# I'm At a Loss



## Paradigmatic (Jan 22, 2013)

In the past two days I have had twelve mice die.
7/9 boys from my first litter.
One pied male - a gift, sadly.
Two pregnant satin females.

I'm just really at a loss for what to do, say, or what the cause would be.

Our regular cleaning schedule has been maintained.
Water has been filled at the same time every day.
Food hasn't changed since December.

One day they seem fine, the next they're dead.
My satin female and her buck were curled up together still in their nest.

I'm incredibly worried for the remaining mice.
I still have two bucks, five does, and six fat healthy pups.

I just... with no signs from it... I don't know what to do other than disinfect EVERYTHING.


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## WoodWitch (Oct 18, 2009)

God that's awful! 
Have you considered external factors? Where are they? A gas leak perhaps? Something contaminating their water?


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

Any sudden mass loss is an external factor-If there were any Bacteria or Viruses that could kill an animal or human stone dead overnight -well we would all be dead long ago. I have recently experienced something similar to you, and that was the first time in 40 years of keeping very large studs of Exhibition mice. We all get the odd death, and this can go down to failure of some kind within the Mouse. One morning I checked on the stud as usual and found one mother and litter stone dead. Had the doe died and the litter had been half dead with cold and barely moving I would of not been worried and dealt with the litter, but the fact is they were all stone dead and they had been perfect 12 hours before. Going through the stud I found 7 other similar deaths. All appearing to be in perfect health, except of course, stone dead. I buy all my foods in bulk, and each and every ingredient is bought in separately. In the previous week I had run out of flaked maize, and got a fresh sack in. Following a great deal of research and testing, which I shall not bore you with, one small section of that sack contained flaked maize which was heavily infected with aflatoxin Poison, which had been dried in and sealed in with the flaking process. My advice to you is this, immediately change your mouse food, as I suspect you have similar. Just feed them something very simple like human grade oats and brown bread until the problem clears up, there will be some that the poison has damaged, and there will be other symptoms start to show in your remaining stock, like going light etc, but the new food will be stopping any new cases. With your disinfection, you must disinfect the outside s the boxes and underneath, this stops your fingers lifting and spreading the disease if you have one to the next box. -inside the box is a bit to late. I hope this helps. Should this not be the case, I will show you a method of preventing the spread of any disease in your stud, including Rota virus ,in its tracks.


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

I agree with Wight Isle Stud and suspect food to be contaminated as whether one buys in bulk or fancy packaging if a particular brand is used then both are filled using a larger hopper and whilst the maufacturers endeavour to keep the feed stuffs free of any contamination like us they have no control over their suppliers for the raw materials.

I too buy in bulk and now have a routine of purchasing from 2 different suppliers so that although the feed is very similar they are from different parts of the country and as such no drastic change in diet to upset the digestive system. Hygiene also plays an important part and Like Wight Isle Stud said disinfecting the exterior of the cages is just as important as the inside, after doing this I also ensure my hands are sanitised before handling any food or animals so as to prevent spread of contamination or other germs.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Agree with Wight Isle Stud. Sounds like poisoning to me. You said you hadn't changed food, do you mean brand/supplier, or actual container/sack of food? Although, as stated, one small part in a whole can be contaminated.

I also buy my food bulk, in whole seeds and grains. I have mostly human grade, because I've not found any other grade I'm happy with yet. So they eat what we eat, except two kinds of seeds. I suppose I do have the multiple supplier source as well, like pro-petz. Every time I find a new source of a bulk item (with what seems to be a more acceptable quality/price), I buy it, but I don't combine it with the other sourced grain/seed. Kind of makes a storage nightmare, at times, but my household eats these grains/seeds too, so I'd rather not take too many chances.

Hope the last ones make it through this. Seconding the human grade oats, and wholemeal bread, for a while.

Take care,
Zanne


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## Paradigmatic (Jan 22, 2013)

They've all been eating from the same container/mixture of food for the past few months - with one exception of Ion is mildly spoiled because he lives next to my computer, except he's still quite fine and active despite his extras.

I can't even recall any fresh food being offered to one cage, that there wasn't offered to another cage from the very same plant. (ie; fruit/veggies/etc cut into equal portions from one initial piece.)

And I'd have imagined that since I do that, if I messed up on a safe-or-not plant then they would all be dead or at least have weird stool, rather than having mice from the same line both healthy appearing and dead.

Water is filled daily from the tap to a jug, and from that jug to the water bottles.

Sigh. Guess I should get up and do another head count.


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

Sorry for your losses, it sounds horrible!
I'm curious about what happened after your last post. Any more deaths, and did you find the source?


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## Paradigmatic (Jan 22, 2013)

No idea on source. All 8 juvenile males from a size 11 litter passed away. One unrelated male. Two pregnant satin females.

This left two males, five females (three from the 11 litter), and six pups completely healthy during and after the entire thing.

So genetic and gender-connected health problems ruled out, as the juvenile males were in separate cages, their sisters and parents were fine, and an entire separate line also partially passed away, but with the females passing away instead of the males. If it was a poisoning, well, I will never be sure of what caused it, as everything down to the bedding and up to the food and even the cleaning methods are the same for every cage, done all at once.


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## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

I have no idea what it could have been... But very happy to hear that it seems to be over now! I know how it feels to lose a great deal of your stock at once.


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## ThatCertainGlow (Jun 23, 2012)

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear some stayed completely healthy! How frustrating, and sad though.


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