# Dove Tan and Himmilayan



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

I have two females pregnant this time which is fantastic! For some reason before this, my females just refused to get pregnant at the same time and would always end up being 2 weeks apart so I could never foster babies over if need be. 
My Dove Tan was put with my Dilute Agouti. Assuming she gives birth on the 19th day, I should have babies on the 12th  I also put my Himmilayan with my Siamese buck who should be due less than 3 days after Dove.

Originally Dove weighed 26g and as of today she is 46g and still a week to go! Ava - Himmilayan, was 25g and is now 39g so all is going well for now.


----------



## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

They are lovely mice, especially Ava! Her nose ppoint has come up nicely. They'll make beautiful babies!  Sorry I can't make any useful suggestions or comments, but I've never worked with shaded mice.

It's useful having the two litters. I usually keep them apart for the first week while the mothers get the hang of things, then often combine the litters (assuming you can tell which baby is from which mum) so the mothers can work together and have company. I've never had a problem with this, even if the babies are two or three days apart, as long as the litters are smallish.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

MojoMouse said:


> They are lovely mice, especially Ava! Her nose ppoint has come up nicely. They'll make beautiful babies!  Sorry I can't make any useful suggestions or comments, but I've never worked with shaded mice.


It's their first litters so I'm excited and so nervous. Ava and her sister Nova are my favorite mice and even if Nova won't help with himmilayan breeding (she's a champagne with similar markings to the Berkshire marked on hiiret) they are both staying with me 
I can't believe how much Ava has changed since I got her, she looked almost like a broken beige (obviously not due to her ruby eyes) and now she's got a lovely nose point but lacks in all the other points :/ she's paired with a lovely buck though, all the points but his base coat is to dark for my liking. 
I was going to pair Dove with the same buck as Ava in hope of getting some self blacks that carried ch buy that failed miserably. Even though Ava and Dove were cage mates, add a male to the mix and Dove gets.. "nasty" towards Ava. No blood but lots of squeaking and nipping.

I was thinking I would combine the litters at about a week, well put them in the same cage at least and hoped it worked out. I'll cull the litters down once pigments come through though obviously if one has over 10, I'll cull to 8-10 on day one.


----------



## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

If and when you combine the litters, remove both mothers and put them together in a small holding tank with a little hide containers and a bowl of treats. In the enclosure put fresh substrate, but put some bedding from each mum in the new, larger nest, add the babies, then mix well. 

Leave the mums together for at least 10 minutes, then put them into the enclosure. Watch them carefully for the first few minutes. they'll run around, exploring, and checking out the bubs. Even if they chase each other a bit, don't worry unless they bite. They'll smell each other. They can smell another mum who's lactating. When they settle, they'll be fine.

The nest should have enough room for two baby piles, because mothers working together often have one feeding a pile, and another toileting and grooming a pile that's been fed.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

MojoMouse said:


> If and when you combine the litters, remove both mothers and put them together in a small holding tank with a little hide containers and a bowl of treats. In the enclosure put fresh substrate, but put some bedding from each mum in the new, larger nest, add the babies, then mix well.
> 
> Leave the mums together for at least 10 minutes, then put them into the enclosure. Watch them carefully for the first few minutes. they'll run around, exploring, and checking out the bubs. Even if they chase each other a bit, don't worry unless they bite. They'll smell each other. They can smell another mum who's lactating. When they settle, they'll be fine.
> 
> The nest should have enough room for two baby piles, because mothers working together often have one feeding a pile, and another toileting and grooming a pile that's been fed.


Ok so now I have a question, what can I use as a nest box for when the litters are combined? 13cm by 9cm is what I use for single mums but that won't be big enough for two mums together right?


----------



## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

I think that'll be fine. Roomy enough, but not enough room that they can snuggle up together, lazing around and ignoring their babies.  When they're in the nest, they're on the babies keeping them warm or attending to them. They will occasionally take a break outside the nest when they need to.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

MojoMouse said:


> I think that'll be fine. Roomy enough, but not enough room that they can snuggle up together, lazing around and ignoring their babies.  When they're in the nest, they're on the babies keeping them warm or attending to them. They will occasionally take a break outside the nest when they need to.


Oh Mojo, can't thank you enough.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Oh god.. I was hoping they wouldn't have to bigger litters, I'm not sure how I'm going to go about culling if they both have big litters. From the dove tan im wanting a self black but until their fuzz comes through a decent amount, the agouti babies can look like self blacks. Then from the himmilayan I'm wanting himmilayan but they were put to a Siamese so I could get them..
Point being...

Dove has now doubled her weight as of yesterday when she was 53g and Ava was 46g


----------



## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

Not long for the babies now!  Hopefully they'll only have average size litters, or fewer.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

My last lovely lady didn't manage to double her weight and had 9. 
I'm going to probably have to cull day 1 to make the litters manageable. Hopefully I have some girls in each litters.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Today was cage cleaning day in prep for the lovely ladies giving birth. I do hope Dove pops soon..
Weight check today as well and bloody hell.. Dove started at 26 and is now a HUGE 60! Luckily Ava is smaller going from 25 to 46.

Ava still doesn't look pregnant in photos but I assure you, she has a pretty big belly!


----------



## sys15 (Nov 26, 2011)

the pigment on that himalayan's nose is fantastic.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

sys15 said:


> the pigment on that himalayan's nose is fantastic.


Thank you  She pretty much lacks every other point though which is a total shame - she is such a sweet heart! She is paired with my boy Magic.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Babies!!!
Ava had babies. I'm shocked! Thought she was a week off.. Well not a week but a few days.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

How on earth do you guys get decent pictures of your pinkies? Mine always end up blurry and such like the picture below.
I did a quick count while Ava was out having something to eat, I counted 10  THANK GOD its not more.


