# A few lessons learnt and other excitement



## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

Well my first litter are all grown up now! (Well weaned at least even if not their full adult size)

But that got me thinking back on the experience, thinking of what I had read, how I thought I had been prepared and how helpless and paranoid I felt during most of the time until I finally learnt to accept one thing.

I just like typing out my thoughts, so am probably more rambling to myself here! So anyway...

1) It was very scary, worrying for the health of babies and doe, scared of cannibalism, sad about reducing litter size but also so worthwhile an an amazing experience.

2) The doe was a bit skittish, funnily enough she got a lot worse just before giving birth and stayed like that until they were weaned, now she's actually better than she was before, she's still the least social but is the most friendly and hand tame she ever has been so far.

The biggest thing though was to try to relax and not be so paranoid... At every step of the way I was constantly afraid she was going to munch them if I did anything. When I reduced the litter on day 3, every time I handled them (which I did once a day but wish I had done more), and then at two weeks old I finally settled something in my head... I needed to clean the cage badly, I was so scared of doing it but it just had to be done for their health.... she was going to eat them after, I just knew it, the cage would smell different and even though I kept the nest paper it was no longer a nest and the babies would smell different, she'd be away from them too long while I did it etc... and then it hit me... if she did it would be sad, but I couldn't go on being afraid of her eating them preventing me from enjoying them as much or spending time with them. If she ate them at that age then I would never be breeding from them in case it was passed on and it may have been for the best, she'd have got protein back and I wouldn't have had a whole litter I could never breed from because of the temperament.

Guess what though? She didn't eat them, she spent some time rearranging but she was just as attentive and never showed any aggression towards them.

Then onto the final final conclusion from it all: Stick to your goals! I was so torn, I was going to keep one black self because she was a self and looked cute, but she was very skittish, I was going to keep the second doe because she had no white tail tip or throat spot but she had never really stuck with me, she wasn't as afraid, she just had no personality really, but in the end I kept the absolute worst doe for most purposes, she has a while tail tip, she has a throat spot, she has a ridge on her chin where the hairs meet, she has pink toes and the tan doesn't reach to the underside of her feet, she has tan hairs behind her ears and a little up onto the black top... but my goal with my pet types was to put temperament above type for now and she has worked wonders there... I think it is down to her that her mother is actually better now, when I put my hand in the cage she comes running up to me to climb over my every time and when she does that my other two does follow out of curiosity so I have a lot better relationship with them all now than before. She is a little sweetheart and knowing I kept to the goal I set myself makes me feel good about the breeding, as does seeing progress


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

and.... for the massive excitement!

Mice are contagious! I love my pet mice but it made me really want to get into breeding properly, in another threat Laigaie asked why I did not want to breed towards showing, my answer there was its just too far, I just can't do that... can I?.... Then she mentioned trying to get mice sent down from the show at the end of this month for people down in the SE... well maybe I actually could.... but I don't know anyone and had heard a lot about breeders over here being a bit wary of providing stock to people they don't know... so it was a fun idea but still probably a no go, but I told my fiance anyway that it would have been fun and his reply shocked and amazed me "Why don't we just drive up there, if we left after work on friday we can be there saturday morning, nap in the car see the show, pick up mice, drive home for sunday morning and be able to rest sunday before work again and perhaps stop along the way at a couple of Diners, Drive-ins and Dives places to check them out"... I was speechless. Suddenly actually having show quality mice, actually being able to show and be part of the community could be a reality, but that still left the mice.

I love black animals, always have, Frisian horses, pure black cows, black dwarf lop rabbits, you get the idea so it seemed the obvious variety to try to breed and show with was black self, but I also loved texels and after disappointment of finding someone that said they'd sell to me round here (a feeder breeder though). So maybe I could find siamese texels (or mini sheep as they seem to look at times) as a pet project too. So plan into action and again, with Laigaie's help, I managed to reach out to some people and find a person willing to provide stock for me to get started off with, I will have to wait to pick them up on March 12th at the show and that seems like oh so long away when you're excited about something! They will be related, or directly descended from mice that were very highly placed at a show last september.

I am nervous about getting such good stock and ruining it, nervous I won't have a good enough eye to pick out the small variances in type or that I won't have managed to handle them well enough so they won't be friendly enough to show (they're extreme non agouti rather than black self and are apparently quite hyper despite the same handling as other rather mellow mice), but most of all I am excited and cannot wait to start on this adventure!


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## micurious (Nov 7, 2015)

I had a similar experience with one of my does - she was initially a little skittish, being feeder mouse raised in a store, then more skittish during pregnancy. But after she gave birth she became dead set on escape, which led to a couple comical mornings when I was checking the cage before work and she had grabbed my sleeve and climbed out, dangling from my cardigan. Even now she's something of an escape artist, though the cage is secure enough to take her on. This is a crazy contrast to the ducking and hiding I was getting from her before...


