# Belly-stretching



## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

One of my recent mom-does has started doing something I've never seen any of my mice do before. She keeps 'stretching' out her belly, and it honestly looks very strange. This started just today, but since yesterday she hasn't been keeping up with her grooming. She looks very greasy. She eats and drinks just fine, but the stretching worries me.

She's being kept with two other does, one who is also a mother and the other expecting babies soon (hopefully tonight, ARGH. She's HUGE). The three females get along great, and each take turns feeding the babies of the first two moms.

I'd take a picture of the belly-stretching, but I really don't want to disturb her any more than I already have. I took her out, placed her in my hand and gently rubbed her belly/sides for a while, which she didn't seem to mind. After putting her away, she went right back to that weird stretching.

Is this something I should be concerned about? Because I really feel like it is.


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## Mc.Macki Mice (Nov 24, 2012)

One of my females did this before when I put her in with a male, she would stretch all the way then bring her rear back up to a normal position, I believe she was scent marking/in heat. Your female might possibly be in heat and is telling the other females to which can also cause them to get on there cycles, see if she continues to do it throughout the week.


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

I really hope that's all it is. I've never seen any of my other females do this, though. But she's usually a very clean mouse, so I don't understand why she stopped grooming herself... she looks terrible.


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## Mc.Macki Mice (Nov 24, 2012)

Maybe she feels she doesn't need to. lol she could just be a stuck up mouse..I'm pretty sure though she is not in critical danger..


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

Pandapop anything your mice do out of the ordinary is certainly cause for concern, whether that is a major concern depends on various things.

Belly stretching is an indication of slight discomfort and whilst feeding kits may just be due to length of time the doe is spread out over the kits whilst feeding has caused stiffness for which she is relieving herself. The other thing I can think of is possible worms especially if been feeding any kind of dog/cat food for the additional protein.

Have you noticed anything else she is doing out of the ordinary aswell?


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

Other than just appearing very lethargic every now and then, and the 'stretching' and greasiness, I haven't noticed anything else. I don't feed my mice dog or cat food, only mixed brands of hamster/rat/gerbil food and lab blocks, with the occasional cucumber slice and such. I checked up on her again just now, and she isn't looking any better. I didn't see her do the 'stretching' bit, but that doesn't mean she isn't still doing it. My third doe finally had her babies, and the other two mom's are currently feeding the bubs while this girl is in a nearby corner, eyes half-shut and not moving much.

I tapped the glass to get her attention and she thankfully responded. She then turned her back to me and I think is trying to sleep now.


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

When was the last time the doe was wormed, if it was more than six months she needs to be wormed again. Does sound to me as you were right to be concerned as besides the stretching the greasiness of her fur and lethargy are signs of other underlying problems.

Greasiness in the fur if I am not mistaken can be caused by too much protein in the diet. Stretching and lethargy could be worms. Without knowing the ingredients of the lab blocks can not rule those out as a source for the worms like dog and cat food.

If you are able next time you handle the doe, feel for any unusal lumps or bumps within the abdomen, there is something not right and only you or a vet will be able to tell if there is anything out of the ordinary.

A picture might also help if at all possible without disturbing either her or the others.


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

If she has worms, wouldn't the other two does get it? As well as the babies? She's the only one experiencing these problems. Now I'm ever more worried. There are no small-pet vets around here, so taking her to the vets is out of the question... and even if they were, we are tight on money right now and can't afford a $100+ vet bill.

It's 4:41am and I just checked up on everyone, since I can't sleep anymore. She seems to be doing a LITTLE better than yesterday, but it's still early, so I'm keeping an eye on her. She and another mother are sprawled over their babies, and she was grooming the other mom a bit.

The last time I took her out to rub her belly, I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. I'll try again later today after they've finished feeding the little ones, and the bf has gone to work (don't want to wake him with all the cage-clattering). I'll also try to get a decent picture then, too.


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

Personally I think it is worms but keeping an open mind for other possabilities. The risk of the others having worms aswell if the other mums have not been wormed in the last six months then they too may also have them, I am not even sure if it is safe to use ivermec on nursing does, personally I would not use it without veterinary consultation. I have found over the years in breeding many mammals that worms do develop on nursing mums more than none nursing some more heavily infested than others.

I would monitor the weights of the mice on a regular basis as this can be very useful in determining if any kind of problem is about to happen, regular slight weight loss over a period of time indicates worms, larger weight loss/gain over a shorter period of time indicates a more serious problem.

I work on a 1g tolerance in either weight loss or gain in a 7 day period before looking at possible causes if it is on a regular basis except with pregnant does where a 3 - 5g increase in weight is common place. Then again I spoil my mice and colonies are fed according to the requirements of each individual with strict worming every six months.


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

No pictures yet, since the lighting is so terrible. But she's perked up a lot, and she's now grooming herself like she should be. She looks MUCH better than yesterday. She's still eating and drinking regularly, and when I put my hand into the cage she'll come over and hop into it like she used to. I felt her belly again, and still nothing strange to report.

Right now as I type she's climbing around upside down on the screen cover... boy these mice can jump, lol.

I feel pretty optimistic about her condition now, but I'm going to continue to watch her throughout the day.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

how long ago did she have her litter? I'd say the not grooming her self is a sign something is up add the stretching and reasont litter it could be there was something left inside that has now been expelled. or it could be she is getting over worked with the pups who many are there.


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

She had her litter on the 5th of this month, but I had to remove her from the nursery cage... she and another mother were 'fighting' over a baby. They both wanted to nurse it. Well, the baby ended up torn apart. I had to put it down. I also found out that she ate the entire litter my PEW had. So now I'm wondering if the 'belly stretching' had something to do with being so full with baby parts.

She's absolutely fine now. She looks like it never happened in the first place. 
Just really unfortunate that she turned out to be a bad mother.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention that I'm pretty sure she also ate most of the other mom's babies, too. Not all, but most.
Figures she'd plan it on a night I was away. I would've stopped it asap if I had know and been there.


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## Leaflyn (Oct 21, 2012)

> The other thing I can think of is possible worms especially if been feeding any kind of dog/cat food for the additional protein.


I'm curious as I've been feeding one of my does one kibble of dog food daily, how can they give worms?


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Eating another doe's litter before delivering her own, doesn't make her a bad mother (if she didn't eat all her own as well) just a rotten room-mate, as some does are reported to do this, before their own litter is born. Perhaps to remove any competition for milk/resources. Or if she feels for whatever reason, that she is lacking in protein herself. Probably wouldn't ever house her with another doe who is pregnant, and might not breed her again if it wasn't necessary. Especially if she's not able to do well on what you are feeding her, when the others does do fine.

Worms in dry cat/dog food... I doubt it would be a problem if you do a full 48 hours freezing (in small portion bags, like quart) at zero degrees Fahrenheit (-18 C), and then thaw for 24-48 hours. Then re-freeze for 48 hours. That should kill off anything living in the feed, along with any eggs/dormant insects that hatched/emerged during the thaw. I do the same with grains, and seeds, as the same sort of things can get in them before they arrive at your home. Harmful worms, not just pantry pests, have been reported in dry feed (like roundworm). I can't imagine how those would get there (and then stay long enough to cause harm), but the freeze/thaw/freeze should take care of that too. I've also seen recommends to just worm animals regularly, as a precaution.

-Zanne


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