# Emerald Coast ramblings



## jadeguppy

I think I have decided to call my mousery the Emerald Coast Mousery since I live on the Emerald Coast (upper Gulf of Mexico) and love the green blue color of the water here.

I've settled on working with three varieties, black tan/fox, black based tricolor, and e/e. I recenly received three typie mice from Gypsy, a male splash/rex, a female splash/rex, and a black buck. I've put the splashed doe in with a black pied angora buck, but can't tell if she is pregnant yet. Today I moved three black pied does in with the splashed buck and he got to work immediatly. Hopefully between the four does I will get some tricolors.

I'm considering putting my black poor tan in with her argente (e/E) tan son in hope of improving the belly color. I'll probably decide later today.

I think the three e/e does need to wait a little longer until I breed them. They are petstore mice, but I'm hopeful that pairing with a typie black buck and careful breeding will have good results. Here is what they look like:




























Wish me luck.


----------



## Frizzle

Lots of luck wished. Love the name, btw!


----------



## moustress

Me too!

And, I must say, your girls look to be in peak condition. That self recessive yellow looks like a little minx.


----------



## jadeguppy

LOL. Thanks for the luck and votes on the name. THe self was suppose to be a boy. I didn't check since the guy whom I bought from usually does a good job telling the difference and girls don't usually get called boys. :shock: Now I have to figure out who to breed them to. I'm thinking of going straight to the typie black buck and then crossing a buck(s) back to them. I'm rather happy with their color, especially being from snake food bins.


----------



## jadeguppy

I'm happy to say that the splashed doe from Gypsy has put on 6g in the past week.  She will be getting moved to her own area in the next few days.

The three black pied that have been paired with the eager bever male are all at the same weight as last week. I know he has been trying though.


----------



## SarahY

The self has really nice colour for an American recessive red!


----------



## jadeguppy

Thanks. Can you believe she came from a snake feeder bin? Apparently the store and previous store had been breeding them for about three years and just kept the e/e because they liked how they look. The owner had no idea about the genetics.

What do you all think of crossing the three e/e with a typie black buck and then back crossing?


----------



## Emfa Mouse

Very pretty mice and I love the name!


----------



## tinyhartmouseries

Black generally makes the ry sootier. If you can get ahold of chocolate mice, ry can be enhanced by chocolate, or at least, have no detriment to the ry. I have been using black but it is becoming apparent that I am pushing my luck.


----------



## jadeguppy

Thanks emfa

Tiny, how much damage to the color will one crossing do? I highly doubt I can get my hands on a chocolate. I don't want their color to get sooty, that is for sure! Would it be worth waiting another six months to find a chocolate, going and getting a male ry from the bin, and focusing on coat length instead?


----------



## tinyhartmouseries

I did one crossing with no detriment to the standard coats...the satin coated baby was sooty her whole life. It is hit and miss, definitely. If you'd like, I can work on an ry male for you, but we would have to work out transport.

I have a chocolate tan buck too, but I am waiting to see if he is angora or not. If not, he will be available.


----------



## jadeguppy

I would love to work with you, but I hesitate to use up your time without a way to get the mice. I don't know of any way short of shipping to get mice from your area to here.

Does the sooty color continue into the next generation? My end goal is long (1"+) coated satin angora ry. Pied or self, I like both.


----------



## Laigaie

You know, I could pass Yam back to you, if you like. He's agouti-based and pink-eyed, but satin longhair ry. He definitely produces lovely fluffy babies.


----------



## tinyhartmouseries

> Does the sooty color continue into the next generation?


Yes. I did one more breeding with the sooty satin with a black tan, to try to get satin black tans, and instead got 4 very sooty RY and one OK one...it's not recommened by me...I won't anymore.


----------



## jadeguppy

Okay. Thanks for the offer Laigaie. I went back to the store and found one black eyed, ry, satin, angora male. He is being put in qt. I'll work on the coat length and color until I can get a good show ry or show chocolate to cross for better type.


----------



## jadeguppy

Christmas babies! The splashed doe gave birth this morning. I really hope she is done because I count 14 in the nest. I don't have a doe I can foster them on unfortunatly. If successful this will be my first tricolor litter. I really dislike the idea of culling before I can see colors for fear that I may cull the tricolors. Decisions Decisions


----------



## moustress

Congratulations! BTW, my RY's usually lose their sootiness as they mature. Perhaps I can send some your way if we ever get a mousie train running again. I (and it tickles to say this) have RY mousies coming out of my ears.

(oh no....EEEEKITY...furry nose and whiskers!!...OMG!! yahahahah...OHMY!)


