# A Mouse And A Query.



## SmallFurryDisco (Jan 27, 2011)

Hello all,

One of my mice, Goth, got into a scrap with another mouse but I did not see who. When looking at her she seemed to have a few scratches but I thought they would heal. I separated and let her sleep in the caravan (a carry wagon) and give her lots of cuddles.

It seems to have gotten worse though. 
The fighting is no longer going on, I know that as their house is in our lounge and I am awake all night and when I do finally sleep my partner is keeping an eye out.

Her ears are really scabby and now her back feet look swollen on the heel and certain toes, and now her front paws have gotten a few swollen toes on them as well.
My first thoughts where that itching her ears with her feet has spread the infection.

Her ears just always seem to be itching her, however she is the only one with extreme itchiness.

For the past few nights I have bathed her ears in sterilised water with cotton buds to apply. Then I apply some salt and lemon water to the wound as they act like antiseptic, again applied with cotton buds.
Finally I put some lavender oil on her ears to help it heal.
I also managed to get her to drink some pineapple juice as that has healing qualities.

She was really good throughout and sat in my partners hand while I bathed everything...The feet, the ears and the toes.

Tonight she is staying in the caravan with no hay and is eating some treats as her weight has dropped a little from 35g to 30g in twenty days.

Sorry for going on...Has anyone got any ideas?? Does she need to see a doctor?? 

Thank you.

:book5


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Pineapple juice is probably not good for meeces. And I'm not at all sure of the efficacy of any of the other methods of treatment. I wouldn't use lemon juice on a mouse either.

Isolating an animal when it's sick is not a bad idea. Taking it to a doctor might be a good idea, but be warned that they most likely will advise you to have it put down.

I think you should check your meeces for mites, as that may contribute to crankiness in the one who was attacking the other, as well as some of the symptoms the sick mousie has had. Take some of the bedding and sprinkle it on a piece of paper toweling or TP. If there are mites you'd see tiny specks that move.

It could be an allergy to either food or bedding. What kind of bedding do you use? Pine and cedar can cause inflamation in meeces. Diet might be a problem; too much protein, too much fat, or an allergy to corn, wheat, or something else. Citrus products are not good for mousies to eat, as they make their own Vitamin C, and extra can cause acidosis.

It could be from dry air from heating; it's called cold tissue disease which happens in the extremities when dry skin cracks and allows infection to set in. Or it could be mange. There are inexpensive ways to treat a mousie at home for mites.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

If your in the UK, taking her along to a good amall animal vet would be a good idea, although vets don`t always have the answer to compulsive itching in mice. They will treat her topically for mites though and possibly give you Baytril (antibiotic) to give to her for any infection that might be present. Baytril can be dosed on a very small piece of tea biscuit two or three times a day.

It`s best not to apply creams, powders or lotions as many of these can be licked off and ingested and some wil sting open wounds, so it`s hard to tell if they are safe. The best thing to use on her is boiled, COOLED water and a level teaspoon of salt added. Let the salt melt in the hot water and then once cooled, apply to any bloodied areas with a cotton ball. Use a fresh ball each time.

I`ve never seen infection spread to their feet before however. There is obviously some kind of infection or allergen going on here. Are any of your other mice showing these symptoms? Or do you think it might be triggered by the bite she got? Sometimes micewil be attacked or bullied and stress can trigger off a reaction to this and cause the immune system to lower and mites to flare up. Seperating her from her friends really depends on the severity of her condition, or whether she was physically being attacked and blood drawn by one of the other mice. How is she today?


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## SmallFurryDisco (Jan 27, 2011)

Thank you for the replies.

She is a little better today, but still highly itchy. I have checked for mites and their seems to be no sign of any...Especially as their bedding is usually kitchen roll and some J-cloths.

The mice's tank has hay on the floor and then their bedding is as I said above.
Recently I soaked and scrubbed all of their toys and the ones that I could not soak or scrub got thrown away, just in case there where any mites.

