# Is albino a recessive gene?



## lifelongcannibal

I usually don't mess with genetics and stuff, but being a feeder breeder some people/places prefer white mice, or albinos... so my question is, with this buck http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s67 ... 37544c.jpg

and this doe (albino) http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s67 ... 1b639e.jpg
can some of her pinkies there be albino? I don't have an albino buck, looking to either breed one or buy one.

so can albino be a recessive gene? 
btw those are not all her babies. there are 2 or 3 litters there. Also, what would those two types of colors be called?

ps sorry i had to link the pics, but had issues with file sizes being too large :?


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## Cordane

Albino is a recessive gene so it would take two of the gene (c) to show it.
I cannot tell you if that pairing will give you and albino because we don't know what that buck carries in regards to c dilutes. Your best way to get an albino buck would be to breed a buck to an albino then breed any buck, (all babies from the pairing will carry the albino gene) from their litter to an albino


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## lifelongcannibal

so what you're saying is take one of those babies, say a buck, and breed it to a different albino doe?


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## andypandy29us

no take one of the baby bucks and when he is old enough breed him back to his mom ....


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## lifelongcannibal

andypandy29us said:


> no take one of the baby bucks and when he is old enough breed him back to his mom ....


Why would his mom be any different than another albino doe?


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## Cordane

lifelongcannibal said:


> andypandy29us said:
> 
> 
> 
> no take one of the baby bucks and when he is old enough breed him back to his mom ....
> 
> 
> 
> Why would his mom be any different than another albino doe?
Click to expand...

She wouldn't be which is why I said "an albino doe". 
Ok, so I'll be more "specific". Breed an albino doe to whichever buck you please, (doesn't have to be albino, just male). From that pairings litter, keep a buck, any buck you choose - they will all carry the albino gene (C/c) - and pair that buck with ANY albino doe, (whether that be the Mum or another, it doesn't really matter). The resulting offspring will all be carriers of the albino gene or albino themselves.
If that doesn't give you an albino, you can repeat the pairing or try again with any offspring produced in the two litters - you can either put a buck and doe together from the litters or a buck to an albino doe and so on.


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## lifelongcannibal

thanks, perhaps andy was being sarcastic


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## pro-petz

No andy was providing the next quickest step as the buck would be carring the albino gene and as such should produce albinos with the pairing


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## andypandy29us

no I wasnt being sarcastic  breeding back to the parent will help give the offspring the recessive gene


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## moustress

A nonalbino has C (dominant meaning one copy controls over the recessive c) and c(albino). An albino has two copies of the recessive albino gene c; Cc + cc= 50% Cc (nonalbino) and 50% cc (albino). In practice the odds can give a different percentage. Being a double recessive, albino can conceal any color, it dilutes to pink eyes and white fur regardless of what other genes are present. Two albinos always will produce 100% albino offspring.


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## Cordane

But since this person does not have an albino buck to pair with an albino doe, they will have to take the slightly longer path.

So whether you breed the offspring buck back to the mum or another albino, it really does not matter. 
I like to give my females a decent break after weaning bubs so the quickest route for me would be to breed the offspring buck (albino carrier) to a different albino doe.


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## lifelongcannibal

AHH, now the punnet squares are coming back to me. I see, say the buck was black, he would be heterozygous for albino, correct? and punnet square says 50% chance. thanks all


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## lifelongcannibal

this is such a cool science! by the way, what would that tan colored buck be called? is brindle that color with some speckled black? i do breed feeders, but i enjoy different types.


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## Cordane

The produce buck, if black would be heterozygous for albino, yes.
Umm, I can't say about the tan colour. He looks like he has "blue" throughout in bits. What colour is his undercoat?


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## lifelongcannibal

Ha I don't know how to look for undercoat color. Don't worry about it, I was just curious. Thanks though


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## Cordane

lifelongcannibal said:


> Ha I don't know how to look for undercoat color. Don't worry about it, I was just curious. Thanks though


How can you not? :lol: 
Just part the coat on the mouse. The colour I'm curious is basically the "root" or base of the hair/coat


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## lifelongcannibal

well I guess i could, but my mice are out in the shed and it got dark here in florida about 4 hours ago. i May go look in a minute and get back to you

edit: in fact i will


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## Cordane

lifelongcannibal said:


> well I guess i could, but my mice are out in the shed and it got dark here in florida about 4 hours ago. i May go look in a minute and get back to you
> 
> edit: in fact i will


Alright then  It may very well help identify his colour or at least narrow it down


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## lifelongcannibal

I _believe_ he has a blue undercoat.


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## gyri

I read this entire thread a couple times and feel like the obvious (to people who know genetics) hasn't been stated unless I read right past it twice. Unless you know that your buck does not carry the albino gene then your pairing might produce some albino offspring. If your buck carries a single copy of the albino gene then half the young with your albino doe will be albino as well and there is no way to know if that is the case if the buck is of an unknown background until your pups start to grow hair. Either about half the young will be albino or none of them will. Like you said... punnett square, its just that one of the columns is a question mark.


