# Public awareness - fancy mice and breeding as a hobby



## MojoMouse

In this country most people know about mice being pests or kid's pets. That's pretty much all, well apart from reptile owners of course, who know a bit about rodents. In general though, people have no idea that breeding fancy mice is a hobby. The only mice other than wild type many have seen is cow mice in pet shops - not the best examples of fancy mice.

I was thinking that maybe it's because the fancy mouse community in Aus is really small. Also, our "fancy" mice are basically pet types anyway.

In countries like the UK where you have seriously spectacular show mice, and a club such as the NMC that's been around forever, are people in general aware that breeding and showing fancy mice is a real hobby? Does the average person know what a show type mouse is?

I'm just curious.


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## Jack Garcia

In the US, most people don't know very much about mice.

I have been asked the following questions:

"Do mice turn into rats?" (I usually say no, they turn into octopuses.)

"What do you do with them?" (I tell people that I eat them.)

"Do they bite?" (I indicated that they will bite only if you ask nicely and pay them enough.)

"What made you like mice?" (I say the taste.)

"What do you feed them?" (I claim to feed them kangaroos...but that's actually true.)

"Will they give you a disease?" (I sometimes say just the plague, but that's nothing to worry about.)


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## Seafolly

Jack Garcia said:


> In the US, most people don't know very much about mice.
> 
> I have been asked the following questions:
> 
> "Do mice turn into rats?" (I usually say no, they turn into octopuses.)
> 
> "Will they give you a disease?" (I sometimes say just the plague, but that's nothing to worry about.)


Favourites. <3

I don't know, I think it depends on how aware people are of the animal world in general. If you can keep it in captivity somewhat legally and it can reproduce, someone breeds it as a hobby or even a business. People collect everything under the sun, breeding rodents shouldn't come as a surprise. But the mouse community seems very small in Canada, if it exists at all. Anyway, I think some folks would be just as surprised to hear someone breeds cats as a hobby. It sort of depends on what areas of interest people are aware of as not everyone has/wants pets so wouldn't naturally come across it.

My brain is a bit fried.


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## MojoMouse

Jack, :lol: All true!

Seafolly, I'm surprised that there aren't more mouse breeders in Canada. The only country I know of that mice seem well known and popular is Japan, but they've got a long history in their mouse fancy. I think the hobby may be quite well known in the UK, or, at least, more well known than most places.


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## SarahC

MojoMouse said:


> In countries like the UK where you have seriously spectacular show mice, and a club such as the NMC that's been around forever, are people in general aware that breeding and showing fancy mice is a real hobby? Does the average person know what a show type mouse is?
> 
> I'm just curious.


No they aren't.Dogs are the only animal that all people are aware of as a show animal.


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## Jack Garcia

Well, I'm also involved in the bacteria fancy, where we keep and breed bacteria to preset show standards. Not many people have heard of this. The fancy started in France about a hundred and fifty years ago and isn't very common in this country, but we meet a few times per year and a trained judge looks over our bacteria (under a microscope) to see whose is best according to the standard. You'd be amazed at the differences that people who aren't familiar with bacteria take for granted. I belong to the United Bacteria Club, and I pay dues every year. There are a couple dozen varieties of bacteria, but I only breed three kinds myself. I've won BIS twice, but there's no money involved. We do it just for fun.

Not really, of course, but that's what we ALL sound like to people who aren't involved in small animal fancies!


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## Shadowrunner

And here I was getting excited, thinking you were serious for a moment. (because I'm a wierdo)
But that makes sense.

The only animal people here know about (and by here I mean Maryland) other than dogs is horses, 
and even then they think racing, not dressage.

Maybe i should print up a gazillion flyers and hand them out.


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## MojoMouse

You really know how to make your point, Jack. :lol: Guess we do seem a bit odd...

SarahC, I'm really surprised about that! I wonder why - I mean, the UK has such amazing mouse standards - you'd think it would be at least a bit known out of the active mouse community.

