# Determining c dilution genetics



## Kingnoel (Apr 23, 2011)

Could anyone give me any insight into figuring out which c-dilution I'm working with in my splashed/tricolor lines?

Would breeding splash to splash or tricolor to tricolor give me any hints as to which dilution I have?

I'm currently working with a Choc. Tricolor buck and doe and a Black splashed buck and Black and Blue splashed does. So far I've produced black, chocolate and blue babies in both splashed and tricolor by breeding splash to tricolor only.

The only thing I know about the line is it was line bred from an original cross of a "silver" buck to a chocolate Tri doe.

If anyone could give me any suggestions how to proceed I'd greatly appreciate it!


----------



## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

Do they have red or black eyes, points or no points, and what shade is the dilute color?


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

How to ID c-dilutes (based on a/a, agouti A/* based versions look much the same, just a bit weaker and streaky):

Light red eyes, pale dilute colour, brown points = Himalayan c/ch
Dark red eyes, yellowy beige dilute colour, brown points = Siamese ch/ch
Black eyes, pale dilute colour, no points = black eyed cream c/ce (also called ivory or bone)
Black eyes, yellowy beige to light coffee colour, no points = stone ce/ce (also called beige)
Black eyes, yellowy beige to light coffee colour, brown points = black eyed Siamese ce/ch (also called colourpoint beige)
Black eyes, brown dilute, dark brown points = Burmese ch/cch (also called sable Siamese)
Black eyes, brown dilute, no points = a few possible unnamed combinations like c/cch or ce/cch.

If you want to know for sure I would suggest a test breeding to pink eyed white c/c as all of those would produce different results if bred to a PEW:

Himalayan splashed/tri x PEW = PEW and Himalayan splashed
Siamese splashed/tri x PEW = Himalayan splashed
Cream splashed/tri x PEW = PEW and cream splashed
Stone splashed/tri x PEW = cream splashed
Black Eyed Siamese splashed/tri x PEW = cream and Himalayan splashed
Burmese splashed/tri x PEW = Himalayan and 'brown' (c/cch) splashed
Brown (c/cch) splashed/tri x PEW = PEW and brown splashed
Brown (ce/cch) splashed/tri x PEW = cream and brown splashed.

Hope this helps


----------



## Kingnoel (Apr 23, 2011)

SarahY, that does help. Moustress had suggested some outcrosses as being useful also. Now if I could just get my hands on a nice typey PEW. If I had to guess I'd say stone, I see no points and the base (diluted color, right m137b?) in the splashes seems closest to beige/light coffee. I'm also getting a lot of light coffee colors in the Choc. Tricolors if that's any indication.

I was hoping I could "pull" chinchilla out of them to start a Martin Sable project but doubt I'll be that lucky :lol:

Thanks all!


----------



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

It sounds like stone to me. If the chinchilla gene was in there you'd notice it because the tricolours wouldn't breed true. You get PEWs or stones in the litters, and depending on whether your tricolours were black based or chocolate based, you get black and 'brown' (c/cch) tricolours or mice which look like chocolate piebald, but would in fact be chocolate 'tricolour', but the brown areas would look the same colour as the chocolate areas.

Just for reference, the base colour is the non-diluted colour, so chocolate,black or blue in your case. That's why you'd call them chocolate tricolours rather than stone tricolours.


----------



## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

I have a himalayan splashed which has dark red eyes (as siamese eyes), there is something wierd about splashed and eye colour. She has to be himalayan as she has gotten himalayan and siameses with a siamese buck.


----------



## Kingnoel (Apr 23, 2011)

I've yet to breed Tri to Tri so I'm not sure if they breed true or not there. My splash to Tri breeding gave me all splashes and tri's, I've yet to see a PEW or stone pop up from those pairings.

The original chocolate tri's do in fact look like Choc piebalds, you have to look very closely to see the slightly lighter areas (on my foundation buck and doe anyways). The difference is more noticeable on the babies I got from them, so I did make some progress there.

Thanks again for the info, very helpful


----------



## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

If I'm right about the original source of your mice they'll have probably been bred to ECMA standards and the ECMA says about tricolor: points are permissable, but not desirable. So without having seen them, my guess would be beige (ce/ce)


----------

