# Agouti Tans



## 5CM (May 28, 2012)

This is from a litter that dropped 12-28-15 where we crossed a cinnamon tan with a black tan from Tara (candycorn) so many props to her. This outcross really improved the tan, ticking and overall color and we're excited to mix these guys into our line! There are two bucks and three does.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

There are many good qualities to those mice, they look lovely! I have some which look very similar.
As with many of my agouti tans though, they are so pale, and for that reason they struggle on the show bench.


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## 5CM (May 28, 2012)

Ours are also quite pale, these guys were from a cross to a black tan so that helped darken the color but I imagine we'll need a few more strategic crosses to keep the richer color. Thank you for the compliment though, we're so excited to be making improvements


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

I've got some much darker ones, but they still struggle to rival the depth of tan achievable on a good black or chocolate tan.


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## 5CM (May 28, 2012)

Should I be aiming for darker than these guys? They are from the black and tan paired with cinnamon so I figured if I need darker I'll pair him with agouti next.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

5CM said:


> Should I be aiming for darker than these guys? They are from the black and tan paired with cinnamon so I figured if I need darker I'll pair him with agouti next.


Only if you intend on showing your agouti tans, 5CM. If they are just for your eyes then it doesn't matter a jot, but for show winning agouti tans, yes, they would want to be quite a lot darker (by which I mean the tan, not the agouti). 
The agouti isn't miles off, though could stand to be richer, but the tan is too pale. They are a difficult variety to breed in excellence. I have been breeding these for quite a few years now and I have not yet produced the depth of tan that a black/choc tan can achieve, nor have I bred a show winning agouti tan  They have won a few best tans and Best Opposite Age in Show was their highest accolade.....hence, my interest


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

Goodness, they're beautiful!


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## 5CM (May 28, 2012)

It is definitely my intention to show them so I appreciate your input! While building the type for these agoutis the tan suffered quite a bit, this is the first outcross so compared to our others this is a huge improvement but they are not as rich as their father. We're doing another pairing with him to create more agouti tans and back to a daughter to have some more black tans on hand in case we need more further along.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

5CM said:


> It is definitely my intention to show them so I appreciate your input! While building the type for these agoutis the tan suffered quite a bit


YES!!! Here is the problem I have always had (well, one of them :lol: )

A while back, I had three different lines of Ag tans. One was built for size/type and looked rather like your mice there. The other two lines, one was built for colour, and were much smaller mice. The third line was a mix of both, where I hoped to create the perfect mouse, but, as you rightly say, building the size, loses the tan.

I now have just one line that I am just breeding to be the best they can be. I'm not happy with them but they are nice. I don't believe they can be as vibrantly tanned as the self tans and I am told that this is very likely the case because agouti tans can only have ONE tan gene, whilst the self tans posess TWO tan genes.

I would ask anyone with further insight into this to lend me their expertice!

I'm so happy to have another agouti tan breeder to babble about this to. Far as I know, I am the only person in the UK actively breeding this variety, so there are no better ones around and no way to improve them quickly. I'm alone  :lol:


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## 5CM (May 28, 2012)

I don't know of too many people here either that deal with agouti tans. I have yet to get a self because of all the mixing but now we're separating agouti and cinnamon so hopefully some selfs pop out of that. I'll be posting a lot of our progress, this project has become our little baby now


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## pauly (Feb 21, 2013)

Have you any pics of yours WoodWitch, I'd be interested in seeing them ?


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

pauly said:


> Have you any pics of yours WoodWitch, I'd be interested in seeing them ?


Not to hand, no. Will try and get some decent pics soon and will post them here


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Here's one of mine. Very obliging today he was :love1
...and a picture of his (still too pale) belly.


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## pauly (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm very impressed, they're really nice. I could do with one of those to out cross into the Reds, or into my Agoutis. Lovely rich colour on the top & beautiful eyes, well done !


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

pauly said:


> I could do with one of those to out cross into the Reds


Anytime Pauly, obviously!
...and thank you for the compliments


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I've got a Woodwitch agouti tan which I crossed into the reds.He's lush,excellent breeder and fit as a fiddle.


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## micurious (Nov 7, 2015)

I can't believe that belly is too pale, it practically GLOWS.


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## 5CM (May 28, 2012)

Updated pictures of these guys, about 9 weeks now. Belly did lighten up a bit but they're getting a nice size going. Not even close to as dark as Woodwitchs mouse!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

So, American perspective on an American mouse:
That's not a bad belly at all for a US agouti tan! For whatever reason, people just don't stick with these guys as a project, even though all the pieces are readily available. My agouti tans are from a side-project to see if I could get visibly tan argente tans,* so they're no better than this. There's certainly much better type here than the best-colored tans in the US, and that does have value. Do keep an eye to your demarcation, though. A lot of Americans get so wrapped up in color that the demarcation goes bonkers.

*you can, but it's a ton of work and they're not any more striking than champagne tans, which are my twoo wuv anyway, so it's not worth it


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## 5CM (May 28, 2012)

Oh wow now I see the line of demarcation now! This is why I post, to get critiques so thank you for the input! Figures they have better tan but the line got wonky on the side and our others have a worse tan but better line. There are not many agoutis and agouti tan is even less popular here it seems. We are hoping for selfs soon though.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

If your heart's in selfs, do selfs, but...there's a lot more room in tans right now! We've got two big breeders of tans in the US, plus a couple folks who keep them as secondary or tertiary projects. Selfs on the other hand are trending again, especially blacks and whites.


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