# A Word of Caution...



## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Firstly, let me say I in no way want to upset anyone or cast question on the way anyone chooses to keep their Mice but I just felt I needed to pass on my concerns so that anyone who is interested my draw their own conclusions. 

I have been using Aubiose as substrate for my mice over a year now and have loved it but I have recently been having trouble with getting bales that smell very musty. As a last resort I put my mice on a good quality shavings as I felt the risks associated with Pine shavings (Phenols)were outweighed by the risks of keeping my Mice on mouldy/dusty bedding, sadly it appears I was wrong.

All of my mice are now displaying respiratory symptoms, one has red tears and although three of them are fatties anyway, they have all bloated in the belly,on one side more than the other and sadly my aged,frail little doe, Inka had to be PTS as she was very ill with respiratory problems and Acites.  
They have all been to the Vet, who thinks the Acites could be due to Liver problems and they are now all on Baytril for their URI.

So I cannot say that it was definitely the Shavings that caused my problems for my girls but it does seem coincidental that it is the only thing I have changed and then along come these problems. 

I feel guilty and feel I should have been more cautious, I Hasten to say, my mice are now back on Aubiose!


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm not going to 'draw any conclusions', I just want to say don't feel too guilty. You did it, hoping it would be better. From what you describe, you only did what you thought/hoped was best, and that is all you can do.
I'm sorry to hear it went badly, so good luck!
Hugs


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I want to say this not to prove you wrong, but to encourage you to search for other problems that may have caused your issues, so it doesn't happen again.

I have used pine bedding for almost 1 year now, and have had no problems from it at all. The vast majority of people that I know use pine bedding, that has been kiln dried, and is usually labled 'dust free' and it causes no symptoms at all.

I think you shouldn't feel so guilty, as I really doubt that it was the choice of bedding that caused your issues, you should investigate other things like water and food and see if there may be something else that may be causing your problems, and prevent them in the future. 
Is there anything strange in your water? Is there corn in your feed? Could it have mold in it?

Think of everything, just in case there is something you have missed.
Again, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. Just giving some personal experience to try and make things right.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I agree, and I especially agree that you mustn't feel guilty Boggit Keeper! We know you take good care of your mice, and you made the right call. Musty substrate is not a good thing for mice to be living in, far worse than anything wood shaving phenols have to offer. Your logic was sound, it was just unfortunate to have the outcome it did xxxx


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks guys.  I must admit, I hadn't thought about the water but maybe it's something I ought to think about.
As for feeding corn, there's a story... When I first got this group of does I was desperate to do everything right, I spent ages(and lots of money) on trying to find the right feed for my mice. I wanted a feed with no corn, no peanuts and no sunflower seeds, :roll: At first I tried different brands of commercial mouse food, then rat food. I sat patiently picking bits out! with half the feed(and nutrition gone) I then looked for healthier things to replace what I had taken out and for all of this hassle, the damn mice stubbornly turned their mousey noses up at most of it!
I then thought I had struck gold when I found a seed merchant RatRations, selling base grain mixes- no corn,no peanuts,no sunflower seeds-Hurray!  
To the base mix I added some healthy extras. This was by no means a cheap way of feeding my few girls(£6.95 for delivery per 10kg of feed) but I was happy to pay, happy that my mice were happy- No such luck! The little buggers seem to regularily have diarrhea :roll: :roll: I went through the process of trying to eliminate a different part of the feed to see which ingredient was upsetting them but to no avail!
So now I admit defeat! I ran out of feed and did the walk of shame to "Pets at Home" :lol: my Mice now have pets at home hamster muesli which contains all of the ingredients I have spent so long trying to avoid, I have to say their droppings are now normal(they're much nicer to handle now :lol: ) but maybe the feed IS what has caused the problem? 
Mmmm...... back to the drawing board!
 xXX


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Pine bedding made from fresh pine is bad but kiln dried pine is much better as the drying removes most the volatile elements that cause irritation. And I'm sure that different meeces have different levels of sensitivity to irritants, as well as differing susceptibilities to cancer whether it be caused by a reaction to corn or any other substance.

Meeces are just plain sensitive to stuff; I had a family of tris with several individuals who would have a seizure when the light in the mousery was turned on right after the outer room light was turned on. There's no telling sometimes what sets off a health crisis or death in the mousery.

I'm so sorry, BG, that you are having such a hard time with your mousies. It's always easy to beat up ones self over decisions or mistakes in care...boy, don't I know about that, though... In any case, we all know you did the best you could, Hope things turn around for you, and if not...well, we love you anyway. :comeheryou


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## Mouse Queen 96 (Jul 11, 2011)

I myself use a type of wood shaving bedding, with no health problems what so ever.  I started thinking and could it be started from the mouldy musty bedding that had been in there before you switched? The RI doesn't start in one day, just a question. Good luck with mouseys.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

I always used Aubiose and recently did the same as you, Boggit, and switched to shavings. Can't say I've seen any negative effects myself, so that supports the idea that something else is responsible for the bad luck with your mice.
Sorry you're having a tough time with them. Hope things improve for you x


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I've also switched to shavings and had no problems.


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Aww, Moustress, Thank you so much, sending a huge hug back across the water! xXx

Mouse Queen,Tratallen & Sarah C, Thank you, it's good to know you have used shavings with no ill effect, I think I'm just going to have to wait and see now, I don't want to make too many changes at once and my meeces are all getting on a bit now so I don't know if it is fair to change their diet too much.

Thanks again,It really helps to share our mousey ups and downs!  xXx


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## Kage Davies (Dec 21, 2008)

Could be the switch itself, rather than the materials? I used to use shavings, and switched to Aubiose and had a lot less RI problems... But I also changed house, and a bunch of other stuff. And mice are buggers in that they all react differently DX.

It'll be interesting to see what happens now I have to switch off of aubiose again. I can't get hold of the bugger DX.


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## morning-star (Apr 9, 2011)

I found when I swiched to aubiose I had a lot less problems with R.I's poping up than on shavings- funny thing is I have a bad reaction to the aubiose it gives me choughing fits and have to use a dust mask when cleaning. (it's fine when settled)

what substraite are you chaning to kage? I still can't find anything cheeper than the aubiose despite it's costly delivary.


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## Kage Davies (Dec 21, 2008)

I found a new awesome website. I'm switching to hempcore and fincard mixed. Something like that. I will let you know how it works out moneywise.

For All Animals is gone, as far as I can tell.


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