# Dead or Alive



## Cordane

I'm all kinds of nervous right now.. I've either killed them all or saved them all..

The cinnamon doe I got while on my roadtrip gave birth yesterday. When I first got them out to check them over and sex them, I see rather small milk bellies and some with no obvious milk belly at all. I thought maybe Mum just had them or something. I sexed them and weighed them and then quickly put them back in with Mum and shoo'd her into the nest. I checked on them this morning and they had no milk bellies, their ribs were starting to become visible. Again, I shoo'd Mum into the nest, blocked off the exits with my hands and waited for a few minutes, opened the lid and saw they were feeding so I left. I checked once again this afternoon and again, no milk bellies, ribs visible and spines starting to become visible.

While normally I would cull an entire litter if this happened, Trixie had given birth on the 23rd (4 days prior to the Cinnamon) so I thought I would give them a chance.
I put Trixie and Cinnamon in the same cage for a while to introduce them. Things went a little rough at some points but as soon as I introduced nesting material, they settled down immediately and began to groom one another. I put the babies together, covered them in bits of each nest and put them in the cage with both Mums.

I really hope I've done the right thing in merging the litters..
I haven't heard any squeaking so I suppose that could be a good or a bad thing, they are both in the nest as I type so here's hoping things go well..


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## Cordane

Well so far, it seems my worrying was for nothing. Both Mums have been in the nest feeding all the bubs, a few squeaks here and there from the bubs when one of the Mums leaves the nest though but that's nothing new.

But it seems to have worked! Look! Milk Bellies!


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## MythsNTails

Yay! I love stories with happy endings. Good luck wishes to your bubs!


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## NikiP

Congrats! Good thinking!


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## PPVallhunds

Good news, perhaps the mother just doesn't have the milk for some reason.


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## Laigaie

Poor first mum, trying so hard to feed babies when she just didn't have it. :/ She may not be a good idea to breed again unless you know you've got another litter on hand to foster to.


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## Cordane

That's where it gets weird.. She isn't a first time Mum. While yes, she is a pet store mouse, a friend of a friend had her and she had a litter there which as far as I know was successful.
And not to worry, I was going to retire her after this litter as no one is sure how old she is. The sire of her litter is a self black (carries chocolate, pink eyes and "c") so I'm just hoping for a self black buck and a cinnamon somewhere in there.

I'll update again very shorty when I go to check on the babies, hopefully all is well though I was happy to find out last night that Trixie has been a foster Mum before


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## GibblyGiblets

I've had that happen before, where the first litter was fine, second litter the mother had no milk, lost the entire litter because I didn't have anyone to foster the babies to, glad your little bubens are doing ok though!


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## Cordane

Well I had to make the decision to put 3 of the little bubs out of their misery. 5 of them looked much better, gaining weight, no visible bones, obvious milk bellies but 3, despite having small milk bellies, were still very skinny and had not gained weight..
So here we go, a picture of the remaining 5


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## blackbirdmice

It's great to see the fostering is working so far! I always love your updates and can't wait to see them all as hoppers C:


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## Cordane

blackbirdmice said:


> It's great to see the fostering is working so far! I always love your updates and can't wait to see them all as hoppers C:


Awww! Thank you! Knowing my luck, I just culled the babies that were going to turn out to be the colours I want..


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## blackbirdmice

Cordane said:


> blackbirdmice said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's great to see the fostering is working so far! I always love your updates and can't wait to see them all as hoppers C:
> 
> 
> 
> Awww! Thank you! Knowing my luck, I just culled the babies that were going to turn out to be the colours I want..
Click to expand...

Hopefully luck will be on your side! What are you aiming for?


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## Cordane

blackbirdmice said:


> Cordane said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackbirdmice said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's great to see the fostering is working so far! I always love your updates and can't wait to see them all as hoppers C:
> 
> 
> 
> Awww! Thank you! Knowing my luck, I just culled the babies that were going to turn out to be the colours I want..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hopefully luck will be on your side! What are you aiming for?
Click to expand...

Oh luck really isn't on my side with mouse litters these days. I've paired up a pied black tan with a self black buck, I didn't get a single self or tan in a litter of 9. lol
I'm hoping for a self black or cinnamon anything buck.


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## blackbirdmice

You still haven't gotten your own black self? D:
At least your not alone when it comes to mice torturing you. I just had a litter of merle babies... 11 born, only 4 does and she culled the litter before I could do anything so now I have 9, with 6 bucks and 3 does. I was like "NOOOOOOOOO" when I sexed them again.


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## Cordane

blackbirdmice said:


> You still haven't gotten your own black self? D:
> At least your not alone when it comes to mice torturing you. I just had a litter of merle babies... 11 born, only 4 does and she culled the litter before I could do anything so now I have 9, with 6 bucks and 3 does. I was like "NOOOOOOOOO" when I sexed them again.


Oh no. I do have a self black 
When I went on my little road trip last week, I got myself a standard self black doe and a poor longhair black tan doe - the only problem is that I don't have a self black buck to pair them to.. I mean I could always pair them to my self dilute agouti boy but that includes a whole lot of dilutes I'm not sure I want to get into.
Speaking of, I need to get new pictures of him..