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

Lilly said:


> and.... for the massive excitement!
> with Laigaie's help, I managed to reach out to some people and find a person willing to provide stock for me to get started off with, I will have to wait to pick them up on March 12th at the show and that seems like oh so long away when you're excited about something! They will be related, or directly descended from mice that were very highly placed at a show last september!


 :gwavebw :gwavebw


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

So now for another lesson: Nothing goes as planned!

I have always been one that has obsessed about planning and lists, if I'm going on holiday, moving, planning anything else, straight to lists that I'll write and rewrite a million times before scrapping it all because the situation changes of it ends up a last minute rush job anyway! Mice were no exception, much to my fiance's disgust I was trying to get the bins sorted almost 2 months in advance ("that's ages away why get them now when we can get them nearer the time"), eventually had my way and got them sorted 1 month before and I guess I can see his point, they're just sitting there empty and sad, but they're ready so it lets me mind rest a little easier!

So sadly got the new that I won't be able to get the showline extreme blacks in March, maybe later in the year (around end of july/start of august), so much for my "perfect" plans of only having to make one long distance trip to get all my starting stock at once and be able to take part in the show later in the year! Still I will be getting the stock to start up a splash color point beige project and am planning a trip for late march/early april to get some texels and who knows maybe they'll be someone that breeds extreme blacks at the show and i'll be able to get started with them after all, if not then patience is a virtue (one that I find hard at times!)

Making the new bins did get one thing achieved though, my current pet mice (from petsmart) didn't seem to know how to use a bottle when I got them and since I was paranoid that they would get dehydrated I put a bowl in too, and they just always used the bowl and never the bottle so I took it out. The silly things drove me crazy, within 10 mins of refilling I would have to be cleaning out and refilling again at times. The buck not so much, he is good and doesn't really chew or dig much but the does.... they're burrowers.... switched them over to a bin that I had a bottle hole in and gave them a bottle and their inquisitive nature and a bit of careful squeasing the bottle and they love it now, so glad they are away from bowls, they can actually have clean water at all times!


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## Zamwyn (Apr 29, 2015)

I'd say the lesson that hardly anything goes as planned is the most valueable one as a breeder. Often hard earned though, and make many people give up on breeding entirely.

As for water, when you can't use a bottle for whatever reason, try a mug or glass instead of a bowl. They'll sit on the edge and drink, no problem (just be careful with babies, must be age appropriate).

I especially look forward to follow your texels when you get them! What colours are you planning on keeping them in, or are you gonna concentrate mainly on the coats?


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## micurious (Nov 7, 2015)

This reminds me of my recent struggles with them kicking all of their litter up until it covers the water bottle spigot. Which promptly empties itself into the litter, creating a health hazard and an ungodly stench of wet litter. I swear I give them less litter each time and each time they manage to pile it up in that exact corner. I KNOW that THEY know the purpose of the spigot, so why do they insist on burying it??


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

I've been lucky in that regard, my mice dig away all the bedding from under their bottles so its bare.

Got the first of my mice last saturday at my first show. Was a little bit of an overwhelming experience, after leaving around 5pm on friday night, driving through the night, arriving 6am at the show town, a quick nap in the car and then breakfast/tea to wake myself up before arriving at the show around 10am. Looking around the room and thinking ok so I know that person from pictures I have seen of previous shows! Then spending half the time chasing around my 2 year old who decided it was fun to go in the opposite direction to wherever I was or wanted to be! I barely even got a chance to see my mice, they got put in their carriers quickly stored at a table then loaded in the car on the back seat for the drive home.

So arrive home 3am sunday morning and get my mice put in their new homes so they had their water bottle and food before promtly falling asleep. Will be getting a decent camera soon so can hopefully post pictures but my little collection now has two splash siamese (undermarked but nice size) does, a satin siamese doe, a colorpoint beige splash smoke fox buck and a satin colorpoint beige buck.

Hopefully easter weekend will be getting my coated mice ( about 2000m round trip... and whenever I think that I get reminded of the song by Vanessa Carlton... even though that is a thousand miles not two thousand!) then not long after that one or two burmese and then I can start settling down and really establishing my lines!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

It was so great meeting you at the show! And don't worry so much about your little one. Of all the kids there, yours was far and away the best-mannered! We had one little boy whose hands were in the bunny tank *constantly*.


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## Lilly (Nov 21, 2015)

The rabbits were so cute, I wanted to pick them up and take them all home myself! So much fluff lol Thank you though, he's usually pretty good but its his first time around people and especially their stuff, I'm sure he was eyeing up a couple of peoples backpacks or KK's as fun toys!

Looking forward to July though when I hope to be able to enter my first show!


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