# Bare or enrichment?



## matt_m

When keeping mice strictly as 'livestock' breeding/exhibition animals, I'm keen to know what your thoughts are in regard to cage enrichment - do you provide it, and if so in what form?

Obviously the keeping of such animals is not the same as keeping of animals as pets - whose owners may go to extraordinary lengths to provide entertainment for the inhabitants!

My new mice at the moment I have to admit have very bare tubs. Wood shavings and a bit of hay and that's it. They have nothing else, although I may consider chucking some cardboard toilet roll innards in for them :lol:

My question is; am I being cruel? My gut feeling is that I am not and most show breeders probably keep their mice similar to how I do...but if you think I should provide more for them to do...any suggestions? I don't fancy fitting wheels in each tub! :mrgreen:


----------



## SarahY

Mice are happy with a big handful of hay and company of their own kind, they don't need toys. Cleanliness is vitally important; toys are nice, but with 40 cages of mice and a full time job I can't keep them all clean. I don't believe in wheels at all, I worry that they can cause OCD type problems and I have never provided a wheel, even for pets.

I will save cardboard, small boxes and toilet roll tubes, and the mice sometimes have those, but they go straight into the recycling along with the substrate at the end of the week so there is no cleaning involved 

Edit: my rule of thumb is that if the mice are in good condition, lively and alert, and breeding; they're happy.


----------



## SarahC

I don't think there is any harm in providing wheels but you are right,most who breed for non pet purposes don't.I put whole sheets of newspaper in which they chew but that's about it.It becomes a bit impractical if you keep large numbers not to mention expensive.


----------



## Serena

I'm no show breeder, but I would definitly give them nesting material (tissue, newspaper,...). Studies have shown, that that's very important for mice. the mice would go to a cage section with otherwise avoided wire floor if there was nesting material on it. The other option was a nest box on normal floor with normal bedding without nesting material (van de weerd et al 1998)
they use up to 20% of their active time working with the material (van de Weerd et al 1997).
this is from animals in laboratories, but I think it can be applied here anyway.
Cardbord boxes ans tubes won't hurt, and normally you have them available anyway, so why not give it to the mice once in a while


----------



## Gill

Mine do have wheels (when not in the dishwasher - the wheels, not the mice!), but only because they came with the cages. Other than that, I give them loo and poly-roll tubes, and small cardboard boxes, which they love chewing. As SarahY says, they can be put out with the recycling once partly demolished.


----------



## Cait

matt_m said:


> When keeping mice strictly as 'livestock' breeding/exhibition animals, I'm keen to know what your thoughts are in regard to cage enrichment - do you provide it, and if so in what form?


If you think about it, mice belonging to a breeder have one of the best forms of natural enrichment in that they can behave more like mice - i.e. live in groups, breed, raise and care for babies. I don't give my mice wheels as it's impractical with a large breeding setup, but if you have a few pets I don't see a problem in doing so provided that the wheel has a solid running surface and isn't too small. Any cardboard boxes and tubes always go down well and can be thrown away on clean out day as has already been said.


----------



## windyhill

I would say at the bare min, put an empty cardboard toilet roll in their cage.
It would give them something to hide in, chew on, climb on,etc.


----------



## Laigaie

A completely bare tank is recommended against for good husbandry, according to laboratory animal care guidelines. They suggest a house/hide of some kind, though a good-sized handful of hay serves this purpose equally well.


----------



## Fraction

To give a different perspective (from a pet owner side of things), my mice have a house and wheel per cage. They also have rope to climb on, a fleece tunnel each, a hammock style thing each, and cardboard tubes/boxes/etc stuffed with tissue or ripped up paper. My boy also has a plastic toy, though he's shown little interest in it. All of my mice really enjoy climbing and moving nesting material around so I try to give them opportunities to do all of that without crowding them too much--their cages don't have much floor space.


----------



## Jack Garcia

The toys are more for people than mice, anyway. Mice need bedding (hay, paper, aspen, etc) and company of their own kind. They don't need a treadmill or dayglo igloo.


----------



## Meese

I keep my mice for food for my snakes. They have tunnels, wicker balls, a hide toilet paper rolls. Nesting materials and regular bedding. The ones I breed I keep as "pets" I feed their offspring to the snakes but it's not like I hate them and are cruel to them. Thyre animals and I love 'um.. Snakes gotta eat too!