Awwww what?! Always the girls right?
From Trixies litter, there was originally 3 girls and 4 boys. The runt was a girl and disappeared over night, another girl died the next day and I just kept saying "are you freaking kidding me" while digging a small hole in the garden to bury them.


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## blackbirdmice

That is awesome! Well if you don't get a black self buck, your dilute agouti boy is absolutely stunning and who doesn't like dilute surprises every once and a while 
Well I do have good news for my merles. When I checked on them again today shes down to seven, but the two culled were both male. I have no idea what she is doing with them as they literally "vanish" overnight... Oh mice, what would we do without them!


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## Cordane

blackbirdmice said:


> That is awesome! Well if you don't get a black self buck, your dilute agouti boy is absolutely stunning and who doesn't like dilute surprises every once and a while
> Well I do have good news for my merles. When I checked on them again today shes down to seven, but the two culled were both male. I have no idea what she is doing with them as they literally "vanish" overnight... Oh mice, what would we do without them!


Aw why thank you! Taittenger is lovely, my first ever self so I'm quite smitten with him :lol: 
Well that is good ish news. At least it wasn't more girls right? I'd love to see pictures 

And a little update on my little guys and gals.
They are doing SO much better. Growing nicely, a little dehydrated but when I pulled them out, the mums were just feeding them - oops. As soon as I put them back, both Mums rushed in and were feeding the bubs again. Pigment has started to come in, I'm not sure of three of the bubs, their pigment may not have fully come in yet.








Buck, Buck, Doe, Doe, Buck
Eeeeeee! Only one spotty to be seen currently!


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## andypandy29us

beautiful babies


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## Cordane

Sooo.. I won't have time to take pictures of them today (I'm running late as is - Oops!) but here is a picture of them yesterday. Day 4. They look SO much better than they did on day 3. I'm super happy with them so far 
Doe, Buck, Buck, Buck, Doe.


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## Laigaie

Good looking pups! Does spotty pup have a truncated tail? It's not uncommon for the very end to have been damaged by mum, and I've been watching for it lately after bringing a mouse all the way to RF without noticing it this year.


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## Cordane

Yes, the spotty bubs tail is a little damaged by Mum. It seems to have happened to one male bub in each litter actually.


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## Laigaie

I find it's only barely noticeable in the adults, a minor cosmetic issue that merely prevents you from showing them (not really an issue in your case).


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## Cordane

Another little update. Today, they are 6 days old. Still growing and thankfully, the girls are the biggest!
Yep! I have 4 self babies in this litter and I believe the darkest is going to be a self black! Eeeeeeeee! Though I have absolutely NO idea what the 3 lighter ones will be.. Cinnamon maybe? Who knows. I cannot wait for fuzz to come in


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## TwitchingWhiskers

They look good Cordane! Fingers crossed that you do indeed have a black self. I will be following this, to see what those lighter ones are.


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## Cordane

I'm thinking either a dilute agouti (cinnamon or c dilute) or a light mock chocolate.
Mum is : A/a b/b C/* P/* s/s
Dad is : a/a B/b C/c P/p S/s


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## NikiP

So chubby!! Glad the little guys are taking off by leaps & bounds!


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## Cordane

Still no closer to figuring out what colour they will be.. 
3 boys : 2 girls


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## Cordane

Well what do you know, colours are finally becoming more obvious! 






















It seems the 3 unknowns are all agouti based! Two cinnamons and a c-dilute I believe


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## Cordane

Update 
Cinnamons Litter : Day 11


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## thammy24

I like the pied munchkin with the black face, he's cute


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## TwitchingWhiskers

Oh they look great, I love the cinnamons!


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## andypandy29us

so pleased you finally got your black self  I love the pied one


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## Cordane

Just a small update :


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## TwitchingWhiskers

I just adore the black!


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## Cordane

TwitchingWhiskers said:


> I just adore the black!


She is so very pretty isn't she? I must admit, I'm a little pissed off with her though - she has some white hairs on her belly  Grrrrrr


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## TwitchingWhiskers

All the black selves I've had get those white hairs on the sides of their bellies. Just something poor blacks get, just like yellow ears and white/yellow by their nose. She is a cutie, regardless.


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## Cordane

Gosh I hope you are right.
Though it is completely possible she is pied - her mum is pied with only a belly spot.

Either way, I still have a self black doe on hand


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## TwitchingWhiskers

The way I have seen it, they have just a few white hairs, not full spots or splotches. I have a blue belted doe, and her belt is so small I can only sometimes see it while she is genetically bt/bt. Would it be possible to get pictures of her belly? Maybe we could help. Anyway, I hope she's self!


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## Cordane

After inspecting it closely, the white seems to only be on the tips of her coat in some places which would explain why the first time I checked, she looked like a self. Then as she aged and her coat grew longer, the white tips appeared.


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## TwitchingWhiskers

They can be so sneaky about hiding their markings sometimes. :roll: Most of that looks like regular poor black self faults, but the collection of white fur in the middle almost looks like a marking. I doubt it though, maybe that could be something from her being longhair? I have never had longhairs before so that is uncharted territory for me.


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## NikiP

She's so cute! Squee! Actually they are both adorable


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## Cordane

I haven't taken pictures of Cinder (the doe) but I did take a picture of the cinnamon buck last night - the flash at night altered his colour pretty badly.

Poof!


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