# Emergency Plans for Natural Disasters



## YuukikoOgawa

Out of curiosity, has anyone else had to seriously think about how to handle all of their animals (especially their rodents) in the event of a natural disaster?

The topic first caught my attention when I was on here asking for tips on how to build a secure shelving set-up for holding plastic modified mouse bins. At first it was solely an issue of preventing my cat from tipping them off the shelves, but I noticed when I casually mentioned the need to secure the actual shelving unit to the wall itself, I seemed to get a whole lot of responses that sounded like "...huh? Why would you need to do that?"

Then I remembered this is a UK-based forum, I'm from the Pacific Northwest, and what I've been raised to think of as normal, everyday concerns might not be seen as a normal concern at all to people from other parts of the country, or the world.

So I'd like to hear from others, from all over, what sort of major issues they've had to think about regarding housing their mice (and other animals), and how have you solved the issue? Has anyone else had to seriously consider what they might do with their animals if they needed to evacuate? What sort of natural disasters or just natural weather phenomena in general does everyone on this forum have to deal with?

It's kind of interesting to hear what people living in other parts of the world consider "normal." Here, in the Pacific Northwest and Western Washington State in particular, we have fairly routine windstorms that cause power outages, to the point where during the winter months (late September all the way through early May) picking up extra unscented candles at the grocery store and unplugging all the electronics as soon as you spot lightning is something we don't even really think much about. We also have about half a dozen active volcanoes (not something most would associate with our region), so earthquakes, mudslides, ash, and tsunamis (in Puget Sound and Lake Washington especially) are an ever-present concern. Especially earthquakes; I was raised with the idea that securing furniture to the walls was something automatic, that you had to make some kind of pathetic excuse if someone noticed your bookshelf wasn't secure and asked about it. So I keep finding myself staring in confusion when someone says they don't understand why things need to be secured, because my first thought is always "well, obviously you don't want that shelf falling on you WHEN the next quake hits." Also, I've noticed people who were raised in this area tend to avoid having large glass decorations above eye-level, but when I go to houses with people who moved from elsewhere in the country, they've got fancy glass picture frames and decorations way up high on the walls or on the edges of staircases and other areas that have me instinctively edging along the opposite wall and trying not to walk underneath them.

So...what sort of concerns are considered "normal" for anyone else?


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## Splash of Satin

Hi

For me personally living down in the southern part of the midwest we tend to have hurricanes (well many possibilities) in the summertime along with frequent heavy showers in the winter months so personally we have two sets of cages for each buck and groups(of does). we have the large bin cages for everyday life but we also have stacks of carriers for easy evacuation. we also have all of our main cages up on tall heavy tables or shelves in case of flooding as we are only a few feet above sea level.

Its interesting that for separate parts of the country the definition of normal is so different as what we do down here is very different from what you do up there...


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## andypandy29us

Im from the uk and now feel very fortunate .... I have to prepare for cold winters but not as bad as a lot of my american and canadian friends, we have had a few earthquakes here but not one thats ever made furniture move or even wake me up when its during the night .... Its been windy here but my plastic greenhouse has always survived so I have no concerns about my house .... I have made no plans what to do with my mice in case of an emergency as there has never been a need so far (touch wood). I dont envy you all the extra precautions you have to take x x


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## YuukikoOgawa

> we have the large bin cages for everyday life but we also have stacks of carriers for easy evacuation. we also have all of our main cages up on tall heavy tables or shelves in case of flooding as we are only a few feet above sea level.


What kind of carriers do you use? Part of my concern has been "how the heck am I going to wrangle a colony of frightened rodents into carriers in the first place?" I was hoping maybe having them in those modified plastic bins would make it easier to just grab the entire bin and not have to switch them all into carriers in the first place, but I haven't met anyone else with enough earthquake experience to bounce that idea off of (we need more fanciers in Japan on here, they'd know a lot more about that subject since they're in a similar predicament).

