# how to creat black selfs?



## george (Aug 24, 2010)

ive had to give up on finding a black buck so my line of blacks are unlikely to get off the ground.

although im sure it will take years to creat blacks from scratch, does anyone know how it is done?
well, not completely from scratch. i still have two black doe's i can use.

are they derived from agouti? just with the yellow being weened out over the generations?

any ideas more than welcome


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

If you can get to Weston super mare I will give you a black buck George. If you cant get here, or to Harrogate in jan maybe we can sort some kind of mouse train out. Forget making them from scratch, I know you are young but you dont have enough time. It would take you 100 years to get them to show standard. The blacks shown today are extreme non agouti, in other words all other pigment except black has been removed.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Black is an A locus recessive, so all you need to do, in theory, is breed two colors that are recessive in that locus, and also have the dominant factor 'B' in the B locus. Here's a list from the Genetics and Varieties section right here in this forum. any color that is homozugous, that is, having two of the recessive factors (alleles) 'a' and at least one dominant allele in the B locus, will yield black, providing you don't have other diluting factors (recessives, again) in the the other loci.

Selfs
Black - aa B* C* D* P*
Chocolate - aa bb C* D* P*
Champagne - aa bb C* D* pp
Dove - aa B* C* D* pp
Fawn - AY B* C* D* pp
Red - AY B* C* D* P*
Blue - aa B* C* dd P*
Cream - AY* B* cchcch D* P* or pp or aa B* cce D* P* or pp
Lilac - aa bb C* dd P*
Silver - aa B* C* dd pp

A little reading will help you; I recommend the Genetics section of Petrodents:

http://www.petrodents.com/genetics-mainmenu-65.html

This gives a good explanation of all the basics. It's not all that complicated, though it took me a while to have a firm grasp of the subject and I really needed to have the information on hand to refer to for my first couple of years of mousing. It's good to have a site like this bookmarked. I have several different sites of this type bookmarked as there are always things I like to double check on from time to time.

If yoiu still have questions after looking over some of this stuff, I'll be glad to help.


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## george (Aug 24, 2010)

phil, your a star! we will be at harrogate as katy is showing her first litter of argente's there. so yeh, if you have another buck available ill love to buy him off ya at the show  id like to get to you sooner but cant really afford the petrol at the min.

and thanks for the info and link moustress  ill definatly learn something from that lot lol


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

No problem George. The only thing I can suggest if you want one earlier is if you contact Sarah C. I gave her a black buck last week for some obscure purpose. She lives in leicester so not far from you. You could give her your does and get them back when in kindle or borrow the buck maybe. Give her a shout.


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## george (Aug 24, 2010)

hmm, good idea. ill drop her a pm and keep you posted


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## george (Aug 24, 2010)

create i mean. not "creat"


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