# Adoption Policy



## icedmice (Oct 4, 2009)

I've had trouble first with a breeder who claimed one of my mice was aggressive. I had no issues picking him up, turns out he's got a beautiful temperament but sometimes head strong.
I drove an hour to and from her place TWICE payed a toll on the road each way and never recieved a cent.

I had a similar incodent where a pet home claimed they could no longer tolerate the mouse's odor.

Third case I had a pet home adopt a mouse and not even one month later relisted them for sale on a free classified site! - I recognised the mouse because of it's unique markings and the email address of the buyer. She's since been blacklisted.

As you can see I've been let down a few times and need to be a bit more strict with policy. What are some ways you avoid these issues?

Firslty, I'm considering no longer having single sales unless it's by prior arrangement because I'm sick of people mucking me around and being picky over a single animal.
It mucks me around a lot because then it has to go through quaranteen again because it's been exposed to animals outside my rodentry.

Some changes I'm considering are...
I'm thinking I may supply pet homes with same sex pairs ONLY. No more waiting around half the day for a no show over a single adoption.
With breeders I'm considering supplying with either an option of same sex pairs, mixed sex pairs, breeding trios or multiple animal adoptions. Unless there are special circumstances that allow for a single animal adoption e.g. purchase at show.

None of these new policies really safeguard the possibility that someone may still take advantage of me or my animals. I know many don't supply pet homes for this reason and it seriously looks like I may be heading down the same path. What measures to you have in place to prevent these issues?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Sometimes people just s**k. Those who bring home a little pet and try to play with it right away are sad; it takes time to get to know a mousie and let it get to know you, and your smell, and The Hand. Folks who just get a mousie and bring it home and expect it be a delightful engaging pet right away aren't going to have a good experience. and folks who complain about the smell, well, I hope they don't have children... it's awful for a kid to grow up feeling like there's something wrong with them because they get dirty and sometimes smell like this or that, or the other stuff over there....very sad that our society has become so incredibly intolerant of people who smell like people. It's sick really. And then one is bombarded by all the perfumy crap in laundry products, and air fresheners, etc, etc. etc. I much prefer the odor of meeces to that kind of stuff any day. I was floored once when I listened to the last few minutes of Oprah Winfrey, which comes right before the evening news in out town, and some woman was complaining about smelling somebody's stuff in a bathroom, which is the place for that stuff, and, I just....it's incomprehensible and almost too stupid for words.

As far as leaving you sitting waiting all day for them, that's intelerable as well. Why are some people so thick about the value of somebody else's time? It goes beyond rude all the way sh**ty.Good way to accumulate bad karma, if you ask me.

In some ways, I would rather put down a mousie that I didn't have room for than try to give it a new home with some ignorant butthead who doesn't care enough to really work with it and let it get to know him. I'd even rather give it to a snake shop who sold frozen meeces, someone I could trust to humanely euthanize the critter. And I bet I'm not the only breeder who feels that way.

(there you go Sarah, I kind of remembered what I said, and expanded on it. Hope you like it!  )


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## icedmice (Oct 4, 2009)

Precisely, I'm so glad I'm not the only one that feels this way.

I don't disagree with you when it comes to selling them for frozen food. I know some feeder rodents are kept in less than ideal conditions and I would feel better knowing my pet snake is eating food that was treated with kindness before it's ultimate sacrifice.

I think what some pet homes don't appreciate is I do this for a hobby, because I like it and I want to share it with other people. I put heaps of work into it and don't just randomly pair them for profit.
If I were to ask twice the amount I am now I'd still be operating at a significant loss. I actually work night shift 5 days a week, breeding mice isn't my job.

It's really dissapointing. But I have heard many stories comming from all sorts of domestic animal breeders that seem to reflect similar opinions of the general public.
Dog breeders included, nightmare stories about how their show quality pup ended up in the hands of a puppy farmer only goes to show no screening process is flawless.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I feel the same.


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## setterchick (Nov 19, 2010)

This happens with dogs when people dont do the proper screening of potentional buyers. Some one doesnt just call up and the puppy is gone that day, this is not responsible. I know of one show dog that got into a puppy mill situation and it was quickly shut down. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about it... But with proper screening and the buyer being intrested for more than a day I believe it would be fine.

