# colour vs temprement



## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

(i'll apologise now i am a tad dislexic and lazy so can't be bothered to spell check every reply i give )

when i had rats i had a few over the years and in the end alway had russian blue agutis because i found them to be the most lovely temprement of all in general...

have any of you found a particular preferance when it comes to colour and temprement or do you find it's not that easy to judge?

do you go for colour or temperament or health or try to get a good overview of them all.

what breeds/colour have you found to be the healthyest?


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

I have Satins, Shorthair (petshop style), and Angoras they all seem to have about the same attitude. But you also have to mess with them regulary just like you would a dog or cat. I handle mine like 5- 10 mins every day. just to keep them sociable.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

so you'd say with mice it's totaly down to interaction?
with my rats i did have a couple over the years that no mater what you did were just moody, one male i had once hated being out of his cage (we'd never done anything bad to him) he was a hooded, and it just put me off them, and conversly have had a few that were just lovely right from the onset.

unfortunatly russian blue agutis i found to be not only the nicest temprement but the un-healthyest, with all four of them getting mammery tumors at arond 2 years. different litters and breeders.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

eh... some. others can just have an attitude no matter what you do. lol


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

I've found my American Brindles to be THE sweetest and friendliest with minimal interaction...I've heard other brindle breeders agree with me.


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

is that what you keep? see i realy like silver/lilac colour, but like i said in rats that colour have a predisposition for cancers.


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

I do keep brindles among several other varieties including Lilac. I don't think any one color of mice is more prone to cancer then others. It seems to be more the lines themselves. Pet store lines have tumors like crazy but so far the show mice seem to have way better odds due to breeding the cancers out of lines. That being said certain colors do have their own "issues" when homozygous that cause death and other issues like anemia in certain sexes, etc...but mostly those issues are only seen by the breeders and the mice die before they are viable or mature.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

gothling said:


> is that what you keep? see i realy like silver/lilac colour, but like i said in rats that colour have a predisposition for cancers.


Really? I've never heard that. Hmm...


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Personally I believe that with mice, temprement is 90% breeding and 10% handling. When you have had as many mice as what I and a fair few of the people on this forum have had, you only get a very short amount of time per day to handle them.

Exhibition mice are generally less scatty and much more handleable, because that trait has to be bred for otherwise they would be escaping at shows and savaging the judges! lol
And Ironically it is the exhibition type mice that get handled generally alot less than peoples pet mice.

I have kept a fair few different colours in my time, and not noticed a huge difference, and wouldn't generally link that to temprement. What I have seen though are so many pet breeders on here talk about getting bitten by mice, but then breed from them anyway because they are pretty!! Bitey, scatty mice do not stay in a show breeders stud.

I'm not getting at anyone in particular, and yes, I am making a 'generalisation'... but I do believe what makes the biggest difference in a mouses temprement is husbandry.

W xx


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I think some of it is linked to colour in pure bred varieties.I think that based on the fact that some adult male exhibition mice can always be kept together even after breeding rather than linking it to handling.I have never ever had a male champagne tan fight,not a single one.Brokens always fight once bred from which leads me to conclude that it's linked to the variety.I don't know about in the U.S.A but here many mice and rats have entered the fancy from labs.Some varieties,chinchilla mice for instance were used for tumor experiments so they are more prone to cancers.Before the internet gave much wider communication between pet breeders and fanciers these animals would never have been offered as pets but now they have been blended into pet lines because they are pretty with some inevitable results.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

I don't know that its necessarily linked to the specific color genes for most things...but more likely lines that have not been bred as long, or as strictly, for temperament. Champagne tan is a much easier color/pattern to breed than broken...brokens have to be bred for pattern which can restrict how well they can be bred for temperament.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't select for temperament only for size,shape ,colour in any variety.I don't know why the difference but there is one.