----------



## jadeguppy

LOL, That would be great.


----------



## tinyhartmouseries

I am a bit of a hypocrite, I guess...you can call me on it for sure. In an effort to improve type on my RY's, I've paired my clearest RY to black selves with good type....we'll see, I will keep you informed for sure. Bad me!


----------



## jadeguppy

LOL.

Well, I took pictures of the litter today and removed a runt. Do you see any potential tricolors?


----------



## Emfa Mouse

What cute little squishies!


----------



## Laigaie

Honestly, I only see one that even looks piebald! See her, with the splotch between the shoulder blades and the big blaze up from the nose? If they're big enough now that you're not worried about pulling them out and getting pics straight on from above, you should be able to see how many are self and how many are marked.


----------



## Frizzle

^^^
There is also one with a head blaze that I can see, but idk if that counts for piebalding, or if it maybe had some markings on the other side of its body.


----------



## moustress

If this is my splashed that you bred...can't remember if you were the one that got that off the truck...it's from a PEW/tricolor pairing, so the chances of having tricolors are somewhat reduced. If your mousie has a dilution, there is a 25% chance. Am I preaching to the choir? 

My tricolors ranged from dark splashed that looked like granite with very fine even splashing on a chocolate background to palest cream splashing, and probably bone that could be seen ony by searching for it in blowups of pix. I would suspect that the darkest ones aren't what you are looking for right now, but if you want bold tris, you should stick with the darker ones. I know it's frustrating when you have so freaking many of them....and all in one litter. the doe may be smart enough to make a separate nest and nurse them in two shifts. A couple of my does have done that.


----------



## jadeguppy

The doe is from Gypsytails. Unfortunatly, I've never had one of your trucks come this way. If I don't get tris this litter, I'll have to figure out who best to keep and breed to get tris in the next generation.

I do still have hope though. My three black pied does are pregnant and about to blow. They were paired with a splashed buck for Gypsy.

On a sad note, my vet put down one of my two himi does. She had a mammory tumor that was getting huge. I really like my vet. She offered to remove it, but also said that it would probably come back quickly. She also immediatly knew it was a mammory tumor. It is wonderful to have a vet that knows her exotics! She also saw my "new" ferret today. New for me, but he is two years old. He got a clean bill of health. The issues that I was worried about like the ears turned out to be the prior lack of cleaning and not mites.  It was nice to get some good news to keep my cheered today.


----------



## jadeguppy

I seem to have several in that litter with the same head blaze marking. Curious.

The biggest bied black preggo has a huge belly. I don't know if she woudl even fit into the swallowed a golf ball category any more. I thought for sure she would have had the babies by now.

On a side note, what is your opinion on feeding Zupreem Grain Free ferret food to pregnant and nursing does? It has 40% protein and 18% fat. The pieces are small sized. I'm thinking a piece of that coudl go a long way in helping a doe out.


----------



## moustress

Depends on the other ingredients, I'd guess. I want to start keeping timothy for my meeces. It smells so fresh to me; it really does a nice job of freshening the air. I'm concerned about dust. Do you have any experience with this kind of thing? and I wonder about oat grass and wheat grass....they taste good to me, and I bet the meeces would love it!

40% protein is pretty high, but then I feed scrambled egg to mine which is darn near 100% protein. I have had some does who always go for that before the kibble. And that reminds me that I saved a wing bone with a little meat on it for my mooskies.

Yikes. There goes the year....and there goes Samoa....


----------



## jadeguppy

I bought a bail of alfalfa hay and it needed seperated outside due to the dust. I have a small bag of timothy hay that I got in a pet store and I put in a small amount for my nest builders. I found that using too much in my small room became an overpowering smell. They don't seem to shred it like gerbils do.

I'd love to make them scrambled eggs every night, but I know that won't happen. This is why I'm looking for an alternative that doesn't spoil like eggs or milk. Have you seen this: Wysong Ferret Epigen 90 Ferret Food? I may be buying some for my ferret. Here is the break down: 
Ingredients:
Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of Vitamin E), Chicken Giblets, Gelatin (source of collagen and proteoglycans), Apple (source of soluble fiber), Beet Pulp (source of prebiotics), Plums (antioxidant source), Inulin (prebiotic), Blueberries (antioxidant source), Tomato (source of lutein), Taurine (amino acid), Oregano Extract (antioxidant source), Sage Extract (antioxidant source), Rosemary Extract (antioxidant source), Probiotic Microorganisms (Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis), Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement

Guaranteed Analysis: 
Crude Protein (Min).....................60.0%
Crude Fat (Min)..........................20.0%
Crude Fiber (Max).......................3.5%
Moisture (Max)...........................11.0%

Not something I'd want to feed as the main food, but a major protein punch for a preggo or nursing doe. I wonder how it compares to the benefits of eggs or whey protein.