Thankfully, flooding around here is usually fairly mild. The media likes to make it sound like Seattle is the rainiest part of the USA, but the reality is that I'm pretty sure Texas gets more rain per year than we do. We just feel like we get more rain because we have this constant light gray drizzle going on. I can count on one hand the number of times we've had major flooding in this area; the major flooding tends to be concentrated further up the mountains, because that's where all that snow melt is going to hit first. Even then, I was more worried back when I was living in my previous apartment (which was below ground level). I'm currently on the second floor, in an apartment complex that's built into a terraced sort of hillside, so hopefully we're far enough up the side of the river valley that flooding would be at a minimum (though we're still literally right next to Sammammish River, but she's usually fairly mild).



> Its interesting that for separate parts of the country the definition of normal is so different as what we do down here is very different from what you do up there..


It is! For example, it's interesting to note that the precautions you take for dealing with hurricanes and flooding (like taller, heavier bookcases) are the exact opposite of what we do here, because the taller and heavier objects would be actually more of a hazard during an earthquake. We generally tend to favor furniture, buildings, etc. that are sturdy but lightweight, that won't shatter on impact (which is why we tend to favor hard plastic over glass), can be easily secured, but can also be reasonably expected to move WITH the motion of the quake and thus cause less damage by providing less resistance (as opposed to causing less damage during a storm surge by staying put). It's hard to imagine how we would balance everything if we had to build things for both quakes AND hurricanes; where's the balance between flexible and sturdy?



> I dont envy you all the extra precautions you have to take x x


Don't worry, we're used to it. 
Like I said, people who are raised in certain regions (like me in the Pacific Northwest, or Splash of Satin in Texas) are so used to certain types of weather that we don't even really think about preparing for it. It's just something you do without a second thought, like me picking up extra unscented candles and cheap flashlights at the grocery store, or my sister stocking up on those pocket hand warmers in case the power goes out and her snakes are getting too chilled. It's when someone doesn't remember to prepare, or something beyond the usual happens, that everything goes catastrophically wrong.

For example, Seattle's weather is actually very mild, despite how far up north it is. Winters are wet, but usually not freezing, and summers are likewise not too hot (though we do have that one week in September every year where the temp shoots up). The downside is that this leaves us woefully unprepared when the weather does something unusual. Most buildings here do NOT have any air conditioning, because normally that would be a huge waste of money. So when we do have an unusually hot summer, it is well and truly miserable for everyone. I figured out how to keep the mice cool in those summers by putting cheap ceramic tiles in the freezer and then placing them in one corner of the bin, so the mice can sit near it to cool off and then move elsewhere when they've had enough. But usually, opening windows is more than enough to keep things cool.

The winters are where it gets really messy though. It very rarely snows, so when it does, most of our infrastructure isn't set up to handle that sort of emergency. Also, the systems other parts of the country take for granted don't always work as well here because of how varied the terrain is. We get mocked for not being able to drive in the snow at all, but that's because we're concerned about patches of ice that might be hidden, and there's always a body of water close enough that no one wants to risk taking a freezing plunge into a lake or river after hitting a patch of ice. We've also got a lot of hills; not as bad as San Francisco, but bad enough that the last major "blizzard" we had (in 2005-2006) I recall spending several class periods (I was in high school at the time) just sitting there with nothing to do because half of our teachers lived on Queen Anne Hill in downtown Seattle. That hill is so long and steep that if it ices over it won't matter how good at driving in snow someone else; NO ONE is allowed to drive or sometimes even WALK up or down it. It's THAT dangerous when it ices over.

It also amazes me when people whine about the state trying to expand the light rail system. Efficient and wide-spread mass transit is pretty much the only way to successfully evacuate a city of millions on short notice (Sakurajima is fantastic at this, they even have yearly drills on it because they expect that volcano to go off fairly regularly); using only personal vehicles leads to disasters like the Hurricane Katrina fiasco. Also, Seattle's that tiny middle portion of the hourglass; where are the anti-transit folks planning on putting roads for more cars?! There's just physically no room left.


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## Miceandmore64

We hae already had earthquakes. 3 years ago...the mice are fine


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## YuukikoOgawa

By "earthquake," what level of quake are you referring to?

Anything less than a 5-6 on the Richter Scale doesn't count by our standards here.


