# blacks--



## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok i know you want self blacks to be as black as possible with as dark of feet, ears and tail as possible. and to do that you breed the darkest blacks continually till you reach that point

BUT

Would it also be possible to eventually breed out to the point of white(pink) ears, tail, and feet. but still keep the black color. i know this isnt preferred but i was looking at my doe and she isnt dark on those areas and it would take me a while to get them so. but i know they have a reverse siamese which is pretty much white on the points that should be dark. and did know what anyone else thought on the subject if it would be possible or if it wouldnt. i might try it if people think it might be possible just to see but didnt want to put a lot of effort into it if no one thought it would really work.


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

jessierose2006 said:


> Ok i know you want self blacks to be as black as possible with as dark of feet, ears and tail as possible. and to do that you breed the darkest blacks continually till you reach that point
> 
> BUT
> 
> Would it also be possible to eventually breed out to the point of white(pink) ears, tail, and feet. but still keep the black color. i know this isnt preferred but i was looking at my doe and she isnt dark on those areas and it would take me a while to get them so. but i know they have a reverse siamese which is pretty much white on the points that should be dark. and did know what anyone else thought on the subject if it would be possible or if it wouldnt. i might try it if people think it might be possible just to see but didnt want to put a lot of effort into it if no one thought it would really work.


Hi Jessierose,

blacks can have two genetic backgrounds: a/a is the typical "old" nonagouti (black), which has brown hair at the ears and genitals, and there is the extreme black or extreme nonagouti (ae/ae), which has no brown pigments anymore. All blacks with a good colour shown today are extreme black. It should be possible to breed the normal a/a with paler ears than they already have, 








but why should we do this?

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

no theres no we i was thinking of trying to get a black that had as pink as possible ears, tail, and feet just because i thought it would look kinda neat something different. as my mice are mostly petstore mice i would have to spend years to get anywhere close to show type. i am breeding mice for different colors. most of my mice will be pets for others. the rest i will cull down between keeps and feeders. so for me to experiment with something as a black with extremely pink extremeties is more realistic than for someone who is already almost acheiving perfection. dont get me wrong about the awesomeness of a literally all black mouse but im kinda into the misfits.


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## mice-lover (Dec 12, 2010)

i have just had a litter of 5.
all black and 1 black head spot.
they are sooo cute 
And also they have bits of long hair on them
which makes them fluffy ....


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

they sound adorable


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

It won't work. You'll just end up with poor blacks. The reason it works with reverse Siamese is because the c(h) allele is acromelanistic. The black (a) allele is not.


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## jessierose2006 (Dec 1, 2010)

oh ok.


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## Loganberry (Oct 24, 2008)

They'd probably end up looking kind of dark brown, not black at all, with lots of tan hairs.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> All blacks with a good colour shown today are extreme black


I've never seen an 'ae' black in England, all of the show mice I have seen are extremely well bred 'a' blacks. Just one tan hair is all it takes to prove it. I had show blacks, though they were very well coloured themselves, they did produce some babies with a couple of tan hairs near the vents. I know this will invite conflict, but I'm not sure I even believe in the existance of 'ae'. It seems to be a way for breeders with normal 'a' black mice with poor colour to feel better about their mice: "Oh, well obviously it's not as black as an _extreme_ black..."

If you bred a black for pink skin, the fur colour would suffer. On the blackest blacks, the skin is also black under the fur.

There's no such thing as reverse Siamese, they're just stone/beige with pale noses and tailsets, ie faults.

Sarah xxx


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## sugarmice (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm with Sarah


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