# Tully is a mum! [photo 6/07]



## Seafolly

An hour or two after I posted in Serena's thread, I realized Tully was giving birth! I had previously moved the tank over the edge so that I could see up into it from the floor. At first there were only two, but I THINK there are seven babies in total. Tully is busy at work cleaning them and rearranging them.

But oh my gosh guys. Granted I'm new to baby mice, especially minutes after birth, but they're beautiful. I reluctantly continued with my dinner plans and have returned to see full milk bellies. <3 If there are only seven I'd be tempted not to cull. That said, boys will still be a problem later in life. It's going to be rough when I eventually get in there to sex them. When I envisioned culling I hadn't really put them to life in my mind, seeing the gentle movement of baby limbs. My rat pinkies were always so sleepy and lazy at this age. The life is now really obvious and impossible to ignore. I might need a little coaching. : P

Anyway, I wanted to spread the news as I'm absolutely giddy and in love. Which I realize is a bad place to be.


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## MojoMouse

Congratulations!  Every litter is exciting, but there's something very special about the first.  I can't wait for pics!


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## Seafolly

Thanks!  I was/am absolutely beside myself. I didn't expect that. But when I saw that first baby wiggling around on the glass...oh I was lost.

Four hours old:









It was pretty dark, I had no idea where I was aiming. Some are HUGE and look like they could be boys. : / I see why boys are viewed as hogs. There's one that worries me a little. It has a small milk band but seemed to be shoved to the bottom of the pack. It was tough watching it struggle to get a nipple while a sibling much bigger sucked away.


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## MojoMouse

Ha, I bet that fatso with the HUGE milk belly is a boy! 

The winner v struggler aspect of litters is always a bit sad because you feel for the wee ones. It does my head in if I dwell on it, so I don't - it's nature's way.

It's going to be so much fun as you watch them develop. Fuzzie stage is great, then the Opening Of The Eyes... best bit ever!


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## Seafolly

I'm so glad someone was online to share the joy, haha! Yeah there are four giant babies with way more milk than they actually need. *sigh* I think only three have black eyes so I'm really rooting for that runt...! I'd love to see as much variety as possible to know what these two mice carry. If she were limp and not trying I'd have an easier time accepting it but she wiggles and just has dumb luck (the mother will shift away by accident as soon as she finds a nipple). What'll be the hardest is watching these guys for the next three days (staring up from my floor, haha) and then having to cull. I'm leaning towards 8 in number. Not a bad size, but the boys...you know.

Oh man I can't wait for the fuzzy stage! Right now is awfully special though. I love how precious (I hate that word but it fits) and fragile they look. I can practically see their hearts. And the fine veins through their faces.


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## Serena

I wish you the very best of luck  (and few boys  )
Keep us updated on the developmet. I love seeing baby-pictures!


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## MojoMouse

How's Tully going? I've found that first time mums fuss around a lot initially, then really seem to hit their stride after a couple of days as they settle into a routine with their babies.

Have you held the babies yet?


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## Seafolly

Thanks Serena!  I'll be watching for your birth announcement! I'm huge on development too. 

Tully seems very attentive, so I've quietly shifted all the scrambled eggs and kibbles and lab blocks to the entrance of her house. This way she can eat and they can nurse at the same time.  Seems to be working! Also I'm pretty sure about 8 babies now. Glad to see my little runt has a milk band now. Whew. She had one before it just wasn't anything compared to my fatty up there.

Gosh, can I? I'd love to, but I'd be worried about freaking out momma!


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## moustress

What a fat little milk belly on that one in the pic; congrats!


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## MojoMouse

Seafolly said:


> Gosh, can I? I'd love to, but I'd be worried about freaking out momma!


By the time you read this post you will definitely be able to handle the babies, but there are a few things you can do to make it ok with Tully. Firstly, the best time is when she's out of the nest, and she will go out to toilet and rest (even though she has room service food  ). Pop her into a holding pen or somewhere comfy. Warm your hands! Rub them with a bit of substrate. Then gently scoop up the bubs and have a lookie at them.

I hold the babies from the second day, and have never had a problem with the doe being upset. They can take a lot in their stride once they are in a routine with their babies. I get the evil eye when I put her back, but she gets on with sorting them out and fixing things up.

