# show mice



## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

This may be a bit of a silly question but I was just wondering where the standards for show mice started? I guess more in the respect that show mice seem to focus quite a lot on size where selfs seem to be dramatically bigger than pet shop mice.

Is bigger size just thought to be more appealing? Or linked to more docile cuddly temperament? Or some other reason.

I read an article investigating selective breeding for active time on the wheel (was investigating changes in brain mass) and that mentioned that the mice chosen for being on the wheel more ended up 25% smaller overall than the control group so really just got me interested.

Part of me is a little crazy I think in wanting to go against the norm and get tiny mice just to see how far it could go the other way but it does seem bigger = lazier and smaller = more active frm what I have seen.

Anyway I guess a little rambling (sorry), just a few musings


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

big is desirable in show mice but it has to be in proportion .They are bigger than their pet counterparts but not all varieties are capable of being giant even with selective breeding.Not all are docile either ,some varieties are fast and flighty.Handling is still very important.In the UK colour is the most important aspect.For instance chocolate mice need to be the colour of Bournville not Dairy milk.It is very easy to get a large mouse in the Dairy milk shade.The intense Bournville colour is difficult to achieve and some size will be sacrificed in the pursuit of it.A smaller but well proportioned Bournville mouse will beat a giant Dairy milk mouse.Hope the chocolate comparison helps.Selecting for exceptionally small mice is not a good idea.If there are smaller ones in a litter then they are smaller for a reason and you will breed in weakness and poor health as the breeders of 'tea cup' puppies have.The hobby of exhibiting animals began in victorian times,dogs,mice,rabbits ....


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Oh yes I love the chocolate example!

I was never meaning breeding runts but there ar some size differences so with health as number one priority I just wondered.

Does larger not have its own set of issues too? Great Danes and other large dogs generally have shorter lifespans than terrier size and I thought I have read someone say big self show mice have a little bit shorter (though I don't remember where).


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

they don't have short tails.If they have someone has bred the fault in.Exhibition mice excel in tails and ears compared to pet type mice.Pet type mice have small ears and tails like a cotton thread.You bend the tail over the body of an exhibition mouse and it should be able to pass the tip of the nose.If it doesn't then it's a fault.I don't think they have a particularly shorter lifespan either.The only issue I find related to the size is lack of fertility.This in itself is limiting on how big you can breed them.If the point comes where there are no litters then an outcross becomes necessary with a resulting loss in size.That will probably stop them ever reaching the extremes that dogs do.If you make sure your small mice are healthy and you like pet type then breed those.I love these pet type ones,so pretty. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=36202


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Yes I was looking at those little babies in awe, they're so gorgeous. I love the bigger show types too, they almost seem like different species in some way, at least looking at the big self colours next to pet mice. But I know I won't be able to travel hundreds of miles for shows and even if I could I would be better starting from good quality breeder stock.

I guess it was just general thoughts on a direction, I have as my main priorities health and temperament, I lived in England for most of my life but have been in US now 6 years and the mice I used to have even from a pet shop in England seemed quite different in terms of how much they wanted to just be with you.

I know I want a texel line and will be getting a couple to start it in a couple of months (although the only ones I can find are from a breeder that is primarily feeder but like having projects on the side). Since I am not going for shows though I am kind of at a loss at to what physical characteristics I should work towards if health and friendliness seem equal.

Sorry I guess I must seem clueless and the whole "breeding to better the species".

Thank you very much for all your insight though SarahC


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## NexivRed (Nov 8, 2015)

Thank you for your compliments to my mice  I've been very lucky and been blessed with some decent stock from Germany. They're not show type, but they have tail sets and ears I can definitely work towards improving and they're a decent size with lovely body shapes. Pearl (the mother of that litter gave me a stunning little buck in that litter which I will be breeding back to her and also one of his sisters who I am keeping once they're both old enough. I'd really like to continue to improve their looks as well as keep the fantastic temperaments all three seem to have.

I love the sleek yet chunky, long tails and beautiful large, low set ears of the show type. I shall continue to work with the mice I currently have (including a new yellow satin new from Germany), but I will probably look to purchase an actual show type to further improve them.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

This may seem like a silly question, but given that you're in a part of the US where there are shows, why not breed for show? Texel is a variety that does poorly when bred for size--coat length, curl, and quality is paramount for texels. It's a great first variety for folks coming in from outside of the show community to get their feet wet. I've seen pet breeders wipe the show breeders out when both enter mice in the same show.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Honestly reading about the shows on here and the community they foster sounded amazing. But there is just no way I really could travel to get to them. Even though there are shows on the east coast they are just too far away (the main two I can find about this month and next are 730 miles away for the nearest and even further for the other). As it is I am lucky to find any texels within travel distance and they will be from a feeder breeder about 150 miles away.

Also my search for actual show mice breeders on all the breeder listings has led to at best "no longer breeding" or in most cases just simply website not found for anywhere in the couple of states around me and from all the information I can get starting from pet shop stock can take decades... The few I have found breeding do not have the type I want or have show quality but more of pet breeders.

Shipping is also out of the question and for now it will just be a couple of litters a year so it seems very hard to imagine until I am in a position of being able to travel and get better stock that shows are going to happen.

It seems sad seeing so many no longer breeding or websites down, are there just less breeding mice or is it more that the websites tend to be hobby breeders or people enthusiastic at first that don't really realize what they're in for?

Another more personal thing of course is I just do not think I could go it alone so to speak, I have no experience in knowing what to look for and even if by some miracle I got good stock am worried I would just ruin them quality wise by inexperienced choices.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Websites just aren't common anymore for breeders, and some show breeders don't even have a Facebook page for their mousery. Most of us do, though. Still, especially if you're in the southern half of the country, it can indeed be really hard to do much showing unless you're able to drive a couple states away at least once a year. I definitely understand that!


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Yep, GA so pretty far from the shows.


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