# Some questions again



## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

Are these mice Argente umbrouse?
And does umbrouse only shows in agouti forms ?

This an argente male I had.




























And this argente satin tan male I have right now!




























And what colour do you think this splashed male is. I already opened a topic before.. But I got some better pictures now..














































I bought him as a/a B/* ce/ch D/* P/* (black eyed siamese)
I bred him to a siamese girl and this are the baby's.. I'm also not knowing the colour of them. 
I thought maybe silvered burmese.. That would explain the ticking and the weird colour of the father


























And this splashed male was also in that litter. What do you think he is? I think burmese splashed but he has lighten up..

This was he (his butt ) as a baby..









And now


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

Someone??


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

Please someone?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

What makes you tink the argente(s) are umbrous?

It can be hard to say with the splashed meeces. I'd venture a guess in the region of shaded siamese, maybe bluepoint?

The last one I haven't a clue. The lighter ones in that litter could be lilac agouti, maybe. Which would make the one you singled out splashed lilac. Points may show later in life.

Guesses for grabs, anyone?


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Couldn't possibly guess on the rest, but I, too, see no reason to believe the argente are umbrous. They look perfectly clear and fine to my eyes.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

The argentes are umbrous, which describes a concentration of black pigment at the spine. As the black pigment is diluted to dove on an argente, they have a dove stripe down their backs. On an agouti it would appear as a dark stripe down the spine. For showing, argentes should be selectively bred to be an even mix of gold and silver ticking all over with dove only showing when you blow the fur to reveal the undercoat.

Your splashed buck looks Siamese based to me and the little browny beige kittens look like black eyed Siamese and red eyed Siamese.

Sarah xxx


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## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

He is likely to be CPB since he has points and, after pairing him to siamese, you have CPB in your litter (no siamese?). The ticking and weird colour makes me think he is agouti based. CPB, like beige, himi and bone, can hide agouti (almost) completely and you couldn't tell unless with a trained eye.


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

I think the argentes are umbrous because of the silver backs they have! I never tought of it until I red about umbrous. And thought that could explain the silver backs.

The splashed buck I'm showing can't be just a regular siamese there he has black eyes. I bought him as dark eyed siamese, but there is something wrong in his pedigree too. Cause his parents are supposed to be silveragouti tricolor buck paired to a seal point siamese doe. But then the whole litter would be burmese.. So is it possible that he is a silvered burmese splashed.. I found him very light for that, but that would also explain his offspring silvered burmese and siamese. All the baby's do have some sort of ticking tough even the siamese.. But that would be because of the agouti then.. But all of the baby's seem to have a ruby tone of colour in their eyes. I also have his satin brother, who is supposed te be also silvered burmese if my guessing is right.. 
Here are pictures of him too.. He does look dark eyed siamese to me :roll:


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

He looks like a black eyed Siamese (known as colourpoint beige outside of the UK) splashed to me. The silver agouti slashed could well have not been A/A cch/cch, there are other ways to make silver agouti lookalikes. If his father had one stone/beige gene 'ce' and the mother was a seal point Siamese, then black eyed Siamese/CPB is very likely.

What was the mother of this litter?

Sarah xxx


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

Well the litter where he is the dad from is from a sealpoint siamese satin doe, wich I know the line from for decades


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I see that now, Sarah. I was looking for a darker swathe, but wasn't thinking about the pink eye factor.


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## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

My first splashed litter came from a beige based tricolour and a siamese sealpoint so I could be sure the whole litter of eleven to be CPB splashed. The eyecolour varied from a dark ruby to black and the bodycolour from whitish to darkbeige. So being all CPB splashed, their looks differed so much so that personally I find it very hard to tell what a splashed mouse can have on its c-locus. Having silveragouti in its pedigree doesn't make it easier. A testbreeding with a black mouse to see if it throws agouti, might help.

I'm not sure what you consider silvered burmese but an agouti based CPB (A/* ce/ch) doesn't make one nor does it make it look like one.  imho


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## Soleya (May 24, 2011)

Silvered burmese is A* ch/cch

But then I have a problem with the splashed that are in the litter, 'cause they don't make it easier either. When they where younger they first looked burmese (a/a ch/cch) to me, but now they look more coffee or something..

@SarahY: I have a lot of cpb (as we indeed call it here).. But non of them look like the splashed buck. Or where you talking about his brother


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