# Nu/nu?



## Au Naturel

I have a nude mouse, she had a litter with a coated male. As I understand it, the gene is co-dominant and there are both full nudes and Lakelands (I use the term from the skinny pigs, a Lakeland the result of a mating between a nude pig and a coated pig). She was purchased as a Fuzzy but she has no whiskers and now after mating her with the coated male, I have gotten a mixed litter with more hairless without whiskers, some thin haired ones (Lakelands) and some, which seem to be fully coated at the moment.

I have tons of questions but lets start from the top, is my mom a Lakeland or a Nude judging from the litter?

Mom:









All the babies, all black and agouti ;-)









One of each:









No whiskers, just like mom:


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## Velvet_Meece

She's fuzzy, they come in many coat variations, from completely bald with no whiskers, to a fine velvety covering, moderate fuzz, patchy fur and very thick, even long coats sometimes.

Only fuzzy babies are born bald.

True hairless are born as normal baby mice, grow a complete coat and then lose it all at about 3 weeks old starting from the nose and eyes and finishing at the tail/feet.


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## Au Naturel

She's not fuzzy, fz is ressecive and nude is co-dominant. Fuzzy has whiskers, nude doesnt. These are 2 completely different genes, there are various hairless genes in mice, which all act differently (hr, fz, nu). Yes, hr is not born bald, I know that gene and have seen it since I know a breeder with that gene and I followed her breeding. Nude mice are also born hairless. My mice are the nu gene, not fz, thats 100% certain.

Since I posted this, I have read some articles about this gene and my girl is a socalled Lakeland of the nude gene.

Still looking for breeders with experience in this gene, Ive read the UK has some breeders and I talked to the Swedish breeder of it


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## Velvet_Meece

Soooo do nude mice come from fuzzy mice then? because in my last litter of fuzzies from my fuzzy line i've had for 5 years now i got 3 out of 7 babies with no whiskers or fur and the other 4 normal fuzzies...


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## Au Naturel

Velvet_Meece said:


> Soooo do nude mice come from fuzzy mice then? because in my last litter of fuzzies from my fuzzy line i've had for 5 years now i got 3 out of 7 babies with no whiskers or fur and the other 4 normal fuzzies...


I know hobby breeders here mistake nu-mice for fz-mice and breed them together which does give an issue genetically to seperate them from eacother again because fz is reccessive and nu co-dominant so you might have mixed litters to my knowledge.


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## Stina

This is NOT nude. Nude (nu) in mice IS recessive. Nude is a gene described by labs and officially uses the symbol of nu. Nude mice have no thymus and thus basically no immune system, and rarely live very long. These mice are definitely not nude....they are some other hairless gene.


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## Au Naturel

I read that too but I also read that it is nu. I can link to 2 places about the gene but both is in Swedish. That is why I am looking for more breeders of this co-dominant hairless gene that appears to be exactly like nu in so many ways. Please tell me what it is if its not nu then? Please back it up with links, thanks.


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## Stina

I didn't say I could tell you what it was...but I can tell you for a fact that it is NOT nu. Just b/c I can't tell you what it is doesn't mean I can't know for a couple things that it isn't.

This is a jax mice page on TRUE nu/nu nude mice. Unless the sites you are referencing are trusted, respected lab sites, that have described and mapped the gene, they aren't as trustworhty as Jax.
http://jaxmice.jax.org/strain/002019.html


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## Au Naturel

I know JAX. How do I figure out what it is, its not fz or hr either and thats about what I know about naked mice genes?


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## Velvet_Meece

hmm well there doesn't appear to be a name for this mutation so maybe its either an overlooked type that no one has singled out and bred specifically for or named yet.

How do you know its not technically fuzzy? how do you know without doing scientific studies on them, that they're genetic makeup isn't identical to that of a fuzzy?
Just because it has no whiskers, everything else screams fuzzy and as they come from fuzzies and produce fuzzies then maybe it is afterall just a form of fuzzy.... :|

I'm not trying to put you down or nowt, i'd like to know myself considering i produce a lot of them too, but you say you KNOW they're not fuzzies...how?

You've got one mouse and bred it once, surely thats not enough research and breeding into this type to confirm your theories.


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## Velvet_Meece

I know absolutely nothing about genetics btw.

Is it possible they could be a cross bred fuzzy to nude, though nudes rarely survive in their raw state, maybe by crossing them to fuzzy it stabilizes them? hense why when you take several of these mice and try to selectively breed them you run into all sorts of health issues and physical abnormalities and so they must have fuzzy in the line.

Just a theory, but is it possible?

What would that be nu/fz? *tries to sound remotely intelligent* :?


