# Blue?! Blue!



## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

I did it! I *finally* got Blues! ...But they came from a very unexpected source. My satin Dove Tan doe and satin Blue Tan buck. I thought for sure I'd get Black and Dove, but out pops Blue!

The litter had 12 in total, but last night I culled to 8. I took out the obvious Blacks (I already have too many!) and most of the bucks. So I'm left with a Blue doe, Blue buck and 6 others that I think may be Dove... but since I got Blues in this litter, I figured it's possible to get Silver, right? So I might even have Silver in there.

Mom:










Dad:










And the babies...

Blue doe and buck:










The other bubs (all have pink eyes, and all but one are pied):










With that brownish 'hue' on the babies that the flash produces in the second picture, it makes me think they'll be Dove. In fact, I'm almost certain they'll all be Dove, but I'm crossing my fingers _just in case_. If they had black eyes, they'd be like light Blues.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Awww I miss having blue around. I'm hoping I'll see it again.  Love that silvery pale blue!


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

Ever since I got into mouse breeding, I've been trying for Blues, so this was a very good surprise! Blue is one of my top favorite varieties, next to Cream and Chocolate. I've only ever owned four Blue mice, two were does I had a few months ago, but ended up losing them due to a horrible cold draft when I had my mice downstairs... so now I've got two Blue Tan males. One satin and one standard. I'm ecstatic to not only have Blue, but a Blue female, too! So now my next goal is Cream... after I get my Agouti x Blue Tan babies to come along and then age up, to be bred back to dad... I'm also aiming for Blue Agouti.

Any idea on the pied babies?


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## Rodentman (Feb 18, 2013)

Good work, they look like beautiful babies


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## nataliew (Feb 2, 2013)

aww they are cute keep us posted with pictures as they grow


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

In those pink eyed ones the 2 on the right do seem a lot lighter than the ones on the left, if they really are lighter you may have dove and silver, certainly possible. 
There all looking good


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

Checking on them today, some of the pieds really are looking a lot paler in color than their siblings. Really hoping I have Silver, as that would open up even more breeding opportunities for me. I still can't get over the fact that I have Blue, finally...


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

I've been looking for blues everywhere in petstores around here, but so far they've eluuuuded me :lol:

did see a really pretty broken blue doe *once* but didn't snag her in time, when I went back she was gone :roll:

congrats on your blues


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

GibblyGiblets said:


> I've been looking for blues everywhere in petstores around here, but so far they've eluuuuded me :lol:
> 
> did see a really pretty broken blue doe *once* but didn't snag her in time, when I went back she was gone :roll:
> 
> congrats on your blues


Where in the US are you?


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Silver would be lovely too.  You're making me want to breed my next litter way sooner than I should/can. : P The one I have "in the oven" can't create silver (to my knowledge anyway).


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

Two more pictures of the little ones... plus mama Jazz, and nanny Nymh.

The small bins that the bubs and does are in, are strictly for birthing and raising the babies until they are 2.5 weeks.
They DO have mesh wiring to allow more air flow, but you don't see it in the pictures I cropped. 

Babies and Nymh's butt... lol










Everyone:










After taking that last picture, I noticed Jazz's eyes looked a little funny. I went back to check her over, and they're fine. 
Not sure why it looks all red around her eyes in the pic, but there's nothing there.

I use aspen shavings, ripped up paper towels (non-print and non-scented), and timothy hay.


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Looks like blue, silver, and dove in satin and standard.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Gotta love those hidden recessives, eh?


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

All of the babies are satin, as both of the parents are.  
I know I definitely see Dove in the litter, now. Still hoping the ones I think are Silver really are Silver.


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Okay then. Are you found of satin?


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

I definitely am! I especially like the satin on lighter-colored mice. Satin black is lovely, but often hard to tell from standard, in my opinion. Same kind of goes with Chocolate, although it's easier to tell if a Chocolate mouse is satin or not when it's older.


