# Yellow tri pairings and litters



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

These two are Rosegold, a marked (carries tri) satin red doe and Royal, marked tri satin fawn buck. She's due in about three days. They are about 3 1/2 months old, and this is the first litter for each of them.


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## tinyfish (Apr 19, 2009)

wow their colours are so rich!

I don't know much about genetics - what are you expecting in the litter?


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## violet1991 (Oct 3, 2008)

colours are wonderful...wish we had something like that here, gorgeous!!

Vi x


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thank you all very much. I worked hard getting the A^vy line clear of brindling for the buck, Royal.I was thrilled to see I could get tri markings even with the beautiful red eyes. I just love the red-eyed dilutes. Rosegold is a recessive yellow ee, and that gene gives a slightly different color of red/yellow; it's got a touch of pink, especially when in satin. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out on a tri.

First the babies, then waiting for them to get fur, and then waiting, waiting, waiting for them to get big enough to see the colors of the markings. I don;t know about you others, but it keeps me awake at night sometimes, thinking about what pairings I'm going to make, and wondering when it will all come to fruition. Or not; I lost a litter of yellow tris to a first time doe who just couldn't resist the yummy little piggie sausages. But I have about five pairings set up, so I know I'll have some nice furry little kittens in the next month or so!


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## tinyfish (Apr 19, 2009)

Such a shame you lost one litter!!

Good luck with the others, and can't wait for more pics when they are bigger!!!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Rosegold should have them now. She is starting to look painfully huge, and with the solid color on her back in satin, you can see the lumps move. the doe in the other pair I posted about, Lux, the cream tri looks even more painfully huge. I don't know how they stand it cuz I can barely stand it.

Thanks for the sympathy re the lost litter. First time mousie moms are the most likely to do this; if she does it to a second litter she'll be taken out of the breeding program. This sort of thing isn't nearly as shocking to me as the first few times ten years ago, but it's always a bit demoralizing.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Lux had her litter last night; six babies, good sized, good color, and nice full milk bellies. She had them all neatly lined up like she was expecting my inspection. Pictures to follow soon.


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## tinyfish (Apr 19, 2009)

great news!! can't wait for pics! (and fur!)


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Here they are; these are some of the most wiggly babies I've ever seen! At two days old I can just barely make out the shadows of markings in the skin. I like to blow of pix of tiny meeces to see things better; I'm always impatient to know what I've got.


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## tinyfish (Apr 19, 2009)

soo sweet! and with black eyes! all my colours have pink eyes, so I never realised how early on the eyes are visible in black eyed varieties! can't wait for fur now!!!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Rosegold threw her litter! She and Royal were both curled up all snug in the nest with them. I lured them out with a treat so I could count the tiny darlings there are eight very nicely developed wigglers with good skin color (not too red- a sign of prematurity) with full milk bellies. I didn't look too extensively, first time moms can be unpredictable, so I don't know about eh eye colors yet. I'm pretty sure Rosegold doesn't carry red eyes, but I will be thrilled if a couple of them are red-eyed.

I also took note of Diamond Stud, a PEW caracul satin buck, has done his work, and April, his standard chinchilla tri mate, is showing. Diamond is over two years old, and is a direct descendant of Pudge, the satin buck I got out of a feeder bin that was the founder of my current satin lines. He wasn't much to look at, but he had all the qualities I want in a stud: good health, sweet disposition, decent size, clean ears and nice eyes. Also, as far as his disposition goes, he never fought with his boys, and I was able to put him back in the tank with his boys after he was bred, on two or three occassions.

I know some of you may not believe that males can be kept together in the same tank, but I have worked very hard to only breed bucks that lack that sort of aggression. Some of it probably just conditioning, i.e.the boys are housed with their father and learn to live without fighting and grow up to be like their dad, behaviorally at least. Pudge's male offspring are also very good fathers and mates in that they do not rough up the doe and try to mount when she's not ready, and they assist in caring for the babies. Part of my fascination with meeces is this kind of behavior, and I love to see mousie families getting along like Royal and Rosegold are with their babies. Rosegold may have a second litter in three weeks, but I've noted that my satin does often don't get pregnant until weeks after their first litter is born. My breeding does get extra dietary support, and two litters back to back is the limit. the buck is removed when she begins to show for the second batch.

I would caution folks to be careful trying to do as I have done; it takes years and a lot of extra attention to be able to affect these behaviors in the way I have done with my satins.


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## tinyfish (Apr 19, 2009)

congratulations!! You must be so excited!! Mummy of 6+8!

pics pics pics (when they are big enough  )


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

moustress said:


> I know some of you may not believe that males can be kept together in the same tank, but I have worked very hard to only breed bucks that lack that sort of aggression.


I would be inclined to try for the opposite in breeding bucks as I think the nice guys over a period of time turn into the lines that don't breed so easily,
Very attractive mice you are producing,I have mouse envy.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Black eyes were all I was expecting. the only tri lines that carry red eyes are the yellow tris. Speaking of which, Royal and Rosegold's babies are looking good, and better yet, three of them have red eyes.

Sarah, I don't think that is the case. In the lines that I've been doing the most breeding, like the yellow tris, I've had no problem whatsoever. And My Diamond Stud, the PEW that has a litter in the works of one of my young tri does, comes from a line that has always bred well, and yet the boys been friendly to one another after maturity, as well as being good fathers, and also still friendly when placed back with their brother/sons after being put out for stud.

