# what do you do with male babies?



## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i was just wondering, because some people said they seperate male babies when old enough, others dont, i live in britain by the way so if you live in the US the mice here are more calmer with eachother and wont kill eachother, and my mum has housed male together, but i was wondering how you do it...


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## Viry (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that statement is far from true. They might be calmer, I don't know, but if you keep two or more males together - no matter what age you introduce them - there might come a day when they snap. I had two males that worked perfectly fine together. But I've also had two in which they started fighting one day and the weaker one didn't make it.

To answer your question though, I'd say try and keep them separated if you can, but if you can't, make sure you have a big enough cage for them all and as few toys as possible to start out with, then carefully introduce toys etcetera. If they start fighting over the toy, take it back then try introducing it later. And try not keeping them together for too long, especially not if you notice signs of fighting... Also, make sure none of the mice get 'bullied' and isn't allowed to use the water bottle etcetera.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

kittygirl991 said:


> i live in britain by the way so if you live in the US the mice here are more calmer with eachother and wont kill eachother


Well let's start by nipping that fallacy in the bud (in the nicest possible way).
Male mice is male mice and *any* of them are likely to tear each other to shreds. That's not something anyone wants to see x


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

yeah but i dont know... since many different people have different opinions, most people say they get along fine, especialy if they've grown up together, and my mum housed them together

http://www.fancymice.info/keepingmales.htm


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

We know your mum housed them together! We know! However, your mum is not "most people". And even the link you posted to says "can". In italics. For emphasis. I keep my weaned males together for two weeks after weaning, tops, to determine which I'll keep and which are going to my local snake breeder. Six weeks of age is still old enough that I've seen some serious scraps. No major issues, but definitely bloody noses, rumps. Most show breeders cull male babies well before weaning, in the first few days of life. That way, the female babies, who are more useful to a breeder, have better access to milk. Male babies have been known to be greedy, drinking more than their share and contributing to the size difference between male and female weanlings.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

well personaly i would not like to cull the babies, unless i badly needed to, and plus i would only keep a female out of the litter and the others, including the males, would be given away when old enough, so they wont be together for long :/


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

Why don't you follow the responses of people who have breeding for quite some time and seperate your males, as you are supposed to do?

For the average person with mice whose background they have no knowledge of, keeping male mice together is probably going to be an awful, bloody mistake. It's one thing if you've had your line going for several generations, and have been breeding (whether accidentally or purposefully) for males that can cohabit peacefully, but you haven't.


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## Kallan (Aug 16, 2009)

No difference in mouse temperament between here and the States I'm afraid!

I have kept males from the same litter together, but once they start fighting you can't house them with each other any more  So if you choose to keep them together, you always have to have that at the back of your mind and have a space that you can separate them into.

I neuter males I'm keeping as pets, and most of those can get along with each other.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

Even the site you posted, which was copyrighted in 2003, continually states that the males often end up fighting. Can you house three and four week old males together, yes. Do they have a high probablility of fighting, drawing blood, and possibly killing each other when they get older, yes. Know the high probablility that choosing to house them together much past weaning will often end up in injury and possible death, why would you take that chance? Seriously, why do you want to purposly bring male mice into this world only to purposly put them in a situation that very likely will eventually turn into something akin to cock fighting or dog fighting? You are continually getting the same answer from current, high quality breeders, but continually ask the same question in hopes of a different answer. Why do you want to risk it? Making bin style housing can be very inexpensive and ensures yo don't risk the lives of the male mice. If you know this pet store owner so well, why can't you get some used cages from him?


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I see that you keep making reference to how you're going to give the males away, do you plan on pets or feeder? Because frankly, I don't care HOW popular mice are in the UK areas, but you're not going to find ppl continuously wanting smelly male mice, that they will need to put in individual cages. If they are going to be for feeders anyways, find someone who needs pinkies, and cull some immediately (when the litter size is too large for the mother, or whatever criteria you're going to use.) If they're gonna die, you might as well (or get someone else to) bump them off right away, for the health of the mother, and for the other litter mates.

