# Where's Waldo?



## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

This is my mouse, Waldo. He is almost 5 weeks old. I know he doesn't meet standards or anything, but all my family/friends liked him over the regular banded mice, so I think I'm going to try to re-create more of him. He was from my second litter, the first of which I culled to size=bigger mice, so I don't have a reference for size. For being a pet type mouse, does he look decently sized?










I want to understand more about the show types, and one of the best ways for me is if you could point out the differences in form between this pet type and the ideal show types. Because I'm more familiar with my own pets, its easier for me to understand then on some random mouse.










Although his middle band is clearly separated from the others on the top, it pinches on the bottom and connects up under the first white band.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

What a lovely double banded. 

Here's a photo that helps a lot of people understand the differences between pet and show mice:


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

... So I realized that they were considered to be the same size of small rats, but wow, that is much more extreme then I thought. I meant the individual pieces of the body, like I've seen ppl reference tail set and size, but I have no idea what it actually means.

The pet mouse in the picture, is it an adult? I know I've read about how the marked types are generally less typey then the selfs (within the show, not necessarily the pic), so would you say that represents the average size difference, or was it just a humongous show mouse?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

If you look at the photo, the tail of the show mouse is longer, thicker, and tapers to the body. The pet mouse has a skinny short tail, that looks like it was 'stuck on' as an after thought.

This mouse is a particularly large example, because it is PEW. PEW can be bred for type better than any other variety, because the coat colour is impossible to mess up on an albino mouse. 

The UMC has a best in show award for overall, colour, marked, and coat separately.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Okay, that is a good explanation.

With double bands, do you know how often they show up when breeding? As mentioned, I really want to re-create this for the novelty, but is it really just a random bit like odd eyes, or is it something I will be able to breed with some degree of repetition.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Double banded, is from the same genes as a single band. A group of modifiers determines, whether it is a double or single. So if you breed him to say a self doe, and then breed back to dad you should be able to get double banded again (depending on if it's recessive or dominant).

It works the same way that a broken, even, and a dutch mouse are both created with the same recessive spotting gene, it's just that each one is bred to look a certain way.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Of course, that photo makes the difference in size most dramatic, showing a pet type next to a really humongous PEW show mousie. PEW's tend towards large size, and are also often more typey than other colors, so are a favorite of fancy breeders. Not that it's impossible to breed other colors to be as large or typey.

The 'pet type', if it were expanded to the same length as the PEW, would, it seems obvious to me, at least, to be in much the same proportions as to length of tail, body type, etc. Breeding for larger size is one of the easier things, getting the proportions right and the colors and/or markings right are the harder part.

I was surprised to actually see Guppie51's meeces in a context other than sitting in his hand, as they looked like really nice big typey mousies, when in fact they were considerably smaller than I had thought. They were gorgeous in their racy bodies and all the other proportions. Like myself, he had limited access to show types and had mixed the ones he got, which were already, I think, a generation away from English show mousies.

Frizzle, your double banded has a lot going for it; it has a fairly long tail, and a wide ear set. I think breeding for specific markings is the most challenging of any project for which you could look. I'd like to see what this boy does when set on a nice level surface so one could see the length of the body, the reach of the neck and the shape of the head, neck, the reach of the limbs. Set on a pedestal, he's sort of scrunched up looking. He's a good looking little boy, though.


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## Emfa Mouse (Dec 14, 2011)

What a great mouse!! Love the name by the way! :lol:


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I will definitely try that order of breeding. I have a self sister from that litter, as well as a half sister who was born a few days after.

This is what I have for demonstrating length. He is angled weirdly, so maybe later I'll try to re-take this. I can't tell, does he seem stocky to anyone? To me he's rather plump, but then I've mainly kept does at this age, and all his sisters are definitely slimmer.


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't know much but he's very handsome.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Thank you, Moonfall. : ) Even if I am unable to get the bands perfect in sequential generations, I really want to mimic this pattern.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

What a good looking boy! :shock:

the first thing I thought of him was that he had a nice tail for a pet quality mouse

he does look to be a good size for 5 weeks old as well!, don't listen to me though xD, I'm trying to learn as well

and at 5 weeks (atleast all mine did) is about the age that males start to bulk up, get their little mousey manly six-packs (or their kegs :lol: )


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Actually, out of his litter, there was one male with even more of a slightly thicker tail. However, his pattern was crud, zips, and spots, so he is no longer with me. I think I'm going to repeat the meeting (Double Stuff X Ray Ray) in hopes that I will get another crispier mouse, as well as seeing if I get any more double banded mice. I'll probably keep more of the selfs this time. DS's last litter had 15, so hopefully there will be a lot to choose from again.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

7 weeks, and looking like a gentleman!


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## Serena (Dec 29, 2011)

he really is a handsome fellow 
and cool idea for a pic ^^


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Thank you! The aesthetics need to be tweaked, but I thought it'd be neat to show how his band looks belly-wise. As you can see, the stripe terminates, but there is an offshoot that goes under the armpit and merges with the top band.


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## candycorn (Oct 31, 2011)

He looks like a ribbon seal! Adorable!


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

That mirror pic is great... That's what I'll do next time I need a belly shot! As for type, I'm horrible at it, but in general when you have all they babies out, and they're fairly well developed, at least 2-3 weeks of age, take them out in a group and stare at them. Choose 1 feature at a time, like ears, or tail, and stare until you start seeing some difference between them. Then choose the more ideal one. Don't be afraid to take a couple weeks to decide who will be a keeper, especially when you're first starting out. That's the stage I'm at right now.


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## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

Autumn - snap! I'm also at that stage. I have five young bucks, but can only keep two. I've ruled out one as he has short hair, but am having difficulty deciding between the other four. Looking at a specific feature seems like an excellent idea to me. I'll start with their tails as I'm told the best ones have the thickest tails.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yep, you want thick tails. But it's not just the thickness of the tail. Look at the mouse's butt, from hips to tail. Look for the one that has the longest triangle, where the tail and body meet up. You want a tail that tapers to the body, not just a round butt with a tail that sticks straight out, does that make sense?


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## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes, it does, thanks. Mind you, that will be quite hard to spot as I am breeding long-hairs, and the four young buck all have fairly long hair which can hide a multitude of sins (I had enough problems when I needed to separate them from the does).


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

LOL!!! Longhaired! I am so glad I work with satins and standard coat....


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