# The new kid



## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

(I'm sorry, I don't know why this is upside down!)










This is supposedly the same mouse I posted in the genetics thread...odd. So much for the splashed, huh? The photos have warm tones. The mouse looks more grey/silver in person. As it moves, a chocolatey brown seems to show as the undercoat. This is new to me, but then again, I raised mice in a time when only the standard PEW and agouti was available. I'm assuming this is satin dove? The coat seems to shimmer, and changes shades at every angle. The coat is NOT this warm. More of a silvery blue.

Call me insane, but I'm having trouble sexing this mouse. My males had very obvious testicles at this stage, this one does not. But the distance between the genitalia is awfully far...this is kind of mortifying. In rats I could sex them at a week old. : / Can male mice *cough* retract their testicles when stressed? The spacing looks male, but I see no testicles.










So, thinking out loud here, I very much love the shimmering satin coat. I'm thinking back to rat genetics though and remember blue rats often threw black babies. What colour female should I attempt to seek out (if I ever see a mouse for sale again!) that would avoid black if dove works a similar way? Marked black is fine - I would be able to tell the babes apart! My hopeful colours of chocolate and red likely won't be happening from this young one.  But fawn would be lovely.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

This mouse has black eyes, which means it's not dove. It doesn't look like blue, but if the photos are warmer than life, I'm not sure. Blue is normally a dark charcoal grey, with black eyes, while dove is a lighter grey with pink eyes. Also, my guess is that the stripes we saw before were caused by the satin coat being wrinkled up while he was bathing himself or otherwise contorting. But who knows?


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I saw this site which confused me: http://www.afrma.org/miceself.htm

Could it be that Canada's variety has black eyes? Though I do love a good mystery.  The colour seems to depend on the light, as looking at him from here, 10 feet away, dim light, it looks like the photo. But under lamp light it looks quite like the blue coat of a rat. Still excited about this satin!


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Is this that goofy lilac/dove thing all over again? :lol:


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm new! 
Last night I began wishing I wound up with a simpler colour. He's beautiful, whatever he is. He, assuming his testicles ever show up. o.0 Just looking up what doves throw, it really looks like black or PEW for the most part. I'm hesitant to look for a c-dilute, especially after reading about Sarah's experience with not breeding dove to black or silver. Playing matchmaker is tough with this one!


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## morning-star (Apr 9, 2011)

He/she looks lilac-ish but I'm not all convinced... it's hard to tell because of the light!

Does it look kinda like this? (this is a Lilac)









also if you're unsure of sex post a clear photo of it's bum and we can try to sex it for you.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Kind of!




























Sorry for the poop. : / Poor mouse was not liking this one bit.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Light is too bad for colour help but that's definitely a buck


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## morning-star (Apr 9, 2011)

You have a boy!

Looks like his colour changes with every photo! :lol:


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Man. Dove buck huh? Yeah I'm sorry about the lighting, it was natural light this time too.  Very happy he did not go in with my girls then!

Thanks guys for clearing that up!  I don't think I'll ever get an accurate shot of this mouse. Everything I take looks so different!


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

It's not a dove, dove is pale bluey grey with pink eyes (well, _everywhere_ in the world except the AFRMA!). This is a dove:










It doesn't look lilac either, I would guess at stone (called beige in the USA) satin.

Edit: Just to be completely clear, most of the world's mouse fanciers refer to a pink eye dilute black as dove (a/a p/p) and a black eyed blue-chocolate as lilac (a/a b/b d/d). AFRMA, for some reason, has these names the other way round


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Haha is the AFRMA not a good source of info? I figured since I'm in southern Ontario, if they have black eyed doves, it'd a likely match, but if they completely made that up then you must be right!



















