# Resp disease.



## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

Righto, I don't have much spare time in the next few days to trawl through the posts, figuring stuff out which I would normally do, so I need straight answers lol.

At harrogate I bought/was given a whols bunch of mice. Half of them have resp diseases, including a lovely doe I had to cull due to her sheer condition. I'm aware that the stress of the journey would have supressed their imune system and made then vulnruble to sickness, but some of these mice were chuffling bad when i got back from the show (Katy and George will back me up here!).

I want to get rid of it. Not give it something in their water so it doesn't seem like it's gone, but it's still there, but something that will acctually help. I've called the vets and asked for them to quote me on how much a visit and oral anti-biotics would be, and they said £50. To be honest, with how precious my new and old stock is to me, i'd be willing to pay that amount, but i'd like to see what else would acctually work.

I have them on dust free bedding, and feed them on a simple diet, so I really don't think that it's allergys.

If I haven't heard anything by tomorrow morning then i'm booking a vet appointment. It was so difficult to find one that treats mice and that will offer oral anti-biotics. The others I tried said they'd give them an injection! No thankyouuu!! I'd love for my mice not to die 

Thankyou! x


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

Plus, another thing. The vet said that there's a lot of different antibiotics; for those of you that have taken you mice to the vets for this sort of thing, which one have you used, what type of condition was your mice/mouse in, did it work, and did you try others?


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

I've had respiratory problems in some of my mice over the last year and because mine are all pets I've taken each and every one to the vet to be treated. I've had some success with treatments but also some failures. I personally have come to the conclusion that good old "baytril" is my preferred treatment but at a higher dose and given for a longer period than the vets were initially prescribing. The last prescription for baytril was actually to cure an abscess in one of my mice that had always had a slight respiratory problem (that a previous dose of baytril had never completely cured). The vet prescribed two drops in the morning and two in the evening for at least ten days and it completely cured both the abscess and the respiratory problem.

Best of luck in whatever course of action you decide to take.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

Thankyou, i'll call them up today and see if they would prescribe it. How much of a higher dose did you give them?


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

Initially the vets were prescribing two drops of baytril a day for five days but on my last visit the vet prescibed four drops a day for approx ten days (this was actually to treat an abscess but it certainly worked for the respiratory problem). I would take the vet's advice on dosage though but the double dose really seemed to make a difference.


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## george (Aug 24, 2010)

do there lungs stay scarred though? even if they get past the resp probs.
i heared that somewhere but not sure if its true?


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Baytril dosed as follows:

Morning: two drops on a small 5mm piece of rich tea biscuit (let it soak in before feeding)
Afternoon: same as above
Evening: same as above

Baytril is the only licenced drug for small animals although there are others. Chlortetracycline can be put into the drinking water. I think it`s a green powder? I hav`nt used it personally, but if your blanket treating more than one animal, it might be cost effective to go with this. Ask your vet.

Baytril is always best dosed higher in mice because it does`nt do much otherwise. I`ve recently had Rosie on Baytril as she was pretty bad over Christmas and had abdominal breathing and was quite bad. She`s been on Baytril on two seperate occassions and it`s cleared the sysmptoms twice now. I used to be very sceptical of baytril, but now that the dosage has been higher, I`ve seen that it can be effective if used correctly.

Mice are very prone to stressors like travelling, changing homes and allergies/triggers like smells within their substrate or bedding, which is why these need looking at as they only act to exhasperate respiratory problems in mice. Give your mice time to settle down for a day or two without too much changing. If they are still sneezing or making audible noises, they need to be treated fast and hard.

Lung damage can occur as a result of mycoplasmal infections and drug therapy won`t kill this organism, it will only suppress it, but it`s worth treating because it allows the immune system to catch up again. It could also be another pathogen altogether, so definatly worth doing. You should see signs of improvement within a week depending on the severity of symptoms, but again, you will have to monitor all the mice and if none respond to one drug (like baytril which they should), it would be worth trying something else like Chlortetracycline if treating more than one animal.


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi - i don't think of it as resp disease - it's just a cold, but a kind of permanent one. Some of my new stock was sick by the time i got them home as well, it happens. I would cull anything that sneezes, personally. You've got breeding stock, they aren't pets as such, and you risk more stock getting ill.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Obviously you do have to consider other breeding animals if you have many. But you also need to remember that mycoplasma as a bacteria is very common (although subclinical) in nearly all conventionally kept animals. Some will show clinical signs while others cope with it. Immunity plays a big role too. If your new mice are dear to you, it would be worth puting them aside for a couple of weeks and treating them all. Culling them won`t tell you anything. It will just get rid of the problem now, but you could also use this as a learning experience for the future? If it works, then you will know what to do if you see it again in future stocks.

