# PEW to produce tri color



## Hillcrest

Do Iunderstand this right that a PEW is a c-dilute that can produce tri-color mice? If so what Iam wondering is if it makes a difference if the PEW is from a colored variety or a strain of mice that are all PEW? Is it best to breed with ones that have a pied or banded mouse?
thanks


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## Hillcrest

That was meant to say pied or banded behind the PEW


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## Rhasputin

PEW is the only one, I think, that cannot produce a tri-colour.


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## jadeguppy

I've been looking into this issue and found that the PEW will dilute the color of a tri to the point where it is nearly impossible or impossible to see the other colors.


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## moustress

PEW to PEW will not yield tris, only more PEW. PEW to any colored mousie that has any other c locus dilution will yield tricolors. I think it's been established that c^e c (extreme dilution plus albino) is one of the better combos for nice tricolors, and an albino parent will, of course, contribute whatever color is hiding behind the cc to the mix.


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## m137b

With tricolor you have to consider contrast between the 3 elements of the variety, the 3 colors need to be different enough to be easily distinguished. If you consider this in 2 parts it's a bit easier, first the contrast between the base color[black, blue, choc, lilac, in self or agouti] with the c-diluted color[sepia/chinchilla, mock chocolate, siamese, color point, burmese, himilayan, beige, or ivory]. There has to be a good amount of contrast between these two colors, so anything cch/cch or cch/ch[burmese] will be a poor choice because they are too dark, and will not stand out well against the black. You'll never get crisp clearly defined spots with these colors.

The second contrast you are considering is the white markings against the diluted color spots[again sepia/chinchilla, mock chocolate, siamese, color point, burmese, himilayan, beige, or ivory]. You will have to be able to see the diluted spots against the white. Himilayan[ch/c] and ivory[ce/c] are very pale in color and there isn't much contrast between them and white.

That leaves ce/ce, cch/ce, cch/c, ch/ch and ch/ce. These will provide good contrast between the undiluted color, the diluted color and the white. So the only one you can make with a pew[c/c] would be cch/c.


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## jadeguppy

Great breakdown m137b!


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## moustress

I disagree, respectfully, with m137b/ the combination c^e c gives very nice contrast. It's the best way to get isolated solid patches on white. And splashed meeces have good contrast in just about any combo, though c^ch and c^h don't always produce even coverage of splashes that match the standard. As far as contrast between the colors, they can be quite attractive in the lighter versions. A matter of taste I guess, and I'd hope any judge would rate the lighter tris on their merits as they compare to the standards.


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## m137b

moustress you're welcome to disagree, everyone has their own opinions. Do you have pictures of any ivory based black tricolors to demonstrate your theories?

I would also respectfully disagree that splashing is in no way related to which c-dilute is present, I have numerous ch/ch, ch/ce, and ch/c splashed mice that have excellent distribution of color. But I'm not sure how this is relevant as a good splashed[per standard] and a splashed suitable for breeding tricolor are very different.


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## Hillcrest

So excuse my ignorance I am still very new. What color is cch/c?
Also the c^e c?
c^ch and c^h?
ce/ce, cch/ce, cch/c, ch/ch and ch/ce?
They are all so much alike it gets really confusing to go look for the symbols and what they mean. Thanks to the person who wrote the color name and symbol. For me anyway seeing that way is the way it helps me learn in the conversation.
Thanks for all your help. The PEW I am looking at is out of a line that is a colored line that produces tri color.


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## Fantasia Mousery

c^ch = chinchilla
c^h = himalaya
ce/ce = extreme delution, makes beige, bone and colourpoint
cch/c = burmese
ch/ch = siamese

I'm unsure about the rest, but I hope this helps a little. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## SiamMeece

I agree with m137b that the albino allele is not the best contribution to breeding tricolours (in mho) so I avoid pew, bone (ivory) and himilayan for the only reason that they give too little contrast between the c-dilute and white patches. They're okay for breeding splashed though.

Burmese is c^ch/ch, c^ch/c is.....some sort of mock chocolate?


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## Cait

An albino (c/c) splashed looks like a white mouse with dirty marks on. I have some in the nest - if I have time I'll take some photos. But the short answer would be: use another c dilute if you have any choice as you're unlikely to get the results you want.


