# When do does begin lactating? And fostering question.



## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

I'm just curious... I'm trying to keep my does in pairs, with each of them bred 1 - 2 weeks apart so that I can more easily tell the litters apart.

But I got to wondering. When the first doe has her babies, will the second be able to nurse them as well, or will that not begin happening until her own litter is born?

I've got a group of babies at the moment that may need to be fostered... but there are 6 of them. I have two other does with babies at the moment, but they both have 6-7 babies each as well, and the other doe in each cage has not yet given birth. If I fostered them between the two, would both does be able to feed, or would I just be overloading a single mouse?

And, my other issue is that all of the babies are different ages. How much of an issue might this cause? The ones that may need fostering are 1 week old. One of the other litters are almost 2 weeks old, and the last litter was only born during the night - so they are newborn.

Advice, please!

And my reason for considering fostering is that two babies were killed during the night. I understand that they may have had some sort of issue, so I am just keeping an eye on them to see if the momma is going to be picking them all off, or if it was those two only. I just find it odd that they were untouched until now. And they have not been getting handled or bothered, so I don't believe it would be stress related (unless it was something amongst themselves).


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

> When the first doe has her babies, will the second be able to nurse them as well, or will that not begin happening until her own litter is born?


I think that would depend on whether the second female had ever had a previous litter. I've had a nanny start lactating and nurse pups along side the dame but the nanny was also grandma. I don't know if a pregnant doe could start lactating early during pregnancy when being a first time mom. If you try it please let me know how it works out.



> And, my other issue is that all of the babies are different ages. How much of an issue might this cause?


This is very beneficial to the older litter and not so great for the second but I've had the situation work out when under 10 pups total in both litters . The biggest pups can and will fight their way to the milk first and sometimes push the smallest ones down and sit on them. You'll just have to watch closely and use your best judgement.


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## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

Thank you.


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## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

Update: I actually ended up fostering the 2 week olds, instead of the one week olds! I was shocked to go in and find them all bitten up, with one dead. So I pulled them and put them in with two experienced does that had only 2 babies this time around. So far, so good.

I'm having a streak of bad luck, this go around. This is the third litter out of this 'wave' that has had issues. I haven't been poking around in the cage, they're in a quiet room, no changes (except for this current litter, and its my fault this time - I introduced a new doe to the cage after the birth, because I didn't catch it before the birth - but things were fine for days.)

Its frustrating, but I'm still learning, and I'm still getting into the swing of things (because I've been struggling to get all of the breedings properly scheduled). I'm sure the biggest factor is not getting the does paired up earlier enough in their pregnancies, and causing too much stress. Do you think that's what it is?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

It's hard verging on impossible to judge how a doe will react behaviorally to either a second litter in the tank from another doe or when you try foster babies on them. Lactation is a bit more predictable; does that are bred close together time wise and in the same tank will often share nursing duties. As far as fostering goes, it works better when the babies are close to the same age. I take the ripest bedding in the tank they going in to and place them in that for awhile so they don't smell as foreign. Some does will accept babies even after they are furred, others will just kill the new babies right away, others will wait and kill them when you're not looking.

I'm not sure about a doe who hasn't yet delivered starting to lactate when a cage mate throws her litter. Females in the same tank often have synchronized estrus, so I'd bet that it happens from time to time. I know that does who have weaned their litter will nurse younger babies from other litters if the babies are born before the milk has dried up.


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## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

Apparently my phone did not post my newest update, so I'll try again.

They had to be removed from the foster mom. She did the "kill when you aren't looking" thing. I think one of the babies has a broken leg. Another seems a bit lethargic from bites to the head.

I will cull those two without a doubt. The rest are really in fine condition, and I hate to think of just culling them at this point, but I don't have another mom to foster them to. They were born on February 21, so they are 11 days old. Is it possible to hand raise them at this point, or is it better to just let them go humanely?


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

If you have the time and the diligence to hand raise them it is possible. Moustress and others have had success before and I'm sure she would have recommendations. It's very emotionally draining however, I think you need to feed a certain type of milk mixture and you need to feed them every few hours. I did this with four rabbit kits that were only 1 week old but my boyfriend and I took turns.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes, 11 days old is very doable. they need to be fed about three or four times a day until their eyes are open, after that they will start taking food on their own, but hand feeding is still good too. Soy based formula and cream of rice works really well; how you get it into them is the question. I just smeared the warmed mixture on my hand and put them in it. It end up all over them, and they are old enough to start cleaning themselves, thus feeding themselves by that route as well. After a while I heard little slurping sounds. They need to be warmed by your hands, and having a heating pad under part of the tank they are in is good too, as long as it's not set to high. and there's stroking their lower bellies and genitals (with cotton swab works pretty well.

I acrificed another old polar fleece hat to the ones I fed for a few days. their eyes opened today, and they still have both mom and dad with them, so I'm pretty sure they are going to be OK. Its a lot of work, but it's a labor of love.


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## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

Thanks you guys. I picked up some milk replacer while at the store, and had my first go with all of them. Some didn't want anything to do with it, others were very eager. The ones that wouldn't take it I attempted to get some of the solution on them. I'll probably try again in an hour or so, since I'm sure they'll be a little more hungry by then.

I've also put two of my newest weanlings in with them for warmth. They were all toasty, so operation success. 

Lets just cross our fingers that they can pull through, now!


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

Awesome, good job!


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