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## Miceandmore64

A 7.3 and two 6.3's yeah your probably used o it where you are but still we werent.


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## YuukikoOgawa

Where are you from again?


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## Miceandmore64

New Zealand


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## YuukikoOgawa

Ah, well, that makes a bit more sense then. I was under the mistaken assumption that you were from the UK, and I know they haven't had any earthquakes of that magnitude in several hundred years.

As I said, my main concern with the mice in the event of an earthquake is the possibility of the current glass tanks falling off the shelves and shattering, possibly when a person or another of our pets are standing in front of it. The fact that my cat was able to knock one off fairly easily implies that no, they would NOT be safe during an earthquake at all.

It doesn't help matters that the entire region is criss-crossed with several massive faults that lie very close to surface (look up the Cascadia Subduction Zone), and much of our major population centers are built on soil from previous volcanic eruptions (particularly Tacoma and downtown Seattle). That sort of soil tends to amplify what earthquakes we do have, hence the need to make sure things are secure and avoid putting large glass objects above eye-level.

I've also already lost one of my best bucks to a lingering head injury caused when his (glass) tank fell, and so far the plastic bins seem to do a much better job at avoiding those injuries.


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## Splash of Satin

I just use the little plastic carriers (Kritter Keepers) that you get for like 7 dollars at Petco. For my purpose the carriers work well since i can easily stack them safely in the car with no worries of any escaping. As for getting them into the carriers i just simply pick them up but i have always left a week or so before the hurricane is expected to hit land to avoid the absolutely terrible traffic as being in a car with many mice, 2 gerbils, 3 dogs, 3 rabbits, 3 other humans along with as many of our belongings as we can fit in the car doesn't make for two pleasant of a trip. now for you the carriers probably wouldn't be the best plan as it seems practically impossible to put tons of scared mice in carriers like you said, but you also have much less time to prepare for you natural disasters while we have weeks to get ready and leave. but it would be very interesting to see how fanciers in japan deal with their earthquakes, maybe someone should look into that as i'm curious too! 
Oh yeah flooding can be a problem here since we don't get rain too terribly often and when we do we get inches of it at a time so flash flooding tends to be a problem in places. Its cool to hear that even though you get a constant drizzle you don't worry about flooding. Its good that your river is mild, a frequently flooding river doesn't seem to great to live by!

Having to prepare for both earthquakes and hurricanes would be practically impossible! I dont think i could do it, but if you had to prepare for both how do you think you would work that out?


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## Miceandmore64

Yeah I hate tanks apart from for my fish (der)


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## rocketmdove

The only major concern here that we have had to deal with is tornados. we are just inside the tornado alley :| and... well truthfully other than stuffing as many of the mice into critter keepers i can carry... i really dont have a plan  i guess I should come up with something knowing a town over was destroyed a couple years ago... yep. lots of tornados. we have a river close by that tends to flood but luckily for us we are up hill and dont get hit too hard. I have only heard of one major flooding event (a little before I was born) where it was literally swimming in your street kinda deal.. my mice are on the 2nd floor so I hope that solves that issue. the house catching on fire? *cough cough* lets hope that doesnt happen. you made me realize how completely un prepared i am.


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## YuukikoOgawa

Don't worry, rocketmdove, you're not the only one having that feeling...the Oso mudslide is part of what got me thinking about it again, and every time we hear about Mt. Rainier or Mt. St. Helens belching smoke everyone in the entire state starts getting nervous.

There's also been a lot of arguing about public transportation lately, and I'm honestly surprised that NO ONE has considered making a pro-transport argument by pointing at New Orleans's Ninth Ward and saying "THAT'S what happened the last time a city depended on only personal vehicle to get everyone out during a natural disaster! Now look at Sakurajima (another active Decade Volcano) and compare how THEY handle mass evacuations! Look, TRAINS!!!"

Not to mention geography. The land Seattle is built on makes it PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to widen or add any more roads, let alone parking for a growing population.


