# Info on Siamese Smoke mice



## Gracegarden (May 30, 2012)

Is anybody familiar with this variety?
I believe it was imported about 15 yrs ago (to the US.)


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

Are these the mice you're talking about? viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13652 I recently got a pair of does at the Rodentfest in PA. I don't know much about them myself. I will be test breeding them in the next couple months.


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Reverse siamese are quite common in Australia. Is there anything in particular you wanted to know about them?


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Reverse siamese is unrelated. We're looking at a funky gene that seems to have accidentally been spread through a bunch of people's siamese and makes the undercoat white.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Any photos?
Could it not just be himmi if it's body is white


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Wow, they're pretty mice. Very unusual.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

These mice are mostly chch, though some reported examples show black eyes, and could be ch/cch. Body is not white. Points may or may not be darker, and they've been seen in black, blue, chocolate, and agouti. No matter the color, only the tips of the hairs are colored, and the undercoat is white. The undercoat on the black-eyed animal was not as white.

Gracegarden's amassed a really very impressive amount of info and photos from a bunch of different breeders in the US who accidentally got these, several of whom are doing a series of test breedings in order to determine whether smoke is simply a modified siamese gene, a separate gene that is only apparent when the siamese gene is present, or a separate gene that is apparent with any c-dilution, whether it's dominant (over regular siamese) or recessive, etc.

Gracegarden's also tracking the mice back to their original breeder, having found all the American breeders who've passed it on.

And PPV: the other thread has photos of some of the darker examples.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

Gracegarden: the project you are working on, that Laigaie mentions, sounds great. I am very curious about these guys too. Are your info and photos publicly available anywhere?


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Ch/cch makes Burmese, wasn't sure if the thread linked was the same as the op was talking about. On that thread the pics look like they they could be agouti based, so agouti Burmese A.A ch.cch 
And as they say on there some breeder get albino I'd say they are
light body one red eyes is agouti himmi A.A ch.c
The darker body white under coat black eyes Is A.A ch.cch
The ones with a lighter body white under coats black eyes are A.A cch.c
As the c dilutes effect yellow pigment the most so the yellow band on the agouti goes white and the black bands also get diluted. Could also be blue dilution playing an effect causing the more Smokey shade.
I'm going with A.A as if they all end up like that. Test breed to a non agouti self not c diluted to test for agouti.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

PPVallhunds: with my smoke mice I'm planning on breeding the pointed "heterozygote" to an a/a himi buck and the "homozygote" to a black buck. Both bucks are from my own lines so I am sure of their genetics.

How does this plan sound?


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

The one to the black will tell you if they are agouti based or not. I would imagine on a himmi it would be hard to tell agouti or not.

If you end up with some black babies from the black breeding they will carry any recessive dilutes from the mistory smoke, so id breed them together and see what effect you get.
I think the black will give you a better idea as its no diluted by anything so you won't be mixing in other dilutes.


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