# Piebald x piebald= self???? how is possible??



## Patry (Sep 1, 2011)

Hi!

A friend of mine has been a litter between two piebald. Doe is piebald silver agouti, and buck is piebald champagne longhair. Well, in the litter there are 8 babies, and all, all are self!! :O

This is Deline










Her pedigree









And Cocotel, the father, parents unknown










And the litter
Agouti, s. agouti, argente, argente creme (and possible champagne)



























She is sure that Deline only has been with Cocotel....

Some explanation?? :/


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

Probably dealing with two different spotting genes, the dame looks piebald [s/s] the sire looks like he may be belted


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## Patry (Sep 1, 2011)

I don´t think he is belted, here there is usually not found it. Coco is brought in a pet shop.


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

They say belted is rare here too, but I've got several belted and belted carriers lurking in my bins. Since it's recessive it will 'hide' in lines for a long time until change brings it out again.

And after seeing the new pics I think he is belted even more. To prove it breed a daughter back to him in a few months. If you get pups with only markings along the middle of the body then you'll have your answer.


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## candycorn (Oct 31, 2011)

Yep..He definitely looks belted. And yes, I found a belted mouse in a pet store myself once. It is possible.


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## Patry (Sep 1, 2011)

mmm...I don´t Know how to prove...here we do not imbreeding...:/


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## candycorn (Oct 31, 2011)

Patry said:


> mmm...I don´t Know how to prove...here we do not imbreeding...:/


Search this forum for inbreeding or line breeding and you will be flooded with posts on the topic. To get good healthy mice almost all breeders inbreed. 
Mice are not the same as humans, inbreeding can actually improve health and create beautiful mice!


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## Patry (Sep 1, 2011)

Thanks! but here is not very common breeding mice, why we do not inbreeding...Perhaps we are wrong, we have much to learn about it


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## morning-star (Apr 9, 2011)

interbreeding is a really good thing! it pulls out all the genes you want, and strengthens all those lovely traits you want to keep (like big ears etc etc) 
All show breeders line-breed.

also did you use a programme for that family tree thing or just your own creation? it's pretty cool!


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## Patry (Sep 1, 2011)

In Spain is bad seen inbreeding, and therefore we do not. We have a little scared with that, similarity with other animals...

Mornig-star, the pedigree is been with mousery database: http://mouserydatabase.com/. Is very cute


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

How far away would you need to be before the negative stigma of inbreeding wouldn't apply? Grandmice? Great, grandmice? Just curious, do you have to buy specific varities from outside the country, or do people do it but just not talk about it?


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## Patry (Sep 1, 2011)

We try to put in couple mice without any kind of relationship, therefore, it´s hard for us to get new colours, and we need more volume of mice. It´s very difficult to get new colours and coats without to do inbreeding. In Spain is not very common breeding mice for pet, and only there are a few breeders we do. I have a few mice with relation, but I don´t use with other mice for this reason...:/

We need to learn about mice in general, and more specifically on inbreeding, because maybe we are wrong.

We don´t have mice to other contries except when there are animals fairs. For example, my satin and texel are purchased for a dutch man. Here there aren´t many varieties of mice 

Thanks for all your explanations!


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