# Help please found babies



## Sally

Hi, I have what I was told was 6 female mice. I noticed a few days ago one was very fat well today I found babies :shock: I took the other five to the place where I got them from and they still couldn't tell who the male is. I don't know what to do. A few look pregnant. Any advice?


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## Lilly

It really depends what you want to do,

If you don't want to have a population explosion and deal with things and cannot sex the mice then I would probably try to find a rescue or breeder near you to take them, or return them. With a male in there then it would be highly likely all the females are pregnant (unless its possible they were pregnant before you got them?)

If you can take clear photos of their genital area we can probably tell you who is the male in your group if there is any so you can isolate him straight away.

Further advice can be given when you decide what you want to do, do you want to keep them and deal with the litters? Do you have homes to split up the boys at 4 weeks? Are you prepared to house each female in separate cages to give birth if needed?


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> It really depends what you want to do,
> 
> If you don't want to have a population explosion and deal with things and cannot sex the mice then I would probably try to find a rescue or breeder near you to take them, or return them. With a male in there then it would be highly likely all the females are pregnant (unless its possible they were pregnant before you got them?)
> 
> If you can take clear photos of their genital area we can probably tell you who is the male in your group if there is any so you can isolate him straight away.
> 
> Further advice can be given when you decide what you want to do, do you want to keep them and deal with the litters? Do you have homes to split up the boys at 4 weeks? Are you prepared to house each female in separate cages to give birth if needed?


Thank you for the reply. I didn't realise I would have to house the pregnant females seperately they all seem to be helping the mum? The place where I got them from has told me they will take all babies. I am hoping to take them to Wood Green to be sexed and find the male. JUst waiting to hear back. Do I need to separate all the females?


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## Lilly

It is usually best to put a female in her own container to raise her babies, partly because when the next litter is born they will be a lot smaller than the babies now which will mean they will not be able to compete for the milk and the older litter will get it, also if they try to nurse from the mum that gave birth now her milk will not contain the same nutrients needed for new borns and if it gets too many babies for all the mums or if one of them is a muncher then you may end up with mass mouse murder on your hands.

Personally I would not trust giving the babies back to any place that cannot sex mice and has males and females in together so if another option can be found it might be better.

Also I would say probably do not travel with the heavily pregnant females, if you were travelling much to try to get them sexed. This can stress them out and make them munch the litters or have birth complications.

In your situation I would leave the mum and her babies, take the others out and then if there are any more heavily pregnant looking mice put them in their own little container if you can to give birth.

If you do not have space for this then you can just leave them all in one place but the chances are it will end up with less healthy mice and a possible massacre from the mums.


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> It is usually best to put a female in her own container to raise her babies, partly because when the next litter is born they will be a lot smaller than the babies now which will mean they will not be able to compete for the milk and the older litter will get it, also if they try to nurse from the mum that gave birth now her milk will not contain the same nutrients needed for new borns and if it gets too many babies for all the mums or if one of them is a muncher then you may end up with mass mouse murder on your hands.
> 
> Personally I would not trust giving the babies back to any place that cannot sex mice and has males and females in together so if another option can be found it might be better.
> 
> Also I would say probably do not travel with the heavily pregnant females, if you were travelling much to try to get them sexed. This can stress them out and make them munch the litters or have birth complications.
> 
> In your situation I would leave the mum and her babies, take the others out and then if there are any more heavily pregnant looking mice put them in their own little container if you can to give birth.
> 
> If you do not have space for this then you can just leave them all in one place but the chances are it will end up with less healthy mice and a possible massacre from the mums.


Thank you for all your help. Is it ok to touch the babies then? How will I know who the mum on the next litter may be? It was obvious with this one but all the others seem a bit chubby. But not as obvious as this one. Wood Green have offered to sex them for me tomorrow. I don't want to stress any mice out but need to find the dad. I feel out of my depth here. Will mum be ok with me touching her babies and moving her and them to a new cage?


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## Lilly

I know it can be really overwhelming, thank you for caring about them 

All my mice have been fine with me handling young but I cannot tell you a definite answer, if possible I would say to leave mum where she is and just move the others into another cage.

I would assume that Wood Green may be able to tell you who looks pregnant to them too, if there are non very obviously pregnant you should have some time (Usually obvious when they are really big and you can very clearly see their nipples). Just a bit chubby usually sounds like around a 1-1.5 weeks along (gestation is around 21 days) although with smaller litters could be up to 2 weeks along.

How long ago did you get the mice?

If you want to move mum to a smaller cage rather than leaving her and moving the others I would do it tomorrow at the same time as taking the others to Wood Green. Set up the other cage > put mum in a carrier that is not the new cage or the old one > remove babies to a warm place separate from mum > transfer as much of the nesting area as you can over and then put babies in it > finally put mum there and then leave her in some quiet peaceful spot for a while.


