# BIS NMC breeders variety picture guides



## Loganberry

As I and other NMC breeders frequently get asked the same questions about our varieties, i decided it would be a good idea for NMC exhibitors that have enjoyed success with their mice to post picture guides to their different varieties on this forum, to help those with questions.

This is not to be a definitive guide to every variety shown in the NMC - it is just to showcase what our mice look like, and what these varieties can look like, in terms of size, type, colour, different shades, faults, heads, tail sets etc.

Here are the rules, with explanations on why, where appropriate:

1 - Only NMC JUDGES who have won a section, BOA in section, BIS or BOA in show with that variety can post on that variety. The reason some level of achievement and experience with a variety is required is so new or interested people can use the pictures as a guide to what is a good example of a particular variety. if you'd like to show your mice generally, post it in New and Existing Mice. (The pix don't have to be of the winning mouse/mice - they just need to be what you know to be good stock from your lines.)

2 - Head each new thread with details of any/most recent/all wins you have had/can remember with that variety, to show credentials.

3 - Each new thread is to contain pics only on one variety, so you can split cinnamons from agoutis and satins from normal coats.

4 - Please include pictures of the variety from all angles - head on, top, sides, unders - and feel free to annotate to highlight certain points, ie, lines under on pale selfs, demarcation lines on tans, tan hairs on vents on blacks. And pix of the variety in baby and adult coats is useful where appropriate - ie, argentes starting off one colour and getting darker.

5 - Readers are free to comment on the threads and ask questions or whatever, but no cutsey wootsey ickle wickle meecicles comments will be appreciated or required. Sensible comments only.

The end!


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## Loganberry

So, i thought picture guides from the following people would be good (if you're up for it!):

SarahC - brokens, reds and fawns and anything else you have! cham tans?
Phil A - blacks and creams (not sure what you have now, actually!)
Sam I - silvers, ivories, chams, PEWs (hurry up and win with those agoutis!)
Me - chams, PEWs, argentes, cham tans

That's as far as i've got - any other winning NMC judges are welcome of course. Maybe if one breeders done a thread on one variety, say creams, and someone else wants to add pix of their winners, they can - probably good not to have multiple threads on the same variety, keep it all together.

What do you think?

Maybe - Dom? - we could have a new heading for this so they stay in one place and dont get lost - NMC BIS picture guides, or something?


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## Matt Haslam

well create the thread and we''ll edit it to look great and make it a sticky!

nice idea btw very kind of you guys to share this stuff with the masses


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## Loganberry

Thanks shiprat! that would be great.

The only reason i've not posted pix before is because i am not really into the stuff that comes under point 5, above. But i think pictures is a good way to show a lot of people what we've got, and to answer a lot of the common questions that get asked (ie, what is the right colour for a cham/silver/cream/argente!).


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## Seawatch Stud

Very good idea. A onestop shop for how a variety should look according to NMC standards. Endorsed by NMC judges, excellent. This should be a big help to those starting up and/or improving a variety. I hope this will encourage some people to switch from breeding "pet" mice to "show" mice.


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## Matt Haslam

Loganberry said:


> Thanks shiprat! that would be great.
> 
> The only reason i've not posted pix before is because i am not really into the stuff that comes under point 5, above. But i think pictures is a good way to show a lot of people what we've got, and to answer a lot of the common questions that get asked (ie, what is the right colour for a cham/silver/cream/argente!).


too right, what we want is the top breeders of their respective varieties to post pics of what the variety should be and a little right up of it.

like i said post them, i'll organise them into a sticky thread that no one can comment on; this creates a reference thread, then we can have a comments thread seperately with a strict rule of no 'ooo thats a nice mouse' 'cute mouse' replies! 

this is the best way i have seen this sort of thing done before on forums.


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## Wight Isle Stud

Cracking idea, A winners gallery constructed by qualified persons,it will be a valuable source of reference.As an Ex-NMC judge and previously a very active member of the fancy,I am looking forward to my re-emergence into the Fancy thanks to the kindness of old friends. This will help me greatly to see whats out there at the moment. I am the holder of Walter Maxeys original scrapbook, and there can be no argument that a Supreme champion dutch in those days would nowadays not even be good enough for breeding from. Its about time we showed the modern standards of winning mice, as lets face it, most of the photos out there of Exhibition mice are probably 30 years old now . (except for on this forum ).


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## SarahC

I'll be back. said:


> I am the holder of Walter Maxeys originalscrapbook,


I thought I quite liked you,but now I find I don't,you and your scrap book,Philip and his spoons :mrgreen:


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## Wight Isle Stud

SarahC said:


> I'll be back. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am the holder of Walter Maxeys originalscrapbook,
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I quite liked you,but now I find I don't,you and your scrap book,Philip and his spoons :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Would you possibly forgive me long enough to tell me how to put a photograph on when replying to a thread ? after that I will tell you what else I have got lol x x x


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## Loganberry

I'll be back. said:


> I am the holder of Walter Maxeys original scrapbook, and there can be no argument that a Supreme champion dutch in those days would nowadays not even be good enough for breeding from. Its about time we showed the modern standards of winning mice, as lets face it, most of the photos out there of Exhibition mice are probably 30 years old now . (except for on this forum ).