I doubt our local vet would put the mouse down, we have a great local vet and they will try their best if their is something that can be done. We have had a mouse with suspected cancer that had an operation and another mouse that did get put down but that was because she had a severe brain illness.

None of the other mice are showing signs of illness, even the older fat one.

I have been using boiling water cooled down with salt as I have piercings and that is what I use on them to heal. The chemical in lemon juice can bring down inflammation and it seems to be helping the feet.

The pineapple I doubt would of caused damage as it was heavily diluted in water and the mice have always munched on dry fruit including pineapple...But only very, very occasionally.

Her problems have only come on in recent weeks, and nothing has changed in her diet or bedding wise. So I am pretty confident that it is not environment or mites.

When it came to the injuries sustained it was mainly fur pulled out and a few injuries to the ears. But I would not keep her separate for that as all of the mice at some point have had a few injuries from fights but now they get on fine.

The heat well there is not a lot I can do about that, the housing situation for the humans is complicated but lets just say that the flat is freezing cold so the heating needs to be on, but we do keep it to a minimum and the mice do sleep away from the heat.

I guess I will ring the vet and just get them to check everything over.

Thank you people. 

:book5


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

The only thing I would suspect tht you use is hay. I never use it because even with the best intentions, it can still harbour parasites, dust or mould, depending on where the hay comes from, a farm or a pet shop. As a floor substrate, it won`t be very absorbent either, so I would get rid of the hay and use a paper based substrate/litter. If you have any farm supply shops near you, they might sell one of the large bales of bedxcel, ecobed or similar. They are either shredded cardboard or small squares of cardboard. In my opinion, these are the least likely to cause any problems as they have no odour and don`t harbour any parasites. Eco friendly too! Mice love it.

Many of the so called `safe` litters in shops like Carefresh and shavings can actually cause a reaction in mice, so they are best avoided. Using thick newspaper on the floor is better if you can`t find a decent substitute. You can also shred some sheets of newspaper as nesting material.


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## geordiesmice (Oct 26, 2010)

Use megazzzzzzorb racingmouse lol  I hate carefresh.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

I would geordie but I`m scared it will have the same effect as the Carefresh did! Last time I used Megazorb (years ago) I thought it was dusty and smelled like chicken manure! Poo..... :lol:


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

There are two things I would check, a nickel allergy and a food allergy.

Does your mouse live in a cage? If she does she could have developed an allergy to the nickel in the bars, which would explain the feet swelling and the scabs. If you do house her in a cage you could try housing her in a plastic or glass tank and see if that solves the problem.

What kind of diet are you feeding her? Food allergies (particularly to wheat) can cause hot spots, which are inflamed areas that can swell and become scabby. If you suspect this you could try feeding her *only* plain porridge oats, boiled rice and a bit of cooked chicken meat for at least two weeks. That should clear up any symptoms of a food allergy and will enable you to tell if that's what it is. If it does clear up then start adding ingredients, one at a time for two weeks at a time, until the problem starts up again and the allergen is indentified.

Good luck with her!

Sarah xxx


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## SmallFurryDisco (Jan 27, 2011)

Hello and thank you for the replies.

I have tried all sorts of different bedding and to be honest the hay is the best. I am on a limited budget and I think the mass produced paper style bedding is rubbish, highly expensive and not very good for the environment. I have a large tank so trying to keep up with the expense of the paper stuff would get stupid. I get my hay from a pet shop but it is from a group of locally sourced farms and is very cheap and very stimulating.
I know not to use shavings, that was the first thing I read about.
I always go through the hay for nettles or anything else spiky and I always shake off the excess dust, plus I never use the dusty bits at the bottom of the bag.
If there where mites in the hay I am sure the others would be suffering, would they not?
Another issue is that I got rid of the hay one of my mice, Pancake would have nothing to do, she loves spending hours just chewing down the hay to one size and moving it to different areas..It is her hobby.
The hay actually makes the mousey home smells a lot less then the absorbent stuff.

