# help!!! i`ve caught a bug



## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

can anyone give me any advice as to what the best thing is to do please.

i have my breeding set up of feeder breeders, girls in 2`s or 3`s in breeding boxes, and boys rotating between the boxes so mom`s get a rest between litters.
and all was going fine.

i bought some show mice from a local show breeder and now i`m in trouble, ( i`ve asked my vet but he hasnt a clue, he suggested culling. )
the mice are sneezing/squeeking occasionally, their breathing sounds laboured, their eyes occasionally shut but have no discharge, they loose weight and are generally bad dooers.

its spread to my feederbreeder mice now, and i have ones i`m particularly attached too, and some interesting babies i want to keep the breeding lines of.

can anyone point me in the direction of what the best thing is to do please?
any ideas what i may have bought in?
can they be treated? 
or will they all have to be culled and will i have to start again from scratch after disinfecting everything.


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

If it's spread from one mouse to the others it sounds like it could be a respiratory infection. Would your vet be able to give you some antibiotics like baytril for them? It usually works but it can depend on how bad the infection is. Kallan had mentioned something else to me that causes similar issues when I took one of my mice up to be checked out for sneezing and raspy breathing. I think it was a mycoplasm infection :? I'm not 100% sure but that one can remain in their system and cause flare ups later on I'm sure. Hopefully Kallan will be able to give you some other ideas as to what it could be...


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## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

oh dear that dosnt sound good.

isnt myco more of a rat problem? i thought the would have the red tears if it was that.
in rats arnt they permanently carriers of the disease once they`ve caught it? i`ll have to get my book out.

i can have a word with the vet, i`m sure he might let me have some baytril for them if i ask nicely.


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

I wasn't sure if myco was the name of the one that Kallan mentioned to me! I honestly can't remember the name but there is a disease that affects mice (almost like the SDAV in rats) that stays with them. Sendai rings a bell as well. I had written it down but I put the book it's in away safe and it's so safe I can't find it :? I hope your mice are okay (and good luck at the vet!)


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## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

i`ve been doing my homework and it seems its not looking good.

antibiotics will get rid of the clinical signs, but the mice will still be carriers of the disease if its mycoplasma, pseudotuberculosis or sendai.

but if its mouse hepatitis infection it seems they can recover.

is there any way of working out which infection i have? the vet will not really go a bundle on tests, but might be ok for prescribing baytril.

i would like to treat them if i can, but as the babies are destined for feeding eventually i could only treat the breeding adults.


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

I'd ask my vet about this and I don't think tests are possible because of the amount of blood needed to treat them. Thing is, even if the mice end up being carriers they could still be fairly healthy in themselves (it could lie dormant for ages without affecting them) it's just that as they would be carriers you would run the risk of infecting any newcomers to your colony if you were to get new mice. You could always continue to breed with what you have and when they are no longer able to breed perhaps get new mice but keep them somewhere else and ensure scrubbing of your hands and so on as I'm sure that would reduce the risks of them being infected if they weren't living in the same place (e.g. have them in a different room with the door closed.) I'd see how you get on but if you don't have any luck with your vet, try giving kallan on here a PM to see if she can give you anymore help.


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## Kallan (Aug 16, 2009)

The two main respiratory pathogens in mice tend to be Mycoplasma and Sendai virus. there are others but they tend to be secondary, and jump in when one of the two former ones kicks off.

Sendai tends to cause a more acute disease that hits the mice hard, Myco is more chronic. They usually get Myco when young and not show any signs of infection as the body can just about cope. However, when they are stressed, it provides the window the bacterium needs to really take off and that's why you see it after movement, mixing groups, or rehoming.

You won't necessarily see any discharges, but if they're losing condition and are bad doers, I would vote for Myco. Testing isn't that great either - even culturing direct from the lungs of a postmortemed mouse only gives a result 50% of the time.

You can treat it with Baytril but this really only suppresses the signs and won't get rid of the infection. Dust and ammonia aggravate any respiratory condition so that's also something to consider.

