# Ginger and Mr. Puffs Babies



## TwitchingWhiskers

Ginger Bread had her babies, and my Mr. Puffs is the proud daddy! Born on 3/17/2013 around this time, so they are about one day old now. Originally she had 11, and I culled to 6, because they were actually pretty chubby when there were 11, so I didn't need to heavy of a cull. Hoping I got the sexing right, I should have 3 bucks and 3 does. So far they seem to be chubby enough for my approval, and all have milk bellies. The mother and nanny both seem to be very attentive, everything is going smooth from what I can tell at this point. I'm very exited to watch them fur up, and see what I got color wise. The purpose of this pairing is to get my recessive yellow line started with a few RY's for future breeding. Dam is recessive yellow, e/e and the sire is E/e; I should also get blue from this pairing as well, as both are D/d. I might also have some argente and agouti, because dad is A/* p/p. I'm hoping I magically culled all the pied, as the parents are both S/s, but we will have to see. With genetics speaking aside, I thought I would share my new arrivals with you. 

TWM's Ginger Bread, mommy. Picture taken a few days before delivery, she got pretty big, but sadly I didn't take pictures on the last day. She went from 56g on the last day of pregnancy to 39g after birth yesterday.









TWM's Kira, nanny. Something about this doe and cameras.... just.... doesn't work out. I will continue to try and get pictures that do her justice, and when I do I will share them. This one is pretty cute, actually. :lol: 









The babies on their birthday, yesterday.









The babies today.









If I can remember, and find the time, I will try to do regular updates.


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## WoodWitch

Looking forward to watching their progress


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## fancyteddy1

aw, such big bellies full of milk! Great pics, I love the one of the nanny  
Please do remember to post pics as they get a little older, I'd love to see how they colour up!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Thanks for the nice comments, you two!



fancyteddy1 said:


> aw, such big bellies full of milk! Great pics, I love the one of the nanny
> Please do remember to post pics as they get a little older, I'd love to see how they colour up!


I swear, that's the only decent picture I was able to get of her; I need to get out the light box and wine glass to do some real photo shooting. :lol:


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## ThatCertainGlow

Thank you for the explanation about what they carry, and what your goal is! Makes it so much more interesting to see how this progresses. At least to me. LOL
Lovely, clear pictures. How cute to include the nanny.  Good luck at magically removing the s/s babies. Hate that you can't tell such things as early as it would be best to know. Hope you remember to at least take the pictures, even if some time passes before updating the thread.


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## angelofwhimsy

Mum is really lovely but I think I may have just fallen in love with your nanny  Can't wait to find out if you got what you were after! Looking forward to updates!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

ThatCertainGlow said:


> Thank you for the explanation about what they carry, and what your goal is! Makes it so much more interesting to see how this progresses. At least to me. LOL
> Lovely, clear pictures. How cute to include the nanny.  Good luck at magically removing the s/s babies. Hate that you can't tell such things as early as it would be best to know. Hope you remember to at least take the pictures, even if some time passes before updating the thread.


Your welcome.  I certainly think it's more interesting to read about other breeders goals, as well, it makes it easier to know when to congratulate them.

Nannies make me nervous sometimes, I'm always afraid they will eat the babies or something terrible, but so far Kira has been very good to them and always keeps them warm. Even if I get pied e/e, I will probably still keep them and then work on breeding it out of the line; I actually started the line with pied RY's, but then decided I much preferred self. The next thing with this line would be improving color, they will need to be much less sooty.



angelofwhimsy said:


> Mum is really lovely but I think I may have just fallen in love with your nanny  Can't wait to find out if you got what you were after! Looking forward to updates!


Thank you so much! Kira will be 3 months old on 4/8, and that means she will be breeding, so hopefully I will make another thread about her babies, and her of coarse.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

We have pigments! They are 5 days old with open ears and a very tiny amount of fur. Mum is doing her job well, eating all of her protein foods, and in turn the babies and nice and chubby. Sadly I have noticed one runt, he is just a tad smaller than his brothers and sisters; I will be watching him, and if he goes downhill he will be put down. Also, I got the sexing right! 3 bucks, 3 does.

