# Improving Type in Progress



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Since I began breeding mice again, I felt I needed to take it more seriously and have a goal to strive for. For a long time I wanted to breed a specific colour and improve on it though I believe my reasons were purely because of ease but after doing that for a very short time, I became bored of seeing the same colour over and over again - I missed my surprises in each litter. 
I have always envied all the people overseas with their wonderfully typed mice and their gorgeous big ears and long tail. They are truely.. "drool worthy" and something I always wanted to see in person but sadly, with our current import laws, that won't be happening. 
So there you have it, my final decision : To improve on overall type with the main focus being ears and tails, with eyes and body shape falling closely behind that. I know that this goal will be increasingly difficult with only having pet shop mice to select for but I would like to try and hopefully, one day, achieve my goal.

After deciding upon this, I had a real look at my mice. The type of look when you realise how poor your mice are and how far you have to go but I suppose in a sense, I found some hope in a female doe called Xia and her litter of babies, (thank you to those who have commented on them in regards to their potential!)

So, first of all I wanted to show you what is typically found around in pet stores - this is Ava, she was born on the 4th of May assuming the pet store weaned them at exactly 4 weeks old.








No tail set, short tails, a bit chubby, the list goes on.

And then my potentials - Xia (middle) and her babies - Fae (left) and Nephelie (right)









Xia was actually a pet shop score, she started out pretty standard for a pet shop girl but almost changed before my eyes once she reached 4-5 months of age. She is approximately 9 inches (her tail continues a fair bit after the photo edge) with her tail being the same length as her body, showing signs of a tail set, big eyes and decent body shape as well.






























Now for Fae, Fae has a lower ear set which could help greatly if paired up right which won't be happening for a while (born 21st December). Just like her mother, tail is the same length as her body 























And now little Nephelie. Despite the fact that she is the runt (only smaller by 2g now), she is like a miniature version of her mother!






























Of course, I had to keep a buck from Xia's litter to pair her with (and also Nephelie and Fae when they are old enough). His ears are poor but they are lower set than Nephelie which again, will help. He also has potential with his tail set though I don't have pictures of that currently uploaded to my computer. 
Meet Bently :


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## TrixYogurt (iM) (Oct 28, 2012)

Wow. I really admire your determination. Really.

I have to say Xia is beautiful. Her type is the best I've ever seen on a pet shop mouse (not that I have seen allll that many). Her eyes are large and absolutely stunning 

Good luck with your goals and keep us updated for sure!


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## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

lovely pics and a fab way to trace the mice  I might have to do that too


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Oh how exciting! Well, the patient kind of exciting. This is the kind of thing I love to see.  Years later, this thread should show clearly how well the selection is working. (Provided the mice do their part, life remains stable-ish, and a good dose of luck in the offspring, of course. lol) I expect a bunch of frustrated posts in between, but this should be really be interesting! Xia is such a lucky start in that area. 

Go Cordane!,
Zanne


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Those pieds will give you a good starting point, good luck


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

TrixYogurt (iM) said:


> Wow. I really admire your determination. Really.
> 
> I have to say Xia is beautiful. Her type is the best I've ever seen on a pet shop mouse (not that I have seen allll that many). Her eyes are large and absolutely stunning
> 
> Good luck with your goals and keep us updated for sure!


I must have been very lucky when I went into that pet store that day! They just bring their mice in from which ever person wants to give them mice and they never keep a record of who brings them in - its rather frustrating.. 
Thank you for the kind words by the way 


andypandy29us said:


> lovely pics and a fab way to trace the mice  I might have to do that too


I'll also be keeping record on paper with measurements if I can get them and such. I will be sure to keep this thread updated with pictures - not of every litter but any that I am keeping at 3 months of age, maybe weaning as well.


PPVallhunds said:


> Those pieds will give you a good starting point, good luck


Thank you! I know I will need all the luck I can get.


