# Black - Color Improvement *photos*



## nuedaimice (May 26, 2010)

OK, obviously, I live in the U.S. and, while I have some UK derived stock, I mostly work with mixed stock. I have two different lines of blacks that I am trying to improve color in. One of the lines stems from a UK import line bred buck and uses Umbrous, the other descends from a well-known U.S. breeder's Extreme Black lines.

The original parents of the Umbrous line were not black at all, but a Dove Tan (Umbrous) descended from UK imports (2008) and an Agouti Tan descended from UK imports (2007). I am two generations in on this line. I had other Black Tans from the Dove Tan's line, and the black coloring was not that great in comparison. The Agouti Tan has retained more of its lineage than the Dove Tan did (the Agouti Tan was also born in 2008 - so much closer to the original UK stock than the Dove Tan born in 2009).

The original parents of the Extreme line were an "Extreme" Chocolate (may have been a carrier, this is what I was told) and an Extreme carrying Siamese. I have one doe that is bred from the same lines that was not selected for color from the original lines and I used her as an example of starter color. I just choose two does (mother and daughter) to show two generations in using the U.S. Extreme line.

Anyway, photos below:

Showing: (first oatmeal container) Longhair Black not selected for color from Extreme line, (middle oatmeal container) Black Tan Umbrous and Black Self (Extreme/Carrier?), (last oatmeal container) Black Self Umbrous daughter and Black Self (Extreme/Carrier?) daughter. *Sidenote: The Umbrous Black here has pink on her tail because she is also a recessive spotting carrier**


















Here is a comparison photo of the F1 and F2 Umbrous Blacks' tail color:









And an, unfortunately, overexposed comparison photo of the F1 and F2 Extreme Blacks' tail color:









I should go back and get a comparison photo of the Extreme vs the Umbrous to show which is darker. And I may do so later.

This was not really posted for anything more than a sharing thing. I know these colors and mice are FAR from perfect, but I like how the progress is slowly, slowly coming along. I'm breeding the Umbrous back into the line for F3s, and I'm going to be taking the Extreme line to an out cross for better heads/ear sets, and then come back in. I may, eventually, combine the two lines if I decide it would improve the color further. Right now, I want to see how far I can get on the Umbrous with just selection from within the line. (The Extremes are, technically, my fiancee's project, I just monitor them while he's gone and he tells me what he wants to do/who he wants to breed. We're interested to see whose going to get the blackest mice first).

Thanks for looking!


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Well done, it's very rewarding indeed to see progress in every generation!

Sarah xxx


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## nuedaimice (May 26, 2010)

Thank you, Sarah. Its the part of the hobby I enjoy the most, seeing how much I can improve the color/type by selection.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I have a black from my umbrous line, that seems off coloured. Do you think the umbrous blacks you have, look different than the normal blacks you have in person?


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## nuedaimice (May 26, 2010)

Not really, they have extra tan hairs since they were bred from tans, but they are some of the blackest mice here. My F1 Extreme/Carriers have a reddish tint to their coat, but I accredit this to the fact that they carry for chocolate.

The first two photos are very accurate in color. The reason the white paper is pink is because the light above them is pink also. (or maybe you call that lavender, its supposed to be a sunlamp for the flower box there, thats covered by the white paper). The flash is very close to the mice in the tail comparison shots, so it makes the photo overexposed (the 2nd much more than the 1st).

I believe one of the UK breeders on here mentioned that their blacks were bred using Umbrous, and they are as dark as any UK extremes I have seen. (It may have been SarahY... is that correct? I don't remember...)


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Well, my black was really just a fluke black, in a breeding for agouti, so there's no breeding for colour at all. I thought it might have had something to do with the umbrous, but now, I think probably not.

The black that came from my umbrous line, looks more like an ultra dark blue mouse, or ultra dark gray. Hmm.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I said we don't have extreme black here, but our blacks are certainly umbrous as outcrosses to agouti based mice tends to produce mice with a very dark stripe of ticking along their spine.

Sarah xxx


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## nuedaimice (May 26, 2010)

Ah OK. Thank you, Sarah, so has anyone ever tried breeding Umbrous to extreme Black?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I know Jack has both, but I don't think they're in the same lines.


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

I hesitate to use Umbrous in my black line only because my blacks are extremely important to several of my other lines. Once the umbrous is bred into the black I would find it hard to get it back out.


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