# Argh!



## Peteyandthegang (Jan 20, 2009)

We keep having horrible outbreaks of respiratory illness and Im at the end of my tether with it, I'm so sick of dealing with this
We keep culling all those affected, scrubbing everything down with disinfectant, leaving it to stand for weeks and then getting new stock in. (This time we even just about got rid of all mice and started from scratch) Then the new ones start up. Only they don't start in the first few weeks, oh no. Always when we've *just mated them up*  Now yet again we have a load of sneezing mice, and it's horrible. They usually sneeze for a few weeks, then get thin and ruffled, then drop dead (if left. We don't leave them anymore) and no vets treatment has worked at all, if anything the ones we gave antibiotics to died quicker

It came in on some brokens we bought months and months ago and it just wont leave us alone. I just don't know what to do anymore. It's heartbreaking when we've spent so much time, money and energy on new mice only for them all to go the same way

What would you do? The latest to start sneezing is a big cham girl who we put with a buck last week. She's gorgeous and he is too, he was totally fine before but no doubt he is now ill aswell. What a shame  I want to cry


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> Only they don't start in the first few weeks, oh no. Always when we've just mated them up Now yet again we have a load of sneezing mice, and it's horrible. They usually sneeze for a few weeks, then get thin and ruffled, then drop dead (if left. We don't leave them anymore) and no vets treatment has worked at all


I'm having the exact same illness at the moment! I culled a few that were sneezing a few days ago, they were pinched around the flanks and had staring coats. Now I've got a sneezy litter and a few more adults with a rattle in their chest. These are all new mice that I got in a couple of weeks of ago. They were perfectly healthy when they arrived, no signs of illness whatsoever, then it started to creep in about one week ago. I think the stress of moving has either brought it on or made them susceptible. My dove stock hasn't got it yet and I've moved them to a different room upstairs, I'm just praying I've done it soon enough! I'm going to take a view tonight as to what I do with the sick ones. I think I know what I've got to do though, my doves are just too important to me to risk 

But back to your original question, it could be stress that's bringing it on? Is there anything that could upset them where they are? Other animals, noises, smells? Is it damp or draughty? Have you tried changing bedding and food? I'm sure you've tried everything so the only thing I can really suggest is if you get new mice ask the breeder that you get them from for some of their food and bedding so it's not such a big change for them all in one go. Interestingly, the only one of my new mice that isn't ill (at the moment) is a buck that came with his own nest.

Sarah xxx


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## Kallan (Aug 16, 2009)

Second the previous answer: stress, bedding and could all bring about respiratory disease.

Are you restocking from the same place or a different breeder?

I would suggest sending one for post mortem and find out what pathogen they can isolate from it - it may be a bacteria resistant to Baytril. I know it can cost a bit, but its better knowing what exactly is causing the problem than continuing have to cull and restock.


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## NaomiR (Feb 9, 2009)

Kallan said:


> Are you restocking from the same place or a different breeder?


I'm guessing different breeders??

How awful for you I don't really know what to suggest, touch wood I haven't had any issues recently but (as you know) I also went through it some time ago and it wore me right down.

I culled anything that sniffed over a 48 hour period, it really is the beginning of the end. But a breeder once told me she'd learnt to work through the problem ie breed with the sniffly one then cull it - the litters aren't ALWAYS affected 

Glimmer of hope??


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

They were actually from the same breeder on the whole, me! I set Sarah up with some chunky silvers for her dove breeding, and then she's taken the vast majority of my cham tan stud as i've given those up now. Some of the tans are still here and they're fine though - I have a few does bred from two does that Sarah took, and a couple of sisters of the bulk of the does Sarah had. They must have just picked something up and spread it around themselves. Tho Sarah has told me that the remaining tans have recovered, which is great news.

I find that moving mice from stud to stud can often be a bad thing - they often come down with colds and the like as they aren't used to the conditions they're kept in or the food, and of course any germs carried by the resident mice that the new mice have no immunity to. So my rule is to assume mice from elsewhere won't get on well in my shed, and breed from the mice i take from other breeders asap. If the adult mice get ill in the meantime, i foster off the babies or split them from the mums at 3 weeks old and put the babies to does with litters of the same age. Any young born in my shed are always fine, as they're acclimatised.