ThatCertainGlow said:


> I expect a bunch of frustrated posts in between, but this should be really be interesting! Xia is such a lucky start in that area.
> 
> Go Cordane!,
> Zanne


Well I'm already thinking of potential problems and trying to figure out ways around it and so forth. I have come to the realisation that to produce any with decent shape, I will definitely have to avoid breeding to my current stud bucks. Any boys they produce usually end up being chubby and rather.. round and often, so do the girls.
The only pro about the current males that I can see if they have rather wide heads which are also "short" especially in comparison to Xia's "weasley" face..
I fear that using my current bucks would be a huge set back.. Actually, using anything I have that is unrelated to Xia are potentially a huge set back.. Bleh.

Hopefully, Xia, Fae or Nephelie will produce a well shaped buck that I can use in future.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Improvement already in Tail-set. This is Bently at 2 months old.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Very nice!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Nicely done!

I missed this thread before. I'm having similar trouble as my next litter will be quite predictable. So until US imports are a reality, I'm hoping to see improved type. But like you, I miss variety and the anticipation of surprise. We both work with pet shop mice though so perhaps something strange will pop up.  Xia's ears are far superior to anything I've seen in person. No doubt you'll see a lot of progress even in just a year.


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## Kosmo (Apr 18, 2013)

Those mice are gorgeous. I'm a big fan of broken piebalds, and that's a very interesting spotting pattern that you have there. I worked with spotted mice for five years, keeping careful records of the degree of white spotting, and I found it fascinating.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

I've come to a few conclusions so far with my "type" and "pet" lines. 
- Large eyes seem to occur in my pet line and the first cross between my type and pet line.
- Decent tail sets continue to occur in each litter with slight improvements

The Nephelie x Bentley litter is only 10 days old currently so I won't be making my final picks in her litter for a few more weeks yet.
However, Xia x Bentley litter is 4 weeks old on Wednesday and I have already made my pick as to who I will be keeping (permanently or to see how they mature).

Xia x Bentley Doe Keeper :


Xia x Bentley Potential Stud Buck (he's "winking" in this picture..)


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Nephelie has been paired up again with Bentley so now I'm on baby watch for her but until babies arrive, I'm onto planning my next pairings.
A few does I have kept back have come up to breeding age so I thought I would introduce them properly.

*AppleCheeks Nebula*
Daughter of Xia and Bentley. She is overall the better of two two with nicer eyes and tail set but her ears need to be rounder.
















*AppleCheeks Nimbus*
Daughter of Nephelie and Bentley. She still has nice features but not as good as Nebula - her ears are an improvement though.


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## Kosmo (Apr 18, 2013)

Nice progress already! Keep us all posted as this continues. Very interesting stuff.


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## RavennaHallowed (Jul 6, 2013)

Wow lovely Mice. I'm watching this with great interest!


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

I'm quite impressed with how things are coming along.
Large eyes seems to be a given and I've yet to really take a step back with ear size - there does seem to be improvements thankfully.
Tail sets have been a hit and miss but I think I finally have a keeper buck who has a fantastic tail set considering he is only the 2nd generation away from pet shop mice (his grandmother was from a pet store).
















He has a gorgeous head, large eyes, his ears may be a small step back compared to the girls I have but not with the boys. The tail set is what convinced me to keep him though!

I've also ended up keeping his sister (Amelie) - my first baby from this line who isn't a piebald black! 
She is very much identical to her sister Nimbus (previous litter). Fine, petite figure, low set ears, large eyes from the get-go.









***

Nimbus and Nebula have both been paired up to Bentley, I would have liked to wait to pair them up to the new buck but knowing this line, he won't do the job until he is around 3 months and with both girls being 4 months, I'd rather not wait.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Thank you so much for continuing to update this!  Love Amelie, and your keeper boy's tail set. Nice! Waiting for the adult overhead shots.


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

What a great thread! I hadn't seen this before. Great to see your results and looking forward to future updates =]


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

ThatCertainGlow said:


> Thank you so much for continuing to update this!  Love Amelie, and your keeper boy's tail set. Nice! Waiting for the adult overhead shots.


