# Topaz's Duo, wait.. Trio!



## Cordane

Mother : Himalayan doe carrying spotting









Father : Piebald Burmese diluted buck carrying chocolate and pink eyes









If I'm being honest, there was no point in this litter other than to have a foster in case my older doe (Xia) couldn't look after her litter when she has it. It didn't quite work out as planned however because Xia took a fair while to get pregnant so I'm not sure how far off she is. *sigh*

I checked on Topaz and Xia today at around 10.30am to find three bubs, two alive inside the next and one barely formed dead bub outside the nest. I removed the dead bub and left her to it until around 3pm which at that point, I sexed them (well tried) and took a few pictures.
















I did think 3 bubs was a small number considering her weight gain. While it was only 11g, I've had other does only gain 10g and pop out 7 bubs easily. Turns out, I was right!
Came back at 5.30pm and what do you know - 3 more bubs. Sadly, two dead (one formed and one half eaten) and one alive.

So all in all, 3 bubs alive - all dark eyed and full milk bellies. They seem strong, noisey buggers too!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Those pictures are adorable. :love1


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## andypandy29us

cute x


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## Cordane

Three (A boy and two girls) little babies, two full days old!


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## Cordane

Update for you all!
Topaz's litter is doing fantastically, lovely chubby babies! The does are the pieds and to my.. "surprise" they already have homes!
















And despite my hestation on posting pictures of this litter, I'll post updates anyway.
Xia gave birth yesterday to 8 babies (5 boys and 3 girls, one girl being the runt). While yes, I would usually cull the runt, in this situation I would rather decrease the amount of boys first to see if she picks up. Thankfully both Topaz and Xia are working together to raise both litters  And the runt definitely isn't lacking in getting food - she always has the biggest milk belly!


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## blackbirdmice

Aww <3
They are all so beautiful. Good luck with your runt. I personally made the decision to keep a runty doe from my last litter and at 10 weeks she is the exact same size as her sisters. You might find that she has qualities that the others don't


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## andypandy29us

love the cow baby .... and good luck with the new litter


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## Cordane

Time for a quick update 

Topaz's litter :
The buck is a dilute agouti and the girls, seems like I may have a burmese and a lighter mock chocolate!


And of course Xia's litter :
Doe, Buck, Buck, Doe, Buck, Doe


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Oh they look really good! Mine all have their eyes open and bouncing around, and I miss the stages yours are in! Just out of curiosity, did the smaller doe end up catching up, or was she culled?


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## Cordane

TwitchingWhiskers said:


> Oh they look really good! Mine all have their eyes open and bouncing around, and I miss the stages yours are in! Just out of curiosity, did the smaller doe end up catching up, or was she culled?


You can't spot her? She's in there 
While yes, the litter size was decreased : I culled 2 boys because another of the does started being effected (weight gain decreased dramatically with her) but after culling, their weight gain definitely picked up. The runt is still definitely smaller but is gaining the same, if not more than many of her siblings so, for now, I see no reason for her to be culled.
Likely, she will end up staying here and keeping Azure company (current cage mate is.. well.. her quality of life is in question).

Oh! And no doubt now that I mention which one is the runt, it will seem so obvious.
She is the one on the far right in the baby line-up.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Yeah I see her now. Good luck, I hope she continues to grow up, she looks a lot better.


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## Cordane

TwitchingWhiskers said:


> Yeah I see her now. Good luck, I hope she continues to grow up, she looks a lot better.


I'm just glad you had to ask in the first place, means she definitely isn't as obvious as she was in the beginning. The weight gain is currently averaging between 8 and 12 grains per day (0.5 and 0.7g per day) which is pretty average but that will increase as they age - I seem to be expecting a lot from this litter even though they are only 5 days old haha.

On a little side note.
Gosh are these two litters noisy boogers!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Certainly not as obvious. With just a quick look over it is hard to spot her, that definitely a good sign.


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## Cordane

In a slightly surprising turn of events, (is that even the right saying?) My runt is no longer the "runt of the litter". Their weights vary quite drastically I must admit..
The bucks current weights are : 5.31, 5.05 and 3.88
The does current weights are : 5.18, 4.92 and 3.95

I'm not terribly worried about the runt because while she is small, she is still gaining 0.64-0.77 per day which is the same as the others so far but I am worried about the smallest buck. His daily weight gain has been slowly decreasing over the days. So sadly, I am thinking about culling him though I'm not sure how to go about it. (They are 6 days old today)


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## DaisyTailsMousery

At this point I would throw them


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Head over to the culling section maybe? I'm not going to explain anything as I don't want to scare anyone. :shock:


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## Cordane

Just started a thread in the culling section. And don't worry, I try to avoid the topic of culling with most people anyway. Gosh I've gotten some horrible looks when someone found out..


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## DaisyTailsMousery

I know how you feel. I'm part of a mouse breeder group on facebook and when I saw a litter of 15 that was 4 days old I explained to the owner what culling was and why we do it and suggested that it would be better for momma and babies if she culled the litter down.... And she called me a senseless murderer and blocked me


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## Cordane

Oh gosh. Thankfully I've never had someone call me a senseless murderer but geez! Any one who gets in contact with me in regards to breeding (I seem to be the one people come to or the one people direct others to), they generally understand that I'm very serious about it. I'm pretty sure many of the people who get in contact with me say they will cull but never do. 
I shall see how this current person.. deals with my "ways". It's always interesting finding a way to bring up culling without sounding quite heartless.


