# My Only Litter Born in the Last Month



## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

None of my mice will breed, its getting very annoying. Here is my only litter at the moment, 5 does and one buck, the buck is the chocolate tan rumpwhite.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Those rumpwhites are lovely! 

Can you think of any reason why they wouldn't be breeding? Do you keep any other species of animal near them? Is there any electrics near by that the noise would disturb them? Could you be having a problem with wild rodents/ other animals coming in?

I mean, there is always one or two mice that just won't produce, but to be not producing on a group scale like that, there must be something effecting them.

W xx


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

I cant think of anything, they are kept in a safe enviromnent in my garage, I thought they would be breeding like rabbits at the moment because the weather is warm but mild which is perfect for them. I think Ive really just been unlucky with the few bucks Ive kept becoming too old and the new ones Im trying to replace them with are not fertile. There are signs that they appear to be mating normally, ive seen a few plugs. I have had some health problems a month or so ago with lots of mice dying form scours., but they are all healthy now. I have just got a new group of bucks which have reached 8 weeks so have introduced them to the does, if I dont get any babies from these pairings then there is obviously something going on.

I had a period in November last year where I didnt get any litters then all of a sudden there were hundreds of litters at the end of decemeber, january and february now its been a steady decline to nothing since then. I think I may have a few pregnant does now but to be honest its just as likely that they are getting older and are fat.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

I love the rumpwhites!


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

They look delicious!

I know this sounds unorthodox, but have you by chance treated them with any tetracycline or other -cycline antibiotics? My vet told me that these antibiotics cause permanent scarring on the fallopian tubes and while it's so slight that it wouldn't affect a human or a dog (or even a rat)'s fertility, it's just severe enough to make female mice infertile because their fallopian tubes are so tiny to begin with. In humans, the fallopian tubes are about the width of a pencil or smaller, so in mice they're almost microscopic. Most people (and most vets) don't seem to know this.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

No, but interesting to know!

I have only ever used mite spray and athletes foot powder for ring worm on any of my mice.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Ive had 3 litters born today, all from different bucks. I wonder what happened 3 weeks ago which made them all suddenly get in the mood. So I now have a new chocolate/champagne rumpwhite litter, another rumpwhite litter which hopefully has a few dove tans in and a litter from my favourite broken buck, unfortunately its only a test litter, im hoping the doe is carrying broken so I can get some brokens but if not atleast I know all the babies will definately be carrying broken so might be able to keep one or two if they are big.


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

supercute! i love the choccy babies  xx


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Lovely babes! Rumpwhites are super


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

So things have completely changed with my breeding issues and now everyone is reproducing at such a rate I cant keep up. Ive got 12 litters in the nest and several does about to drop. Im really struggling with space and time (and my own organisation) I think its because this is a backlog of nearly 3 months worth of does giving birth.

So I am going to ahve huge numbers of surplus so please contact me if you are looking for either interesting mixed hobby mice (i have lots of babies) and also show line rumpwhites. If anyone wants rumpwhite bucks please let me know asap and Ill keep them, I wont be keeping any surplus rumpwhite bucks unless they are requested.


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Hiya,
on the subject of rumpwhites, i went in the mouseshed this morning and your lovely black tan rumpwhite was sitting on a collection of babies!!
Congrats, you're a grandpa :lol: x

By the way would love some more of your rumpwhites, i have really fallen in love with them


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Thats really good news, the buck must have worked very quickly, I think I introduced them less than a week before the show. 
Your black tan doe is the litter sister of my doe which won B.O.A Marked at Enfield. I got a rosette through the post the other day, I would have gone out of my way to collect it ff I had known I had won one. You should in theory have a mix of blacks/tans and chocolates/tans, the top markigns will show about 3 days foir blacks and 4 days for chocs, the unders take ages to come in in tans it can be about 7 days. I find it very frustrating waiting for the unders to come in, I always get my hopes up about babies with great top lines then the unders come in crap, its all aprt of the fun I suppose


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

She is such a sweet mouse, and very friendly. I think i counted 7 babies so well done her!
Well done for he show result  
By the way are the cham doe and choc tan RW carriers?


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes they are from rumpwhite parents, they technically dont have the rumpwhite gene. Do you remember me saying it was a lethal homozygous gene meaning all the foetus that inherit a rumpwhite gene from each parent die in the uterous, which is why rumpwhites generally have smaller litters (7 or less is normal). So all the rumpwhites which are born have one rumpwhite gene and one 'unmarked' gene. Even when you have a rumpwhite x rumpwhite litter you will have rumpwhite and unmarked mice in the litter. The cham and the choc does are what has happened however they seem to still be carrying some kind of modifyiers which means if they are put to a rumpwhite buck they will produce better rumpwhites than if you put a proper self doe to a rumpwhite. Does that make any sense?


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

So if i am getting the hang of this,
RW to RW will produce roughly 25% smaller litter due to lethal gene, and around 30% of existing litter will be self and rest be RW.
RW to self will produce normal size litters due to no lethal gene combination, and around 50% will be self with the rest RW.
Phewww :?


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Thats right yep, so in theory you will still produce the same number of rumpwhites but will have less surplus selfs with rw x rw. Also the quality ofthe markings are more consistant with rw x rw.


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Yipeeeeeeeeee some of the huge wad of mouse genetics i printed off is finally going in!!!! :lol:  
I feel like i'm back at school studying for exams.
I have several copies of the mouse genetics chart all around the house to try and get it to sink in!


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

There used to a fantastic website which had a cahrt with links to each varieties genetics, its finnmouse, its associated with the finnish mouse club. The chart hasnt worked for ages but there is some handy info on there and i thinks it written in an accessible way.

The thing I found really useful is writing basic genetic codes out for each of my mice just the common colour related locus, a,b,c,d and p to start with. the c locus is a pain in the arse.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

ian said:


> The thing I found really useful is writing basic genetic codes out for each of my mice just the common colour related locus, a,b,c,d and p to start with. the c locus is a pain in the arse.


Amen to that!! hehehe

The c locus is great if you need it in a variety you are breeding, but such a pain if you don't... its an infiltrator thats practically impossible to breed out!! hehe

W xx


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 
Yep thats what I printed out and have been reading over and over and over and over.................
Why is c locus a pain in the arse?


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

the various c locus genes aren't really colours in themselves, they are modifiers of colours... so for a simple example:

If you are wanting to breed, say, really good chocolate mice, and the stock you get in carries any sneaky c locus genes due to daft breeding in the past, can you imagine how annoying it would be if you paired up two of your *best* chocolates, in the hopes of getting gorgeous choc babies, and instead you get PEW's, or extreme dilutes, or even worse... siameses! *growls*

Don't get me wrong, those varieties in themselves are lovely (I love PEW myself) but its not what you want when planning to better the stock you have!! Diluted and pointed mice can be a real pain in the butt lol

W xx


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