Shadowrunner, I did the flyer thing a couple of years ago and put them in vets, and heaps of places. I also got a couple of friends (non mouse people) to help me on a stall we set up for a community "people and pets" day in a local park. They had around 10,000 people go through. The reaction of people to the mice was amazing, and I had a constant supply of pet homes for about a year. I didn't do any more promo stuff after that, and the interest and local awareness dropped off eventually.

That kind of stuff is only local, though, and never has much of an impact. What we need is limelight people like Hugh Jackman, Ian Thorpe, Cate Blanchette etc talking about how much they love their pet mice, and how breeding them is a challenging, rewarding hobby.  That would get the idea around.

I suppose I just like the idea of a larger mouse fancier community. It would make it more fun and challenging. A lot of the time I feel like I'm breeding to imaginary standards, in a vacuum, and it's a bit pointless. But I just enjoy the mice and breeding them so much...


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## Jack Garcia

Amy Winehouse was known to breed mice, although I don't know if she was affiliated with any particular clubs (I would doubt that she was). I had a mouse named after her a few years ago.

In her lifetime she was treated unfairly by the media for a lot of reasons, including her handling of baby mice. Here's a news article from that time period (although remember that it's inaccurate about the husbandry of mice): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... -mice.html


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## MojoMouse

I just looked at the blue lit video of her with her mouse babies. A bit strange... but whatever, it's not like it was about breeding and showing mice or anything, so it's not really that relevant. The clip has nearly 3 million views though, and a lot of hostile comments. Perhaps not the best PR...


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## SarahY

If I had a pound for every time time that upon finding out I show mice, people ask "what happens at a mouse show? Do you walk them round on a little lead like at Crufts?" :roll:


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## PPVallhunds

no one i know (outside of the mouse world that it) know about showing mice, all know about shwoing dogs, some know about showing cats, rabbits, birds and cattle but thats is, no one seems to know about showing gpigs, fish, rats, ect. Allthough mice in my area dont seem to be popular pets either.


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## Shadowrunner

That article cited PETA, therefore I can't take it seriously. 
Poor chick had a lot of hate poured on her by "experts"

xD I can't get them that far into the conversation.
After I explain I breed them for show I get the "you must be crazy" look and shuffle.

I get the "how many do you have" question a lot too.
the looks I get on that one are the funniest. 
Me: "um...*looks at the sky counting* ...roughly 60. Not counting newborns. I swear I'm small scale."
lol.

But seriously, It's tons easier to explain my mice compared to my other pets.
"this is rydag, my wolf." Or "You want to pet Auria? She's a fruit bat. Oh don't worry, they don't bite."


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## Cordane

Hijack..
You have a fruit bat?! I want one..
I swear, everywhere but new Zealand seem to have really interesting pets.


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## Velvet_Meece

mmm yes i've had people ask what i breed mice for, and i say for show mice, and they tend to pause a minute and 'so, what do you mean show? like showing them like crufts, or lots of stalls selling them or something?'

'Yes like Crufts, but for mice'

'Ok....so, how do you judge a mouse, is it like just their colour or something, or is there different breeds?'

' Urgh -_- ..... Something like that'.

Some people just give you a strange luck and say whatever floats ya boat. Some people are fascinated and ask how popular it is and what sort of classes there are and if the winners get to compete in an annual Best in Show sort of thing like at Crufts...

To be honest i'm surprised how many people are unaware of Cat shows let alone mouse shows. Yet they tend to have heard of rabbit shows.


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## Seafolly

If show breeders exist in Canada I just don't know about them. 

That visual of walking mice on leads in an arena made me laugh though. What a strange question. I mean, you don't need to know anything about small animals, just the show concept that people breed to achieve a certain standard is all.

I think rabbit shows may be more "heard of" because of those country clubs for young folks (4H). I assume it extends beyond North America but kids do have the opportunity to show their farm stock and this can include rabbits apparently. A cat show sounds like hell for the animal, ha. I know nothing about how they go, but to have a bunch of cats in a room (kennelled, mind you) sounds rather frightening when cats are so oriented towards their home environment. I can't imagine it's easy for a judge to examine a cat's body when they're hunched up and freaked out. I can probably count on one hand the number of cats I've placed on examining tables at the vet's that are remotely interested in working with us. aka not trying to eat our faces.  And most of the time it's just to look them over!


