# Topical antihistamine for mice?



## racingmouse

I was doing some research this afternoon and came across some articles that suggested topical ointments that were `methylated` so cool an irritating itch instantly. This got me wondering if there were any veterinary (or over the counter for that matter) preperations that might be of use for mice with compulsive itching? I initially looked up Calamine lotion and stumbled into some other links that mentioned topical treatments containing diphenhydramine. I know nothing about these ingredients personally, but though I would mention this incase it`s something we could look into?

I know many of these topical treatments should`nt be used near the eyes for example and open cuts and wounds might pose a problem aswell, although I`m not sure. Oral antihistamines can cause drowsiness and other side effects and mice are laboratory creatures and I did read one link that mentioned side effects on some lab animals for one particular pediatric cream and the word LETHAL did show up next to mice, so caution is obviously needed when looking at these treatments.

Mites are normally the culprit for mice becoming compulsive scratchers, but if they are treated for mites and still continue to scratch obsessively and injure themselves, surely there has to be a safe, topical treatment out there used for children that could be diluted or used neatly on mice?

The problem with some over the counter preparations is that they sometimes contain chemicals that can make matters worse rather than help, which is why we need to tread with care, but maybe start a thread on finding that elusive `skin itch` cure?


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## Kallan

racingmouse said:


> This got me wondering if there were any veterinary preperations that might be of use for mice with compulsive itching?


None licensed. Fuciderm or Surolan may help - they have steroids in them - but any cream you put on usually triggers the itching more. Compulsive itching would likely be better treated by drugs for compulsive disorders, of which there is even less literature than the usual treatments! :lol:


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## racingmouse

Thanks for replying kallan. I`ve had Fucidern ointment before. My Rosie seems what appears to be a moist eczema down one side of her face and it looks very red a raw. I only ever gently wipe it with warm water and a cotton ball as it does seem to weap sometimes and she scratches it aswell and makes it bleed. :roll:

The skin on her back is much better than it was and she never scratches there now. The main itching points seem to be her face and below her ears now. I used that Beaphar spot-on a while back and to be honest, I feel it made matters worse. I can`t be sure whether she took a reaction to it, or whether she just kept scratching due to the irritation.

I`m at a loss really because if I speak to my own vet, I know they will probably just give me Fuciderm or similar or treat her again for mites, which I`m pretty sure have long gone if she did have a flare up due to the spot-on I used. She copes well enough, but it does make her aggitated and restless sometimes.

Rosie is 19 months old now and I know she won`t go on too much longer, but I would love to find something that might ease her frustration. She`s a lively wee thing otherwise and it`s a shame to see her bein aggited by this all the time.


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## Cait

I have (mild) eczema myself on my hands and to be honest the best thing for it is just to make sure you keep moisturising it so it doesn't crack and get sore/bleed etc. However mine is not 'wet' like you have described on your mouse so it sounds like you need to find something to dry it up.


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## racingmouse

Thanks Cait. I`ve discribed it a `moist` because it does look moist at times and red as if she`s scratched off the outer skin layer and her skin is very red and thin on that side of her face. I`m loathed to apply anything to it to be honest incase I just make her scratch at it more, especially as it covers her eye area too. This is why I`ve only used warm water to keep the area clean so far. It`s frustrating because she`s an active old lady and if it was`nt for this predicament, she would be going about her normal mousie duties without stopping every few steps to scratch. I know it`s bugging her poor lass. Some days she seems better and then it flares again and one side of her face bleeds and her eye socket fills with blood. Once I get her out and clean it up, it stops bleeding and I can see her eye again, which is`nt affected.

It`s more frustrating than anything else.


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## Seawatch Stud

I agree with Cait. I suffer with chronic psoriasis (as in the singing detective). In fact I've been hospitalised on three seperate occasions by it. My treatments are varied according to whether its "dry" or "wet" ( I get both types). I would strongly suggest you do not apply creams to any skin condition that is not "dry". If you do this will cause the skin to become very soft and far more damamge will be done by the scratching.


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## racingmouse

Thanks Seawatch. I`m wary of using anything without good cause and because I`ve had mice in the past with similar skin itching and related scabbing/cuts, Rosie`s cheek/side of face looks as if she`s wearing a Phantom of the opera mask! One side is normal, the other side is just bare, raw skin. When she leaves it alone it tends to stay stable and looks paler, but when it itches, she irritates it by scratching too much and this is when it starts weeping and bleeding.

I`m happy to continue just keeping her face clean and make sure she`s okay. There does`nt seen to be much I can do either through my vet or from over the counter because I fear dabbing anthing on it. I look at it and ask myself, "If it was my face, what would I do?"....but then I would probably be prescribed something from my GP, so that does`nt help really. :roll:


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## geordiesmice

Yes I agree with seawatchstud I too have a skin condition on My fingers which cause them all too split I apply cream to them .On A mouse and Gerbil I applied a saline soloution in the sealed bottles to skin conditions and thats all and they have cleared up.I have alot of E45 used for dy skin conditions, and wondered if that would be good for mices skin its excellent on Humans it contains Glyceril Monosterate Citric Acid Monohydrate.


