# Diets for mice?



## Emfa Mouse

Hi, I have a doe who is very overweight. I'm worried about her health and was wondering if there was anything I could do so she could lose weight?


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## Rhasputin

Unfortunetely, it's probably genetic, changing her diet, and providing her with exercise equipment won't help.


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## Emfa Mouse

She does carry the brindle gene.... I'll just keep an eye on her.


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## moustress

Brindling; that'll do it, alright. But I kinda like the big fat mousies...they are such a nice warm handful of cuteness.


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## Rhasputin

You can't carry brindle.


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## moustress

Not too many at once, anyhoo. *uffda*


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## MoonfallTheFox

I have a brindle who looks like a self- that may be what happened here. My girl has one very faint grey stripe on her rump that can only be seen in natural light. (sun)

I think there are more but I can not make them out consistently.


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## moustress

Brindling can be very sneaky. Sometimes the stripes shows only at the roots.


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## Emfa Mouse

XD yeah, she is a little chubby bubby but happy. Cheeky too! It's funny to see her next to my other doe, a broken lilac. And the brindle PEW is a manx as well


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## mousery_girl

give her less even if it mean giving the others less.. they're maent to have 6g each so give fatty 4g. All of mine keep gaining wieght and i keep thinking they're pregnant and feeding them more XD its very frustrating


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## SarahY

> give her less even if it mean giving the others less.. they're maent to have 6g each so give fatty 4g.


You *mustn't* 'diet' mice in this way. Unlike people they self-regulate their food intake and only eat what they need, and they wouldn't understand that they've each got a bit less food. What would happen is the dominant mice would eat their fill and the submissive mice would starve. In the OP's case the mouse is predisposed to become fat because it is a brindle, so it would still put on weight even if it was starving.


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## Emfa Mouse

ok. thanks!


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## mousery_girl

no it wouldn't be fat if you just fed it less. I think when they say some strains gain weight they mean.. they like to eat more. Also stop feeding comercial foods. I met someone last night who keeps his on stale bread, canary seed and oats. They all looked great. ... or just feed them less, i have to atm


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## SarahY

> no it wouldn't be fat if you just fed it less. I think when they say some strains gain weight they mean.. they like to eat more.


no, it means the dominant red gene cause mice to become obese with no revelence to their diet. As I have already explained, you mustn't feed red/brindle/fawn mice less food, it will not work :?


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## Frizzle

^^^
Does the metabolism rate just adjust to a smaller diet? Don't have brindles, just curious.


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## SarahY

Nope. They stay fat but lose coat condition and vigour.


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## Rhasputin

mousery_girl said:


> no it wouldn't be fat if you just fed it less. I think when they say some strains gain weight they mean.. they like to eat more. Also stop feeding comercial foods.


None of this is good advice. 
Reds, yellows, and brindles are fat no matter what you feed them. Even the thinnest brindles are chubby.


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## moustress

Almost always true with very nearly no exception. 99.9999999.......% of the time.


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## mousery_girl

hmmm how odd, why is my albino, blue, chocolate, fawn, dove and beige mice fat then? I presumed mice stopped when they were full however if i put in 50g of food for 3 they will all eat it in one night! I have to give them 15g or less now..


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## Cait

Mice DO only eat what they need and by giving them less you are effectively underfeeding them. Give them a full bowl of food and access to water at all times. You will get used to how much they eat and therefore how much to leave in the bowl so there's some left over when you change it. Why do you think they're all fat? By weight? By look? Do you have photos?


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## Laigaie

I'm terribly sorry that you're having trouble with your mice, *mousery_girl*! Unfortunately, dieting the mice is very rarely an effective measure, though it may seem perfectly reasonable from a human perspective. Photos of the mice would help us help you and them.


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## mousery_girl

no I don't I'm afraid, I've got them all back to normal weight now... when they're fat they look pregnant, all of them even the boys and then they're whole body gets huge and stretchy and flabby. I'm going to change it to oats, seeds and bread I've been told that they don't put weight on with this...


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## moustress

It isn't how much or what they eat that makes them fat. Reread the advice that was given. Not all seeds are good. Limit to dry bread in very small amount.

Fat mousies are fat mousies because they got it from their mom and dad, not from eating too much food.


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## SarahY

> no I don't I'm afraid, I've got them all back to normal weight now... when they're fat they look pregnant, all of them even the boys and then they're whole body gets huge and stretchy and flabby.