If your loosing so many to bad homes, maybe you need to be stricter about who you sell too... idk maybe I am wrong but I would give people the chance, our mice are just pets but I love them just as much as my dog at home.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Being a great fan myself of Pinky and the Brain, how many of you remember the last season? I can't remember the name of the little girl, something like Amanda; the show was retitled Amanda and Pinky and The Brain, and the lab was closed due to protest over animal experimentation by PETA-like group. the meeces, and other animals were put into a pet shop wher Amanda gets Pinky and The Brain and proceeds to treat them like stuffed animals or worse, in several episodes giving them 'flying lessons' by throwing them into the air and' crying out, "Fly little mousies, Fly!" No, you'll not see any of my mousies in a pet shop, never, never, never. :!:


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## icedmice (Oct 4, 2009)

moustress said:


> No, you'll not see any of my mousies in a pet shop, never, never, never. :!:


Ditto. I know some breeders do, I don't care how good a pet store appears. I would NEVER trust a business operating to make a profit from the sale of animals. I admit I made that mistake once, and I learnt very quickly.



setterchick said:


> This happens with dogs when people dont do the proper screening of potentional buyers. Some one doesnt just call up and the puppy is gone that day, this is not responsible. I know of one show dog that got into a puppy mill situation and it was quickly shut down. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about it... But with proper screening and the buyer being intrested for more than a day I believe it would be fine.


We might have to agree to disagree. While screening does eliminate SOME inappropriate owners (more often than not the dummies), some are more deceptive and these ones wriggle through the gaps appearing to be legitimate.
For example the breeder I'm referring to is pretty high up in the community and I did expect better. Following the return of my buck not evern 24hrs later she was offloading several other bucks because they were all showing signs of aggression in her male colony. Due to the last incodent she'll be lucky to get a bag of rodent pellets from me let alone a mouse.

The fancy in Australia is less than professional, that's why I looked for international fanciers with lots of experience and knowledge. I'd prefer to be associated with breeders that actually 'know' what they're talking about.

I'm pretty strict to who I sell to now, any more and I'd be selling them as snake food only. No live sales. I'm pretty darn serious about considering it too!
I'm finding it difficult to trust anyone right now, very few are worthy of my precious babies.

I have had great homes, don't get me wrong, but finding them is like finding a needle in a haystack!


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

I agree about you culling your mice if you can't find a home for them. For a breeder I think i'm fairly quick to cull when it comes to unimportant litters (e.g. not from my astrex lines), any that look sick, any that are sick, any that I can't find homes for, any that I don't think would make a good pet (I used to breed with petshop mice-never again). On one hand it looks cruel, but it's better for the mice. A tame, healthy mouse would get more attention than a scatty, scruffy mouse.

When it comes to selling to petshops, I only sell some of my surplus to the one I work at. We refuse to sell rats, guinea pigs, russian hamsters and female mice singly. When we sell an animal we tell the owner what to expect (especially when it comes to male mice and their smell!). You wouldn't believe the amout of people who just want a single rat, who have the cage at home, and I explain to them that they can't be housed in a small hamster cage and that they can get depressed if they live on their own. Also we won't sell male and female animals to the same buyer, and we make sure the other staff knows incase they come back wanting more stock. The animals we get in from the breeder aren't really suitable for breeding, and we don't want someone breeding randomly for the sake of it.

To avoid bad buyers like what you've said, I usually get them to some to me, make sure that they really do want some of my mice and only sell females in pairs/trios etc. I don't sell males in pairs or trios, because the last time I did one ate the others. So many times have I replied to someones wanted ad on here with offers of my mice, and they never reply, or show much of an interest!


