# Fainting Goat... Mice???



## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Have you heard of those fainting goats? The ones where they get started and all their muscles lock up, making them fall over? They get up in a couple seconds, no harm done? Well I recently had a couple mice do the same thing...

I was cleaning out a cage of young RY does, all 8-10 weeks old. There were a couple satins and the rest are normal coated, all black-eyed. There are 8 does total. As I was putting them in a temporary holding cage while I was cleaning their regular cage (11x19 lab cage), some of the does were tame enough to walk into my hand, and some were more jumpy, and I picked them up by the base of their tail. Two of the mice I picked up went into a kind of seizure when I grabbed their tails. Mice normally wiggle when held in the air by their tail, but this was very different.

It wasn't a huge grand-mal seizure, like people have, just she stretched out her legs as far as possible, arched her back, and shook for a couple seconds. I was very alarmed, and cupped her in my hand immediately. By the time I'd even gotten my hand around her, the seizure was already done, and she was completely normal and calm. She was a satin. The next couple does went fine, but after that another had the exact same seizure when I picked her up by her tail.

Again, I put this girl down immediately. Her seizure lasted a couple seconds longer, since she was still seizing when I put her down, but within 2 seconds, she came out of it, was fine, no problems. On putting the does back into their regular cage, I deliberately picked each of them up by the tail in the same way and held them like that for a little bit, hoping to single out the ones having seizures. None of them had a seizure the second time around, and I couldn't tell which of them had had the seizures the first time.

So were they just startled, or is this a serious health problem I need to look into? I have no problem culling unhealthy animals or animals with defects I don't want to breed into the population (that's why I keep snakes), but from the way the mice were acting, it didn't seem to bother them. As anyone ever had fainting... mice... before? If there's no serious health problems (and the goats of the same condition seem to say there are not) it might be neat to try and fix the trait in a single line. A family of mice that fall over when you clap your hands! :lol:

On the other hand, I have no idea which of the 8 were the two that seized, and I would not purposefully breed any serious health problem into any line.

Ideas? Sound familiar? Any experience with fainting goats? Ever had this happen to you?

Please comment and let me know!


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

In goats it's caused by myotonia congenita. I'd just keep an eye on the mice to see if any problems continue.

I forget how it's inherited in goats, but it may be the type of thing that you could breed for, if you wanted (though I don't know why you'd really want to)...


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Myotonia doesn't involve shaking....in myotonia the skeletal muscles tense up and the animal freezes and can't really move. Goats are not the only species it occurs in....and so far as I'm aware it always presents the same...the muscles tense and the animal cannot move...there is not shaking involved.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Are you certain? I remember the goats I saw as a kid shaking--very minor, small shakes. But it's been forever, so I'll defer to you on that.

Myotonia itself can be caused by a bunch of nervous system disorders...


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Is there anyway you can upload a video?


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

...you could be right jack....I don't recall ever hearing shaking as part of it though...**shrug**


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I haven't been able to get the mice to react again, so a video would be impossible. Definitely all the muscles tensed up. It was more like a trembling than a full-on seizure, like when you stretch really hard and sometimes your arms or legs shake (or is that just me?). If I was able to identify the mice and breed for it, they'd be easy to catch if they ever got out... just shout, their muscles lock up, and you pick them up easy-peasy... lol :lol:


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

I have had the exact thing happen!! I bought a belted agouti doe at a Petco. She is quite tiny and wild-typey, but I was interested in the belt so I got her anyway. She's difficult to handle therefore I picked her up by the tail while cleaning cages. Her front legs stretched out as far as can be, her back arched downwards, and she became so stiff she trembled a little (the way your muscles might tremble if you picked up something incredibly heavy- not at all a seizure). The first time I immediately sat her down where the "fit" continued on the ground for 2-3 seconds. A few, but not many of her relatives display this reaction. And the funniest thing is, that even those that do have these spasms don't necessarily have them every single time. I generally try not to pick mice up by the tails unless I have to, esp. these "fainting goat" mice as I don't know what kind of suffering/damage these fits might have. Also I wonder if the reason why they may or may not have a "fit" depends on where you grabbed their tails. These "fainting goats" are healthy and normal in every other way.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I have seen the seizure reaction in mice before, from various people, from various line, from pet stores, etc.

I think it's just a sort of reflex. It's stronger in some mice, and not so much in others. From the mice I've seen it in, I could never reliably get them to repeat the reaction.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes, that's it exactly! It wasn't really a seizure, but I didn't know what else to call it! It's good to know I'm not the only person who has had this experience. These are all does I bred myself, all otherwise healthy, but the ones I had to grab by the tail were generally the more wild ones. I wonder if they're just more sensitive to stimuli in general? Both mice I grabbed by the base of the tail, right up where the fur begins.


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