Do you have anything like craigslist.com in the UK? Its basically a site where ppl post used items in your local area, and you email or call them arranging trade/purchase for their things. I've picked up an ENORMOUS cage ($35) for my (future) rats this way, not to mention next week I'm going to be picking up a 30 gal and 10 gal with lids for a total of $40. Petco does occasionally do $ per gallon sales over here, where if the tank is 10 gal, you pay $10. 20 gal=$20. 40 gal=$40. Etc... Local papers might also be a good place to start looking for cheap tanks. Or you can save up your allowance (job money, whatever) and just go ahead and buy the bins mentioned above. Ebay? Have you tried that?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

kittygirl991 said:


> yeah but i dont know... since many different people have different opinions, most people say they get along fine, especialy if they've grown up together, and my mum housed them together


It's just not realistic.You have to make allowances for male aggression.It's poor practice to promote male mice as pets that can live together.If you are breeding to supply pets you should be promoting groups of females to the new owners not passing them a potential problem.You will soon use up all available homes for male mice.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

Ive housed males tougher in the past *HOWEVER this was very rare* most of my males (id say 98%) couldent be trusted tougher, arguing normaly starts with my boys around 12weeks allthough i brought a male at 7weeks and him and his brothers were allready arguing. I think it depends more on the individual mouse temperment wheather or not they will tolerate another male. But once a male has been around females ive never been able to put them near another male. I had a pair of males who had lived tougher for a year untill i bred one and made the mistake of putting him back with his male compaion (i didnt know any better) and the next day had to take the small male to the vets to be putdown as he was badly attacked by his former friend. Ive had males that have been tougher for a week or two with no problems then arguing one day then the next day a mouse severly attacked and lucky not to lose his tail and nuts.
*That was when i was new to mice and just didnt know better and now i know better from both experance and from advice form breeder on here, i now keep my boys seperate once ive made my pick*
But if you are determined to try it make sure you have cages for each male if needed and you will have to keep a close eye on them and be prepared to either pay out for vet bills to heal or putdown any who get attacked. I would say its less common to find males who will happily live tougher, so just dont risk it or as Kallan has said get them neutered, but thats my opyion from what ive seen over the last 2 years.

As for what i do with males, if im not actualy after males i cull them at day 1 and give them to my friend as reptile food. I got stuck once with 6 males as i wanted a male , and a few people wanted a male mouse so i kept all the males, by the time they were 3weeks the people who asked me for a male mouse changed there minds and wanted females due to males smelling more and the high risk of fighting if they had more than one. So i was left with 5 homless males, after weeks of advertising on forums, in local shops and in the local paper i found 1 pet home with a friend and the rest went to my friend as food for his reptiles. Pet shops by me dont sell live mice only dead mice for food, so i would rather they go to my friend who i know will end it quick for them. If im looking for males i will cull any at day 1 that look like they are the wrong colour and the rest i will keep with mum untill around 4-5weeks then move them to a new cage and at 7weeks make my final pick and send the rest off for food.
Ive found males just do not find home most of the time, ive only ever been able to home males to people i allready know or to someone who wants to breed.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i kinda know the family line, in the petshop i got maisie/milly from, there brothers were in there, and they were fine together, snuggled in a lil nest, i dont agree on culling, killing a poor baby on its first day of life? and my mum used to get her mice from the local pet shop and house them together, males, and they didnt fight she said


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

theres not enough room in my bedroom for 5-10 cages :/ i cant put them no where else because dogs and cats are in the rest of my house plus, i havnt got the money for lotsa cages


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

hold up you just posted that you guessed you would have to cull males then and that you mum has a snake but its big and you uncle has a raptile as well, but you dont know how to find other people who have reptiles? (i was just about to reply to that post when it said there had been a new post) Now you have deleated that post and are now saying you dont agree with it??

You realy need to make up your mind. you cant base things on what 1 person said, yes SOME males will tolerate living with other males not the majority, and this is not something you can garentiee, so you need to be able to seperate the male if or when they argue., dont forget mice in petshops are still babies just beacuse the brother get in while young doesnt mean they will when older, also if you only know your girls and there litter brothers you know nothing about the line, for that you need to know parents and grand parent at least.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> i dont agree on culling, killing a poor baby on its first day of life?


