# Where did they come from?!



## RavennaHallowed

So I bought 4 pet shop meecers 2 weeks, 1 day ago. When I bought them, the pet shop told me the does MAY very well be pregnant as one of the adult does had given birth not long after she'd arrived from the breeder. (They showed us the mum and babies, which were kept in a separate cage out the back). So I was prepared for more babies. After a few days of having the girls, it became very apparent that one of the 2 does was incredibly pregnant, so It's just been a waiting game. Well, Checked on them yesterday afternoon to find that pudding had given birth to 14 Live babies, and 1 dead one, which obviously I removed. I was NOT expecting such a HUGE litter :/ She's a big girl, but I'm VERY worried she won't cope with them all...All 14 babies had good milk bellies and were lively. Now the waiting game continues to see if the other little girl is also pregnant. (Should know within a week). Pics this afternoon!!


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## Fantasia Mousery

If you're worried about the huge litter (I would be), then you can cull some of the babies. It will certainly help mom, and lesser babies will equal healthier and stronger babies.
Congrats on the litter.


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## RavennaHallowed

My camera died just as I went to take pics today, so will have to get batteries tomorrow and get some pics. They are all still very healthy. I thought she would have self culled, but she seems to be handling them ok. I did seriously consider culling the litter down, but wasn't sure what the best way to do that would be. I usually pick my keepers at 3wks, and the rest go in the feeder bin. (Dad has a carpet snake). I can't wait to see what this litter contains! I can usually tell before birth what they will be, because I know both parents(Very selective), but this litter I only know what mum is, and have no idea what she carries or who dad is...I've also got another litter running at the moment! Currently 12 days old. Mum is a poor black and tan(almost a fox) and dad is a poor self black. Litter has 9 pups, 1 beige fox, 1 self beige, 2-3 blacks and the rest black and tans.


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## PPVallhunds

Good luck with the litter.

Mum's normally self cull when they have no choice. If you need culling advice your best to ask to join the culling forum or message a member as techniques can't be discusses on the public part of the forum.


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## RavennaHallowed

Thanks PPVallhunds!


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## GibblyGiblets

I would seriously consider culling down some with that many as it most likely that you have several bucks, and not so many does (pretty much the way it almost always works :lol: )

mice only have 10 nipples, so that means that at some point at least 4 of them won't be getting enough to eat, because as the ones who are pushing their weight around, so to speak the weaker ones will get pushed away.


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## NikiP

Unless you are me :x I seem to be blessed with higher number of girls. Which is great until you are trying to keep a buck


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## PPVallhunds

Lol nip send that sex ratio over to my mice, I had a total of 25 with the last litters and only 6 females!

Bucks apparently drink more milk than females


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## Trixie's Mice

95% of my litters have more does than bucks. My last litter was 2 bucks 6 does. I always seem so work out that way for me, I'm glad. Sorry, not to brag, lol.


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## Cordane

My last litter was a litter of 13 - 10 girls!
Sorry, had to chime in


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## GibblyGiblets

I must be unlucky then :lol: not only that, but it usually turns out for me that the bucks are prettier!

this time round though, my litters were pretty even.


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## RavennaHallowed

Whats the best way to sex the 2 day olds? I don't want any more bucks. I just don't have the space to keep them seperatly. I usually wait until they are old enough to see nipples, and have never really tried with anything under 2 weeks old.All you people with your girls!!! I'm pretty much certain that 7 or 8 out of the 9 from my last litter are bucks... Infact,I can only see ONE definite girl out of that litter -_-


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## PPVallhunds

to sex you look at the gap between the genatals and the anus. bigger gap for bucks smaller gap for does.

I sex at day 1 then double check at day 7 with nipples. It can take a bit of pratice and I still get ones im not sure of, but when I was starting I found it helpful to get some pots and hile sexing put def bucks in one pot, def does in another pot then compare the unknowns again to the bucks and does. I also find it easyer to have them flay on my hand belly down and list the tail up.

hers a comparison pic I too of two frozen pinkies to show the gap, obvious difference there but you do get some that seem less obvious.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa23 ... up2-15.jpg


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## RavennaHallowed

Wow yeah! I can see the difference there. I'll have to try and sex them tomorrow. One of the little ones has gone missing, so down to 13 today, but i'm not surprised. The pot idea is a REALLY good idea! Pudding seems fine with me playing with her babies. Fudge(the nanny/2nd doe whom I'm waiting to see if shes pregnant) is more protective of the pups and will often hover over them when I go to pick them up. I think I'll even use the pot idea for my 13 day olds.