He looks a lot like these mice, especially the second photo, though this one is called "cream" which is a new colour to me. It's that hue change that's so confusing as he's not uniform at all. I wonder if his offspring would reveal any clues?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

There's nothing wrong with the AFRMA information, it just doesn't match anyone else's in the case of dove and lilac :lol:

In the second picture you've just posted those black eyed mice are stone (or beige to you lot across the pond) of varying shades and the pink eyed one is a champagne. Stone and champagne are very similar, I've often thought stone could be shown as a black eyed champagne, if it was allowed.

He looks to have a paler belly than top so he could be some kind of diluted recessive-red based marten sable thing, but it is common for selfs to have paler bellies unless they've been selectively bred not to, so I would stick with my first guess of stone/beige.

For test breeding, if you bred him with a PEW and you get PEW, black eyed creams, and stone/beige then he is a stone. I'd try that first.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Oh I gotcha! :lol: I like the sound of stone much better. Darn American terms. : p

Hmm, so beige/stone crossed with yellow is a bad idea then? The only females available to me are yellow long haired selfs or broken yellows (predominantly white with yellow slashes).

Yes, you spotted well, he does have a paler belly.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Well, if you breed him to your recessive yellow does you'll know whether or not he's a diluted recessive-red based marten sable thing! If you get yellow offspring then that's what he is, if you don't then he's more than likely a stone 

Edit: yeah, beige is an awful colour name! :lol:


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Hahahaha. I can see that on my records right now. "Male diluted recessive-red based marten sable thing x yellow" :lol: I'm off to an amazing start!

So, wait, sorry, if he's a stone bred to a yellow, the offspring will only have stone/PEW/BEW? But if he's the former, we get yellow?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> Hahahaha. I can see that on my records right now. "Male diluted recessive-red based marten sable thing x yellow" I'm off to an amazing start!


 :lol:

Assuming they don't carry other genes, stone x recessive yellow = black or agouti, or both. Stone is on the c-locus, recessive yellow is on the e-locus, you will get black and/or agouti mice that carry both stone and recessive yellow.

Diluted recessive-red based marten sable thing x yellow = recessive yellows carrying whatever it is that's diluting the male.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Oh dear. That colour combination doesn't sound like colours that are easy to adopt out, even if I did cull the bucks. Although, with a satin or long haired coat that might make them look pretty interesting. I'd love to have a black satin mouse. If the yellow is broken, would that change anything?

(thank you so much for explaining the loci!)


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

The broken will just give you patches of white on whatever other color background you get, IF he carries it as well. If he doesn't, you'll get all self mice. And I've found that longhair and satin help drastically with getting pet homes for white mice. Standard-coat PEW? Nobody wants him except as a feeder. Satin longhair PEW? "Oh, he's so fluffy and cute!"


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Hahaha!










I do see your point.  I'll take another look at them and see if I can feel their actual bodies. At 7 weeks old they're kind of jumpy. If I can manage it I'll try to get a long haired broken on the chance he might carry it. I think I saw a couple but when they place the cage so high you literally need a ladder to see, it's tough!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

That photo is amazing and I have no idea what it's from, but it makes me think of my girlfriend whenever I'm holding one of the LHs out of the mouse room. Apparently she feels the need to rub her face on them. :? Best of luck getting your eyeballs into the cage!


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Hahaha! It's from Despicable Me.  I highly recommend checking out the YouTube clip! Probably the best line in the whole film.

Alright, time to take a deep breath and pick out my first doe! I'll try and avoid a satin...it's tough to tell when they're all shiny babies. Wish I had one (or all) of you along. Thanks everyone for your tips and teachings! I'll of course put her in a new thread.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Wait, why avoid satin?


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I think I was supposed to look into it turning brittle but somehow I feel like I dreamed that...I should never post when tired. I hope I shouldn't avoid satin as I think that's what I ended up with. That, or a super shiny girl!


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

I think it was Laigaie who said in a different thread that her's didn't have any problem with the brittleness, I'd take her word over mine as I've had no experience with either/both at once. As was pointed out, anything unusual does get adopted/sold faster than the run of the mill stuff.


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