# Nanny or no nanny?



## Fantasia Mousery

So, I have used nannies for my litters only with great success. I chose a nanny based on the mom of the litter: someone from her group that seemed somewhat neutral (I never had to choose between 'getting along well with', because I always take out any kind of trouble maker in a group). When I have done thise, I waited till the pups were around 2 weels old before I added the nanny. Thought it was good for help raising them.
But I've read quite a few times now that nannies can steal/eat some of the babies. I'm not the type to _only_ go with my own experiences, I'd like to know other's as well.

So, what are your thoughts?
If you add a nanny, how do you choose? What are your experiences? Why do you do it?
If you don't add one, why not? I suppose the mom won't have any trouble handling a litter by herself?

I also realise that some cull down to 4-6 pups, leaving the mom much less stressed and less to look after, where I wouldn't (based on me being a few mice pet type breeder) cull to less than 8-10.


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## Patry

I always put a babysitter, I try to be a non-protective, I have seen some who has stolen babies ¬¬

I choose one with good character and it went well ^^


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## Fantasia Mousery

Oh, and maybe I should just add that when possible I have chosen nannies who have had litters themselves, because I was advised to do so.


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## Cordane

Never used a nanny but that is only because I never knew how to go about it and when to introduce etc


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## morning-star

nanny! 
so far I am finding putting in a young doe in to help with a few litters before she gets bred herself means she gains experience with raising them and in turn becomes a more 'loving' and wise mother (who's less likely to eat the bubs!) also the more experience they have at a young age the better the nanny they become with each litter you put them with.


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## Fantasia Mousery

morning-star said:


> nanny!
> so far I am finding putting in a young doe in to help with a few litters before she gets bred herself means she gains experience with raising them and in turn becomes a more 'loving' and wise mother (who's less likely to eat the bubs!) also the more experience they have at a young age the better the nanny they become with each litter you put them with.


Thank you! That's really nice advice.


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## Fraction

morning-star said:


> nanny!
> so far I am finding putting in a young doe in to help with a few litters before she gets bred herself means she gains experience with raising them and in turn becomes a more 'loving' and wise mother (who's less likely to eat the bubs!) also the more experience they have at a young age the better the nanny they become with each litter you put them with.


That's very interesting; I wonder if it mirrors what would happen if they were wild? With some wild mammals, the daughters stay with the mothers to help raise the next litter and then move on - a good example of this would be wild wolf packs.

It would make a lot of sense if that would be natural behaviour for wild mice. If so, putting all females from the mother's most recent litter in when she births the next would be a very good, natural way to teach them how to be good mothers.


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## morning-star

I was told in the wild mothers do not tend to raise litters together -though daughters and mothers might I'm not sure really! lol


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## Au Naturel

I use nanny's depending on the mom, size of litter and so on. I do have a few does that seemed to get stressed if another adult were in the picture. Sometimes, if possible, I put 2 moms with their litters together when the babies are about 2 weeks and they help eachother out and the pups learn more about living in a flock that way. I have experienced reallu docile mice changing the temper after having a litter so I simply wont use them again. Temper is ver important to me in the groups.


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## tinyhartmouseries

I don't use nannies. I used to, but I had some trouble with one of my very fine nannies starting to steal and hoarde babies she wasn't able to feed. I just decided to stop and all of my moms have been fine. The absolute safest way to ensure the babies will be protected from this is just to leave only mom in the tank. IMO moms do just fine alone.


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## thewesterngate

I let them raise babies together in a harem with or without the father. I find that if the mother gets a little worn down, nannies are great at keeping the babies clean and warm while mom gets to take a break and eat.  Only had one issue with a mom culling her cagemate's babies and sparing her own.


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## Gill

I try to have two does kindle at the same time, especially if one is a first-time mother, so that they can share the nursing duties. Of course, bucks make the best nannies, but then there is one little problem............. Has anyone ever tried using a neutered buck as a nanny?


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## Fantasia Mousery

Gill said:


> Has anyone ever tried using a neutered buck as a nanny?


I've heard about this, and actually considered having a couple of neutered bucks with my girls just for that purpose.


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## PPVallhunds

i prefur to have at least 2 girls bred at the same time so they can have there litters tougher and all share in the raising of the babies. the way i see it more milk to go around and less work for mums, but a healthy mum with a normal sized litter should have no problem doing it alown. I have also left in non pregnant females in with mothers with my siamese. as they live at work i dont have the space to seperate out the females so ill put a pair in with the buck untill they start to show then put them back into the group, (of if all the girls are suitable to breed at the same time ill just pop the buck and all the girls tougher then take him out when one is about to pop) I have had desaster 3 times in 2 years. 
1st - a black doe i wanted to breed along with her mother and other sister, all three got pregnant and someone munched the litters so had to split them all up to breed the next time to find out which one it was so they could be removed form the breeding program.
2nd - a siamese doe (tipicaly the best shading i had bred yet) she was in with her sister both pregnant and the litters got munched so bred them again but they didnt look pregnent at all so decided id leave them a while and try again, well turned out they were pregnant but just not showing at all and they got munched, split them up and her sister raised a litter perfectly and she munched hers.
3rd - was reasont, an acidently pregancy in my fox group as i had a male i had to seperate and had no where to put him so he stayed there for 1 night, out of 8 does 1 got pregnant and somone munched on hers.

