# Has she gone Blind?



## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

I've had my three mice for under, but close to a year. The first two, Aurum and Argent, weren't tiny when I got them, but they have grown a lot. The third, Shiro, was a Feeder that I saved and while she is the smallest, it is very safe to say she is the alpha of the three.

It's Argent, one of my first two, that seem to be having problems. She has always been very, I would say twitchy, at any sound, or movement she would freeze up for a moment watching and listening, then run as fast as she could up to the sleeping area and hide while the others would come to the edge of the cage and investigate. Picking her up to socialize her more was the biggest problem. She would dart around so fast I couldn't catch her. And when I had her she would either dart around in my hands looking for a way out or sit in one spot and breath and shake so bad I thought she was gonna have a heart attack. After awhile of trying and trying to get her to calm down and get used to me, with no luck, I left her to herself in the cage. I reach and pet her still just for some sort of hope, but nothing changed.

Until yesterday. I noticed her staying in her bedding more then usual, not coming down when I called like the others(which she did after lots of effort on my part, knowing there was special treats), I had assumed that Shiro was bulling her again recently and she just wanted nothing to do with the others for a bit like normal.

Today when I checked on them and refilled their water, Argent was on the bottom level, in the corner and looked a little out of it. Her fur seemed a little ruffled, and she wasn't moving when I talked to her, not even running away. She seem to be breathing deep and slower, nothing like the short quick breaths she normally takes. When I reached in to pick her up she still didn't move, until I touched her, she jumped slightly and tried to move to the tube up to her bedding, but not very fast.

When I held her in my hand she just sat there doing nothing. Her breathing didn't change but I could feel her heart rate go up a little bit. She is the one the poops the most when held, but this time none of that either. After the first touch in the cage she doesn't twitch when I touch her, but I think I would feel better if she did.

After I put her back in the cage she seemed to cling to the walls, walking slow, and hide in the corner again. She wouldn't eat any of the food I set in front of her and when I set her up on the platform with the fresh water, she froze again and I could see her breathing quicken and she haunched up a bit more. She was in the middle of the platform touching nothing but what was under her feet. I don't think she could tell where she was. I set her back down on the bottom level and she once again clung to the sides of the cage and found a corner, buried her nose in the shavings and the only movement has been her deep, even breathing.

I'm 18, live with my mother and my aunt, I have no job, so I have no money to go to a vet, and they wont pay for one either.

Any help and information would be wonderful.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Hi Random Colors. Your little lady does sound as though she`s not right. Although I would first suspect a respiratory issue, especially as you say her breathing patterns have changed and she`s looking slow. Is she sneezing at all? Or is her breathing just shallow/breathing from the abdomen rather than the chest? If your in the UK, Baytril from your vet costs around £5.00 for a full vial/syringe and this will last you over a week. Consultation fees are where the costs come in normally depending on what your vet charges. Giving a few near to you a ring will let you know.

Her actions tell you that she`s obviously not right if she`s always been highly strung. Make sure she can reach her water bottle by lowering the bottle down to her level. If you can`t manage that due to the type of cage you have, try puting a flat piece of wood under the bottle and cover it with litter. This acts as a stepping stone `up` and helps poorly mice to drink if they can`t reach up or don`t have the strength to. Or place a low sided ceramic dish of water in the cage as a back up.

Make sure she`s eating and offer some foods that you might not normally feed. When mice are ill, they need to be kept warm and eating/drinking, so offer a small piece of brown bread dipped in soya milk (but not soaked), dry porridge oats, a little bit of plain tea biscuit...


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks for the reply.

I live in the States and just going to see a vet here is pricey, not to mention actually getting any medication from them. And I sadly don't really have much in the way of alternate food or her, and her food and water are on the second floor platforms of the cage. I was thinking of setting up the small starter cage I have, but I'm hesitant to leave her alone in there, but its not quite big enough for one of the others as well. She's not sneezing at all and I never really looked before but she's breathing from the chest, not her abdomen right now. She's just breathing deeper, and a little faster now within the last half hour.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

If your water bottles are placed higher up in the cage and you do find that she is`nt too agile, place a shallow dish (the lid from a jar will do) and place that on the ground floor of your cage. Mice can dehydrate quickly, so make sure she has water. Seperating her will just cause seperation anxiety, so always leave an ill mouse or an old mouse with her cagemates as they do offer companionship and comfort.

