# New ..girls?.... some help with sex and colours please! :)



## Meeces89 (Jun 20, 2011)

I just got two does (i think though im a novice and to me they do look a bit like males ...:/ so if someone could confirm that would be wonderful! )

one i believe is a pale chocolate but she had lovely ears so i picked her over another choc that was a bit darker.

the other looks to be a champage tan (though very pale) astrex (though you cant see the wave in her coat from the pictures very well)

http://imageshack.us/g/233/choc1d.jpg/

i am told they are from show lines from an NMC breeder, the lady i bought them from is also an NMC member and has been breeding her show stock from those NMC meece. 
choc one is lovely and tame and will happily sit in your hand and let you stroke her or sit still for photos.
the astrex squeaks when you go to pick her up (though doesnt run away per se) once you're holding her she wanders about quite happily but if you put her down she'll run off haha photos werent so easy  :roll:

do let me know what you think.

I am considering breeding them, is it likely that the astrex would be passed on to babies with only one astrex parent? 
likewise the tan (if i bred with a different colour would it have potential to produce that colour tan?)

and in the case of the choc one, would nice ears be passed down to babies if just one parent has good ears?

if i breed with a pet type for colour would that ruin any good type features?

thanks!!


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

I can't see the pictures :\
But congratulations anyway ^^ Always lovely to get new pets.


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## Meeces89 (Jun 20, 2011)

thanks jathy, i've just edited the links so they should work now and it seems they're huuuuge! sorry :?


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

Sorry, I can't see your pictures. But so you know, if you are told the mice are from show lines from an NMC breeder originally, that means absolutely nothing. All mice might be once upon a time from an NMC breeder's lines. As soon as mice leave an NMC breeder's shed, they are pet mice. I'm just saying this as I don't think it's fair on people when they are told they have X, and in fact they have Y.

As for your breeding questions, i don't know about astrex, but i think you need both parents to be at least carriers of it to get astrex babies. On tans, if you breed your tan to a self mouse, and your tan is pretty pure bred (as in several generations of tan x tan), you should get 90% - 100% tan babies - if your tan is mixed and carries a lot of self, you'll get a mixture of tans and selfs. Colour wise, it depends what colours you are breeding to what.

As these are pet mice, not show mice, you don't really need to think about the ears and such. If you want good looking mice that will, with work, produce more good looking mice (nice ears etc), get some exhibition mice from an NMC breeder - breeding assorted pet mice together will give you more assorted pet mice - which isn't a bad thing if you're just interested in breeding some pretty colours to make more lovely pets! It's all good!


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

I think those pix are distorting the shape of the forum - you should resize them and make them a tad smaller


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

Huuuge pictues, but definitely does  
The space between anus and genitals is bigger on bucks than does. And also you can usually see the testicles on bucks when they are just sitting like on the first picture.


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## Meeces89 (Jun 20, 2011)

the lady i got them from is also an NMC member, and does show her mice (these are the rejects so to speak after she has had pick of the litters) hence being unsure of what that makes them. I really wanted mice that i could show if i wanted to (as a novice i am unsure about this at the moment.)

odd that the pictures arent working, i can see them just fine on here :/

i'll swap the pics for a link to the album instead... sorry all


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## Meeces89 (Jun 20, 2011)

thanks jathy.... i was told and at first thought they were and then had a moment of ... hang on a moment! :lol:

loganberry, are these and future offspring no good for showing at all then? :?


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

May I ask who you bought the mice from? They are lovely pet mice, but those mice are definitely not show standard mice - on chocolate and tans, it's all about the colour. Both are too pale, and the parents would have been as well. And you don't see any astrex satin tans on the show bench! 

Perhaps the person you bought them from has mice they show, and these mice as well. Either way, they are pet quality, not exhibition mice, so the whole 'come from an NMC breeder' thing is irrelevant.

What you need is exhibition quality mice - if you've been told these are a good start for you as an exhibitor, which you seem to say above, I'm afraid you've been misled, which is really unfair.

I'm in South London and can help you get good quality mice, for showing, if that's what you want.

PS Both mice are does!


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## Galaxy (May 25, 2011)

I think they are lovely! Have you put them on FB? Where did you get them from? PM me if you don't wanna say in this thread.


