# Losing Mice To Breech Babies



## blackbirdmice (Oct 27, 2012)

I had this happen the other day to one of my most favorite mice. She was 9 months old and it was her second pregnancy. Her first pregnancy was flawless and I did everything I normally do. I know it was a breech baby because I found her dead in the nest with a half delivered baby still inside her, its lower half was hanging out of her and it was very awful way to die. Now I am insanely nervous to breed second litters on some of my mice. I was wonder how common or rare it is for this to happen.


Rest in peace my sweet Moon <3


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## thammy24 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear that you lost one of your favorite mice.

Maybe a nanny can help? an older mouse who's given birth a few times already. Humans don't always give enough credit to a mouse's understanding and I've heard (on this forum or another forum) of a mouse calling for help to the owner because its cage mate was sick... That and they might realize its stuck and to pull it out (and probably eat it though) so the mother still lives and can hopefully deliver the rest of the babies. That's the only advice I can give and it's only based on the fact that sometimes animals amaze me. It might not prevent it every time but maybe sometimes it does, you probably would never find out the times nannies help with difficult births though, because often us owners often don't even witness the birth so this is completely an assumption or theory that nannies might be able to help.

Another thing you can do it just to check up on the mice that you know are delivering every half hour or something. but you don't want to disturb the mom too much though, that's why I suggest every half hr, not every 15 min.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

9 months is old for a breeding doe,complications are more likely.If you start your does breeding at 10 to 12 weeks old you should easily get a second litter before 9 months and reduce the risks associated with age.


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## Rorschach (May 29, 2013)

I definitely would breed with nannys for the Moms. 
Personally, I like to get two litters at the same time, so IF one mouse dies, the other one can take care of her babies. This happened to me one time and I was absolutely amazed how easy the second mom accepted her role and adopted the other babies.
I love to watch my does giving birth and how the nannys take care of them during this process. They make sure the nest is alright, they eat the afterbirth and clean the newborns.. 
I've had your problem once with a rat of mine, that's nearly 4 years ago. She was just too young to give birth.
So I guess breeching shows up more often to mice that are either too young or too old to give birth.


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## blackbirdmice (Oct 27, 2012)

Thank you for the responses. She did have two nannies with her (her daughters, one who had a litter a few days prior) when it happened. I've read that mice can have litters up to a year safely?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

'can' being the operative word.They are past their breeding prime and not only is there a greater risk to their health but the litters themselves are often lacking in strength and vitality.Best to start at 10 to 12 weeks and have 1 to 3 litters with a shortish break inbetween weaning and mating of 2 or 3 weeks.You will have completed breeding by 9 months with the does at their best and can retire them.


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## blackbirdmice (Oct 27, 2012)

Thank you Sarah, when do you consider them out of their breeding prime? 6 months?


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## silverdawn92 (Jan 13, 2013)

My mice have just now stopped breeding on their own at barely a year old and have had no complications... it all depends on the mouse, though most around here don't breed them past half a year or slightly over because of the complications associated with older mice and the birthing process. I think this is why my mouse killed her litter overnight... When I woke up, there was no blood in the bedding but the babies were all gone. I saved the body of the one that appeared to have died from suffocation the night of the birth to do a necropsy and look for complications or abnormalities that would point to a different cause of death. If he truly did die from suffocation, he may have gotten stuck, which would explain why she looked rather ill for a while and acted traumatized. Her cagemate must have pulled the baby out if that's what happened.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I got really, really lucky breeding my now-13 month old doe for the first time (her babies are now a week old). Sadly the whole point to the litter was to recover RY and it didn't pop up (well, it's not looking like it). Anyway, a breeder I got a couple of does from said she had once taken a mouse in to the vet as it was having trouble giving birth (3rd litter). She suspects the error was all her as she felt she didn't leave enough time between the second and third litters. The vet opened up the mouse and said the babies looked too large to pass.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

blackbirdmice said:


> Thank you Sarah, when do you consider them out of their breeding prime? 6 months?


 I probably would.I've not really thought so much of exact time limits but I notice that second and third litters are better than first and fourth generally.I have sex linked brindle mice and as they are frequently on the verge of extinction I'm forced to breed more litters and from older does and I'm mostly disappointed with the results and end up culling the litters because they are poor/weak animals.Same applies to ones that are special in some way and which I'm desperate to duplicate.There are exceptions of course.I think if you do want to breed over a longer period of time that having much of a break to rest the doe inbetween is a mistake,you need to keep them going providing their health is good.


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