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## Fraction

Velvet_Meece said:


> 'Ok....so, how do you judge a mouse, is it like just their colour or something, or is there different breeds?'


Stepping in to say I think this is a perfectly valid question from the average person. The most exposure that many people will have had to ~the show world~ is Crufts. They might know a BYBer but to them, a breeder is breeding either for money, food or to make pets (or all of the above). The idea that people would breed JUST to win pretty ribbons--or attempt to do so--is something a lot of people couldn't comprehend.

Add this to the fact that the keeping of small pets (eg. hamsters, mice, gerbils) is generally considered a child/teen thing, sort of like a stop gap between having some fish as a little kid and being old and responsible enough for a cat or dog, and you won't run into many people who will even think that grown adults would think it fun to breed animals for, basically, no reason at all other than enjoyment.

People often aren't even aware of cat shows (except they might have heard loosely of "crazy cat show ladies", since cat show folk are pretty notorious for being a bit nutty), so they will only think of showing as something between different dog breeds, all breeding to their different standards. There is a lot of difference between different dog breeds: anyone can see that. But between mice?

I've researched heavily, owned mice for nearly a year, and even then I often have trouble looking for faults on the mice people post on here. Hell, it's only within the last month or so that I can tell my own four girls (champagne tan, all from the same breeder, all got at the same time) apart, and that's not an exact science.

You can sperg all you want about different mouse head size, different fur textures (or no fur at all), differences between colours like red/yellow/cinnamon/whatever... but to the average person, a mouse is a mouse is a mouse. It might be a pretty blue mouse or a big show mouse, but anything more in depth than that will be completely lost on them.

So yeah, just cause y'all know a bunch about mice, don't judge people who are using the only frames of reference they have to try and understand what/why you're breeding. At least the people who ask about shows are curious, and not reacting with revulsion over the fact you even own those "filthy, plague-ridden beasts."


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## Velvet_Meece

I'm not judging anyone thank you.

Its the tone in which people say these things, some are genuinely interested, others look at you like your a total loon and use an annoying sarcastic tone of voice.

Before YOU judge ME, say that sentence aloud in an interested way and again in a sarcastic way and you may understand where i'm coming from.


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## SarahY

Yeah, people seem to think it's an original and very hilarious joke to sarcastically ask if we walk them round, or get them to jump over hurdles. It's hard to smile after the hundredth time. But how can you explain such a complex process as judging a mouse without boring them stupid?

As mentioned earlier by Shadowrunner, it's inevitably followed by "so how many mice do you have?", and then complete shock when you admit you have no idea. I don't! I tell them I have 32 cages but they're rarely all full. Then they're all "32... that's a LOT of cages", and I tell them that some breeders have over a hundred cages full of mice. More shock and horror. Then comes the "but what do you do with all those mice? Sure you can't keep them all?!"

It's a lot easier not to have the conversation at all.


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## laoshu

I tend not to talk about showing mice. If someone knows I do and asks about me showing mice this is the conversation.

Them "so you keep mice and show them?"

Me "yep"

Them "do you have lots?"

Me "yep"

Them "what do you do with them all?"

Me "show them"

At that point I think they change the subject lol.
I am not a rude person but the mentality and opinions of people who have no knowledge of keeping lots of animals is not something I like to entertain very often.

If they have a interest in mice/animals the conversation is a lot different, I think I end up talking for too long.... I am a bit of a all or nothing Girl :lol:


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## Fraction

Velvet_Meece said:


> I'm not judging anyone thank you.
> 
> Its the tone in which people say these things, some are genuinely interested, others look at you like your a total loon and use an annoying sarcastic tone of voice.
> 
> Before YOU judge ME, say that sentence aloud in an interested way and again in a sarcastic way and you may understand where i'm coming from.


Okay take what you want from that post, whatever

I was trying to explain it from the other point of view. You came off as judgemental and pretty harsh toward people who literally don't understand that there is even such a thing as the mouse fancy.

Even if they're being sarcastic it's from a point of curiousity. If they weren't curious at all they wouldn't even say anything.


