# some red mice of Jack's Mousery



## Jack Garcia

Here are some pictures of some red mice I've bred. When they were taken, two does were pregnant, but they're generally chubby anyway.

Their type is moderate, and their color varies from mouse to mouse a little bit (especially with satin), but overall I think they're pretty good reds.






















































































































All three were (somewhat obviously, lol) used for breeding.


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## shiremice

Posting again...they are lovely. Such rich coloring!


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## JustMouse

Absolutely beautiful! And adorable! Their color is beautiful. What are they playing in, by the way?


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## minibears

lovely mice, u take beautiful photos jack


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## Jack Garcia

Thanks, y'all!

They're playing in little balls made of florist's foam. I don't know what they're actually called, or if they even have a name other than "florist's foam."


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## Roland

Great pics as always, Jack, and nice to see them


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## Kallan

All I can think of when I look at those photos is.. BALL POOL!!!!!! :lol:


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## FeralWolf

i love the red coat! i need a couple reds... anyway, the balls look like real fun! :lol:


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## The Boggit keeper

They are lovely Jack, such vibrant colour and such super pics that always seem to capture those expressive mousey faces just spot-on!


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## Roland

Jack Garcia said:


> Here are some pictures of some red mice I've bred. When they were taken, two does were pregnant, but they're generally chubby anyway.
> 
> Their type is moderate, and their color varies from mouse to mouse a little bit (especially with satin), but overall I think they're pretty good reds.


Hi Jack, just curious, you sugggested inbreeding of good lines in another thread. Are you still inbreeding the red line too? Are you happy with the fertility of the reds?
Best regards, and keep up the good work, 
Roland


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## laoshu

fantastic photos and stunning red mice


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## zany_toon

They are a beautiful colour  And I agree with Kallan - it does look like they are playing int heir very own ball pool :lol:


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## Jack Garcia

Roland said:


> Jack Garcia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some pictures of some red mice I've bred. When they were taken, two does were pregnant, but they're generally chubby anyway.
> 
> Their type is moderate, and their color varies from mouse to mouse a little bit (especially with satin), but overall I think they're pretty good reds.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jack, just curious, you sugggested inbreeding of good lines in another thread. Are you still inbreeding the red line too? Are you happy with the fertility of the reds?
> Best regards, and keep up the good work,
> Roland
Click to expand...

Yep, so far. I'm happy with the reds' fertility when inbred. Sometimes a female takes a while to get pregnant, or cannibalizes her first litter, but that happens with non-red mice, too. I am on the look-out for a line to outcross them into. I am looking for agouti, cinnamon, chocolate, or tan varieties related to those. But it appears no one in the US has true-breeding mice in this family, other than me.

Next spring, I may try to obtain some agoutis anyway and try to create my own line of unrelated, true-breeding agoutis, though I know this will take a few years. *le sigh*


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## Roland

Jack Garcia said:


> Roland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jack, just curious, you sugggested inbreeding of good lines in another thread. Are you still inbreeding the red line too? Are you happy with the fertility of the reds?
> Best regards, and keep up the good work,
> Roland
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, so far. I'm happy with the reds' fertility when inbred. Sometimes a female takes a while to get pregnant, or cannibalizes her first litter, but that happens with non-red mice, too. I am on the look-out for a line to outcross them into. I am looking for agouti, cinnamon, chocolate, or tan varieties related to those. But it appears no one in the US has true-breeding mice in this family, other than me.
> 
> Next spring, I may try to obtain some agoutis anyway and try to create my own line of unrelated, true-breeding agoutis, though I know this will take a few years. *le sigh*
Click to expand...