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## rocketmdove

Yikes .-. well actually I forgot to add- we have a few major earth quake lines that have been dead for years... the longer they are inactive the more punch they pack when they awaken. its a scary thought considering we rarely get earth quakes and would be totally, completely unprepared


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## FranticFur

Here in FL we have hurricanes, I had a wild mouse colony living at my window and they all washed away. It was terrible. In the event of a natural disaster like that one again (and it will) I'm catching them. Theres a nature reserve close to where I live and they take in orphans/injured animals so that would save the mice. As for my mice i'm sneaking them with me to a safe house lol.
Can't imagine would it would be like for a breeder to loose all their work if a fire or lighting had struck their mouse shed...Now i'm paranoid...


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## rocketmdove

share your lines around with people so you dont loose your progress completely. thats a tip I was told for emergancies. Share the mice! lol. that way you can take a few back from other people who had your line and try to start over


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## YuukikoOgawa

What rocketmdove said! Sharing lines is also very helpful for making sure that genes that are difficult to breed don't go extinct. Sure, outcrossing might ruin the color or markings in the short term, but at the very least, as long as you have the genes necessary for them available you can always selectively breed them back up to par.

Also helps avoid problems with breeding trends, like how there's no non-splashed c-dilutes in the western USA anymore. Literally ALL OF THEM have splashed! So now I'm working with a couple other more local breeders to try and breed the splashed out of what we currently have and share some lines of non-splashed c-dilutes (especially siamese), so at least there'll be a handful of people who do indeed have some available regardless of what's currently popular.

One of those breeders has actually made it her sworn duty to breed as many color/marking/coat varieties as she can, so that she can supply any other nearby breeders with what they need (I'm on the list for some satin blues for my lavender project and at least one RY doe for my fawn project). They tend to be lagging way behind in type, but at least that can selected for over time. Can't do much at all unless you have the actual genes necessary for the color and markings you're trying to breed. :/

And oh goodness, yes, the paranoia about those fault lines! I think one of the main factors though is whether or not there's a hot spot nearby, how active it is, and exactly how the fault is set up (subduction zone, rift fault, etc.). I think I read that subduction zones are the most dangerous, which is what we have under Puget Sound and what set off the earthquake and tsunami that devestated Japan not too long ago (subduction involves one tectonic plate getting shoved right underneath another one and causing the top plate to crumple). Not to mention the volcanoes...we know Mt. Rainier is due to erupt. We have NO idea exactly when, only that it's gone off about once every century or two...

On the bright side, at least we don't have to worry about Yellowstone. A volcano that size would give off plenty of warning for decades before it actually went, because it takes hundreds of thousands of years for something that big to build up enough heat and pressure to blow, AND it's venting some of that pressure already via Old Faithful.


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## mich

Down in Tasmania we have very bad bush fires and it makes breathing difficult so I really have to lock all windows and doors to stop the smoke smell coming into the house. Also lots of flies as well(especially you get a lot before a fire). Still having problems with flies now and it's Autumn. If I have to get out quickly if there's a fire I just make sure I get all the animals out with me. Its rather scary but those fires can travel extremely fast. I'm not that far out of town either but have a lot of bush near me.


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## bellamousey

This topic really gets me thinking. When I lived in California it was earthquakes and now here in Texas it's tornados  My numbers are very low currently as I'm just getting back into mice. As such, I'd probably just grab the RUBs as-is and throw them in the car. If I had more though... How very unprepared we are. I hate Kritter Keepers as I can never resist the instinct to grab them by the handle even though I KNOW they like to break even with very little in them as my little yellow bellied slider hatchling can attest to. Has anyone made very small RUBs to use as carriers? I can't think of a reason that shouldn't work, right? I think this is a great topic btw. It deserves more attention.


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## YuukikoOgawa

mich said:


> Down in Tasmania we have very bad bush fires and it makes breathing difficult so I really have to lock all windows and doors to stop the smoke smell coming into the house. Also lots of flies as well(especially you get a lot before a fire). Still having problems with flies now and it's Autumn. If I have to get out quickly if there's a fire I just make sure I get all the animals out with me. Its rather scary but those fires can travel extremely fast. I'm not that far out of town either but have a lot of bush near me.


