# End of breeding age?



## athiena14

I'm hoping this goes here. I have an older female that I had actually gotten from a different breeder because she was said to be close to not being able to have babies anymore. When I got her she was actually very pregnant and since then has had 2 more litters. This past time when I put her with a buck, she attacked and wouldn't let him near her at all. I took her away and put her back with the rest of the does and no longer able to help nurse the babies. Does this mean she is to old to have babies now? I'm not exactly sure how old she actually is.


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## NikiP

How long have you personally had her? That would help establish a rough idea of how old she cold be  8mo seems to be the cut off point for both pet, show, & feeder breeders.

Did she go for his genitals or just squeaking a lot?

Don't know how long you've been doing it, but what I did when I set up for feeder breeding was keep all the does from my unknown age doe that I got while pregnant. That way I have a baseline, my tubs are numbered & I keep info in a spreadsheet that corresponds with stuff like when they were born so i'll know when to stop using them. Same doe is being retired after this litter is weaned


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## ThatCertainGlow

Probably quite likely. Many say two litters out of a doe before retirement, max four. If you acquired her as an 'older' mouse, not a young 10-12 week one, chances are she's well past done with all that. As does age through their first year of life they don't go into heat as often, if at all, past a varying age (specific to that mouse). Could be anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half, or more. It also becomes harder on her to go through the pregnancy and nursing. Plus there is a greater chance for delivery complications. (Picture an older person having babies.) If she's not in heat, that explains her clear refusal.

*edit* NikiP beat me to it.


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## athiena14

I've had her for about 3 months. It was mostly just noise, the male didn't come back bloody or anything so I don't think she bit him or anything. Its been 3 weeks since I tried to get her to breed again, and haven't tried to get her back with the male. Most of my females are young, and I got them at 3-4 months old. She was the first that I had gotten without knowing how old or even an old breeder.


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## thammy24

It definitely sounds like she's too old to breed. If she still gave you 3 litters after the breeder already said she was close to being done, then she done very well for you at an older age. She might already had 1-2 with the previous breeder. Sounds like she's ready for retirement


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## NikiP

I agree  Hope you held back a few does from her! Maybe she'll pass on her good production skills


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## athiena14

lol I kept one. they're together right now in their own cage. I've gotta get another buck to breed with the little one when she gets older. Don't want to breed her with her dad XD


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## candycorn

Nothing wrong with breeding back to dad..Most breeders inbreed. What concerns me more is that you let the doe have 3 litters in less than 3 months. After the breeder told you she was ready to retire. That is not healthy for the mouse nor does it make big strong babies.


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## athiena14

I wasn't expecting her to have more babies really. I had put the male in to breed a different female that was in the same cage that she was helping nurse and didn't learn the first time I was newer at the time to breeding mice. She was pregnant when I got her so she only got bred with me twice. She is now in a cage by with her and her 2 month old daughter


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## Seafolly

Most of my does demand space in the first 24 hours after being put in with the buck. But I'd agree to keep her away from bucks just because she's already had three litters (that you know of) and was declared too old to begin with. Best err on the side of caution for her sake.


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## athiena14

Mine have all been good with each other, even after being with a buck. I just wanted to know though about this, like I said she's with no bucks and wont be again.


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## NikiP

You've probably figured this out by now, but when the does go past their prime it isn't that they physically can't get pregnant, it's just the risk that have been mentioned  They can get pregnant right after giving birth, & it seems there are cases of them even becoming pregnant again when the male is removed just a few days before. Nursing doesn't prevent it


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## athiena14

yea I learned my mistakes with her... I thought I was keeping a close eye on here when the male was in there, I had read that they could get pregnant within 24 hours, but it had been a few days since she had her babies.


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## Frizzle

athiena14 said:


> yea I learned my mistakes with her... I thought I was keeping a close eye on here when the male was in there, I had read that they could get pregnant within 24 hours, but it had been a few days since she had her babies.


So I'm unsure if I'm interpreting this right, but I've come across others who seem to think that once the 24 hr window has passed, that the doe won't get pregnant until the litter is weaned, which is incorrect. After that first 24 hours, heat cycles continue as normal, the female coming into heat every 3-5 days.

As it only takes a few seconds of mounting for insemination to occur, as well as you can't watch mice every waking moment, the only 100% positive way to keep pregnancies from occurring is by removing the male.


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## athiena14

Ok, I had heard wrong from someone else then, thank you for the information.


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## Laigaie

Does who've been bred in the late stages of pregnancy can become pregnant again upon giving birth even though the buck's no longer present. Human sperm survives in the uterine environment, waiting for an egg to drop, for up to six days. I can't seem to find any data on murine sperm survival rates in utero, but rodents are notoriously good breeders, so I doubt it's any less. Separating her as soon as she's showing is safest.


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## athiena14

didn't know they could be bred while pregnant..


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