On another note, here ar some pics of the first possible tri litter. Do you think these bubs may be tri? There are a bunch of blacks witht he blaze, but these look like I may have hope.


----------



## Frizzle

I don't breed tris, but I'd think so! Just how the patches are such a different shade, for sure the first one. My spotted ones seemed to color head to butt, so I can't say for the other two in the first pic simply because the lighter shades are toward the butt.


----------



## moustress

Yes! I think at least two of the trio, for sure. Probably all three.


----------



## jadeguppy

Yea!


----------



## jadeguppy

My first tri litter is getting bigger. However, the "tris" look more like pied splashed. Any idea what the cause may be? Looking at the three black pied/splahed buck crosses the babies look to be black. Fur isn't in, but pigment has shown up. Now I have to figure out where to go from here. My ry are coming of age, so I will probably breed them as the "tris" mature. I'll work on getting some updated pics this weekend.

On a ferret note, podo and kodo are getting use to me. I think they are younger than I originally thought. They are now wanting to play with me and I'm working on teaching them that their teeth are sharp and my skin is thin. :lol: OUCH! They go to the vet Tuesday so she may be able to give me a better idea on their age. SHe was able to tell that Noodles is about two years old based on his teeth.


----------



## moustress

Splashed and tris come from the same general group of genes. The nature of the colored parts and the white parts vary depending on which c dilutes and what kind of markings are present. You will get meeces who don't show and splashing or tricoloring, but they can be bred and will produce some splashed or tricolor offspring. The ones who show both tricolors and splashes can be very pretty, and I like them a lot.

With my first 'tri' doe, who was pied beige paired with a nice tricolor buck, I got only one tricolor in the first litter. A few were weakly splashed. I bred the buck back to the mother to get a few more...it takes a little time to work it out, that's all. It's in there.

For mousies that come up to show standards, you most likely need black based tris, c^e and c, and lots of white markings. You can extract what you want by careful breeding over a period of time. It may take three to six months to get closer to what you want. this is why some folks buy breeding stock from other breeders: so they don't have to work it out on their own.

I think this way is more fun!


----------



## jadeguppy

Well, I'm on my way working with it. I'll probasbly be posting bubs soon to get some help with possible genetics.

I got a nice surprise when I checked in on the splashed GYP doe today. I was actually showing someone the babies when I noticed a pew had curly hair. I forgot that the splashed carried rex, which I wanted for my ry angora line. I'm not wondering if the daddy, who unfortunatly passed, was a carrier. Has anyone seen waves with only one gene instead of a pair? I'm so excited over this find. I almost culled all the pink eyes earlier in the week, but decided to wait for the weekend. WHEW! Good decision!


----------



## moustress

That sounds good; I have a few curly splashed from my truck mousies, and they are very interesting. I don't know if I've posted any pix of those guys for ages. I got a number of interesting things from those mousies. I have a couple of brindle tris that really make me scratch my head. Pastel brindles showing a couple of different colors, one short haired, another long haired.

I'm greatly looking forward to see pix of yours when they are fully furred and grown a bit. The tri/splashed mousies are so unpredictable when you are just starting out and mixing it up.


----------



## Cait

jadeguppy said:


> Has anyone seen waves with only one gene instead of a pair?


In the UK we have a dominant astrex as well as a recessive version. Or are you saying that neither parent had wavy fur? If so then it would have to be recessive.


----------



## jadeguppy

I don't know what the splashed looked like as a bub. She was fully grown when I got her.

Here are some updated pics of my Christmas bubs:




































I don't have anyone with the tricolor puddles of color, but I definatly have more splashed.


----------



## moustress

Have you sexed them yet?


----------



## peztree3

jadeguppy, I like the bedding you used in the pics, what kind is that?


----------



## jadeguppy

11 females, 2 males

pez: that is the sani-chips from nationapetpharmacy.com I have a regular auto-ship order for mouse supplies and dog food so I dont' pay shipping. Very low price for a bag that is huge. I store it in a garbage container for easy access on cleaning day and the bag won't all fit. I usually put in a handful of the shreded aspen for bedding. The pics were taken in a holding container.


----------



## jadeguppy

Off the mousie topic: Ferts Podo and Kodo had their vet visit today. Kodo is the heavier one at 1.9 pounds. Both received clean bills of health and were estimated to be 6 to 9 months old.


