# Unusual traits



## WoodWitch

Over the past few days we've heard tales of SarahC's 'dwarf' mice, a mouse with 4 nostrils, mice that when kept in the dark often keel over in fit when light falls on them, and it has sparked an interest in what other unusual traits people have found in their mice, so here's a thread I hope you'll add to with your weird and wonderful findings. Pictures especially desirable!

I have rarely found anything strange so far myself apart from one of the possible "down syndrome" mice with a very unusual skull formation. The mouse withered fairly quickly. Sadly I don't have a picture.


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## SarahC

I sometimes get ones with odd skull formation,a sort of roman nose affair similar to a white bull terrier head.I've never kept any of those.We've had the threads with the dumbo eared mice,Cait had a good one of those.I used to get them fairly frequently but not had one in absolutely ages.


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## Frizzle

Here's the link to my thread with the extra toes (Pictures included). http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13694


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## PPVallhunds

I get an eye thing in the foxes where some can be born with there eyes open, they close back up after the first day or two, the first time I happened I kept it back and it was blind on that eye. I assume the exposur to light blinds the eye.


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## WoodWitch

That's fascinating and just the kind of oddity I was interested to hear about!


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## SarahC

great pictures and really weird about the open lids.


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## PPVallhunds

yeah its weaired and often seems to pop up in smaller litters just to be more of a pain lol


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## HemlockStud

Surprisingly I have yet to have any weird things pop up in 4 years of breeding mice... I only just recently had a tail kink on a mouse for the first time!


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## SarahC

I had a severe kinked tail today.The litter had been split into 2,this one alone small and thin the rest together chubby and thriving


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## PPVallhunds

Had one or two linked tails in the past but man Sarah that's one big kink, did its spine look fine


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## Seafolly

SarahC said:


> I sometimes get ones with odd skull formation,a sort of roman nose affair similar to a white bull terrier head.I've never kept any of those.


I saw one of these guys in a feeder bin. He ended up being a total sweetheart, but he was shortlived and died around 6 months of age. Some people have mentioned that mice with that pinched look between the eyes often end up being super friendly. I've noticed this among mine and although they're ugly it's hard to ignore the personality.


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## PPVallhunds

I'll have to find the photo of my super runt. When work got the fisrt mice in they came mixed and in one of the litters they looked normal at first but as they grew they wernt right, all were weird but super runt was the worst, she had lower set ears, tiny eyes, a hunched back and a flat face and smaller than the others, she also had no natural fear. But strangely she would run the longest and fastest on the wheel than the normal mice. Every day she would be waiting for me to get her out. The whole litter died befor they were 6 weeks, 3 in my hands, super runt the forth one was the last to die she went in her sleep.


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## SarahC

PPVallhunds said:


> Had one or two linked tails in the past but man Sarah that's one big kink, did its spine look fine


It's spine looked normal but as the does appeared to have left it maybe something else was wrong.I get a much higher incidence of kinks in silvered mice,not usually as severe as this.I religiously weed them out but it seems linked to the variety.


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## PPVallhunds

intresting about the silvers.

Heres my super runt
she was realy friendly she didn't seem to have the sence to be afraid of things like normal mice are guess in the wild those sorts would get eaten pretty fast.


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## Seafolly

SarahC said:


> Seafolly said:
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> SarahC said:
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> I sometimes get ones with odd skull formation,a sort of roman nose affair similar to a white bull terrier head.I've never kept any of those.
> 
> 
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> I saw one of these guys in a feeder bin. He ended up being a total sweetheart, but he was shortlived and died around 6 months of age. Some people have mentioned that mice with that pinched look between the eyes often end up being super friendly. I've noticed this among mine and although they're ugly it's hard to ignore the personality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hadn't heard about the friendliness,interesting.Could it be extra nurture from caring owners maybe?
Click to expand...

It's possible, but in my case not at all. The most pinched of my babies (had two litters at once this time, different sires) is attracted to my hand like a moth to a flame. I handled all babies the same amount but the rex babies were hands down insta-tame (except for one insane sister) whereas the satins with good heads took effort. My rex definitely have uglier heads.  But, it's the first litter so not judging too harshly.


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## Seafolly

This guy had the most pinched of faces in that litter and he was clearly the friendliest, most outgoing of the litter from the moment their eyes opened.

(pictured on new owner's hand...I'm still a girl, ha)


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## NikiP

Interesting, I have a doe kind of like that. Got one litter from her, nothing spectacular so I culled everyone, but she is a sweetheart. Is a longhair though, so i'm not sure if it's the way her hair grew or actual bone.

