# Outcome of a Siamese X Broken cross? (pics)



## itsasilverspoon (Oct 1, 2009)

Hello there, I'm thinking about breeding my siamese doe with my [does anyone know what his colour actually is??] broken male. He's a very shiny copper colour and looks rather satin in most lights. Unfortunately I don't know anything about his parents (his brothers were all black tan brokens). Any idea what the babies would look like? I read somewhere that if you cross a siamese with most things the babies will be black?

Pics of the two:
Mercutio:



























Ophelia:



























Thanks guys!


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

You shouldn't introduce spotting genes into any pointed mice.

Likewise, any agouti-based colors--he looks like he may be a poor cinnamon--are bad for pointed varieties. For that matter, so is chocolate (which is inherent in cinnamon)!


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## itsasilverspoon (Oct 1, 2009)

What's the reason for that? What does it do?


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## itsasilverspoon (Oct 1, 2009)

As in, what colours WOULD turn out. All of the offspring will be for pet purposes only and have homes lined up, so i'm not bothered by colour quality or anything. Would any be broken, or would we get black and agouti babies? Thanks for all of your help!


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Washed-out mice of different shades, or blacks (this depends on what the male is, genotypically, and what he carries).

Agouti and chocolate both create a weakening of the siamese/himalayan dilution which is not distinct enough to have its own name. Agouti-based siamese/himalayan mice are off-colored mice who have a tendency to be really mealy due to the effects of the ticking and the points put together. White spots may not even show up, since some pointed varieties are so light-bodied to begin with.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

It's not easy to tell from those pictures, but he looks like either a cinnamon with very little ticking or a patchy chocolate to me. I think I can see some tan on his belly in the 2nd picture, but the line between the tan and the brown is so fuzzy that he could even be a sable. I think though, if his brother were all black tans he's most likely to be chocolate tan. There's no way to know whether he has one or two tan genes, although he probably has only one because his tan is very pale. If he has only one tan gene you'll get some selfs in the litter.

The white spotting gene is recessive, so unless your siamese carries it (ie has a broken parent) you won't get any brokens. Your buck is satin, but again it's recessive so if your siamese doesn't carry satin you won't have any in the litter. If you wanted brokens and satins and you don't have a broken/satin doe, you could breed a daughter back to him.

So, if he's cinnamon tan you'd get agouti and black tans and probably selfs, if he's chocolate tan you'd get black tans and probably selfs, and on the off chance that he is sable you'll get reds and black tans.

Sarah xxx


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## itsasilverspoon (Oct 1, 2009)

So basically these wouldn't be very attractive mice? haha. Would I be better off crossing him with my black doe then, or a chocolate?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

In my honest opinion, I think you'd want prettier mice to sell as pets - these ones wouldn't even have nice tan 

It depends on what else the doe carries. Do you have any does with broken parents? Putting him to a black that doesn't carry broken will results in black tans and selfs as well, but if you put him to a chocolate you'll at least get chocolate tans and selfs.

ETA: assuming he's chocolate, if he's cinnamon you'll get agoutis from your black doe and cinnamons from your chocolate doe as well.

Sarah xxx


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Lovely siamese girlie you have there; the boy looks like a satin agouti to me, and I have quite a few of them. She deserves a better match than this boy, in my opinion. Crossing her with a blue self would be interesting.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

That would make black too if the blue doesn't carry siamese or the siamese doesn't carry blue 

Sarah xxx


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

SarahY said:


> In my honest opinion, I think you'd want prettier mice to sell as pets - these ones wouldn't even have nice tan


Haha! You say it so much nicer than me! I always sound like a meanie butt, no matter how I phrase it.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Ophelia looks to have a pale body on my monitor - she may be a himalayan rather than a siamese. Genetically this means she has one copy of the himalayan gene (two make a siamese) and one copy of albino. I also agree that you wouldn't get what most pet keepers consider 'pretty' mice from this pairing. If you want more like that doe you'd be better to use a siamese, himalayan or PEW buck. If you want brokens you need to mate that buck to a broken doe, not the one you have posted photos of. Do you have any other mice that are suitable to breed (and pics of them)?


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## itsasilverspoon (Oct 1, 2009)

My only other two does [I have one ancient girl too haha] are black doe and a chocolate one. Unfortunately I don't know anything about their parernts or what they carry. Here's pics of the two though.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi, itsasilverspoon,please could you post in the introductions section before posting elsewhere as this is a forum rule.Thanks.


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## itsasilverspoon (Oct 1, 2009)

Ah, absolutely. I thought I posted one quite awhile ago, but I guess it never went through. Sorry for that!


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