# Recessive Yellow or Undermarked Brindle?



## cirrutopia (Mar 8, 2010)

Mom is a pied brindle and though her markings are by no means perfect, they are pretty well defined. One of the pups has very clear stripes, and most of the other four darker ones I suspect are poorly marked brindle... but I'm not sure what to make of the three light pups... are they RY or poorly/under-marked brindle?

When I've seen what I think is poorly marked brindle before, there's often some indication of brindling on the face, be it just a few faint stripes between the eyes/above the nose? These three light babies don't have any of that.

Also, mom's white patches are limited to her underside, so I don't know which (if any) babies have white markings yet, but if it turns out that this litter has RY babies, these three could be so bright because... doesn't s/s delete any sootiness in RYs? At least, that's what I've read.




















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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Either is possible... both e/e and brindle can produce identical colorations, with or without sootiness.

I'm fairly sure I've had sooty pied e/e mice though....I've never seen/heard any mention of s/s blocking sootiness.... agouti can reduce sootiness though.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I can't help you out about brindle vs. RY, but I feel that with the fur coming in you should be able to tell which ones are pied, even on the belly. For sure in the next couple days.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I LOVE that top pic... it's a rainbow of babies! :lol: :love

I've had sooty pied RYs before, but I've noticed that in general the more white, the less sootiness. I also heard somewhere that chocolate based RYs are less sooty than agouti ones, but I don't know about that. Sorry, can't help you with your brindle vs RY...


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

yes, recessive yellows that are also genetically chocolate will have less sootiness....sootiness is dark hairs...the less dark the animal would be genetically otherwise...the less sootiness.... i.e. agouti has less black than black, chocolate or cinnamon have no black....if there is no black b/c of other genetics, an e/e mouse won't magically start producing black


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Wow! Would you mind if I save that first photo and use is on the United Mouse Club's website? 
Just let me know who or what mousery to credit it to and I'll add text to it.

Let me know!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

That top photo is a perfect representation of average marking distribution in a brindle to non-brindle mating. You've got a really dark brindle, several agouti, a pair of really sooty yellows, and three that look purely yellow, lovely! Breeding brindle to brindle will get you a "better" meaning more brindley distribution. Also, I've not heard that about s/s brindles, and did not find it to be true for my s/s brindles, though I did not breed them for long.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Stina said:


> yes, recessive yellows that are also genetically chocolate will have less sootiness....sootiness is dark hairs...the less dark the animal would be genetically otherwise...the less sootiness.... i.e. agouti has less black than black, chocolate or cinnamon have no black....if there is no black b/c of other genetics, an e/e mouse won't magically start producing black


Following that, I wonder if a mouse that is genetically lilac, blue and choc, but e/e would have even less sootiness? hmm... *going to stare at my recessive yellows*


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Mixing blue with e/e produces a wierd very pale effect. Keep in mind that blue removes yellow pigment..NOT black...blue mice actually have more melanin (black pigment) than black mice, but it is distributed differently and reduces pheomelanins (yellows and reds).

Here is an e/e d/d mouse...

2010-12-07 Mice 007 by CSBeck, on Flickr


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

hmm, ok not lilac mice. I should have realized that, I've seen a e/e d/d mouse before, I just forgot.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

I rather like the unusual colour of that e/e d/d mouse


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

its an interesting color...like a blue fawn dog


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Do people breed it, or is it just a bi-product or means to another end?


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

its an accident generally...lol A couple people have considered breeding it intentionally, but I don't think anyone actually is.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I actually have a e/e d/d mouse... she's satin, so she's a bit brighter than the one in the picture, which is why I didn't think of her at first. I got her from another breeder, but I'm pretty sure she was an accident because the other breeder has nearly exclusively blues... I bred her to my satin RY boy, and have 5 darling RY girls... 2 black based, 3 blue based. There is such a noticeable difference between them it's comical! :lol:


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