It is a burden on our mice I know, but always treat sneezing and audible breathing as soon as you hear it if you know it`s not just brought on by the stress of the days move to a new home and new friends. Always give them some benefit of doubt.


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

I have to agree with Loganberry on this one.

this is just my opinion and from the view of a stock holder; exhibition mouse breeder.

The stress of moving is a trigger, if the mice don't have the immune system to fight viral infections off they become like this. You only want mice in your stock that are robust enough to fend off viral infections. Antibiotics don't cure viral infections, although i understand some relief may occur from dosing with antibiotics.

Its par for the course unfortunately, at least the stock that isn't ill, you know is strong enough to cope with being transported.

I've been in the same situation myself this winter, having to cull sick mice, but what i have left are mice with strong immune systems.

good luck with whatever route you take with your mice.


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

racingmouse said:


> Always give them some benefit of doubt.


You keep pet mice - we are talking about something very different. This isn't a pet keepers forum, it's for mouse breeders, some for hobby, some for exhibition. You can leave sneezing mice, and then you can watch the rest of your stud start to come down with the same problem and end up with a load of stock you can't breed from or show. Or you can leave it and go to the vets.... nice idea when you have 50+ mice - not. Or you cull the offending mice and catch the problem in the bud. Simplez.


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

Unless you can successfully quarantine the sick mice, you are risking the rest of your stock to some degree.

also this if you are a serious breeder, you are not going to be able to use the mice for breeding anyway, knowing they have had such problems.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

I take your point guys and we are speaking on different terms as I`m not a show breeder. I totally understand your logic here. If you bring in infected animals, then you are at risk of infecting your `healthy` stock. But healthy stock can also harbour these illnesses subclinically, they just don`t exhibit symptoms. But I know what you mean about only keeping animals that can take the strain.

Mycoplasma is a bacteria though not a virus. Viruses are much harder to treat and usually won`t respond to the antibiotics we normally use anyway unless the pathogen is identified and treated with the appropriate drugs. Probably impossible to do if you keep many mice in close proximity anyway. I find it almost impossible to keep it at bay even in pet mice. :roll:


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear your mice have a damn respiratory illness, I only keep pet mice so I don't have the worry of breeding stock but I dread it nevertheless  
Just incase it helps here is the treatment my vet gives my mice when they've had respiratory problems in the past, I've not been sure if the dose of Baytril is high enough, it has certainly helped the mice recover from the symptoms of being unwell but has not always cleared the Infection, It does seem to re-occur although the mouse is never unwell, just rattling(i assume due to scarred Lungs) and sneezing on and off but as a pet keeper it certainly helps enough to ensure they have a good quality of life.
Anyhow, hope this helps. 

Baytril 2.5% - Dose; 3ml in 1Litre water. Keep in fridge, make new mix every 3 days. Fill water bottles from this for Two weeks.

Also, My Vet also prescribed Protexin Bio-Lapis , a Probiotic for Rabbits. Sprinkle a little over their food or sprinkle on damp bread(the mice liked this best!) This was because she was concerned that the Antibiotic would upset the Mice stomachs and may just help replace the natural bacteria. She said it was worth a try and I must admit I has no Problems with the Mice.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

...Or offer them as pets and let the new owner treat them? Pet owners don`t have the same issues with treating their mice because they don`t have the same worries about mortality. If the mouse dies even after treatment, then that`s fate. I agree about the prevailance of Mycoplasma infections and they are difficult to keep in check (if at all) but secondary infections can be the culprits aswell not just myco, even though that is common. It`s a personal choice.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> ...Or offer them as pets and let the new owner treat them?


I couldn't possibly knowingly sell sick mice and expect the new owners to pay to treat them! :shock:

Sorry your stock is going through this Megz. Is it your astrex? Breed and cull ruthlessly, it's the only way you'll get rid of it. If you were breeding chocolate tans or champagnes or something like that you can afford to replace stock, but astrex will be hard for you to find. You've got to look at the stud as a giant, living beast, not at each mouse individually, and do what's best for the stud.

Sarah xxx


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant let people know the mice have this issue before they offer them as pets, but free! There are individuals who will happily pay for baytril to treat them but obviously, they won`t be lining up at your door to do so! Worth asking though... you never know. If it turns out to be stress related, a pet owner could clear it up in a week with a good strong course of Baytril. But obvioulsy these signs won`t be tolerated within a mousery.

I was just saying to the other `Sarah` via PM that I totally understand the need to cull out health problems from mouseries because it makes sense to do so.


