# There's a New Kid on the Block!



## CareBear and Min (Nov 17, 2011)

Aloha! I am new to FancyMiceBreeders.com and would love to know if any breeders live in Hawaii on the island of Oahu. I am looking for a Chocolate Brindle Male, and want to know how to breed one! I would also love to know if anyone knows how to breed/has a 'dumbo mouse' for sale.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

:welcome1 good luck with your search.


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Hi and Welcome!


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## Viry (Oct 31, 2011)

Welcome and good luck


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## Jeannot (Jul 30, 2012)

I grew up in Hawaii (local boy, born and raised). In 1994 I imported a number of pure-bred English fancy mice into the state. As far as I know, these were the first and only exhibition mice imported into Hawaii. I sold very few of these animals. The varieties imported were PEW, ivory, champagne and tan, black and tan, chocolate and tan, seal point and blue point siamese, and seal point and blue point himalayan, in standard and longhair. The siamese and himalayans were English/American crosses but were bred to English standards of conformation. A handful of animals were sold to pet owners but they were always sold in single sex groups. One litter was given to the Honolulu zoo to be incorporated into their feeder mouse colony, however, that colony is long gone.

While English fancy mice have very large ears (noticeably different than pet store mice), there is no mouse variety called "dumbo." There is a "dumbo" rat, which has ears set lower on the head than a normal rat, however, the ears are not larger than those on a normal rat. I imported Hawaii's first dumbo rats around 1998. However, I didn't like the variety and stopped breeding them without releasing any into the pet market. The dumbo rats now in Hawaii come from later imports by others.

There was a great deal of interest in keeping fancy mice and rats as pets in Hawaii, however, there was little serious interest in breeding for show. By the time I left Hawaii (in 2001) for school in California there was no one breeding fancy mice or rats in the state.

I would love to see the fancy start up in Hawaii, however, there is considerable cost involved in importing breeding stock into the state. For a time, the state banned the importation of rats and mice because the legal language governing what kinds of mice and rats could be imported was not specific enough. I spent months working with the state department of agriculture to reestablish importation guidelines and this was accomplished before I left. It is my understanding that the state now charges a rather substantial fee to issue an import permit. This cost would be on top of the cost of breeding stock, veterinary health certificates, shipping crates, and air transport into Hawaii.

There are many lovely pet mice in Hawaii. Satins and longhairs are very common. I've seen unusual colors like black-eyed white and various kinds of blue in Hawaii pet stores. It's worth it to keep an eye out for what might be available.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Dumbo rats most definitely do have larger ears than top eared rats...I have both...and if you'd like, I could measure their ears (though I generally prefer top ears as well)....I assure you that dumbo rats have larger ears, they are also shaped differently. The dumbo gene does not just affect ears either, the gene also affects the shape of the skull. Regardless of that though, it is correct that there is essentially no chance of finding a dumbo mouse. There was a seemingly dumbo mouse born in europe at some point...but the person who found it dropped out of sight (was a reptile person breeding feeders) and no one ever heard from them again after a couple pics were posted


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## Jeannot (Jul 30, 2012)

I disagree. I have never seen a dumbo rat with ears that exceed the _normal variation within rats_, certainly never to the same degree of difference seen between exhibition mice and pet or laboratory mice. The placement of the ears on a dumbo can give the impression of a wider ear. On many dumbos the ear tends to open more. This is not a larger ear. There is nothing inherent about the mutation that results in a larger ear than on a normal rat. I have bred both varieties and handled many examples of both. There is a large range of variation in ear-placement, set and carriage in dumbo rats. Some of them open widely and out to the sides. These can look bigger, but I contend, on average, they are not. Even though rats may demonstrate a lower standard deviation in ear size than mice do, I suggest that all rats (including dumbos) fall within this range. You are correct about head shape. Eye placement and set are often also impacted.

The difference in ear size between exhibition mice and pet mice is a result of selection, not a mutation. Rats can be selected similarly within their normal range of variation. I have bred standard rats with very large ears (for a rat) and they were lovely animals, but still within the normal range of variance.

Pet peeve time: I know that fanciers in the UK have taken to referring to rats as either dumbos or "top ears." Why are so many willing to accept altered terminology for an existing variety just because something new has turned up? When tailless rats became more available no one started referring to everything else as "tailed rats."


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