Surely it's better to humanely euthanise baby bucks than watch them rip each other apart when they hit sexual maturity?!



> ...theres not enough room in my bedroom for 5-10 cages :/


Then I'm really sorry, but you shouldn't breed mice. I know you're desperately clinging to this notion that you can have a cage of bucks and they'll live together happily ever after, but that is so rarely the case. You can't just hope for the best, you need to be prepared for the worst. There aren't homes out there for male mice so you will be stuck with them and, if you can't seperate them, there's every chance they will kill each other.



> and my mum used to get her mice from the local pet shop and house them together, males, and they didnt fight she said


I know, you keep telling us! I've bred hundreds of litters, so have most of the other breeders on here who are trying to help, please believe us when we tell you that *MALES GETTING ALONG TOGETHER IS VERY, VERY RARE!*!!


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

no own is thrying to be harsh or anything but you keep going on about what you mum (one person) did years ago compaired to what many people who breed now are advising. If you dont have space or cant afford to house extra mice right now id suggest waiting untill you can, if you cant afford a cage how will u pay a vet bill for an injured male? At the end of the day its up to you how you breed and house you mice but if you wont or cant be prepared to propperly deal with the worst outcome are you realy doing them justest?

What would you do if a male or female for that matter attacked another mouse? 
(i had a female once who would suddenly attack other mice)


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

Kittygirl you said in the last thread about whether you should breed that you had room and money enough to breed. The truth is that you do not have that room, especially if you are unwilling to cull. What happens if you get a litter of 12 males - who CANNOT be housed together? Thinking in purely practical terms, you've been told that male mice are much harder to sell than females.

We came to this last time but why are you so determined to breed mice now? You would be much better off (and so would your mice) if you a) held off on breeding until you have time to socialise with potentially a dozen babies every day; b) held off until you had the money and space for enough cages; and c) held off until you were older, more mature, and therefore more willing to do the research and to listen to the advise of people who have been breeding for years--people who are NOT your mother.

I honestly don't understand why it is so important to breed right NOW, when your responses here clearly show you aren't ready.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

Mice are HIGHLY territorial, no matter what, now in all fairness I HAVE kept groups of brothers together long after sexual maturity, and asside from minor scuffles and dominance arguements, never had a problem, HOWEVER if you do plan to keep brothers together, you CANNOT introduce females at any point, or even let them SMELL one, because then you'll have more problems than you want to deal with.

breeding males HAVE to be kept alone, or with females, once they get alittle action, it's messes up their little brains and they think they're big and bad :roll:

ETA: that I have even had FEMALES that HAD to be housed alone, or they would fight with other females just as bad as males fighting, infact the first and only case I had of one of my mice killing another, was a female who killed her sister.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

Maybe it's time for everyone to istop answering this poster, I mean, you are all typing wonderful long paragraphs to her, but all you are doing is making her write a sentence or two refuting all your proven, sound information. I'm glad all this info is compiled on here like this but it's not serving its intended purpose at all.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

GibblyGiblets said:


> Mice are HIGHLY territorial, no matter what, now in all fairness I HAVE kept groups of brothers together long after sexual maturity, and asside from minor scuffles and dominance arguements, never had a problem, HOWEVER if you do plan to keep brothers together, you CANNOT introduce females at any point, or even let them SMELL one, because then you'll have more problems than you want to deal with.
> 
> breeding males HAVE to be kept alone, or with females, once they get alittle action, it's messes up their little brains and they think they're big and bad :roll:
> 
> ETA: that I have even had FEMALES that HAD to be housed alone, or they would fight with other females just as bad as males fighting, infact the first and only case I had of one of my mice killing another, was a female who killed her sister.


thank you, see it can be done, and i know not to introduce them defiently  dont worry bout that im not re-breeding the sons, they will only be in my care for a short while

and with culling both me and mum dont agree with it and how are we suppose to kill them anyway? and im not stocking them in my freezer with my food ( ew )


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

You have to be prepared for if it doesn't work.You don't have enough available cages.I run young males together and at the first hint of trouble they are removed either for breeding ,feeding or freezing.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> thank you, see it can be done, and i know not to introduce them defiently dont worry bout that im not re-breeding the sons, they will only be in my care for a short while


Right, this is my last post on the subject, I can't really be bothered any more. If you want to take stupid risks that's up to you.

