# Beautiful litter, BUT...



## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

What happened to the tails? I have never, EVER had a litter of mice with such short tails. Both parents have decent sized tails... so what happened here?

Plus, I'm still awful at colors so if I have any listed as something you think is different, PLEASE tell me! 

Females:

Satin PEW









Satin PEW









Champagne Piebald









Satin Agouti Piebald









Males:

Black Piebald









I just realized that the eye color on this one is black, therefore he cannot be fawn, right? So what is he?
Satin Fawn Piebald









PEW









Champagne Piebald









Satin Fawn Piebald









Dove Piebald









I am in LOVE with these babies... except for the short tails.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Are these all the same litter? Mum may be tail-nibbling, though the ends of the tails don't look quite like that, either. You've got a serious variety of colors there! I'm guessing you've got A/a and a/a, with E/e and e/e, P/p and P/p or p/p, and both parents C/c, both s/s, and Sa/sa and sa/sa? But all that's just a guess if this is all the same litter. In that case, you'd be likely to get pew, agouti, argente, black, dove, red, and fawn. Champagne is possible, given that it could easily be carried recessively, but argente is more likely, given that you've got other pink-eyed babies and an agouti baby. It's pretty hard to tell the difference until they get older and furrier.


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## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

I'll be completely honest in saying I have absolutely no idea what those genetic codes mean. 

But yes, these are all from the same litter. 

And for the tail nibbling... that's what I thought too but none of them are ouchy, sore, red, nothing. I didn't pay a lot of attention them up until this point because mom is very skittish... so to be perfectly honest I don't know.

This is mom:









And this is dad - we had determined on his baby topic that he is champagne:









Plus a picture of him as a baby, because his color shows better...









Do those help at all?


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

It does seem like momma might have been nibbling. Or, there was a recessive for short tails in there somewhere.

Strange. They are lovely bubs though, I'd try breeding a pair when they grow up and see if the tail thing passes on.


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## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

Glancing back over the pictures I realized that this little baby has black eyes, and therefore must not be fawn, right?

So what would he be?

Everything I have read says that fawn and argente must both have pink eyes. So I have no idea now!


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

That looks like one of the does I sent you. If so, the black eyed one is probably a recessive yellow. The pink eyed one can be called fawn, but is also probably a recessive yellow. I recently replaced my ry's after a draft got them. I managed to find three ry mice from the same shop that have black eyes.


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## Snowkitty (Nov 24, 2011)

aww the pie's are adorable, I love that little black one! if you werent too far away id come smuggle them to my place


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

How can there be black eyes if both parents have the pink eyed double recessive? I'm puzzled about that! Is one of them a c^h (himalayan or siamese) in disguise? the mom's coat look really weird to me; all streaky and uneven...


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

My guess is that dad is a c-dilute of some interesting variety, like ce/c. Mum looks pretty much exactly like the rys I've got (argente-based, btw). Going out on a limb, if the mum is related to the ones from Jadeguppy, she's likely your A/a s/s sa/sa p/p C/c e/e (meaning pink-eyed satin fawn covering argente piebald carrying non-agouti, full-colored but carrying pew), while dad may be a rather dark bone, black diluted to that odd champagne color (a/a s/s Sa/sa P/p ce/c E/e) or he could be agouti carrying non-agouti like mum was.

Either way, that doesn't tell you much about why your babies have short tails. If mum and pop are related, it could be something weird they were carrying. If they're not, I'd guess mum was nibbling when they were born, and it's just healed really really well.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

What about that black eyed baby?


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## Bella (Aug 15, 2010)

Okay, I'll try to answer everything here.

Jadeguppy, the doe is a daughter to one of the mice you sent me.

Moustress, I'll try to explain this without getting confusing. The doe (of this litter)'s sire is a black tan. HE came from a pied black tan pet store doe - so no idea the history on that one. I believe the sire of his litter was a pied agouti. The doe (of this litter) is out of a pied fawn, from a pet store.

The sire of this litter is also out of that fawn doe from the pet store.

So unfortunately nothing can trace back very far.


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## Kage Davies (Dec 21, 2008)

They look like tail nibblers to me! I have some too atm. That's where the blunted end comes from. It doesn't always come up red and sore looking.

I have a load of those yellow black eyed cropping up in litters of fawn and argente. I'm pretty sure its a red dilute of some kind.


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