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## setterchick (Nov 19, 2010)

Ok fair... I just dont believe in killing animals just because I don't want them.. I cant justify that... Maybe you should try making an informational packet to go home with them or something of that sort


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

I usually cull most of the males out of the litter the first day...unless I need one or two for myself. People don't know/understand about males enough to keep them.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

Beth, that's what I also do  Less people tend to want males anyways


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

That's rotten that the people who have bought your mice have let you down like that  I only buy mice as pets but I wouldn't ever expect the breeder to travel to me, nor have I ever bought just one mouse (whether male or female.) People who want your mice should come to you at a time that suits you - if that isn't possible they can look elsewhere. There are only 4 mice that i have ever had brought to me as part of a mouse train. Perhaps it may be worth looking at the policies of animal rehoming centres - if some one wants an animal from you let them prove they have down their research and that they do want the mouse. What experience do they have, what food will it be on, what housing will the animal be in, why do they want it? If they aren't prepared to answer every question you pose to them then they clearly haven't looked into the animal they want as a pet and don't deserve it. One rescue centre that I was involved with for a short time had me complete a 3 page questionnaire on my experience with mice, complete with photos on the cage they would be going into, contact details for my vet (so they could contact them prior to agreeing to rehome any animals), numbers of other mice, would the new mice be introduced to the existing ones. Might seem extreme, but as a pet mouse owner I'd be more than happy to answer all those questions to prove that I want and can care for the mice, but it also proved to me that the person I was getting the mice from cared where they ended up as well.


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## icedmice (Oct 4, 2009)

setterchick said:


> Ok fair... I just dont believe in killing animals just because I don't want them.. I cant justify that... Maybe you should try making an informational packet to go home with them or something of that sort


I respect your opinion about not killing for the heck of it, it would certainly be a last option for me too. I do still get a steady bunch of enquiries and have exhausted every avenue for advertising my stock. There ARE homes out there, I see them all the time eyeballing the mouse tank at the local pet store so I slip them a business card and tell them to come see me. 
It's trust I have difficulty with, not sales, but money is meaningless if I'm sending my animals into poor care. They mean more to me than the change in the bottom of your pocket.

My current pack:









I used to have a bunch of toys and a smaller sample of food but now they get a full container 750g of food so I know they'll be fed well for a while, a professionally printed care pamphlet and a couple business cards so they can contact me again if they need more info.

The package makes up half the cost of the mouse and a couple still complain about the cost ... which obviously get rejected as homes because if they can't afford that there is no way they'll afford a cage or vet treatment!

I have tried everything to prevent these problems, and that's why it fustrates me.

Cheers for the responses anyway, just one of those things that comes with the fancy I suppose :roll: .


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

That looks like a great pack to send new owners away with, would be good if pet shops did that as well. How much do you charge?

I am really struggling to find homes for my surplus lately, I've got loads at the moment all needing homes. I have been living in the same area for over 2 years and never had an issue selling/rehoming mice before, sometimes supplying to pet shops but mostly private rehoming on-line. I'm looking at having to cull healthy beautiful mice because no-one wants them at the moment, I guess we learn from our mistakes.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

icedmice that is a fabulous thing to give a new mousie owner! I always give food too, but to have a brochure printed up is a great idea! I haven't done much in the way of placing my meeces with other folks, but if I did, I'd have to do like you, it only makes sense.

I'm afraid that many folks wouldn't really follow advice whether given in print or in person....people are used to kittens and puppies which are pretty much user ready in the sense that they not only are able to be held and cuddled right away, but need to be handled. Mousies are a very different sort of pet experience...more of a challenge because they need us to be patient and wait til they are ready for cuddling.

It's a very special thing to tame a creature that is essentially wild unless raised by hand, as we do with our mousies.


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## icedmice (Oct 4, 2009)

I charge $10 AUS for the first mouse $16 a pair and $4 for additional mice. Still cheaper than some pet stores that only give a carboard box to carry it home. 
But I do appreciate many of my homes are kids who don't earn much pocket money and still want a pet.
The pamphlet is very simple and briefly describes housing, food, play time (taming), and health with my contact details on the back.

The container alone is about $3 from a discount shop and each pamphlet cost $2 to produce with postage and handling that's not including the food, professional labels for the food or business cards. So I make hardly anything off the actual sale of the mouse!

But I may abolish the single mouse rate, there is little point to having a single rate for a social animal. Single mouse adoptions can always be arranged in special circumstances and done at my convinience.

