# Mites or no mites?



## spazzy_sparx (Sep 8, 2009)

I thought my mouse had mites so I used a mite and lice spray. His scratching seemed to slowed down and his wounds got better, but he is at it again and it is worse. He has lost all of the hair around his eye, he has a red spot on his ear on the same side and he has little scabs all over the upper side of his back?

Does anyone know what is going on?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Could be an allergy to bedding or something the mousies eats. It also could be an ectopic (skin parasite) thing like mange..I use. Revolution for Puppies and Kittens very sparingly (I treat about 12-15 meeces with one tube but drawing it into the skinniest syringe and dispensing from that.)

Unfortunately, it also could be a self sustaining irritation started by something that is not present any more. Benadryll liquid might help if that's the problem. I've seen this sort of thing get worse and worse regardless of what I try, and end up having to put the dear mousies down...and I hate when I have to do that. The best outcomes have used both antibiotics and Benadryll orally along with an an antibacterial ointment used very sparingly (I get the first aid cream that has a mild anaesthetic agent of some sort )


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## spazzy_sparx (Sep 8, 2009)

moustress said:


> Could be an allergy to bedding or something the mousies eats. It also could be an ectopic (skin parasite) thing like mange..I use. Revolution for Puppies and Kittens very sparingly (I treat about 12-15 meeces with one tube but drawing it into the skinniest syringe and dispensing from that.)
> 
> Unfortunately, it also could be a self sustaining irritation started by something that is not present any more. Benadryll liquid might help if that's the problem. I've seen this sort of thing get worse and worse regardless of what I try, and end up having to put the dear mousies down...and I hate when I have to do that. The best outcomes have used both antibiotics and Benadryll orally along with an an antibacterial ointment used very sparingly (I get the first aid cream that has a mild anaesthetic agent of some sort )


Thank you sooooo much! I thought it was allergies to the bedding at first too so I took him out of that. He hasn't been near any old bedding for over a month. I don't think it is mange though because there is one other mouse with him and isn't mange highly contagious?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

You know, it is infectious, but it's like a lot of other diseases that tend to infect critters that are, for one reason or another, susceptible. The problem usually only spreads if you have other healthy meeces in close contact with the scabby one. There are a lot of diseases and conditions that are just waiting to get a start, and when one meece has enough concentration of whatever it is, then the mousie can become a Typhoid Mary. Mycoplasma is like that too, only a lot harder to get rid of as the fungus is always there in small quantities. Mange is more managable. there is one other skin problem that is called cold tissue disease which starts when there's too little humidity, which dried out the skin on 'cold' parts like the tail, the ears, sometimes the feet. The thing starts as an irritation from dry air, is aggravated by scratching and licking skin that cracks and get infected. Broad spectrum antibiotics and Revolution worked for me in half the case I've seen. In some others the problem resulted in amputation of part of the tail, or sorse, it spread to the base of the tail onto the torso, and in those cases euthanzsia was the only option.

Many breeders don't treat anything like this, but isolate the affected individual, and let nature takes it's course. All other things being equal, half the time the problem will rectify itself, and the other half, the poor dear has to put down. It's a judgement call, and you might want to see a vet, although, in my experience most vets don't know diddly squat about mousie illnesses. Things might be different where you are, what with the mouse fancy being wider spread in Britain.

Good luck, and let me know how things turn out, OK?


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## spazzy_sparx (Sep 8, 2009)

moustress said:


> You know, it is infectious, but it's like a lot of other diseases that tend to infect critters that are, for one reason or another, susceptible. The problem usually only spreads if you have other healthy meeces in close contact with the scabby one. There are a lot of diseases and conditions that are just waiting to get a start, and when one meece has enough concentration of whatever it is, then the mousie can become a Typhoid Mary. Mycoplasma is like that too, only a lot harder to get rid of as the fungus is always there in small quantities. Mange is more managable. there is one other skin problem that is called cold tissue disease which starts when there's too little humidity, which dried out the skin on 'cold' parts like the tail, the ears, sometimes the feet. The thing starts as an irritation from dry air, is aggravated by scratching and licking skin that cracks and get infected. Broad spectrum antibiotics and Revolution worked for me in half the case I've seen. In some others the problem resulted in amputation of part of the tail, or sorse, it spread to the base of the tail onto the torso, and in those cases euthanzsia was the only option.
> 
> Many breeders don't treat anything like this, but isolate the affected individual, and let nature takes it's course. All other things being equal, half the time the problem will rectify itself, and the other half, the poor dear has to put down. It's a judgement call, and you might want to see a vet, although, in my experience most vets don't know diddly squat about mousie illnesses. Things might be different where you are, what with the mouse fancy being wider spread in Britain.
> 
> Good luck, and let me know how things turn out, OK?


Thank again! I am actually in the U.S. ...I should probably start mentioning that, but your right, vets here know diddly squat. And that is if you can even find one.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

With any lice/mite infestation you must treat in cycles so that you kill all the adults and then all the adults that emerge from the eggs that are present. If you treated only once or only over the course of a few days, you did not kill all the parasites. Revolution will not treat all mouse mites and lice and is not recommended for rodents.

Since you are in the US, if you can find a Tractor Supply Store or most other farm stores, you will find a product called Iver-on. It's a spray-on antiparasitic treatment for cattle. Dilute this 1 part Iver-on to 5 parts water, and spray the mouse, the cage, and the bedding every week for three weeks or twice a week for three weeks. If it's any kind of microscopic parasite Iver-on will get rid of them and it will also coincidentally cure most internal parasites (like worms).