Best treat for you: when you have the little ones in your hand, hold them close to your ear.....  
Tell me what you hear.


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## Seafolly

Oh thank you thank you for the step by step instructions!  I was pretty unclear about that. I think I read somewhere to take momma to another room entirely so she can't hear them. Shoot and I just washed my hands with a sweet smelling soap that even bothers ME. Time to handle dirty mouse litter.

I do need to get the boys out.  And looking at the milk bands, sooner rather than later seems smart. : / I'll try not to listen for the adorable baby sounds until after this. (there will be a human meltdown involved)


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## Serena

I used the same method as described by mojomouse with my first litter, and everything went smooth. 
Despite it being my and mama's first litter and me being incredibly nervous.

I hope sexing goes well and you keep your nerves.


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## Seafolly

Great! And thanks!  I know I won't back out, it's more like the fear of putting girls in the freezer by accident, and putting the keepers at risk. No doubt the second litter will be a lot smoother when I have an idea of what to expect from Tully.


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## MojoMouse

Your attitude is amazing for your first litter - competent and confident. You're going to be a great mouse breeder!  Tully is just doing what comes naturally. Mice are very hardy and instinctive, and generally make great mothers (in spite or, rather that because of our efforts to "help").  I'm looking forward to more pics once you've gone through the intial sorting of the litter.


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## Seafolly

That's so kind of you to say! I've been verbally flailing a lot on this forum though. 










I haven't actually done the deed yet, but these are the three that will be keepers.

Beige/stone x recessive yellow broken...but black eyes? What could these be?


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## Frizzle

Stone: a/a B/* D/* ce/ce
Reccessive yellow= ee, pied ss

It sounds like stone is black based, and that RY can be either agouti or black based, pink eyed or black eyed. Unless the stone carries "e" or RY carries "ce," it sounds like you could end up with black or agouti. Pied is also recessive, so unless your stone parent carries "s" then all of your mice would be selves.


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## Seafolly

Really? They wouldn't have a deeper pigment yet?

I was looking at https://www.aalaslearninglibrary.org/de ... sson=26650 and saw at day 3 the black is pretty apparent and these ladies are as pink as their brothers were.


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## Laigaie

There's something more going on, I'd say, as these are definitely not black or agouti. Not if they're three days old. Possibly one of the black-eyed c-dilute combinations, like their dad?


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## sys15

i haven't followed your story, so i don't know how you know that the parents was recessive yellow and stone. if you are just guessing, my first thought would be that one parent was brindle rather than recessive yellow. that seems more likely than a stone carrying ry. or a ry carrying ce. assuming they originated from pet stores.


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## Seafolly

Here are the parents when they first came home.  The mother is satin as well which is hard to tell from that photo. Her fur isn't nearly as long anymore (sad, as my year old ladies have long coats still) but her satin sheen shows up better now.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10334&hilit=dslr

Stone seems likely, given Dad. But yes, they are merely pet store mice so I haven't a clue what to expect.


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## Laigaie

Looking back at mum, my guess is that regardless of which kind of yellow (ry or undermarked brindle) she is, she was C/c. Your black eyed babies, I think, are ce/c, and only time will tell whether they're BEW (and therefore red under the ce/c meaning she's probably undermarked brindle) or Bone (and therefore black under the ce/c).


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## sys15

i don't know how true to life those colors are. he looks much, much lighter than my mice, which i think may be black ce/ce. the tone is different too, he actually looks closer in tone to my mice that are blue based ce/ce (i think). or perhaps a lilac.

not to say he is not a black based ce/ce. my understanding is that they are quite variable.

the female, i dunno, with pink-eye and broken on top of whatever her red/yellow is, i'd think it would be pretty difficult to try and distinguish between possible genes.


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## Seafolly

That buck looks different in every photo I take of him, haha. There was quite a debate when I first posted him. When he shifts you see a chocolate undercoat, but the top is silvery. A new member (from Russia I think) posted her mice and his "twin" is in that thread of photos which I commented on. But it really does vary depending on the angle/light.

Well I'm THRILLED at the possibility of bone or BEW. Ever since I was a child I wanted one. Their black eyed brother had a slight shadow on his shoulders which makes me think they're not going to look the same (or he was the only broken one). The left girl is in literal shadow but she is ever so slightly SLIGHTLY darker. I'll be sure to post more photos as they grow. 

