# Is there a difference between long hair and angora?



## DaisyTailsMousery

What is the difference, if there is one?


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Yes, I believe angora is long all over, and longhair is just long guard hairs. Or the other way around? 

You might want to wait for someone who actually breeds LH. I have owned them, but I really only like standard and astrex coats, so I'm not very experienced.


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## ThatCertainGlow

Supposedly, as I understand it, angora is meant to have both guard hairs and undercoat hairs that grow out twice or so the normal length, giving a puffball, or fluffy, soft effect. Long hair is described as only being long guard hairs, with a normal undercoat, making a less puffed look. Having had both effects before in the same line of mice, I don't actually know if I believe them to be separate genes or not. Both can look positively messy, or clumpy, and both can look like fantasy mice. Neither seems to be easy to keep type on, without losing most of the length effect in the hairs.

-Zanne


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## DaisyTailsMousery

So which one is this?








Her regular hair is barely any longer than my mice with the standard coat, but it does seem a lot shaggier. Also, her guard hairs are a LOT longer than normal ones


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## ThatCertainGlow

Either way in there, I think? Hard to tell with the condition the fur is in right now. Although, I have read that some of the long hair/angora pet store strains seem to never lose that messy look, I'm hoping for your sake that this mouse looks rather different in a few months.  It does not appear to be fully expressed, either way, as both undercoat and guard hairs are not as long as you would expect.

In a few months, hopefully, the 'angora' part would show as zig zaggy undercoat hairs, with the fine long guard held up a bit in puffs. 'Long hair' would be straight undercoat hairs, even if they decide to be long. I think the straight undercoat is more common in the UK than here, but I had mice with it. At this point, it's all clumped up and such, making it hard to tell. The difference will be something that looks like thistle down, vs a flowing robe. If the offspring are bred together it might be clearer.

Good luck,
Zanne


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## DaisyTailsMousery

I am thinking that she is just a very poor example of whichever one she is. after all, she is just a petsmart mouse, and petsmart isn't known for having the best quality... I am hoping that her future grandbabies will make it clearer


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## candycorn

She is a poor angora who is also greasy.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Greasy? How do I make that go away?


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## TwitchingWhiskers

rematnogard said:


> Greasy? How do I make that go away?


It usually means a mouse is in poor condition; overcrowding or too much protein could also be causes. Take good care of her and keep her quarantined just in case she's sick. Cut down on high protein food and fatty seeds.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Okay  She's currently on her own and getting 1 lab block per day so I hope she stops being greasy soon.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

rematnogard said:


> Okay  She's currently on her own and getting 1 lab block per day so I hope she stops being greasy soon.


Is that all the food she gets in a day? Mice should have an unlimited amount of food, readily available to them. Reason being, they are foragers and eat small amounts of food throughout the day, not a load of food once a day.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Well my friend who is in vet school had to do a final exam on the small animal unit. She had to bring her own small animal so she borrowed my mouse for her exam. They did a fake surgery on her with dull needles and plastic scalpels etc. and while there the vet said that they were overweight and needed to go on a diet. One block a day is what the vet recommended so that's what they get. Although I usually do hand feed them little treats daily to keep them tame and social. For treats I usually use sunflower seeds or cheerios. Today she got a small piece of pizza crust.


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## pro-petz

I would give them very basic dog biscuit as a treat and not sunflower seed or cheerios as sunflower seeds are prone to putting on weight in rodents and cheerios I actually bought a box and after tasting them found them to be rather sweet looking at the label 7g of sugar.

Whether cheerios in the USA are different than ones purchased in the UK I do not know but I would avoid that high a sugar content for mice.

I would look for treats/diet that are zero sugar and single figure protein content til the coat is not so greasy. and then reintroduce the lab blocks if the coat becomes greasy again then alternate between the two diets til you maintain coat condition, may end up feeding alternative diet 4 days out of seven it is something you have to experiment with.

