# Pink Eyed Silver Foxes?



## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Why can't you show silver foxes in dove, champagne or silver? Is it purely because they wouldn't be as contrasting? Can you even make PE foxes, or does the chinchilla gene affect the top colour of the pale varieties? Not that I could see that it would, unless there's some kind of loci linkage issue, but I would have thought that the tan gene would confine the chinchilla effect to the belly like any other fox variety. I think dove mice with white bellies would be extremely attractive. But then I think anything dove based is extremely attractive LOL.

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

As far as I remember from what i've been told is, the c locus and p locus are on the same 'chunk' of DNA, which generally means that both of those are more commonly inherited from the same parent.
Thats not to say it happens all the time, because you can get argente creams, which are chinchillated argente, which must have been 'made' at some point hehe

I imagine its possible... I too think that would look lovely. 

Willow xx


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Willow is correct. We recently had a discussion about this on another forum we belong to. I don't want to be rude by posting it here, but I can PM the link to the conversation to you if you want.

Basically, the genes that cause PE are on the same chromosome (piece of DNA) that also causes C-locus dilutions, so for a mouse to be c^ch/c^ch p/p takes a lot of work and a lot of generations.

However, you can breed tan to be selectively paler and paler. I don't know, though, that it's easy. I had some "red foxes" who were phenotypically Avy/at b/b p/p, bred toward a consistently lighter belly but none of them ever got to starch-white like you'd want in a fox.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

That's not quite what I meant  To try and be a bit more clear, you know how argente creme is lighter than argente all over, not just on the belly like a black fox is? I was wondering if this is due to the agouti gene or the PE gene, and so would a dove fox actually be dove with a white belly or would the c(ch) have an effect on the top colour as well? A chinchillated black is off-black, but a chinchillated dove is cream coloured. Would the tan confine the effect of c(ch) to the belly only like with black fox, or would it have an effect on the top colour as well like with argente creme? That's what I meant by could you actually make dove foxes - mice that are dove with white bellies not cream with white bellies.

Does anyone know why they're not standardised (assuming you can make dove foxes with a dove top colour)?

Sarah xxx


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Ooh, I like the sound of that also! I guess the reason it isn't standardized is in order to prevent utter insanity gripping the judges as they'd try to keep straight all the combinations of alphabet soup that are possible in breeding fancy meeces. There are so many possibilities that the recognized colors are limited to the ones that have enough afficionados to warrant putting it in the standards.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm guessing a bit here but I would think they are not standardised because as with many fancy mice varieties,they are based, if only in name and not genetics, on rabbits.I think the standardised colours are the same as the colours standardised in fox rabbits and no other reason.


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