I've done a lot of Googling over the last couple of months and couldn't find any pairing of stone and yellow to even guess from.


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## Seafolly

Two are slightly darker. Hm!

The fun of a test litter. I just wish I had kept a red eyed buck. : /


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## Seafolly




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## Serena

wow, that's a difference.
I'm so curious how they turn out


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## Seafolly

Me too! Each morning I'm hopping out of bed to see the development, and knowing they're unique, I'm even more excited. It's like Christmas every day!


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## Seafolly

sys15 said:


> i don't know how true to life those colors are. he looks much, much lighter than my mice, which i think may be black ce/ce. the tone is different too, he actually looks closer in tone to my mice that are blue based ce/ce (i think). or perhaps a lilac.
> 
> not to say he is not a black based ce/ce. my understanding is that they are quite variable.


I don't know if this helps at all, but the mouse on the left (this is pulled from Satin Flower Mice's thread of her mice) is a spitting image.


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## Seafolly

Call me crazy as I've only known about coat colours for a few weeks but am I seeing two blues? Or is the paler one possibly lilac? Didn't see that coming.


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## Laigaie

I see black, blue, and BEW/Cream. Hard to tell with black and blue, though. I've had light-skinned blacks and dark-skinned blues.


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## Seafolly

But didn't we rule out black because she was pretty pink until a couple of days ago? Obviously I'd defer to you, you know what you're talking about, it's just I saw black pinkies develop on a site (through photos) and it seemed clear early on that they'd be black or agouti. I don't mind black at all, was just wondering.  Or were you suggesting she's a light skinned black?

Also, if I get a BEW on my first breeding attempt I will cry with happiness. :lol: I've just always wanted one.


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## Laigaie

Different lines develop at different rates, to be honest, and until I recently became the unintending owner of a lovely British black, all my blacks have been light-skinned and more sable dusky black than the real darker-than-midnight black.


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## Seafolly

It looks like mine fits that bill. : /



















So...the dark girls are getting closer in colour. And they're rocking that satin metallic look so it's tough to show what I'm seeing (the only drawback to satin I guess). The BEW seems to maybe have some yellow growing in on her left side. I'm not sure if it's just skin though. They went from super awesome to rather average looking awfully fast!


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## Laigaie

At least in the first photo, one of those looks agouti. Are you seeing a sort of golden glow to one or both?


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## doganddisc

I really think they look a like the dark recessive yellow babies I ended up with awhile back.


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## Seafolly

Dark recessive yellow? Just when I thought I couldn't get more confused!

Yeah that really looks agouti.  I don't understand why she looked so blue before. I'm only seeing the golden glow on her so far. That said, photographing them is like photographing their dad - every photo is different. To my eye she's still blue but the camera is picking up things. She's absolutely darkening.


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## Seafolly

To the eye I see more blue but the camera chooses to emphasize agouti.


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## Laigaie

Maybe one of each? And that yellow spot on your mostly-white pup is still there. She could be high-white pied yellow.


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## Seafolly

I think you're right. Blue agouti for the top, blue on bottom (granted a dark dark blue), and a yellow lady like her momma (but with black eyes instead). I guess the debate will be whether or not to breed Tully again, or the mostly white girl up there. The thing with Tully is she's technically long haired so it's nice to have that option.


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## Serena

I know it is hard, but just have a little patience


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## doganddisc

Serena said:


> I know it is hard, but just have a little patience


I keep looking at my litters hoping they'll have sprouted long vibrant fur within the last eight minutes.

Patience. What's that? :roll:


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## Seafolly

Patience? What patience do you speak of? 

My hopes are rather dashed though. Black/agouti/blue aren't huge favourites of mine so it was just the BEW or bone I was really hoping for. Annnnd that's gone. Luck of the draw I guess! They're lovely all the same. I may scout out a home for the darker two ladies and keep the RY with momma. But that's just me thinking aloud.  I don't mind keeping all three but another litter sounds good to me!


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## Frizzle

Idk how blue agouti effects ears, but my regular agouti's have really dark/black ears, whereas my chocolates have that light brown. Also, I can see three large distinct yellow spots on your mainly white mouse. And I think a fourth small one in front of it's left ear.


