# Three new litters but had struggles along the way



## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

I'm new to breeding but I am loving the experience of having baby mice.

My first litter of babies were born last Tuesday. I opened the does box and found a pinkie leg, I worried because I have read some many topics of mum eating her babies. I took a look and there was a small pile of live pinkies. I was so happy. She is a first time mum so maybe she ate the baby for a reason I don't know. I never touched the babies or got to count then until yesterday. There is seven babies in the nest and seem to be doing well. All the colours are coming through, I see one or two pied, two dark babies and a light satin pup. I am so pleased with the satin. I have no idea about sexes yet so I'll wait till the nibbles are visible.

Now the next story of two does Ebony and Willow who gave birth on the same day Saturday just gone. On Saturday morning I looked in Ebony's box and realised she was thiner and looked to see if she had babies and when I looked she had a pile of pinkies in her nest. She seemed really interested in me and I worried a bit she wasn't looking after the babies. Then after I looked in Willow's box and she was also slim but ran back in her nest and wouldn't come out so I knew she had babies cause I could hear them so I left her alone. I checked on Ebony again and she was still outside but I left them alone till the next morning. On Sunday morning I looked at Ebony first as she was the one I worried about. After taking her out I looked at the babied and could see milk bellies so I was glad. I counted about nine but I am not sure. Then I checked on Willow and she came out to see me but really wanted to get out the box. Once I moved her I looked at the babies and saw six babies plus a half eaten one. Of the six babies in the nest one was blue and dead and I could not see milk bellies. I knew she wasn't looking after them. But I put her back but all she did was jump out the box and tried to get to my other doe. I think she was lonely. I took the babies out and tried to decide what to do. I put one in with my doe who had older babies who were five days old but I didn't like the way it was going, she picked it up like she would food and put the head of the pinkie to her mouth. I quickly took the pinkie of her and back with the other babies. I didn't want to put the babies with Ebony as she has nine of her own. That means she would be feeding fourteen. But in the end I put one in to see what Ebony would do and she accepted it. So I put all five in and she accepted them all. Now I didn't know what to do with Willow and wondered if I could put her with Ebony, Willow and Ebony are sisters and very friendly. I successfully did it and now both girls are raising the fourteen babies.

What I did find strange is all my mother does ate at least one baby from there litter.

I want to post photos of my oldest litter for others to help me with colours. Then the youngest once they are a week old.

I do have another doe who is with a male but seems unsuccessful as I've seen them mate so much since middle December. I had my first doe pregnant but I think she ate the all but still seems to have lumps on either side of her belly. She was big before Christmas not massive but could tell she was pregnant but I think she ate them all. I was sad but I won't breed her again.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Congratulations on your first litters.

I would imagine it is possible that the one munched from the older litter was stillborn, often mums will eat the ones that are stillborn or die, or sometimes just get a bit over the top cleaning off the placenta or otherwise just know something is not quite right with that baby.

I have had similar to your two does a few times and had to combine litters/does, usually the one that was not nursing or seeming to get it learns from the other and all goes well, although even with two does, each doe only has 10 nipples so you may find a few start falling behind due to being out competed.

Look forward to seeing photos and hope all continues to do well


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Thank you Lilly, it's been tough. My litter of seven are doing great, some are smaller then others but all are doing good. I have some really chubby ones and then some smaller but all are active little things. I might have more satins then I expected.

Now on to my worrying litter that have me more worried when I checked them this morning. There are twelve babies now and are four days old. Some look really skinny, really loose skin and thin. I wish I knew how to cull becasue I would but I will put some photo's up and see what you lot think first.

Photo's will come soon.


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Here are pictures of the oldest litter. Any help with colors?. Both black ones are the same but one is darker then the other.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Looks like 2 black 1 black pied 1 dove pied 1 yellow and then the other two seem to be yellow and dove but are not as pigmented

If you need help with culling or knowing how then you can look at a lot of reptiles forums or pm myself or another breeder such as SarahC, or ask SarahC if she can give you access to the culling forums to be able to read through the posts there.

As I mentioned before, having some skinny is not all that surprising given a mouse only has 10 teats and competition usually occurs but also there is a chance that the one mum that didn't nurse her litter is not actually lactating well (babies will still try to nurse even if they are not getting any milk so really not much of a way to tell other than seeing if they have milk bands bigger after nursing from her specifically) so it is possible that one mum is having to feed on her own or without much help at all from the other


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Thank you Lily for helping with colours. Though I have thought because the two blacks have a very light belly that they could have a tan belly. The father has a tan belly also.

