# Tans



## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok.... I was bad and purchased a Brindle Tan to go with my Black Tan and Blue Tan line, but it is a replacement for my pied dove that doesnt go with anything.

Can you breed any tan together or do the rules still apply to the color of tan. ie black to black


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Strictly speaking you don't mix up *any* colours unless you really have to. Using black tans as an example, you may breed a good black self in to darken up the top coat and reduce the tan creep (when the tan starts to spread into other areas, ie over the whole of the foot and behind the ears), but generally speaking the best way is black tan x black tan. Mixing other colours in causes a whole mess of problems: you'll get all kinds of colours popping up in your litters which effectively gives you less black tans to choose from, a good dark black cannot be achieved if it's carrying every other colour, and you'll make no improvements.

If you're really serious about improving your black tans I would suggest you breed your black tan/fox buck to your two tan does and starting with those litters *only* keep and breed black tans, discard/cull every other colour that pops out. One day you'll have a line of true-breeding black tans.

If you're not bothered about making improvements then you can enjoy the variety of colours that pop out! 

Sarah xxx


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

It depends on what you're trying to improve.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

hmmm... welllll as i purchased Rhasputin's Pied RY buck, and his brindle tan..... :roll: :lol: 

I guess for right now.. would tan to tan still keep tan or would it ruin the belly color?

But... My purchases werent just becuase i had this in mind...

I currently have.. (minus what i am replacing with these 2)

Black Doe, Blue Tan Doe, Pied Brindle Agouti Doe, Golden Agouti Doe, and a Seal Point Himi.

My litter has a Black tan* (pied i think)

Therefore my new Sets could be...

Black Tan Buck, Blue Tan Doe, Black Doe.

Pied RY Buck, Pied Brindle Agouti Doe, Brindle Tan... and maybe my Golden Agouti.

Therefore i would dispose of (so to speak) my Pied dove doe (which threw nothing but solids..) and maybe the himi buck once i breed him to one more doe.

As i said i dont have room for everyone and these 2 above really dont work granite my buck is a good breeder and i hope good things from his son. (i may keep him until im sure his son is a good breeder.)

Did i do good this time???


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Tan to tan would keep the tan, but in order to make better tans, you really need phenomelanine, which i may have spelled wrong, and which is really very very absent in the american fancy. Dominant red can improve your tans, but there are very few people (we're talking like, 5) with it in the US, and i hate to say, I don't think they'll adopt to you.

For the piebalds, I think you're working towards broken markings, right?
I wouldn't worry about colour too much in that case. Getting the markings in the right place, is more key than having them be the right colour. It's east to go back later, and change the colour.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

eh. not to much i just was going to use those grouped as the RY would work with them i think.

And Im not worried about any more mice i pretty much got myself where i want to be for now and if i want to experiment i can always cross the tans just to see what i would get. and if i dont like then i can always find homes for the offspring or cull them.

I may eventually work on perfecting the marked but right now im not too worried about it i may just focus on the tans for now and as my does/bucks get older or as i see ones that are better i will slowly replace them and keep moving forward.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

For tans, you need to bring in more mice. You really can't improve the tan, without having mice with better tan, or dominant red.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

well i could just improve on top color at least. make the blacks darker and the blues richer. and maybe work on the agouti tan with the RY buck... to see if it would clean it up any


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

You can definitely improve your black and blue. 
Watch out for mealiness in blues. It's where the colour looks kind of speckly and blotchy. It's really annoying!


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Oh, also, breed away from pink toes in both varieties!


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

ok. no pink toes. what about white lol my black tan thing has white feet (not pink white)lol i will take pics this weekend and post him on here as his eyes are starting to open too  then maybe we can decide what he really is lol


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Is he's got white feet, then he's technically piebald. That may be difficult to breed out. :?


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

ok. well whats wrong with pied tans?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Oh, well nothing if that's what you'd like. Roland on here, has lovely piebald tans.
I don't believe they are showable, unless they have a specific pattern though.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

oh ok  I may have to browse his site to find these lovely pied tans 

ah thats ok too i think i may not worry about showing as there arent enough shows this side of the US but at least mine will still be close to standard color wise on the non-pied.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

SarahY said:


> Strictly speaking you don't mix up *any* colours unless you really have to...


I like this answer!


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

Well in a perfect world i could do that 

So what causes the blotchy/ mealy look in blues? and what would you breed to clean it up


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## evansrabbitranch (Jan 2, 2011)

I was told to get better blues breed blue to blue or blue to black but only keep the best blues. Hope that helps!


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