# Need some help with these pups, please.



## lindberg4220 (Oct 30, 2008)

I just can't figure Benetti & Cocos pups out 

Benetti's colour is the topic here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1351

Coco is bought as a chocolate but looks more black now: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a50/li ... 001154.jpg . Coco is a lovely fox.

These are their babies:

Chocolate fox female:









"Benetti-coloured" female:









Agoutibased male, but what colour?:









Non-agouti creme/beige-ish female, what colour?:









Any help/comments are welcome


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

I am not totally sure but I would put it down to a gene on the C Locus which is responsible for the genes which cause chinchilla (ch) and various colours such as beige, coffee, and bone (ce). Its by far the most confusing gene group in mice colouration.


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## Mari (Jul 21, 2009)

Very pretty babies! The third buck looks like it might be a Chinchilla?

I have also produced some of these colors. They look VERY similar to yours. And having breed the parents to this buck and him back to his litter sister, I have produced many more. I have yet to get recent pics of everyone, but I have at least 2-3 more bucks and several more does.

Here is the original post I made: 
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1708&hilit=dante

I think it's very interesting that we seem to have a very similar thing popping up. I really think it's an attractive color, though!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I also have mice of this colour.I have a pure bred chinchilla and these colours have come out of various cross matings that I have done using him.I'm always hoping that a yellow mouse might appear from my experiments.No luck so far.


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## Mari (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh, a yellow mouse would be quite fun, Sarah!

Now, would one expect to get Chinchilla mice at some point from these breedings, then? Or is it just the luck of the draw? I've got about a dozen and a half of these Chinchilla-ish 'different' mice, but no Chinchillas. They also came from Dove Fox lines, which is also, obviously, Chinchilla. I guess I'm just surprised to have not had one pop up yet. Sorry to kind of hi-jack. I guess it's still pertinant, though.  Also, since it looks like the poster has had one pop up, if I was correct in my identification (which is not definite, for sure! :lol


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## lindberg4220 (Oct 30, 2008)

Thanks all, for your replies 

I'm not getting any closer with the colours, but here's some new pics of the 3 in question 

The agoutibased male is def. not ordinary agouti, there's absolutely no brown on him, only black/grey and yellow hairs. The creamish female actually looks a lot like a a ratbaby one of my breeding friends had in a litter, a colour he calls caramell.










And the little "benetti-coloured" female:


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## lindberg4220 (Oct 30, 2008)

I was thinking of keeping the benetti female too and then breed her to her father, to see what colours it might give


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

The only thing I can think of that the creamish female could be is Stone Agouti (A/* ce/ce)? This is what Finnmouse has to say about agouti based stone: "Agouti and ce make for a dirty brownish colouring, which makes the mouse look streaky and a bit dirty. The usual agouti pattern of a single hair's pigmentation doesn't show very well, the base of the hair being lighter and the tip darker. The mouse is slightly lighter than its nonagouti black representative."

The agouti looking chap looks a bit like the Lemon Agouti on this page: http://hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/genetics/c-i.html, without the Aw making a paler belly.

I reckon the chocolate fox is another burmese fox, chocolate in there just doesn't make sense when it seems that the others are most likely weird c-locus varieties.

There's lots of indepth c-locus info here: http://hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/genetics/c-locus.html. Finnmouse is such a fantastic website 

If you're really serious about finding out what's going on, find yourself a black self doe from a line of black selfs that you can be 99.9% certain aren't carrying any colour genes at all, breed Benetti to her, and then breed a couple of daughters from that litter back to him. This will separate Benetti's colour genes across a whole litter of mice, and only Benetti's colour genes, so hopefully you'll be able to work it out from there. If Benetti's colour is made up of three or four different genes, there'll be an example of each one in that litter and a couple more Benettis. That's what I'd do anyway. If you carry on trying to work it out the way you are you'll probably never find out what his colour is as it's all getting mixed up in your burmese foxes and such like.

Edited for spelling :roll:

Sarah xxx


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