# Pixies litter



## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Pixies litter of 12 is now only 9. There was a stillborn, a bedding disaster (after agonising over the decision to cull the injured pup i decided to let him have a chance only to find him dead this morning  ) and a completely random death. Can they get smothered in the nest? I was worrying about that. Although for a first time mum with a litter of 12 i think pixie is doing really well. Considering i had to completely change the nest before they had even been born 24 hours shes being a star. How many of the remaining 9 can i expect to make it all the way? I know many breeders cull to 5 or so to give the best chance and wondered if this was because thats how many generally make it anyway? 
If i can figure out how i will put mum, dad and baby pics up here soon too 
thanks guys, dunno what i would have done without u!!!!


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Mum feeding babies


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Dad, Diesel


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Diesel with less flash lol


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

my poor little injured pinkie 
This was just after i cut him free from the bedding, today the tail looks much better!


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

and il get some of mum and bubs when shes not feeding them


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## Anubis (Dec 19, 2010)

I have never experienced (that i know of) of any pinkies being smothered in the nest, what kind of bedding disaster caused the damage to the tail? i see a nice milk belly in the first pic  How old is dad? he looks quite young to me.
They are all very cute


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Mum and dad are very young, they were sold to me as females lol. I got them at the beginning of April im not sure exactly how old they would be. I am not an experienced breeder, this is my first littler and i was using pets at home cotton wool type bedding and two of the pinkies got all caught up in it. The one pictured by the tail and another by the foot, that poor little thing died. But the tail looks a lot better today, if a little shorter. I really hope the 9 remaining make it tho, its so sad when i find one that hasn't! If they don't get smothered in the nest, any ideas on why they just die? They are all getting fed nicely from what i can tell! It seems like the experienced breeders never get these problems so i cant help thinking i have it set up wrong or something! Theres no marks on them so i don't think pixie did it...


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

I think the head of the mail looks a bit strange/ unhealthy.. Very short nose

Any way congratulation with this litter, I hope they keep doing well


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

unhealthy... How do you mean? Hes my baby boy i don't want him to be unhealthy! any advice on this?


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Babies









Mum, Pixie


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

You can't do anything about a short snout.. 
I've seen it before and then it was because of to much inbreeding, and that is a possibility because you don't know anything about the background of him..


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## Anubis (Dec 19, 2010)

There could be so many reasons why they die and sometimes you wont even know because mum will "dispose" of them herself (she has great instinct and her own reasons for doing this) Hopefully you have removed the cotton wool, but hopefully it's not a big intrusion on mums nest. You will have to keep an eye on the one with the damaged tail and make sure it isn't affecting his health in any way, looks like it has been docked a little bit by the bedding. The young mum seems to be doing a good job in the first pic so the remaining 9 have a good chance. And like Soleya stated, the dads head does look quite odd, very nice big ears though.
Keep us updated


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

His head probably isn't "unhealthy" so much as it is odd. I've seen it in feeder bins and pet stores before. He could still look a little disproportionate because he's still so young. I agree on those nice big ears, and grats on ending up with such a cute kiddo. With all good luck, mum will keep doing fine, and you'll have a ton more cuties!


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

I must say that also the mom has a short head.. Is it possible that they are brother and sister?


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## ccoryjohnn (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm sorry for everything you've had to experience with this litter, I'm sure it's not easy. But it sounds like you should be okay from here on out! Dad looks fine to me... I'm not sure what soleya meant by that...?
What kind of bedding do you have them on now? Your babies should live to be about (give or take) 2 years old! You'll have to of course seperate your bucks into their own tanks (if you don't, they will fight... sometimes resulting in death.) Do you plan on keeping all of them?
Some breeders cull their litters down for many different reasons such as gender, the type of color/varities they are going for and they'll also cull runts. You shouldn't have to plan on any of the others dying unless something accidentally happens again. Which hopefully it won't for you!
Good luck and if you need anything feel free to PM me!


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

I ment that the noses/ snouts / heads of the parents looked odd. Maybe unhealthy wasnt the right way to describe it.. But from the eyes to the nose is a short distance.. I think the mice look like they ran in to something really hard.. I mean not literally, but that's how i think it looks.. Just very odd


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

They are brother and sister, they were both supposed to be girls! The 'breeder' i got them from turned out to be a con artist i think, from the research iv done since pixie got pregnant iv found out that she seems to make gender 'mistakes' a lot but then she takes the unwanted litters and the male back. My guess is the boys end up as snake food and she sells the girls on. She isnt getting her greedy paws on my bunch of short headed inbreds thats for sure! And as for their weird looking heads, they are pets and we love them so it really doesnt matter. The litter was an accident and we will not breed them again, although i may get a non related female in the future and try my hand at breeding coz now the drama is done with i really enjoy them. At present i am using shredded toilet paper for bedding as it was all i had to hand when i took the cotton wool stuff out and i dont want to destroy her nest a second time. They seem quite happy now. I will keep you posted but please stop with the comments on how ugly or wrong looking they are coz it doesnt help any one and it just makes me worry !


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## Jacqueline (Jul 16, 2009)

You don't have to worry at all. I have some mice with a short nose too and there's nothing wrong with them. I heard from a Finnish breeder you can better not breed them together, because the nose is getting shorter every generation, but this litter won't have any problem probably (at least not because of the nose of dad).
I'm very curious to see how the litter will develop


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Thanks  Still got 9 at the mo, but one is a lot smaller and doesnt have as full a milk belly so i don't anticipate him making it a lot further  but the other 8 are big and lusty and i have high hopes that they will get there! Short nose or not pixie, the mum, is an absolute treasure and has let me handle them from day one (when i had to change her nest) and i couldnt wish for mice with nicer temperaments!!! I cant wait to see how the litter develops and will post more pics as soon as something changes!!!