Don't worry about getting it on their food or in their eyes. It has never hurt any of the dozens of mice I've treated with it.

Since I haven't seen the mouse in question, I can't say that external parasites are for sure the cause of the ailment, but the Iver-on treatment works as a preventative anyway.

(I wouldn't use the ivermectin paste for horses because it's dosed too strongly and even a tiny bit smaller than a grain of rice can kill a mouse.)


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I've had problems with Ivermectin causing seizures or organ failure. On the other hand, I've used Revolution repeatedly, and the only problems I had was stepping down to a dose small enough for a baby mousie. I've used it on pregnant females with no ill effect. Ivermectin is a good, effective product 95 % of the time, when used on meeces; I use it on my nonbreeding meeces in liquid injectable form, diluted greatly in distilled water. There's also a product call Pet Relief, or Reptile Relief (I could hardly believe when a shop owner recommended a product for mites on reptiles; who knew they even got mites!!) And that works well on mousies, but you have to saturate the fur, and then keep the critter warm until it is dry. I use that product on bedding and cleaning cages where mites have been a problem. Sevin Powder is another relatively safe product, but has no effect on internal or ectopic problems.

I still prefer Revolution for puppies and kittens. I decant the tube into the cap, and dip with a toothpick to apply on babies, and then draw the remainder into a very skinny syringe (minus the needle) and try to make as small a wet spot on the back of the mousies neck. You have to watch them for about the ten minutes it takes to be absorbed/dry so cagemates don't lick it off.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

"Ivermectin" paste is slightly different from the product called "Iver-On," as Iver-On is a spray-on application which is mixed more evenly than the paste and will not cause overdose (which includes the seizures and organ failure you experience) when used properly. Iver-On is a generalist application and gets rid of all but two external and internal parasites common to mice whereas both Revolution and Sevin dust target some parasites and leave others unharmed.

Revolution is great for dogs and cats, but the parasites they get are more endemic to their species (namely the cat flea, _Ctenocephalides felis_), which do not normally occur on mice.

Iver-On is the best option available, especially when you don't know for sure which parasite you're dealing with. If you do not have a Tractor Supply Store or other farm/feed store near you, you may purchase it online here:

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro ... id=0026251


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

The small animal technician at our local Humane Society recommended Revolution for Puppies and Kittens to me while I was filling out forms to adopt a couple of mousies. It works great on mites and everything else as well. I've been using it for about five years now, and i mentioned it to the vet that sees our kitties, and she approved its use on my meeces, with the caveat that I had be careful about the dosing. I use it twice with an one month interval and it works very well indeed.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Small animal technicians and even veterinarians can give notoriously inaccurate advice. Mice are not a common animal to treat in any respect. I don't know enough about Revolution to say it is bad; I'm not saying that. But I am saying that Iver-On has a broader scope and is thus more effective, especially in a case such as this when the exact species of parasite (if any) is unknown.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Are we having fun yet?

*whiplash*

whatever...where's the love? 

(...discussion is good...fun is good...discussion=fun....and now we are so much better than we were before...)


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## spazzy_sparx (Sep 8, 2009)

moustress said:


> Could be an allergy to bedding or something the mousies eats. It also could be an ectopic (skin parasite) thing like mange..I use. Revolution for Puppies and Kittens very sparingly (I treat about 12-15 meeces with one tube but drawing it into the skinniest syringe and dispensing from that.)
> 
> Unfortunately, it also could be a self sustaining irritation started by something that is not present any more. Benadryll liquid might help if that's the problem. I've seen this sort of thing get worse and worse regardless of what I try, and end up having to put the dear mousies down...and I hate when I have to do that. The best outcomes have used both antibiotics and Benadryll orally along with an an antibacterial ointment used very sparingly (I get the first aid cream that has a mild anaesthetic agent of some sort )


One more question for you. How much of the liquid benadryll do you use and how often? I have a feeling it might be allergies, even though the allergen has been taken away, because I had many mice that had a reddish tint to their skin. They all have different bedding now and all but the one cleared up. The ones who all seemed to have the red skin were related too so I think there might be a connection.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

[/quote]Things might be different where you are, what with the mouse fancy being wider spread in Britain.[/quote]

just as useless over here I'm afraid moustress.Most show fanciers apart from new ones would cull the individuals,viewing them as weaker/more illness prone whatever the cause.Obviously it's different if they are pets.When I first had mice I used to take them to the vets especially for respiratory illnesses.Soon gave that up though.If I want to chuck my money down the drain,I can find other ways :!: :!:


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## spazzy_sparx (Sep 8, 2009)

Things might be different where you are, what with the mouse fancy being wider spread in Britain.[/quote]

just as useless over here I'm afraid .Most show fanciers apart from new ones would cull the individuals,viewing them as weaker/more illness prone whatever the cause.Obviously it's different if they are pets.When I first had mice I used to take them to the vets especially for respiratory illnesses.Soon gave that up though.If I want to chuck my money down the drain,I can find other ways :!: :!:[/quote]

I agree. The one vet I did find wanted $45 just for one visit. That would get expensive with all my mice!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

The cynic in me says it's all about cash.After all the mouse must be the most researched animal in medical history.More to be made from cat and dog owners though...


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Good show breeders in the US would also cull weaker or sicker animals. I would.

But I'm not a pet owner. Pet owners have more invested in individual animals whereas show breeders have more invested in the entire colony or an overall goal, so we do things differently.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Spazz, I pm'ed you.


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## spazzy_sparx (Sep 8, 2009)

moustress said:


> Spazz, I pm'ed you.


GOT IT!!


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