That's a really interesting point. In fact, until I was able to get to more shows and hang out with Phil and co, I had to rely on hand-drawn cartoon-style pictures in 1970s books to try and figure out what I was interested in, and what it should look like.

There aren't any big breeders near me, so my learning curve was long and frustrating - I'd been breeding silvers for about a year before anyone mentioned lines under, and by then they all had massive belly slashes - looked like they were wearing zip-up costumes. It was only a year ago that someone pointed out that the eyes on my mice appeared to be shrinking, because i wasn't selecting for large eyes.

It's these smaller details that you need someone to stand in front of you with a mouse and point at, and say 'oi' - you can't get that out of the books that are currently available. This new thread could be an inbetween stage, from 1970s text book, to being there in person.


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## Wight Isle Stud

Obviously the photographs of the winners will not be able to show the minor faults that will often split the red cards to uncarded, however, they will certainly go a huge distance towards the points you make ! In my stud All my records were based on faults, that way I could judge progess, now we have digital cameras Its all on CDS.


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## Loganberry

The pix used in the threads do not have to be the winning mice, if they're not available. They can be of a selection of mice from a winning strain, and the breeder, as a winner, will be able to explain what's good and what's not in the pix. Winning with a variety gives the person doing the post the qualifications to be able to say, this is right, this is wrong, you know?

Also, I find that with, say, my cham satins, the judge gets it down to the best 2-3, and then picks the winner of the class based on colour, which is about personal taste. That's why the threads nned to show the different colours too.

Rather than just faults though, this is about showing good examples of a variety. Speaking of which, i'd better shut up and get down to the garage and take some pix!


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## WillowDragon

I think it would be a very good idea to post pics of faults as well as good examples.

And like you Heather, I didn't know about the line under thing until a while after i started breeding for show, it held me back for quite a while! lol

K xx


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## Wight Isle Stud

your absolutely right, the photographs will show the benchmark.


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## Wight Isle Stud

Willow !! how do I post a pic on a reply ?


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## WillowDragon

You can either upload the pictures to something like Photobucket and then copy and paste the URL to the pic with [img*] [/img*] (Take the stars out) around it... or you can click the proper reply button (Not the quick reply box at the bottom of the thread and attach a picture on there


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## SarahC

I'll be back. said:


> SarahC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be back. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am the holder of Walter Maxeys originalscrapbook,
> 
> 
> 
> after that I will tell you what else I have got lol x x x
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

hmm.Have you read the forum guide?

Personally I use this site, suitable for dummies, so if the cap fits http://tinypic.com/

For a start, insert the device thats storing your picture into your pc (e.g your memory stick/SD card). It should show up in the 'My Computer' area looking something like this -









After your device is installed, visit http://www.tinypic.com. There should be a button to click called 'browse', click this, and then locate the picture you want to upload on your computer, and select it and press ok -

















After you've done this, click 'upload' on the tinypic site, and then proceed through the steps until you get the image code -









All you need to do is copy and paste this IMG code into the post you want to make, and when you submit your post, the image will appear.


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## Loganberry

That's a demo and a half! Nice!

So Sarah! You like this idea? Can you do some threads, and if so, what varieties? (Say yes, you know you want to!!! :gwavebw )


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## Wight Isle Stud

Thanks mate- I will see if I can do it. regards Techno idiot. Gotta beat loganberry before she gets back from the garage, you do like me really dont you x xx


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## The secret garden

Fantastic idea, I will ask Phils assistance here as i have no camera at the moment.

I have shown Willow Dragon good mice before Via web cam, infact i think she watched me clean out my entire stud lol.


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## Wight Isle Stud

Hah- Done it me well proud. Here is one of Seawatches previous winners........... ( I am gonna pay for that as well )- just shows how we have progressed.


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## WillowDragon

The secret garden said:


> Fantastic idea, I will ask Phils assistance here as i have no camera at the moment.
> 
> I have shown Willow Dragon good mice before Via web cam, infact i think she watched me clean out my entire stud lol.


Yeah, that was really cool!! Got a good view of other things too  :lol: :lol:


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## WillowDragon

That pics a bit teeny Gary, hard to see well, unless its just me with my bad eyes!


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## The secret garden

WillowDragon said:


> The secret garden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic idea, I will ask Phils assistance here as i have no camera at the moment.
> 
> I have shown Willow Dragon good mice before Via web cam, infact i think she watched me clean out my entire stud lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that was really cool!! Got a good view of other things too  :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

You cheeky little mare!


