# Abyssinian Breeders, Please Help Me Out with Mine!!



## Stina

Ok, so I finally have my abys from the UK and now that I have bubs...I've realized I need some guidance! I'm not entirely sure what to look for in my bubs to improve what I have! At the same time, I'm not entirely sure what I want to have my ultimate goal, so I would greatly appreciate photos of adults with different patterns of rosettes (especially a couple with the rosettes going up the body farther and asymmetrical rosettes).

Here's pics of some of the bubs from my older litter to show you what I currently have  If you click on the images, or the links below them, you will be taken to Flickr where you can see the full size images and other images 


F1 UK Bubs! by CSBeck, on Flickr

F1 UK Bubs! by CSBeck, on Flickr

F1 UK Bubs! by CSBeck, on Flickr

F1 UK Bubs! by CSBeck, on Flickr

F1 UK Bubs! by CSBeck, on Flickr

F1 UK Bubs! by CSBeck, on Flickr


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## candycorn

I personally love the one with the little swirl. It looks the like eye of a hurricane. I would have to name that one Storm. LOL


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## moustress

I'm curious as to where abys come from to start out with, plus how one develops them to have other rosettes than those on the rump.

I hope someone can answer these pressing questions! :?:

My thoughts are that they come out of a curly line, maybe? With hints of rosettes, then inbred to increase the appearance of the rosettes.


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## Stina

I believe it was a random mutation someone noticed. I highly doubt it had anythign to do with a curly line.


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## Jacqueline

I think it's a bit too early to select already. Some abys loose their rosettes very quickly, while others look quite nice when they are getting older. I think that's the most important to select on. 
Further on they mentioned in our standard abys should have a demarkation line (I don't know how to call it) on the belly. 
Of course you select the bubs with the most rosettes. Sometimes in your litters there will pop up abys with 4 rosettes and by using these for your breeding program, you will be able to breed mice with more rosettes. It will be a long way, but you will be awarded for patience!


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## MojoMouse

The swirl patterns on the youngsters is so pretty! I imagine they're all going to be longhair? Have you considered breeding some with standard length coats, still satin, especially in the darker colours such as the blue and chocolate that you have? While the long coat abbys look plush and gorgeous, a standard coat would highlight the exquisite swirl patterns. You can see the effect in your pics because the coats haven't reached full length. It looks like crushed velvet!


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## Stina

I'm not selecting now....I'm just wondering what different selections would suggest for the future. I may not necessarily want to follow the UK standard...but I don't even know what the possibilities are...I've seen very few photos of adult abys.

Mojo...these ARE standard length coats...shouldn't be anything longhaired. Also, there is no chocolate here, and it is harder to see the directionality of the coat on the darker colored animals. Lighter color is definitely best for this coat type.


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## Jack Garcia

Lighter coats are better for all non-standard coat types, because on dark coats shadows cause the depth not to show as well.

There's no point in breeding a coat to be fluffy, or directional, or lengthy, if you can't see it as well.


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## Jacqueline

I understand you're not selecting already, I guess you won't sell any of them yet anyway. I think it's best to breed them all and see what litters they give. But I just wanted to say it's hard to select abys for breeding as long as they are still very young. I had bubs with great swirl which are visible anymore at an age of 4 months. They are on their best at 3 months and most are loosing their rosettes after that age. That should be the age to select which ones to use for breeding.

I will try to get some pictures of my adult abys and also pictures when they were young, so you can see how they develop. I hope I can post some today, but I can't make any promise yet.


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## MojoMouse

Jack Garcia said:


> Lighter coats are better for all non-standard coat types, because on dark coats shadows cause the depth not to show as well.
> 
> There's no point in breeding a coat to be fluffy, or directional, or lengthy, if you can't see it as well.


In general that's right. I was just musing about the effect of the darker coats, _in satin_, with the swirl pattern. The satin gives the highlights that would normally be lost in the darker colour. The highlights are actually more pronounced with the darker colour. The effect is exactly the one shown on the shortish coats on these babies. I think they look stunning, just as they are!  It's a different look to that of aby mice with full length coats. They're lovely as well, though, but you lose a lot of the exquisite detail of the swirl patterns.

It's just a personal opinion.


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## Stina

Jacqueline
interesting...I suppose that makes sense though, since they go through a major moult at 3-4 mths....that kinda stinks...lol I will definitley be rehoming quite a few of these bubs...I have 18 total between the 2 litters and definitely don't have the space for that many (and definitely not to breed that many). I'll be able to hold onto most of them for awhile...but dang...lol Is it like a lot of other traits where a good one can "go bad" but if they start "bad" they'll almost never improve?

I would definitely appreciate any photos you can share whenever is convenient for you!!!

Mojo
I totally disagree about the darker coats...I have a black adult buck, a blue fox doe, and a blue tan doe, and the blues are much easier to see the swirls on (they are all satin standard length coats...nothing longhaired....the edges of the rosettes stand on end). Satin is barely noticeable on dark coats, and it doesn't do much to improve the appearance of textured coats. I've also had both dark and light colors on other coated varieties as well. My personal preference is for light, but not white, colors on textured coat varieties.


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## MojoMouse

Stina said:


> Mojo
> I totally disagree about the darker coats...I have a black adult buck, a blue fox doe, and a blue tan doe, and the blues are much easier to see the swirls on (they are all satin standard length coats...nothing longhaired....the edges of the rosettes stand on end). Satin is barely noticeable on dark coats, and it doesn't do much to improve the appearance of textured coats. I've also had both dark and light colors on other coated varieties as well. My personal preference is for light, but not white, colors on textured coat varieties.