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Just stumbled across this thread!
I am very saddened by the contents and the incorrect accusations that have been made about me.
At no time did I ever tell you these mice were suitable for showing or even for breeding for show. I also never said I had been using these mice for show breeding. These mice are only good for keeping as pets.
During our emails you stated you wanted them as pets, not for show. Had you been honest about your intentions, I would of happily pointed you in the direction of other breeders because as I pointed out to you I myself am a novice and am still learning. 
I mentioned being a member of the NMC as I always do to promote what a valuable resource it is to anyone wanting to take up showing mice. 
I have the greatest respect for the NMC and the LSCMRC and have spent the past few months learning and listening to what other more experianced mousebreeders have to say. I have slowley been plodding away in my shed and attending shows, forging relationships with other members.
Thanks to your dishonesty you have now made me out to be someone just trying to rip people off :evil: Thanks for that :roll: 
To be honest lady, any show quality mice I have, stay in my shed and I definately wouldn't supply someone starting out with any of my stock. There are many more much better mice out there available from more experianced breeders.
I suggest in future you are sure in yourself what it is you are looking for. If you want to show that's great but there is no quick way to go about it. Sourcing foundation stock is time consuming and requires a lot of travelling and patience. All is worth it in the end when you are up and running but there is no quick fix.


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## Meeces89 (Jun 20, 2011)

i have made no accusations, i have simply stated what i believed to be the case so that i could get feedback on the mice from others here.

i never stated i was looking for pet mice just said i would like to begin with good show stock which i could work with and learn about showing before i began to do so for the moment they would be pets as opposed to active show mice, and we did have discussions about shows and joining clubs in emails.

as a novice myself, statements like the ones below did lead me to believe i was looking at show mice.

"I have many varieties of mice as I breed them for show."
"As I am a member of the National Mouse Club I follow a controlled breeding program. None of my mice are intensively bred.
I breed for size, type and health."
"Like other show breeders I do cull litters down"
"As for their size it depends.I have a few show varieties from pale selfs to brokens and the size does vary."
"I got my foundation stock from NMC breeders."
"As for why all females, I only really provide males to order."


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Exactly, you stated what you believed, not what I told you.
Like I said if you had made it clear you wanted stock to begin showing I would never have provided you with any of my mice. You stated there were to be pets. 
As I stated that the mice available were not to standard, which you accepted as you didn't want them for show.

You have taken quotes from our emails and taken them out of context.
Yes I said I breed mice for show, which is what I do.
Yes I said I was a member of the NMC, who got my foundation stock from other NMC breeders. Again this is correct.
BUT, I also told you that I didn't breed specifically the varieties you were after. 
I also made it clear that the mice I had available DID NOT meet the show standard. This was even before you came to see them.
We spoke a lot about showing and joining clubs and such and you said it was something you may consider BUT in the future.
You did not ask for show breeding stock, I did not tell you they were show breeding stock so it seems very unfair to now be unhappy that you have got yourself a couple of pet mice that are no use for show breeding. 
I resent the way you have tried to make out I missled you.
I am trying, like other members to breed my mice to the standards set out by the NMC. Those standards are my goals, any mouse that is not usefull in reaching those goals has no need to be in my shed. But that doesn't mean some of these mice can't live out their lives as much loved pets. These are the ones you saw when you came. You didn't even see any of my show stock, you never asked about show mice, and you never went in the mouse shed. One of the reasons for breeding to the NMC standard is to attend shows. This is what a show mouse breeder does. This doesn't mean though that every mouse in that persons shed is show worthy, there is a lot of waste.

Thank you though, this has taught me a valuable lesson. As far as I was aware I made it clear that my mice were well cared for, responsibly bred animals that were a byproduct of my hobby of breeding showmice. All that is wrong with them is that they either are missmarked,or the wrong colour or not of good enough type i.e. not to standard. This in no way stops them from being great pets.
I am not sure how this information could have led you to believe you were purchasing foundation stock for show breeding.
Nevermind the fact that good foundation stock will cost you a lot more money than what you paid for my mice


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## Meeces89 (Jun 20, 2011)

i never accused you of anything..... i never came to you and said anything, i never complained to you. i never complained to anyone else to be honest i just stated exactly like i did here what i believed was the case when we spoke via email when i was asked.

i haven't gone to cause any trouble whatsoever. I havent tried to make out i was mislead.... if i had i would have spent my entire message saying look at these mice i was sold as show mice arent they awful this person lied..... i was sadly mistaken and that was pointed out by another member... that was all... i havent accused or complained or anything so i really dont appreciate having you come on here telling me i have done.


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