# Encyclopaedia of Pet Mice by Tony Jones



## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

There is a copy of The Encyclopaedia of Pet Mice by Tony Jones on eBay if anyone is exhibiting or planning to do so and doesn't have a copy. This is getting harder and harder to find, so don't miss out if you're interested!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140951710818?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

I really, really hope this is still there in 9 days when I get paid.
Thanks for the link.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Good luck!


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

There are a number of copies, thankfully, on ebay. From various locations. Now, I've seen pictures of the cover, and thought it was hopelessly outdated (those sharply pointed face shapes...). I also worried that the photo colors would be 'fixed' in a bad way, so it wouldn't be accurate. Is that not so? Because I found a copy elsewhere, I will buy this minute, if it's still relevant. :lol:


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

ThatCertainGlow said:


> There are a number of copies, thankfully, on ebay. From various locations. Now, I've seen pictures of the cover, and thought it was hopelessly outdated (those sharply pointed face shapes...). I also worried that the photo colors would be 'fixed' in a bad way, so it wouldn't be accurate. Is that not so? Because I found a copy elsewhere, I will buy this minute, if it's still relevant. :lol:


I was told by a friend of Mr. Jones from way back, that the cover (which shows spiny mice, not fancy mice) was chosen by the publisher, not the author. There a few photo mistakes in this book, all down to the publishers knowing nothing about the subject and not thinking to ask.

I must stress, however, that this is an excellent book. With the exception of the NMC's publication of "A Fancy for Mice" by Mr. David Montgomery (also excellent) there are no modern texts, but mouse exhibiting and breeding hasn't changed since it was written, so you needn't worry about it being out of date. It's very different to "Exhibition and Pet Mice" by Mr. Tony Cooke because both fanciers had entirely different ways of doing things, but it's an invaluable resource for anyone wanting to breed and exhibit fancy mice.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Oh dear. Guess that's where never seeing, or paying any attention to, spiny mice, just got me in trouble. Well then, that explains why they look worse than pet shop mice. :lol: (Pardons to those who like spinies.) Thank you, for the information. Buying it right now. I intend to buy the others, as soon as I figure out what to e-mail to the secretary of the NMC in regards to joining, and getting the newsletter. :? I always like more viewpoints to any subject.

I also just bought : 'All About Mice' by H. Hirschhorn. I'm on an odd hunt for that 'boring' (probably just difficult to understand for me at 10 years old) book I had when I first bred mice. Hoping this is the one. Doubtful though. Whatever it was old when I read it, in 1984. However, I might have thought a 70's book was old, especially as it probably wasn't well taken care of before I received it. I think it upset me most because my interpretation was that it didn't count half my mice as being valid. (Recessive yellows.) I don't know if it said anything like that, or not. 

Still plenty more of the 'Encyclopedia of Pet Mice' by Tony Jones, on the US version of Amazon, so anyone wanting to check it out might try there too.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I see the copy I saw has been bought already :lol: As Sarah says, the cover shows spiny mice but not down to the author. I have seen a few copies on the UK versions of eBay and Amazon and they started at around £80 I think it was! So in comparison this was a bargain, and I agree with Sarah again in that this and Tony Cooke's book are essential reading


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## pauly (Feb 21, 2013)

I knew Tony well in around 1980, the ease with which he produced superb mice was amazing, he really could breed them.
I had the book at the time, I must try & get a copy again.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

ThatCertainGlow, I didn't see any more copies on eBay (US or UK) but there is one on Amazon.com for a little over $26: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00C2CYO56/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

There are a few listed on the UK Amazon from around £15 but most ship from the US! There's irony for you :lol:


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Ah, you need to change the spelling to American English in order to see all the copies. 

'Encyclopedia'.

In fact... the ones up now on the US Amazon are really low cost, if you don't care about the condition. I do (because I'm crazy that way), but I don't see how it would affect the use of the book.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

ThatCertainGlow said:


> In fact... the ones up now on the US Amazon are really low cost, if you don't care about the condition. I do (because I'm crazy that way), but I don't see how it would affect the use of the book.


I'm a librarian's daughter - condition of books is important :shock:


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## Oakelm (Oct 17, 2009)

It was me that brought it, already been posted so should see before the weekend 

I have been keeping an eye out for this among others as I love to read and this is the cheapest I have seen in this country so couldn't resist. If I ever get bored of it (Unlikely) then I will be sure to sell it on here or via NMC.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Just got mine in today.  It's in better condition than I feared, although I selected one in 'very good condition'. Seeing the cover in person, had to start laughing that I ever thought it was old fashioned fancy mice. A tiny thumbnail photo is my only excuse. Although, I wouldn't have known what they were. I'm really pleased with the book, it is quite interesting. Thank you MouseBreeder for starting this.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Well that's two satisfied customers, pretty good for a random find/thread :lol: Glad that people have found it useful.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask these questions, but I have tried searching for the answers, and haven't even gotten close. So...

Having read the book now (couldn't put it down, it was NOT information I was used to seeing), I have many questions that I hope are not hard to answer. Obviously, if any of you know if Mr. Jones changed his mind at some point on any of these, that would also be of interest.

1.) Could you really (or can you now?!?), enter shows by sending mice in some sort of rail packaging without having to be there in person? Did that work out for the mice?