Ah of course! I will have to do that when I get home - I am currently on holiday in Hamilton visiting friends and Grandparents but should be back on Thursday or something.



Onyx said:


> What a great thread! I hadn't seen this before. Great to see your results and looking forward to future updates =]


Why thank you!
I'm quite impressed in how far i have come in less than a year


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## Onyx (May 2, 2010)

It's very rewarding if you can be quite hard on yourself and be critical about what needs done. When I first joined the forum I had pet shop not-great mice and worked on improving them, so I know it can be rewarding and seeing the progress is just great. Keep at it! I know you guys struggle to get UK type show mice, so working on your own lines for improvement must be doubly rewarding


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## Kayota (Dec 29, 2013)

This is very similar to my plan  My foundation mice are less than stellar but a couple of them have nice ears at least.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Your doing a realy good job, the tail sets are realy improving with them.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

And another update. My progress with this line has been a bit delayed with ruby eyed cropping up in one of the litters but I do have a new stud buck, picture is from when he was newly weaned, probably about 2 months ago now though..









I plan to pair him up with Amelie (pictured below) shortly.


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## Tora (Jan 2, 2014)

Beautiful mice! I love them all and can't wait to see the newest update!


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

Well I will post a photo today but I have a pretty long tailed female she is only 6-7 weeks but im saddened to say she will refuse lots of food it seems her body isn't growing its just her tail


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## Tora (Jan 2, 2014)

awh I wonder why... your babies sound beautiful!


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

Tora, she's a store brought ha ha I cheated photo later I can't be bothered


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## Tora (Jan 2, 2014)

every now and then you need to cheat xD if she's a great mouse then it doesn't matter whether she's a pet store mouse or from a breeder right?  all that matters is that she's loved by her people


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

I swear we have no breeders here and the pet shops are always good (except one which is TERRIBLE so it makes up for the rest to be good) yeah he he


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

Wowing results IMO, thanks for the inspiration!


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

BlackSelf said:


> Wowing results IMO, thanks for the inspiration!


Thank you!

And now an much needed update.
Back in November I adopted some mice from a breeder who I trusted, that backfired and a respiratory infection was introduced into my mousery. The boys I had planned on using for this line ended up being hit the worst and we culled which has forced me to take a step back in my progress. In the process of treated everyone, Nimbus and Nebula became to old and I couldn't get that final litter out of them that I had hoped for so I'm just going to have to make do with what I have.

So these are the mice I'm left to work with :








Sasha, oddly enough she is the offspring of Taittenger, one of my pet boys with litter ears and a very.. round body (his Dad was the one who produced both Bentley and Nephelie). She has grown into her ears a little bit more now however she is much larger than the current girls but still "slim".









Zoelle, she gave birth to a litter of 3 today. She has lovely ears and eyes but is on the.. chubby side.









Bella (picture taken with mobile). She has lovely low set ears which don't appear to crease with much severity. She is Zoelles half sister.
















This is the one boy I have for this line - this is definitely a step back for me sadly. He does have lovely eyes and a face that I love but his ears are shocking, along with his tail set and body shape.


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear about the boys  I hope you can recover quickly from your losses. On the positive side those mice look great!, i think the advances you've made so far have paid off haven't they? I hope my pet-quality mice strain goes as well as yours has so far! Mine aren't as good as yours but hey, gotta start somewhere right?


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

I was looking back at pictures of my previous breeding mice the other day and it was definitely nice to see how far I have come.
Basil was my first male mouse, he is where my breeding really started.









And this is Bella. She is 4 months old. Basil is her great grandad.


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## rocketmdove (Feb 8, 2014)

wow! I can really see the difference!


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

If you call (last page) that bad ears then don't look at my mice!


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## SaltedCaramel (Sep 3, 2014)

wow! this is a great inspiration for starter breeders who can only get pet-quality mice. selective breeding at its best


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