# Extreme Black? What do they look like when young



## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

And I mean really young. I seem to have some self blacks emerging from my current litter, but man, they are really dark. And they got dark fast. This litter is only 4 days old and some have been very dark since day 2. The only evidence I have of them being extreme black is the fact that thier little ears (which have started to pull away from head) are black and their tails are black too. Even their little teeny booty holes are black! Can somebody give me some insight?? I'll provide pics if requested. Thanks guys!


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Extreme non-agouti does not necessarily mean darker  Extreme non-agoutis (ae/ae) have no yellow hairs at all, but the actual black pigment is not naturally darker than standard a/a black. We don't have extreme non-agouti here in the UK but I've attached photos of show standard UK a/a black mice so you can see just how dark black they are. If your blacks have any yellow hairs on them at all (ie tan hairs inside the ears at 7 to 14 days old, or tan vents at any age) then they are a/a blacks. You can't tell at pinkie stage.


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

That's really interesting. In the US, there are two types of black. Self black, that tend to have tan hair around the genitals and ears, and the skin pigment is generally lighter, and then the extreme black which look exactly like the ones you've pictured for the UK. I guess that I am mostly appalled at how dark these babies are at such a young age! I've had self black adults, but never pinkies. I think i should attach some photos so you can see how dark these little guys are. haha


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I think you misunderstand me  The extreme non-agouti gene (the proper name for extreme black) does not denote the blackness of the mouse, the depth of black is purely down to selective breeding for blacker and blacker mice. Extreme non-agouti looks the same as standard black, but the faulty yellow hairs are not yellow. Therefore the blackness of your babies is not down to either a/a or ae/ae.

I believe that most, if not all, of America's show standard, proper dark blacks originated from the UK (or from Europe, which also originated from the UK) - which means they are standard a/a black. Extreme non-agouti has been identified in labs but I have seen no actual evidence of it in the fancy anywhere.

This is a photo of an actual extreme non-agouti mouse with a carrier, you can see it's no darker than a normal black mouse:
http://www.informatics.jax.org/image/pheno/MGI:3587228

Either way, you'll know when the hairs come though


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## candycorn (Oct 31, 2011)

Yeah, in the US people mistakenly call very good dark black mice "Extreme black" because compared to the pet store black..they look amazing. But I have seen actual extreme black who were not as nice and dark as normal black. It's just about the color of vent hairs not the intensity of the black. That is just plain good breeding. 
As far as seeing them as babies...if they are dark by day 1 or 2 with dark tails,toes even as pinkies...that is going to be a nice dark mouse.
Now these babies are black tan...so they have light feet/bellies. But they are only 2 days old and look how dark the black is. (the slightly lighter ones are agouti) They will have amazing dark black fur *on top anyway*. And yes...they are from imported lines.


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## Marlimoo55 (Sep 6, 2013)

Well it's interesting you mentioned about the black on the vents and toes. I noticed early on that the darker ones from this litter have black toe pads already and the tails are very dark! 
Mom and Dad are from pet shop stock, so If I get really good babies, i'm going to be surprized but obviously overjoyed!

Here are some pics, but obvi they don't compare with the real thing. I guess I am so surprized that I have such dark babies! lol (and that they came from a pew)

Here you can see the darkness in the tail and legs, the ears are hard to see, but they are just as dark as the rest of the body









I took this pic so you can see the dark vents and the dark paw pads! haha









All of these pics were taken at 3 days old.


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## candycorn (Oct 31, 2011)

Toes are still very pink. I would say not a great black...but time will tell!


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