I think you can buy a bird antibiotic in the states over the counter called Ornacycline? I`ve never used this, but it`s a mild version of a Tetracycline drug and I think you dose it in the drinking water? Perhaps some of our US members can advise you on this? I don`t know how effective it is, but mice can have tetracycline antibotics for respiratory problems. You would need to find out the dosage for a mouse though if the pack states the dosage for birds only.

It`s a good idea to put away a few dollars a week for any medications you need. A little `mouse bank` for emergencies! Having no funds for pets is`nt a good idea because they need pain relief and medical care. I know vets are extortionately expensive over there and many won`t even treat mice, which is shameful. I would sell my soul to have my mice helped! 

How is she now? Maybe ask friends and/or neighbours for some porridge oats and grains if they have any spare?


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

She seems to be doing a bit better. She's responding to things now, trying to get away from me and she's navigating the cage better, but she still being slow about it all. I gave her little bits of rye bread yesterday and she seemed to take well to that, but its always been a bit on a problem for her to eat a lot, the others are very greedy, they tend to take things from her. She would normally eat then the others were sleeping, but now that shes hiding and sleeping more she doesn't really get that chance.

My aunt bought some papaya treats today and i gave each of them a piece. Shiro nibbled on it a bit then left it, Aurum finished hers then went after the one Shiro left, but Argent didn't touch hers. I don't know if that was because she was up in the bedding area, or cause she's not feeling well. I have seen her eat stray bits of food here and there the last few days, so she is eating, and I left it up there with her in case she was just afraid of me being so close. I think Aurum might find it before she decides to try it though..


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Might be worth placing the bed they sleep in on the ground floor to make things easier for her? Sometimes it`s a good idea to adjust cage furniture to elp the mouse that`s not coping so well. Especially if she does`nt have the same energy to climb up to be with her cagemates.

Mice will snatch pieces of food from one another. It`s just what they do! Just make sure they have either more than one food dish in seperate areas of the cage, or scatter feed. Make sure they have a decent grain and seed mix. Sometimes the plainer, the better. Look for grains like oats, wheat and barley in a mix and seperately, you can buy smaller seeds for birds like wild bird seed, Linseed (or flax as it`s also known as), buckwheat, canary seed, hemp seed... these are oily and mice love them.

Look at what you feed and see what you can add to it. A good `base` mix would be a rabbit mix or a rat mix. The most important thing though, is to read the ingredients list on the bag and the analysis. You don`t want to be feeding more than 14% protein. Non-breeding mice don`t need it.


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

That picture is the type of cage I have them in. So I can't really move things around, I did place the food dish in the bottom, right in front of the cage door though. But the water bottle hangs down to the right shelf. I just put a smaller food dish with water in it in the back to the right of the wheel but with that and the food dish down there, there isn't much room.

All three of then sleep up in the very top, and Argent doesn't seen to have trouble with going up and down the tubes, I just haven't seen her go up to the shelves where the food and water normally are.


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

I am happy to report that Argent is acting normal now. She's running away and freaking out at the slightest sound or movement. 8D She interacting with the others normally too.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Sorry for the late reply! I had a look at your cage and I`m not sure of the dimentions of the actual cage, but one thing that worries me about these cages is the tubes that run vertically down the sides and the tiny shelves. They are difficult for some mice (especially as they age) to get down from. They are just too `vertical`. Here in the UK, we prefer to use caging that offers more floor space. Many people even make their own Bin cages. Have you seen these? You basically buy a large, cheap clear plastic storage box and make it into a cage! You can do your own DIY and add mesh to the front and the roof/lid. You can still have internal shelves and tubes inside. Just ventilating the actual lid is fine, as long as they have good ventilation.