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## lifelongcannibal

well yea, i know. and in the case that he does not carry it, then the babies will still have it recessively, and when one of them is paired with an albino, they will probably have some albino babies. but like you said, we will know in a few days whether or not he does carry it. though now that i thinknof it he probably does not, because i bred him with a couple albinos and have had no albino babies


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## gyri

Ahh, if he's bred with albinos before without having albino young then you've got the right idea almost for sure. I only recently learned my agouti male carried an albino gene when I bred him to one of his daughters that he had passed it onto and four of the young came out albino. He'd bred to a few females before but never had albino young. Its amazing what you learn about your mice's hidden recessive genes with a little inbreeding


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## lifelongcannibal

ohhhhh, now i see the significance of inbreeding! because you can discover recessive genes due to the fact that direct relatives will (sometimes) have the same recessive genes. cool!


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## Cordane

lifelongcannibal said:


> I _believe_ he has a blue undercoat.


Ta da! He is an argente - a pink eyed agouti.


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## gyri

lifelongcannibal said:


> ohhhhh, now i see the significance of inbreeding! because you can discover recessive genes due to the fact that direct relatives will (sometimes) have the same recessive genes. cool!


You nailed it!


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## lifelongcannibal

Cordane said:


> lifelongcannibal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I _believe_ he has a blue undercoat.
> 
> 
> 
> Ta da! He is an argente - a pink eyed agouti.
Click to expand...

I sure see 'agouti' a lot. What makes a mouse agouti? and have you just been doing this for a long time to know all of these varieties, or is there a bluebook of sorts?


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## Cordane

Haha, I've been trying to understand genetics for about 3 years now but it only really "sunk in" and stopped going through one ear and out the other in probably July this year. Have only actually had maybe 6 litters born here in all honesty so definitely haven't been doing this for long. 
Hiiret.fi is where I learnt about it all - fantastic website. 
What makes an agouti.. Agouti is the dominant trait so you only need one of the genes to be able to have an agouti - it cannot be carried. On the A locus (locus is the position of 2 alleles on the stand of DNA) the combination to give you a plain old agouti mouse is A/a or A/A
a is the allele for non-agouti mice, well more specifically, your black mice and their various dilutes.


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## moustress

Agouti is the dominant color; it's what you see almost all the time on wild meeces. The hairs each have three band of colors, and those three colors can be diluted by other recessive genes. When you have the gene for pink eyes the agouti bands are diluted so that it's pale orange to bright orange at the tips, with a base coat that is from lilac to blue. Those dilutions can themselves differ wildly depending on other factors. The show standard is for pale orange tips and pale blue roots. That's argente; one of my favorite colors. All the other ticked coats are dilutions of agouti.

Agouti itself, undiluted, can vary quite a bit; I am always amazed when I empty my composter where I dump my used litter; there are always bits of grain mixed in, and the wild meeces like the warmth, easy access to food, and when I empty it I see mouskers scampering off in all directions. It's amazing to see all the different shades of agouti exist even in wild mousies with no dilution. I suppose it depends on the width and depth of color of the three bands.

The gene I'm mentioning is different than the albino gene which only produces albinos; it's the recessive in the P locus, and if you have two copies (pp) you get pink eyed dilution, just you get albino when you have two copies (cc)of the recessive in that locus.


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## Cordane

Oh thank god for Moustress! I was hoping you would be along to better (insanely better) my.. Uhhh "explanation".


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## lifelongcannibal

Holy crap, how complicated! Haha, you guys must have either gone to college for this stuff or REALLY be interested in it! I just like the different colors :lol:


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## Cordane

lifelongcannibal said:


> Holy crap, how complicated! Haha, you guys must have either gone to college for this stuff or REALLY be interested in it! I just like the different colors :lol:


No college for me, in all honesty I dropped out of high school heh.. Not the point. I suppose its just something you need to learn if you want to breed specific things.


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## moustress

Look, when I started out, I didn't know anything beyond basic college biology and the work of Gregory Mendel. I didn't know about how mouse genes worked, and I didn't even think about looking for stuff online at that time (1997). I had just bought my first computer, and once I discovered mouse forums and websites, I was no longer trying to breed champagne mousies by crossing albino with a black eyed beige :roll: (it seemed to make sense to me at the time).

All I can say is that nothing is obvious to the uninformed. And even to the relatively well informed there are things about color inheritance that are difficult to describe unless you study genetics and the various experiments that created a bunch of the more interesting types of meeces. I have been trying to wrap my 60 year old brain around genetics analysis for awhile, I know a little more about a few things than I did, but there are still things that are not well explained. Temperature, lighting, even exposure to particular substances can affect the appearance of the coat.


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