1) No one said it was impossible to get males living together, we're saying it's RARE and that you should be PREPARED for disaster.

2) You say you won't have them long, but what are you going to do when you're stuck with 10 males that no one wants to home because male mice reek?

Despite what I said on your other thread, where I said that age didn't come into readiness for breeding, in my opinion you are not ready and won't be for years. I'm not trying to be horrible, but for the welfare of your mice and yourself, I'd strongly suggest you think about it again when you have plenty of space and money, and are a little less stubborn


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i will give them to my local pet shop, they will take them, and i shall be prepared, i think i have a spare cage or two lying about and i can buy more if needed


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

has you local pet shop actualy said they will take them? male mice are harder to sell and some will never sell to a pet home, I dout you local pet shop will want a whole litter of males especialy if they still have some male mice allready as it would be bad business to get in more animals if they are not selling well and you allready have plenty. No pet shop by me will take in mice, so its best to make sure yours will keep taking them from you.


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## GibblyGiblets (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm not saying I agree with you, Kittygirl991, because honestly I don't, I do believe you need to read up a bit more, I have bred mice on and off for 12 years now(currently I have none, but want some badly!!) but right NOW I am not financally able to prove for even a few mice, I did YEARS of research before I got my first mouse, a rescued pregnant doe who gave birth to 12 still-borns.

first time mouse owners can get excited with their first babies, I did, i did not sleep for over a week with my first sucessful litter, and wanted to bug them constantly.which should not be done if your momma doesn't know you.

Mice can get expensive, water bottles, wheels, toys, food, it's not cheap, I've had up to 40 mice at a time, and it cost me on average of over 100$ every two months to keep them fed and happy.

a GOOD breeders doesn't just "give them to a petshop", that's irrisponsible.sorry but it is, you should establish a market for your mice, It took me several years to get a good market going, but once I got out of "regular" colors, I did good selling my mice for pets homes.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

May I ask how it is that you feel comfortable sending males back to the petshop (where many are fed to snakes, alive, and many others suffer in the hands of poorly educated owners), but you are not comfortable safely and humanely euthanizing mice? While I understand that it feels different to kill a mouse yourself than to know that it will be killed by someone else, doing it yourself allows you to do it properly. If you would feel better giving them to the shop, perhaps you should do so at weaning. Separate them from Mum and ladies at day 28 of life, and bring them to the shop at the next available opportunity, so that you take no more risk than necessary.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

my pet shop should i take them, my aunties uncle works there and he said the owner only takes in babies but he does take animals in, i have bred hamsters and my babies went there, but i shall ask him


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

So in other words they don't know about the mice yet. A lot of pet shops will only sell females, and the ones that do sell males tend to take a while before they sell them because they smell more and people are put off by that. I think a lot of people on here are in the 'weird' group as we don't mind the smell and some even like it - normally the smell is an instant 'no' to bucks as pets.

Oh, and I don't agree with everything on the link you posted.

And it's my website.

You change your views over time... I still don't have a problem keeping my own bucks together, but I wouldn't give anyone more than one buck as a pet. The info was more for people intending to try their own bucks together but you say you're not keeping them. Although culling may seem harsh to you now, it is actually taking the place of mother nature in a much kinder way. Remember you're not just caring for the babies, but for the doe too, and large litters take a big toll on them.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

oh realy? the site owner? awsome  its helped me alot your site

well, i am 12, and theres no way i can convince my mum to kill an animal, especialy a newborn baby because it was born a boy :/ and how am i suppose to "cull" them in any humane way? not reptiles, there too cute to be eaten... and im not sure i will be able to to the male from females at day 1.. :/


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

It sounds as though breeding isn't for you or your mum. Babies don't just die through culling - you may have stillborns, you may have the doe kill/eat some or all of the babies, they may fail to thrive and fade away or simply starve if the doe doesn't produce milk. I am not saying it will happen, but you have to be prepared. The less of a burden there is on the doe, the more likely it is that the babies will do well - and one way to lessen the burden is to cull. Although mice can produce large litters, they would never raise all the babies in the wild (typically 3-4). Because we have domesticated them and they have no predators in captivity the doe will struggle on and try to raise a litter that might be 4 or more times the size than she would naturally have to cope with... just something to think about.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Maybe you should try joining the culling forum. Just, don't post anything. Instead, READ THINGS. Although, if you're dead set on not culling, then I guess you might as well not.

