# Dutch - Self Outcross VS Purebred Dutch



## SarahY

I took these pictures to illustrate the differences in the Dutch mice I have bred from pure Dutch lines and the Dutch which have come from a self parent.

The following two black Dutch mice are half brothers. They share the same chocolate Dutch father, but one has a self mother and one has a Dutch mother. They were born one day apart and are now both nine weeks old. You can see a lot of difference in the shape and size of these half-brothers. On the self-bred boy you can see the head is broader, the ear set is better, the ears are bigger, the body is longer and not stumpy, and the tail is so much longer and stronger - but the markings are still of equal quality and have not suffered from the outcross to an unmarked mouse. This mouse isn't a fluke, I've now bred eight self outcross litters and all of the mice have been of this standard:




























This is the same self-bred black Dutch buck with his chocolate Dutch father, who is now six months old. You can clearly see that at only nine weeks old he is much bigger than his father!





































Sarah xxx


----------



## Matt Haslam

Excellent work Sarah, the self outcross seems to be really paying off!


----------



## Cait

SarahY said:


>


Awww, bromance! :lol:

But seriously, great results


----------



## WNTMousery

Haha Cait! Yes, this is a great start to improving type in the Dutch mice. Why no one else has done this before is beyond me. I'm doing the same thing with Tricolor but I haven't had as much success as Roland so far (I think because he keep many more mice than I do and is able to breed more often). Anyway, just goes to show it can be done!


----------



## SarahC

I can see some red rosettes just around the corner.They look in fabulous condition.


----------



## Matt Haslam

MouseBreeder said:


> SarahY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awww, bromance! :lol:
> 
> But seriously, great results
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## laoshu

He looks great  
I have never bred these before, is it a recessive or dominant gene?


----------



## laoshu

after re reading that I think its dominant


----------



## SarahY

Thanks everyone!

It's recessive. The same gene that causes brokens, but selected for colour in different areas.

Sarah xxx


----------



## Matt Haslam

SarahY said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> It's recessive. The same gene that causes brokens, but selected for colour in different areas.
> 
> Sarah xxx


recessive? how do you get them in a first gen self outcross then?


----------



## SarahY

They were first gen _Dutch_; they all had a self parent but those selfs had a Dutch parent 

Sarah xxx


----------



## Matt Haslam

SarahY said:


> They were first gen _Dutch_; they all had a self parent but those selfs had a Dutch parent
> 
> Sarah xxx


ahhh ok, self parent was carrying dutch


----------



## The Village Mousery

why is there no blue dutch?


----------



## Cait

What do you mean? There are blue dutch... Black are the most popular, followed by chocolate and blue.


----------



## The Village Mousery

ohh i've never seen anyone with blue dutch anyone got any pic's of any?


----------



## SarahY

I have a couple of blue Dutch, but these were from a different experiment so the markings aren't brilliant:




























Sarah xxx


----------



## SarahC

colours come and go.Blue brokens were popular but there are none around at the moment.It requires someone to take a shine to the colour .


----------



## nuedaimice

Bravo, Sarah!

Great job! I'm looking forward to more comparison pictures. What are your plans from here?


----------



## SarahY

Thank you! My plans? Even bigger and better Dutch! 

Sarah xxx


----------



## The Village Mousery

on i love those blues have you any info anywhere sarah as how or what it would take to make blue dutch ?


----------



## SarahY

If you can't find blue Dutch, it's simply a case of breeding black Dutch to blue selfs, which makes black selfs (sometimes with tiny white markings) carrying blue and Dutch and then breeding the offspring together. There's only a small chance of getting a mouse that is both blue and Dutch in those second generation litters so you may have to breed quite a few. I was lucky, these two popped out of an experiment litter of a black Dutch buck bred to petshop piebald girls.

Blue Dutch are nice enough but I think they just look faded compared to the black Dutch. Chocolate Dutch are the prettiest though :love1 :lol:

Sarah xxx


----------



## Matt Haslam

I have to agree with you Sarah, that blue dutch look odd, but is that because the blue colour has not been refined enough?

The blue i see in blue dutch looks faded or washed out; would be good to see if someone could improve the colour a bit.

I like Chocolate dutch to look at; but lo, i am sticking to my little banded project.


----------



## The Village Mousery

Well i'd love to give these ago... i have space in my shed (new shed) lots on box's hehe so if you get a spare buck or two give me a yell sarah


----------



## Cait

Ha ha ha - you'll need all that space to give dutch a go :lol:


----------



## Matt Haslam

Kim, my snakes like dutch mice!


----------



## SarahY

> Well i'd love to give these ago... i have space in my shed (new shed) lots on box's hehe so if you get a spare buck or two give me a yell sarah


When I have some more blue Dutch I'll let you know and you can have a trio if you like 

Sarah xxx


----------



## The Village Mousery

lovely sarah i'd like that.


----------



## nuedaimice

> Thank you! My plans? Even bigger and better Dutch!


I meant more along the lines of are you going to breed the bigger buck back to more dutch or back to a self out cross and then back into the dutch again?

If you don't want to reveal your master plan, I totally understand.


----------



## SarahY

Oh I see, sorry - I realise I could have been much more specific! :lol: I'm very open about my breeding plans, don't worry 

I plan to continue my Dutch in three lines:

Firstly I'll breed the bucks from this self-bred lot to some more big self does, the biggest I have. I have discovered that Dutch buck to self doe is definitely the way round to it; the self does do a lot better at raising young than the Dutch does. This will give me black and chocolate selfs carrying Dutch for the next round in three or four months time.

Secondly, I'll breed these same bucks to their self-bred sisters/half sisters/cousins in the hope of keeping the size whilst producing better markings.

Thirdly, I am keeping a line of pure-bred Dutch completely seperate from the self bred mice. This is partly for comparison purposes and partly because I am a bit obsessive when it comes to inbreeding -outcrossing of any kind makes me quite nervous. I don't know what mixing these genes up is going to produce in the long run and I don't want to lose all of my stock if something nasty rears its head in my self bred Dutch.

Sarah xxx


----------



## WillowDragon

Good plan! Check her out! She's smart and smexy! hehe


----------



## nuedaimice

Best of luck to you! And I look forward to seeing lots of pictures in the future for a comparison (and hopefully, some show win announcements, as well!)


----------



## SarahY

Thank you! 

Sarah xxx


----------

