# A whole Litter?!



## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

It seems that every individual in this litter has mega colon? Or something of the sort? It's day two for these pinkies, but they are just bloated! I've seen full bellies, but never anything this bad. :C
I've already found 3 dead babies as well. One seemed to be still born. It never had any food, the other was a runt that was half the size of the other babies, and the third had a belly full of gas? It seems to me that all of these babies also have a buildup of gas? Could it be bc they lack an anus and the gas is from the lack of excrement? Some seem to be worse than others, but I've never seen anything like this. Any suggestions? Should I just cull?

This is very upsetting as I no longer have a male to breed this female to, and I was hoping to keep a buck and work on my longhair line! Grr!


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

As in the culling forum if they have no anus they need culling, they will die slowley, in dogs they can have surgery to make one or are putdown.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

With megacolon, the colon doesn't function properly and becomes impacted with food, which then rots and creates toxins and gas. What variety were you breeding?


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

Laigaie said:


> With megacolon, the colon doesn't function properly and becomes impacted with food, which then rots and creates toxins and gas. What variety were you breeding?


It was a cross between my long hair black pied satin female (She also carries RY and Blue) and a poor quality brindle male. I was hoping on improvinf both brindle markings, and getting a long hair stock started. It seems that after I cull this litter, I have no chance of getting my longhair going as this was her second litter.

Her first litter she was crossed with a blue pied male satin. They were all so big and healthy babies and she had a great sized litter! When that buck passed, he was very old almost 3 years, I tried to mate her with a son to get the long hair going, but she never produced a litter with him. When I paired him with other females, he never produced either! So I sold him as a pet and went out looking for another buck. After finding this brindle whose head and ears were great, I decided to add that to my lines, only pairing him with this female. But Bc of what happened, I can only assume that the male brought this into my lines, so now he shall have to go as well. Luckily I have somebody looking for a pet mouse ^^

These babies won't last long anyway, so they'll be culled, but I feel so bad for my momma. She is the best mommy mouse ive ever had and is always so willing to foster. Hopefully I can find her a male soon and get him quarantined in time for her last breeding.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I thought megacolon usually doesn't surface until weaning age?

Are they actually missing their anuses, or was that just a guess as to the buildup? It might be morbid, but if they're lacking, please share some pictures of their genitals. It could be insightful for people facing the same problem & not knowing what to look for.


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

OK! I shall post pics then. I can't really tell if they lack an anus or not, but I can see all of the buildup inside of them. I can even see full kidneys!


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Is it possible the doe isn't stimulating them? While she did raise a healthy litter before, mice can be weird. :/ Maybe you want to test a pup, try to manually stimulate it.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

What condition is the mother in? If she is young and in good condition and you want lh I'd breed her again.

It could be genetic or from meds or chemicals if you have used any with her.

Would def be Intrested in a pic.


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

I have pictures finally! And yes, I did try to stimulate them. Nothing helped. :< I'm still waiting to cull just in case there is some hope. 
As for changes, the only change I made for this female was with environment. She has been on the same diet since I've had her, but the last few days of pregnancy I moved her to her own tank, I did the same thing with her last time as well. 
anyway, here are pictures

This is a picture of a baby that I suspect doesn't have an anus at all, it's one of several like this in the litter ( and am I crazy in seeing a fuzed urethra?)









Here is a baby who does have evidence of an anus, but this is also one of two individuals like this, and this one seems to be the most bloated.









The next two pics are just to show the evidence of bloating. 

















And this last one is just to help me identify this body part. It seems like It may be the early kidneys or reproductive organs? (sorry it's so blurry, but you can see evidence of what im talking about in other pics as well)


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

Update: Thinking that there is a large chance that I could be wrong about t eh whole thing, I made the decision yesterday that I would let them be until this morning. If I found one more dead baby, I was going to cull the whole litter. Well, the whole litter is alive, and some seem less bloated. There is still some bloating going on. Could it be that these babies swallowed air? Could it be that they all had a hard time nursing bc of her long hair and in turn swalloed air? Idk. I'm still hopeful. I'll stimulate them again. Also it seems that colors are starting to come in on the darker ones, so I may be getting a lot of black from this litter, assuming they survive?


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh! They're pinkies! Definitely not megacolon, then! Pinks can get bloated for a LOT of reasons, from the completely harmless swallowing of air when trying to nurse before the hair around the nipples falls out to the more dangerous E. coli. E. coli is unlikely, especially if Mom doesn't seem greasy or otherwise ill, but while dosing her with antibiotics isn't the best thing for the pups, the most common side-effect is less-strong teeth (and since mouse incisors keep growing, this isn't a massive concern). I'd wait and see if it goes down. If somebody goes greasy, give them antibiotics, but this mostly looks like a scare.


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

Well that's a relief! I've just never seen this kind of bloating in pinkies. I was getting really worried and scared, and as for the hair around nipples, their mother is a longhair so I could see how that would happen. That kind of bloating is quite extreme though and is pretty scary! Although, I still haven't seen any of these babies go to the bathroom :/ although bloating is down a lot. I'm still worried but if all goes well and this is just a scare then good. If anything changes, I'll post again. Let's keep our fingers crossed.


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## shadowmouse (Sep 17, 2010)

So what happened? I've been reading this thread like a Soap Opera. It needs an ending!!


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

Shadow mouse
I hate when that happens ha ha


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

I went on a trip recently and forgot about htis post. But anyway, I didn't have any more babies die! These guys grewup to be healthy and silly mice. Such a delight to hold and so cute. I ended up with almost all black babies, except two. Those two look just like their father who was questionable still, but I think I may have figured it out.
At first I thought the father was a poorly marked brindle bc his coat seems to be darker at the tips, then I thought, no he's just a muddy RY. But after he fathered another litter and I ended up with a single lilac baby, I am starting to think that he was actually a lilac based agouti. If that really is possible!


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