I *strongly *suggest you treat your mice for worms as this would explain their pot-bellied appearance, their tendancy to over-eat, and the trouble you're having keeping them in good condition. Fat mice are fat all over, including their shoulders and necks, potbellied mice have worms 

You can buy puppy worming syrup at any petshop. Just paint a pea sized amount on the fur above the tail and they will lick it off. Do this every fortnight for six weeks.

Edit: Even if you don't agree with my diagnosis, it won't hurt to treat your mice for worms to be on the safe side.


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## Cait

Sarah has a good point and as she says, it can't hurt. Years ago when I had pet mice my vet advised me to use kitten/puppy wormer on my mice. It was called Granofen and was powder that came in little sachets for the grand sum of 56p! All I did was mix it in with some mushy food (stewed apple) and let the mice dig in, but Sarah's method is better, because you're sure of the dose they get, and that they have definitely taken it. It's inexpensive and yet really could make all the difference.


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## moustress

Good points, both.


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## MoonfallTheFox

Dieting a mouse could kill it. Seriously.

I'll repeat my post from a while ago-

I forgot to feed my does one night and came down to find Jane twitching, with a rough coat and acting lethargic. When I picked her up she just sat there trembling. Gave her some food and she perked back up, and ended up being fine.

You cannot expect a tiny animal to go without food, ESPECIALLY if it has worms. You have to feed the worms before the mouse will get any nutrients.

And if you keep not giving enough food, eventually you'll open the tanks to find exactly what i did- very hungry, sick, shaking mice.


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## Frizzle

Just gonna throw it out there, most parasitic worms are also transmittable to humans. My dad got some sort a couple years ago (living on the farm), but its easily cured with two pills. They give it to your whole family though, because of how easily they are spread.

*Am I allowed to tell how round worms infect person to person? I was starting to type it and realized it was kinda gross...


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## Cait

If you put a warning first then yes as long as it's factual not done for shock value (not saying that you would!).

****WARNING - Post contains details of roundworm transfer between humans - do not read if you are squeamish****


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## mousery_girl

mm I never thought of that, thanks! i hope the wormer wouldn't be too strong though... will I see worms in the poo, can they reinfect themselves too


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## SarahY

You can sometimes see worms in the faeces. The wormer won't be too strong, I do it exactly as I've detailed it above. If you keep them clean (full clean out at least once a week, preferably twice) and continue the dosing every fortnight for six weeks, and do every single one of your mice, then they shouldn't get reinfected.


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## Frizzle

***WARNING - Post contains details of roundworm transfer between humans - do not read if you are squeamish***

To summarize, several different worm species can live in your intestines, which you know. At night, some species of females will wiggle out to lay eggs _down there_ before retreating back inside were it is warm. The "glue" they use to adhere the eggs is very itchy, and you will sometimes itch your bum in your sleep, getting the eggs on your hands and under your finger nails. The next morning, you are touching things like the milk jug, toast, fridge handles, etc, all with the potential to deposit eggs and infect family members. That is why when one person gets it, they treat everyone in your household. With a severe worm infestation, you will probably notice some in your feces/swimming around the toilet bowl, so just hazard a look at that if you're concerned. Yuck. : P


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## mousery_girl

haha ok thanks for that  anyway they seem better this week, no ones fat as of yet I'm waiting for the explosion soon lol its unnatually normal up there right now...


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## Laigaie

While that's a common way for humans to infect one another, the way most mice infect others is actually scarier to me. The eggs of the worms aerosolize, meaning that they're so small they're basically a powder that is airborne. It can travel into other cages/tanks, even so far as other rooms. In labs, unless you have your mice on separate ventilation systems, aerosolized eggs can travel from cage to cage, eventually infecting the entire colony. This is most commonly pinworms, which are killed in their adult form by dewormers, but eggs are not killed. In a lovely lab study summarized by AFRMA, they found that it can take up to FOUR ROUNDS of treatment with ivermectin to get rid of your infestation, and that rats and mice are often infected without being diagnosed, because the most common diagnosis method (tape test) gives so many false positives. Also, if you have a microscope or really good eyes, you can tape test your own mice by sticking a clean piece of clear tape to their bum and peeling it away. The eggs can be visible with the naked eye, but are usually identifiable with a microscope.


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