# Dead babies inside of female, never born?



## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

Recently, one of my friends brought a pregnant mouse in need of a home to me (the mouse used to be a pet kept with other mice and cared for by some kids she babysits). Since I do not know the mouse's history, she is currently living alone in quarantine. She looked like she was close to giving birth when she was brought to me, and I made all the arrangements I could to keep her comfy. She began the nesting behavior as expected, but a week later.. she has not given birth. It appears to me that the babies have actually died inside her.. her belly seems to hang low and is "mooshy" feeling. Also, she smells like.. dead/possibly rotting tissue now.  I have never encountered a situation like this before. The mousie is still wide-eyed and alert (moreso today, oddly) and is eating, drinking, pooing and peeing normally.

However, she appears now close to being emaciated - her little hips bulge out and it feels like you can feel every one of her vertebrae. However, her belly is still extremely round, squishy, and the area is clearly painful for her.

Her vagina area started getting crusty today, so I've been gently wiping it with warm water every so often. When I do so, her vagina seems to actually open and the opening appears larger than it should be. :|

Do any of you have experience with this situation? If so, do you think there is a chance she could be saved? I want to bring her to a vet, but I just don't know if at this point it would be worth the time and anything could be done to help. Any suggestions you have would be wonderful!


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

It sounds like there was some reason she could not give birth, possibly a baby caught in the birth canal, and it resulted in none of them being born and all of them dying in her uterus. I've never witnessed this myself, but it has certainly happened before. The smell is likely the babies decaying in her body and she has probably gone septic (an infection throughout her body).....she probably in a great deal of pain and the kindest thing for her would be euthanasia.

When something like this happens there are a couple options, but they really should be instituted as soon as it is clear something is wrong.....euthanasia to prevent suffering, oral antibiotics the moment it is clear that something has gone awry and hoping that it prevent infection, or surgury (spay) in combination with antibiotics. Spaying usually isn't much of an option...very expensive and risky in "normal" circumstances if you can even find a vet who can do it....let alone the risks involved with an already compromised doe.


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## Kallan (Aug 16, 2009)

What Stina said  You could try a spay, but I doubt she would survive surgery  It's a tricky enough op in a cat/dog/cow, let alone somethign so small


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

Could it be Pyometra? I had a cat with this once. She looked pregnant (and she may have been) but she started to discharge a lot of pus.


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## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

I would defenately put her to sleep if she was mine. you could take her to a vet if you want to try to save her, but I honestly think its too late. Poor thing


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## thekylie (Mar 6, 2010)

I had this happen to a mouse a few months ago. I'm not sure what the cause was, but she did just what you said, going along with her pregnancy fine, and then after her due date her belly got drooped and mushy, and she rapidly lost a bunch of weight. I put her to sleep as soon as it was obvious something was wrong, so she didn't get a smell, but she was definitely very sick.


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## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

Thanks everyone, I was thinking the same thing.. 

thekylie, that sounds just like what has happened to this little one. To clarify, she does not have an infected smell, it is definitely a decay smell.  I wish I knew more about when she got pregnant and even how old she is or if she has had a litter before, but I do not since she wasn't mine until recently.

Update on her status for now: she has started eating a lot more, and is suddenly drinking a lot more as well. Her eyes are brighter and she appears to have more energy. She's even grooming herself and eating with her little hands.

However, her belly is still all saggy and it doesn't look like anything of substance has come out of her (and the decay smell is still there). This is so hard because even though I know she's probably suffering to at least some degree and just not showing it, the dramatic improvement in energy and desire to eat and drink a lot has me all in a dilemma now. I think I will give her one more night so that she can enjoy eating and such.

AnnB, I'm looking up Pyometra right now since I'm not familiar with it, but I can say for certain that there is no pus coming out of the little mousey. The little bit of liquid that did come out was serosanguineous looking and seemed not to have a smell itself at all. :|


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## Kallan (Aug 16, 2009)

The cervix has to be open for you to see foul discharge in a pyo. If it's closed you won't see very much at all


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

the fact that its not draining is worse than if it was........


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

What discharge would you see with a pyo?


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Pyometra may or may not drain. A closed pyometra is when the cervix is not open, and so it does not drain........it is incredibly painful and pretty much always fatal if nothing is done. An open pyometra is a draining pyometra with the cervix open and you will discharge. Discharge from a mouse's vagina is NEVER normal....but an open pyometra is MUCH less dangerous/deadly than a closed one as the fluid has somewhere to go. In a closed pyo the fluid just builds and builds until something gives.....


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

how can you tell? I have a couple of girls with fatter abdomens, they are older...but their mom died from abdomen tumor so her stomach was large too when she passed. My two girls now feel squishy and have little tiny bit of clear discharge. Otherwise normal behavior. Should i get on some general antibiotic? Take to the vets? I just don't know if it's pyo or a tumor somewhere like mom.

EDIT! I do not mean to hyjack this thread, but if there is something wrong with my mice, I would like to know! I am worried! Today I noticed the discharge was milky, so I did start them on Doxy water...if I need to do anything else I would do it, so let me know.


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## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

*tinyhartmouseries*
- No worries, hyjack away. 

Thank you all for this information! I put the little mousie to sleep a couple of days ago and have yet to do an autopsy on her. I will update upon any discoveries.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

If you do autopsy, do so in a deeper pan than you think you need. In highschool, we autopsied rats who had apparently been pregnant at the time of euthenasia, a fact not taken into account by the company that preserved them. Suffice to say, the liquid/mush in their uterii made a terrible mess. It was fun to look at under microscope, though! Very interesting stuff.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, I would expect a mess...

I am glad you decided to end her suffering.


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## maisymouse (Feb 10, 2011)

I have a doe that gave birth a few weeks ago, she abandoned the babies but every few hours another one would pop out, afterwards it was clear there was still a baby left inside her, she lost weight but soon afterwards picked up and has gained weight, she eats and drinks, looks healthy, there is no smell from her but the shape on the side of her tummy is still there


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## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

Laigaie, oh wow, I bet that was fascinating!

Stina, upon autopsy, there was surprisingly little mess. It turns out I couldn't even find an indication of pregnancy at all - instead I found 5 very large, cartilaginous adhesions in her small intestine. Yes, I autopsy her extremely carefully and made sure that what I was seeing was not an enlarged fallopian tube or anything. It would have been messy if I had ruptured the intestines, though. The adhesions had to have allowed some stool to get through because she seemed to be pooping normally, albeit smaller sized poo. My guess is that she did have some hormonal fluctuations and maybe even was pregnant at one time, but surprisingly this looked to be nothing like pyometra.

Maisymouse, that is so odd. I would think any baby left inside would poison her if it were not absorbed. I know it's a lot more common for mice to develop tumors after they give birth due to the hormones, but let's hope it's not that.


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