# First Litter!



## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

My litter was on the third of this month. THey were 10 babies  
I had to cull down to 4 tho, since I am breeding for type. They all look healthy! such cuties!


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

Although I don't agree with culling I will tell you something I have read in a few places.
5-6 is the best number because 3 can have trouble with the mum producing milk and I could imagine 4 could also.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Four is the perfect number, but even one or two babies will thrive. If the dam can't produce milk, it's a fault that needs to be bred out


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

I've researched and 4 is the most efficient for the babies, if they're 6 the babies do not get enough


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## Miceandmore64 (Jul 16, 2013)

They survive with 10 babies so no 6 is not to much. I don't cull and had does have 8 and 9 they were fine and the offspring grew up healthy.


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## rocketmdove (Feb 8, 2014)

Miceandmore64 said:


> They survive with 10 babies so no 6 is not to much. I don't cull and had does have 8 and 9 they were fine and the offspring grew up healthy.


I dont want to start an argument, but I had a litter I did cull, and one i didnt so I could compare. The litter I had culled down out grew the other within the first two weeks even though the litter I didnt cull, was two weeks older and being weaned. I saw improvents in the culled litter in not only size too, but health as well. the litter i didnt cull is weak. Their fur is more scruffy, their bones are thin and dont have a good weight on them. Their tails show dehydration as if they arent getting enough milk, closed eyes after 2 weeks, ect. The litter I did cull down never showed any dehydration problems, they opened their eyes early, grew faster, an just in general fat in healthy. this is just my observation and everone is entitled to their own opinion.


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## Agoutigoo (Nov 8, 2013)

mine from my litter of 9 are wisps of mice, the does r only about 36g at the moment, whereas my does from a litter of 5 were 45-50 grams at this point and all hold adult weights of 55-60g. Large litters may 'survive' but i prefer my mice to thrive, culling for me offers my litters the best chance of survival and the ability to become large robust mice as adults.


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## Apex (Apr 12, 2014)

Very interesting read! Definitely they do their most growing when little so it makes sense if you want to end up with large adult mice to cull down and have fat healthy fast growing baby mice!


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

Miceandmore64 said:


> They survive with 10 babies so no 6 is not to much. I don't cull and had does have 8 and 9 they were fine and the offspring grew up healthy.


Sice I'm breeding for quality, an only have pet mice, I must cull to improve


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## Tally (Nov 27, 2013)

BlackSelf said:


> Miceandmore64 said:
> 
> 
> > They survive with 10 babies so no 6 is not to much. I don't cull and had does have 8 and 9 they were fine and the offspring grew up healthy.
> ...


What bothers me here is the "must cull" thing.
Specially for health.
I don't cull and have litters between 11 and 14 normaly. I only had one lose of pups in one litter and the rest in this litter all developed well.
None of my mice have any fur problems. 
And they are healthy.
I can't compare the size since I don't have show typs. And of curse a smaller litter grew faster, but I wouldn't say culling is the only way to get healty mice.

How ever, the culling discussion wasn't really the topic of this treat so, how are your mice?
And when do we get photos?


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

Tally said:


> What bothers me here is the "must cull" thing.
> Specially for health.
> I don't cull and have litters between 11 and 14 normaly. I only had one lose of pups in one litter and the rest in this litter all developed well.
> None of my mice have any fur problems.
> ...


Tally you are absolutely right, but as we see in nature most babies do not survive under normal conditions. by culling I provide more milk for the babies, which they would normally not have, and by doing so I provide them with better resistances to sickness. Now thats a little 
fftopic so, The pics will be up by tomorrow. I just had to get my high def cam from my father's which I have now.


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

The two bucks.









The two does.









Suspected REW









Better Doe pics


















Bucks


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## mich (Sep 28, 2013)

I thought you only culled when the kittens were undersized and no good for breeding or showing?


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## Apex (Apr 12, 2014)

Pics aren't working  Would love to see them!


