# Second Litter - Banded Doe



## Boggles (Dec 4, 2011)

About a week after I picked up the first of my mice and a litter of 4, the grey banded doe decided to have 3 babies. They are a couple days old now, so I figured I'd show pictures. Two of them have red eyes and one has black. One of the red eyes ones is female. I'm surprised because the mom is a grey banded mouse and we determined that the dad was a brindle from the first litter, and all of these babies seem to have white fur. I'm stumped. I guess we'll see as they get more fur in.



























Mom


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

If the father was also a banded (brindle or otherwise), the black eyed mouse could be a charlie, or BEW, you usually see pigment on the skin at a few days old. The PE's could be something like dove or possibly albino is you don't know what the parents carried.


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## Boggles (Dec 4, 2011)

Such a mystery. This would be so much easier if I knew what the dad was.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Idk how much you know about Bandeds, but here's a link to a great website made by one of the member's here.

http://www.fancymice.info/whattolookforbanded.htm


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## Boggles (Dec 4, 2011)

Thank you for that article! I'm not breeding for banded, but it's really nice to know what's going on with these babies. I appreciate it.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Aww!


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## Tikmio (Oct 9, 2011)

Look like fat healthy babies. That's for sure.


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## Boggles (Dec 4, 2011)

Yep! They sure are chubby little things. I think the small litter size helped.


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## Tikmio (Oct 9, 2011)

It really does help the babies and the mama for sure. I just had a litter of 2 satin piebald argente bucks, and they were the healthiest little buggers


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## mousekid98 (Apr 7, 2012)

nice mice


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## MissStitches (Mar 31, 2012)

I can't believe how fat they are! They're gonna be so healthy. As for the colour, I'm not positive on what it is yet. But dang those are nice pups.


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## Boggles (Dec 4, 2011)

Well, they all turned out to be white. My question is, if I'm trying to breed brindle, is there any reason to keep any of these mice? We've figured out that Dad was a brindle, so these guys carry the gene, but don't express it. Should I put the female white to one of my brindle males from the other litter? Or are these guys useless to me? (There's two red eyed whites-one make one female, and one BEW male).


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## Tikmio (Oct 9, 2011)

Brindle is a dominant gene. So I don't see how the babies can be BEW, and 'carry' brindle. If they are PEW, they could be brindle under the PEW. If you have a PEW doe from this litter, you should keep it and breed it to a brindle for possible brindles, I would think. I would not breed the BEWs, because they are not brindle.

Of coarse, I'm a newbie. So someone else with more XP on this can give better info.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

BEW is caused by genes that can hide brindle. The mouse is still brindle, but either c-dilutions are blanking out all the orange pigment, or a white spotting gene has taken over. In this case, there's a pretty good chance it's the banded gene taking over, since at least one parent is banded. Unfortunately, since brindle is a dominant variety, and your doe is not brindle, you can't tell which of the babies will have gotten Avy from the father, and which will not have. Since the doe had no copies of the gene, and dad might have only had one, there's a chance only half or even none of the babies actually are actually Avy, but simply PEWs and a banded. If you were breeding for banded, the BEW could be helpful, but you're breeding for brindle, making this litter a bust, I'm afraid.


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## Tikmio (Oct 9, 2011)

Wrong again, lol. That's Me!

Oh yeah, because BEW can be caused by spotting covering the entire body?.. So it could be a piebald brindle...


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## Boggles (Dec 4, 2011)

Thank you both for the information. Darn. I had a feeling that that would be the case. Honestly, I wasn't planning on keeping any of the bubs from either litter (because I don't have or know the Dad), but changed my mind after three of the babies in litter 1 turned out brindle. I was just didn't want to make any choices of who to keep till I understood whether or not these ones could be used in my breeding plans.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

If you are really just I just set on breeding brindle, I would take the BEW male and breed him to a couple unbanded/unrelated females. There is a 50% the BEW is brindle, so if you're willing to cull the resulting litters to test breed it, I'd go for it. This F1 generation would all be banded though, you'd want to breed any banded brindles back to banded siblings for 25% chance at selves (75% chance at brindle if both are brindle), or an unrelated mouse for 50% selves, 50% brindle.


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