----------



## AyJay658

I personally think enrichment is very important. I think it is necessary to fulfill their drives to exhibit certain behaviours. They need bedding and substrate to root in and nest with, they need hides in order to take cover (they are prey animals after all), I personally provide a large wheel as I don't like to think of them not being able to exert their excess energy. Sometimes I scatter their food as foraging is important to them, however not every day because you cannot regulate intake. I give mine cardboard tubes and ropes to climb on. Basically I try to give them a chance to use all the behaviours they would in the wild and strive to exhibit. Im afraid I don't believe healthy = happy because, for example, if you look at farm animals you have perfectly healthy and productive animals dying of sudden death syndrome due to the stress of their surroundings and prevention of normal behaviours. Its been shown that battery chickens would prefer a nest box with bedding to a wire floor with food. And if battery chickens are given a nest box 87% of them are still in there 24 hours later! Other behaviours such as dust bathing and roosting are also very important to chickens. I don't see any reason why this cannot be applied to mice =) I do however have pet mice and understand that costs need to be kept down, but a cardboard tube or a tissue box can make a huge difference!


----------



## love2read

I used to give all of my mice wheels, but for sanitary purposes I no longer use them. After having dealt with a URI I decided it's must wiser to skip the wheels altogether because they tend to be bacteria breeding grounds if you don't have the time to clean them every single day. :/

I'm in the process of upgrading to taller tubs so I can give the mice deeper bedding(about 2") without it being an issue with the water bottles. Between the deep bedding, hay piles, and toilet paper tubes my mice seem very happy and have a blast digging in the bedding to crate tunnels and chewing apart the tubes. I also pour their food directly onto the bedding so they have to hunt for it. They seem to enjoy throwing their bedding everywhere to search for their favorite pieces of food, lol.


----------



## AyJay658

Sounds like your mice have a blast =P I have been fascinated for a while about gerbils and other animals that like to dig into soil. I think that would be amazing to watch and they must love it! Do mice dig? I have never really seen anything about it but maybe that would be enrichment. I don't know haha!


----------



## Fraction

AyJay658 said:


> Sounds like your mice have a blast =P I have been fascinated for a while about gerbils and other animals that like to dig into soil. I think that would be amazing to watch and they must love it! Do mice dig? I have never really seen anything about it but maybe that would be enrichment. I don't know haha!


When my girls were in a tank, they used to have an absolute blast digging through aubiose to get nuts, mealworms, etc!


----------



## AyJay658

I really want to try meal worms with my mice! Do all mice like them? Can you get different sizes? What size would they eat most comfortably? And this might sound horrible but do they eat them live?


----------



## Fraction

I've only ever seen single sized mealworms, but you can get differently sized tubs. All five of my mice love them, and will take them from me reliably. Mine eat dried, but that's simply because I couldn't stomach having a box of live mealworms in the house.


----------



## AyJay658

I feel sorry for mealworms being called that. Its like they are destined to be eaten haha! I will see if I can buy a box =) Do they turn into anything more or are they always worms?


----------



## MojoMouse

AyJay658 said:


> Sounds like your mice have a blast =P I have been fascinated for a while about gerbils and other animals that like to dig into soil. I think that would be amazing to watch and they must love it! Do mice dig? I have never really seen anything about it but maybe that would be enrichment. I don't know haha!


Mice certainly do dig. In fact, if they're given deep substrate and some "building materials", they will construct a complex arrangement of subterraneun rooms and connecting tunnels. When I kept mice only as pets before I began breeding, I used to provide a lot of natural enrichment. The substrate was a layering of paper based litter, soil (no chemicals, and heat treated to sterilise), coconut fibre, hay or lucerne, and a variety of sticks. I kept the mice in a terrarium, and could often see some of their "rooms" if they were against the glass.









Mouse bedroom, with snoozing occupants. This is just one of several compartments they had constructed.









Top view, with mouse checking to see if the coast is clear in the world. They used the surface for eating, and occasionally napping on day beds they would make. They also has a dedicated toilet corner. The rest of the time they were busy underground.

As a breeder, now my mice are in tubs. I'm only small scale, so each tub has a wheel. I want fit mice, not lazy couch potato mice. The substrate (paper based litter + hay or lucerne layer when I have some) is deep enough for them to dig in. I always put small boxes, toilet roll tubes and even just some scrunched paper in the tubs for the mice to explore and demolish. They just get chucked when they get chewed and demolished.