To be honest, I think the only way of getting rid of it is to cull and disinfect, but it's quite drastic especially if you have pets - everything that shares or has shared an airspace with the affected animals needs to go to make a clean sweep.


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## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

i had a horrible feeling you`d say that i`d need to cull. my vet said the same, but he wasnt so polite!

dust isnt really an problem, i have the shed ventilated and the mice are kept on aubiose, and they are cleaned out weekly so ammonia isnt an issue either.
the show mice i purchased started the wheezing etc the day after i bought them, so it looks like they were the source of the infection. my petshop mice had been totally trouble free 
so much for me getting some propper mice!

i am attached to the older ones, but i understand they will have to be pts.
i`m gutted.


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## Kallan (Aug 16, 2009)

Leave them a fortnight or so and see if any stop sneezing. It may be a flareup due to stress, and may settle down again. Altho they will still have the Myco, and there is the possibility they could pass it on to any new mice coming in.


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

I used Agrimycin which is generic for another antibiotic for my mouses RI and it worked wonders. I live in a farmtown community so finding a vet that treats mice is almost impossible. Most people here tend to want to get rid of mice, . I found the small package of water soluble powder at the feed store for $9.99. I put 1/4 tsp in 8oz of water, changed the water/medicine everyday for 5 days and the RI is gone. None of my other mice are showing symptoms.


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## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

the show mice who brought it in arrived in may, the infection stopped the adults breeding, and they have just started production again, along with a new round of sneezing and weight loss.
so waiting it out dosnt seem to be working!
i can get antibiotics from my vet ( he`s a farm vet so quite practical ) but if they are just going to stop the secondary infections and symptoms its not really going to be worth it, as everytime they are mated or give birth it`ll just start up again.
and i`ll never have a clean colony, so no mice will be able to be passed on to anyone else.

think i`m going to have to bite the bullet and cull them all, drown all my cages with virkon, wait a few weeks and start again.

i`m gutted. its taken me ages to get my blues, varigated, brokens and weird curly things how i like them.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

That's some very useful info, beth. Thanks so much!

sarahsnake, I have been following this thread, and I just want you to know that I'm rooting for you and your meeces. Shared trouble and all that...good luck whatever happens. *hug*


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## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

thanks for all your help and kind words


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Ghodz; I can just imagine...jeez...I guess I didn't read your previous carefully enough...I'm just about beyond words; so sorry, hun.


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm really sorry that she didn't pull through  You did everything you could


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## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

i havnt done the deed yet, am working myself up to it, i have 15 boxes of mice to be pts and a lot of the does are pregnant or have litters.

will be a lot more careful where i get stock from in the future, its a painful lesson learnt.
i was so pleased to finally get some show mice i shant be so trusting in future.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> will be a lot more careful where i get stock from in the future, its a painful lesson learnt.


It's no-one's fault and it doesn't mean that their breeder is a bad breeder. I have had mice from some of the best breeders in the country and more often than not, they've died after a few weeks. This situation is quite common amongst show mice and is referred to as 'New Shed Syndrome'. Mice that live in closed groups (such as a single breeder's shed) will build up immunity to things in the surrounding environment and the mice they live with. Stock can stay healthy for years and years in that one shed, but move them out to another breeder's shed and they'll most likely get sick because, firstly, they don't have immunity to the environment and mice in the new shed and, secondly, the move will have stressed them out and made them more susceptible to illness. It's rare that they recover.

Sarah xxx


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## sarahsnake (Oct 28, 2009)

they were kept seperatly in my spare room away from my others who are in a shed, and they starting sneezing the evening i got them.
it stopped after a week, they put the weight back on they`d lost and i thought it was just the stress of moving them, that they were over it, and stupidly put them in my shed, then all my others started and have never recovered.

i`ve bred mice off and on for many years and have never come across this before which is why i asked for help and advice.
i will just be heartless in future and just cull as soon as theres a problem, and not buy from anyone who dosnt show me thier shed.


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