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> I know it can be really overwhelming, thank you for caring about them
> 
> All my mice have been fine with me handling young but I cannot tell you a definite answer, if possible I would say to leave mum where she is and just move the others into another cage.
> 
> I would assume that Wood Green may be able to tell you who looks pregnant to them too, if there are non very obviously pregnant you should have some time (Usually obvious when they are really big and you can very clearly see their nipples). Just a bit chubby usually sounds like around a 1-1.5 weeks along (gestation is around 21 days) although with smaller litters could be up to 2 weeks along.
> 
> How long ago did you get the mice?
> 
> If you want to move mum to a smaller cage rather than leaving her and moving the others I would do it tomorrow at the same time as taking the others to Wood Green. Set up the other cage > put mum in a carrier that is not the new cage or the old one > remove babies to a warm place separate from mum > transfer as much of the nesting area as you can over and then put babies in it > finally put mum there and then leave her in some quiet peaceful spot for a while.


Thank you for all your help. I have had them just over two months. I think it will be easier to move mum to a different cage as the other five will need the space more than her as there are more of them. They have all seemed to be helping out mum. I don't actually even know how many babies there are as I didn't want to disturb them. I will move mum and then the babies so at least I will know how many there are. Will mum be ok separated from the group with just her babies?


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## Lilly

She'll be fine with her litter without the others


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> She'll be fine with her litter without the others


Have moved them now, there are 5 babies. Thanks so much for helping me


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## SarahC

the buck will mate the does again when they give birth so you need to find him ASAP or face the same again in 3 weeks time. :shock:


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## Sally

Well the plot thickens. I have been up to Wood Green to get the mice resexed and they are indeed all girls. The only explanation there is posible is that a wild mice has got into the shed and had his wicked way and got several pregnant. I can't quite believe that can be possible. Does anyone have any experience with this?


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## SarahC

is it not possible for you to post some pics of the girls nether regions?


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## Sally

SarahC said:


> is it not possible for you to post some pics of the girls nether regions?


They were checked by a rodent expert today and thee people yesterday. Definitely all girls.


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## KazzysKritters

Not sure if this is possible, but can mice retain sperm from an earlier breeding?

It's quite common in reptiles. For instance, a female crested gecko only has to be bred to a male once, and she'll lay 2 eggs a month for 7-9 months just on the retained sperm. I only leave my male and female together for about a week, then they are separated the rest of the year.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## SarahC

they cant retain sperm.I'm still skeptical about the wild mouse theory.He came and went without leaving his calling card of sticky wee and poo,squeezed into a cage that other mice can't squeeze out of found utopia but decided not to stay and left without trace.It will be interesting to see what the babies look and behave like.


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## Sally

SarahC said:


> they cant retain sperm.I'm still skeptical about the wild mouse theory.He came and went without leaving his calling card of sticky wee and poo,squeezed into a cage that other mice can't squeeze out of found utopia but decided not to stay and left without trace.It will be interesting to see what the babies look and behave like.


It really is the strangest thing I have ever heard, however I noticed on another rodent site someone was going through exactly the same thing, she now has 31 wild looking babies to find homes for. It is interesting that you said they can retain sperm because two months ago one of my "female" mice escaped outside never to be seen again. Is it possible that he could be the dad even though it was two months ago and the babies have just been born? I am waiting to see what the babies will look like but also mum looks like a wild mouse in colouring so it might not be that easy. I do have another pregnant female who looks ready to give birth any day.


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## Lilly

What is also very confusing is that they did not seem to have been mated with on the same day since only one has given birth so far and although the gestation can range it would usually be in a 3-4 day window absolute max, when you said a few others looked like they were getting chubbier.

While I don't want to doubt the word of a rodent expert I kind of have to agree with SarahC, it really does sound improbable that it was a wild mouse coming back on several different occasions and sperm retention is highly unlikely if not impossible (I have read reports of ones being a week or so later than expected leading to maybe a month after being with a male but to wait 2 months and then have it happen in the winter when its the worst time to have babies is inconceivable and most breeders say it is outright impossible for mice to retain sperm).

Is there any chance you could take photos of the ones that are not obviously very pregnant? Not doubting you but this is one of those things where all situations other than a male in the mix seem so unlikely you've got to see it to truly believe it!


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## Sally

Well it would seem people were right.Today I caught a little mouse jumping off of the cage. On further inspection I found a little nest. It all makes sense because I have two more pregnant mice and if it had been one of mine they would of all had babies around the same time. Hubby has put down a trap.


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## Lilly

That mouse must have had it made! Being able to access a cage with food, water, females and go back to his litter nest to avoid being caught!

That being the case though I would probably not give the babies back to anyone intending them for the pet trade since they are likely to always be wild or need different care. Culling or feeders for rodents/rescue centers etc may be the best route.


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## Viverrinae

What a crazy story indeed! I agree with Lilly though, feeder mice for the babies should be considered.


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## Sally

Is it possible they could of mated through the bars? That has been suggested to me.


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## Lilly

I've heard reports that it is possible but bars on most cages are spaced enough a small wild mouse would be able to get in and out too


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## Sally

I am hoping to catch the mouse in a trap. It's becoming a bit of a nightmare.


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## Lilly

Not sure where you have the cage or your setup but is it possible to put it on a tall stand or possibly put a water moat kind of thing under the cage?