The exception to this is the tubs for nursing mothers - no wheel or distractions for her. She's got babies to feed, clothe and educate, and has no time for frivolity.



AyJay658 said:


> I feel sorry for mealworms being called that. Its like they are destined to be eaten haha! I will see if I can buy a box =) Do they turn into anything more or are they always worms?


Mealworms turn into beetles.


----------



## AyJay658

Wow. I am enthralled by that. Its like ants! (Which I also find fascinating!) I am definitely considering buying a massive terranium and doing that now! How often did you change the soil etc? I have used coconut fibre before and thats fairly easy to separate. Where did you get the big chunks of bark from? 
Is there any way to make a terranium have levels? I like platforms for my mice =)
I think I will stick with the dead meal worms then! I am not a huge fan of beetles =D


----------



## Fraction

AyJay658 said:


> Is there any way to make a terranium have levels? I like platforms for my mice =)


Get a couple of sheets of acrylic perspex, cut them to triangles that will fit into the terranium, and stick them in with aquarium sealant. That's how I added levels to my tank.


----------



## MojoMouse

I have 2 terrariums. One is standard, the other smallish but tall, pictured below. I only kept 3 - 4 girls in it... here it is, with levels:









The substrate is a bit shallower here, but they still dug their rooms. The difference is that I gave them lots of upper world enrichment as well so they could climb. The wheel is way too small and piddly though - I got bigger ones soon after the time this pic was taken, but unfortunately the only type I could get was the wire type.

I only use the terrariums now when I'm setting up "mice as pets" displays. People like to see how much fun it is to keep mice, and what they can do with the enclosures.


----------



## AyJay658

Love that. Looks great fun! I am going to see what I can do now! Excitement! Haha.


----------



## MojoMouse

Here is another arrangement - not a "natural" digging environment, but lots of enrichment for my pets.  And bigger wheels (though still the crappy sort.)










I miss keeping mice as pets only, even though I love breeding now that I'm doing it more seriously. I had heaps of fun creating their environments. It was more for me, though - I know that the mice would probably have been just as happy with digging substrate, somewhere to climb and lots of tubes/boxes.


----------



## AyJay658

Oo where did you get the ladder type things? They could come in handy. How did you attach your levels? Definitely like the idea of vivariums that open at the side. Would make access easier. I have a naughty cat who sits and watches my mice whenever she can so I need something secure that she cant get into!


----------



## MojoMouse

The ladder is just a bird accessory. The mice preferred sticks to climb to the level though. The levels are cutlery stands. The one in the taller terrarium fitted, so I didn't need the legs - you can see the legs on the stand in the other terrarium.


----------



## AyJay658

Ahh so I see. Good idea!


----------



## MoonfallTheFox

Mine are pet mice.

But. I have a flying saucer in each cage (but may remove Augustus' saucer..he's exhibiting some very weird behavior lately.)

I have at least two cardboard hides and a tube in each cage and a sputnik hung from the tank lid.

I have a tank of does and a lone buck. :3


----------



## Meese

Mojo those are so cool, isn't it a pain in the butt to clean though?/


----------



## Cait

AyJay, if you keep the live mealworms in the fridge there isn't a problem with them turning into beetles. I used to breed African pygmy hedgehogs and always had a box of mealworms for them (it's like chocolate is to humans!) and none ever turned into beetles. The hedgehogs would only eat the live version, the same as my harvest mice, so I would say that the live mealworms are definitely preferred.


----------



## MojoMouse

Meese said:


> Mojo those are so cool, isn't it a pain in the butt to clean though?/


Yep, totally!  It was worth it when I just kept less than 5 mice as pets though. Cleaning wasn't a chore, it was part of the experience, and so much fun when I got to set up a new environment.

As a breeder though, I use tubs. They're not pretty, but more than adequate for the mice I keep, and MUCH easier to keep clean.

It's just a matter of what your focus and priorities are.


----------



## Meese

I use tubs too

Here I took a pic for you guys. Warning; not cleaned yet lol


----------



## Kallan

Mine get bedding, cardboard tubes and newspaper to make nests with (tear it into strips and leave it in a pile for them to organise). Then at box cleaning time the whole lot goes into the bin. Every box gets a coconut shell half for hiding in too - these get soaked and washed at every clean. Mice on their own get a wheel or other form of toy to keep them occupied.


----------