Sorry can not help with identifying whether it is Angora or Long hair


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## DaisyTailsMousery

I think I am going to continue on her current diet for now. She only gets 1-2 treats daily and isn't overweight by any means, and I think the greasyness is from living at petsmart with 4+ other mice when there clearly was no room and whatever they were feeding her there. I've only had her for 3 days now and I will change her diet if she's still greasy at the end of her quarantine, but I'm going to wait and see if this works first. I'm not going to go out and buy more food just to use on the one mouse if there might not even be a need for it.


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## pro-petz

rematnogard said:


> Well my friend who is in vet school had to do a final exam on the small animal unit. She had to bring her own small animal so she borrowed my mouse for her exam. They did a fake surgery on her with dull needles and plastic scalpels etc. and while there the vet said that they were overweight and needed to go on a diet. One block a day is what the vet recommended so that's what they get. Although I usually do hand feed them little treats daily to keep them tame and social. For treats I usually use sunflower seeds or cheerios. Today she got a small piece of pizza crust.


I am now confused as you stated you are only feeding them 1 block a day due to the vet saying they were overweight and now as they may need to have a change in diet to help the mouse with not only weight but condition it is no longer overweight.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

What the vet told me was that the recommended amount for any mouse was one lab block per day. It wasn't a special diet or anything, he just said that that's what's recommended and that I should give them less treats to get their weight down and keep it at a good place.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

I'm deeply confused, as well.

If your mice are believed to be overweight, why in the world would you feed them cheerios, pizza and sunflower seeds? Also, why do they need a real mouse for a fake operation (just wondering)?

Food restriction is not recommended for mice, and I don't know what your vets specialties are, but I defiantly would not recommend a limiting a mouses food consumption. Nor do I recommend feeding overweight (or any animals) animals pizza.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Can you guys quit it with all the criticism please? I fed her a tiny bit of pizza crust. It's not like I'm feeding her whole slices with pepperoni and sausage :roll: It didn't even have cheese or anything on it, basically just a tiny piece of bread. And I can't really see how giving a mouse a sunflower seed or two a day is going to harm it, especially considering there are plenty of people out there who are feeding them horrible store bought mixes that have sunflower seeds in them. All my friends instructors are certified vets and I was just doing as I was told by them and I'm not going to change that because some nameless icon behind a screen said so. Also all my mice get this diet, and now all of them are at a good healthy weight and are totally happy and fine with what they eat.

And the reason she needed to borrow my mouse was because she had to show the instructor that she knew how to handle it properly and how to identify parts and potential problems. The fake surgery was probably a little over the top, but, still, c'mon guys she's just trying to get a degree....


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## DaisyTailsMousery

I also don't think of it as food restriction either. In my 50 gallon tank with my 7 girls in there I place 7 blocks, and they munch throughout the day and there is often still some left when I go to feed them the next day.


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## Cordane

While I'm not going to comment on everything said, I see no problem with giving them a piece of crust off a pizza as long as its free of anything that's bad for them. It's no different to giving them some Toast!
As for the 1 lab block per day, personally I would never restrict their diet unless they were dangerously over weight (and even then I would just limit certain parts. In saying that, as long as they always have food in the bowl, they should be ok


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## pro-petz

Lets put it right you stated that the vets thought your mouse was overweight and recommended 1 lab block a day, nothing wrong with that as you have stated it is about as much as a mouse will eat in a day. What people are commenting on is that you are still feeding foods that increase weight which is going against veterinary advice.

The impression some may be getting is that you only take the advice as long as it does not cost you any more money, that is not good practice as like humans animals need a variety in their diet. If you had to eat a block of what scientists calculated to be all you need to survive everyday and only have the same amount of treats daily no variation how long would it be before you got bored of it?

Alternatives have been put to you. Looking at lab blocks basically two types available 1rotein content approx 14 per cent and used for daily non breeding diet. 2:Higher Protein content used for breeding purposes, as this latter is the most common sought and most widely available.

Greasy fur as pointed out is caused by excess protein in the diet and the higher protein diet lab blocks is not going to help in clearing up the condition of the fur, again alternative diet has been suggested at a minimal cost dollar store would have everything you require so looking at less than $5, its not as if the food would go to waste as the mice would benefit and can always be stored in air tight container in case greasy fur occurs again.