I think your cage is a Crittertrail? These are usually aimed at kids because of their bright colours and plastic looks. They are not good mouse cages I`m afraid. Not a criticism you understand and I know it`s hard if you don`t have funds to buy another cage, but I would definately look around for even a second hand/free glass tank? It would be a much better housing set up for your girls. 

Glad to hear they are all doing well.


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

Yeah. I don't really like the Crittertrail cages. They are hard to assemble and the metal parts tend to warp after awhile and it makes it harder and harder to put back together after cleaning. I had gift cards when I got them. So I had to find the biggest cage I could, that would fit in my room, without going over what was on the cards.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

As your girls age, they won`t use or appreciate the tubes in there or the height, so it will definately benefit them (and you!) to find them an old tank or construct a storage bin for them. Ask around friends and family. You never know one might just turn up! An old fish tank would do but make sure it`s disinfected as fish can harbour bacteria.

The Bin tub/cage sounds as though it might be your best bet in terms of cheapness. Easy to clean and gain access aswell and your girls won`t have any steep tubes to worry but. Hanging a bottle in a Tub is easy. All you do, is melt a hole in the side of the plastic for the water bottle spout and two smaller holes above that for the metal holder to hook through. Job done!


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

I think you might be proud of me. I spent the night at a friends house, and she has lots of different animals, cats, chickens, turkeys, geese, pheasants, two little budgies, a snake and a bearded dragon, and she happened to have an old tank that her snake out grew. We cleaned it out, scrubbed it down, brought it over to my place and set it up. Its the perfect size for the top of my dresser and the girls love it. And it's not such an eye sore. 8D


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

It's not letting me add the picture on here right now, so here's a link to it elsewhere.

http://random-colors.deviantart.com/art ... -195180209


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Fantastic!  Was`nt that a bit of luck? I`ll bet your girls will be much happier now that they don`t have those nasty vertical tubes and narrow shelves! If you can get a cardboard egg box and cut doors into it on either side, they will love it! I cut out one of the `turrets` in the egg box aswell as they love a peep hole! :lol:

ventilation is important with tanks, so make sure they get plenty of fresh air when it`s muggy or warm weather. Have a window open near them but not so as they are in a draught.

Let us know how they are getting on in their new home. x


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## SmallFurryDisco (Jan 27, 2011)

I too put egg boxes in the cage but with no holes and they love it, they munch it to make holes for quick escapes.
Most of our cardboard boxes are kept for the ladies.

Regarding the fund thing it would be a good idea.
I am disabled so do not have have a lot of money but after having at least one mouse ill a year I needed some funds going on.

Recently one of my mice needed an operation and I was so thankful that I had saved most of the operation costs and consultation costs beforehand, I would of had to put her down otherwise. The operation for me cost about £80, put that with consultation fees as well and it was nearly a £100, but I class that as money well spent.

Most vets (in England at least) are good if you explain you have little money. For example with the operation I explained to them that I had limited funds so they wrote that on her admission form and the maximum I could spend, then they would ring me if they had to do something that would cost more and then I would say yes or no.

Glad that the mouse is feeling better, I know how worrying it can be when one of them are ill.

Not sure if I am right in this but I always thought shavings where not good for mice as it can cause eye problems and breathing problems...But not sure on that one, just what I read when I got my mice. :?

Good luck with the mice and enjoy their madness. 

:book5


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## Random Colors (Jan 23, 2011)

Just thought I would report that everyone is doing good, Argent is still acting like she used to, and she put on a bit of weight from the few days she wasn't eating much. The others are doing well too.

And I'm happy to announce that I have added to my little family. Zimt and Siyah are two new girls I got yesterday. Zimt is brown and Siyah is black. Both are very small and very cute. 8D


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

That`s great to hear Ramdom Colours, I`m pleased that you found a solution to your caging. Keep their diet good and feed as many grains and seeds together as you can. Millet spray is loved by mice too, but the seeds are oily so not too much!


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