# Chinchilla from fox?



## Kec5105 (Jun 25, 2015)

How do I test breed my splash texel fox doe to see if she carries chinchilla? I bred her to a black tan and got 4 pups, all black tans. If I take a black tan son and breed back to mom will I find out more about moms genotype? Does this mean my black tan dad is homozygous? I'm slowly learning more about genetics lol
Thanks!


----------



## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, first of all, she is something more than Splashed Fox Texel. She has a colour as well. Splashed is just a marking, but you know for sure she is c-diluted, because they're the only ones that can show Splashed. That also means she can't "carry" the Chinchilla-gene (c^ch), it will be showing in one way or other. Carrying a gene means it is hidden. 
You want to breed her to another c-diluted, preferably a "clean" one. My suggestion would be Siamese (c^h/c^h). That will help you find out what she is.


----------



## Kec5105 (Jun 25, 2015)

This is a younger picture of her, it's a blurry picture but it shows her color pretty well. I don't have a Siamese male, I do have a pew, a dove and a brindle male to choose from. Would Any of those work? What should I expect the babies to look like?


----------



## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

No, none of the mentioned would work, and honestly... that picture is useless. Sorry. Need a sharp picture taken in natural daylight.
PEW might work if you're 100% sure it's a real PEW (c/c) and not a "fake" one (c_/c_ pp).


----------



## Kec5105 (Jun 25, 2015)

I'll try to get better pictures today. 
I have no idea what my PEW is hiding either. He was bred recently to an angora splash with similar color to the texel girl but less color. I'll snap a picture of her too. The babies all can out looking like mom or with red splashes. No PEWs in a litter of 7.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kec5105 (Jun 25, 2015)

Ok here is the texel lady. She lost a lot of her curl of course 























This is the angora. 






























And the angoras X PEW baby, he has a very slight red splash right on his rump. 
















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

Much better.  So my guess is that your Texel lady is Siamese Splashed Fox Texel. That means that no, she does not have the Chinchilla-gene.
The two others are a bit more tricky, but the Angora looks to be Tricolour, not just Splashed. Tricolour is when a mouse is both Piebald and Splashed. I'm not sure about her colour, that's always even more difficult with Tricolour. But that does mean her baby boy could be Piebald (just very overmarked), providing the PEW carries that.


----------



## Kec5105 (Jun 25, 2015)

Cool! So how do I get a Siamese mouse out of her? And how do I get more red out of the angora? I just read "introduction to mouse genetics" by Elise Oppenheimer and it helped a lot but is there a resource that helps you pick who to breed to whom to get specific babies? I would love to have a dark pointed light bodied Siamese 

Also, here is her only Rex Baby just for cuteness!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fantasia Mousery (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, since Siamese is c^h/c^h, you can breed her to anything that has a c^h-gene (that's the Himalaya-gene, also the gene that gives the points), and get Siamese. Siamese, Himalaya or Burmese might be the easiest to get your hands on.
I don't know if this is what you mean, but to get a really good Siamese with very dark points and the proper body colour takes A LOT of intense breeding, and requires you to only breed Siamese on Siamese all the time, apart from sometimes putting Black in there to darken the points. Though not too often, because you don't want to ruin the body colour.

I would recommend www.hiiret.fi - it's a very detailed, and fairly easy to understand site about breeding and genetics.


----------



## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Kec, are you in the US? I noticed the white undercoat in your siamese texel girl, which some US breeders are calling smoke. I'd be awful intrigued to see that popping up elsewhere.


----------



## Kec5105 (Jun 25, 2015)

Yes I am in Pennsylvania. The breeder called her smoke but I could never find any information about it?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Hoo boy! I'm working on getting smoke standardized with FMBA (just started the process, should take about a year, maybe two). From what we can tell, most smokes are also pointed, but there are at least a few examples in the US of non-pointed smokes, either c-diluted without points or straight up agouti mice with white undercoats. There have been arguments that it's its own gene but visible under the right circumstances like Splashed is, or that it's on the A B or C loci. Suggestions that it could be A-based siamese were debunked, as was a suggestion that it's merle siamese. We know who popularized the variety in the US, but not where it came from originally. Smoke definitely needs more dedicated breeders who are willing to do the testing to figure it out, along with show folks who are willing to do the selection to improve it. It's a team effort!


----------



## Kec5105 (Jun 25, 2015)

Cool! That's awesome that's you are standardizing it  how do I get more?? I have her and her sister but none of their babies were smoke, they were both bred to a black tan. Should I breed a baby back to them? Or do I need to start with a different color?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

So sorry it took me a bit to get back to you! Smoke will come out of breeding to c-diluted varieties. C-varieties like black tan thus far haven't been seen to exhibit the characteristic. Since you've got a litter of carriers, breeding one back to the smokes should get you half smokes (and you'll be able to cull for smoke by pulling the darkest-pigmented pups on day 3). It may well be easier for you to get a buck from your breeder (or another that's in your area). If you're looking to find more Americans in PN, and with a quicker response rate than whenever I remember to check the forum, check out the Fancy Mouse Breeders Association group on Facebook. There are four or five of us smoke breeders on there. If you do want to try to breed to standard, you'll want to get rid of splashed, which is a dominant gene. Picking the mice that have even color across and higher contrast with the undercoat is your goal.


----------