On another note, here's the color information. It looks like we have one piebald, I suppose I wasn't able to unknowingly cull the pieds. :lol: I'm really glad I did this litter, it's teaching me a lot that I was unsure of about this line. First thing, either mum or dad is tan, because it looks like I got one black tan buck. This makes sense, because the granddam of both parents (Ginger Bread and Mr. puffs are siblings) was RY pied tan. The reason I didn't know this for sure, is because they are yellow, and yellow tans are hard to tell from yellow selves. I also confirmed that the gene I have been messing around with is belted and not banded! The grandsire is belted, bt/bt, therefor passing one copy to each Ginger and Mr. Puffs. I suppose the tan may be hard to breed out, because I won't be able to tell RY selves from RY tans; but since there's no visual difference, I guess it shouldn't be too much of a burden. However, I do like to know as much about the mice I'm breeding as possible, genetics information especially. With these color guesses, any of them could also be tan, the only one I can tell for sure is the above mentioned buck.

Here's a group shot from earlier today. You can see the smaller black tan buck off to the right side.









A picture of the tan runt's side:









The bucks. Color guesses from left to right: recessive yellow belted, blue, black tan.









The does. Color guesses left to right: fawn/argente, blue pied, recessive yellow.









Some face close ups from yesterday:


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## angelofwhimsy

Awww, very pretty!


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## andypandy29us

fab pics .... my wigglers wont sit still


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## ThatCertainGlow

I don't know if you have considered this, but a darker pigmented mouse tends to be a bit smaller than the lighter ones. So in a mixed litter, they would often be smaller than lighter mice. He doesn't really look runty on my screen? Just smaller.

If you get a decent tan on a chocolate, it wouldn't be a bad base at all for your RY's. Or at least so says the most often cited genetics page for mice. (Look under the Ay page.)


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## TwitchingWhiskers

ThatCertainGlow said:


> I don't know if you have considered this, but a darker pigmented mouse tends to be a bit smaller than the lighter ones. So in a mixed litter, they would often be smaller than lighter mice. He doesn't really look runty on my screen? Just smaller.
> 
> If you get a decent tan on a chocolate, it wouldn't be a bad base at all for your RY's. Or at least so says the most often cited genetics page for mice. (Look under the Ay page.)


Your right, I knew about it, but didn't put it into this situation. Thanks for reminding me!  I don't think I will be keeping him though, mainly because I don't need blacks, or tans. His skin seems a bit baggy, whereas his siblings are more filled out, which is cause for a bit of concern, but I will keep an eye on him. It seems as if many breeders usually get doe runts (glutton bucks), but is seems like my runts are always bucks for some reason. :?

For some reason, I am not found of tan mice, so I try to avoid them as much as possible. I don't have a real reason to dislike them, I just don't really like the way they look. Are you talking about Finnmouse's site?


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## Seafolly

HOW did I miss this thread?! Your babies are gorgeous!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Thank you Seafolly!


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## ThatCertainGlow

How wild that you get runty bucks, instead of does! I would even go so far, sometimes, of making a separate buck litter when I found males I wanted to check out later. It wasn't like they made a huge difference, but I could tell the litters without the bucks were just a touch better off. Baggy skin is a cause for concern, and seeing how you have less than zero interest in tans, keeping a version not bursting with excellence doesn't seem like a good idea, to me. 

Yes, Finnmouse.  Sorry that was a bit cryptic... I was going to link right where I re-read it, then it suddenly occurred to me there isn't a link-back on the site; and I wasn't really sure if it was allowed to be linked. LOL


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## Sizzlea89

They are looking great  don't worry too much about the wee black one, he will just naturally be smaller with darker pigmentation


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## Seafolly

Oddly enough, my smallest babies in my current litter (pinkie stage) were males as well. Haven't seen it before either!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

I was half way expecting him to be smaller from day one, because when comparing scull sizes, his brothers had wider sculls, and I just felt like keeping him as a sort of an extra. Looking at him today, his skin actually doesn't look as baggy; but I doubt I will be able to find a home for him, so he will probably be culled in the end, regardless of his being smaller. It looks like the glutton of this litter is the argente/fawn doe! She's a very chubby bub.

ThatCertainGlow: I really need to start reading more on Finnmouse, I barely visit their site anymore!