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## DaisyTailsMousery

When people ask me what culling is or how to I ALWAYS explain in great detail why first. I love it when people actually listen and do it and most people do but every once in a while someone comes along who just doesn't get it


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## Cordane

Thought I would do another quick update. 
Topaz's litter opened their eyes yesterday/today and they are as cute as can be right now! Not popcorning and still falling asleep in my hand <3


And of course, Xia's litter. Down to 5 bubs - 3 girls and 2 boys. All are doing very well. Runty is the only one who is still able to be weighed on the gun powder scale but give her a day and that will be it. 
The boys : I won't be keeping either of them so far. While they are nice little pets, I find that my current buck (their Dad) is still better.


The girls : Runty will be staying her with me to keep her mother company since this is her final litter. So far, my pick for the girl remaining as a breeder is the white faced girl (middle) as she has a nicer head shape in my opinion


And since part of me is hoping that you cannot tell which one runty is - she is the top bub


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## DaisyTailsMousery

Runty doesn't look very runty anymore


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## Cordane

Nothing to really update on with Xia's litter - They are 13 days old today but eyes have yet to open. I'll update with pictures in a few more days 

As for Topaz's litter :
They are 18 days old now and thankfully, not at all popcorny! The buck is officially staying with me while the girls have a new home with a friend 

Piebald Lighter Mock Chocolate Doe


Piebald Burmese Doe


And one very handsome Dilute Agouti Buck


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## TwitchingWhiskers

What a handsome thing! They look great.


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## RockyMountainMice

They look great!! That boy is quite handsome.


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## Cordane

He has lovely type in comparison to his siblings - lovely big eyes, solid shape, rounded nose.

And here's another little update! Xia's litter opened their eyes yesterday afternoon - the runt is still smaller than the rest but she was the second baby to open their eyes


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## RockyMountainMice

He certainly does!! He should produce some fine kin. Awe, Xia's litter is at that growing-every-second age. :love1


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## TwitchingWhiskers

They're so cute! I love the first picture.


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## andypandy29us

beautiful mice


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## rumy91989

Such beautiful babies! Congrats!


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## Cordane

Another update - one that I think is full of cuteness.
Today was cage cleaning day for them so I placed them all into a temporary tank, after I cleaned everything and set it up, I picked the babies up one by one, handling them a little and placing the older bubs and Mums back in first. I decided to grap a few snaps of the youngins before I put them back. Apparently the experience of the temporary tank just pooped them out! Despite their eyes being open, they insisted on falling asleep on my hand :


And a short video (26 or so seconds long)
Click Here


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## Sharon_

omg they are toooo cute!


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## angelofwhimsy

Oooh, how utterly sweet!


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## ThatCertainGlow

Such a sweet video.


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## RockyMountainMice

Way to cute!! :love1

Do you keep your nursing does in groups? I've been curious about trying that out.


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## Cordane

RockyMountainMice said:


> Do you keep your nursing does in groups? I've been curious about trying that out.


Usually no. Xia is that start of my type line and I wanted to get a third litter out of her - she is now 14 months. It was an error on my part but the point being is that I wanted to make sure she would have help if need be, a foster really.
Housing then together seemed to have worked out well but I probably won't be doing it again.


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## RockyMountainMice

Ah I see, that makes sense! I was just curious. Glad everything worked out for you.


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## Cordane

RockyMountainMice said:


> Ah I see, that makes sense! I was just curious. Glad everything worked out for you.


Thank you! I'm actually surprised at how many "risks" I took with Xia's litter. 
Xia was put with Bentley, Topaz with Junior.
Topaz is a first time Mum. Xia is more experienced.
I had originally decided to house them separately because I wasn't sure Xia was even pregnant but then I decided to house them together and turns out, Topaz gave birth the very next day.

I'm amazed it turned out as well as it did.


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## RockyMountainMice

Oh I see, well, that's great! Sometimes you have to do the best you can with whatever options you have.


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## Cordane

And a picture update!

Topaz's litter is now 24 days old 


And Xia's litter is 19 days old. The first two are the boys and little runty is the last one.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

They are all just too cute!


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## Cordane

*Topazs Litter - 4 weeks and 3 days old*
My keeper buck who still doesn't have a name..

Sapphire and Topaz Jnr (both of which will be going to their new home on the 17th)


The little buck in this litter is the sweetest thing ever, always happy to climb onto my hand and laps up any attention you give him!

*Xia's Litter - 3 weeks and 5 days old.* None of these guys have names as of yet.
My Keepers (Buck, Doe and Runty)


Sadly, runty is still obviously small and extremely nervous. Half of the time, you go to pick her up and she will squeak.. Poor darling.

This lucky little lady has found a home and is going to her new home with Topaz on the 17th to keep an older doe company.


And the gorgeous little boy who has yet to find a home. But I doubt anyone will be able to resist his face for long


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Everyone is looking good, I am especially fond of the dilute buck.


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## ThatCertainGlow

Lovely little darlings.  Your keeper buck from Topaz is a doll. Not sure about the winking child. lol I'm sure I'll see him in more pictures later. 

Sorry to hear about Runty. I was thinking her fur turned out really pleasing, until I read that she squeaks, when you go to hold her, half the time.


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## Candyzmo

The black and white ones look like little trouble makers


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