# Chubby wubbies!



## Rosewood (Oct 7, 2010)

My first litter of Variegated. There were originally six but three of them seemed somewhat under developed and only one made it to two weeks, but sadly died a few days ago. Here are some pictures of the six at pinkie age, then about a week old (I think) to the three healthy ones now 

A pile of pinkies, note the salmon coloured ones near the keys and the colour difference to the pinkie in the middle. 








2 varies, 1 black and BEW at a week








All three healthy babies at two weeks.








The Varie doe.








The Varie buck.








The Black buck.








The Varie buck with one of the pet types from another litter. The pup on the right was a surprise along with his brothers, as his mother is a champagne reverse rumpwhite (I think) and his dad is a black and white. From these parents combined, they have managed to pop out various colours including broken argente, broken champagne, champagne banded, broken agouti and this boys colour. He looks like a dutch with little shoulder markings.









Hopefully I'll be taking the two varie pups to Manchester and entering them in the under 8 weeks class (they will be five weeks at that point, hopefully old enough) and then taking them to Sowood and putting them in the adult class. This is my first show litter and first litter of Varies, my second of show has just popped up (a litter of ten O.O), so I'll hopefully get some good ones from there


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

the three pale ones are anemic,a side effect of breeding variegated.They do perish.


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

The one in that last picture is just beautiful! Very nice markings.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

As Sarah pointed out, pure white mice in variegated litters do not live, so breeders cull them early to prevent any suffering. You don't seem to have been told this by whoever you got your stock from, so you might want to read up on megacolon too, as this is a problem for variegateds.


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## Rosewood (Oct 7, 2010)

Now that I know what it looks like, I will make sure that next time I cull straight away. And I am reading up on megacolon now.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

The most obvious sign I have seen of megacolon in variegated is the distended belly. They look like they are full of air like a balloon, and it's clearly different from the normal pregnancy bulge. A good variegated is attractive though so I hope you keep on with them  They can and have won BIS so it's definitely do-able!


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## maisymouse (Feb 10, 2011)

Cull means to kill them? how is that fair?


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

maisymouse, would you rather them slowly and painfully die on their own? By culling them young you're doing them a favor - they're not going to live.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Culling at some point or the other is often the best thing for everybody, even the mousie. In the case of sickly pups or adults, in the case of having too many males to house adequately, or more males than you can give the individual attention to...it's something that we on this Forum accept. It's the right of every mouse keeper to decide what to do with their mousies.

I usually cull sick individuals who don't respond to reasonable treatment. I also cull young adult males after picking the ones I use for breeders and the ones who are friendly and like to play or are just too pretty to die. Yes, I judge them, and decide who lives and who dies.

A good number of breeders in this forum started keeping mousies to feed their reptiles. They still do that, and that's OK with the rest of us. Meeces evolved to be prey, which is why they breed so prodigiously. It's a fact of nature that also makes sense for breeders to adapt to their needs, whatever those needs may be.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

maisymouse said:


> Cull means to kill them? how is that fair?


in this particular scenario the offspring mentioned are none viable.With the best care and intentions they won't survive. It's not a matter of fairness.If this offends a persons morals/ethics then the advice would be not to keep/breed a variety such as variegated because you will be presented with this dilemma.For those who do keep them it makes reducing litters straight forward.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Do you get these problems even if breeding to a self Sarah? I am just curious as the very few people i have known to breed varigated, bred vari to self as this prevents lethal white babies W/W.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

yes crossing to selfs is supposed to prevent it,I don't know if it does so 100 %,they aren't a variety I keep.Dave B who provided the parents of Jannas stock would be the best person to talk to,and he does like to talk Occasional survivors,bew's, are possible but most die before 14 days.


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## Rosewood (Oct 7, 2010)

I suppose it might prevent it from time to time, and the odd few might pop up in a couple of litters. I will chat to Dave about it. I bred my spare buck (a little too light to breed to any other varies at present) to a PEW Astrex to see what the outcome would be and thus far I can see no anemic bubs. Just 9 healthy ones, 4 black (2 does, 2 bucks) and 5 Variegated (2 bucks, 3 does - seems to be a good month for does), but I'll wait and see whether anything happens.

Do you think the Astrex genes may help against the megacolon too, Sarah?


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Breeding vari to self will always prevent lethal white babies, because healthy vari's are W/w and obviously selfs are w/w... So offspring will only be a mix of W/w and w/w

Though obviously this not something that will prevent the varieties other problems, like megacolon.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosewood said:


> Do you think the Astrex genes may help against the megacolon too, Sarah?


I don't know,I have no experience of megacolon but personally I wouldn't breed astrex into anything other than a completely seperate project.Chat to Dave at Manchester,not only does he like to talk,he has a wealth of experience of variegated to share.


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## minibears (Jul 30, 2010)

anaemic bubs are not always only due to variegation, they can pop up for other reasons obviously. i've had them in variegated related (but not variegated themselves) matings too, doesn't explain why, but says that they do


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