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

As a general rule, the large pale self mice have the calmest disposition. Whites, Creams, Champagnes and Silvers. In the U.K most mice from show stock are perfectly tractable.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

I think even without it being intentional...if you have 2 mice that are otherwise equal...would you not choose the more tractable one?....It's much more likely that temperament would have been a selecting factor with the colors that are easier to breed...even if it wasn't an intentional one. I, personally, have never noticed a difference in temperament in any different colors I've had...even when breeding pet store line mice. If it was color/pattern gene related, then mice of different colors from a mixed color pet store line would have different temperaments...and that's just not what I ever experienced.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

in theory Stina I suppose you would but in reality theres always a best one and that's what I would keep.I've just remembered the wild reds I had.I wanted to produce red brindles so collected an adult buck from a show.I stood about 20 inches away from the owner when he opened the maxey to show me,the mouse flew out and landed on my leg.I mated this mouse to my docile ladies and the resulting off spring were mad as hatters and took loads of handling to get tame.Tratallen had some reds from this line and I know that despite keeping them in the house and handling loads the wildness was in them.She must be many generations on now so it would be interesting to know what they are like .It's not just this line of reds either.On the plus side they have been very prolific breeders so if there are any brindle breeders still in the U.K struggling,bung a wild red in,they saved mine from extinction.Their pink eyed fawn cousins are completely docile,I don't know what to conclude about that either.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

But was it only the red offspring that were nuts?....if not, then its not the red gene. Same with fawns...they are genetically red...if they are not crazy, then it can't be the red gene itself... I have one red right now, and while she's slightly skittish, she's by no means crazy.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I can't remember now and I merged them into my unrelated fawns .Tratallen has continued with reds though so she will know whether the other colours were wild.I know she has kept a few of the cinnamons.It can't have been learned behaviour as the mothers were docile.The red brindles I have are not wild.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

just thought that I'd add they weren't crazy as such just more like nature intended and I think if they escaped they would survive in the wild.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

SarahC said:


> tratallen had some reds from this line and I know that despite keeping them in the house and handling loads the wildness was in them.She must be many generations on now so it would be interesting to know what they are like


After many generations, I still have them. They are by far my main interest!

The Reds are just as Sarah says.....mad as hatters!
When they are born, they handle very well until they open their eyes...... and then it's total madness, up until they are past showable and well into adulthood. They never become docile like pale selfs, just calmer than they were as youngsters.

I specifically tried extra handling of youngsters and found that it made no difference whatsoever.

The Cinnamons thrown by my reds are just as skittish, sometimes worse!

Healthwise, it's worth adding that my reds do not (or at least _have not_) suffer(ed) with all the problems that reds are said to come part and parcel with. I believe that _that_ is testament to selective breeding, in particular, SarahC's


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## gothling (Jan 6, 2011)

thank you all so much for your replies, it looks as if temprement is a lot to do with domesication like in dog wolf cross' where the skittishness comes from instinct rather than colour?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I wondered that,as in the case of the reds if the cinnamons are the same it can't be the colour but neither can it be learned because I used the red buck to my very placid fawns and brindles and then removed him.Perhaps reds and cinnamon are less far removed from their wild brethren.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

It's definitely not in the colour, it's in the line. You can change the colour of a line but you can keep the temperament. All in the breeding.

Tratallen's reds are so, so beautiful :love1

Sarah xxx


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

I agree, they are wonderfull little things and the few I have the joy to own aren't that mad either


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I was gonna say... I have had a few of those reds at my house for a night (And I will admit to handling them ALOT) and they were little sweethearts, like little puppies lol Curious, naughty, but not in the least bit wild like or hopping mad! And they were only young too.

K xx


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Tratallan's reds are very 'into' things, you open the cage and they all come climbing out, over all the sides, all at once :lol: They never bite or anything, they're perfectly handleable. I don't think they are wild, just extremely active and curious.

Sarah xxx


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

SarahC said:


> Brokens always fight once bred from which leads me to conclude that it's linked to the variety.


I have bred many Tricolours now, and they are brokens. From the early beginning these mice have been the tamest and most friendly mice compared to other varieties in my stud. 
It is not my credit, all merit for the tameness of Spl/*+ s/s goes to Mike Chiodo. I just continued what he started.

Kind regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

SarahY said:


> It's definitely not in the colour, it's in the line. You can change the colour of a line but you can keep the temperament. All in the breeding.
> 
> Tratallen's reds are so, so beautiful :love1
> 
> Sarah xxx


yes they are she has done an excellent job.The red that you both fetched from Swindon which was Jack Hartley breeding was just the same.You had to open the lid and put your eyes to the crack before you could safely feed.Very very nimble.


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