Is 12 supposed to be the reason of why you can't cull yourself? Maybe its just the farm girl/avid hunter/fisher talking, but so what. I've been bumping thing off since _I_ was 12. There are many humane ways to cull, but often its a matter of preference. Maybe your aunt and uncle could help you out, running a pet store prolly means that they've learned how to do it over the years. You know the cheapest way?


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

no no no, my aunties ( who is 14 -.- ) its HER uncle that works in the pet shop, and how do i cull, the easiest, quickest, less painfull for me and mice, and being 12 i dont like killing thanks, especialy not babies, i dont mind if they die without being killed, cuz its nature, they wouldnt normaly be killed by a massive giant or be kept in a tank so..


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## Fraction (Aug 29, 2011)

In nature they would live short, hard lives and probably be eaten alive, crushed, get lost from their mother, etc.

In the 'should I breed' thread you said you already had the agreement of the pet shop to take your mice.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i didnt agree, but its a %95 chance they will


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Nobody likes culling. Let's set that aside now. Nobody here enjoys humanely euthanizing their animals. Some of us, it makes us cry. It makes us hurt. It makes us feel awful. Others are more cold, resigned, because they know it's the best thing they can do for their animals. They know it's their responsibility to take care of the mice they've bred. Just like nobody enjoys cleaning catboxes, but we know it's the only way to provide a clean place for the cat to poop, and it's safer for a cat to be indoor-only (providing on average 7 years of life), nobody likes culling. Discussing the methods of culling is something done at the culling forum, and you may want to send a private message to one of the moderators of that forum so that he or she can explain the basics, or allow you entry there.


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

kittygirl991 said:


> im not sure i will be able to to the male from females at day 1.. :/


You said you had already researched how to tell the genders apart and can. You continually contradict yourself. How can you expect people to help you when you continually lie? Yes, I said lie because you have contradicted yourself many times. You want to be taken seriously as a breeders, yet you can't even keep your own story straight. You have ruined your own credibility.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't think anything else can be added which hasn't already been said, perhaps it's time to let this thread go


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## jadeguppy (Jun 4, 2011)

agreed. Can you close it SarahY?


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i didnt lie, i did look it up, i thought i could but i looked yestorday and they look the same, besides im not supposed to be some top experianced breeder, you start from somewhere, and plus i only wanna breed them once


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

also, i know its not beloning in this conversation, i did make a post for it but.... my maise, who when i got her had slight tan on her back leg, now on the back underside is all bright orange ( not the whole of her underbody ) D: whats going on?


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

I just came across this.

My buck came from a situation where bucks were fighting. He was one of the lucky ones- when I got him, he had horrible bites all over his rump. One of them abscessed, which, had I not been treating it daily since then, could have made him quite illl or killed him. As is, I empty the infection every day and it's not refilled in the past two days, so his body's almost finished healing. The other bucks may have been not quite so lucky. I never really looked.

There is no reason to risk a painful death for any mouse, no matter the gender. Either keep your males apart or don't breed.

You are very young. Do you have the income to breed? I think you should do a few more years of research and get a job first.

And, about culling. Even non-exhibition breeders cull sometimes. Most does cannot handle a litter of any more than 6. When my ladies came to me, there was a risk of them being pregnant, and I would have culled some of the litter, even as a pet-only owner. I would have brought the litters down to a size that I could keep all of the babies rather than risking them being mistreated or killed if re-homed. My does are pet shop does, and at the time, most weren't even grown. Isabel may have already had a litter.

Sometimes culling is nessecary. I don't agree with the way some breeders here do it, but if there is going to be suffering, it's nessecary. If you cannot accept that at some point you will have to do that for the good of the mouse who is dying, then you shouldn't breed. It's not cruel to put something out of its misery. It is cruel to kill without need, or to do it the wrong way.

