# Shiny babies vs. Grotty babies



## Skye_29 (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi, I've got some confusing babies.

There are this lot, whose mother is a blue banded tan and father was a BEW. They're so shiny! None of my other litters are this shiny, and they look different colours depending on where the light hits them. Is this me being stupid, or is there something going on with their coats? They're all various shades of grey, and I assume it's blue? But I have no idea. All are tans/foxes. What's the whitish one? It can't be a BEW because it's not white enough, right?









































Then there's these two. The litter was of four and there are two 'normal' BEW babies while there's a grotty looking BEW and what I think is a broken agouti (who is sadly a boy, can't keep any more bucks). What's going on here? Are they just late coming into their fur, or is there something going on with their fur? They don't have much hair and are all wrinkly. All four babies are really chubby compared to the other litters too.

























Thanks :3


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## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

the shiney ones look like satins ... are both parents satin carriers or satins?


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## Skye_29 (Jan 7, 2013)

andypandy29us said:


> the shiney ones look like satins ... are both parents satin carriers or satins?


The parents aren't and don't carry satin as far as I know. The mother's mother and grandmother didn't carry it, and the father didn't carry it; but his father was a 'fuzzy' mouse if this could mean anything? I paired father x daughter.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I wondered, when I got my first fancy meeces, why one of them was shiny and thought there must be something like a 'satin' mouse coat. Recessive, and quite lovely, especially in the diluted self like these are. Inbreeding is the surefire way to bring out something like this. Satin might not be apparent on a fuzzy mouse, I think?


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## Skye_29 (Jan 7, 2013)

moustress said:


> I wondered, when I got my first fancy meeces, why one of them was shiny and thought there must be something like a 'satin' mouse coat. Recessive, and quite lovely, especially in the diluted self like these are. Inbreeding is the surefire way to bring out something like this. Satin might not be apparent on a fuzzy mouse, I think?


Thanks  I was going to cull all my male babies from all the litters, but I left these alone as I'm curious to find out what they might turn into. The fuzzy-like ones are also possibly inbred. I paired two does to two bucks (different cages) and then put the does together when they were pregnant and I didn't know who the fathers or mothers of the babies were; a mistake I won't make again lol. Anyway, these babies all have a possibility of being inbred daughter x father.


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## visitor (Jan 8, 2011)

They are very pretty. Satins and fuzzies are adorable


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Your shiny mice are definitely satin and the ones with less fur, fuzzies; both recessives. Recessive genes can stay hidden for amazing lengths of time if the right pairings are not made to bring it out. I inherited a stud of argentes which had been owned and bred by at least two breeders prior. I began to produce pied argentes from the line (much to my annoyance) but neither of the previous owners had! The pied was obviously in there all along though.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

WoodWitch said:


> I began to produce pied argentes from the line (much to my annoyance) but neither of the previous owners had! The pied was obviously in there all along though.


This is the kind of thing that makes mouse breeding so interesting to me!


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## Skye_29 (Jan 7, 2013)

WoodWitch said:


> Your shiny mice are definitely satin and the ones with less fur, fuzzies; both recessives. Recessive genes can stay hidden for amazing lengths of time if the right pairings are not made to bring it out. I inherited a stud of argentes which had been owned and bred by at least two breeders prior. I began to produce pied argentes from the line (much to my annoyance) but neither of the previous owners had! The pied was obviously in there all along though.


Wow that really cool. Thanks for clearing this up and you must have been pretty surprised when you got pieds 

The fuzzy isn't surprising really, the grandmother and father are both from a breeder who focuses on fuzzies among other things. The satin is really surprising though, they're so pretty! I always admired them, I can't believe is produced them  I'll definitely repeat this pairing. I know from breeding snakes that recessive genes are really annoying and you only really get chances of hitting the homozygous form with two carriers, it was lucky I got all (or maybe most) satins 

Anyone know what colour/variety the satin ones are? They're all shades of grey blue, some really dark and some really light, does satin make BEWs more cream/stone coloured?


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Skye_29 said:


> Anyone know what colour/variety the satin ones are? They're all shades of grey blue, some really dark and some really light, does satin make BEWs more cream/stone coloured?


I can't really wager a guess in terms of colours but yes, satin will darken many varieties. My bone buck looks light beige/stone (he's on this forum, I'll link you to him if you're curious). That said, I see blue.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Seafolly said:


> This is the kind of thing that makes mouse breeding so interesting to me!





Skye_29 said:


> Wow that really cool. Thanks for clearing this up and you must have been pretty surprised when you got pieds


Yes, it's very interesting and I do (secretly) like surprises, but when one is breeding for specifics it's an awful annoyance to have unwanted things crop up. The argentes are unkind to me enough without throwing pieds at me. Shocking! :lol:

Sorry, I'm a genetic ignoramous so wouldn't like to input on colours.


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## Skye_29 (Jan 7, 2013)

WoodWitch said:


> Yes, it's very interesting and I do (secretly) like surprises, but when one is breeding for specifics it's an awful annoyance to have unwanted things crop up. The argentes are unkind to me enough without throwing pieds at me. Shocking! :lol:
> 
> Sorry, I'm a genetic ignoramous so wouldn't like to input on colours.


Haha, I can imagine  I've had practically a 3:1 boy girl rate with all my litters at the moment, which is sad because I can't keep boys and they usually end up as feeders :/ I literally struggled to find a girl in about 10 babies, I blamed my sexing skills and am going to have another go in a few days.

Fate can be so unfair :I


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

It can be very inconvenient! Though mine are close to 50/50, boys do dominate. With my first litter they were all the pink eyed babies so I lost out on seeing any dove or pink eyed RY I suspected the mother carried. I'm trying to pluck up the courage to sex mine now. -_- But then they peep and I lose my nerve.


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

Yep Satin and Fuzzy-Hairless. The colours am still trying to work out myself. Getting interesting Greys pop out now plus foxes. The same light coloured ' not white' too.


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## Skye_29 (Jan 7, 2013)

Myth said:


> Yep Satin and Fuzzy-Hairless. The colours am still trying to work out myself. Getting interesting Greys pop out now plus foxes. The same light coloured ' not white' too.


Heya Myth! I didn't realise you were on this forum  I actually sent you an email about these guys with, like, a ton of photos :lol: 
I've had grey foxes too, I think it's silver tickled agouti.. not sure. I'm keeping a buck from my grey fox litter to see if I can make any more just like him, his shade of grey is stunning (IMO  )


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## Myth (May 22, 2009)

Yeah replied - I still lurk about here. As said in mail am trying to combine satin into fuzzy-hairless to get less fuzz. Plus weed out the longhaired that keep popping up.
Also kept on a pretty shade of grey buck...and have an interesting very lightly marked pale doe, v.nice but no idea on colour unless is diluted something. A few pretty mysterys here at mo. Also far too many pretty broken tans!


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## CharmingMice (Mar 15, 2013)

Stunning babies, can't wait to see how they turn out!


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## Radical Mice (Mar 24, 2013)

I can't tell but dang they are cuties


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