# Mother ignoring two week olds



## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

Long story short, going on about three weeks ago I got a pair of mice from a feeder bin at a petstore, the female was pregnant ect.

anyways, I was gone for a majority of the morning that the babies were born, wasn't prepared ect. again and the male was still with the female.(no, I don't females having back to back litters)

SO as far as I can tell, the mother is pregnant again (though she started showing several days ago, I've even seen a baby moving independent of her breathing) the other litter has just turned 2 weeks old.

anyways, I noticed about 2 or so days ago while the babies would be nursing, their mother would move around alot, and generally act like she didn't want them nursing, but let them nurse for a while then would get up and leave, and today she's barely been with them at all, infact, it's been about four or five hours since she was last back in the nest, she's just been eating..and eating...and eating, which i know is normal. she acting like they they're not even there.

but I'm just wondering if there is a reason she's completely ignored the babies, if if it's just something they do (I've never had that problem, but then I never really used to have back to back litters either) I don't want them to starve to death, and I know they aren't old enough to eat solid food yet, but I don't have any other nursing mothers to give them to either =I

what can I do if she doesn't feed them? (note that I havn't handled them at all, seeing as they are supposed to help me build up a feeder colony)nnow I'm starting to wish that I had =I


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Hon, I don't why you brought home some new meeces without having the proper setup. The doe is stressed out and the reasons are obvious. Words fail me; very sad is all I can say.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

In light of finding your comment kind of rude, I will be the better person and say this: I am no novice when it comes to mice, having raised them since I was 8 ( so on and off for the better part of the last 15 years) I am simply out of practice if you will, having not had any in 3 years.

As I stated in the previous post, I had bought the pregnant female and the male with intent to breed them later, once the litter the doe was carrying was well weaned, I did not expect her to have the babies as soon as she did because she was not very big (having only had four) I expected to have atleast a few more days, so therefore was caught completely off-guard, mistakes happen *shrug* certainly I'm not the very person who has had mice have back to back litters, and let me tell you alot of people do it on purpose.

anyway, I guess she "lost" them last night xD, I finally gave in and had to show her where they were, so today she is making up for lost time.

she is getting bigger with this litter than she was last time (infact she started showing at around 11 days, so either a big litter or a small litter of big babies, which I am hoping for, in the latter case of more than 4 babies, I will cull down to 3 or 4)


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## thewesterngate (May 22, 2012)

Incidentally, I breed feeders as well as to work on colors just for S&Gs, and I slip up now and then and have back-to-backs. Recently it stressed me pretty good, but I managed to play musical chairs with some girls and got a couple good lactating nannies in with the poor girl to help. I'm fortunate that I always have a couple pregnant does, meaning they can help feed until they too drop their litter. I do try to separate bucks from them days before they drop though, as it's pretty obvious after a while.  Best of luck.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm not quite sure what, if anything, tells that you have a bad setup for your mice. I don't get that. At all.


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## sys15 (Nov 26, 2011)

two week old babies can eat solid food. some females are more attentive mothers than others. unless you're watching them 24 hours a day, just because you don't see her nursing doesn't mean she isn't. as long as the juveniles appear to be in good shape, i wouldn't worry about it.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I agree totally with sys15.


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

tinyhartmouseries said:


> I'm not quite sure what, if anything, tells that you have a bad setup for your mice. I don't get that. At all.


Housing a female that you know is pregnant, but don't know *how* pregnant, with a male strikes me as incredibly irresponsible.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

Fraction said:


> tinyhartmouseries said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not quite sure what, if anything, tells that you have a bad setup for your mice. I don't get that. At all.
> ...


wow people, just wow. the level of rudeness from certain people amazes me, so because someone houses a pregnant female with a male makes it irresponsible? no everyone can be lucky enough to have a fancy set up and cages or heck, even fancy show mice.( I would love to get show mice one day when I'm better equipt to care for them,but I can tell that is going to be like pulling teeth u_u, oh well)

*shrug* issue has been resolved so this post can go ahead and be deleted


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

Let's break it down.

You bought two mice, one male, one female.
The female was pregnant.
You decided to house those two mice, despite not knowing when the female got pregnant.
Therefore: you did not know when she would give birth.
So by housing those two together, you allowed the chance for back to back litters.

Sorry that you can't afford £5 to get some mesh and a plastic tub, I guess!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

If you had planned on separating the doe and buck, you should have been prepared for that, that is all I was trying to say. Back to back litters is a topic of serious contention, but shouldn't raise a flap, for pity's sake. We, here in the Forum, agreed to disagree on that topic long ago (months, at least, if not years...) There are reasons to do/not do that on both sides of that question.

Moving a pregnant doe can, all by itself, stress out a doe and cause her to miscarry or fail to take care of her babies. Having the buck in there with her just adds to the stress.

If you are prone to picking up mousies in the course of your daily rounds, you should carry a small tank so you don't have to rely on the little cardboard carriers that most stores provide; plus, if you breed, you should always have a few clean tanks and extra equipment/accessories just in case you need them for a new mousie, an sick mousie, sexing and separating the young when they are old enough. Etc etc.