It sounds like you and your mother aren't ready to breed PROPERLY. Anyone can breed, it takes work to do it right.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

MoonfallTheFox said:


> I just came across this.
> 
> My buck came from a situation where bucks were fighting. He was one of the lucky ones- when I got him, he had horrible bites all over his rump. One of them abscessed, which, had I not been treating it daily since then, could have made him quite illl or killed him. As is, I empty the infection every day and it's not refilled in the past two days, so his body's almost finished healing. The other bucks may have been not quite so lucky. I never really looked.
> 
> ...


I was going to post, but I dont need to, you said everything I was going to say


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

i know we arnt ready to breed yet, ive already said that


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

Let me just add one thing.
I have a suggestion that might actually help you get what we are saying. 
A good way of learning how much work it is to run a breeding operation..
is to volunteer.
Your aunt's uncle has a pet shop? You should say " I love mice and want to learn, will you take me on ? I will provide free labor:3"

That is what I did and it shows you very quicklly, the reality of the workload.

Just trying to help.


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## lillymay (Nov 2, 2011)

hi, it puzzles me why people come on here asking advice from the experts and then poo pa what they are told, take the advice given and be thankfull, and to be honest haveing read lots on here about breeding mice i think it best to leave it to the breeders who know exactly what there doing. while here could i have a little advice please i got 3 lovely little ladys yesterday whom im so enjoying watching, but i have now seen 1 of them mount from behind 1 of her sisters lots of sqeaking and then they run of, ive looked at there undersides and they do appear to both have rows of dots (i presum nipples) is this normal behaviour because i have no desire at all to have any babys, thanks for reading, D


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Does do sometimes display the behaviour you have described when asserting their dominance. If you can see nipples on them all then they should settle down soon after they've established a pecking order. If you're worried you might have a buck by mistake, feel free to post pics so people here can help.


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## lillymay (Nov 2, 2011)

hi, thank you, i think they all are girlies, but thought id ask, thanks again


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

im too young to work anywhere, im 12 :/ and he dosnt own it, he works there... and i am listening, you have changed my mind, im not breeding yet, im learning more first...


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

What I mean is you can volunteer.
I'm not sure about laws everywhere, but in the USA you can volunteer at any age, so long as it keeps within child labor laws.

Either way you could get tips from the pet store owner on local people who might be willing to have a "open house"

When I was learning how to breed show birds a few club members would let me help them out in exchange for a internship of sorts.


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

Most places won't deny assistance with cleaning cages.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

im not sure about cleaning cages :/ ive got loads of those to do at hoem anyway :lol:


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

Well I had about 20 finches I kept for breeding. Most in same sex pairs while I was learning about them in detail.
That left ten cages for them.And feeding/watering and checking health. I would rotate days. Two on Monday, another two cages on Tuesday,so on and so on.
That way I would still have time after school to bike down to the "mama bird's shop" or to a long standing member of the bird club's house. She even started teaching me how to hand feed little babies. You start with cages so that they know your actually interested and you work up to the cooler things from there. After about 5 years I was breeding show winning birds and helping raise some of the more endangered species like the Hyacinth Macaw. If you make mice your passion then you will be noticed by the people who also have mice in your area (if you make a point of being around) and someone who is more connected and has done a lot of leg work to get where they are will help you. ^ ^


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## MoonfallTheFox (Nov 12, 2011)

^that.

And if you don't like cages, why would you breed? I have a number of cages to clean without breeding ANY animals.


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

erm, i never said i dont like cages  i have loads, 2 tanks with hamsters, 2 with mice, and a massive cage with rats


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

You did say you weren't sure about cleaning cages, when that was suggested as a way to start learning about the process. Internships and Apprenticeships don't start with the fun parts. They start with the menial tasks, both because you must realize they cannot be avoided in the trade and because the person you're learning from is too busy doing the difficult stuff. It's that way with plumbing, animal rehab, drafting, legal work...


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## kittygirl991 (Sep 16, 2011)

erm and besides, where i am, they dont except random people to work in there pet shop, let alone a 12 year old


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