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## Sally

Just went to check the trap and found a extra mouse tucked up asleep with my girls in their bed :shock: couldn't catch him as he was so quick, I found the gap he got out through though. It was where the water bottle is so the wire is a bit wider.


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## KazzysKritters

Sally said:


> Just went to check the trap and found a extra mouse tucked up asleep with my girls in their bed :shock: couldn't catch him as he was so quick, I found the gap he got out through though. It was where the water bottle is so the wire is a bit wider.


What a sneaky little critter! That's crazy. I hope you catch the little booger soon, and good luck with the babies!

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## Sally

KazzysKritters said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just went to check the trap and found a extra mouse tucked up asleep with my girls in their bed :shock: couldn't catch him as he was so quick, I found the gap he got out through though. It was where the water bottle is so the wire is a bit wider.
> 
> 
> 
> What a sneaky little critter! That's crazy. I hope you catch the little booger soon, and good luck with the babies!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thank you, I hope so too


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## Sally

He has been caught.


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## Lilly

Well done, hopefully no more pregnancies.

You will probably want to have the one that gave birth on baby watch too, they can get pregnant immediately after so there is a chance she's pregnant again.


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> Well done, hopefully no more pregnancies.
> 
> You will probably want to have the one that gave birth on baby watch too, they can get pregnant immediately after so there is a chance she's pregnant again.


Thank you. I will keep a close eye on her. If she did have more babies would she be able to feed both litters? Babies are 6 days old today.


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## Lilly

She'll probably wean the first litter early just before she has the others if she is, but it is a bit stressful on them to go through back to back litters, lots of protein to help with milk production and boost her in general 

(Eggs, mealworms, crickets, cooked chicken, break soaked in kitten milk etc)


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> She'll probably wean the first litter early just before she has the others if she is, but it is a bit stressful on them to go through back to back litters, lots of protein to help with milk production and boost her in general
> 
> (Eggs, mealworms, crickets, cooked chicken, break soaked in kitten milk etc)


Thanks so much for your help


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## Sally

When my mouse had the babies I was told to separate her and the babies from the other mice which I have done. My question is when the next two give birth will I need to separate them from the non pregnant females or will they all be ok in together with the babies?


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## Lilly

I'd separate them now if you have enough space to do so, into two separate cages if possible


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## Sally

My second mouse had babies this morning, 7 little ones


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## Sally

Third mouse has had 10 babies this morning.


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## Lilly

That sure is a lot of babies. Good luck with them all!


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> That sure is a lot of babies. Good luck with them all!


Thank you. I am a bit overwhelmed if I am honest. Certainly never in a million years expected anything like this to happen.


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## Lilly

I'm not surprised, I'm a breeder but don't really like having more than 20~ babies at any one time, especially once they hit hopper age!


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## Sally

I am more worried about the males. I know to separate them at 4 weeks but will I be able to keep all the boys together in the same cage from all three litters until I can find homes for them? I know boys are harder to keep together. What age are they likely to start fighting? I really hope I can find homes for them quickly. If they are separated from mum at 4 weeks does that mean I can rehome them at that age too? Sorry for all the questions.


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## Lilly

Ok a first bit here that you're probably not going to like, but IF they are as SarahC said with her (so really wild, never really got tamed) then I would view it as irresponsible to rehome them as pets, unless the person specifically just wants an exhibiting cage or is really prepared for that behaviour.

Anyway when males start fighting is really random, some will fight from 3.5 weeks, others will be fine for life although the normal is when they get sexually mature around 6-8 weeks old. I am unsure if smaller wild mice mature faster, but would imagine they would. Keeping them together past weaning is a risk, it may be fine and then suddenly you have a blood bath on your hands with no rhyme or reason to it. Cleaning out is generally a challenge too with buck groups from my experience, its when they all try to re-establish their scents.

You can rehome when you split at weaning, although some people like to keep the females with mum for an extra week.


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## Sally

Lilly said:


> Ok a first bit here that you're probably not going to like, but IF they are as SarahC said with her (so really wild, never really got tamed) then I would view it as irresponsible to rehome them as pets, unless the person specifically just wants an exhibiting cage or is really prepared for that behaviour.
> 
> Anyway when males start fighting is really random, some will fight from 3.5 weeks, others will be fine for life although the normal is when they get sexually mature around 6-8 weeks old. I am unsure if smaller wild mice mature faster, but would imagine they would. Keeping them together past weaning is a risk, it may be fine and then suddenly you have a blood bath on your hands with no rhyme or reason to it. Cleaning out is generally a challenge too with buck groups from my experience, its when they all try to re-establish their scents.
> 
> You can rehome when you split at weaning, although some people like to keep the females with mum for an extra week.


Thank you for your reply. I have had lots of offers of homes from several rescues. I am just hoping they stick to their word. Unfortunately most are some distance from me. I spoke to the rodent expert at Wood Green animal shelter and he seemed to think with plenty of handling they should be fine. He said they could most likely take any girls. I am planning to keep several girls myself. I guess it is impossible to say whether or not they will be tame enough to keep. I am due to split the boys at Christmas time which is going to make things even more difficult as most places will be shut. I hope things work out otherwise I don't know what I will do. Thanks again for all your help.


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