I'm going to need to give an update soon, they are getting very furry, and starting to walk around a bit more!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

These babies are crazy!! They are eleven days old now and as of yesterday they are walking around the cage, one even attempted to climb the side (it's a smooth bin :| ), and they don't even have their eyes open yet! Anyway they have their fur and they are so cute, I'm in love with them. Although, I fall in love with every litter around this stage, then they start annoying me when they can jump 1 foot off the ground. :lol: The updated photo's were taken yesterday, when they were 10 days.

For an update on the black tan buck, he seems to have caught up with the others and looks great. I have a shot as comparison to one of his sisters, and the difference is barely noticeable.

Group shot. One buck decided he didn't want to sit in the line.








Recessive yellow doe. I will be keeping her as a breeder towards my RY self (or tan) line.








Black tan buck. I have decided not to cull him, and in the instance that anyone may want to buy him, I will sell him now that he is no longer smaller; so he's available.








Blue piebald doe. She's being kept for my blue variegated line.








Fawn (possibly argente) doe. Available.








Recessive yellow belted buck. Keeping as a breeder towards my recessive yellow's.








Blue tan buck. Keeper, for my black variegated line.








Black tan buck and blue pied doe comparison photo:









I also thought I would add: I have six new arrivals! My blue belted doe gave birth to six last night, I haven't gotten around to sexing them yet, I'm just so thrilled I don't have to cull any! There daddy is black variegated, and doesn't carry blue and I don't think he carries belted, so there should just be variegated and self blacks and doves. Both are P/p so yes, dove.


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## Seafolly

Beauties! My only regret so far is not breeding my beautiful RY doe that looks a lot like your first one. At 10 months old she's the most stunning mouse I've seen.  
I do adore litters with variety. Lucky you having such a small litter!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Too bad, I'm sure she's beautiful! That's one reason that I like bucks, there no limit to number of breeding's and age. I love RY's, I just need to improve sootiness and umbrous looking patches. Litters with variety are nice, but it's easier for me to make type decisions when there's only one color in the litter.

My pinkie age litter is disappointing me. While it was a small litter, I ended up culling it to four this morning, one buck and one doe (the skinniest two), because they are looking very boney. My last litter with this line was the same way, litter of 8 and they were all skinny, so I culled back until there was only one baby left; that remaining baby in the dam of this litter. Anyway, I hope they fatten up, it's quite worrisome on my part.


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## Seafolly

Me too! I didn't breed her because she looks umbrous but in hindsight, her stunning type (for pet stock in Canada) and huge eyes would have been the route to follow. Sigh. I bred her blue sister instead...created a lovely blue baby but RY, I agree, is lovely. I now know what you mean about selection being a bit easier when they're the same physically. I was groaning about how my bucks are physically identical (I literally measured with a ruler!) but the personalities are not. 

Oh dear. I guess it's difficult figuring out what causes this in terms of possible low milk, or something genetic, or perhaps the babies aren't that lively or...who knows. :/ I hope the four do well!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

I love mouse personalities! They are so unique, and even if some mice are not keen on handling they are still nice in there own little ways. 

I cannot even begin to think of how I would be able to figure out the cause for skinny babies going down a line, but I certainly don't want that kind of problem. It has been the belted mice that have it, and I have the variegated and blue genes seperatly that I can use to create d/d W/*, which is my end goal. I guess what I am trying to say is, I can go another route and still end up with blue variegated mice. Then I could discontinue this generation of belted's.

I understand if you haven't a clue what I just said. :lol:


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## RockyMountainMice

They are all beautiful!  Wish I were closer, I'd take that tan buck!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

I would give him to you Sabrina! He's not going to be a great tan because tan is not at all my specialty, but here's hoping someone can take him!


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## RockyMountainMice

Blah, I wish I could just drive on down! I'll ask around though and see if any friends are coming up... Hmmm....


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Yeah, just let me know if you could sort it out!


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## Sizzlea89

I think it's great that on here everyone can exchange mice if they are local enough


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## RockyMountainMice

Me too Sizzlea!  I certainly will TW.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Yes Sizzlea, I love this forum!


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## Sizzlea89

It's a great forum! And every is so helpful!


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## RockyMountainMice

Indeed!


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## Lyra

Och wow, wonderful babies! RY looks great, it may sound strange but I've seen them first on this forum, I guess the aren't popular in my country.

