actually RAISE them to maturity. We do nothing...we just pop them out, feed them unnatural food, throw away valuable sources of energy and then complain about the kids...before having [email protected][email protected]
I dislike humans. >____>

Anyhoo...back on topic...that was my favourite pup! Oh wells...I suppose them being unknowns was a bit of a sign in itself.

You know...you haven't taken new photos in a couple of days!  
I'm not saying to...it's good you're leaving them to chill for a while, what with the pup and all...I'm just saying, it's odd. :lol:


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## SarahC

I know what you mean about people,scourge of the planet but on the other hand when you see humans battling to rescue beached whales or clubbing together to help starving children it's very moving.Animals only help their own.alas lots of people seem to lack this humanity that should set us apart.Anyway update us on the babies,it's all been very nailbiting.


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## Peteyandthegang

Im just popping in very quickly (were moving house today and will be offline for a while from now) to let you know the remaining 6 pups are doing fine this morning...Very unfortunate we have to move though, although its only down the road so well make it as quick and stress free as possible for them all. Im leaing well alone for a few days, the nanny mouse has pushed up a load of bedding etc against the nest and obviously they want some peace. Hopefully by the time were back online well have 6 lively open-eyed babies all thriving. I really hope. Sorry to say if thats the case I think theyll all be keepers :lol:


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## Peteyandthegang

Effy said:


> I suppose them being unknowns was a bit of a sign in itself.


She was definitely a couple of days behind development wise...to be honest she hadnt much changed down there since only being a couple of days old, which is why I struggled, whereas the others were very obvious by the time she went. You can kind of see on this pic and the one further back how much pinker she was than the others, but you cant well too well how much smaller and slower she was


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## goldenboyroe

hi, sorry you lost your little one - when i used to breed i wouldn't sex them or get too attached before they were plenty old enough cos it happens a lot and can be sad 

the rest are well cute tho


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## Peteyandthegang

Well, we had a few more hiccups along the way, but we finally have 6 healthy and very active 4 week olds


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## Peteyandthegang

Here were 3 of them about a week ago  This is Daisy, Jin and Pearl. Daisy (furthest left) is smaller than the others but is looking good


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## Maze

OMG I love daisy!!! shes gorgeous! 
They're all very cute! :love


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## Miss-Freak-Of-Nature

They are adorable :love


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## Peteyandthegang

Thanx  Some are looking longhaired now, Ill have to take some more pics


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## Peteyandthegang

Found another one taken last week...this is either Jin or Pearl, impossible to tell from the front end


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## Angelmouse

They are lovely, well done. I'm likeing Daisy :love1


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## Peteyandthegang

Thank you :love1 Everyone loves Daisy, shes a little star. I moved the boys out into their RUB bachelor pad today and they love it...I even found a little baby sized wheel in one of our tubs for them! Im really going to have to get my act together and be able to part with some of the babies in our next litter though


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## sarahh

Aww bless so cute. Sorry about your little one we have a runt too but she is doing well alot smaller than the others but getting there.


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