I used this line of Dominant Reds to select my Golden Agoutis, which I need for improving the colour of Recessive Reds. This works quite well. Nevertheless l do not like the line because of the poor type and the lower fertility, which seems to be transferred to the Recessive Reds togethere with the better colour, unfrotunately. On the other hand the Ay/A line we both have now is a very good source for transferring pheomelanines to other reddish varieties. 
From my experience the outcrosses of this Ay/A line to typier mice results in a loss of red pheomelanines in the F1, but you get them back, if you cross the F1 back to the P. I think it should be possible for you to improve type and get some interesting colours, just by mixing them with your best Silver Agoutis or Chinchillas and continue with F1 x P or F1 x F1.
I hope to get dark pink eyed cinnamons from a UK fawn line some day, this will be my first choice for outcrosses with (hopefully) better type and fertility. So far I will continue with the recessive reds, which are not as dark as setter red, just orange, but have better condition.

Roland


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## Roland

Jack, 
another idea for outcrossing: 
Instead of further inbreeding the inbred reds you got from me, you could outcross to some very good Chocolate Tans. 
Further inbreeding of my inbred line offers little chance for improvements. Outcrossing to good Choco Tans would give very interesting Choco Sables, which should still be rare or even not available in the USA, and will provide the advantage that you can audit the transfer of pheomelanine very well: The amount of pheomelanine enhanciing factors is visible in the F1 already and it is very easy to monitor the quality of red in the backcross. 
Btw, this is not my idea, it was described by Tony Cooke centuries ago...

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


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## Jack Garcia

Tony Cooke is still alive. I don't think he developed anything centuries ago! 

If I could find some good chocolate tans, cinnamons, agoutis, or perhaps even acceptable fawns I'd use them.


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## Roland

Jack Garcia said:


> Tony Cooke is still alive. I don't think he developed anything centuries ago!


probably you know that this was just a language probleme: Decades instead of centuries. 
This time your arguments are good and true 

Tony Cooke, 1977
Exhibition and Pet Mice, ISBN 0 904558258

A fantastic book, I love it.
Best regards, Roland


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## geordiesmice

I got that book for christmas very informative.Does Tony Cook still keep mice he will be quite old now I would think?


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## Jack Garcia

I love the book (and recommend it) as well. Tony Cooke doesn't keep mice anymore, but he does fancy cavies. He's one of three or four people I'd give all my mice to if he asked.


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## Seawatch Stud

Tony dosen't keep mice anymore, that's correct. He does keep and show Cavies, and is very much still alive! I speak to him on facebook most days, Gary and I convinced him to join this forum. He is a member on here but is not an active participant. You have a few friends in common on facebook I would think Jack. If you send him a friends request I'm sure he would accept you. Katy is friends with you and him I think.


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## Jack Garcia

I will do that. To be honest, I am a bit intimidated by him and all his accomplishments (not the least of which is getting a mouse book published, something I've been trying to do). Maybe "intimidated" isn't the right word. It's more of a large dose of respect and admiration, I think.


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## Somergal

Ooooo! More pretty reds!! Yay!
...


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## holeinthewallmousery

Wow... I think I'm in love with your mice :lol:


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## SarahC

Jack Garcia said:


> I love the book (and recommend it) as well. Tony Cooke doesn't keep mice anymore, but he does fancy cavies. He's one of three or four people I'd give all my mice to if he asked.


He signed my book at the show yesterday


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## Jack Garcia

Jealous!


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## SarahC

you need to come over to Harrogate next year,book in hand.


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## Loveydovey

oh wow, what a colour! are'nt they stunning.


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## minibears

jack, u're our tony cooke in australia, we love u an use ure photos as examples all the time, we have nothing like ure mice here however. i have seen ure article about the comparison btw pet and show mice used on an aus forum also. pls send us ure books  breeding mice is the unlikely event in which science and art come together, and u balance both


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## unicorn

Absolutely beautiful colour, I really like them.


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## bethmccallister

> u're our tony cooke in australia


Wow Jack, I hope to be able to get a compliment of this magnitude at some stage of my life


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## Jack Garcia

Thanks! But my book isn't published (or fully written!) yet. I'm waiting until I have a better chance to travel and do some in-person interviews and research some lab papers. And by necessity it will be focused on the American fancy so I don't know how useful it'd be in Australia.


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## minibears

ure still our hero


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## Jack Garcia

Haha. I'm flattered, but I think you're over-estimating me.


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## minibears

just smile and say ok :lol:


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