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## racingmouse

Thanks geordie. E45 is a well known cream but because I don`t know how Rosie`s skin would react to a cream or a powder, I would be risking making things worse. In the past when I`ve had mice with little scabs or raw skin/hair loss, I`ve applied things like organic aloe vera gel, colloidal silver, tea tree small animal cream and I even dabbed on some steroid cream I use for itchy skin (varicose eczema) spots that flare up sometimes on my inner calf and nothing seemed to prevent the itching and I know steroids can be dangerous so I would`nt use them unless under a vets instruction.

It`s very sad that nothing seems to be available anywhere to relieve mice from this apart from trying oral antihistamine tablets (non-drowsy) but this can be tricky choosing the correct tablets. I would`nt feel confident using them without my vet giving me the go ahead incase I overdosed the poor thing! She lives with another mouse anyway so puting anything in the drinking water would do no good. Even if I crushed up a tablet and dosed it in food, I would still worry about side effects. One of the vets I saw a while ago said it would be okay to try anti-histamine but she sort of said it meaning, `well, you`ve got nothing to lose`....! So I don`t know whether she was saying yes, it`s a good idea, or saying yes, try it but was`nt sure if it would work.

You get to the stage where you want to start looking at human preperations, but hesitate to use them for fear of a disaster. I could`nt live with myself if I made her worse, so unless I can find something I know won`t sting, burn or be detrimental if ingested, I guess it will just be the cotton wool and warm water.


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## geordiesmice

I have some Betnovate cream I use on my fingers its a steroid very strong I wouldnt dare use that or anything like it on my mice without advice.Touch wood my mice dont seem to suffer much at all and when they do its something big like a tumour when there old andI loose them.


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## racingmouse

The funny thing is geordie, I never expose my mice to any hay, or straw toys or overcrowd my cage or even handle them much, yet this persistant itching just seems to crop up from time to time and it always seems to affect white mice. I can`t recall ever having a coloured variety have these issues, only three white mice. Chalky (male) Lulu (show female) and now Rosie (pet shop type). I did have another white female that took a small scab on her upper back, just to her side and that small scab turned into a horrible mass that looked like a burst abscess, but it was hard and resembled a tumour that had ulcerated. 

I hope I never see this again, but history tells me that mice, although very clean little animals, scratch all the time and if they become compromised for any reason, this seems to trigger this off. Even if they come down with a sneeze/respiratory issue, they can be dragged down by it. Rosie is such a strong willed little female that all this condition is doing is preventing her from enjoying her old age and that`s sad.


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## racingmouse

Wish I could get my hands on some of this (if the link is not allowed, please feel free to remove it)

http://www.prweb.com/releases/itch/gene ... 352264.htm

I have a friend in the states who suffers from rosacea so she may well be interested in this! The article mentiones the recently discovered `itch gene` in mice that is triggered by a receptor which scientists now know causes this itch transmitter to spring into action. I wonder if there is anything similar sold over here? This company seem to be US based (take note members in the US!) Could be worth looking into or discussing with your own vets if you ever have a case of this in your mice.

The active ingredient seems to be something called capsaicin aswell as caffeine. Maybe a cold herbal tea bag would do the same! :lol:

Interesting reading all the same...


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## zany_toon

racingmouse said:


> The active ingredient seems to be something called capsaicin aswell as caffeine.


Capsaicin's are the active ingredients in peppers that make them so hot RM  It basically means that the spray has simlar ingredients to pepper spray. At the moment in the UK the closest thing is a capsaicin spray for clearing nasal issues but the caffeine must counteract the heat of the capsaicin in some way as otherwise it would, or I would think so, be very hot and painful to apply. Certainly with capsaicin creams (available in the UK) they recommend not to apply to broken, inflammed, weeping or ulcerated skin for that very reason. If you are looking at that route, have you investigated other natural alternative therapies? I know I struggled keeping weeping ezcema at bay but found that some of the alternative therapies helped (they didn't help during an outbreak though! And i would think that weeping ezcema is the closest thing to what Rosie has from what you have said and from the little I have seen of her.)


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## Kallan

Weeping eczema in dogs is treated with systemic antibiotics and steroids, and cleaning of the affected area with hibiscrub.

In animals with multi-resistant bugs, salt solution has worked very well - make it up fresh and wash the affected area 2-3 times daily.


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## geordiesmice

Racingmouse I thought my mice had ringworm it ended up they were moulting poor things got doused in athletes foot powder for a few days lol its all learning the marks on the siamese were moulting marks, but this itching thing ive seen my mice have an odd scratch but nothing serious.Mine dont have hay its just because I dont like the look of what was for sale it looked old in the bags but its very good for them and been used for 100s of years.Im not saying that my mice are perfectly healthy but they look fine too me but im not always looking for things wrong with them , something serious id be the first to act.If there was something wrong I would ask the fanciers on here and what remedy they would recomend then I would go to a vet. My vet is an avian specialist but he does small animals too.


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## racingmouse

I definately won`t be trying anything like the above pepper treatments! Just thought it was an interesting article really as it seems to say` fight fire with fire`, but with mice, that`s not something I would want to risk.

kallan, I`m just going to keep up the plain water routine and maybe saline now and then. It seems the safest solution although it won`t rid her of the itch sadly. She`s an old lady now and even when I have her out to clean her face when it`s required, her breathing gets abdominal because she has had respiratory problems in the past, so her little lungs are probably scarred. Otherwise, she`s dandy.

geordie, I will definately remember the athletes foot powder trick if I ever see ringworm again! Hopefully not. Just wish I knew this when Lulu had it. Would have saved me (and her) a lot of stress.


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