For advertisement I've put up flyers at local produce stores, community noticeboards (places around schools are favoured), adds in the local paper, free online classifieds sites. 
Most of my buyers didn't even know registered breeders existed! I do have some great buyers and have found awesome homes, it's unfortunate some have spoilt it for others.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

hmmm... i like the idea of the care sheet. especially if you are dealing with first time mouse mommies/daddies.

I agree with the whole pet thing tho. i look at craigslist almost daily and its so depressing that people can keep an animal for 1-9 years and then up and say 'eh im done with this pet ill just pawn it off on some person for a load of money and get something else" AND not even care as to what life that animal may end up having. i mean i understand CERTAIN select cases of loved one passed so you now have to find homes for thier animals but c'mon i dont have money, no time, too much to do, allergic, doesnt get along well with others.... HELLO this stuff doesnt just happen overnight. Most pets that you see for sale are either breeders or fly by the seat of your pants pets. I bought spike (ball python) from a breeder and i felt sorry for the poor little guys/gals i couldnt take. couped up in a tiny, dark, plastic tub with enough room for them and a water bowl no hides or anything. spike has a huge tank with stuff he doesnt even use. 
I have bought a total of 3 ferret cages in 3 yrs just to give our ferrets more room since we arent home as much to let them run like we used to. I feel that people who are so quick to give away a family pet (no matter what pet it is) would be just as quick to give away their own kid(s) which is even sadder. 
OR you get the idiots with the 30 ft snakes and poisonous not local snakes that just say wow i cant mange this pet anymore so i will just set it free to terrorize the neighborhood.

ok... ithink im done venting...


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## icedmice (Oct 4, 2009)

It's the reality of the situation. If you believe all pet homes should care for their pets and appreciate them as much as you do then you will be dissapointed. Many don't place the value of an animal as high as we would like. Beats me why they'd want a pet to start with but people a funny creatures, selfish at times and don't usually have enough foresight to realise the pet is also a responsibility. It is fustrating for someone like me.

I'm not saying everyone should put the needs of thier pet before their own or there is a specific way of looking after a mouse that is better than another. It's just hard to get people to stop and think, some people may think they are ready for a mouse but when that day comes realise it is not the right pet for them. It may even be a case of that particular mouse wasn't a right match for them and they weren't prepared to accept the mouse if it was skitty, or bit, even though the fact remains they are prey animals and that is normal prey animal behaviour when placed in a threatening or unfamiliar situation.

Things buyers (exhibition and pet homes) should be asking themselves at every mouse purchase is:

What do I expect from a pet mouse? (giving them realistic expectations)
What happens if they don't live up to my expectations?
Why do I really want this pet/animal?
Am I prepared for the responsibility of owning a pet/animal?

It is also possible to have the complete opposite and have someone go overboard with mouse care!
I've seen some pretty extremist mouse fanciers and I wouldn't purchase from them on the basis that I'd like my freedom to choose to care for my pet the best way I can and not feel critisised when I do something differently. People like this are self destructive, they may well go above and beyond in caring for their animals (which is commendable) but also end up isolating themselves or ending up in a tight clique of people who only share the same beliefs, limiting their access to more desirable specimens or new insights.

I think for myself I will look into euthanaisa as a last resort if a suitable home cannot be found. As a breeder you need to be fair on yourself as well as the animals you share your life. It isn't an ideal outcome but an outcome that aviods placing the animal in the wrong home, accidental breeding from an unsuitable animal or creating excessive work for the breeder.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

i have someone like that lol she has been waiting for a month for this litter im expecting to pop in a few days. Shes asked me a thousand questions and has her mouse home all prepared and is now just waiting on me to let her know when she can come pick out her fuzzies.lol i told her i only had 1 definitely going to have babies and to my shock she said thats ok if i have to wait i will :shock:  Thats a devoted person there!

But on a side note you could give your pet to the most SEEMINGLY wonderful people and home...BUT... there are still those that can mistreat animals behind closed doors. and never talk to you again which is ashame that there are sickos out there like that and we as "sellers" can really only do so much. I read on a a clasified site for animals and other items about a man who was taking his 2 kids.. KIDS to go pick up animals so it seemed like they were going to great homes and then killing the cats and dogs


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