I've never culled newborns, as I like to see what colour they will be, first. If I'd culled before that, I'd be going crazy, wondering what else could have been there  Not so good in sexing them so young, too...


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## FeralWolf

I LOVE the blue tan buck. I see why you're keeping him.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Lyra: I think I can safely say that I am pretty good at sexing pinkies. I rarely get it wrong. Trust me, I used go crazy, kicking myself wondering if I culled the perfect mouse. It's just something I had to get over.

FeralWolf: The only reason I'm keeping him is for the blue, not the tan. His type is kind of bothering me, he has a pointy face; although I do try to make type decisions later, around 6 weeks, right now is much to young to tell for sure. I agree though, he's a cutie.


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## RockyMountainMice

Michelle from Runaway Mousery actually put together an AWESOME page recently on selecting for type in young mice. I found it really helpful!
http://runawaymousery.weebly.com/select ... -type.html


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## Lyra

Great site, RockyMountainMice, thank you 

TwitchingWhiskers, I'm trying to get better in sexing pinkies by sexing them early, writing sexes down, then checking if I was correct later. I'm doing quite ok, but I could be much better... I'm jealous of your skills now


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## ThatCertainGlow

Thanks so much for the link, RockymountainMice, and to Runaway Mousery for putting it up! Makes it really easy to explain to my housemate what I'm babbling on about. Plus, he doesn't have to deal with an actual mouse in front of him. 

*edited due to thanking the wrong person...  *


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## Seafolly

RockyMountainMice said:


> Michelle from Runaway Mousery actually put together an AWESOME page recently on selecting for type in young mice. I found it really helpful!
> http://runawaymousery.weebly.com/select ... -type.html


Such a fantastic page! Unfortunately for me, the bucks I was trying to choose between looked identical in all these regards. Their sister had a better head hands down, but interestingly enough, her eyes are so tiny compared to theirs!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Very helpful, I usually only look around the scull, but I will certainly start looking more at the tail base when selecting pinkies. Thank you for sharing that page.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Update time! Luckily non of them have decided to start popcorning yet. They are having fun exploring a huge 56 quart tub with Kira and Ginger Bread. I have one Ginger look alike doe in here, she's got a lot of sootiness, so I'm hoping most of that will clear up nicely like usual. I've thought of cute little names for my keeper does, not sure if the bucks will be getting names though, as I intend to replace them, with their future sons. It has also been confirmed that the pink eyed yellow doe is in fact argente, not fawn. These pictures were taken yesterday, it was until now that I got around to uploading them.

Group shot. There is no way I would have been able to get them to form a proper line.









TWM's Little Angel.

















Black tan buck, this boy is so a poser.

















TWM's Starry Night.









Argente doe. She didn't really want to take pictures, so this is the best one.









RY belted buck. He's got an adorable face. :love1 

















Blue tan buck.









If anyone was wondering about the other litter, I will be making a separate thread shortly.


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## ThatCertainGlow

Aww. They look very sweet, and healthy. I have a 'Starry Night' version. Mine is called Partly Cloudy, her 'clouds' are more distinct. :lol:

Good luck with your Angel.  Thanks for the update.


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## RockyMountainMice

Oh my they are so big! And gorgeous. That little Black Tan buck has my heart. I am trying to find a way to get him here but it's doubtful.


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## Seafolly

Is it just me, or do those sooty RY's have amazing eyes? I produced one last year and her eyes were huge in comparison to her sisters.

Starry Night is beautiful! They all are.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

ThatCertainGlow: Partly Cloudy! I love it!

RockyMountainMice: He will be here until he is 6 weeks, and he's not even weaned yet, so at least you have some time? Thank you, and yes they grow up very fast.

Seafolly: It's not just you, I have always noticed that my RY's have bigger eyes than my other mice. Ginger Bread has nice big eyes too, so they will hopefully have it from her.


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## RockyMountainMice

Awesome!! Trying to find transport and will keep you updated.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Great!


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## Sizzlea89

They are gorgeous! So jealous of this litter haha! Iv just got a nice big handfull of banded mix and match!


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Aw, thank you! I am very happy with them so far, I cannot wait for the next generation of recessive yellows! Then I will have a nice big handful of one of my favorite varieties just like you have with your bandeds. Do you have pics of them up somewhere?


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