# Tweed and Roth-their first litter



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I mated this doe, shown a few months ago in Mousies du Jour, to a pied chocolate buck with similar merle-ish markings. She delivered 11 really nice sized pinkies overnight. I am eager to see if this really is merle or whether I get a bunch of assorted tricolor/splashed. Pictures when there's something other than pink to show.

Here's a young doe I showed some time back as an 'oddity'.


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I am excited to see!!!


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

She's pretty, looks roan to me... does she have any solid black patches with no white fur?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

She has patches of nearly solid black, as you see on her face, neck, and a little near her rump.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh I see, I wasn't looking closely before. Definitely looking forward to seeing the babies when they have fur!


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## Bridgette Rena (Jan 28, 2011)

She looks merle/"roan-like" to me. Very pretty girl.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Yeah, and she comes from a litter that included tris, as did the sire. So if nothing else, it'll be interesting to see what they look like. I wander if the splashed gene can cause reversions of roan to solid patches or anything else that might be interesting?


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## Emfa Mouse (Dec 14, 2011)

She's gorgeous! I can't wait to see what the babies look like!


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

She looks merle to me. But merle is such a weird gene. I gave my friend 2 bew pied merles (one has a small colour spot) and the litter had one solid BLACK baby in it. :roll:


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Merle is still quite mysterious, isn't it? How long have merles been around, anyway? Where did they come from?


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I noticed last night that I have a doe who is almost all black, except for a few little bits mixed with white hairs; maybe I should breed her to one of the two bucks....could see a proper merle or marked merle from that, maybe? I'll wait to see how these litters work out, first.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a merle girl that has no solid patches, except for maybe a really tiny patch under a white spot on her head... and then I found a merle girl who is completely solid except for an eensy little patch on her belly, that is definitely merle, not spotted or something else. If only I could breed the two of them... :lol:


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Here are the babies: I think they were born a day or two too early, as they are just getting hints of pigment in the skin. I'm eager for them to fur up! As you can see, Tweed has set up a separate nest for a few of the babies. I'm going to keep an eye on them to be sure they are getting well enough fed. I suspect she's nursing each group separately, as have a number of other does of mine over the years. I'm giving Tweed a LOT more food than even some of the other breeding or nursing does. This afternoon she got kibble, bread and warm cream of rice made with formula. When I left she had finished the kibble and moved on to the cream of rice, which smelled so good that I went downstairs and made some for myself; it was chilly with a raw, damp wind, and the hot cereal really warmed my old bones. Yum!

Oh, I forgot to mention: Three of them have red eyes! Not really surprising since most of this generation that include the parents came from my desire to recover my fawn line, so they all carry red eyes.





I should have put up a pic of Roth, before. Here he is...watching me suspiciously.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Dads make the nest nannies... From the last pick, he almost looks like a pied brindle. For some reason the markings just seem to line up that way... I'm probably seeing things again! :nar


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I was wondering about that myself. When I purposely crossed brindle and tria couple of year ago, I had this same kind of roan-like mixing forming what looked like diluted brindling. As far as I know, the brindling isn't present in any of my remaining stock, as I haven't seen a single brindled mousies born since the accident. I'm going to see what happens when I make that cross anew. I have two pairings made of brindles and tris. I'[m still not sure if my yellow/red tris were from recessive yellow or undermarked brindles. I had both when I started on that project, and everything got mixed up after the accident. It's frustrating, but I'll get it all figured out eventually.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Not to make light of it, but I wonder if your current stock that survived the accident is more heat resistant? I know it has been very frustrating and heartbreaking, bit it is good to see that you're on the way to recovery.


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## GypsyTails (Jul 14, 2010)

Rhasputin said:


> She looks merle to me. But merle is such a weird gene. I gave my friend 2 bew pied merles (one has a small colour spot) and the litter had one solid BLACK baby in it. :roll:


I had a similar experience with my pet type Merle. Merle x Merle gave me Merle, Roan-like Merle and a perfectly solid Black baby!


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## Bridgette Rena (Jan 28, 2011)

GypsyTails said:


> Rhasputin said:
> 
> 
> > She looks merle to me. But merle is such a weird gene. I gave my friend 2 bew pied merles (one has a small colour spot) and the litter had one solid BLACK baby in it. :roll:
> ...


Would this be the other extreme of a "roan-like" merle? The mouse still genetically being merle but appearing solid?


