# Tailless mice?



## jujubee18

I have just recently acquired a tailless or short tailed mouse...Her tail is only about a cm long. What I am hoping is that I can breed her with my other dove and produce some tailless doves somewhere down the line, but I have a few questions. First of all is the tailless gene recessive? also If I am breeding two doves together what are some common unknown colors that may pop up?


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## Rhasputin

Are you sure it wasn't bitten off?


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## jujubee18

Absolutely...I talked to the man who breed them and he said that most of his babies in his dove colony were born without tails, and It doesn't look like it has been bitten off. I'll give a picture or two.


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## nuedaimice

If it were bitten off at birth (by an overly zealous cleaning mother) it would look that way. I had one many, many years ago who had a tail like that and his back right foot was missing from mom biting it off at birth.

Did you as the man if he ever had any other missing limbs in the colony?


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## jujubee18

I'll be asking him about it


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## Roland

jujubee18 said:


> I have just recently acquired a tailless or short tailed mouse...Her tail is only about a cm long. What I am hoping is that I can breed her with my other dove and produce some tailless doves somewhere down the line, but I have a few questions. First of all is the tailless gene recessive? also If I am breeding two doves together what are some common unknown colors that may pop up?


Here are some links about Manx animals, including a link about the genetics of manx mice. They are poor criples and should never be bred.
http://www.messybeast.com/twisty.htm
http://www.afrma.org/taillesstrbl.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7296383
http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/24/4/587
http://www.nfrs.org/banned.html

About colors that may pop up in doves: All other recessives, especially if the doves are related. Recessive colours are c-dilutions and many others.

Regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


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## jujubee18

I'm curious...If it happens that this is something that just popped up in his line, and isn't like breeding shortish tailed mice until their offspring end up with shorter tails and so on [which I understand would be really bad for their spine and hips] Will it still have the bad hips and spine? She looks like she is walking around like a normal mouse, and her spine looks smooth and not contorted at all.


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## Roland

jujubee18 said:


> I'm curious...If it happens that this is something that just popped up in his line, and isn't like breeding shortish tailed mice until their offspring end up with shorter tails and so on [which I understand would be really bad for their spine and hips] Will it still have the bad hips and spine? She looks like she is walking around like a normal mouse, and her spine looks smooth and not contorted at all.


For a mouse a tail is importantb for many reasons, eg for climbing/balance, heatregulation, showinmg emotionds to other mice, and so on. A mouse without tail is a poor criple, it does not matter at all, if it is serious ill, because the hips, spine and urinary tract are deformed in addition.

We had a discussion in another forum before. Someone wrote he is a human and as a human has the right to breed blind an deaf mice without taila nd without legs, if he thinks this is funny. Well, this is an opinion, but not my opinion.

Anyway, I think your new mouse will be a cute animal and you will love it and give her the best treatment for sure. We would care for an animal, if it had lost its tail by an accident too. So be happy with her, just do not breed her, erase the genes from further distribution.

Best regards, Roland


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## jujubee18

OK good to know...I also disagree with what that person had to say. Humans are meant to be good shepherds for the animals around us. I believe we shouldn't misuse them or treat any of them badly and help them prosper, but we should still be able to do things such as eat meat, and have pets. However if it happens that this man admits to her tail having been bitten off when she was young I may think about breeding her with my dove boy. If it is a real tailless gene I'll do as you say and refrain from breeding her.


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## nuedaimice

The man may not know for sure if it was bitten off, if he breeds for a pet store, he probably doesn't check his babies often. (I know you had said in another thread that he said he had Satin Blacks, but black is one of the hardest colors to tell Satin on - so I would think he just may not know what he's looking for, as Blacks often look shinier anyway).

I would like to add that animals who lose their tails early on in life do very much learn how to function without them, so they can live a happy life without it. Think about if you were born without an arm (or lost it as an infant)... you would never even know what it was like to have one, so would function normally. Unlike if you had lost it later in life which would require therapy (and you would probably suffer from phantom limb pain). So she should be able to lead a normal life.

But as Roland said, some tailless genes do cause a lot of problems (I do not think the rec. Australian Tailless gene has these issues, but I am not sure, so do not quote me on that!)


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## jujubee18

I slipped up saying they were just black satin. He said they were black and brown broken satin...so it would be pretty easy to tell what type of fur it had. Plus he said he had bought the parents of the mice from someone who mice I have seen before. She breeds primarily satins. He may not know much about the tailless thing, but I don't think the satins were a mistake.


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