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

they're working on my other pc... oh well... will fix asap
and @mich my mice are not show quality, so culling improves size


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## Tally (Nov 27, 2013)

BlackSelf said:


> they're working on my other pc... oh well...
> and @mich my mice are show quality, so culling improves size


Now I'm a little iritated. Isn't this litter from Rapunzel and Prince, your petshop mice?

(besides pictures are working well on my computer. I'm using firefox, so if this is a browser problem)


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

im sorry, at the time, i was not paying attention to what I typed, what I meant is that they are *NOT* Also please lets stay on topic, If this keeps up I might just give up, I joined this forum for people to tell me their opinions about my mice, and show the progress to others, I did not join it for people to criticize, or question the ways I do my breeding, also this topic is about my first mice, not culling, not how to breed. Please let's stay on topic...


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## Tally (Nov 27, 2013)

BlackSelf said:


> im sorry, at the time, i was not paying attention to what I typed, what I meant is that they are *NOT* Also please lets stay on topic, If this keeps up I might just give up, I joined this forum for people to tell me their opinions about my mice, and show the progress to others, I did not join it for people to criticize, or question the ways I do my breeding, also this topic is about my first mice, not culling, not how to breed. Please let's stay on topic...


 I didn't mean to criticize you, I was just woundering if its the litter from Rapunzel or maby another one.
I can't know how many mice you have - can I?

Besides this is a forum, not a blog, so peuple will ask you questions. Maby to learn more, maby to point out mistakes. 
I don't think anyone want to tease you. (this comunity here is a very kind one, compared to the german for example).

(and here is the OT again: of course if you say smething like the "my way is the only right one", like the culling disgussion, there are peple who get bothered. Since there are many ways not only yours or theirs)

So stop thinking that evryone want to mock you. You made this to show your litter, and as you see people are intrested in them and their growing.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Agreement is nice, but learning is better. I didn't understand why people said my babies looked skinny until I tried cullling, or at least fostering to even out litter size. The fact is that I got nice fat big babies when I reduced my litters by whatever means. I know large litters can be relatively healthy, but they will have less vitality and will sicken and die earlier, and they don't produce the best young.

I was against culling, but I tried it, and it works. It's no thrill to end up with a bunch of okay meeces that take up space, use supplies and effort, but have no purpose. I culled my latest blue tricolor litter at about four or five days, as soon as I did it I could see that the remaining 5 were fatter and bigger within 24 hours.

We all have the right to do as we wish and this forum is for exchanging ideas, not fighting. We can disagree with one another and still listen with respect, which is to say, we agree to disagree while being civil. All ideas should be treated with at least a little respect unless they are obviously wrong. We all have things we could learn more about and improve the way we do things.

We also each have a different vision of what we want with our meeces, and that needs to be respected as well.


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## BlackSelf (Apr 15, 2014)

Tally said:


> I didn't mean to criticize you, I was just woundering if its the litter from Rapunzel or maby another one.
> I can't know how many mice you have - can I?
> 
> Besides this is a forum, not a blog, so peuple will ask you questions. Maby to learn more, maby to point out mistakes.
> ...


I am really sorry, my wish is not to start a fight you are right, this is no blog, so here I will leave that alone. 
I do not want to be the "my way is the only right one" guy. everyone has a way of their own, after all we are all, infact, different.
Please feel free to ask any questions you want, I'll be happy to answer!

As for the litter, yes, this is Rapunzel's litter.



moustress said:


> We also each have a different vision of what we want with our meeces, and that needs to be respected as well.


Thank you for these words, they have made me realize my behavior.

___________________________________________________

As for the updates, I am sorry but I currently cannot update due to personal inconveniences, Will update very soon1


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> (and here is the OT again: of course if you say smething like the "my way is the only right one", like the culling disgussion, there are peple who get bothered. Since there are many ways not only yours or theirs)


Yes, the whole point of this forum is that people can keep and breed their mice in different ways, and culling is a part of that. This is not a thread concerning the ethics of culling and any discussion about the ethics of culling should be posted only in the culling forum, which is hidden so people won't be upset by it. If someone has culled their litter for whatever reason they are free to say so openly without anti-culling opinions taking over their thread


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