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

I was wondering about that too. In horses sometimes we get parents that are homozygous for tobiano (dominant n horse, btw) all of a sudden turn out a solid foal, with minimal markings on feet and head. Since the genetic test proved the parents had it, it means the baby just had very overblown color markings.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

They are getting their fur in; I'd have taken pix last night but my camera batteries needed recharging. there is an amazing variety of colors and markings. There is at least one tricolor, probably chocolate tricolor, several fawn who I can't tell if they're pied or tri because the lighter colors aren't easy to see this early. Black pied....I can't say what all. I'm very excited about this litter for some reason...and I feel a little vindicated that there's at least one tricolor. That only shows that they at least carry the splashed gene, and makes it seem right to still think that the parents are not merle, but some variety of splashed...thought splashed is supposed to have a tinted background...but, hey, my theory of tricolors admits some other stuff going on with the colors and markings. This is what I call breeding in it's essence, trying to discover what's going on.

I am hoping that the fawn turn out to be brindled; I have a feeling about this. I think the parents markings are two kinds of weirdly diluted splashed brindling tricolor something or other....


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

This litter is such a mixed bag; I'm enthralled! I see all sorts of interesting things in this litter. I'm not going to make any pronouncements about this litter until they are considerably bigger.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow, lovely bunch! I like how that yellow-red one on top almost has a dutch head!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Dutch markings are pretty common in my mousery; never know where they are going to show up. They're really pretty common; it's only getting them to show standard, which I'm not trying for, that is difficult. They pop up in most pied litters with regularity, and even when someone pairs two that look good, They get all kind of other pied markings on most of them.

I can hardly wait for the fawn babie to get big enough for me to see if they are merle or tri or splashed or what!!


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## Emfa Mouse (Dec 14, 2011)

congratulations! What good-looking babies!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks!


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## Bridgette Rena (Jan 28, 2011)

Ooo, do I see some roan-like bubs in there? Cute pile of beebies.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

There are what look like roan and/or merle in this litter...I can't wait to see how the fawns develop! There are tricolors in this litter as well, and one the the fawns could be my first new yellow/red tri since the accident. I'm not holding my breath, though. It took almost a year, with three full generations before I saw my first yellow tris back then. I'll proceed with the pairings I've set up to restore that line, regardless of what I get in this litter.


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## Autumn2005 (Apr 21, 2010)

It's always encouraging to hear that a breeder has such a firm plan in mind, and is going on with it! It helps me realize that I need to set definite goals, not just put a couple meecies together and see what random colors pop up!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Well, that's how I started, so I won't look down my nose at you! I was so clueless it's funny to think of it now! 

Some things I figured out on my own, but I really didn't get going as a true breeder until about a year in or so. without knowing anything about mousie genetics, I thought i could bred a champagne by mixing an albino with a beige mousie. *doh* Then I discovered forums, and got a clue or three.

At this point, I've gotten used to planning for the long term, as I am a lifelong mousie addict, plainly. :lol:


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

These little cuties have started opening their eyes. There's at least one tricolor, and it looks like I have one or two yellow splashed. These babies vary a lot in size and build, and are generally quite small, but then, their mum is not a big mousie.


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## Emfa Mouse (Dec 14, 2011)

Is the chocolate one a satin? 
Such variety in the babies! It's incredible!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes, there is a satin chocolate. Even I am surprised at the wide array of colors in this litter. I'm going to try to Punnett this litter and see if I can figure out what the parents are.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Almost three weeks old now, and soon to be joined by little brothers and sisters.


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

very pretty litter


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

thankew!


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## Whurmy (Mar 10, 2012)

Oh goodness, I want those chocolates so badly. :O And forgive me if there's really only one chocolate and the second is fooling me. :') Very new to mice and cannot distinguish colors just yet. ^^;


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

One of the ones that look chocolate will have to wait to get bigger before they are identified. It's either chocolate, chocolate 'roan' or agouti roan. Whichever color, it looks like it has white hairs mixed into the color, and the little darling is just too small to be sure right now. It'll mean dong the punnet charts all over again if that one is agouti...and I don't think it is, as the dam is black and the sire blue, I'm pretty sure.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

They are about four weeks old.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

I love how no two look the same - very happy I chose a broken doe now. Gorgeous babies!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks; this litter was bred out of sheer curiousity. I'm not surprised or displeased that I got a wide variety of colors and markings.


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## Shadowrunner (Sep 26, 2011)

The baby faces on them are adorable too.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks, guys!


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