# Young Males and Fighting



## PeachnZelda (Feb 23, 2012)

The three males from my oops litter are housed together, and have been so their entire lives. They're currently almost 6wks. Until last night they had been lovely to each other, if anything more so than my girls!

However, last night after being mucked out, two of them had a fight. There was only a minute amount of blood, but this is perhaps because the boys were separated rather than because it wouldn't have got to this stage... Eventually I took out both perpetrators and put them in the travel box together, then removed both nest houses so they had nothing to fight over (their bedding is soft tissue, so they can still burrow and nest.) the boys calmed down, we're returned to their cage and have not fought since then.

My question is - should I find homes for all the boys individually if there is a prospect of fighting?

At the moment, one of the aggressors is going to be kept with us, alone, and the other agressor, along with the male who wasnt involved, are going to a home together.

Should I get them neutered before they go/suggest neutering to the new owner? I'm sure you all know how hard it is to find bucks homes, but I don't want to rush into putting their lives at risk by either anaesthesia or fighting!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

The mucking out was likely that cause of this particular fight, but it will continue. Neutering does not always eradicate aggression. Separate homes are suggested, if you are not able to neuter and determine that they do not fight afterward.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Fighting at 6 weeks is very unusual and indicative of males which will be very aggressive. I would seperate all three. While the third, more submissive buck may not be attacked outright, he may still be bullied constantly by the dominant mouse with whom he is left. His passivity may save him from being wounded but it won't stop the other mouse pushing him around.

Bucks are usually pretty happy on their own, lording it over their own territory and feeling very manly


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## CeriLM (Oct 20, 2011)

I've had a trio of males on two occasions. The first trio were brill together, no figthing and get to see everyones individual personalities. BUT second trio we got were housed together until problems started at about 20weeks. Two would fightbut never draw blood, and the other we'd rarely see. We attempted to seperate one of the fighting males each night then would put back the following morning. One day I found a bite mark (i think) on the submissive one so seperated then. Since been in seperate cages the submissive one has become a right character. I think with males its very hit/miss but from what i've read on here I was lucky my first trio stayed together with no problems. My current males are no doubt happier alone..


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## PeachnZelda (Feb 23, 2012)

Thank you for all your advice. At the moment, the most aggressive is on his own with us and the other two have been rehomed together, but with new owner experienced and aware of the fact they may need separating  fingers crossed.


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## mousery_girl (Nov 13, 2011)

IF mice were given female hormones they may stop fighting, I really want to try this out but it may also make them infertile... would soya milk do it I wonder?


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

mousery_girl said:


> IF mice were given female hormones they may stop fighting, I really want to try this out but it may also make them infertile... would soya milk do it I wonder?


 :? Huh? Why would soya milk be the equivalent to female hormones?!?


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## Serena (Dec 29, 2011)

She probably means the phytoestrogen that can be found in soybeans:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#Phytoestrogen
afair they are suspected to have feminizing effects in humans if consumed in larger amounts.

There are easier and quicker solutions to castrate animals chemically, but they all affect reproduction.
as far as I know, there's no way to reverse the behavioural affects of testosteron without having effects on the libido and the quality of semen.
Drugs could be a replacement for surgical castration, though, but atm that's all equally expensive.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Soy milk would not be anywhere near enough phytoestrogen to be an issue, even if it were all he drank (which would be bad for him). Soy milk just doesn't have all that much phytoestrogen in it.


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## mousery_girl (Nov 13, 2011)

Serena said:


> There are easier and quicker solutions to castrate animals chemically, but they all affect reproduction.
> as far as I know, there's no way to reverse the behavioural affects of testosteron without having effects on the libido and the quality of semen.
> .


tell me these ways I have old males I won't be using anymore but they're pets now!


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## mousery_girl (Nov 13, 2011)

Serena said:


> She probably means the phytoestrogen that can be found in soybeans:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#Phytoestrogen
> afair they are suspected to have feminizing effects in humans if consumed in larger amounts.
> 
> ...


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## Serena (Dec 29, 2011)

I know of a subcutaneous inmplant containing deslorelin. It can be successfully used in dogs and cats. the smallest one suffices for around 6 months in a medium-sized dog, so it should be plenty for a mouse.
It is a rather large needle (similar to the one for microchips) and has to be implanted by a vet. Probably with some local anesthetics or a short gas-anaesthesia.
the other one is androcur, a solution containing cyproteronacetat. but it has to be given far more frequently than the implant and can cause skin reactions at the injection site. It's more of a short-time solution for old male dogs that have problems peeing due to a large prostate and a rather quick fix, whereas the implant takes a few weeks to work properly.

As far as I know they haven't been used in mice yet, so I don't know if they will work the same as in dogs
I might ask my vet to try it if I have a nice old buck I would get rid of otherwise. I considered it with the last one, but put him down due to his persistent scratching.


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## Serena (Dec 29, 2011)

I have a quick update: 
I had one of my male mice implanted with the deslorelin-chip. so far it seems to work well. The testicles shrunk and he couldn't get a female (16 weeks old) pregnant. He is now living with his intact nephew. They squabble a bit, but so far nothing serious. not even missing fur. Both of them fought more seriously with their brothers before I had to separate them back then. So I'm quite pleased.

On wendsday I have an appointment for an injection with a different male and androcur. I am still looking if I can find a dosage for mice. If I cannot find one I will use the one recommended for dogs I think.


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