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## Au Naturel

Fuzzy mice are reccessive, like I said before. This isnt, its co-dominant and that is in my opinion a huge difference and that is why I know its not fz. I have personal knowledge of 3 litters from 2 mice, not just this litter and this mice mentioned in my topic. Besides that, the forementioned articles are from people breeding these for quite some time, several litters, they might not be nu, they are most certainly not fz but their mice and my mouse are the same.

If anyone doesnt have anything to help me with, Im going to look for help elsewhere instead of having to keep defending myself. Im going to email JAX and/or contact the English breeder, I already contacted the Swedish one. If anyone is interested in this variety and what I find out, please feel free to message me.

Thank you for your posts.


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## Velvet_Meece

Why defend yourself, are you feeling threatened simply because i'm showing an interest and asking questions like yourself?

I'm on the same wave length as you, we both have these mice and want to know what they are and where they came from.
I was only aware of two type of nekkid mouse in the fancy, excuse me for not knowing as much as you obviously do.


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## Frizzle

Either way it's a pretty cool looking mouse. The hairless I've seen floating around here aren't born like that, but I don't know hairless vs. fuzzy vs. anything else. There was this thread from a member located in Thailand, they had an interesting looking variation as well: http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10671&hilit=hairless&start=20

Let us know what you hear!


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## SarahY

Are you sure the buck doesn't carry fuzzy? That seems most likely to me, as the mother does look fuzzy.


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## madmouse

I have a mouse genetics book from the AFRMA that lists 21 hairless genes in detail with their development. At least 3 of them are co-dominant. One of them is call naked, is co-dominant, and homozygotes are born without whiskers. It is NOT the same as nude (that one's listed too). Do you think this could be it?


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## Au Naturel

Velvet Mouse, Im not referring to you, Im not threatened in any way, just annoyed.

Sarah, Im 100% sure and I got it verified by the breeder of the buck this morning.

Madmouse, its not that one since they are heterozygotes but its pretty damn close though so thanks for that . Mom is the naked one and dad is a regular coated one so they have to be heterozygotes as I see it. Im not sure if they are co-dominant or simply dominant so if there are dominant variations in your book without whiskers, please post those too? The co-dominant part, I got from the breeder in Sweden but I havent see proof of that yet but she has been breeding the for much, much longer, so..


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## LUX

Au Naturel said:


> Sarah, Im 100% sure and I got it verified by the breeder of the buck this morning.


 Well you can't be sure unless you mate him with a fuzzy, and no fuzzy babies appear.
Not even though the breeder says, that there is no fuzzy close by in the lines.
The gene can be carried for ages so even though the breeder hasn't bred in fuzzy, he can still be a fuzzy carrier.
So find a fuzzy female (one you're sure of) and breed them


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## Au Naturel

Im not interested in knowing if he carries fz or not at the moment but I do have a fz female if that ends up being a way, I want to travel  I am interested in know what my female mouse is though so Im going to be concentrating on her.


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## Cordane

It seems the reason they want to know about the Dad of the babes is because when you test breed to see why a particular mouse is, you breed it to a known genotype mouse. To give you and exact answer, it would be much easier by knowing the genotype of the father of the babes, it rules out multiple possibilities.


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## SarahC

the Swedish hairless originate from me.The ones I sent over were dutch marked and I see the mouse you have still shows dutch type markings.


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## Au Naturel

Mine is not related to the Swedish mice to my knowledge, the mom of mine is a pet store mice from Denmark  My mouse is a black fox blazed mouse.

Ive put a fz female with the buck of this litter so in about a months time, we will know for sure if he is fz carrier or not. My money is on no but for good arguements sake, lets rule it out or prove me wrong


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## SarahC

oh sorry,I read it (wrongly)that yours were related to the Swedish ones.They look the same These are the ones that went to Sweden.Still if they are not distantly related to yours,no point in discussing the heratige of them.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2525


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## Au Naturel

They are gorgeous  What can you tell me about breeding them, were they nu?


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## madmouse

Au Naturel said:


> Madmouse, its not that one since they are heterozygotes but its pretty damn close though so thanks for that . Mom is the naked one and dad is a regular coated one so they have to be heterozygotes as I see it. Im not sure if they are co-dominant or simply dominant so if there are dominant variations in your book without whiskers, please post those too? The co-dominant part, I got from the breeder in Sweden but I havent see proof of that yet but she has been breeding the for much, much longer, so..


Unfortunately, the only two dominant hairless genes I see listed in my book are Alopecia (a regular furry mouse who loses all hair at 25-30 days) and one called Shaven (a mouse with a "greasy, sparse, short" coat), neither of which describes your mice. I would think though that there is no definite list of all known genetic mutations, or even variations on known mutations.


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## Au Naturel

Oh well, we'll see what happens when the bubs get older and what happens with daddy and the other fz female. Thanks though


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