# Identification Help: Self, Agouti, AND Brindle?!



## YuukikoOgawa (Jul 26, 2013)

So, I have an odd genetics dilemma on my hands.

I recently did a test-breeding of a new yellow doe I got from the local pet store to a black self standard buck who I know carries RY. The father's genetics and background are as follows:

Father: LDM's Enterprise 
a/a B/b Bt/* C/* D/* E/e P/p w/w Lgh/lgh Sa/sa spl/spl

Grandfather: James T Kirk, Fawn Satin
a/a B/B Bt/* C/* D/* e/e p/p w/w Lgh/* sa/sa spl/spl

Grandmother: Mocha, Chocolate Variegated Angora
a/a b/b Bt/* C/* D/* E/* P/* W/w lgh/lgh Sa/* spl/spl

What confuses me, is that the resulting litter appears to contain selfs, agoutis, AND one little brindle! From what I understand of mouse genetics, this shouldn't be possible, should it? Am I misinterpreting the little "brindle"? The "stripes" aren't very clear, so are there any other patterns that can mimic brindle? The background color doesn't quite look light enough for it to be variegated (the father has a white tail tip, so there's a slim chance that he might be a variegated with terrible markings), but maybe I'm wrong?

Here's what the litter seems to contain so far:

1. Black self
2. Black self with oddly marked tail: white tip, black band, then a slightly wider white band, then the rest of the tail is black.
3. Chocolate self
4. Agouti (gradation is very clear, from very dark brown on top to dark orange along the sides to light tummy, looks like pics of other agouti babies I've seen)
5. Cinnamon (same general pattern as #4, but much lighter)
6. Bright yellow, no obvious markings, possibly RY?
7. Mystery color: very pale off-white with dark eyes (eyes have not opened yet, can't confirm yet if they are black or ruby)
8. Pale sort-of yellow with odd light brown markings that look like broken brindle stripes...

This makes absolutely no sense to me, because I'm 99% sure that I did NOT mis-identify the selfs OR the agoutis, which would make the mother A/a. She couldn't be A^vy/a, or she wouldn't produce any agouti or cinnamon. And she can't be A^vy/A, because otherwise she wouldn't produce any selfs in this litter since the father is a/a. Does anyone have any possible explanation for this?

(Also, some help on figuring out #7 would be nice too.)


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

ive hurd that brindle can be so poor the mouse just looks ressive yellow, so if you do have agouti and brindgle babies from a yellow and black self id guess the mother is actualy an agouti brindle but just so poor you cant see it.
photos would help guess the colours of the babies


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## YuukikoOgawa (Jul 26, 2013)

Problem here is that if the mother were brindle and agouti, there would not be any selfs in the litter. There's four.

Got some help on another site, and it looks like I got strangely lucky and the mother is both brindle and RY at the same time.

Apparently the ones I thought were agouti are actually sooty RY. 

So we currently have:

Two black self
Three RY (two sooty, one clear)
One chocolate self
One cream self
One satin brindle who might be chocolate c-dilute (pale brown stripes over a beige background).


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

true I didn't think about the sefl babies lol
so mistory solved then


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## YuukikoOgawa (Jul 26, 2013)

AND the really bright RY is developing brindle stripes...FML.

Also, the cream seems to have developing this odd huge blotch of soot on her back. Some kind of really weird molt patch? It doesn't really resemble stripes, so I don't think she's developing brindle stripes, and she's at that age where they start going through weird molts, but still...she also looks a lot less warm-toned. :/


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