# Not a question More a statement



## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

Ok

This has been bothering me for some time and i finally got round to voicing it.

If you want to improve the variety of mouse you are breeding why are people using such radical outcrossing.

breed like to like, pick the nearest to the standard out of the litter and use that to breed again.

I understand that for some people getting hold of stock may be more problematic than others, but do yourself and the mice a favour and don't start pairing alsorts with allsorts.

I get the feeling that some people are breeding whatever stock they have trying to breed particular varieties etc. : this is a very arduous task and not even very experienced breeders take this route unless they are in search of something very elusive. Even if you find stock really hard to acquire, i really don't see the point in breeding more and more mongrel mice. If you are just breeding for pets, then it doesn't matter what they are genetically or visually, but yet i see pet breeders asking so much about genetics etc.

right, glad i got that off my chest, sorry if it offends anyone its just my point of view to which i am entitled. Also i think its very good advice too.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Mutt meeces just for fun are understandable for those who merely want the fun of raising some meeces from birth. Agitating for someone to guess what the genes involved are can be tiresome...I know when I started out I was just as annoying and clueless. It is somewhat besides the point to try to name the unnameable colors that turn up in these pairings. I'd like these folks to do their research and come up with names for these 'mongrel' colors on their own before they come looking for answers in the Forum. I try to point these folks to resources they can use for this rather than trying to attach names to colors or varieties whose genotypes are blowing in the wind.

And I agree in principle that pairing show mousies with pet mousies is probaby wasteful of all the effort and time over the years spent in developing the show mousie.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

moustress said:


> And I agree in principle that pairing show mousies with pet mousies is probaby wasteful of all the effort and time over the years spent in developing the show mousie.


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

Shiprat said:


> Ok
> 
> This has been bothering me for some time and i finally got round to voicing it.
> If you want to improve the variety of mouse you are breeding why are people using such radical outcrossing.
> breed like to like, pick the nearest to the standard out of the litter and use that to breed again.


It depends on what you want to breed. If you have varities, which are available with small size and tiny ears only (e.g. Merle), it makes a lot of sense to do radical outcrosses combined with well planned linebreeding of following generations.
















There are many other examples, even varities of broader distribution.

Kind regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

My only comment Matt is that you are looking at it through the eyes of someone who is interested in showing.A percentage of pet/hobby breeders may start off randomly and find themselves becoming more interested in genetics or pure bred varieties.These might become the exhibitors of tomorrow. Others are just sharing their interest on a forum with fellow enthusiasts,which is nice.I started with pet mice,I don't come from a showing(of any animal)background but those pet mice have lead me to my passion for showing.I still retain a touch of the experimental breeder within but of course keep that seperate,my hairless mice are my dark secret,they will never be a show variety but I enjoy them.I like the cross section of people,we have the facebook page for satisfying exclusive show talk,don't you think?I'm loving the facebook and looking forward to the updated website  Bring on those odd eyes moustress. :mrgreen:


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

SarahC said:


> My only comment Matt is that you are looking at it through the eyes of someone who is interested in showing.A percentage of pet/hobby breeders may start off randomly and find themselves becoming more interested in genetics or pure bred varieties.These might become the exhibitors of tomorrow. Others are just sharing their interest on a forum with fellow enthusiasts,which is nice.I started with pet mice,I don't come from a showing(of any animal)background but those pet mice have lead me to my passion for showing.I still retain a touch of the experimental breeder within but of course keep that seperate,my hairless mice are my dark secret,they will never be a show variety but I enjoy them.I like the cross section of people,we have the facebook page for satisfying exclusive show talk,don't you think?I'm loving the facebook and looking forward to the updated website  Bring on those odd eyes moustress. :mrgreen:


point taken Sarah


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

Roland

nice pictures!


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## m137b (Sep 22, 2010)

SarahC said:


> A percentage of pet/hobby breeders may start off randomly and find themselves becoming more interested in genetics or pure bred varieties.These might become the exhibitors of tomorrow. :


I think this applies to more US breeders[myself included] than anywhere else. Since most americans don't even know people breed mice[or any other small animal] to exhibit them, and if they've heard of it they rarely imagine them being evaluated on confirmation, condition, and color but rather being made to do tricks. I've had loads of people ask me how we get our show rabbits to walk on a leash around the show ring. :roll:


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

m137b said:


> SarahC said:
> 
> 
> > A percentage of pet/hobby breeders may start off randomly and find themselves becoming more interested in genetics or pure bred varieties.These might become the exhibitors of tomorrow. :
> ...


This is why i would find it hard to live in the USA.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

What?! NO! It's fun explaining obscure hobbies to the average American.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

LOL @ tinyhart that it is especially when they never thought it was possible or something even "real" per se I mean if someone had told me in elementary or middle school before i started showing rabbits that people showed mice id have laughed and said nice joke. But now im not surprised at anything i mean we show cats, dogs, rabbits, cavies, birds, farm animals, i know they have ferret shows but i havent bothered trying to get involved in that. and then of course the rat and mice. I dont think there is anything you cant show


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

i just started to breed for snake food (i have 4 as pets and have just had the first litter for food), i just like the mice as well, i never expect to breed a perfect mouse and i don't show them but i enjoy looking at the genetics. when i had rats years ago i used to mostly have russian blues. if i ever get enough room i'd love to do this properly and get some realy nice well breed mice, but for now it is what it is and i love my 4 pets.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Mousing is considered unusual here in the US; I love explaining it to all my new clients when I meet them. I know, when I got my first meeces I wasn't aware of the breeding world, and I didn't think to look online for info or contact with other mousekeepers. I had just gotten my first PC with months before starting with the mousies, and when I found mousie content online, it was on a whim. I was just agog and spent quite a bit of time just cruising and looking at pictures of all the different colors and types. I'm still isolated in terms of access to other breeders, so I've become used to being on my own as far as finding good looking breeding stock. I have to make them happen if I want them, which is one reason why losing so many meeces in the accident was such a blow to the gut.

And as far as mutt meeces, I've bred my two pet store does to a snakebait buck just to have some standard meeces around, with no apologies to anybody, and I think it'll be a challenge over the years to see how and when I start seeing improvements in them. Can you tell I love a challenge?


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## Bryana (Nov 30, 2009)

Lol at the comment about breeding pet and show varieties together. I have a goal of adding type to my merles and I don't see crossing the two types as being detrimental to show mice but rather helping the poor typed merles progress. I will continue the line of 'pure' show mice to maintain their type separately. The reason I am doing this is because there has never been a merle whose type I absolutely fawned over or could even appreciate. I don't mean that to offend anyone but those are my reasons for crossing the two types. It is not a pointless project but one that is being well thought out, put a lot of time into and I sure as heck don't think my efforts are wasteful


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## Tinkers Mousery (Feb 20, 2011)

now i know i have been goin on quite a bit about different things on here but i am intriegued by the world of showing. i breed for pet homes and pet shops but any show mice i aquired would be kept totally seperate. i would not go putting any random thing together. apart from my unexpected litter of babies, i have paired my males and females well together to try and get some of the best veriety of colours ( even tho they are only pets).


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

it won't hurt to cross show mice into pet lines.It would ruin the show mice(for exhibition) if it was vice versa though so you would have to be very careful not to mix them up.My hairless mice are dutch,thanks to the exhibition dutch input.


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## Tinkers Mousery (Feb 20, 2011)

ahh ok. thanks for the info


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