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## sys15

i took a few photos of some mice that i think are ce/ce. the cooler toned ones are likely blue, the warmer toned ones black. it is likely that some are agouti, but i have not found it possible to distinguish whether they are or not.


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## MojoMouse

The babies are looking very healthy! Maybe they weren't quite what you were hoping for colour-wise, but they've got the genes from their parents, and these could be handy. I'm very interested to see how the pale bub turns out. Also, while the blue agouti (if that's what she turns out to be) may not be useful, the blue girl could be. Blue diluted c/ce and ce/ce are a lovely shade! The blue is so pale it gives a silvery, luminous quality to the c-diluted coats. In satin, that would be spectacular.

The other thing with the bubs is that you should consider their type as well as colour. You never know when a stunning big eared, big eyed little mousie will turn up. If this happens, you'd probably want to lock this into your lines. You can always breed back to the colours you want as the genes are there, even if only carried, not expressed. 



Laigaie said:


> She could be high-white pied yellow.


What's high white? I haven't heard this term before.


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## MojoMouse

I just saw your post, sys15, which went up while I was writing. The blue ce/ce mouse is lovely! Seafolly, that's what I meant about the blue dilute.


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## sys15

MojoMouse said:


> I just saw your post, sys15, which went up while I was writing. The blue ce/ce mouse is lovely! Seafolly, that's what I meant about the blue dilute.


it's a color i find very attractive too. i've seen it called smoke, although i'm not sure how common that name is.

i'm looking forward to working with the blue + ce combination. i need to weed out a lot of other genes, and mix in ch and c. and improve the type. and maybe some other things. but i really like the color.


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## MojoMouse

There are so many different names for this colour, depending on the country. I also love them, and I'm working on them, much as you are.  I've got c, ce, and ch to work with, but the all the dilutes are carried and mixed in, so I'm trying to identify and sort them out so I know what each mouse is specifically.

Blue combines well with cch/ce, cch/c, ce/ce and ce/c. The mice have clearer, cooler tones rather than the warmer colour you get without the blue dilute, which can look a little muddy.


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## Laigaie

High-white just means that the piebald animal has a lot of white on them, as opposed to mostly colored piebalds.

I love blue colorpoint beiges. That's where I've heard the term "smoke", as FinnMouse has those described as colorpoint smoke. Really lovely.


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## Seafolly

Those are really lovely mice! Stark (buck) has what looks like a warm chocolate undertone. I'll have to take him out in the sunlight tomorrow to get a better shot.

High white is probably the only term I know, haha, rats have that.  Or rather, high white rats are generally sought after here. They're getting more common though, despite the megacolon association.

These babies are so adorable. I really, REALLY appreciate everyone's suggestions as to where to go from here. I feel less lost.  I was thinking about potentially adopting out the two dark ladies but a blue beige sounds lovely.


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## doganddisc

How old are those babies, seafolly? I remember our does had litters about the same time- my himi litter doesn't even have all their fur yet but they are HUGE!

If I lived closer I would so take those dark babies off your hands and give you the BEWs you were looking for


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## Seafolly

Gah, I wish I knew someone in this country! It's the border that's really the problem, haha. I'm glad the dark ones appeal!  Now that I got so close to the BEW (or so I thought) that might be the next goal. The RY is the fattest, no doubt. I've been gently petting them (hoping in vain it might help tame them) and she's just pure squish.

They're almost exactly 9 days old in those photos.  Now 9 days and 2 hours. 









I can't help it.


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## MojoMouse

Aww, that pic is just precious! :love1


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## Seafolly

RY missy has an orange bum. Just noticed that. Also the little miss who started as pale blue is now a golden brown. It's really just the dark girl who's staying consistent.


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## Serena

no matter what they are, they look really nice!
love your avatar ^^


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## Seafolly

I visited the store where I picked up Tully today. They have a new shipment in (!!!) and they seem like RY's (though I'd put money on some of those being fawn, they were so dark), beige, lilac, pew, and some really interesting mix of coffee and gold. All satin, mostly longhaired. I wasn't sure if I should grab one, aka, not sure if I'd be adding anything to my gene pool as I'm sure it's the same source. The manager said long haired is the fanciest they ever get though (no texel  ). All female. I'm kind of debating grabbing a long haired RY (self) as they're darker than Tully. But with a beige buck, won't that lighten?

