# What can I create?



## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Buck:

SHS Beige/Stone

Also perfectly resembles Satin Flower Mice's boy, if you need a better photo!









Doe:

LHS recessive yellow (my assumption) or undermarked brindle
(her coat doesn't look long haired anymore)


















Babies:

3 females, presumed black, blue and BEW or bone?









My goals will depend on what I can do with these, I think. I am quite smitten with satin so I'm all set there. Colour, however, I don't know where to go and don't have much choice short of going to a reptile expo (it's this weekend) and checking out the feeders. I culled the bucks, unfortunately they were all my pink eyed babies so I'm uncertain what c dilutes are carried. My first thought is to let Tully rest a month after weaning, and breed the same pair again hoping I'll get some pink eyed females. I would like to keep the BEW (or whatever she is) because that's the variety I've been lusting over for years. But I'm unsure if I should keep the black and blue. Would breeding them to their father reveal anything else? I've read blue really only should be bred to blue so I'm a bit lost as to what I can do with the girls, or rather what my options are. What do you think?


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## sys15 (Nov 26, 2011)

_if_ your male is ce/ce and you want something close to bew, just pick up an albino female somewhere and breed the f1s back to the male.

blue based ce/ce are very attractive, imo.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

So these guys can't be put to use? I'll have to post a photo later today but we've got some gold playing around here. Satin is never easy for me to capture and it just got harder. The blue girl looks agouti in some places/angles.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

If you're breeding blue mice to show then, yes, you should breed blue to blue (or black if needed to darken ears/toes/tails) but if you're breeding for your own enjoyment then you can breed whatever you want! 

Your babies could be anything at this stage, so you are going to have to wait until the hair comes through properly if you want to make proper plans. I can see agouti ticking on their shoulders, don't know if that's something to do with the light or the camera or if it's actually there. To me it looks like you have an agouti, a blue agouti, and a pale unknown.

I can't be much more help than that at this stage, except to say that if you like the sire's colour, breeding any one of these does to him will produce more.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I don't think there are any shows in my province, so I'd be breeding for fun!

The male is lovely, yes. I'm not super keen on agouti, rather the agouti in Canada. The red based agouti is incredibly gorgeous (but I haven't seen red here to cross her to). Although I can see the girls looking similar in shade now, the blue agouti shoulders is mostly on the camera rather than with the naked eye. Why did I choose satin again? 

I really like the doe's yellow, so I may end up just doing another pairing with the same two, but I'll wait another few days for these guys to give me a better idea of what they're hiding. BEW or bone is all I'm asking for from this trio! Thanks so much!


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Another pairing with the same two could be useful, especially as you're getting a clearer idea of what you may need. Also, you could pair the blue bub with the male when she's old enough. You could get some stunning silvery pale bubs. I'm not sure what you could do with the blue agouti, if that's what she is. Agoutis are a totally different variety, and not really compatible with what you've said you like - ie, BEW or mice like the stone male you have.

I'd also pair the pale doe with the father when she's ready. Again, you should get some nice bubs in the colours you like.

With the F2s, and a second pairing of the original pair, you could end up with nice foundation mice for both a yellow line and a stone/BEW line. Both of these varieties are very pretty imo.  The challenge then would be to improve type.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm definitely thinking about grabbing a PEW female as I spotted a couple of satin longhaired ladies today. So crossing one of them with the beige would = bone, yes? If the PEW is genetically something else, would anything other than bone pop up too? Also, would a black eyed RY being bred back to her dad create bone at all? Attempting to minimize bodies here. 

I'm also really interested in the c-dilutes, as confusing as they are, so I'm not sure if I should snatch up a coffee coloured doe as well or maybe that's something that will pop up during a second pairing...?

Thanks so much everyone for helping me figure this stuff out! It seems I have a very small pool to work with so I'm attempting to get creative.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

MojoMouse said:


> With the F2s, and a second pairing of the original pair, you could end up with nice foundation mice for both a yellow line and a stone/BEW line. Both of these varieties are very pretty imo.  The challenge then would be to improve type.