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## pauly

Thanks for that J, just been out to a litter & as you say , some are obvious, some are pretty borderline. Still have to use a magnifying glass & have my glasses on though !!


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## PPVallhunds

Lol paul, don't worrie I just found a buck in my young doe box.


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## pauly

Love it !!
Two questions : How long was he in there & how many does was he with ?? :lol:


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## RavennaHallowed

My other half took some pics of all the meecers this afternoon with my camera! So I can finally share. We didn't really sex the newest litter, I tried but couldn't tell! They ALL looked the same... I DID discover that probably half the litter are pink eyed though!








The 3 day old litter. (Pudding x Unknown. Bought pregnant from the pet store.) Pudding- Black Pied.
We also got some really great pics of the older litter, who are 14 days old today and have just opened their eyes! My other half has fallen in love with the ONLY doe in the entire litter, and insists he has to keep her. Lucky she's a pretty little thing. Now I just have to pick a buck from this litter to keep. :/ I re-counted today(we did individual photos of all the older babies) and found... I have 10 babies in this litter, not 9! How did I miss that for 2 weeks!? 9 bucks, 1 doe. *grumble*








The 14 day old litter (Kidd x Lucky(dec)) Kidd-Poor black and tan. Lucky(Dec) -Poor self black








Bubble. The only doe out of this litter.


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## Trixie's Mice

She is really pretty, I'm glad you are keeping her. That's too bad that they are all bucks... good luck!


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## RavennaHallowed

I'm annoyed that the little champagne/Lilac fox is a boy. I thought he was Beige, but he's got pink eyes! I was hoping and praying that he'd magically grow girl parts, but I'm 99% sure he's a boy...The PE was a shock to me, because both parents have black eyes, and I'm pretty Kidds dam had black eyes. (Lucky, the father of this litter, is also Kidds father, so he's father and grandfather to this litter) and I'm pretty sure Luckys parents were both dark eyed, though his mother was siamese.


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## PPVallhunds

pauly said:


> Love it !!
> Two questions : How long was he in there & how many does was he with ?? :lol:


there about 12 weeks, was about 9 in there still got at least one missing in the shed since the break out lol



RavennaHallowed said:


> My other half took some pics of all the meecers this afternoon with my camera! So I can finally share. We didn't really sex the newest litter, I tried but couldn't tell! They ALL looked the same... I DID discover that probably half the litter are pink eyed though!.


don't worrie youll get the hang of sexing the more you try.



RavennaHallowed said:


> I'm annoyed that the little champagne/Lilac fox is a boy. I thought he was Beige, but he's got pink eyes! I was hoping and praying that he'd magically grow girl parts, but I'm 99% sure he's a boy...The PE was a shock to me, because both parents have black eyes, and I'm pretty Kidds dam had black eyes. (Lucky, the father of this litter, is also Kidds father, so he's father and grandfather to this litter) and I'm pretty sure Luckys parents were both dark eyed, though his mother was siamese.


depends on what is causing the pink eyes, pinkeye gene is recessive so the parents can carry it, it could be the Siamese gene. ch/ch and ch/c has red eyes but they will both develop points so if he doesn't get any points its pink eye gene


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## RavennaHallowed

Thats very interesting to know PPVallhunds. I wonder if it will continue to pop up.. I'm only keeping the doe and one of the Black tan/fox bucks from the older litter, and a few of the girls from the other litter(IF there end up being girls, whats the bet all the coloured ones I want to keep end up boys)


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## PPVallhunds

that's allways the way, If you want does of a colour you get bucks of that colour and vice versa.

It proberly will as you wont know if any of the black eyes carry pink eye but you can try to breed it out if you want with test breeding.


