# New Mother Crisis



## thewesterngate (May 22, 2012)

Hi all. I hesitate to post about this, because I've seen so much backlash in other forums when a member talks about one of their animals in ill health. I've noticed this place is much more forgiving and generally nicer, so..I'd like to share my thoughts.

First off, I breed mostly for my reptiles. I know the image that can give, but I genuinely care about my mice. I use a rack system in a walk-in closet and check on everyone quite a few times a day--the closet helps me keep my cats far away from the mice, and hopefully makes them feel calm and happy. I currently have 8 males (5 are a litter just growing out together) and 8 females.

Last night I cleaned one of the bins with two young PEW females and their agouti buck. None looked super pregnant or ready to pop or anything, and then this afternoon (first check) one gave birth to 6 pups. I was surprised but very happy to see they're starting to produce for me. I left them alone after a headcount, but noticed they were kind of small compared to the other litter I've had. I went out and ran errands, then came back a few hours later to find two things: the pied brindle doe in the bin below that one also had 6 babies. Wow! What a good day for mice! That's when I checked the top bin and realized something was wrong. The babies were still alone in the nest with no milk bands and a little chilly, and the one I assumed was the mother was hunched and panting elsewhere.

I looked between the groups and noted that the first litter was smaller and probably premature, and after a bit of nail-biting and SERIOUS consideration, I moved the first six pups into the second bin to be fostered by those two girls. They raised a litter together before and both are very sweet and motherly, and have already gotten milk into the premature babies. I hated intervening like that though.

The PEW mother is looking bad..so I feel it was right to remove her babies. She's ruffled, panting, and chilly to the touch. I know she may not make it, but I just need to talk it out I guess? I lightly palpated her stomach and didn't feel any stuck babies, but there are a few more 'blood spots' in the bedding than I'm used to seeing. What do you think went wrong? And would it be right to put her out of her misery?  Also, these girls came pre-impregnated from a group I bought to fill out my racks--I noticed they were on the small side. I'm sure that affected her experience..


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

She may have been too young, too small, or just poorly bred. As you develop your feeder stud, these are the kinds of mice whose descendants will not be bred.


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## thewesterngate (May 22, 2012)

Laigaie said:


> She may have been too young, too small, or just poorly bred. As you develop your feeder stud, these are the kinds of mice whose descendants will not be bred.


I'm sure that's the case, I even made mention of how small they were compared to the girls I've had in the past. I bought them as 'adult mice', and unfortunately only had the one source nearby. I just hope the pups pull through.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Culling is probably the right thing to do; I hate it when I lose a doe due to birthing problems.

How are the babies doing? Did the other doe accept them? I try to do a couple three litters at once in order to have options for fostering.


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## thewesterngate (May 22, 2012)

moustress said:


> Culling is probably the right thing to do; I hate it when I lose a doe due to birthing problems.
> 
> How are the babies doing? Did the other doe accept them? I try to do a couple three litters at once in order to have options for fostering.


I peeked in a little while later and Ez the pied brindle and her PEW lady friend are both in the nest with all 12.  Her litter has black eyes, and the premature litter has pink, so it's easy to tell them apart. The PEW litter is forming milk bands! I'm afraid if I check on them too much, they'll stress..although I just want to watch them like a hawk. :roll:


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## MojoMouse (Apr 20, 2012)

The PEW mum sounds like she's in a lot of physical distress.  More than likely it's from birthing or afterbirthing problems. If you're experienced with humane culling, as you seem to be, perhaps this is the best thing. If she's still got a baby or two in her, they may be reabsorbed, but more likely she'll die from scepticemia, and it's a painful way to go.


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