# is there a list of colors and their dilutes?



## bbarber65

I've got pages of notes from these websites:
http://www.geocities.ws/mystic_mice_nz/colours.html
http://www.thenationalmouseclub.co.uk/aovs.php
http://pandamice.weebly.com/ticked.html
http://www.fancymice.info/self-creams.html
and I've really, really learned a lot... but not what are the dominant colors and then their dilute versions...I will tell you what I think is going on:

Black ----> dilute blue
Chocolate ----> dilute champagne
Red ----> dilute fawn

is this right? also, where do the colors lilac, beige, cream, bone and dove go?


----------



## Fantasia Mousery

It's not completely right, but it's not completely wrong either. 
So there are two base colours: Agouti and non-agouti (Black) - technically there's also Red. Every other colour is a dilution* of one of those, but there are different genes that dilute in different ways.

pp (pink eyes) dilutes Black (aa) into Dove, dd makes it Blue, bb makes it Chocolate and so on.
pp dilutes Agouti (A_) into Argente, dd makes it Blue Agouti, bb makes it Cinnamon.
pp dilutes Red (Ay_) into Fawn (not going to go into the others for this one just now).

You can combine the above as well. So Champagne is a pink-eyed Chocolate (aa bb pp).
There's a near endless amount of combinations. A site I always recommend is http://www.hiiret.fi 
I hope it helped a little.

* Techincally it's not all dilutions, but we call it that because it's easier.


----------



## PPVallhunds

with genetics this is how I look at it.

The A set of genes are your base colours
Ay - Dominant Red (common in UK not common in USA)
Avy - Brindle (not the same one as in the uk, uk one is x-linked brindle)
Aw - White belly agouti (not ment to be common)
A - Agouti
at - Tan (the tan gene is dominant on the bottom half of the mouse and doesn't effect the top half of the mouse) - the colour depends on what other base gene the mouse has at/at = black tan, A/at = Agouti tan.
a - non agouti - will be black with no dilution gene.

Then the other genes are dilution genes and Marking Genes

Diluition genes are
B - Not Choc diluted B, or chocolate diluted b
C - Not c diluted C or c diluted this set has multiple different c genes which each effect colour differently resulting in many many different colours based on the base colours and the combo of c gene
D - Not blue diluted D, or blue diluted d
P - Not pink eye diluted P, or pink eye diluted p
E - not ressive yellow E, or ressive yellow e (common in USA not common in UK)

Each one of the above genes will dilute colours to new colours depending on the base colour and if there is more than one dilution in effect ( for example a mouse could be black based and be blue diluted, choc diluted, pink eye diluted all at once). The dilution genes are all ressive to there not diluted version of the gene so B is dominant to b, D to d ect

The marking genes are
ressive white spotting, rumpwhite, variegated, splashed, banded, x-linked brindle


----------



## PPVallhunds

I find when looking at a whole mouse its helps to work in albithical order for the colour/dilutions so A/B/C/D/E/P

ill past something that helped out another person but its done based on uk colours so ressive yellow and Avy brindle are not mentioned


----------



## PPVallhunds

*The B Group*
The B gene decided weather or not the mouse will be choc diluted, it will turn the black hair brown but has no effect on yellow hair.
B = Not choc diluted
b = Choc diluted
There are acutaualy two types of b genes which is b and bc, bc is dominant over b and gives a better shade of choc however apperantly b is not common. Both give the same colour but b is mant ot be more brown and bc more choc so ill just call them both the same as b here.
B is dominant over b so a mouse needs two b's be to choc diluted, if it only has 1 b it wont be diluted but will carry it. 
so breed a non choc diluted mouse B/B to a choc diluted mouse b/b you will get non choc diluted mice carrying choc B/b
Breed a carrier B/b to a choc b/b you get Choc b/b Non Choc but carrier B/b
Breed a carrier B/b to another carrier B/b you get choc b/b, Non choc B/B and non choc but carrier B/b.

So how does B dilution effect the A base colours?
Agouti = A/A b/b or A/a b/b = Cinnamon
Red = Ay/* b/b = Still red as the B gene doesn't effect yellow hair, however it can help the appearance of sootiness in reds.
Black = a/a b/b = Chocolate
Tan = A/at b/b = turns agouti tan to cinnamon tan, a/at b/b turns black tan to choc tan

*The D Group* (will do c below as its so big)
The D group decides if the mouse will be blue diluted or not and its effects both black and yellow hair.
D = Not blue diluted
d = Blue diluted
D is domant over d so a mouse must have two d's to be diluted, if it has only 1 d its wont be diluted but will carry it.
So if you breed a non blue diluted mouse D/D to a blue diluted mouse d/d you will get all non blue diluted mice who carry blue dilution D/d. Breed a carrier to a blue diluted you get Blue diluted d/d and more carriers D/d. Breed two carriers D/d together you get blue diluted d/d, carriers D/d and non blue diluted D/D

So how does blue dilution effect the A base colours?
Agouti A/A d/d or A/a d/d = Blue Agouti
Red ay/* d/d = Straw colour
Black a/a d/d = Blue
Tan = Agouti tan A/at d/d = blue tan, Black tan a/at d/d = blue tan.

So what effect does it have when added with b choc dilution?
Cinnamon A/A b/b d/d or A/a b/b d/d = Lilac Agouti
Choc a/a b/b d/d = Lilac
So with tans A/at b/b d/d = Lilac Agouti Tan and a/at b/b d/d = Lilac Tan

*The P Group*
The P group decides if the mouse will be pink eye diluted or not. This gene changes the eye colour from black to red however it does also have an effect on coat colour by diluting the hair as well.
P = not pink eye diluted
p = pink eye diluted
P is domant over p so as with choc and blue a mouse needs two copies to be diluted and 1 copy to carry it.