Like I said before, it may be a conditioned response, where the boys are kept with the parents through the birth of the next litter, and they therefore find themselves with a different experience that conditions them to accept their father and brothers as cagemates later in life. While I do breed for colors and markings, I am equally interested in mousie behavior, and have found myself doing a fair amount of social engineering, which relies on providing experiences in which the animal is raised in different ways, expeosed to their fellow mice in different contexts, and therefore show different behavior later in life.

And it's true that I have done an awful lot of reading in the natural sciences and social sciences especially (I do keep up on other areas in the sciences as well), having been a science nerd since the age of 8 (I'm now 57). I don't expect any other breeders to necessarily change the way they do things based on my experiences, but I do claim the validity of my ideas based on my state of knowledge. It works for me! ( I do enjoy writing, too, as you probably figured out by now.)


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm always interested in other peoples theories and tinkering with what I do based on them.Thanks for your considered reply.I hadn't pictured you as a fifty something nerd


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Hey, Sarah, I have a hard time believing I'm 50+ myself, pushing 60...unbelievable.

Anywho, here's some new pictures of a group of young bucks. They are about six weeks old, and they are off of Golden Boy, my first and best stud of all the marked yellow tri meeces, and Argyle, a fiery red-eyed marked brindled doe. BTW, I had just figured out for myself, looking at her, what happens when you produce a red eyed brindle, when I read the same online somewhere....the stripes become argente!)

At least two of these youngsters show nice markings in different shades of fawn/yellow/cream. The colors on this typoe of mousie seem to darken as they age.

Waiting for the photo host...what's the preferred format for pix in this Forum? I've usually put up thumbnails, but I've had complaints about all the ads on the hosts page. Hokay, here we go...thumbnails...



(wouldn't it be nice it meeces always lined up and posed like this all the time?)















This is what it usually looks like when I try to get a nice picture; a mad scramble! Then they figure out that the bright light isn't going to get them, and The Hand is the same Hand That Feeds Them.


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## julieszoo (May 27, 2009)

Stunning mice! Those markings are so very pretty


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the pix.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Here's the first pix of Rosegold's and Royal's litter. It gives a hint of what might be in a few weeks. a few of them have very promising marking patterns, and I can see two different tones on a couple of the little darlings already. They are six days old now.







Argyle had a litter two days ago off of Golden Boy; nice big babies!

I think my next round of pairings will include stand coats; I've used all satins thus far because of the deepening of colors that makes it easier to see with the lighter tones of yellow. Now that I've got some good contrast on a few babies, I can go back to mixed standard and satin litters. Because of the nature of the satin lines we have here in the US, I want to avoid those nasty recessives that can so seriously affect the health of the meeces.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Rosegold's and Royal's babies are fully furred, showing a wide variety of shades. They are nine days old now.









I had a busy weekend in the mousery as two litters of satin red-eyed dilutes were born for a total of twenty little eekers. Most of them will be fawn, with a smattering of champagne and argent, possibly a silver or two as well. There's also two litters of tris with three and four babies respectively.


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## x.novabelle.x (Oct 15, 2009)

Awww, fur! They look adorable and very healthy, a very strong litter. And what wonderful variety!

Your theory on breeding the less aggressive males is very interesting, and shows just how different the personalities of animals (and breeding habits!) can be  It does sound like hard work to get them 'conditioned' not to cause a ruckus, but I'll bet it's worth it when housing them.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Here are updated pix of Golden Boy's and Argyle's boys. A couple of them are beginning to show nice tri markings, and one of them has odd eyes.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh so COOL!! You are gonna keep the odd eyed one right??

Willow xx


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Oh, yeah. I rarely cull males unless they are very unruly. I know that it's common to cull males that are not needed for breeding or who are not show worthy. I don't show my mice, so that's not a concern. Most of my boys will never be bred, but I enjoy having a lot of meeces. the one with the odd eyes also has some good tri markings, so he may get bred in the future.

On occasion a buck may be bred for the first time when he's quite old, just because I really like his personality and because he's had good health and longevity, along with being a color and type in line with what I'm doing anyway. Keeping most of my mice gives me the ability to track the general health and longevity of lines I'm breeding over the long term.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Golden Boy, yellow tri stud muffin extraordinaire, has sired another litter off of Popeye, a yellow splashed tri doe. They have six noisy little wigglers, and G.B. was found to have taken one of the babies to his own nest a couple of inches away from the rest of the crew. He's a real stitch; he gets up and stands over the nest when I open the cage top. Popeye is so named because when her eyes opened, one of them closed and never reopened. Other than that she's a lovely young doe. Pictures tomorrow.


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## Peteyandthegang (Jan 20, 2009)

That odd eyed mouse is so special. I want one :love1


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## julieszoo (May 27, 2009)

Is the presence of odd eyes in mice linked to blazes/white spotting genes at all out of interest?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I might think twice about breeding the odd eyed one because sometimes the syndrome can be a visible symptom of other neurological problems. I guess I'll just wait and see if I need him in future pairings. And as far as odd eyed-ness being linked to marking patterns, I don't know, so thank you for asking, cuz now I gotta find out!

All mousies are special to me; I have a hard time with being so soft-hearted. It's one reason why I have so many of 'em. It's the boys who most frequently get culled, but only after they've had a chance to win me over. I am very quick to put down a mousie who is obviously in bad shape, I don't like to see them suffering. It's hard to tell most of the time if they are in pain. Meeces are very stoic and often show little sign of distress, but it's a balancing act, that's for sure. I'm not sure if I should be discussing this in the open part of this Forum....I don't mean to upset anybody. :?:


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