Another thing that causes colds/sickness in mice is seasonal change - i find there are more sniffing, sneezing mice as the weather goes from hot to cold, and vice versa. Not much you can do about it, except stay on top of taking out the sick so it doesn't spread.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Yep, all the survivors of the new mice have now recovered now. I didn't treat them, just culled the worst and quarantined the rest to protect the doves. The silvers you gave me settled right in without a problem, and I've still got the original ones that I picked up in the beginning of May. But they were much bigger and more robust-looking, the tan does are tiny and delicate in comparison!

Sarah xxx


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

yes, much smaller than pale selfs! But it does make their eyes look enormous, doesn't it?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I do love their enormous beady eyes 

Sarah xxx


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

I do actually miss them - especially as they're doing so well at shows now! - but satins are my current challenge. Might try tans again one day, got YEARS to play with all these great varieties!


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## NaomiR (Feb 9, 2009)

Loganberry said:


> They were actually from the same breeder on the whole, me!


lol no I was replying to Petey's original thread and thought the question was asked of _HER_ about where she'd got all her mice from :lol:

anyway back on track how are things looking now Petey??


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## Peteyandthegang (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks for the support everyone, I've needed it, this has been so depressing

Sarah I'm sorry you're having to deal with it aswell, if it really is the same illness I'd definitely agree about culling anything with signs or that's been in contact with those who have for the sake of your doves, this just spreads before you even have chance to try and stop it we've found. We had a couple of sick mice in our garage at one point and healthy mice inside, and it still spread even with clothes changes, disinfecting, seperate bedding and food etc

The latest mice to come in were mostly from the same breeder (Naomi!) I know 100% this didn't come "in on" them, maybe as you say the stress of moving was a factor but it seems to me this is the exact same illness we had here before culling all the sick and even some healthy looking mice and starting over, so the bloody thing survived somewhere and decided to break out again didn't it :roll:

I don't think bedding or temperature are an issue, all our mice are indoors with the temp kept pretty constant, bedding is aubiose. Again the change in it could have not helped, but I really think this is just a very hardy virus of some sort

Anyway we have come to a painful decision now that we won't be breeding anymore until next year, when these mice have all left us and we'll have our own place so we can have a proper shed and setup and breed on a much bigger scale. I just can't go through culling every single one of our mice again, even though they're otherwise happy and young, just to start over from scratch and hope for the best. Once we have the space to breed on a bigger scale it would be worth doing this, but for now they're kind of our pets too and we've had too much pain with it (This is where hobby breeding gets stuck, isn't it) So we'll just try and make the rest of their lives as comfy as possible, and look forward to breeding mice for exhibition next year I'm still very passionate about mouse breeding so it's been a tough call, but the right decision I think, we can't deal with the stress right now and don't have the room to make culling so much worthwhile
Still gutting when we have such lovely mice! And people contacting us about them surprisingly a lot. I feel like a bit of a letdown!

Thanks loads for your tips...*Leigh*, what dosage of the kids echinacea did you use and how did you give it? 

There are also no signs of pregnancy in the cham doe, which is good news and I hope she isn't

Oh and guys, do you mind if I still hang around here? I like having sane, supportive people to talk to, which I haven't found on the pet mouse forums :?


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## Peteyandthegang (Jan 20, 2009)

Kallan said:


> I would suggest sending one for post mortem and find out what pathogen they can isolate from it - it may be a bacteria resistant to Baytril. I know it can cost a bit, but its better knowing what exactly is causing the problem than continuing have to cull and restock.


Thanks Kallan...We will definitely do that should we get anything similar when we start up breeding again next year. In the meantime we're going to try and get treatment other than Baytril from the vets, I'll have to see what they say


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## NaomiR (Feb 9, 2009)

goodness Petey I am SO sorry to hear this - I know I am really fortunate to have a specific "mouse house" and luckily for me none of the mice I bought back from London suffered any obvious distress (ie illness) but it is something that worries me especially since I lost all my siamese 

please let me know if there's anything I can do, I'm so sorry x x


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

hun ill txt u a pic of the 1 i used and dosage etc in the morning and let me know if u manage to get some x if u cant find it let me know and i can go and get some and send it to u x x


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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

sarah do u think the septrin could be given in tablet form if u broke the capsule and mixed some of the powder with water x


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't know, but I imagine it'll be better to mix the powder with jam or something?

Sarah xxx


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