# Breeding better Agouti. :)



## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

Well, I looooves agouti, and have some of my own(who hasn't). But I want to know how to make a better Agouti with just some poor agouti's. I've read on finnmouse that red, cinnamon or black tan can be used as outcross', but I wanna hear what you here on FMB says.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I'd use only red heterozygous for agouti (Ay/A), agouti, or cinnamon.

Chocolate or black tan are the next best options. but then you will have animals who are A/a or A/at instead of A/A for a while.

Make sure that whatever you're using doesn't carry any blue, C-locus recessives, pink eyes, spots, non-standard coat-types, etc. Those things can take years to remove from a line once you introduce them.

Are you trying to improve color or type or both? If it's just color you're after, red might be the best bet. If it's both or just type, red isn't going to be the best--I'd go for cinnamon if possible.


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

that looks hard! everything here in DK carries a number of those "forbidden-genes".. 

I don't wanna use Ay based colors, because of the healthproblems there comes with it :/

but i know a danish breeder who's breeding cinnamon, so maybe I should borrow one of her. 

Jack Garcia You're the man!


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Haha! Thanks. 

Don't feel bad--it's the same in the US (and, I gather, in the UK as well). So many hobby breeders breed their mice together with contradictory pairings that it makes it difficult when you want to do something well because you can't find a suitable outcross! The folks who do this almost always have good intentions, but it potentially makes improving any line with an outcross very difficult down the road both for themselves and for others. That's why I'm a big advocate of keeping lines as pure as possible, so that when you need them, you have them!

If you breed a red (Ay/*) to an agouti, most or all of the agouti babies will not have health-related problems; only the reds would. However, if the reds are poor mothers, that *is* passed on to non-red offspring (unlike obesity and diabetes).

So in short--there are pros and cons with whatever you use.


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

well, I wouldn't use Ay in any way of my breeding, it is the mice who pays the price.

but what do the cinnamon do to the agouti color? make it redish(or what you guys use of fancy words..)

hope you understand, it's 3 am over here in dk


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah, cinnamon can help make the agouti redder, but in future generations you may get cinnamons. It can also help even out the ticking if the cinnamon has better ticking than the agouti, which I've found (in America) is often the case...both agouti and cinnamon have a common tendency of uneven ticking and poor color distribution, but agouti is often worse, especially poorly-bred agouti.

Cinnamon and agouti are very complimentary colors and I know people who breed both in the same line.


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

Okay, maybe i should try that


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Good luck with whatever you do!

Agouti is one of those varieties that is pretty common but is rarely done well. A good agouti mouse is definitely capable of winning the highest of awards. They're stunning animals, really.


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

well it's better trying than not trying.. and I'm so far the only one over here who want's to improve Agouti.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

When you have some really nice agoutis, be sure to post pictures.


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

i can show you the two i have right now, i also have one when i need him to breeding


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

sorry, three, 2 girls and one boy, and a boy i can borrow


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

Sisse Agouti Tan SHS









Agouti Tan LHS
Juna









Agouti Self SHS Aby/rosette 
Hannibal


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

The last mouse appears black to me...


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

To me too.

That satin agouti tan is absolutely scrumptious!


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## MiceGalaxyDK (May 26, 2009)

I know.. he's really dark, but i got him because he's SH aby/rosette.

And he's to dark for my taste, but I will still use him in the agouti breeding. 

but if some his offspring is as dark as he is I won't use them to further breeding, i like when you can see if the mouse is agouti. 

hope that it make sence


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