# Blue, black, red :)



## Lyra (Mar 1, 2013)

I've got three litters at the moment, all with pups in different colours:

1. Blue pied tans from the blue pied tan "kinder surprise" mum bought me, I'll be keeping two out of three does I left. Their mum is skittish and quite unused to human touch, so I fostered the best looking pups with black doe, as her litter was only one day older. I was hoping there would be at least one self, but it appears the pup's father was pied as well. They're not as good looking as I'd like, but I'm still happy I've got this surprise litter, as their mother is too skittish, and I hope the pups fostered by more social doe will be calmer and more friendly, so I can breed them and handle their babies normally, not with the "catch the mum and close her in another cage method".

2. Black tans from black banded tan x agouti pied tan pairing (for big type and eyes, and for at/at gene as well). I was disappointed, as the litter was really buck heavy - only 3 out of 12 (!) were girls, and only two black tans. But those girls are quite big and chubby (as the litter was culled to 6 on day 3), and one of them has really broad scull, so I guess she will be the keeper.

Two litters in one, 12 days old, as all the pups are being fostered by black tan doe and she's a wonderful mother:
















I will have to make the black girls a separate session, as they've just kept to burry themselves under the rest, even when I took them out, when I was ready to take a picture they suddenly appeared on the bottom of the pile!

3. Satin reds from satin red x satin red pairing, plus one satin black tan surprise - I was ecstatic when I saw that one and it turned out to be a boy, as he'll be just what I needed for satin blue fox line I plan to work on  He's the biggest pup in the litter of 4 (as I suspected, the reds are Ay, so the litter would have to be smaller than I'm used to... it's a shame there were only 4, though...). I was not happy however, when I noticed the 2 of 4 pups are marked  There is a self red boy, which I think I'll keep (although he's the smallest of the litter - not runt, luckily), and a pied pair. Nor sure if I'll keep them, as the piebald is exactly what I expected to breed out... I can't wait to see their full shiny coat - it just started growing, and as it is my first satin litter, I'm sooo excited


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Good looking babies.  Recessives, like pied, are always a pain to bred out when you don't want them.


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Since you've got pied in the litter and both parents are only carriers, there's a 67% chance the self is a carrier, too. Hoping for you that she's not! :/


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## Lyra (Mar 1, 2013)

Yes, I know 
It's really unfortunate, as I was quite sure parents were selves, bred from selves only... They may not be brother and sister from the same litter, but I'm sure they're related one way or another (the breeder kept does in a harem), so I was expecting some recessives their line carries to pop out. I hoped there could be blues, was happy to see there a black tan. I was just not expecting piebald... I guess I should be glad that I learned they are S/s now... 
I'm going to try keeping only selves from the litters, unless there is no other option (as with blues). It's just hard for me not to pick bigger piebald sibling over smaller self. I guess I could use the spotted one for breeding as a last resort option, only with a self doe, as he's going to be my sister's beloved pet. I was shocked, because she was always complaining that I breed mice (instead of rats), and that they're too little, too stupid and too smelly for her - and after I've sent her a photo of the red's litter, she called me to tell me she wants one!


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

Beautiful red babies, I love them. :love1 Good luck!


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Don't forget that often pied tend to be bigger than the selfs anyway, especially darker selfs. Meaning, they are not better, just whiter.


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## Lyra (Mar 1, 2013)

TwitchingWhiskers said:


> Beautiful red babies, I love them. :love1 Good luck!


Thank you! ^^



> Don't forget that often pied tend to be bigger than the selfs anyway, especially darker selfs. Meaning, they are not better, just whiter.


Really? I didn't know that :shock: I've never tried breeding selves before, so I wasn't able to compare them. I'm glad, then - I guess the selves are not so much smaller that I could be worried something's wrong.

I'm dying to see the satin black tan's underbelly - I hope it's fiery red, not a pale yellow like the rest I have


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Well, hmm, I don't have any selfs atm. The biggest skulled mouse here is one with only a few color spots. The ones with only a head spot of white are the smallest. I noticed this back when I had selfs, and a black line spit out siamese on occasion. They were huge compared to their siblings in the nest.

Many people here have noticed this sort of thing in mixed litters, or an off baby of a self with a coat more pale than desired. My take on that, is to compare only self to self, best color to the best color, type to type, then size. It's better to have type than to sacrifice all for size anyway. I think.


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## Lyra (Mar 1, 2013)

Pups've changed a lot, they are nearly 4 weeks old (blues and black) and 3 weeks old (reds).

I'm really happy how the black tan girl turned out - she may look like she's chocolate, but I'm pretty sure she's just a poor black, as will be proved after she changes her coat 









The blues are just as poor as I was expecting them to be, so no disappointment there. They actually seem to have quite nice tan for blues (which is not really important, as I hope to have blue foxes, not tans, in the future). They have nice eyes and much better temper than their mother though, so I'm quite happy with them anyway 

















Red litter was mocking me all the way as the pups grew: the beautiful big, dark red pup is belted (or strangely pied), and in my attempt to stay away from any spotting as far as possible, he will be going to new home with my sister (and 350 km away from me, so I hope the thoughts of breeding him won't tempt me). He's got the worst ears and eyes of the litter, luckily - in the other case I wouldn't be so sure if I want to give him away... I'm keeping the black and yellow (no point in calling him red, really) bucks, and I hope the yellow one will give me nice and RED pups with one of his half sisters in the future. Or I will just breed girls back to their father...

















Another proof that my mice just want to spite me - just days ago I've had a litter of 10 pups from Aya x Aa pairing, and was hoping for a few red girls. They were 7 girls born and... only one of them seems to be red! I've got only one more red that seems to be boy, but I've kept him for now and I'm willing him into a girl... Please, let him just surprise me!


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## TheFabumouse (Jun 1, 2013)

They're all really cute. I love the blue with the white around the nose


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## Lyra (Mar 1, 2013)

Ty ^^
I loved that about her too - there was never any question about keeping her, though it was hard to choose from all the other blue girls - the looked almost like clones!


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## NikiP (May 7, 2013)

I'm a sucker for blue pieds. Recently setup as couple of breedings that may give me some, we'll see how many I can cull :roll: To bad on the red boy & that blue pied would have been my pick also


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Rotten luck on the red girls. Of course... one boy is all you need, well after the luck turns around .  Wishing you the reverse on their next litter.


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## Lyra (Mar 1, 2013)

Ty, ThatCertainGlow 
I hope the father of the red litter will give me at least one pup as good in colour as he is (and not spotted! )- he seems to got darker lately and is quite vibrant orange, although it's hard to catch on the photos because of the satin 

As for the pied blues, I'm strongly determined to breed selves and to breed out the spotting gene altogether... No idea how that will work, as I love the face marking of that blue girl - reminds me of rat's blaze


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## angelofwhimsy (Dec 11, 2011)

Ooooh, what lovely litters all!


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## sanctuary (Jun 23, 2013)

I love seeing piles of babies. They are all so beautiful


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