# Retained Babies?



## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

One of my does give birth on Saturday. She still looks pregnant though and has a definite lump on the left hand side. I had a little feel today and it is a solid lump which moves when gentle pressure is applied. Is this a baby which has become stuck inside??

Is there anything that can be done? She seems healthy and not in discomfort so I am happy to keep her for as long as possible as she is contributing to caring for the babies. Ive reduced down incase I need to take her out so there is now 10 babies between 3 does and if I take her out then I can remove another couple of babies as there are 2 bucks when I only need one and one unmarked doe.
Any suggestions?


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## Dragonfly-Stud (Oct 5, 2008)

Every so often I find a new pinky in with 2 or 3 day old pups so guessing they can retain them, either that or the pinks are very good at hiding :lol:

As for the lump I recently had a 5 month old Dutch who dropped a small litter and still looked pregnant but nothing came of it, but the small litter never really grew properly so they were all culled after 2 weeks, I also culled the mother as she was producing rubbish but she still looked pregnant. After death the culprit was revealed it was evident she had a huge internal tumor which only showed itself after the muscles relaxed by poking an ugly shaped lump out at one side.
I guess this is why the pups didn't do well.

Hopefully not the same in your case but you never know.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

My feeling now is an internal tumour. I didnt think it would appear so suddenly but as you have had another case which came directly after pregnancy, the same as this one it seems like the most likely thing. 
I dont think any of the babies form her litter have made it, quite a few have been removed by the mothers so I think they cleared them all out, obviously they arent too fantastic. I am going to keep her for a little while as she is feeding the other babies which are thriving so I dont want to upset anything. 
Ill obviously cull her if she starts to look ill or lose condition. Its such a shame as she has nice type for a rumpwhite doe, which I have found hard to come across recently.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Well the lump changed a few days ago, it no longer sticks out at the side. When felt the lump is still there, same size and shape but it has moved more into the belly so less protruding. Today the doe looks like crap and has gone skinny very suddenly, theres also dried bloody and discharge from the vent area.

I really want to know what the problem was, as if its something I have done I will want to avoid it in the fututre. Is there a chance that she sustained some damage during the pregnancy or trauma during the birth?

The belly swelling and bloody discharge it reminds me of a pyometra but I've only ever seen that in dogs. Any ideas?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I think you have to accept that giving birth is very dangerous.even in this day and age with modern medicine it's the most hazardous thing a woman will do.Losses in livestock are inevitable.pyometra is a puss filled womb caused by germs getting through an open cervix after birth or in the case of dogs after being in season.Ferrets also get it if they aren't mated and remain in prolonged season.Mice?who knows but a womb infection is likely.A hernia might also be the problem common during pregnancy.I doubt that there is anything you can do,just rotten luck.It seems like you are having a bad run at the moment


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## Dragonfly-Stud (Oct 5, 2008)

As the doe is a rumpwhite could this be a pre birth death in the womb that is over due, should be still born I know but is it possible?
Just a thought.


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## Marjolijn (Jan 1, 2009)

Pyometra can happen in any species of animals. It can happen after birth, with or without retaining pups or pieces of placenta. It can also happen when the doe is in oestrus (ready for mating). The cervix is then open (just a bit, but enough for bacteria to get in).

I suspect your doe has a pyometra with retained pups or placenta, since she never became thin again. After a few days the infections will spread through her hole body and she'll become septic. It's is a deadsentence for a mouse, even with intensive care she never recover completly and will become infertile. There is not much you can do for he now. Only option is to operate on the mouse shortly after birth to get out any remaining pups and placenta parts. Not without risk and usually they don't survive.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Dragonfly-Stud said:


> As the doe is a rumpwhite could this be a pre birth death in the womb that is over due, should be still born I know but is it possible?
> Just a thought.


Lethal genes in mice like rw and fawn are never formed into proper babies, they are reabsorbed at around 2-6 days after conception from what I have read. So I doubt that this would be a case of something to do with one of these non viable babies. I must have bred 100s of rw litters and never had this problem - but then I've never had it with any variety so it could just be good luck. I would tend to agree with the hernia or infection explanation as much more likely.


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## Dragonfly-Stud (Oct 5, 2008)

As said just a thought did doubt it but you never know, but as your the experienced R/W breeder I bow to your knowledge.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Its just one of those things I guess. I generally dont handle does once they get really big and about to pop but the other two gave birth a day or so before this one so I took them all out to have a head count of the pinkies, I hope I didnt damage her in some way.

Sh eis going off to be culled with a big group of surplus, I'll mention it to my friend who does the deed for me and she might be interested in doing an autopsy to see if there were any retained babies. I reckon it might be an infection (possibly caused by retained babies), considering how quickly the doe has gone down hill.

I'd be interested to know as it did stirke me as quite odd and somethign I've not seen before.... thanks so much for all the comments and suggestions


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