What you did endangers the life of the mother and the babies, and that, in my mind, is not the way to go.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

I understand that, and as I even said, I don't like having back to back litters of babies, because I know how hard it is in the mother.

the poor thing is exhausted, I know that and I feel sorry for her, my intentions were not to let her get pregnant again, (infact I had planned on seperating the male the THAT day (had she not had the babies when she did, and had I not been gone) like I said I did not expect her to have only four, I expected her to be like most petstore line mice and have a huge litter.

as far as her being stressed out by the male, she absolutely loved him, she would regularly come up to him and beg to be groomed (he on the other hand was always like ''ugh, ok woman >.>" he adored the babies, and was actually protective of them (as per the bite on my finger >.>)

but I'm a firm believer in what's done is done, and there is nothing that can be done about it now, if the litter is too large I will cull it down,but I don't have the heart to cull off the entire new litter.(I have a feeling she'll have atleast 6 this time)

the male HAS been seperated now, and the mother will not be bred again for a very long time (if not ever)

and again, if anything I said sounded rude itself, I do apologize, but I tend to respond to rudeness with rudeness o3o


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## thewesterngate (May 22, 2012)

I agree the level of rudeness was a little uncalled for in a forum that explicitly states not to be overly critical. Crap happens, people slip up, and learn from it..this is my opinion.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

When I prefaced my post with 'Hon', I thought that made it clear that I was not attacking you personally.

I'm sorry you thought that was the case. I know you can't do anything about what has already occurred. I have done dumb things myself in the course of learning, and had consquences in the form of damaged/dead mousies. It's very hard for me to think past what happens to the babies and the mother. I absolutely hate it when I have health problems that affect babies; the only thing worse is losing the mother.

Again, my heart goes out to you, as I did not intend that you should feel personally attacked.


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## Carlie (Jun 21, 2012)

Hi, I'm new, but have my 2p-worth anyway because I am just that cheeky.

We make mistakes, we take it on the chin. Part of taking it on the chin is having your peers observe your mistakes and poke you for them; if not for your sake, then for the sake of people reading the forum and learning. Take a deep breath and suck it up. If nobody gave us crap for making mistakes, we wouldn't learn as quickly.

Animal welfare first - human fuzzy feelings and pride comes second.

Back on topic; the mum sounds stressed. I have an odd stressy little Chinchilla doe that leaves her babies and stuffs her face, without being in kindle while she's got a little. Fortunately, she had another doe in with her that looked after two litters while the neglectful doe was out dining. I don't think I'll use her for breeding again. I have her daughters to replace her now.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

moustress said:


> When I prefaced my post with 'Hon', I thought that made it clear that I was not attacking you personally.
> 
> I'm sorry you thought that was the case. I know you can't do anything about what has already occurred. I have done dumb things myself in the course of learning, and had consquences in the form of damaged/dead mousies. It's very hard for me to think past what happens to the babies and the mother. I absolutely hate it when I have health problems that affect babies; the only thing worse is losing the mother.
> 
> Again, my heart goes out to you, as I did not intend that you should feel personally attacked.


I understand, we all have the wellfare of our animals in mind (myself included) I keep kicking myself (because i should have seen the signs, not that she made a nest o3o, but rather had them under the bedding, only after a few days did she make a proper nest)

Like I said, I usually react to rudeness with rudeness (that's how I was brought up, trying to break myself of that habit xD) my grandma always said "if someone give you a hard time and you can't club em a good one, then use your voice and give em twice the tongue lashin' they gave you!" xD

but at anyrate, I know people will have their opinions, and we all have to deal with that, and it wasn't so much you, although atfirst i was a little put off because your first post sounded a bit short, but eh oh well, that's over with as well o3o.

I've been loading the momma up with as much extra protein as I can (she's rediculously picky, believe it or not -_-)

I feel bad because she's lop-sided, more babies on one side than the other.

I've even been trying to encourage the older bubs to eat more on their own by offering soaked dry cat food, which they nibble on..until their mother steals it.


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## Kitsune_Gem (Oct 15, 2011)

My question is why did you house them together in the first place if you knew the doe was pregnant.

The back to back litter could have been avoided if you took the male from her the moment you got home. Sometimes we get busy and dont have time to do things we plan to do later, resulting in back to back litters.

For the sake of the mother, IMO you should cull the next litter completely or foster them out to another mom.

She needs a break and time to recover, I fear letting her have another liter and letting them nurse will only cause her more stress, and take a big tole on her health.


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## sys15 (Nov 26, 2011)

moustress made a very good point about there being differences of opinion regarding back to back litters. i'm in the it's no big deal camp myself. if the female is receiving a calorie dense diet (which it certainly sounds like this mouse is), she should have no problem nursing two small litters back to back.

that's not to say that some mice might not be able to accommodate successive litters. but most should.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

In this case, I would tend to agree K.G., but, like I've said, it's up the keeper. It's hard to predict how any doe is going to react to a new litter in any case. We don't have perfect foresight, and sometimes hindsight, even if it's always 20/20, offers no help either. The only thing that I've ever been able to say that would be relevant here is that if you don't want to risk the life of an animal, don't breed it. There's always a risk of something going wrong, but life without risk would not be real life.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

Kitsune_Gem said:


> My question is why did you house them together in the first place if you knew the doe was pregnant.
> 
> The back to back litter could have been avoided if you took the male from her the moment you got home. Sometimes we get busy and dont have time to do things we plan to do later, resulting in back to back litters.
> 
> ...


The main reason I kept them together was because they were the only two in the feeder bin (yes, yes I know both males and females do fine alone, BUT I figured both could use some company up until it was time to seperate) and as it happened things got ahead of me and I had to leave, I;ve already thought ahead, and I know if she has more than four babies (which like I said, she most certainly is) then I will cull the litter down to 3 or 4 since I know she can handle that many, if 3 or 4 are still too many AND the olders are still mainly nursing, then I will either take the new litter down to one(or none), IF I see she absolutely cannot handle it.

as of right now (even with the pregnancy weight) she's in good condition, shiny coat, active ect.


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