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

Luckily it takes all sorts to make the world go round. I'm sure if it wasn't for people wanting "pets" of a certain type there wouldn't be "breeders" who specialised in certain types and there will always be "rescuers" too offering a loving home to the less than perfect specimens.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

That`s probably why I`m happy to take in the mongrels of the mouse world Anne! Perfection is one thing, but there are many `not so perfect` pets out there that individuals are willing to take on. Respiratory disease in mice is usually prevailant anyway, so if your mouse does`nt have it now, the chances are it will do at some time in it`s life. Those that don`t are truly lucky.


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

racingmouse said:


> Respiratory disease in mice is usually prevailant anyway, so if your mouse does`nt have it now, the chances are it will do at some time in it`s life. Those that don`t are truly lucky.


Those that don't get infections aren't 'lucky' they have superior immune systems.

I've only had a handful of mice ever exhibit signs of resp infections, and I tend to cull immediatly without treating. I take the practice from my rabbitry, where pasturella is the issue not mycoplasma. Several years ago I had to knock half my rabbit herd [40+ animals] to get rid of pasturella when my show animals were exposed to sick animals at a show. I had to learn the hard way, had I culled a handful of my best show rabbits from the beginning I could have saved most of the others. But the rabbits that never got sick had great immune systems and were healthier for it.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

meg, the orginal breeders of your stock will be upset to hear of your misfortune, I am absolutly sure they will help you out mate. As you can see we all have snufflers, -but cull ruthlessley and keep the problem at bay. when you get restocked, get them numbers up quick mate, and the odd snuffler wont effect you. I know its very difficult at the begining stage. i am sure any of those breeders will re stock you.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm extremely tired so I won't reply to each one individually, but if they haven't improved within a week, i'm going to do some culling. I totally agree to only keep and breed healthy mice. I know that the travelling was very stressfull for them, but I can't have it spread! Especially as my Astrex numbers are low. Such a dissapointment I know, but I'm not sure what the breeder will think when I tell him-I don't want to insult anyone! (don't worry phil, it wasn't your mice!). I read one of the posts that said the person culls any mice who snuffles, and I was like that when it first broke out in my stud, untill now I haven't had a problem with it for a long time :/

After travelling such a far distance though, it's so disheartening.. I got a fantastic experience from it, but it feels like a waste of money from the mice perspective. Refund please 

I'll do a propper reply later on, at the moment i've had a VERY busy day at work, I sleep rubbishly and my eyes are closing lol. And I still have the lizzards and fish to feed before I retire to my bed... ): Silly animals, why can't they feed themselves :lol:

Thankyou guys for your support!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

In my experience, respiratory problems show up with sudden changes in temperature and barometric outside even though the temp in the mousery is kept pretty constant. Exposing the meeces to actual wide fluctuation in their habitat is even more likely to cause respiratory difficulties, especiallly exposure to temps lower than around 60F. Of course, mine are largely American pet type mousies, and they aren't generally as hardy as your English show meeces.

I agree completely on the subject of using larger doses of antibiotics. Mousies have such a rapid metabolism that it only makes sense. In my experience one hefty dose twice a day does more good than three of four smaller doses.

I've had pretty good success using Benadryl or a generic substitute (diphenhydramine HCL)j in the children's liquid form, added to drinking water 1 tsp. to 4 oz. water. For immediate dosing, painting it on their head and front legs does quite well also. It's a benign drug that that at the very least does hurt, and it does help my with meeces who have chronic problems left over from respiratory infections.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> I'm not sure what the breeder will think when I tell him-I don't want to insult anyone!





> After travelling such a far distance though, it's so disheartening.. I got a fantastic experience from it, but it feels like a waste of money from the mice perspective. Refund please


Unfortunately it happens. A lot. I've had a lot of mice die within the first three weeks of arriving in my stud, many other fanciers will say the same. It's no-one's fault - mice are not strong animals; they are small, weak and easily stressed.

Sarah xxx


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

i've had this happen myself, luckly the breeder was awesome about it and relaced the stock lost even though to be honest it wasnt his fault. On another note i have one of your astrex doe's here with me  she had a litter to a chin buck and had 3 pups all which have curls 1 doe 2 bucks, (miss u has had some problems with getting down here so they are still with me)


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

I am sure you will keep strict quarantine between the new and old mice, right?


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

me? nope they share the same air space as all my stock, i dont put them in the same box's with my older stock till i'm sure theres no mite's but otherwise theres no quarantine...


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

Artuntaure said:



> me? nope they share the same air space as all my stock, i dont put them in the same box's with my older stock till i'm sure theres no mite's but otherwise theres no quarantine...


Good luck


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