# Variegated Help



## Rambo-Bright

Hi everyone.

I've recently acquired some variegated mice, and am wanting to know from other breeders here how they select for better marked variegateds?

Please be aware I'm in Australia, and our variegated gene acts exactly the same as the white spotting gene does overseas except it is not lethal. The BEW mice born from a variegated x variegated litter survive and live as normal, they do not die before 2 weeks.

So, how did you select for ideal variegated markings? I'm eager to hear your responses


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## Rambo-Bright

Here are some photos of my variegated mice, they're about 9 weeeks old at present. The pairing was between a white buck and a variegated doe. The buck is REW, but simply due to the fact he is also Siamese. The pair produced four mice, three males ad a female. Pictured here are the males, two black variegateds and a REW buck. Their sister is BEW.
Others who have worked with variegated report getting BEWs in their litters also, but they are not anemic or pass away, they live out normal mousey lives.

I will be testing to see if there A in the REW/BEW mice, just to ensure that the presence of BEW/REW is not caused by c-dilutes and is in fact two copies of the variegated trait. I also intend to breed the REW buck to one of my Siamese does to see if he is in fact Siamese with two copies of the variegated trait.


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## bethmccallister

I don't have an direct experience breeding variegated myself however these look a lot like my piebald merles that were heavy roan. Is your variegated recessive? I need to do some more homework, lol. I would try to perhaps introduce more self color?


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## madmouse

To the best of my knowledge, what you are referring to is not variegated (W/w). Variegated is a dominant gene which causes a dark colored mouse with speckles, splashes, splotches, and sometimes something resembling ticking. When a BEW is produced from a vari, that is because that particular mouse is s/s W/w. Recessive spotting (pied) combined with variegated produces BEW. To the best of my knowledge a W/W mouse does not make it out of the womb. I totally agree with Beth that these guys don't look vari (at least nothing like the vari we have in the states).


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## Frizzle

I also am skeptical that what you have is variegated. I would find it interesting to see other mice of this variety produced by other breeders in your areas to see if they look similar in appearance.

Here is the finnmouse's example of variegated, you'll notice their edges are undefined, and there aren't the solid blocks of color.
http://hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/variegated.html

Anemic mice in this variety do indeed make it out of the womb, here is an old thread that shows what anemic mice look like. It also gives a good example of what heavily pigmented Variegated mice look like, how they lack that crisp & definite edge like your mice.
http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10720&hilit=anemic

I think your mice are really neat looking, don't get me wrong! Maybe with selective breeding you could come up with a feasible "mock" variegated someday.

*Edit: I would also like to see pictures of the parents if that is possible!


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## Rambo-Bright

Thanks for the information.

Australia does not have 'W' to the best of my knowledge, nor do we have roan or merle. The mice I have posted are what we refer to as variegateds in Australia. I was not trying to say 'hey these mice are 'W', what I'm trying to get at is it's dominant, or a form of dominance.

_"I would find it interesting to see other mice of this variety produced by other breeders in your areas to see if they look similar in appearance."_

I would like to compare my mice to others in my area, but this variety is difficult to find in Australia and I don't know of many breeders who work with it at all. It's almost extinct, I was fortunate to come across it in a pet shop nearby. Breeders from Australia in the past have bred this variety, and worked with it selectively breeding it until mice much like the ones you linked to on Finnmouse's page were produced. Sadly many of the breeders do not keep mice anymore and aren't around at all anymore or are not contactable to discuss how they took mice like these and selectively bred for a more ideal marking. There was one person who bred them but no longer has them and he has given me his findings, and they looked just like the mice above. 
When he bred one of the black splotchy ones to a self it produced self mice and mice with small white belly markings, both of which had a white ticking effect up the sides of their bodies and along their.

All variegateds in Australia look like this to my knowledge, to one has taken the time to selectively breed them for a better variegated look. This is the only 'variegated' type mouse Australia has. The parents of these guys look identical, mother is like the black mice and father is like the white boy depicted. The white mice have small coloured patches on their backs near the top of their tails.