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

I'm sorry but I never said they're ugly or wrong.. I said they looked odd and had a bad word choice when I said he looked unhealthy. Just for the record, I don't think they are ugly what so ever, just said what I saw about the nose.. Wasn't my intention t make you worrie or anything !!..


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

its ok i didnt notice the short nose because i guess i have never seen what breeders would call a 'proper' mouse 
my pinkies are getting their colours now, they look so sweet with little black patches!


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

I'm really curious to see a picture :love1


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

its not the best lighting but heres the latest pics


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

what a cuties !!


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## Anubis (Dec 19, 2010)

Great to hear they are going so well, and the shredded toilet paper will be fine! i always put a few tissues in with mine.
MOre pic's please lol :lol:


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

lol not a lot has changed yet, their skin is a bit darker but other than that they look pretty much the same! il put another pic up later today 
plus, when can i attempt to put bum pics up for a bit of gender help? iv guessed at 6 girls and 3 boys but iv never sexed a mouse before (obviously i didnt notice that the origionals were not 2 girls  )


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## Anubis (Dec 19, 2010)

I love it when they start to colour up! once you see the difference in male & female mice (next to each other) it will be alot easier for you! have you seen the sexing pic's here?


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

yeah i have studied the pics on here at length and am embarrassed to admit i cant tell the difference until it gets to the point where the nipples show, and once they go i cant tell again


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Pinkies day 5


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## Anubis (Dec 19, 2010)

nawww, love the newest pic :love1


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

super cute :love1


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

He's a typical pet store mousie in so many ways, which is not to say that he's unhealthy, just to say that he's a bit stubby looking and doesn't have the sleek racy lines of a show mousie. Without bludgeoning you with insults, I'd say that he's just not the stuff that most breeders would think of breeding.

You are obviously someone who just loves mousies, a lot like me, and that's fine. The only comment as to condition that I'd make in addition to what's been said is that there's just a bit of condition at issue here and the only thing that really shows it in this picture is around the eyes where the coat seems to have thinned. Perhaps you need to change bedding? Or is he an old mousie?

Please don't feel picked on; most of us just want to be helpful.


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

no hes not old, they were tiny when i got them they cant be older than 4 months. what bedding is best because iv noticed that pixie is thinning a lot along her spine as well, she has a bald patch on her neck and im starting to worry that diesel seems to have a permanent cold and one of his eyes is often closed and gunky. At present they both have sawdust and pixie has toilet paper bedding, diesel still has the cotton wool stuff. Now the babies feet have grown the disabled one really shows badly  poor little thing cant use that leg at all by the looks of it. I do love my mice and i dont care if they arent perfect, as long as they are healthy...tho i don't think they are particularly! I wish i knew what to do with them lol any advice would be great


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

pixies bald patch








injured baby
















whole litter


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

Anyone got any advice on the baldness or the injured pup? Oh and when can i clean their cage out coz they stink now! they are 8 days old today...


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

I should treat her against parasites.. Maybe that will help.
And I personally would cull the injured baby, 'cause it doesnt look healthy


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Personally, I prefer not to use wood shavings, though plenty of folks here use aspen. Pine and cedar can be dangerous for the lungs of the mice. They have volatile oils (you can smell them) that irritate the delicate tissues of the lungs and can cause respiratory distress or infection. That kind of thing could cause the cold-like symptoms you're seeing in Diesel. You're right that that foot still looks pretty awful.  Almost like there's still some kind of thread wrapped around all his toes.
As a group they look really cute, the spotty little bubs. How is the one with the injured tail doing? I myself have two mice who've survived tail injuries: one who was injured at the store, and another who escaped into a guinea pig cage where it was chewed. They do quite well so long as they don't get infected in that initial injury.


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## kellyc88 (May 18, 2011)

so what would you use? Theres no thread left now on the injured pup, but obviously the foot is in a bad way. I want to know if, being a mouse in a cage, can it have a nice happy life besides the injury? I will cull her if its the right thing to do but im not comfortable with killing anything! I really dont want to have to do it! The one with the injured tail is ok, a lot smaller than the others but still chugging along. Its colourings are adorable...Has like a black crown on its head. (the black one facing away in the last pic is the injured tail pup) Their mum has a tail kink, which she had when we got her and it doesnt seem to bother her. 
Mouse keeping seemed so simple when i got them! Cage, woodshavings, bedding, food: Done! Now i have a litter i didnt expect, two balding mice and two injured pups! who knew there was such a big margin for error! It seems i have got everything wrong so far :? 
Anyway im trying to pick up some fish tanks to get them out of the rotastak cages, and as soon as a good alternative is offered i will switch the bedding etc. Oh and any advice on parasite control in case that is the problem? You guys are life savers btw! Thanks


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

For parasites I use stuff from Beaphar. But I live in Holland so I don't know if you got it there.. 
For bedding I use sort of Aubiose and I'm really positive about it! It absorbs pee really good, and also my mice have no sneezing or anything..

I would not take the risk with the pup and his injured foot. It looks bad, and I think it will not get better.. But it's your descision.. Good luck !


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I've seen mice that live just fine with no foot at all, much less a deformed one. I agree that it probably won't be getting any better, but it's hard to tell whether it'll impede his life. I also keep chickens, and birth defects are really quite common amongst chicks. When we're talking about an animal's quality of life, it's hard to remember that most animals don't realize that they're disabled. If they hurt, they know that. If they get picked on by other animals, they know that. But they don't know that they look different. They don't know that it isn't normal for them to have to walk differently from the others. If he appears to be hurting, or he's not going to be mobile, that's one thing. Do what you think is right, and don't let your decision haunt you either way.


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