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## tinyhartmouseries

My husband, finally, after about three years, asked me today "so, your goal is to create a master race of mice, right?"  "I suppose the genetics part would be interesting, to create something from something else you created".


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## SarahC

Fraction said:


> Velvet_Meece said:
> 
> 
> 
> '
> 
> There is a lot of difference between different dog breeds: anyone can see that. But between mice?
Click to expand...

Physical abnormalities are frowned on in our club,there is no chance of the wide variety of body shapes available in other animals getting a show standard.Size is the only exception other than that the mouse has to be basically normal.Therefore short faces,short tails,dwarf etc just wouldn't be selected for.


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## SarahC

tinyhartmouseries said:


> My husband, finally, after about three years, asked me today ".


Well I've certainly judged you incorrectly.I thought you were a man,no idea why.


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## tinyhartmouseries

No, I can assure you I am excessively womanly.


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## Fantasia Mousery

It's quite the same here in Denmark. When people find out I have mice, they usually give me a very worried look, as if that's the strangest thing ever, and that I might be sick. No one knows a lot about them, and many of the people who have contacted me about my mice (the ones that have never had them as pets before), seem eager to just get a cute and cuddley pet without really being interested in how to take care of them.



Jack Garcia said:


> In the US, most people don't know very much about mice.
> 
> I have been asked the following questions:
> 
> "Do mice turn into rats?" (I usually say no, they turn into octopuses.)
> 
> "What do you do with them?" (I tell people that I eat them.)
> 
> "Do they bite?" (I indicated that they will bite only if you ask nicely and pay them enough.)
> 
> "What made you like mice?" (I say the taste.)
> 
> "What do you feed them?" (I claim to feed them kangaroos...but that's actually true.)
> 
> "Will they give you a disease?" (I sometimes say just the plague, but that's nothing to worry about.)


This made me laugh so much :lol: I hope you don't mind I steal some of those answers.


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## Shadowrunner

Oh my science! xD
Do I know that one.

I had a event at school once "bring your pet to school day" in highschool.
Brought my rat and mouse at the time in.
I had a groups of ooers and aahers. 
One chick comes over and stands on her tippy toes to look at what I had.

she WIGS THE CRAP out.
Cried, screamed threw herself on the ground, rolled around, scratched her arms like she was on crack. I mean it was a all out freak fest on the ground.
Her reaction caused the others to look at me and slowly back away. like the mouse had caused her psuedo seizure.
People like that hinder the mouse fancy just as much as anyone I know xD

I usually try to wierd people out when they ask me. this is how it typically goes.

"Whats your hobby?"

"I make mice. Fancy mice. You?"

"wait...whut? You make mice? From clay?"

"No. I take boy mice, girl mice and I use their hormones to my advantage to make baby mice."

"Why would you even do that?"

"why do you play golf? No wait, why do you breathe? xD"

Something like that.

I get the cage question too. To which I reply.
"wait. Do you mean upstairs or downstairs?" "because I really have no idea" " I swear I'm small scale, It's the truth"


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## MojoMouse

For some reason people find the word mousery very amusing. If I say I have a small scale mousery, people laugh - not nastily or anything, but just because they haven't heard the term before. I thought it sounded a bit funny when I first heard it, I have to admit.

I thought about calling my mouse breeding operation a stud rather than a mousery. However, saying I have a small scale stud would probably cause even more amusement, for different reasons.  What's more, my stud would be a bit put out as he's more medium sized rather than small. :lol:


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## Fraction

MojoMouse said:



> For some reason people find the word mousery very amusing. If I say I have a small scale mousery, people laugh - not nastily or anything, but just because they haven't heard the term before. I thought it sounded a bit funny when I first heard it, I have to admit.
> 
> I thought about calling my mouse breeding operation a stud rather than a mousery. However, saying I have a small scale stud would probably cause even more amusement, for different reasons.  What's more, my stud would be a bit put out as he's more medium sized rather than small. :lol:


That some people have 'studs' makes me laugh a little, too.

I think most find 'mousery' funny because if they've heard of any -ery breeding operation, it'll be a cattery, and that's it. You don't get doggeries, after all!


