# Food advice much appreciated



## Jessica158 (Nov 10, 2016)

Hi everyone.

Been doing some research into the best food for my nans mice. There's very little literature that I can find, particularly relating to uk brands. However I came across home made mixes, and I think I've come up with a fairly good recipe and feeding regime. If I could have your input that would be great.

40% muesli (saw this suggested and after looking at ingredients it looks quite a good base - it's whole grain oats, barley, whole grain wheat, hazelnut and some sultanas. No added sugar or salt. No peanuts)

20% bird seed mix (containing some wheat, millet, sunflower seeds, red dari, kibbled maize.

20% dog food, which is mostly grains with a small % of meat protein.

Overall protein level: 11%

A few times a week they would have some fresh fruit or veg, and maybe once a week some dried mealworms/pieces of meat/boiled egg.

From what I can make from my research, I think this is a pretty well balanced feeding plan, but I'd be open to any comments anyone may have on it.

Also, one question - should I mix the ingredients together by volume or weight? As I think the two different methods would produce different quantities per ingredient. 
Thank you.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

11% protein seems pretty low, I would aim for around 14-16% for normal mice, 18-24% for breeding

The dog food is mostly there for making the protein content higher so 25%+ protein content is ideal but use less of it.

Volume or weight I don't think matters too much as long as its the same across all of them.


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## Jessica158 (Nov 10, 2016)

Hmm ok thank you. I think I actually got it wrong, and protein is 13%. Everywhere I read said to keep it low, between 10 and 15 for pet mice?

It's a bit confusing to work out.. the muesli is 10% protein, the bird food 11%, -and the dog food 21%.

And I've just realised my mix doesn't even make 100%!! So I'll change it to 50% muesli, 20% birdseed, and 30% dog food. That gives me protein of 13.5%.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

That is decent for purely pet mice, although I would be aware that mice love to pick and chose their food so it can be quite hard for you to really control it, you may have to adjust it as you go along so they don't just leave bits they don't like. For example sunflower seeds are very high in fat but mine love them and one or two will pick them out and get fat while the others have none.

Regarding the protein level.... its a bit of an odd case in that the first reason for the difference is people thinking mice are mini rats and in general rats can do a lot better on a low protein diet, higher protein has been linked to aggressive and health issues in certain varieties (like Harley). Also that some of the commercial foods out there (like oxbow young rat and mouse diet) are 18% protein, which is great for young growing animals and breeders but not for adults.

Mice though are not mini rats, they have a lot faster metabolisms and seem to eat/drink a lot more ounce to ounce than rats do.

13.5% is pretty good goal, but just keep an eye to make sure that they don't just eat all the dog food, or sunflower seeds, or leave the dog food etc

Also as well as the protein look at the fat levels because you don't want them too high (around 4-6%)

As far as working it out, its not too bad, so if you have your food then it would be 
10 x 5 for the muesli (since you're measuring in "parts" of 10% so it is 5 parts) 
11 x 2
21 x 3

add all of them up and % by 10 to get what you correctly worked out as 13.5%

do the same with the fat though just to double check what that is like.


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## Jessica158 (Nov 10, 2016)

Oh that's great thank you Lilly.

Hmm. Okay, I will monitor their food intake as best as I can. Should I not add anymore till they eat what's left? 
If they don't eat the dog food, is there something else I can use to raise the protein?

I just worked out the fat % and it's 5.5%.

Thanks very much for your advice!


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Hmm I tried doing that with mine, but they would just end up completely burying and mixing in the bedding so was hard to keep check.

Some mice love dog food but I have heard some people say some of theirs won't touch it. Personally I have had bad experiences with dog food, it is often recommended to get the cheaper ones but often cheaper ones in the US have a ton of rubbish in that isn't good for dogs or mice, so the only ones I could find that didn't have that were expensive.

Now I just use lab blocks and then add some oats/mealworms/sunflower/flax as and when needed. I have a ~40 though so its just easier for me that way.


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## Jessica158 (Nov 10, 2016)

Yeah I've found they stash it in their beds and hides! 
Will have a look and see what they are eating if I can. 
Yes I found a lot of cheaper dog foods have horrible ingredients. My own dog gets a very high quality, grain free, high meat content kibble - so obviously not suitable for mice!
But my nan cant afford pay that much for the dog food, so I found the best cheap kibble I could. They use only natural ingredients, so no artificial preservatives etc, and there's no "derivatives" or "of XYZ origin", just chicken and grains really. Works out around £15 for 15kg inc p+p, so the mix I made up today, totalling 3kg, only cost £4!! Better than the £6 for 0.5kg of mouse food!

Not sure what a lab block is.. don't know if I can get them over here. I guess I'll see how they go for a little while. What signs should I look out for that show they aren't getting what they need? Too fat? Too thin? Anything else?

Sorry for all the questions, it's just hard to find any resources on best mouse care unfortunately!


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Ah in the UK I take it.

I cannot really help you there and I think using lab blocks is a lot more common in the US than over there. They're essentially a complete diet packaged up with fillers into 1" or so blocks for them to nibble on.

Its a little bit of a catch though, the main ingredients are corn and soy and corn has been linked to issues, as has some GM soy/corn in other animals and mice... But then the non GM corn/soy can actually be more unhealthy because they have to spray them with a ton of pesticides.

From my experience the lab blocks do good on all but the hairless.

As for signs, some mice gaining weight while others lose it is a big sign that some are taking all of the higher fat/protein things and others are not eating much of that


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## Jessica158 (Nov 10, 2016)

Oh yes,
In the uk. Yeah we don't have those lab blocks here. Shame as they sound good! 
They seem to be loving the new food! Haven't seen them nibble the dog biscuit as yet.. but there are some nuggets out of the bowl! The pieces are rather large though. I may have to try with a puppy kibble or something!


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