Other than that all the others have raised litters tougher with no problem, i guess if both females are pregnant id doesnt matter realy if she wants to steal a baby as she can feed it and as long as mum is ok with it. I had one doe who kept moving all the babies between two houses and it did anoy the other mother but i just took one of the houses out so she left them in the other house then.

I had a male in with a female once, thought she was barron as she was with him for 3 months and nothing, then one day she gave birth but was not a good mum and had injured most of the babies and munched some, when i went in there the male who was still in with her had taken 3 of the babies away and was hugging them keeping them safe. After removing all but those 3 mum settled down and raised them propperly, but as you would expect she get pregnant again after birth and the second litter it was just her and the 3 daughters and mum munched the new litter. The male was soo good with the babies so i dont see why a good natured neutered male would be any diffrent as long as he was in there befor she gave birth he would think the babies were his.


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## Gill

Joanne, you mention your buck protecting pinkies from culling. The same thing happened to me. I have a buck who, for a long time, failed to work out what to do with a doe, but made a brilliant nanny. I actually saw him guarding a litter, and fending off the mother who had already culled some. I had to remove the offending doe before he would come out of the nest to feed! (another nursing doe adopted the remaing pinkies).


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## wowwy

it seems like mice adopt others easily is that true???


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## Au Naturel

I've mostly had succes with popping remaining pinkies in other nests, had one time where the nanny started off'ing the original babies so removed her after I founded the first dead baby soon after. But the rest of the time, Ive had no issues at all with it.

Ive heard only good things about having a doe and her buck keep an eye on the litter together, the only reason, I havent gone for it myself is that I never wanted to breed a doe twice in a row and neutering bucks is not an option here. Moms take good care of the litters them self and the few times, a mom was looking poorly, I culled the litter or combined 2 good tempered moms w. litters so they could help eacother out.


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## We Love Mouse

In the last litter, I have a nanny helping the mum raising a litter. The nanny already live with the mum before I bred her, so they have no trouble getting along. When she finally gave birth, the nanny helps her cleaning, but them back into the nest if they craw out and keeping them warm. I think it depends on the mice you have, if they get along well and shown no signs of stealing the pups, then I think it is alright to have nannies with the mum.


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## ArchNL

I've had a really good experiance with multipul nannies. I got a baby mouse from the pet shop.. the person who bred them was breeding them for show and sending the surplus to the petshop as pets. Well my girl got caught and has had babies who are now around 5-7 days old. I haven't removed the other females as they are helping mum keep the nest clean and keeping them warm while she goes and eats/drinks. Mum was very stressed and I think I'd of lost the whole litter if it wasn't for the other girls helping out so I think a nanny is a great idea as long as the nanny is a good temprament and doesn't cull the babies. The only one I saw the mother cull herself as she was stressed and seems to have calmed down since she has less babies to feed.


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## madmouse

I like to use nannies and have never had a bad experience. As soon as I see a pregnant doe begin to put on weight, I introduce her and either her mother, grandmother, or another trusted nanny (if she has no relatives) to each other in a neutral tank. I find if I introduce the nanny to the mother a week or more before birth, it will sometimes even stimulate her to lactate. Once, with the help of two nannies, I had a rhino who raised 18 out of a litter of 21.


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## Carlie

I like to use nannies and always pair girls up when breeding.

However, I have had a bad experience, and not the usual nanny-stealing-babies stuff. I had two sisters in with a buck and only one had a litter. They were wonderfully tempered mice and the 'nanny' was quiet and even tempered. When the pregnant doe gave birth, she savaged her sister and left her blind in one eye, along with a wound just below her ear that never seemed to heal, despite antibiotics.

I will still leave in a nanny mouse, but try to keep an eye on them for any conflict.


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## wowwy

Wow that sounds terrible i would hate to go thru that or put a mouse thru that. As i know its not your fault abviously. If your confused of what im trying to say :?


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## candycorn

I never use them. But per suggestion from someone who breeds Reds, I left my two expecting girls togeather and they are co-raising a joint litter of eight. It's going well so far (knock on wood).


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## Carlie

wowwy said:


> Wow that sounds terrible i would hate to go thru that or put a mouse thru that. As i know its not your fault abviously. If your confused of what im trying to say :?


Yeah, it was really sad as they were my favourite does at the time.

Eventually the doe that had the litter developed a condition that pushed her eye downwards. I'm wondering if she had a tumour of sorts inside her skull, which was putting pressure on the eye.

Both mice became thoroughly miserable, so I euthanised them both. It was not my finest hour.  I still have all the offspring though. Some unexpected blues, lilacs and cinnamons, which are very pretty.


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## wowwy

I would love some cinnamin colored mice in my oppinion they look better then agoutis not saying i dont like agouti's i just like the cinnamin color better.


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## Carlie

Cinnamons are lovely. My favourite are Cinnamon Tans, with Beautiful rich red colours. I have both a buck and a doe from that litter that are grown up now. I'll try to get some nice photos of them.


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