Here is the younger litters and I really want peoples input on whether they are too skinny and whether i should cull a least half of them.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

In the second from the bottom I see a couple of nice chubby ones but in the pictures above that there are some that look pretty skinny, especially that black pied one on top of the other. Personally I think it would benefit if you do cut down the litter probably with the skinniest first since they're already weaker than the others in terms of being able to get milk.

The blacks may be black tan and with a tan father either all or 50% of the litter will be tans (depending on if he is at/at or at/a) but belly pigment comes in last. At that size with no pigment at all on the belly probably tan


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Thank you Lilly, I will pm you about culling.

The father is satin silver tan with a white stripe down his belly and white patches on his head. Is he satin broken silver tan?. Even though he is dark silver. The mum is a bright tan or could be yellow self. The mum has black self sisters so maybe that's where the blacks come from. Plus half brothers who are pied so that's where the pied comes from. Don't quite no about fathers genetics because I brought six mice from the breeder but they were three litters put together.


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Hi Lilly, could you pm me because I can't seem to pm you about culling. Thank you.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Messaged you 

Top right of the screen just under the logo bar on my screen to access messages


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Hi, I do have two black and tans I am sooo happy. I love black and tans. Plus I have three satins. What I wanted to ask is if I wanted to breed my black and tans what colour mouse would I need to breed with to get more black and tans.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Tan is dominant so another black tan or black self would be the best (so you don't introduce recessives that you then have to breed out later)

If you don't have both sexes of those then you can use just about anything else but you'll have to breed things out as you go along.

In general for black tans I would avoid using blue or c-dilutes though as this can lighten the tan, black or other black tans if possible


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

I seem to have a boy black tan and a girl black tan siblings. I do have a acouti tan in with my black self doe so I'm Hoping to get more agouti and black self's.

My oldest group of mice consisting of three self females and three pied males are all related and my youngest group of mice consisting of brokens, satins are all related also.

So I have two groups which I am crossing to each other. So all the babies that will be born will be related to one another somehow.


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Hi, I have a quick question, the two does I put together Willow and Ebony, it does seem one doe is feeding. So Willow doesn't seem to be producing milk. My question is, if she isntbproducoing milk does that mean if I bred her the second time she won't produce milk?. She is a good mum as well. She is always with the babies and laying on them. Plus the babies are so small for just over two weeks.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

A number of factors may have caused her not to, trauma around giving birth, not getting stimulation for whatever reason initially or any number of things, it is also possibly something with that line.

If you like her and want to try her again I would recommend pairing up another doe or two alongside to foster if needed but if her babies but if it is an issue with that line you may want to be prepared to not keep any females from it to breed in future.


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Okay, thank you. I might try her again. Willow and Ebony are related in some way. I might just breed Ebony I don't quite know yet but I have time.


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

I have some more babies, in total 28 baby mice. My newest and by far the fattest babies are five days old today. There is six in total, no culling.

For this litter I bred a black self doe with a satin agouti tan buck. I was hoping for one or more agouti babies but I got non, disappointed. I got one black self, two broken tans, of which I am happy with, a chocolate pied, maybe chocolate I don't know and two light babies of which I don't know what colour they are. One of the light babies is satin and both have pink eyes. I was kind of shocked by the pink eyed light babies. Both parents have black eyes but I think dad carries the pink eyes.

I will post pictures when they are seven days old so I can get help with colours. Plus all babies seem to be girls at the moment so happy about that too.


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Here is the baby mice that are six days old today, what colors are the light babies?. Plus something is wrong with one of the light babies eye. Is that a chocolate colored mouse?.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

looks like black, chocolate and champagne (pink eyed chocolate)

I wouldn't worry too much about the eye unless it gets really weepy and infected looking, its not too uncommon for them to get one seeming to be stuck closed for a little bit even after it initially opened.


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

Hi everyone, I have three more baby mice two I know the colours of, which are black and tan and a chocolate pied. It is the other colour mouse I don't know of, it looks blue to me but sometimes chocolate. Here are some pictures.


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## FlorenceB (Jan 27, 2017)

Could it be a different shade of chocolate maybe? Unless its pink eyed, in which case, champagne?


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## MadMouseHouse (Dec 20, 2016)

It has black eyes. It looks blue to me but I could be wrong I will take another photo when it is older.


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