I thought I'd revisit this thread, in particular this quote, because I found it rather funny it took me about four months to formulate this as my tentative plan, going forth.  Clearly, I need to listen to you very carefully! The one difference is I'd like to put the long haired coat as a priority. Unfortunately that will be awfully challenging as I have no good specimens, nor have I seen any in person. Ah well, this will evolve I'm sure.  Also tough to select among pinkies when it's a trait that pops up weeks in. At least the current pairing is a step in the right direction. ^^


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Haha! Even I don't listen to me.  Seriously, that's really exciting that your plans are evolving and you're starting to establish the direction you want to take with breeding. Long haired satin are so beautiful! The colours you are thinking of are also amoung the prettiest, imo. What you say about selecting for additional traits besides colour can be challenging, especially things that you can't see with pinkies, but even with reduced litters you should still get enough good long coats to selectively breed for this. How exciting!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

MojoMouse said:


> Haha! Even I don't listen to me.  Seriously, that's really exciting that your plans are evolving and you're starting to establish the direction you want to take with breeding. Long haired satin are so beautiful! The colours you are thinking of are also amoung the prettiest, imo. What you say about selecting for additional traits besides colour can be challenging, especially things that you can't see with pinkies, but even with reduced litters you should still get enough good long coats to selectively breed for this. How exciting!


I'm shaking my head in disbelief (again) that I lost sight of this plan you set for me. A BEW/bone/beige line and a yellow line. My current situation has landed me with the bone/beige grandfather and granddaughter. A pet store far, far away just got in a satin yellow today which I'm going to grab regardless of gender to reinsert a little variety. But the foundation buck is still the most beautiful male I've seen in person so it's looking like I'll be pursuing exactly that - two lines, if the yellow is female at least. They'll likely merge as I don't have enough cage space to truly have two lines but we're definitely looking at two litters here. I'm admittedly kicking myself for not keeping my blue baby as I'd love to see smoke, but maybe down the road. 

I will drop the LH though. My doe was a beautiful long haired baby, just like her mother, an improvement even, but now that she's 5 months old she simply looks scruffy. Back to SHS I go!

p.s. I am right in assuming breeding the beige or bone grandfather to beige or bone granddaughter will simply produce more of them, right? Not going to shock me with a litter of black?


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Yep baige to bone won't give black lol. Ce,c bone ce,ce baige so you will get both.


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

I saw pics of some stunning recessive yellow standard satins recently, but unfortunately can't find the link. It was a European breeder. I think RY is one of the most underrated colours, maybe because currently the best it can be is a gold, not even close to the red Ay mice. But good selection would improve the colouring over time if more people worked with them. (I also like the gold colour!) If we had that gene in Aus I'd totally be breeding them! We only have the Ay mice, and I just won't breed them because of the obesity issues.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

You know, my second generation is a tiny bit obese! Their mum is RY. And two of them are RY. And they're a little round. Not sure if it's the diet or what but I don't THINK we have lethal Ay here...o.o

I did a basic Punnet square of beige x beige, beige x bone, and bone x bone to cover my bases. At least this would reveal, at the least, if both are bone or not, haha. I don't mind the blonde version of Ay either, which is more likely given the diluting effects of my beige/bone mice.

A very large snow storm hit Toronto last night so I'm not sure I can actually get to the pet store.  Cross your fingers for me!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Just a brain bending question for anyone who has time on their hands...

So I understand the outcomes of breeding my beige or bone mice together. The ce/ce or ce/c squares make sense. However, how does the d locus come into play? For example, the buck threw a blue in both litters, one of them inbred, so he must be D/d right? Thus I assume his beige/bone daughter must be as well. If this is true, can I ask why blue wouldn't show up in their litter? *total genetics newbie*


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## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

good luck getting to the pet store with the weather


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

> For example, the buck threw a blue in both litters, one of them inbred, so he must be D/d right? Thus I assume his beige/bone daughter must be as well. If this is true, can I ask why blue wouldn't show up in their litter?


If your buck throws blue but doesn't show it, he is D/d (a carrier). His offspring will have a 50% chance of getting one blue (d) allele. Unless the dam was d/d or D/d, then the odds are higher.


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