# New mice from PA get together! Babies too!



## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Female broken Brindle:









Male poor banded blue caracul:









light blue? Possibly something else, rex doe:









BABIES! One is a caracul, and one is rex as far as I can tell:


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

That first pic is a mouse? 

The blue looks more belted than banded.

The next doe is likely a too-brown lilac (blue + chocolate)

And those babies are likely the same gene. What are the parents?


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## MarlaAlVutha (Nov 7, 2009)

Rhasputin said:


> Male poor banded blue caracul:


The male is a blue, much bluer than the picture shows. He is out of a blue broken caracul and blue caracul.



Rhasputin said:


> light blue? Possibly something else, rex doe:


The doe is a lilac, not as dark as the picture shows. She is a sister to the buck.



Rhasputin said:


> BABIES! One is a caracul, and one is rex as far as I can tell:


[/quote]

Both of the babies are lilac and much lighter than the pic shows.


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

Wait, she got those babies at the show, from you Brenda? Did she also get their mother?


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Cute mice!!  
Please excuse my ignorance but what is a caracul? Does it refer to breed, coat type or colour?


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

It's one of the genes that causes a curly coat.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

For all intents and purposes, it is not distinguishable from rex (Re/*). Some people maintain that there is a difference, but I've never found one.

I don't know why anybody would ever sell mice so young, especially at a show.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

They came all together! And they weren't sold. They were given to me. Mother, father, and all. I think it's fine.

I think there is a slightly noticeable difference between caracul and rex. VERY slight. The reason I think that one baby is caracul, and one may be rex, is that their coats look similar, but feel very different. I have no idea. :roll:

I was thinking the doe might be chocolate+blue of some sort. 
The babies and dad are almost the exact same colour, but it's true, they're a bit lighter than they appear in the pictures.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Most reputable clubs have rules in place against the transfer (selling, giving, trading) of mice under a certain age, especially at shows and public events. That's why I'm surprised. This is done to ensure adequate physical and psychosocial development of the mice in question, but also to prevent illness and in some ways is as important as the standard quarantine. Mice weaned too early or given away with their mother too early may be immuno-compromised, but also some diseases don't show up until after weaning so you could transfer disease by transferring too-young mice. That's why most clubs have this guideline in place.

I found this page from the RMCA, which speaks specifically of Sendai and cites multiple DVM sources in case you're interested:

http://www.rmca.org/Articles/sendai.htm

Of the subclinical phase it says (in part):



> ..._t is common for colonies of mice to carry the disease subclinically. The adults seem to develop an immunity to it; because of that developed immunity, the mother mice passively give that immunity to their offspring through their milk. When the natural immunity from mother is gone for the young mice at four to six weeks of age, the babies will then be infected with the disease and those that do not die will also develop an acquired immunity to it..._


_

You can see the dangers of the subclinical phase and selling/transferring mice too young. Sendai is only one example, though: there are other communicable rodent diseases in the US which can operate similarly, like SDA and murine hepatitis.

This is why selling mice too young (whether with or without the mother) violates quarantine procedures for every reputable club I'm familiar with. In 1999 there was a big scare with a bunch of rat breeders where many lost most of their stock due to the lapse in judgment of one breeder who sold rats too young. If she had kept them to proper weaning age and realized they were infected with Sendai (after weaning) not only could she have spared half a dozen people the heartache of losing their animals, but she also could have protected her own animals better.

This kind of irresponsibility really gets to me, because I have spent thousands of dollars on the purchase, upkeep, and maintenance of my animals and to think that they could possibly be at risk at any show because somebody is selling too-young animals is a totally unneeded worry. There are three levels of accountability where something can be done: the club who allows transfer of such young animals, the person doing the transfer, and the person receiving the animals. Any party can always say "no" when somebody tries to sell too-young animals, even when they have the best of intentions or don't realize what a mistake they are making. It never hurts to educate them and let them know of the dangers. Most people who make this mistake are not bad people. But they're ignorant.

I wonder if the off-colored blues aren't a/a d/d B/b (blue carrying chocolate)? Sometimes this genotype can look "almost" like lilac. They're VERY cute! _


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## tanzaniterose (Apr 28, 2010)

Very nice post Jack, I completely agree, and it's not just in the mouse/rat world that this is happening, there are very few breeders that hold their animals ethics in high regard these days all across the globe. I shan't ruin Rhasputin's thread with my ranting though (although if there's a thread that I can do it in I shall!) and I will just demand more photos of those rex/caracul babies! :lol:


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## miss.understood (Apr 20, 2010)

curly babies *wants*


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## ccoryjohnn (Jul 2, 2010)

they are all so adorable. im living in pa and i think im going to be trying to get some mice some more color in them. right now i own two pet mice, both of which are broken blacks. and the female is due on the 21-ish


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