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## RavennaHallowed

I'm not worried if it keeps popping up. I actually find it rather pretty, but Im a sucker for pink eyes. I'm more worried about breeding out tailless.(Which is an unfortunate gene carried by both parents of the older litter. There is 1 tailless in that litter).


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## NikiP

I am not a fan of PE at all.

Thought the PE dove baby in one of my litters was a little devil mouse. Don't know why, but his eyes freaked me out more then my PEW do.

Darn thing just kept getting cuter & being so sweet :x He just had me marked for a sucker.


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## RavennaHallowed

Really NikiP? I don't like PEW's, but Doves and the like I find absoloutly ADORABLE! I've got a dove pied buck and doe now, who will be bred together in a month or two. Trying to get all the girls ready to go at the same time so I'll be able to foster... Yours(if its the one I'm thinking of!) Is absoloutly adorable!


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## RavennaHallowed

Well, We started with 15 pups... we are now down to 12. No Idea what happened to number 13, but overnight, it has gone missing. They are 7 days old today and are weighing in at an average of 6g, some up to 7g, one or two as low as 4g. Sexed them today, and what would you know, ALL my pretty Black eyed, pieds, except one, are BOYS....-_- 6 Out of 12 are bucks, 4 are does, and the other two are in between...Hrm :/


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## Trixie's Mice

What a bummer... I hope the two that don't know what they are become does!


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## PPVallhunds

don't forget to take more pics when they start to fur up.
The ones that are 4g are they looking skinny or bony? if so you may want to put them out of there misery if they are failing to thrive. One of my letters at work was a big disappointment, 2 had an eye problem so had to go, 3 was left and one was a skinny runt so left with 2 and one of course was a buck.


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## RavennaHallowed

The 4g's are just small, Still nice and plump, and almost the same length as their siblings, just lighter. I was going to take pics yesterday, but camera died. It chew battery like nothing else and I only had cheap non rechargables in it... I've fixed this lol, so should be able to get more pics today. It seems ever 2 or 3 days we lose a baby. If they cull anymore, I just hope it's one of the uglier coloured bucks lol! (I think I've got mostly PEW's in this litter -_-) Oh that sucks!! Better luck next time hopefully.

(Edited to add) Oh! Babies are roughly 5cms in body length and 3-4cms in tail length roughly. (Well, they were yesterday.)
Edited AGAIN: We've totally removed the mother and nanny from this litter. We are down to 10 babies now. I'd USUALLY just leave them be and let nature take it's course BUT my other half has become overly attached to these babies :/ He was going to hand raise, but I've taken my wet doe and she is now fostering all 10 babies, so fingers crossed she continues and doesn't continue what Pudding started... :x


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## RavennaHallowed

10 days old today and aren't they just adorable!? I just did a quick check on these guys while their foster mummy ate some treats, and to my pleasant surprise, not only are all 10 still alive and healthy, at LEAST half of them are DOES, INCLUDING some I sexed as bucks at a younger age! VERY pleased. 

















Foster Mum looking in before realizing I'd put treats down. I love this Girl! She may not be the prettiest little thing, but she makes an amazing mum.


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## Fantasia Mousery

They are very, very cute indeed!


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## Trixie's Mice

They are growing up so much! They are adorable!


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## RavennaHallowed

Sexed them today! 7 does, and 3 Bucks! Happy with those odds! I've picked 2 does to keep. One of the black Pieds(Named Lollipop, to go with the food theme I've got happening with the pieds) and an almost solid Dove and White pied Doe, Who I haven't named yet. Also seperated Bubble(Black Tan Doe) So she's not in with her 9 brothers. Shes with my newest edition, Gingerbread(Fawn Doe). Rather happy this morning!!!


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## RavennaHallowed

More pictures of the 14 day olds today. Some of them have started opening their eyestoday. Their foster mother has split the bubs into 2 nests, I assume to help her cope. We've Named the two keepers Pop and Champers. Both little Does. 
















Champers is the Dove/champagne doe in the front. Pop is the black/blueish doe behind.


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## Trixie's Mice

They are so cute at 14 days!


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