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## Wight Isle Stud

WillowDragon said:


> That pics a bit teeny Gary, hard to see well, unless its just me with my bad eyes!


Look, I have only just managed the electronic doorbell, let alone actually posting photographs that anyone can see, one step at a time. P.S. help - advice required as i know yoy are a technobrillant, as opposed to me being a technoidiot.


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## WillowDragon

The secret garden said:


> WillowDragon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The secret garden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic idea, I will ask Phils assistance here as i have no camera at the moment.
> 
> I have shown Willow Dragon good mice before Via web cam, infact i think she watched me clean out my entire stud lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that was really cool!! Got a good view of other things too  :lol: :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cheeky little mare!
Click to expand...

Hehe... you know you luuurve me! And for the benefit of others, it wasn't as rude as i made it sound LOL


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## The secret garden

Yeah, that was really cool!! Got a good view of other things too  :lol: :lol:[/quote]

You cheeky little mare![/quote]

Hehe... you know you luuurve me! And for the benefit of others, it wasn't as rude as i made it sound LOL[/quote]

lololol I have that top on now actually


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## WillowDragon

> lololol I have that top on now actually


Woo! Get the webcam out! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## The secret garden

PMSL!!!stop it we are serious mouse fanciers, when Phils see's this he is going to give me so much shite lol.


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## WillowDragon

Yes... sorry *ah hem* Very serious now...

Other serious mouse breeding people... please continue...


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## Loganberry

You two - cool it!!!!! Sheesh!!!


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## WNTMousery

What are the requirements to become an NMC judge?


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## SarahY

Awesome idea Heather! Can't wait to study everyone's threads! 

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon

Loganberry said:


> You two - cool it!!!!! Sheesh!!!


  Sooorry Heather


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## The secret garden

WNTMousery said:


> What are the requirements to become an NMC judge?


You need to be a established fancier for 3 years plus, and be able to produce and regonise winners.


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## Loganberry

And have the ok and recognition of the other NMC judges and executive council, to be voted in.


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## SarahC

I'll be back. said:


> Thanks mate- I will see if I can do it. regards Techno idiot. Gotta beat loganberry before she gets back from the garage, you do like me really dont you x xx


I have a 16 year old son to help me else I wouldn't manage.


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## SarahC

Loganberry said:


> So Sarah! You like this idea? Can you do some threads, and if so, what varieties? (Say yes, you know you want to!!! :gwavebw )


Something else new and fresh.Yes great .


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## Seawatch Stud

Willow....Sam..dont make me speak sternly to you!! If you want to play do so on another thread, one where you can ooh and aah over pics of puppies n babies or something. Leave this thread for grown-ups.


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## DomLangowski

Seawatch Stud said:


> Willow....Sam..dont make me speak sternly to you!! If you want to play do so on another thread, one where you can ooh and aah over pics of puppies n babies or something. Leave this thread for grown-ups.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## DomLangowski

Shiprat said:


> well create the thread and we''ll edit it to look great and make it a sticky!
> 
> nice idea btw very kind of you guys to share this stuff with the masses


Instead of a thread maybe create a new section with forums, that way you could have the picture locked at the top (sticky) and then the forum would be open for questions of comments?


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## Matt Haslam

nice idea Dom. you offering to do that  ?


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## DomLangowski

Shiprat said:


> nice idea Dom. you offering to do that  ?


Dont mind mate, just need to know what im doing layout wise, ill have a tinkle later or you cn if you want. we can always edit it later. Would be good to get a few photo's to start with.


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## Matt Haslam

ye we need a few piccies first


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## Loganberry

Hey guys - I can do cham satin piccies in the next couple of days - shall i just let you guys know when i've got them ready? Or will there be somewhere to post them?

(Thanks loads for your enthusiastic response to this, by the way!)


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## Wight Isle Stud

I have put one on in a new thread to get this going-BIS Argente. A new board index sounds the best idea.


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## Matt Haslam

Loganberry said:


> Hey guys - I can do cham satin piccies in the next couple of days - shall i just let you guys know when i've got them ready? Or will there be somewhere to post them?
> 
> (Thanks loads for your enthusiastic response to this, by the way!)


as long as you post them somewhere on the forum, doesn't matter where, we can get them and put them in the right place.


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## Loganberry

ok, great!


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## tom95

I think this is a great idea, I am always very curious how look mice which win the shows in the UK.
I am looking forward to watch photos and read threads about your best, winning mice !


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## DomLangowski

Ok, I created the section, have a look and let me know if anything needs changing, also moved a few other forums around


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## Loganberry

That is brilliant! Thanks Dom!

Would you also be able to take my first message in this thread and post it above the BIS argente thread in the new section, titled Rules of Posting Here or something, and lock it? So it stays at the top but everyone can see it? Thanks again, in advance!


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## DomLangowski

Hows that?


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## Loganberry

Brill! Nice one Dom  Thanks! I'll get something on there this weekend.


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