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Seems like I'm the only one who hates satin... I think it looks, unnatural and unhealthy looking. Well bred exhibition satins look okay, though I still prefer standard.

If you're having difficulties telling if a mouse is satin or standard, you can look at their teeth - satins have white teeth, standards have yellow.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

TwitchingWhiskers - I was under the impression most breeders dis-liked satin. Having seen some of the ill looking versions, I can also see how that could look extra unhealthy. I think I feel that way about pied mice, even though I know there are healthy, well-bred versions. I just have no experience with those.

Nice looking babies, good that you have your blue, congrats! (Glad that you like the satin, as well.  )


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I love the appearance of satin. But it's a huge pain in the butt trying to figure out what colours they are sometimes. Not to mention photographing them. I'm not particularly huge on pied either.

I'm positively drooling over these colours. My two blues were a bit mealy when they grew up but they started darker.


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## Pandapop (Jul 27, 2012)

I haven't had any ill satins turn up in my litters (yet... knock-on-wood) so I really have no reason to dislike it. I love how the satin coats make my mice look nice and vibrant. As for pied, I'm a little 50-50 on that one. Some pieds look really nice, but I see way too many of them. I think I just prefer self over pied. I really love brindles, too. Most of my brindles haven't had that obesity problem, thank goodness. I have a satin brindle buck right now who is coming around 4 weeks of age any day now, and he's really something. The brindling is black but his main coat color is more of a recessive yellow, I think...

My two adult Blue Tan bucks are mealy. I thought the father of this litter was almost silvered, honestly. Just turns out he had too many white hairs, and the satin really made it show. My other buck isn't satin and his color is very mealy. I'm hoping these two babies turn out nice, and give me something to work with.


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Has anyone heard of a disease/condition that satin babies can get? I remember reading something like that a while ago, but I don't have the details.

The mealiness in my pet type blues is the main reason I'm giving up the dream of blue self, I'll be doing blue varie instead.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

TwitchingWhiskers said:


> Has anyone heard of a disease/condition that satin babies can get? I remember reading something like that a while ago, but I don't have the details.
> 
> The mealiness in my pet type blues is the main reason I'm giving up the dream of blue self, I'll be doing blue varie instead.


I've read of inbred satin babies potentially having anemia but I don't know the science behind it, or if it's truly a thing. A few people here would swear by it. I've got F3 on the way with satin and will certainly post if I see any issues with the babies. So far the only deformity I've seen was in my first litter (not inbred) with a runt with a kinked tail.

I currently have a satin long haired buck from a feeder bin whose tail is awfully skinny and his skin is rather pale but I don't know if that's due to his pied feature and mass production background or actually tied to his satin genotype.


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## Runaway Mousery (Jul 5, 2012)

There are no specific diseases associated with satin. However, the satin gene has been associated with having a poorer immune system, and satins within some lines tend to be slightly smaller than their standard coated counterparts. With proper breeding practices it is usually not an issue.


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Seafolly said:


> TwitchingWhiskers said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone heard of a disease/condition that satin babies can get? I remember reading something like that a while ago, but I don't have the details.
> ...


I'm glad I'm not breeding for satin, so I shouldn't have to deal with any issues. I hope your mouse is okay!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Just following up.  I have had five satin litters (all inbred) and so far so good. The little mouse I mentioned only lived about 7 months but I believe that had more to do with his crappy background (feeder bin source, and very ill-kept).


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Satins come from different experiments in mutating via radiation or other agent. Think about it. Outcrossing to a good healthy standard coat of a compatible color group/marking group/dilution factor group does wonders unless you want to do it like the English breeders have done.

I have always thought that heterozygous meeces give the healthiest babies overall, though the epistatic features tend to vary from generation to generation, cycling in what looks to me to be a semipredictable fashion. It does interesting things, that's for sure.

Satins have an overall deficit of many systems causing such things as anemia, problems assimilating food, an overall lack of vitality in general. Babies that are small and have the thin bumpy tail don't usually like long, and very rarely live an ordinary lifespan.


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