Effect on A base colours?
Agouti A/A p/p or A/a p/p = Argente
Red ay/* p/p = Fawn
Black a/a p/p = Dove
Tans = A/at p/p Argente Tan and a/at p/p Dove Tan
Effect with choc diluted?
Cinnamon A/A b/b p/p or A/a b/b p/p = Has no name, looks like Argente but the blue under coat is turned Champaign instead. 
Choc a/a b/b p/p = Champaign
Tans = A/at b/b p/p = No name looks like Argente Tan with no blue undercoat and a/at b/b p/p = Champaign Tan
Effects with blue dilution?
Blue Agouti A/A d/d p/p or A/a d/d p/p = No name, no idea on looks
Blue a/a d/d p/p = Silver
Tans = A/at d/d p/p = whos knows what Tan and a/at d/d p/p = Silver Tan
With both b and d?
Lilac Agouti A/A b/b d/d p/p or A/a b/b d/d p/p = No name, no idea on looks
Lilac a/a b/b d/d p/p = Pink eyed lilac makes a light shade of Champaign
Tans just stick tan after the name.

*The C Group*
The c group dilutes black, brow and red hair. C dilution is resissive to non c diluted so a mouse needs two c dilution genes to be c diluted. This is a big group, there are 7 different genes and rather than like the A group where the different genes are dominant and ressive to each other (so the ressive ones don't show an effect when carried) the c genes work together to make different colours with the exception of the domant C gene. Some of the colours produced by this group have red eyes however the eye colour is caused by the c gene not the pink eye gene as the c group and the p group are linked so its hard to get a c diluted that also has the pink eyed gene. 
The genes are
C = Not Diluted - Has no effect in the mouse and the most dominant one. So any mouse with one C gene will not be diluted.
cch = Chinchilla - Has a strom effect on red hair, has a less effect on black and little to no effect to brown hair.
ce = Extreme Dilution - This gene has a strong effect on red hair as well as black hair but has less of an effect on brown.
ch = Himalayan - This gene causes the colour to dilute more on the warmest parts of the mouse, so its left with points of colour on the nose, ears, feet and tail. This gene has a stronger effect on red hair then black so it will dilute a red mouse more.
c = Albino - covers up every colour, think of it like taking a mouse then dipping it in white paint. c/c is albino
(Also ci = Intense chinchilla and cm = chinchilla Mottle but they are not common)
So what do they do to the bace colours when in matching pairs? 
c/c = Covers all other colours to white, also know as pink eyed white.
ch/ch
Red = will look Pink eyed white like a fake albino
Agouti = Unstandardized Agouti Siamese - Darker body then a normal Siamese.
Black = Seal Point Siamese - On blue makes Blue point Siamese
Tans = Unstandardized Siamese Fox - Siamese with white belly
ce/ce 
Red = Black eyed white
Agouti = Dirty brown colour
Black = Baige
Tans = Unstandardized Fox - Depending to the top colour it can range from baige fox to coffie fox 
cch/cch 
Red = Cream Colour - This type of cream use to be shown however as it does not breed true and is not as light as current show creams so is not used anymore for showing.
Agouti = Silver Agouti
Black = Mock Black - the mouse can look like a normal shade of black or an off shade of black.
Black Tans = Fox - The tan belly is dulited to white or cream, a poor fox and a poor tan can look alike.
Agouti Tan = Chinchilla

So what happens when the c genes are mixed?
c/ch = Red = Fake PEW, Agouti and Black = Himalayan, Tans = Himi Fox.
c/cch = Red = Off white colour, Agouti = Like Silver Agouti but lacks the right colour undercoat, Black = light mock chocolate, Agouti Tan = Like chinchilla but lacks the right undercoat colour, Black Tan = Unstandardized Foxes in shades of sepia, mock choc and coffie. 
c/ce = Red = Black eyed white, Agouti = Like silver agouti but way off the right colour, Black = Cream (current show creams) Tans = Unstandardized Foxes. 
ch/cch = Red = Creamish White- to white, Agouti = like silver agouti but brownish and lacks right undercoat colour, Black = Burmese, Tans = Agouti tan = Like chinchilla but brownish and lacks the right undercoat colour, black tans = Burmese Fox.
ch/ce = Red = Black eyed white, Agouti = ? id imagin like a pale silver agouti of the wrong shade with darker points, Black = Black eyed Siamese (Aka colour point baige), Tans = Unstandardized Fox
cch/ce = Red = Creamish White, Agouti = Like silver agouti but lacks the right colour undercoat, Black = Mock Chocolate, Agouti Tan = Like chinchilla but lacks the right undercoat colour, Black Tan = Mock chocolate Foxes.


----------



## bbarber65

wow! you've been so helpful  I'm going to print that out and study it.

thank you so much!


----------



## pauly

Well done PPV, you made that clear & interesting, normally I find my mouse just wants to click !


----------



## SarahC

I was impressed to.


----------



## PPVallhunds

It's kinda an idiot's guide lol something in simple terms as that how my brain best works


----------



## MouseMaid

Hugely useful post, thank you. I think like Paul I print this out and go over it when I have more coffee to hand!


----------



## NexivRed

Finally something I'm starting to understand as I read it! Thank you so much.


----------