As for the fake surgery that is something you would have discussed with your friend beforehand knowing the risks involved if the animal was put to sleep during the period or not and the dangers involved which is the same as in humans, as I say that is personal choice whether some agree or not.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

The thing is though, that they are no longer overweight, and feeding a few treats to her a day won't make them become obese.

And the money thing is not true at all. I am constantly spending money on them, buying toys and chews and new wheels, cleaning products, etc. and they're not getting the same treats every day.. I usually go through my cupboard and find treats suitable to use that are suitable, rice, oats, etc. and feed them that as treats, or if I see something I can afford at the store I buy it for them. And knowing my mice, they're probably never bored of food XD

I have no way of getting other kinds of lab blocks either, as I live in the middle of nowhere and the only place around that even sells mouse food only sells mixes that seem.. just bad in general, besides these lab blocks. I can't order food online as I don't have a credit card or any way to pay via internet.

And the fake surgery.. The mouse was awake the whole time. The teacher scruffed her while my friend showed where to administer a shot and did a removal of an imaginary tumor. No risk involved there besides increased stress, but she was returned to me within an hour or two and didn't really seem too stressed.

I am doing the best I can with what I have available to me.


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## pro-petz

I understand getting lower protein lab blocks is difficult, financial restrictions etc can and does play a big part in choosing a suitable diet for our mice.

Nest time you are in town buying your groceries look at the pet section and look at the dog mixer biscuits and the protein content on them, besides being low in protein most are also hard which benefits the mice with their teeth.

Being in the UK I am not sure what is available in the USA but looking in the dollar stores you can find many suitable treats and food which you could mix as an alternative diet and feed when greasy fur appears and have on stock in case you run out of blocks before getting to buy more. Building a mix up over time as funds are available.

cleaning products only 2 really needed unless like me you choose to go for the expensive one used by vets, but bleach and disinfectant are the only 2 really needed and diluted and placed in a small plant sprayer type thing and labeled accordingly will clean and disinfect everythig within a cage or tank including the wires. Thoroghly rinsed afterwards to remove any possible residue and dried.

By looking at various aspects although may need to pay out a bit initially the savings come into there own as wastage is reduced considerably. The sprayer bottle I use is trigger type and holds 1.5 litres in which I place a capful of bleach into one and a capful of disinfectant into the other, a 24 inch 60cm by 12 inch 30cm base uses just 3 trigger presses to coat the entire interior. I know these are available ready made up but find it more cost effective doing it myself.

Toys and such I have a selection which is rotated in addition to any toilet roll tubes and cardboard boxes. Just some ideas for you to look at.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

> In my 50 gallon tank with my 7 girls in there I place 7 blocks, and they munch throughout the day and there is often still some left when I go to feed them the next day.


If this is true, then they are not on a restricted diet, no concern.



> I fed her a tiny bit of pizza crust. It's not like I'm feeding her whole slices with pepperoni and sausage It didn't even have cheese or anything on it, basically just a tiny piece of bread. And I can't really see how giving a mouse a sunflower seed or two a day is going to harm it, especially considering there are plenty of people out there who are feeding them horrible store bought mixes that have sunflower seeds in them.


Sunflower seeds are fatty, and are not recommended to feed in large amounts. The point is (as pro-petz stated), you were not closely following your vets advice, you fed fatty foods to your mice.

I know some pet owners feed little bits of people food to their mice without ill effects, but I certainly wouldn't. Although, my mice get _no_ treats, and are hand tame/friendly.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Well, I guess what I've been feeding her has worked.. she is no longer greasy. It's just whatever she was eating at petsmart before I got her.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

rematnogard said:


> Well, I guess what I've been feeding her has worked.. she is no longer greasy. It's just whatever she was eating at petsmart before I got her.


Do you have pictures of her current condition?


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Not yet


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Be sure to post them when you have them.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Fine. Here. If you're so worried about her greasiness :roll: 
http://daisytailsmousery.deviantart.com/art/Another-Oomie-pic-356513731


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