# ASFs with curly tails (pics added on pg. 2)



## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I have some ASFs, that as adults developed a curl in their tails. They curl up and over, similar to some dogs.

They couldn't possibly have wheel tail, because they do not have wheels in their cages.
Is it possible for this to just be genetic? They don't seem to be in pain at all, and they -can- straighten their tails out, but they usually hold them up, and curled.

Thoughts?


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## Kage Davies (Dec 21, 2008)

I swear I saw on a website someone breeding for curly tails like that in mice, somewhere in the US o.o. I don't remember where now, but I'm sure I've seen it...

Curly tails could mean a back problem though, I thought?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Yes, it can mean that the have wheel tail. But these ASFs do not have wheels. I didn't give them wheels because of their tails, I figured it -was- wheel tail, but I'm begining to think it's not.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

And I too have herd of breeding mice with curly tails. But have never seen one. Hmm. . .


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

In house mice it's called a porcine ("pig-like") tail and is related to inner ear problems. I don't know if this is true for other species of mice.

I've seen pictures of them online, although I don't remember where. I only remember the name. Here is the JAX page: http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches ... =MGI:97754


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Hmm. Porcine is exactly what I was thinking of, but I don't think it's an inner ear problem with these guys.

They show none of the waltzing, or head bobbing, or strange gaits of other rodents with inner ear problems. :|


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I can read your mind.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

:lol:

I only vaguely knew of it, because it's on the mousery database.


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## Kage Davies (Dec 21, 2008)

LMAO XD.

Inner ear problems effect balance, right? That's what causes the wobbling etc. So if a mouse was born with an inner ear problem, wouldn't it compensate automatically? So, it might not actually wobble. Just a thought, I don't know if that's true or not o.o.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Possible. But from what I've seen they still have problems as adults.

I also would think that, with the number of curled tails I have, if it -were- an inner ear problem, at least one should show a balance problem. :|


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## Kage Davies (Dec 21, 2008)

True o.o. Just a thought. Do you have a photo of the kind of curly tails they have?


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Here's one









And there's another in this pile here









It's actually helpful, because it makes it easier to tell them apart sometimes.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

It looks like porcine tails to me.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

How strange! @[email protected]

Are there any other known causes for them?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't know.

With house mice, sometimes it's hard to find information on little-studied alleles like this, so in ASF/multimammates, it's impossible!


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Yeah. It's absolutely impossible to find info on genetics for ASFs.

Maybe I'll do some small tests like mazes and balance excersizes with them, to see if there are any issues that point to inner ear problems.  
Project for tomorrow!


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Also. All of my females have had litters recently. 
I will track the development of their tails to see if it happens to the offspring as well.
And will also track the litters, to see if they develop waltzing etc.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

Thats interesting, have you checked the tails for fused Vertbra? happens in house mice but genrally only a couple fused, not enough to cause a curl


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## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

How old are these adult mice? They may develop inner ear problems down the line, or perhaps this is actually 'wheel-tail" due to a cage top that is too low? Just a thought.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I don't think it's fused vertibrae, no. They can uncurl their tails easily, they just seem to relax into a curled position.

Liz, I think the curl in the tail is caused -by- the inner ear problems. As a way to compensate for balancing issues. And their cage is plenty high, they are all kept in ten galon tanks with popsicle furniture, and glass water bottles.

Hrmmmm . . .
I'm going to an ASF breeder's house tomorrow. He owns 18+ colonies, so I will look through his stock and see if there are any similar tail curls, just out of curiosity! 

He is going to be giving me some high whites, I'm so excited. He doesn't have pure whites, but he does have some that are very close, which will help me in my quest for BEWs!


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## Lizzle (Apr 7, 2010)

Hmm, I see what you're getting at, but I would think there would be other indications including a slightly tilted head or unusual gait.

I have a mouse who had a curly tail for unknown reasons, but it has since straightened out completely on its own. Bizarre. :lol:


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