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## moustress

Hillcrest: The c dilutes are not, in and of themselves, colors, but modifiers that dilute colors in different ways.

m137b: I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about ivory based tricolors. But I can tell you that the lightest colors produce a lot of BEW's when you combine that with c^e c. You get a lot of white background with this, with spots of solid hue. Of course you also get PEW's.

I did a very specific test of my tricolor and splashed line by mating a tricolor to an albino, and got a bunch of colorful meeces out of it. That was upon the urging of the moderator of the English language section of the Hiiriforumi (sp), the Finnish mouse board, and supports my 'outlandish' belief that the whole phenomenon is caused by a spliced section of DNA added in a transgenic operation.


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## m137b

ce/c is Ivory[Bone in the UK], hense Ivory based black tricolor. Your claim is that an ivory is the best c-dilute combination for making tricolor. I was just wondering if you had examples.


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## Laigaie

If by examples, do you mean to ask her to post photos of parents and litters so you can see what she's talking about?


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## Roland

Any combination of c-dilution combined with Spl/* produces splashes mice. The only exception is albino c/c Spl/*, which does not show splashes.

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


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## moustress

Why do you ask about ivory, specifically? It doesn't matter as the key factor for tris is reversion to other darker shades, so if the ivory doesn't show well, the other hues that appear create the desired contrast. I do have pix of a litter of tris off a beige tricolor and an albino. and they certainly do show patches of different shades...what are you getting at here? An ivory splashed would have an ivory or an associated light color as a background with the other shades showing as the splashes.


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## Takuya

Well I've do a litter:

Beige tricolor x PEW and I became mices with beautifull shades.
The only thing is, all a are on agouti base.

Here a photo on one of them:

Here a pregnant female from a PEW x Beige tricolor litter









Here a male from the same litter:


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## Rhasputin

Takuya we're not saying a PEW can't produce tri colours, because they can. But an albino/PEW (c/c) will not be a tri colour no matter if it has splashed or not.


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## m137b

moustress I focused on Ivory based tricolor because you did. You stated it was the best c-dilute combination for tricolor and I disagreed. I'm not 'getting at' anything, and I think we will have to agree to disagree on this subject as it is fairly obvious we are not going to agree.

I like ivory based splashed, they are one of my favorites right along with himi based splashed, Takuya those are beautiful mice, however I do not think they provide sufficient contrast for a good tricolor. But if your only breeding for pet/hobby then breed whatever you like.


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## Roland

Takuya said:


> Well I've do a litter:
> 
> Beige tricolor x PEW and I became mices with beautifull shades.
> The only thing is, all a are on agouti base.


Sure, any combination of c-dilutions (except c/c = albino) will show splashes. The Spl/* just brings back the basic colour, which would be there if the same mouse would be C/*.

What you have shown there is A/* c/ce Spl/*. If this mouse would be A/* C/* Spl/* it would be Agouti, and if it would be A/* c/c Spl/* it would be albino.

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


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## moustress

Well, I never said anything about ivory as a basis for breeding tricolors or splashed...what I was trying to say had to do with the fact that you need to have the lighter color, caused by the c locus dilution in order to get any kind of tri or splashed at all. Having a lighter color as a base on a splashed mousie is a good thing...with the reversion being a darker shade...or shades...I've had tris or splashed with many more than two colors and white on them.


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## m137b

moustress said:


> I think it's been established that c^e c (extreme dilution plus albino) is one of the better combos for nice tricolors.


I am sorry if I misinterpreted your statement.


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## moustress

No worries. I'm sorry if the turn of the phrase sounded confrontational. I surely didn't mean to be like that.


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## Lottiz

I don't want any c(h) or c(ch) in my splash lines. I allready have it and want to get rid of it. I think their grund colour gets to pale, almost white, and makes splashes look too much like variegateds.

this is a poor himalayan satin splash buck



























this is an other himalayan splash,









this is a blue burmese splash (or colour point) with her blue mother










here are different beige splashes c(e)c(e) and c(e), maybe some burmese,



















Here is a chocolate tricolors without dilution. To dark, but can do for breeding with PEWs or BE Cream. In that pairing no tris will come out, just splash.




























I prefer splashes with beige grund colour and dark eyes so I'm using be cream instead of pews if it's possible.


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