# Black, Blue, and Dove



## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

I have finally made my decision! yes yes I know you all never thought this day would come! :lol: :lol: Please Please Quiet Down so I may continue :

I have finally decide to do the following colors

PEW

Blue

Dove

Black

(and pied of those and tans if the pop up on occasion)

I figured those are the easiest colors as i mean cmon who can mess up white? and black as well. lol. Plus it seems like it will be a lot less headache. But i still may keep the occasional odd ball color just to throw into the mix and see what i get. 

BUT-----!!!

Can you breed Blue and Dove without issue on ruining the Dove Color? And could White Be used to lighten the color if needed?


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## george (Aug 24, 2010)

hi, i breed blacks, doves and working on blue fox. we also have a few pews.
pews are no good for lightening other varietys.
people feel free to correct me if im wrong but a silver is best used to lighten a dove and a black best to darken it.

black best bred with black. or chocolate if nothing else is available. you can breed a black with a dove but it will take a while to get the proper black depth back.

i would only breed a black or a dove with a blue if its to improve the blue, not to improve dove or black. im sure you can breed blues into dove and black, there are just better colours to use because black and dove dont want the dilution gene in blue


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

I was told to breed blue to dove then take that generation back to the dove and that would give me silver... (i think thats what i was told) So If i do that and i do get silver would silver and dove be ok to mix constantly?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Silver is pink eyed blue.

So you'd need a mouse who was blue a/a d/d and pink eyed p/p.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

Well i will be getting a Dove buck so i wont have to mix the blue and dove. and i can use the black to blue just to get a blue buck


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

You'll have to mix the dove, and the blue to get silver, unless you have another source of the p/p gene. 

Just make sure you can tell the difference between the ones that turn out dove, and the ones that turn out silver. There's only a slight difference in colour.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

yeah i prolly wouldnt be able to do that lol


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

:lol: 
It's a little difficult. But the silvers do look more blue, where the doves look more gray. Silvers are also lighter typically.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Just to clarify... do you mean Dove by AFRMA's standards (dark eyed mouse that shows both blue and choc) or by the rest of the worlds standards (Pink eyed Black)?

And are you planning on breeding to standard?

If that is the case, then yes, PEW is a good colour to work on, as you will not have to worry about correct shade and tan vents/ears etc...
Black is not easy by any means, unless you are starting with very good stock, you always have to be on the look out for tan and white hairs, and poor blacks tend to 'rust' when they get older.
Blues tend to be mealy (have uneven, almost ticked looking fur) and doves can have the same problem... personally i wouldn't breed them together unless i was looking to produce true silvers, but it sounds like you are so go for it 

Most silvers in the UK are actually very pale doves. I know it has been said on here that breeding white in won't lighten colours... but I do believe that carrying albino (C/c) does lighten colours.

W xx


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

We mean pink eyed black dove.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

well here are my dove and blue how are their colors?


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

the dove looks more like a poor silver and the blue isn't blue. could just be the camera and lights.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

then what would you say the supposed to be blue is?


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

jessierose2006 said:


> then what would you say the supposed to be blue is?


no idea. looks slighty agouti, grey mmm hard to say. If you know it is genetically possible to be blue then it may be with a whole load of other stuff going on.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

well i bred her to an argente and she threw Golden Agouti, Black, Dove/Silver, and Argente or RY


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

and you said my dove really isnt dove? she is a sister to the blue is there any way to know for sure?


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

pretty hard to say really what variety she is with all those genetic combinations going on. a 'not very pure anything' i would say.

right because you've got mice of very mixed genetic background its hard to say exactly what they are; so we have to go on looks, which is what happens on a show bench. the dove looks too pale to be a dove and the blue isn't blue. I stress the word 'looks', because ultimately thats all that matters.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

so then going off looks. what would be best to breed to a silver?


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

jessierose2006 said:


> so then going off looks. what would be best to breed to a silver?


another silver.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

lol ok. well whats the main difference between Dove and Silver as i might have another silver in a litter i got out of my blue looking colored misfit.


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

all you need to know is here

http://thenationalmouseclub.co.uk/selfs.php


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

If your blue is a blue, it must be carrying everything under the sun to make it that colour :lol: It does look like there's some kind of umbrous agouti thing going on with it. I think your dove might be champagne as well...

Saying that though, the pictures aren't great. If you could get better pictures, and more than one of each from various angles, it would help us help you.

Sarah xxx


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

SarahY said:


> If your blue is a blue, it must be carrying everything under the sun to make it that colour :lol: It does look like there's some kind umbrous agouti thing going on with it. I think your dove might be champagne as well...
> 
> Saying that though, the pictures aren't great. If you could get better pictures, and more than one of each from various angles, it would help us help you.
> 
> Sarah xxx


nicely put Sarah, Champagne???? god my eyes are bad, but like you said the pictures aren't great.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Yeah, dove looks like cham, or really poor dove.
And the blue is definitely carrying all sorts of things, and looks really mealy.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

:lol: It looks cham to me! It looks too pale and too warm to be dove. I could be wrong of course; it's not easy identifying varieties from photographs!

Sarah xxx


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

but it has a blue hue not a gold hue like i thought chams had. idk and they are sisters so yeah i am sure thats why i got the variety i did out of the blues litter and since i got agoutis i will prolly get ALL agoutis out of the Dove/cham/silver as i bred her to an agouti LOL oh well


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