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## Loganberry

I don't tell people I breed mice until I know them, and quite often I don't even tell them then as it paints me in an odd light! People think you're nuts normally, but some people completely get it and ask good questions. What normally happens though is people immediately tell me about the wild mice they have in their kitchen/garage/loft, and tell me how they've killed them or would I like those ones - I laugh and tell them mine are posh mice - to quote M&S adverts, 'these are not just mice, these are posh mice'. The fact is, we breed mice and we are the odd ones. When people ask me why I do it, I tell them I'm a closet farmer.


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## MojoMouse

Loganberry said:


> The fact is, we breed mice and we are the odd ones.


That pretty much sums it up!  Also, I like your phrase "posh mice"!


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## Loganberry

Oh yes, dead posh! :-D I need to put some pix of my mice on my phone so when I do let the cat out of the bag and tell people about this mousing lark, I can show them a snap of what I mean by posh mice.

At the NMC agricultural shows each summer visitors to the show poke around the maxis trying to get a look at the mice - in the past when i've got one of my selfs out to show them, people are generally quite shocked at the size and ask if it's a rat. That's the biggest obstacle I think (bar the 'so do you put it on a tiny lead and walk it around?!' question, accompanied by frantic giggling, regarding actual showing) - the difference between a wild mouse, or these tiny little pet mice you see in shops, and even the smaller varieties of exhibition mice which are big and typey compared to pet and wild mice.

Size does matter. Who would have thought?! I don't mind the inane questions though - I'm used to them, and I understand the giggling. I laugh too - what we do is pretty strange, as far as odd hobbies go!


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## Cait

Loganberry said:


> people are generally quite shocked at the size and ask if it's a rat. That's the biggest obstacle I think (bar the 'so do you put it on a tiny lead and walk it around?!' question


Been there, done that! I also find the following frequent question an odd choice: "Don't they just breed all the time?". Well only if you house males and females together people, jeez... That and I'd be a poor excuse for a breeder if I didn't, y'know, breed 'em!


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## PPVallhunds

ive sowley changed a few student minds about mice, we get a lot who whent they first start wont even touch one of my mice but by the end of the term will happerly hold them. Ive even had two student get so attached to my mice they have asked if they could have some. The funny thing is they allways ask the same question while holding the mice for the first time 'will it bite me?' now dont get me wrong its a reasonable question to ask but i would of thought they would ask befor holding the mouse not while holding it lol. They relax a bit when i tell them they are realy unlikley to get bitten by one of my mice

I find they are better with the mice than when we had rats (sadly lost all the ones i had but will get in new for next term) the size of the rats put them off more


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## Wight Isle Stud

I don't usually mention my Hobby to any person who Is not in some sort of Livestock environment.I find people who ask the sort of questions that have been mentioned above are usually Socially and intellectually retarded anyway. Was talking to a Rabbit fancier the other day and they get the same sort of flak, usually on the lines of why on earth would you keep that many rabbits etc. A farmer friend of mine and I had the mouse discussion many years ago,we were sat over A scotch at his Table and I was trying to extract a Labrador pup from him. The scotch was to try and extract more cash out of me. There was a Blacklab laid across his feet, a Springer full length on the couch.He asked an intelligent question, which was aimed at the image the wild house mouse has. We arrived at the answer that the difference between what we do and wild mice is the difference between having a smelly disease ridden mangy fox in your house and a shiny coated labrador. When he visited my stud he was mind blown at the animals. All my Culls go to the local Falconry center. Obviously he gets to see the fabulous varieties available when defrosting to feed. He occasionally helps his colleagues out when they need a few mice for their birds. He gets feed back from them such as "wow where did these come from"- again Livestock people and openminded questions, My Falconry man explains they are show mice and the word is spread in the right communities.


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## MoonfallTheFox

I'm not a breeder (some day maybe) but I've generally gotten a lot of good feedback on my mice. People tend to think they are very cute, especially when they get to hold the little guys, and my girls are very good at being cute for visitors. They will sit on people's hands and twitch their whiskers and wash their little faces, making everyone in the room squeal. They're adorable.