They have hay on the three levels but the one corner they use as a nest is filled with paper towels, J-cloths and the occasional receipt that we bring back from the shop, they just go mad for dragging them to the nest.

Regarding the mouse house they have a good sized tank with three levels, I would never use a cage for them as I tend to get quite small mice and they would escape. A tank also offers more warmth for them and in the long run is cheaper then buying and replacing plastic tanks.

When it comes to food I feed them the only mouse food I can find in the whole county. There is one local garden centre that sells bags of mouse food so I feed them that and every other day I add some oats, seeds, dried coconut and chopped mixed nuts into their bowls...It does wonders for their fur.
They have other treats too such as dog biscuits, millet, the occasional fruit or veg (I know not to give them too much as it causes tummy problems, plus to remove it from the cage after they have had a chance to nibble on it), mixed herbs and other bits and pieces but we are very careful what we give them.

She has oats already and she has had rice before. I would not give her chicken just because I am vegetarian so cooking chicken for mice would be a bit extreme. In the mouse mix that I get them there are turkey pellets but they hate them as the pet shops I got them from weaned them on hamster food.

Her feet have been getting better with the salt water mixture but the ears are the same, if not more itchy. I think part of the problem is that she does nothing but itch her ears so they never really get a chance to heal.

Thank you for the replies and luck. 

Money fairy is not coming for a week or so so I guess I will keep bathing her ears and feet, and if still no change then I will get hold of the vet.

:book5


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I've used Benadryll for itchy meeces, and for ones with respiratory symptoms. I get the generic diphenhydramine syrup for kids, and add a teaspoon to four ounces of water.


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## SmallFurryDisco (Jan 27, 2011)

Well I went to the vet and she said that my mouse had an infection in her bloodstream, so she got an injection of antibiotics. We know have to give her some antibiotics orally for a week.

The vet said that the hay was fine to use, and also said that my mice are always very alert, have good coats and have a great temperament, so now I know that I am doing nothing wrong.

I asked loads of questions and she said to just carry on with what I am doing. Just make sure that Goth is separated for a week, but as she is getting really sad I put a sister with her.

She is now really grumpy with me but hopefully the sister (Anarchy) that I put in her cage will cheer her up. Trust me giving a mouse oral medicine can be tricky.

:book5


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Sadly though, not all vets are seasoned mouse keepers and seperating her from her cagemates is the worst thing for her because when a mouse is ill, the last thing she needs is solitary confinement! I`m glad you seen this and added a friend for her. I`m talking about pet mice here and not people with colonies where ty might not want anything spreading to their other mice. With pet mice, it does`nt matter so much as they are already exposed anyway if they have lived with the mouse previously.

Hay is not something I personally use. Mice will nibble it, but I don`t believe they benefit from it at all and prefer to use a bedding I recently came across (thanks to zany!  ) called Petlife Safebed Paper Wool. It`s not actualy a `wool` (why they call it this I don`t know) but it resembles a white shredded paperish jay cloth material. I`ve just ordered two small bags of it to today because my mice love it and I know they won`t catch any parasites from it. Sourcing decent litters and beddings for mice is difficult anyway as many cause allergies or reactions causing either respiratory problems and itching, even though the manufacturers say otherwise.

Which oral antibiotic did your vet give you? If it`s baytril, just break up a small 5mm piece of rich tea biscuit and drop the baytril dose onto the broken edge of the biscuit. Let it soak in and give to the mouse when she`s awake. Don`t wake her to medicate her or she will probably not take it as easy. If it is baytril, dose it at least twice a day, if not three times a day, morning, afternoon and night.


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## SmallFurryDisco (Jan 27, 2011)

Hello,

I understand why the vet said this though as the other mice where picking on her as she was very vulnerable, that is why we picked the most mild mannered mouse to spend time with her.
Blot had to go in solitary after her operation as the other mice would of pulled her stitches out.
We usually get one or more of the mice out each evening anyway so she gets time with her sisters.