Speaking of breathing difficulty, are there any techniques that you've found helpful when dealing with ash? Like air purifiers (or humidifiers)? That is one of the worries we'd have to deal with here in Seattle when Mt. Rainier erupts (it's not an "if" at all, though there's always the possibility of Mt. St. Helens going up first). Judging by the local wind patterns and what happened in the 1980s when Mt. St. Helens erupted, most of the ash should head east instead of north (towards me), but it's still a concern.


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## YuukikoOgawa

bellamousey said:


> This topic really gets me thinking. When I lived in California it was earthquakes and now here in Texas it's tornados  My numbers are very low currently as I'm just getting back into mice. As such, I'd probably just grab the RUBs as-is and throw them in the car. If I had more though... How very unprepared we are. I hate Kritter Keepers as I can never resist the instinct to grab them by the handle even though I KNOW they like to break even with very little in them as my little yellow bellied slider hatchling can attest to. Has anyone made very small RUBs to use as carriers? I can't think of a reason that shouldn't work, right? I think this is a great topic btw. It deserves more attention.


The main plastic modified bins (they're not RUB brand specifically) I typically use are about 15 quarts/14 liters, and those have successfully held an entire litter of half-grown mice (and their mom) in a pinch (don't worry, I moved them out to other containers pretty quick after that).

I also picked up a set of four Sterilite Clearview Latch bins at Target that are about 6 qt/5.7 liters. They look like they might be just big enough to act as decently sized emergency carriers. The plastic itself is reasonably thick, and they had them in multiple colors including a vaguely transparent lime green color that I got. The more opaque shades might be especially helpful in keeping the mice calm during an evacuation. The size is also small enough and light enough to be easily carried and stacked, while still providing enough room as long as they're only used as temporary homes. And of course, latching lids are always a must!

Do you have one of those tornado basement thingies? Sorry, I have zero experience with living in your region so I have no idea what is "normal" there. If you do, maybe set up some sturdy shelving ahead of time, that's the right size so all you have to do is grab a stack of bins and just slot them in?

I would also suggest maybe getting some bungee cords of different sizes, so that if you have to stack a bunch of bins in your car while evacuating, you can use the bungee cords to secure them better so they don't go tumbling about every time you stop too fast.


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## bellamousey

YuukikoOgawa said:


> bellamousey said:
> 
> 
> 
> This topic really gets me thinking. When I lived in California it was earthquakes and now here in Texas it's tornados  My numbers are very low currently as I'm just getting back into mice. As such, I'd probably just grab the RUBs as-is and throw them in the car. If I had more though... How very unprepared we are. I hate Kritter Keepers as I can never resist the instinct to grab them by the handle even though I KNOW they like to break even with very little in them as my little yellow bellied slider hatchling can attest to. Has anyone made very small RUBs to use as carriers? I can't think of a reason that shouldn't work, right? I think this is a great topic btw. It deserves more attention.
> 
> 
> 
> The main plastic modified bins (they're not RUB brand specifically) I typically use are about 15 quarts/14 liters, and those have successfully held an entire litter of half-grown mice (and their mom) in a pinch (don't worry, I moved them out to other containers pretty quick after that).
> 
> I also picked up a set of four Sterilite Clearview Latch bins at Target that are about 6 qt/5.7 liters. They look like they might be just big enough to act as decently sized emergency carriers. The plastic itself is reasonably thick, and they had them in multiple colors including a vaguely transparent lime green color that I got. The more opaque shades might be especially helpful in keeping the mice calm during an evacuation. The size is also small enough and light enough to be easily carried and stacked, while still providing enough room as long as they're only used as temporary homes. And of course, latching lids are always a must!
> 
> Do you have one of those tornado basement thingies? Sorry, I have zero experience with living in your region so I have no idea what is "normal" there. If you do, maybe set up some sturdy shelving ahead of time, that's the right size so all you have to do is grab a stack of bins and just slot them in?
> 
> I would also suggest maybe getting some bungee cords of different sizes, so that if you have to stack a bunch of bins in your car while evacuating, you can use the bungee cords to secure them better so they don't go tumbling about every time you stop too fast.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the shifting ground makes underground shelters a no-go for most people here. I really do like the shelving idea though.


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