As I said, it's totally a personal opinion! I must like different things to most other people, but I'm ok with that!  I just think that in particular, the baby in pic 3, and the one in pic 4 ("eye of the storm") look absolutely exquisite! Some of that fine detail would be lost with a long coat. It looks incredibly pretty in the blue satin short length. Each to their own!


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## Stina

I don't understand why you are talking about long coats at all...as I've never even suggested I was going to do it...and these are not.

As for color...the blues are lighter than the blacks....and the blue is what you like  The one with the "eye of the storm" is a blue fox (presumably c^ch/c^ch) and more or less the same shade (maybe slightly lighter) of blue as her 2 blue tan siblings....there are only 5 different mice pictured in this thread. Once the second litter gets a little bigger, I will take some similar quality pics of some lighter and white bubs to share.


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## MojoMouse

Stina said:


> I don't understand why you are talking about long coats at all...as I've never even suggested I was going to do it...and these are not.


Sincere apologies.  I thought the ones you imported were all long coats. I was wrong.


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## SarahC

I've got an article somewhere from years ago when the UK first got them from Europe and there was a push to get them standardised.I'll be busy with the show tomorrow but I'll dig it out.The one thing I can remember is that shoulder rosettes were very desirable.


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## Velvet_Meece

I'm almost out of abys 

I've got a few very young mice that are my last ditch attempt to revive my colony, they are carriers, but i've had to outcross that much that any abys i do have, have nearly lost their rosettes completely 
Absolutely gutted and no one ever seems to have any for sale, when i had the chance to get some last year, i cocked it up and missed out...still beat myself up over that.


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## SarahY

I bred Abyssinians for a couple of years and got to nine rosettes (four on each side and the long zipper rosette on the belly). You need to run them all on until they are three months old. A lot of Abyssinians have lovely swirls as babies but they grow they just go fluffy like a toilet brush. It's important that the backwards hair lays flat on the body, only rising up at the ridge and the definition is there at the centre. And just so you're prepared, at three weeks old they will look AWFUL; fluffy and rubbish. But at six weeks old they'll look like Abyssinians again 

To get rosettes further up the body, you just need to breed the ones with most coverage. Think of it not as seperate rosettes but a rosetted area. You need to spread the area over the mouse and more rosettes will pop up. You do need to watch the rosette definition though, you could end up mice that just have backwards facing hair.

Here are some pictures of mine, of varying quality:









































































Oh, and just because it's been mentioned on here, I must say that long haired Abyssinian is extremely attractive. The long guard hairs come out of the ridges like fans, it really adds to the effect


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## Velvet_Meece

Sarah, are there any traits to look for that would indicate a mouse is good for breeding more rosettes? I mean how would you start to breed for more? or is it just pure luck you'd get one pop up with more than the normal 2 rosettes and then you can begin to breed from there?


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## SarahY

Just keep breeding biggest rosetted area x biggest rosetted area. As the area spreads up the the mouse the rosettes will pop up on their own


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## laoshu

I do not know if there is more than one strain of abbys but non of my adults ever lost there rosettes. At the age when the rosettes come through you can pick the ones that will be the best. Sarah is right about them looking really poor again at about 3 ish weeks when their baby into adult coat starts to change. Then the coats bloom again and stay like that their whole life (as long as they are fit and healthy) nothing like the Astrex/Texel mice that loose the curls as they get older)

Sarah, Can you believe I still have some of them pink eyed white abbys you gave me over a year or so ago (I think?). They are getting on now bless them... They are still charging around being great nanny's though


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## Velvet_Meece

This was most i had at one time, and they have poop rosettes, never bred well, not often they got pregnant despite always having a male at hand and when they did, small litters 3-4 and nearly all bucks. Just terrible.
I only have 3 proper aby doe's left and all are over a year old and no longer breed. So i have just carriers now i'm hoping something happens soon.
I don't want to lose the type, they're my favourite


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## Stina

Thanks so much guys! I definitely appreciate the photos/advice  Keep it coming!


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## chatsworth

Here are some of the abys I have had in the past, I have just sold the last one but I already miss them, they are so beautiful 


























































































































































This one I sold just a couple of weeks ago and was from my last aby 


















I also had this funny one pop up in a litter, it was both curly and aby 










When it got older 


















And I just love this picture 









Ups, sorry, a lot of pictures


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## moustress

Chatsworth: These are some very interesting pix; I've never seen a pic of a pied aby, and that first one, the black and white...it's neat the way the markings work with the coat.

It's too bad, but perfectly understandable that there would be problems with a newer variety; it's an example of a variety I appreciate for it's look, but wouldn't want to breed myself. It took me years to establish a healthy satin line, and those have been around for a handful of decades.

Thanks for the photos!


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## Frizzle

Angora Abby? What was up with it's tail, btw, nest nibblers?


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## Stina

Oh my goodness...the long haired ones are adorable!!!!


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## Cait

chatsworth said:


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Flying mouse - looks like it has little wings!


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## Jack Garcia

A lot of the pictures show them in satin. Is it common to breed them in satin in the UK or Europe?


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## chatsworth

I actually don´t know, a lot of people stopped with the abys because it didn´t go to well with the breeding, most people kept mating aby+aby and the babies got smaller and smaller, I did a lot of aby+normal mating to get carriers and then save the size and I also bought new abys in other countries when I found some, but there has been satin involved since I got my first aby, so for me it is very common


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## chatsworth

MouseBreeder said:


> chatsworth said:
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> Flying mouse - looks like it has little wings!
Click to expand...

Yes, someone called it a little angel


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