----------



## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

congrats! and i realy like magic
For pinkie photos i use the macro setting on the camera (the button normaly looks like a flower) this allows they camera to phocus on things closer to the lense better.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

PPVallhunds said:


> congrats! and i realy like magic
> For pinkie photos i use the macro setting on the camera (the button normaly looks like a flower) this allows they camera to phocus on things closer to the lense better.


Glad you like him. He hasn't settled down though and continually tries to escape which is a pain but I have some of his babies now  
Ohhhh! I'll have to find that, my camera isn't really flash but I've seen the flower thing appear on screen once before.


----------



## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

thats fab ... congrats


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Please don't tell me I'm looking at an all boy litter..
Guys.. Help?


----------



## Gill (Sep 16, 2011)

It might just be the angle the photos were taken, but the gaps between anus and genitals on 3, 5, 9 and 10 look to be smaller than the rest. In which case, there are at least four does.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

So I culled 3 just before - 10 just seemed like to much and there were a few who were a little runty. I use my Dads old gun powder weigher and according to that, the runty ones were between 3-5 grains less than the others. Its weird seeing a litter that looks like they have no eyes, the pink/red blends in so well to their naked little bodies. 
The bum pictures are terrible, I only got one picture of each because I didn't want to stress Ava out any more than I needed to. I think there is 3 boys and 4 girls though one of the "girls" is debatable.



















































And a few other photos


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Dove popped today, 15 babies!
And here's the surprise twist, some have pink eyes!!! Her boyfriend is Junior my Dilute Agouti - his grandma was a fawn.

I'm super super happy!


----------



## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

It's raining mouselings!  Very exciting for you.

I can't really help with the sexing pics because most are too blurry. Interestingly, though, the last one shows the size of the main blood vessel in the tail. It's big in relation to the tail size, and it's the mechanism they use to regulate body temperature as adults.

Anyway, congrats for the two litters!


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

MojoMouse said:


> It's raining mouselings!  Very exciting for you.
> 
> I can't really help with the sexing pics because most are too blurry. Interestingly, though, the last one shows the size of the main blood vessel in the tail. It's big in relation to the tail size, and it's the mechanism they use to regulate body temperature as adults.
> 
> Anyway, congrats for the two litters!


Mojo, you should teach a class. A Mousey class! I'd fly over to attend a bunch - if I had the money of course. The blood vessel is huge! It's like a 1/3 of the tail width. I was looking at it today. What I thought was neat was the skill fragments in the other shots, is their skull similar to that of a human baby how it's in pieces rather than whole?

25 babies born in total, culled 8 already. Feeling oddly ok. Dad will.. Deal to them in the morning. Freezer method, I just can't bring myself to take them out for some reason.

Still happy. Never had a litter of 15 before. Biggest I ever had was a HUGE total of... 9. Haha.
I'll sex them when pigment comes through. I'll leave the mummas be til tomorrow night.


----------



## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

thats fab news congrats on all the babies x


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

So I decided that if the baby looks like this...








Its a girl.

And this..








A boy.

Going by that, Dove has 1 boy and 5 girls. I had to cull the litter down because two had super tiny milk bellies, almost non-existent and were smaller. Such a shame - both girls. I kept one of the pink eyed babies because I'm curious if it will be a dove, argente or something from hidden c dilutes. I know the Dad is diluted but I'm not sure about Dove..
















And Ava, gosh her babies are little fatties  2 boys and 5 girls. I'm only keeping two boys because I'm not sure if I want a siamese or a himmilayan buck or both.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Just my luck huh? Dove carries the spotting gene. :evil: Isn't that always the case? The one time you want something, you get everything but. They are a little.. thinner than I would like. Ok, not thinner but they are wrinklier than I'd like but they are growing and doing well otherwise. Full milk bellies and all.
I decided not to get individual pictures of Ava's litter, they are all pink so nothing to interesting to see there. Group nest shot though.








And of course, here's Doves litter. Individual shots. I think there are 3 selfs but they are all still pink - no pigment on them so I'm wondering what the heck they are. 


























































The second picture is my little pink eyes girl. Curious as to what colours they all will be. Cause I have absolutely no idea any more.


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Avas litter : 









Doves litter :


----------



## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

aww they are so cute i cant wait to have my first litter of little mice ...


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Your first litter is amazing and nerve wracking. 
I have had the odd litter over 2 years ago which is how I got my old man Basil but I did stop breeding til now. Point being is I had forgotten how small pinkies can be. When I first saw them I thought they were adorable and I was so nervous to pick them up but I knew I had too. So there's me, standing there trying to pick up a pinky and my had is shaking so badly that every time I try to pick one up.. I miss.

I was so afraid I'd squish one or something..


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Fuzz is here - sort of. Ava's litter is 8 days old and Doves is 7 days 
And still, I'm confused as all heck..

Here's Avas litter. The first two are the boys, the next are the girls.















And here's Doves litter.









I have no idea what I'm looking at..


----------



## Kitsune_Gem (Oct 15, 2011)

Aww so cute


----------



## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Soooo an update!
I took pictures today to show off their markings and everything, it went ok. No babies popcorning thank god.

























































































































4, 10 and 12 are boys.
I'm keeping about 4 of them in all.


----------



## 4mb3rNich0l3 (Dec 22, 2011)

cutee!! Love your himmi by the way  There all adorable!


----------



## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I clearly need to go through ALL your threads because I love the day to day updates. I thought I was the only one who did that, haha.

p.s. I think spots are cute!


----------