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## Gill

Shadowrunner's post about the girl who threw a wobbly struck a chord with me. I have friends who live near Glasgow who bring their caravan down to the West Country twice a year. I asked them to transport some mice up to another member of this forum, and Pat quite literally freaked out. Fortunately Brian over-ruled her, but her reaction was a total surprise. Living in a largely rural area, most people round here think keeping and breeding any type of animal quite normal.


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## icedmice

I used to show betta fish. There was only once person certified in Australia under the International Betta Congress to judge fish. There was not a whole lot of interest in them either but a great deal more money exchanged hands, average $110 a pair. They also only live around 2 years.
Perhapse to the general public it seems a joke to go to extrodinary efforts to breed a $5 pet. They don't even increase in value if they are champions or have champion heritage. It is a bit of an odd fancy.
I did once have someone asking for a fancy pair, thinking they were worth more.

Even fancy pigeons sell for a good $200-$300 each, more if they're champions.


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## Shadowrunner

That's odd. I got a pair of doves here, both of which had won, and were from champion lines for 5$ each.

And I don't agree with that metaphor exactly, I have met mangy labs and I have personally interacted with a breeder of foxes, all of which had shiny and healthy coats. It's a close one but not quite. I'm surprised moonfall didn't say anything about that, she's really in love with foxes as pets.

Oh yeah, No doubt. That chick was one of the meanest, manliest girls I have ever met but bring a mouse near her and she kirks out.
Totally unexpected, but funny in retrospect.

I find people who are into genetics, and medical research tend to be more reasonable about breeding in general too.


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## sys15

Shadowrunner said:


> bring a mouse near her and she *kirks* out.


is this a typo, your own usage, or a common expression where you live? i'm curious.


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## Shadowrunner

Oh my, I do believe that is Baltimore city dialect showing. xD
oops. It's a pretty common expression, although I have no idea where it comes from.

It essentially means someone is freaking out, throwing a tantrum, something like that.
Like if I were to mention the weather and someone reacts by stripping, pulling a bag of grapes out of thin air and 
chucks them at people while screaming about aliens..

That would be kirking out. baffling at the very least and bizarre.

(I am so embarrassed. lol. Is that what "threw a wobbly" means too?)

My family has a cat that has "mysteriously" turned up pregnant.
So I joined a forum today for cat breeders. I feel so goofy. I'm using mouse terms and trying not to make a total fool of myself.
I mentioned that I do know some things about animal husbandry, just not cats. Oh boy, that was a neat conversation. 
I'm amused that they show cats, and they are amused that I want to show mice.


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## Velvet_Meece

Don't feel stupid, its funny and 'Wigs the crap out' made me chuckle and snort a bit when i first read it 

I tend to say Threw a Wobbly, its like saying someone Spazzed out.


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## sys15

Shadowrunner said:


> Oh my, I do believe that is Baltimore city dialect showing. xD
> oops. It's a pretty common expression, although I have no idea where it comes from.
> 
> It essentially means someone is freaking out, throwing a tantrum, something like that.
> Like if I were to mention the weather and someone reacts by stripping, pulling a bag of grapes out of thin air and
> chucks them at people while screaming about aliens..
> 
> That would be kirking out. baffling at the very least and bizarre.


thanks, i'd never heard that before. i wonder what the derivation is?


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## MojoMouse

Velvet_Meece said:


> Don't feel stupid, its funny and 'Wigs the crap out' made me chuckle and snort a bit when i first read it
> 
> I tend to say Threw a Wobbly, its like saying someone Spazzed out.


Ha! Throw a wobbly and spazzed out are phrases out of my childhood (a long time ago!). :lol: I like "wigs the crap out!


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## Shadowrunner

Bwaha, I've been told my speech mannerisms are...bizarrely specific too.
Friend: why are you afraid of walking here at night?
Me: Because you never know when a drunk clown will pop out of a bush and knife me in liver.

Exact words.

I'm glad that was amusing at least xD
I had no idea.

I've heard spazzed out. Although people around here say spazz attack too xD.

(So offtopic. I'd try to put something in to be on-topic too but I've got nothing.)


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