----------



## Emfa Mouse

Yay!! Healthy mice!!


----------



## moustress

Emfa: mouse = 1.9 lbs. :? Quick, call the newshounds!


----------



## jadeguppy

ferts=ferrets
Podo and Kodo are two ferrets that someone was giving away and I took in.


----------



## Emfa Mouse

:lol: my bad!!


----------



## jadeguppy

Butterscotch and Mrs. Phantom, two of my classroom mice, were bred. I had them in the same cage. Big mistake. Friday morning I found that Butterscotch had given birth and the entire litter was culled. I've brought Butterscotch home and am trying to let her foster two mice from other does. She has accepted them. My only concern now is if I got them to her in time for her to still be producing milk. It was that afternoon when I introduced them, so I have my fingers crossed.


----------



## Gill

If it is of any help, I had a doe whose first litter was born dead, but, 48 hours later she successfully nursed pinkies from another litter. Just keep checking the pinkies - if you can see milk in their tummies, then she is feeding them.

You say that she was still in with the buck when her litter was born. This means that she is almost certainly pregnant again, and it is equally likely that he did the culling.


----------



## jadeguppy

48 hrs, that is good news! Maybe the litter was still born. There weren't any whole ones left for me to weigh to check size. She was in with another pregnant female. The male was miles away, literally. The only bubs I had avalable already havecolor and are just short of their eyes opening. She has taken to them though.


----------



## jadeguppy

How about these odds. I paired three of my black pied to Gyspy splashed buck. Of those pairings, I have found out that everyone carried blue. Nice discovery. However, not a single splashed or tricolor has shown up. I've got nothing but blues and blacks with some rex in the mix. Numbers in the litters: 11, 12, and 13! Murphy strikes again.


----------



## jadeguppy

Mrs. Phantom had 9 babies, two may be tricolors. *fingers crossed*

Three ry girls have been placed with a high quality black buck. None are showing yet though. I decided to give him a try with them since I lost the only male ry I had to a heart attack induced my my ferret saying hi. No more stand alone cages on the counter.


----------



## jadeguppy

It has been a long time since I've posted, but I'm still into the mice. I have been busy getting my ferret rescue situated. I managed to buy a used three story ferret nation cage, but decided to refinish it due to some peeling and powedery rust. Of cousre, I couldn't match the pait so I have been repainting the entire thing. I've also been busy going to weekend adoption days. Not to mention keepign the mice and ferret cages clean. As for the mice, I have not been able to get any tricolors. I have my fingers crossed regarding one of Ms.Phantom's grandbubs, but I'm not sure yet. I'm working to establish a fawn line. I have two that should give birth in the next week or so. I lost all but one of the original fawns, so one pair is the babes from the fawn x show black crosses and one is the original fawn doe I still have and one of the males from the former crossing. I've seen immediate improvement in type after crossing with the higher quality mice, but just haven't gotten the proper genetic mixes. I'm starting to wonder if I have the proper c-dilutes for the tricolors.


----------



## jadeguppy

YEA! I was about to give up on getting any tricolors. I returned to school today to find that the mice now have fur and I have a tricolor.    Finally! It is Ms. Phantom's grandbaby. I will definatly be breeding the parents again. Thank you everyone who helped me with this endevor.

My first back cross of fawns was also born/found yesterday. I really hope I get a good crossing and regain some black eyed fawns.


----------



## Laigaie

Yay! Always exciting to see happy and surprising things when the pups fur up!


----------



## jadeguppy

Well, things turned out badly for my first tris. The original one failed to thrive and the second litter had a mommy that decided to eat the tris and leave me the blahs. However, I have a new pairing between a splashed female and a pied male that has really big splotches. They have thrown multiple tris, several with good white spots. I also now have a tower for my angora fawns and a few offspring that I can start breeding. I was worried I would lose the genetics, but managed to salvage what I had. I've cut down to 12 cages/ three towers with only one male lab cage and he was a pet return that will be going to a new home today. I've had 3 to 4 rescue dogs in addition to my two this summer and now have 6 rescue ferrets in addition to my 3. My first ferret, noodles passed last week. It has been a rollercoaster ride this summer.


----------



## moustress

Don't be disheartened as you never know what might come from another breeding with the ones you have left. I started with one pied beige who'd been bred to a really good tri buck and a couple of other tri/splashed carriers.


----------



## jadeguppy

Well, I've paired up two of my frist tricolors. This will be my first tri/tri generation. I'm also plannig to pair up some fawn for my satin angora black eyed fawn line.


----------