I've heard the term piebald referred to overseas, is this the same as broken marked or even marked?

I have seen a picture of a 'poor' variegated over on the Fun Mouse, they refer to it as being 'undermarked' and it looks very similar to the mice I have http://www.thefunmouse.com/varieties/marked.cfm

I don't know of any other breeders of variegateds in my area, I know of a few feeder breeders who have these mice but they don't know what they are themselves. I've been out looking for these mice for well over a year now, I was given some in the past from another breeder, however they were poorly and passed away very quickly. I've been lucky with these mice so far in terms of health, they're also very sweet too.

I know they look nothing like the ideal selectively bred mice from over in the US and throughout Europe, but you guys have had a big head start on the Australian fancy, we're about 20 years behind over here. It's only really started to gain more popularity in the past few years. There are a few who have had mice for a while and are still going with them, which is great, they have made excellent progress.

I'm unsure what else these mice could be, roan and merle do not exist in Australia (or maybe they do and that is what I'm looking at?). If they were a combination of piebald and something else, how would I be able to tell? Is there a certain variety I should breed these mice to, to prove they are in fact a mix of piebald and something else (whatever this something else may be)? Should I perhaps pair one to a piebald, or maybe a self?

My next pairings were going to be two of the black mice to one another, the two BEW mice together, a black one to a self mouse and a BEW one to a self mouse.

I've been given so much food for thought about this, thank you everyone for sharing your information with me! 

When I do pair these mice again, I'll update on what I bred them to and what I got. I'll make sure to post photos, because baby mouse photos are adorable


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## Frizzle

Ohhhhh, I understand what you're getting at! How it might not actually be "W" but acts much the same, minus the lethal gene. 

As to what to pair it to, I'd definitely suggest the marked to an unrelated self mouse not carrying pied. Pied (piebald) is usually just referring to recessive s/s. It's an extremely flexible gene, and used for both even & broken, just bred for in different directions. If you get marked mice, then they are not s/s! Also pair two of the marked mice together, the variegated we have would give you a mix of self, marked, & BEW.

I can't wait for pictures of what they produce. You are like a mouse pioneer!


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## Rambo-Bright

Sometimes I'm not so great at describing things :/ But yes, that is what I'm getting at. Though, from further reading on Finnmouse, it states that a mouse that is BEW as a result of s/s and W* will be BEW and usually characterised by spots of colour near the back of the ear or the haunches, much like what I've got and much as madmouse stated. Though if this is W I'll eat my, uh, chocolate bar (don't really want to eat a hat!).

So if I pair a self mouse not carrying pied to one of the black blotchy fellows above, and get a marked mice in the litter it's not pied (s)? I'll definitely be pairing the two variegated/black blotchy not-sure-what-they-are's  together. I'll also definitely post pics when I do. At present I have other litters, and these guys are only about 9 weeks old so won't be bred anytime soon.

Lol! Mouse pioneer! Well I'm interested in these guys, there has been much talk about variegated mice and these have always been referred to as variegated mice in Australia but no one is exactly sure how it works, and those I have spoken to who have bred it had interesting results but only had a few litters. Hopefully I'll get some answers! If they are some form of variegated, I'd like to know how breeders select for a nicely variegated mouse even just out of interest as I have found very little information on it. I know it's a tricky variety that can take lots of time, and I have such respect for those who persevere and who have such patience to produce such stunning mice!


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## bethmccallister

I think well defined variegated have a classic line down their backs. Perhaps select for the presences of a well defined white line and even sides of color?


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## leonne75

Hi I also live in Australia and would love to start breeding Variegated mice but I would not even know where to start, any tips ideas or help would be appreciated. I would love to work together to improve this gorgeous type in australia.
Kind regards


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## WoodWitch

This one


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## Laigaie

Since you're in Aus, your first thing will be to find someone who has variegated, which may well end with finding that it's not in Aus at all. It's a closed country as far as mice, with no imports allowed, so if it's not there, you'll be stuck without.


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