None of the other mice had infections so giving her some space and protecting the other mice is worth it.

Pancake benefits from hay a lot and so do most of my mice. Pancake does not get out of bed if there is no hay to mess around with. They can make loads of tunnels in it and it keeps their minds active which is really important with mice.
The hay is only used as a substrate, the actual nesting material is J-cloth and kitchen towels with the odd receipt...In winter if I can get some I will put some fluff in there for them.

I refuse to buy nesting material for mice from the pet shop as it is a complete rip off. A small bag of what is just chopped up J-cloth costs about £1 odd for what might be only two nests worth, but a pack of J cloths is about 38p for what might be four or five nests worth, plus I get to cut it up into the size I want.
The people who make nesting material are laughing all the way to the bank.

My mice have never had parasites and if anything exposure to some dirt does them good as it builds up an immune system. I do not mind giving them flowers, leaves, twigs, stones or feathers from outside, they go mad for it.

The vet gave us Marbocyl, we have to give her 0.05ml a day. The vet gave us a syringe to get it into her mouth. We have found the best way to give it to her is to make up the medicine in the syringe then get her out of the nest and while still groggy hold her tight and hold her scruff to make her open her mouth, put the syringe in then squirt out the syringe into her mouth. By the time we let her go she has swallowed the medicine and only just woken up enough to register what has happened. She always gets a treat after taking it though and lots of cuddles. Then she goes home to have her tea and a play with her sister.

The vet said we had two options...put some in her water and not really know how much she was taking or squirt it into her mouth. As our mice are very tame and have a great temperament and not really biters then we said we would try the syringe way.
Plus doing it the syringe way lets her get it over and done with and allows her sister to be in with her, if she had the medicine in her water we could not allow another mouse to share her cage.
Plus getting her out each day gives us a chance to check her over.

Like the vet said as well, she does not know what it tastes like so she has no idea if a mouse would eat or drink it willingly. The mouse seems to hate the taste/smell of it so I doubt applying it to food or water would work. Just putting the medicine near her makes her back off and screw her face up.

So far so good, one ear is completely healed the other one is scabbing over nicely and the redness is going from her feet the swelling is slowly going away too.
We have another four days to go and if the feet are still swollen then she will need to go back.

We have her medicine in a prescription bottle from the vet so we are following the instructions on that, it seems a waste of a prescription bottle with such a small amount of liquid in it.

The veterinary surgery we go to is a hospital as well as a walk-in clinic and they deal with all animals including farm animals so I trust them. They did a great job of my mouses surgery so I trust them with what they say and suggest.
Neither of my mice bit the vet so the vet must be good, especially as the mice where both happy to sit in her hand and have a cuddle, even Blot when the vet was pulling stitches out.

Thank you for the words and I will let you know how she is doing after the weeks worth of medication.

:book5


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## geordiesmice (Oct 26, 2010)

Well done smallfurydisco your dedication to your mice is to be admired.I hope she is fit and well very soon  and what a great username too.


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## Kallan (Aug 16, 2009)

Your vet sounds good; who is it?


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## SmallFurryDisco (Jan 27, 2011)

I live in the England and the vet I use is Axe Valley in Somerset, if you live near them I highly recommend them. If you can get to the one in Wedmore even better. I have seen two vets in that surgery and both have been excellent, even stopping to give the mice a cuddle before the examination.

Take today for instance I needed to get one of my mice put to sleep as her tumour had regrown and the vet and the reception staff were so sympathetic...even offering me a drink while they did what they had to do.

Is it just me that is very thankful of a good small animal vet in their area?? 

:book5


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

I'm sorry one of your mice had to be put to sleep but yes, it makes all the difference to have a vet who is good with small animals and sympathetic staff at the surgery.


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