Thanks Serena! Upside down bathtime is the best.


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## sys15

what are you breeding for? was it dark eyed, light-colored selfs? a lot of the genes you mentioned could help you get there, but how do you know what you're seeing? if you have a bunch of yellowish, beigeish, coffeeish, goldish, lilacish diluted mice all jumbled together, i'd be pretty cautious about guessing what genes they express (much less carry!). but if you don't mind doing a bunch of test crosses, you can probably get some dark-eyed light selfs out of that mix.


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## Seafolly

Excellent question! I hate to say it but I'm not yet certain. I think right now I'm just scoping out what's available in my area (not much!) and choosing my favourites from that. Unfortunately it's all guesswork since it was just a cage of roughly ten females, no parents or brothers. Most were dark eyed (except the potential fawns and RY's and PEWs). Only one marked. They weren't a bad looking lot either, longer coats, bigger ears, and bigger bodies overall. But, same breeder (wish they'd tell me the source!). So to pursue the test crossing, this would mean another pairing with my original two, and then a daughter or two? Or do you mean picking up a couple more does and crossing them to the buck?

(thank you for talking this out with me! I wish I had someone to talk mouse with in person, I have so much to learn)


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## doganddisc

Seafolly said:


> Excellent question! I hate to say it but I'm not yet certain. I think right now I'm just scoping out what's available in my area (not much!) and choosing my favourites from that. Unfortunately it's all guesswork since it was just a cage of roughly ten females, no parents or brothers. Most were dark eyed (except the potential fawns and RY's and PEWs). Only one marked. They weren't a bad looking lot either, longer coats, bigger ears, and bigger bodies overall. But, same breeder (wish they'd tell me the source!). So to pursue the test crossing, this would mean another pairing with my original two, and then a daughter or two? Or do you mean picking up a couple more does and crossing them to the buck?
> 
> (thank you for talking this out with me! I wish I had someone to talk mouse with in person, I have so much to learn)


IMHO there is nothing wrong with not being certain until you find the color that works best for you. I had the chance to go to Rodentfest this past April and went intending to buy mice that were completely different from what I ended up with. I hadn't even considered Himalayan until I saw them in person- I fell completely in love with the color and bought five of them 

Keep looking. When you find something you love, buy it.  In the meantime, there are some great genetic info sites (like Finnmouse) that can help you with understanding how to get what you're looking for.


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## sys15

by test cross, i just mean any pairing that is designed to illuminate the genes of the parents. it might often by a cross to a relative, but it could also be a cross to an unrelated animal with a genotype that should help to determine the genes of the other parent (for example crossing an unknown c diluted animal with an albino).

indeed there is nothing wrong with not having a focused goal. you may come across one as you go along. or you might simply decide what you really like is diversity and not knowing what any given litter will yield.

recessive yellow are dark-eyed, btw. unless also expressing some pink-eyed trait.


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## Seafolly

I get way too excited when I see there are replies to this thread. Thanks again guys!

I'm definitely leaning towards picking up the presumed albino (I'm not sure that's what she is, but to the eye she's PEW satin long haired). That said, now that you've tossed it out there, I really do LOVE diversity and not knowing what the litter will yield. That's partially why I adored doing this cross as the females ended up looking distinct from one another. My concern is crossing something that will only yield a certain type (or two). I purposely chose a self and a broken to breed to amp up the variety.  So another breeding makes sense since we know they do throw unknowns.

Ah this pink eyed RY thing really throws me as it came up on TMC. Tully is pink eyed. She has more yellow to her than her daughter for sure, I'm just not sure what that means in reference to the eyes. Is there an advantage to breeding her over her dark eyed daughter? 
(I've yet to see if any daughters are long haired)


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## MojoMouse

I'm very excited by your breeding options and plans!  So many decisions!!!

I mentioned this in another poster's thread, and will mention it here as well, even though I'm sure I sound a bit fanatical... but keep in mind conformation/type as well as colour choices. If you want to see improvement in your mice, and have them become noticeably superior to the pet shop mice, you'll need to work on type as well as colour. (I'm sure I sound like a broken record with this.) 

