# Foster fathers...



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Hey all,

After reading in so many places that a male mouse WILL kill any offspring that aren't his own, I obviously never leave a doe in kindle in with a buck which isn't the father.

I had a black fox doe in with a buck for three weeks. I had to cull the buck she was with and she didn't look pregnant at all, so I popped her in with another buck. Cleaning out time came round again a week later and I lifted the nest to find two fat, squiggly kittens which are now about two days old. Their foster father is currently being extremely attentive to his doe and adoptive daughters; keeping them warm himself, tucking the hay round them and bringing them food. I'm sure he'll have mated the doe again but with only two kittens in this litter I can't see it being a strain for her.

I certainly wouldn't want to suggest that this would happen every time but just wanted to share this little story, as I thought it was rather sweet


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I will sometimes put male ASFs in with females who are about to litter. Male ASFs are extremely subordinate to females, and are amazing litter warmers. They are just great fathers and are much more helpful than, in my opinion, mouse nannies.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

Cool thought. Do you have tame ASFs?


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't know how long mice can remember something for, but maybe 5 days before birth was long enough for the buck to consider them his. If she'd already had her litter and you put a strange buck in I would have thought there'd have been carnage. Or maybe he's just soft


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

jadeguppy said:


> Cool thought. Do you have tame ASFs?


I do. You still can't really hold them much, but mine do not bite, and enjoy cheek and belly rubs often.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Ive had a simaler experance. I had a pregnant doe due to go as food, and when she gave birth it was apperant 3 were siamese as they were light pink where as the others were darker pink. so i took the siamese ones and sent mum and babies off. I put them in with my feeder group who one of the girls was pregnant and the other had just had a litter removed for food the day befor and my male JD was in with them as well as 2 not yet pregnant girls. My male LOVED those babies, he was allways washing them and snuggling up with them.

I asume he thought they were his, as he had been matting with the females and then babies turn up as they do. I would guess it would be a diffrent matter if i had put him in with strange mum and litter. As if he had been mating the female and she had a litter i dont see how he would know they werent his. 
Unless some clever males have invented a DNA test :lol:

Also last week split out 2 pregnant females as one ate anothers litter but didnt know which black female did it. as i had no space opne with in with one of my males and the other went in with another male. The one who wasnt the pinky eater was in he house with the male and babies and all was well and the one who was the pinky eater ate her litter but the male stayed away form the house while she was doing it and went back in with her after they were gone.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

SarahY said:


> Hey all,
> 
> After reading in so many places that a male mouse WILL kill any offspring that aren't his own, I obviously never leave a doe in kindle in with a buck which isn't the father.
> 
> ...


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

oh er what happened there ? my reply to your post is in the middle of yours, looking like you wrote it !!


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

Wight Isle Stud said:


> oh er what happened there ? my reply to your post is in the middle of yours, looking like you wrote it !!


Looks like you accidentally quoted SarahY and posted your reply there


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I've had similar experiences a couple times before. Most recently I removed a doe from a young buck's cage since he couldn't seem to do the job, and put her in with one of my experienced bucks. Much to my surprise she had babies 1 week later, and she didn't even look pregnant. But the buck has been very attentive, warming the babies and such.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

I've had accidental foster fathers like that several times, either because I didn't know the male was male (too much poof to see scrotum) or because she'd moved on to another buck without looking pregnant. In all the cases, the fathers, whether real or foster, took excellent care of the babies. Sitting on the nest, defending them from me, generally being a better nanny than any does I've had nanny (and I do, unlike others, as my pet-types do get tired more easily, and I try to keep as many of the young as they can healthily handle, being a feeder breeder as well).


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Bucks don't count at all; if babies start pooting forth from a doe that he's in with, they gotta be his, of course.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i have heard about this, a breeder im talking to hand raises some babies, and his male who he hand raised looks after another hand raised baby, its adorable :3


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## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

As Moustress says, bucks can't count. Not only that, but they can't distinguish difference in size! If you have seen my post "Oops", you will know about my surprise litter. Yesterday, I put the surviving youngster from my first Siamese does' litter in with the new ones, (carefully supervised) as it is a lot smaller than the babies from Heather's litter. Bubble (my buck) picked it up, gave it a good wash, and placed it very gently with the others. Ok, so he is the sire, and a very good dad, but you would think he might have noticed that it has fur!


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## ripleysmice (Nov 5, 2011)

see now im a tad confuzzled.. cause i thought you had to take the male out or he will eat the babies?.. so if i keep my buck with my doe.. and they have pinkies. he wont eat them?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

No, bucks do a grand job of raising their offspring. However, you should be aware that if you do leave the buck in he will impregnate the doe immediately after after she has given birth and you will have another litter three weeks after the first. This is not usually an ideal situation as the doe has enough drain on her body feeding the first litter, without carrying a second.


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## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

I can verify that. Meena had her second litter on Thursday - only four the first time, but 12 this time. The only good thing is that the pregnancy lasted longer than normal. Meena went 25 days, and Minnie (who I put in the buck's cage instead of her sister's by mistake after her first litter was born dead and made a disgusting mess in the nesting box - well it was 4am!) managed a full four weeks.


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## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

My favourite doe is currently caring for a mixed litter; two of her own which are a week old, and four of her sister's which are younger. I was cage cleaning this morning and, to prevent the two bigger ones wandering off, I put them in the cage with my two young bucks (It's Ok, they aren't quite six weeks old, and are about to be separated, before anyone comments). One of the bucks picked up the babies, put them in the nest he shares with his brother, gave them a wash, and then settled down to "cuddle" them. Is this normal behaviour? He can't think they are his as he hasn't been with a doe, but it looked very sweet.


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