# unexpected fuzzies from long haired litters



## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)




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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Oh! That's a very sweet looking, rather nicely built lil mouse!


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

Hmmmm.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

How did fuzzy get in your longhair lines? This is a lovely mouse, but I can't see how fuzzy would help longhairs.


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## love2read (Aug 30, 2011)

What a beautiful boy!

Poo happens...I had Fuzzy pop up in my Texel line. Have you ever seen a Fuzzy Texel?...Talk about a nightmare!  Lol!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Laigaie said:


> How did fuzzy get in your longhair lines? This is a lovely mouse, but I can't see how fuzzy would help longhairs.


It's not planned.Mousebreeder has very nice fuzzies and she gave me a couple of long haired mice that cropped up in her line.I think they are related to her mice hence the link in the other thread.Or,as there aren't any longhaired lines that have been pure bred for decades it could be linked to feeder breeder or petshop heratige.No knowing.Can't decide whether to keep them and breed into my hairless line or rehome them,there are 2 does.The other is a satin.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

love2read said:


> What a beautiful boy!
> 
> Poo happens...I had Fuzzy pop up in my Texel line. Have you ever seen a Fuzzy Texel?...Talk about a nightmare!  Lol!


Do you have a pic of the nightmare :lol: yes poo happens a lot.Even if it is nice poo.


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## love2read (Aug 30, 2011)

They were cute, bur frightening, lol!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

they do look a bit sinister in the same way that circus clowns and ventriloquists dummies do but I really like them,especially the pink one with ears in a rabbit style.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Forgive me if I'm asking silly questions, but what made longhair mice no longer purebred? It's a simple recessive variety presenting a reasonable amount of difficulty, and with a conventionally attractive result. I'm surprised it would fall into disrepair.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

no interest in breeding them by most for many years other than hobby breeding which means lots of colours and varieties are in the mix.Not that that matters but the inevitable oddments appear ,voila fuzzies,which I haven't put in.I'm not sure what point you are getting at.I have nil interest in genetics,only in producing mice to show standard.For me a mouse bred for exhibition should produce other mice for exhibition,not randoms.However if you are starting with stock of unknown heritage you get blips.If I gave someone a trio of broken mice I would know that they would get more brokens,not fuzzies.That's my personal definition of 'pure'.If they produced fuzzies I would deem them impure.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

these fuzzies seem to be creeping in all over the place.I do like them but I'd be more than a little upset if one cropped up in my fawns or other stock


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm sorry if I was unclear. I was curious why they had fallen out of favor with the show breeding crowd, as to me they have all the hallmarks of what would be a popular variety here. I was not trying to insinuate that you had done poorly with them, or that you had added the fuzzy yourself.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

oh no,it's ok,I'm not precious about them.I know they are a longway from good quality.When they were first introduced in the 70's(I think)from lab stock they enjoyed initial popularity.They've never really fulfilled their initial promise,not really genuinely longhaired as adults similar to adult astrex I suppose.They have never been as good as the angoras we see pictured in some threads on here.There has been the odd winner .Generally though they don't appeal to exhibitors as they have little winning potential and they all but disappeared.There has been a revival of interest though but all the original stock has long gone.The new animals are from pet and feeder breeders.I got mine from a breeder but her stock came from a petshop.Teeny tiny little mice with no weight to them.I quite enjoy having a few but I've not got as far as showing one,I'd be embarassed  .I've judged some with decent fur owned by others but although they have longish fur,the animals themselves are petshop types.So that's where we are at in the UK.It will be interesting to see if anything can be made of them show wise.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

That makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate the explanation. I've been fascinated, following the NMC's diversity of varieties and which become popular and which fall out of favor. I've been trying to determine what makes a popular variety there, other than the fact that they're likely to win (which is in part a result of being a popular variety).


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I think the ability to win is the biggest part of what makes an exhibition variety popular or unpopular. It's very discouraging to keep showing a variety that continually loses. Most exhibition breeders breed purely for exhibition only.

When I had Abyssinians I became resentful of them as, even though I found them attractive, they were taking up cage space which I could have used for mice I could actually show.

When I started out my showing variety was dove self - which are hugely unpopular. I couldn't understand it because to me they are the most beautiful of all varieties (and I still think this). But then I discovered that they have problems which silvers don't have; the concentration of pigment to make a good colour dove weakens the type. Every time I'd get the colour anywhere near what it should be, the animal became poorer. I would have to outcross to silvers to get the type back and start all over again. They are expected to compete as a pale self, but in reality they suffer from the pigment concentration affecting type in the same way that blacks, blues and chocolates do, and would never beat creams, PEWs and champagnes. The pigment concentration also affected the tan vents - silvers wouldn't have tan vents but their darker dove siblings would have them. So the best doves I could produce would be riddled with faults when their silver and champagne siblings weren't. And that's why they are an unpopular exhibition variety.

My hobby is _showing_ mice, not particularly the breeding of them. Although I *love* keeping and breeding them, I wouldn't do it if I wasn't showing them. I just wouldn't see the point with no goals or competition (this mindset is personal to me, I have no problem with people breeding purely for themselves, I just need the goals and competition and something to strive for). A lot of NMC exhibitors feel the same way, which is why many of them keep varieties that have a good chance on the show bench rather than varieties they like.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

In that case the problem with longhair was that they never lived up to people's expectations, meaning they couldn't win. The judges were comparing the mice that were showed to the mice they wanted them to be, the mice they pictured in their heads, but that wasn't entirely possible with the genes available. That makes an awful lot of sense.


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

Laigaie said:


> In that case the problem with longhair was that they never lived up to people's expectations, meaning they couldn't win. The judges were comparing the mice that were showed to the mice they wanted them to be, the mice they pictured in their heads, but that wasn't entirely possible with the genes available. That makes an awful lot of sense.


It's not so much the picture in their heads, it's the standard - the standard calls for long hair, which when you look at other species, like longhaired varieties of cavie, are amazingly long and suitably impressive. Longhaired mice on the other hand are quite disappointing after the age of about 6 weeks, when the mouse continues to grow but the fluff doesn't, and no matter what sort of selective breeding you try, the result is the same - as Sarah C says to get the hair length decent the mouse degenerates to pet type, which is not acceptable for exhibition, while those with good type are merely a bit fluffier than a regular coated mouse. An adult longhaired mouse doesn't compare either anywhere near to the longhaired hamster, which definitely has a lovely long, dense, soft coat (on males). Breeding them therefore becomes a depressing cycle of no fluff/good type so can't show, to good fluff/no type so can't show. Blerghh.

Something like the American angora, however, could be shown as a longhaired mouse here and would actually fulfil the standard. I'd love to get my hands on some of those! Lovely looking hair on them.


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