But back to colour, the PEW sound like a good option. Could you have two litters next - one a repeat mating and the other with the PEW if you end up getting it? That would give you variety, and also be a good step in working out what the genes are.


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## Seafolly

Oh it's always worth repeating! The RY baby looked like a clear winner of the three. She's a little chubbier, but her skull is also wider and I've noticed her tail is already the same width as her mother's and she's only 12 days old. The buck is definitely a better type so perhaps she's taking after him. There was another beige available (female though) who had very long ears but I couldn't bring myself to duplicate the coat types. Don't worry about sounding fanatical! You can't repeat things enough for new kids like myself.

I like the plan.  Now to find another tank...there's a huge sale at the pet store and every tank (that I can carry 2 miles) is sold out. If she's still there next week I'll go take another peek for sure (I leave the city tonight as I'm shooting a wedding).  So females need a month of rest and recuperation after weaning, right?


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## Seafolly




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## LUX

Oooh they are beautiful <3


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## MojoMouse

Their colours are really developing, and are quite surprising. I love the mouse on top in the 2nd pic - she looks quite unusual, and very pretty!


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## Seafolly

Thanks guys!










The darkest girl opened her eyes yesterday, and as of last night the RY only had one eye open. I've yet to peek in on them today but here's our snuggle fest last night.


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## MojoMouse

Aww, so sweet. They're going to be super tame mousies!


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## Serena

hey, how are your little ones doing?
How have the colours developed?


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## Seafolly

Whoops! Sorry about taking off! I shot a wedding and taking photos let alone uploading them seemed like quite a task.  They're lovely. Almost 3 weeks old now. The colours stopped changing (thank goodness) so I wasn't as on the ball there.

Introductions...without names.  These photos are two days old.

Girl 1:









She is growing an absolutely lovely long coat. However, she has small eyes and small ears. That said, I adore her head shape...her face is not pointed like the others.

Girl 2:









Nice thick tail compared to her sisters. Spitting image of momma only with black eyes.

Girl 3:

















I was actually thinking of adopting her out but her eyes! Oh my! And her personality. <3 She's in the popcorn stage too but calms down first. Is she agouti? She doesn't look like the agouti girl I had when I was a child. She's got quite a golden hue. Funny as she looked pale blue originally! I have no idea which of these ladies I'll breed. Clearly this is where goals come in. I still love the idea of variety though!


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## MojoMouse

Girl 3 is beautiful - I love her colour. It looks to be choc based with some dilute happening. Quite unusual. On my screen it looks to be a golden coppery based brown. The other two girls are pretty as well. Congrats on how these bubs have turned out. They look the picture of health.


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## Seafolly

Thank you so much!  I'm absolutely loving her too. I was definitely expecting a dull coat but no, she's amazing. I can't imagine what she could be. As a bub she had a pale blue colour. And then this...in person she does look like a yellow/golden brown. But her spine is a little darker. It's hard to tell even in person due to their satin coats. Every angle shifts the shade. If she's chocolate based I'm for sure breeding this little one down the line.

I was a little worried about the high white girl. One of her eyes remained shut for a few days and it looked wet around the slit. However, it kept drying off so I tried not to fret. Now she looks completely okay. *whew*

Unfortunately now I have an argument to breed each one.  They all seem reasonably tame though. They don't like being picked up but once in my hands they chill out. No nippers yet. And Tully seems completely okay with me snatching them. Overall a pretty great first litter!


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## Serena

LOVE girl 2. gorgeous!


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## Seafolly

She's the one I've been intending to breed all this time.  Except now that I see she's just like her mother (but with black eyes and less yellow) I'm not sure there'd be anything to gain? I feel like I have a million questions, ha.

The blue girl has the longest coat and a lovely compact head (not portrayed well in that shot) but her ears and eyes are soooo tiny. And I don't even know what to make of girl 3 in terms of what to expect out of her crossed with her beige dad. Fortunately there's lots of time to think on it.


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## MojoMouse

Pairing the copperish girl with her dad would give you a good start for a line of mice with genes and modifyers for the beautiful eyes.  It could also turn up some interesting colours.