The pinkies with the eye issue freaked me :shock:


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## Cait

Good idea for a thread Naomi. I don't get too many weird things in my mice compared to some (I've never even had what is usually referred to as a haermaphrodite, which seems to be a "common" irregularity, nor have I ever bred an odd eyed mouse). But here's a couple of photos that might be of interest.

First is the "dumbo" mouse Sarah referred to. Sadly the doe died before I could attempt to reproduce it.









And here's a fuzzy with warts, just because you can see them better...


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## Cait

Here's another one. This is NOT my mouse but I have permission to post the pic here. Apparently it eats and drinks normally. Suggestions have been made that it has either fluid or air that is causing it to blow up like this.


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## moustress

Aren't all these varieties derived from lab experiments that caused radical changes in the genome? Once that happens, it's hard verging on impossible to weed these things out entirely. This is why I always use a healthy compatible outcross on lines of these sorts of meeces.

Mammals all descended from a common branch the oldest known example of which is a little tiny shrewlike thing. So, yes, we do get everything from lions and tigers and bears and warty witches and crusty things and everything else in the mammal lines. It's in there. It comes out.

When the DNA is twisted a bit extra going in, it does twisted things and it shows those things in the outcome.


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## SarahC

I discovered an umbilical hernia on a doe I wanted to show today,double disappointment as I won't be able to breed from her.I've only seen them on dogs,quite common in bulldogs and people.


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## moustress

Prpbably not a genetic thing; could it perhaps have been from straining at birth or from impaction?


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## love2read

I've had all kinds of weird stuff pop up...a gremlin(1 ear up, 1 ear down) with a crooked nose, a ridgeback, a "reverse" ridgeback(had a part down the back versus a ridge), a few funky tail kinks/porcine tails, polydactyls, and my most recent one is a cute little short-nosed mouse(not as crazy-short as the one pictured further back in the thread, just short compared to normal mice). I'll have to try an dig up pics of them all when I get a chance.

I've also had some of the pinkies that are born with their yes open. Very creepy!


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## moustress

Yeah, I have seen all those in my fifteen years. the ridge back was the most unusual; he looked part dinosaur.


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## Cait

Here's a pinky I found today. It's a doe (PEW) and is part of a litter of two, not from my lines - the first litter from a pair I was given as she arrived pregnant. You can see that she has one normal ear and one that is smaller and differently positioned on the side of her head.


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## WoodWitch

Ooooh, won't be showing that one then :lol:


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## pondering

One of my babies is one eyed... can't tell if it's genetic or an injury? Could take pics and see what you think but not tonight.


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## Cait

WoodWitch said:


> Ooooh, won't be showing that one then :lol:


No but as it's a litter of only two I've left them with their mother so we'll see what happens as she gets older.


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## SarahC

I have had the eye thing that ppvallhunds fox suffered from.Two in one litter of variegated.The first one I found was anaemic so I thought that might be the cause but 2 other anaemic had normal eyes and then a heavily marked variegated was afflicted.The heavily marked had strange feet as well.Unfortunately I'd already culled and disposed of the anaemic so I don't know if it had any strange feet as well.
the anaemic








the heavy marked








and it's strange feet


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## andypandy29us

My tris suffer quite a lot from kinked tails .... something Im trying really hard to erradicate


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## SarahC

PPVallhunds said:


> I get an eye thing in the foxes where some can be born with there eyes open, they close back up after the first day or two, the first time I happened I kept it back and it was blind on that eye. I assume the exposur to light blinds the eye.


I've had a couple of odd rabbits born PPVallhunds and a discussion on a rabbit group alerted me to 'max factors' in rabbits.Reckon it's the same thing especially as mine had the odd feet

Max Factors

We have now experienced Max factor with some of the Netherland Dwarfs we brought in. Not a pleasant experience and for that reason we decided to stop breeding our otter Nethies. A carrier is often prized by some exhibitors around the world, as it exhibits longer fur between the ears giving the appearance of a larger head. 
The Max factor gene is a recessive gene. The kit that exhibit the double dose of this gene often have fully open eye(s) or sometimes just partially open, even a slit (sometimes one can see fur stuck to the eye) Open eyes however slight/severe will lead to blindness.
The limbs are deformed, twisted or splayed.
The feet appear to resemble flippers, sometimes webbed and occasionally a dew claw may be present on the hind leg(s) 
The fur has spiked or very soft long appearance due to the lack of guard hairs.


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