2.) He stated he didn't need to provide separate water for his mice, because he fed a good bit of moist food. Now, I feed mine primarily moist food, more than even he stated doing, and they still occasionally drink from the bottle. Granted, 4oz bottles seem like overkill, as they barely use them, but they still do. Did anyone else have success going without extra water? Or did he later decide they do better with an added straight water source?

Oh, well, maybe not as many questions as I thought, but that first one... If there was some way to manage a similar thing here, it could open up so much for the US mouse fancy.

I find it interesting that he also recommended against a lot of wheat, or corn, except in very cold weather. Although he did feed wheat, and didn't specify only in winter; in the form of the milk soaked bread.

Newly impressed at those of you working with Broken, Even, and Dutch. Hadn't really looked into the difficulties of those.  Looking forward to reading the other books, too.

Side note- I do not recommend anyone bother with 'All About Mice' by Howard Hirschhorn. It was written for... maybe someone who... actually, to be honest, it's just bad! :lol: For instance, it tried to make an argument for waltzing mice being perfectly healthy. Had the same problem of random rat pictures, in the book at wrong locations. Plus some really repulsive commercial photos, and a number of dead rodents.(Same publisher.)


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

ThatCertainGlow said:


> 1.) Could you really (or can you now?!?), enter shows by sending mice in some sort of rail packaging without having to be there in person? Did that work out for the mice?
> 
> 2.) He stated he didn't need to provide separate water for his mice, because he fed a good bit of moist food. Now, I feed mine primarily moist food, more than even he stated doing, and they still occasionally drink from the bottle. Granted, 4oz bottles seem like overkill, as they barely use them, but they still do. Did anyone else have success going without extra water? Or did he later decide they do better with an added straight water source?


Yes you could send boxes of mice by rail and they were collected at the station by a member of the club and taken to the show hall. Unfortunately this is no longer allowed and hasn't been for years. I don't know about the rules in the US though.

Some fanciers still believe in not giving water bottles and feed 'pobs' - a mix of bread, milk or water and sometimes seed/oil such as linseed - as well as dry food. Personally I provide water bottles in every tank and the mice drink a large amount in comparison to their size, especially when rearing litters. I don't know if Tony ever switched to using water bottles but I can ask him next time I see him at a show if I remember.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I have just started to look through some old copies of the NMC News (the monthly magazine of the mouse club) and have come across an article by Tony Jones from November 1994. In it he states that for the last 30 years he has not given his mice water or greens. He gave pobs every evening and also says that if he was running low on 'other forms of moisture' that carrot and potato were given, and once or twice a week raw eggs were added to the pobs mixture.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

It should be noted though, that providing moist food instead of water is illegal in the UK nowadays, due to the "five freedoms" in the latest animal welfare act. Access to fresh to water is noted in there as a must-have.


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## pauly (Feb 21, 2013)

I've just ordered a copy from the states, delivery date, June 24th !

Another good book is Fancy Mice by R.S. Hutchings. I got mine from Australia on ebay. Most of the photos in this book were taken in Tony's shed.

This was published in 1969 & again he doesn't give water , just bread & milk. I would think this was standard practice at the time.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Thank you, both.

I doubt if the UK stopped allowing show mice entered by rail, that the US (which is more uptight about so many thing, with such a large population to deal with) would allow it. Ah well. I still think that being so separate from each other causes problems. If the mice that people were breeding were seen in person, at regular intervals, some of that might calm down. Plus more could breed for exhibition, instead of only pets. Increasing the quality of fancy mice in general.

Goodness, well it worked out for his mice for 30 years. I don't guess you'd get show winning mice if they stayed dehydrated. That's something to take note of for travel and such. Seeing how it's illegal now, I don't suppose you should ask him about current practices. Unless he did change to bottles, and noted any improvement.

I'm surprised they were able to digest the milk. Assuming it was store-bought, I wouldn't imagine he had/has access to farm milk. My does don't drink water unless they have had dry food items, I didn't soak the seed mix for at least 6 hours, or they were offered mealworms. 3 week old and on kittens, tend to drink a good deal, comparatively, no matter what is served. Mine pretty much reject fruits and veggies. I doubt I could hydrate them with a carrot or potato. They might tolerate some green peas, but that wouldn't be good travel food, unless the trip was short.

Pauly, I just googled that book, and the best listing was the AU, recently ended. :lol: I will keep looking though. 
That's a bit of a long trip. June 24th! Hope it gets there safely. The one I have is an American printing, in American English (color, etc).


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Tony stopped showing mice in around 2003/4 and doesn't have any now, so I believe he stopped before the law Sarah is referring to came into effect.

The milk was definitely bottled as it is mentioned in the article he wrote. Also he used to live in the London area so not many farms about! 

Good luck with the book search...


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm not telling anyone not to do it, many breeders swear by it and breeders have used it for over 100 years in England. I just meant that it isn't something that should be publicly endorsed as it is illegal now


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

SarahY said:


> I'm not telling anyone not to do it, many breeders swear by it and breeders have used it for over 100 years in England. I just meant that it isn't something that should be publicly endorsed as it is illegal now


Oh I knew what you meant Sarah. Nothing to see here, move along :ange


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## pauly (Feb 21, 2013)

My copy arrived today, a lot earlier than June 24th !

A superb book, I'd forgotten how good it was. I was good friends with Tony around 1980, & I had an autographed copy at that time.

A great pity he isn't still involved in the fancy, there is so much to be learned from him.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

He still makes an appearance at the odd show although not in the hall itself unless it's a big show shared by other fancies.


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