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## Seafolly

She definitely got them from him.  I think so long as the litter is unpredictable it'll satisfy my hope to see more variety. That said, I'm still curious to see if any c dilutes popped up that I had culled so I think another from Tully is a definite. Am I right in thinking one waits a month after the babies are weaned at least? Pregnancy suited her well, she needed beefing up and still looks more solid than she did before pregnancy.

...and then I look at the blue girl's head. And wispy coat. (actually I'm not sure if the other two are standards! If they're long haired they aren't good examples that's for sure)


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## Seafolly




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## AyJay658

I love the light brown doe =) Is she umbrous? I was looking at umbrous hamsters/mice yesterday ad they have the darker strip on the back blending into the lighter undercoat.


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## Seafolly

Her spine is certainly darker, but I'm unfamiliar with the standards of umbrous. In other words, should it be more defined? I love her too.  It's going to be hard to choose who to breed next.


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## AyJay658

Apparently umbrous is just a pattern but not a type as such? http://www.thefunmouse.com/varieties/im ... ableLG.jpg This mouse is listed as sable (although they say she isnt really a sable, just looks like one) but she has umbrous patterning. Also, some of the pictures had mice with lighter on the top and going to darker! I rather like the effect of dark on light though =)


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## MojoMouse

Lovely photos. Your mouse youngsters must be very used to the camera by now, and seem very happy to respond to photo opportunities to show off their cuteness. :lol:

The yellow marked girl is the image of her mum in terms of features. She's so pretty! The blue girl is nice too. Her coat will grow some more and gain some density, though it won't even be as long as a male's.

My fave is still the copperish toned girl. So unusual! I just can't work out what she is. AyJay may be right with the unbrous suggestion, except that umbrous usually gives more of a sooty, muddy appearance and doesn't show for a few weeks. Her belly is so pale but there's not a demarcation line - just a gradual blend to the colour. She doesn't fit any standards that I'm aware of, but she's really lovely. 

Wait till they get wise up and get themselves organised - before you know it you'll get a bill for these photo sessions, and their agent will be in contact. :lol:


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## Fraction

Oh my god, the white and cream banded-y looking girl (my descriptions are amazing, haha) is just too cute. I want her!


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## Seafolly

She was my hope! But she's turned out much paler than her momma.

I'm attaching a photo of the mother as I don't think I've done that before. She's much more orange to the eye compared to that daughter.










I'm not sure how to produce more like her, if not a richer colour. If I bought an RY buck, would the fetuses get reabsorbed?


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## MojoMouse

The mother is such a pretty mouse - very delicate features. 

RY isn't a lethal gene when homozygous, unlike dominant yellow, Ay. There's a lot of helpful information in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10577 I'm not sure whether you saw it. Basically, recessive yellow has got a lot of potential if bred carefully. I wish I could get hold of the variety!


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## Seafolly

Oh my! I did miss that! Thank you! So assuming my buck is on a black background (beige I think was the consensus) that explains why that unique doe eyed girl is so sooty and odd (I love her unique look though). I admittedly don't know what p/p or e/e is though and can't seem to find those on the Finnish site. I'll post updated shots next week, though they look pretty much the same. You can really see the golden hue on the copper girl when she stretches while cleaning.

So happy it's not lethal. It seems my colour choices are limited to beige, blue, RY, PEW, and various pale shades that appear to be dove or lilac.

I'm also happy to hear a good review of momma! I always compare her to mice I see on here and thus don't rate her highly but it's not like I can ever attend shows so it doesn't really matter.  Personality and health is really all I can keep as a priority.


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## sys15

Seafolly said:


> I admittedly don't know what p/p or e/e is though and can't seem to find those on the Finnish site.


p/p is homozygous for pink-eyed dilution and e/e is homozygous for recessive yellow. it is what you are hypothesizing your mouse is.


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## Seafolly

sys15 said:


> p/p is homozygous for pink-eyed dilution and e/e is homozygous for recessive yellow. it is what you are hypothesizing your mouse is.


Thank you! I should have remembered p/p. e/e I hadn't come across yet. And yes, totally guessing here. I haven't personally seen red but it doesn't mean it's not around.


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## Seafolly

Family shot from last week. Those things are tricky!


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