# Tan Tips?



## Lilly_C (Jun 11, 2016)

Hey-ho, from Australia! 

I'm looking for some tan breeding advice, or links to good information. The closest I've gotten is Finnmouse's website, who made this comment: "Black tans (as well as other tanned varieties) can have a beautiful fiery belly with only one black and tan gene a't (being heterozygous for a). This is possible by building up proper modifying genes."
But they fail to mention what genes actually would modify and improve the richness of the belly. And though a friendly breeder suggested improving Fawn's (The Red/Fawn mice here in Aus are as poor as the tans...) first and then introducing that into a tan line, I'm unsure if that's the whole story? Am I best to simply, selectively breed black (or choc?) tans towards the desired colour? What are your opinions?

I'm essentially starting from scratch here, and am not sure where is the best starting point!
Thanks guys.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

I think you're thinking too laterally about this. What do you have, black tans? If you have black tans then you will have 2 copies of the tan gene (at/at) and the very best way to improve the tan towards the firey tan we like for showing, is to breed the mice to either a better black tan or breed the mice with the best tan each round. There is nothing better than tan, to improve tan (in my opinion). Black tan, can of course, carry other genes such as blue or choc (and therefore lilac) but none of these will help the effort towards a better tan.

Harder, is what I have..... Agouti tan, which CAN only possess one tan gene but is still adjudged as being able to achieve the same tan as the selfs (which can possess two tan genes) so struggles on the bench to win.


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## Lilly_C (Jun 11, 2016)

Thanks WoodWitch, I thought it was going to be as simple as you say, until I got tangled up in reading facebook pages etc... as you say probably just too much thinking, haha.
Thanks very much for your input, I'm new to it all so appreciate the help in direction.  I'm going to try the KISS principle - keep it simple stupid!


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Simple, yes. Easy, afraid not :lol:

That is the best way to perfect tans but it would be a very lengthy process with no better black tans to work with. Anything else you put in will have repercussions. You would never use a pale tan (cham, silver etc) as you would wreck the black. If you use choc/blue tand you will get further chocs/blues and the black will dilute towards the blue/choc shade instead of being dense, lustrous black. You could use a black self but that would set the tan back. So, you see, better black tans or persevere is best.

Others may hold a different opinion, this is only one opinion 

I've been breeding my agouti tans for years and they're still a way off. Labour of love <3


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## Lilly_C (Jun 11, 2016)

I can imagine it's a very, very long road. Somebody else on here mentioned a friend had been breeding tan's for 10 years and their results are barely half way to the vibrant european tan's. But if nobody works on it, it's never going to happen right? I admit I've had second thoughts, as somebody who's new to mice (though I have experience with show rabbits) it might be a little overwhelming, but they are my favourite colour and I do like a good challenge, if nothing else! Might keep a smaller project or two on the side so I don't feel like I'm not getting anywhere. 

I bet your Agouti Tan's will be well worth the work you put in!


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

I actually wrote an article in the NMC news recently, about different types of mouser: Type 1, they purely want to win and require a variety that is well established, uniform and can get them the win. Type 2, they enjoy a project, delayed gratification. I am a type 2 fancier, you probably are too.

No pain, no gain. Work on you tans and show us your progress


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