# extreme black nose



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

The above mouse has a light nose. It's not yellow (the picture is tinted yellow as it was taken in indoor lighting since it's much too hot to take the mice outside), but it's a light nose nonetheless. Thus, I think he may too light to be extreme black. But I've not dealt with the variety much. What do you who breed blacks think? Can extreme blacks have light noses like this?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

It probably is an extreme black; when I got mine years ago I was told that it was a variety that needed to be 'conserved' by ensuring a homozygous genotype. May this mousie is hetero, or got his nose in a jam somehow along the way. I can't see how this mousie couldn't be extreme black with those ears.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

He could be a good black. Good blacks (not the normal blacks you see in petstores and with hobby breeders) must have very dark ears too. The very best of well-bred blacks (a/a) can compete with extreme blacks on the show table.

He carries Siamese but nothing else, as he was used to darken the points in Siamese mice.

I am interested in what our European counterparts think.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

By the way, here is his sister:










She has the same light nose.

She is only 7 weeks old so her points are still weaker than they will be eventually.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

You have a point. :lol:


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)




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## Maplewood Stud (Jan 2, 2009)

jack ur siam doe is gorgeous, my mum would pinch her


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

So breeding siamese to blacks help darken the points? And forgive my ignorance, but would she be a seal point or a blue point?


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

I think I read somewhere, that an extreme black can have a lighter nose, but dont take my word for it.
I love the siamese


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Well you know... if you don't like him... I could always take him.... :twisted:


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

All proper (seal point) siamese mice are black-based, a/a ch/ch. A very good black or an extreme black will help darken the points on a siamese mouse.


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## mini mousery (Jul 4, 2013)

I thought black was recessive if so how could you get siamese?


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

mini mousery said:


> I thought black was recessive if so how could you get siamese?


Well, this is a very old thread...
Anyway, yes. Black is recessive. The agouti gene is A, the non-agouti (black) is a. So to have black you need a/a.
But Siamese is c^h/c^h, it's on a completely different locus. As stated above, a real Siamese (seal point) is black-based, which means it is a/a c^h/c^h along with other non-mentioned genes. So parents would have to both carry a or be a/a _and_ carry c^h. Hope it made sense.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Some people insist that extreme black is unobtainable except by getting them from another breeder. I think that is utter nonsense. My own blacks are not quite there yet, but they have improved in the course of 15 years of tinkering. I think that the factors that cause darker or lighter blacks exist in so many different forms that there are as many roads as to Rome. It's in there, probably in a number of different ways.


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