# New Show - WORLD WIDE. Marked Varieties Only.



## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

1.Mice will be exhibited as a photograph, on a piece of plain white paper. And a date shall be clearly marked on the piece of paper. 
2.Four Photgraphs will be taken of each mouse, One Under, one dorsal, and one left and one right side.
3. A Judge will be appointed from the United Kingdom,and the United States.
4. Appointed judges will be judges in their own organisations,and be conversant with foreign standards. 
5. Should judges be unable to agree, a reserve judge shall be appointed. His/Her decision shall be final. 
6. An exhibitor may only exhibit the same mouse a maximum of three times ever.
7.Classes will be u/8, adult. 
8. Schedule. --------(under research).

Further details to Follow. COMMENTS PLEASE.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Amazing idea!

Great way to bring the mouse comunity together. Why only marked varieties?
Also, people's photography skills may play a part in whether or not they do well in this. So not sure how you'll work that out.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

It wll come down to honesty that one. Please keep comments coming as there is a lot I have thought about but there will lots that I havent.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Taking a pic of the under may be difficult.

And personally I think this sucks, because I don't have a marked variety yet, as noone has brokens ready til next year and I think I should steal some of yours Gary! Not fair, I want to play!


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

I think this is gonna grow and grow, Possibly everything may be smoothed out by the time you get your brokens ! yes unders will be tricky, but can be done


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm interested, why only marked mice?


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Easier to judge through photo's I imagine, as markings are the most important part of a marked mouse, not really colour.

Selfs would be hard to judge through photo's as colour can be different on every screen and through every camera.

W xx


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

I think I can see why. It'd be impossible to tell how good a self is from a photograph and the lighing, flash etc would effect the colour. Satins would be even worse! Markings _have _to be a certain, exact way, which would come over in a photograph much more easily, and an excellently marked mouse with poorer type would probably win over selfs at an actual show anyway.

I think it's a great idea Gary. The Yorkshire Rat Club ran a photo competition a while ago when the rat fancy was suffering from a nasty virus circulating shows. Shows were cancelled for a while until it died down, so in the mean time the YRC got their members to send photos to be judged. It was very popular.

I just hope that one dishonest person with Photoshop doesn't ruin it for everyone else.

Sarah xxx


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I would always be willing to be a 'spot checker' for fiddled with photo's... as a regular user of photoshop, I can usually spot something that has been maniped, and i'm good at trawling through Google to make sure an image hasn't been stolen!

W xx


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Yeah, me too! My work colleague and I used to spend hours trawling through photographs of paranormal phenomena to rule out ones that had been faked! God, that makes me sound so sad... :lol: :lol:

ETA: Although I shall probably enter, in which case I can't do any checking.

Sarah xxx


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Which standards will we use? There are different standards in different countries and clubs. I think an online competition of marked mice is an excellent idea! I've participated before in virtual shows and they do have their own challenges but they can be fun. 

In the US, we do not have some of your standardized marked varieties, like rumpwhite. In the UK, you do not have some of our standardized marked varieties, like tricolor or broken brindle. I wonder how that would be resolved.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

Hmm... good point Sarah, photo checkers would have to be rotated then.

And I will happily volunteer my arty farty skills to draw some 'virtual' ribbons and place cards! hehee


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

Isn't a white background a poor choice considering the mice will have white markings?

Also, how do you suggest getting a good photo of the underside?

The East Coast Mouse Association has had quite a few virtual shows in the past. We allowed all types of mice and changed our scoring to reflect the fact that you cannot judge color via the computer.The judging was based mostly on type.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

differing standards across the world can be addressed by the judges making themselves famliliar with the relevant standard, in my eyes no different to judging a show with breeds entered that you do not keep. Please keep the comments coming,lots of brains on it will help to iron out problems before they arise. I think Also need to approach DOM for technical concerns. My early thoughts on photgraphing the underside will be to delegate that problem to jack. I would hold base of tail, allow mouse to grip tip of pencil, and click. can you have a play jack?


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

All good and fun. I think we should all try and remember its fun dont you?. If we are already talking about people cheating and entering false pics etc it wont be fun for long. Also try and keep it as simple as possible for the same reasons.


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## CatWoman (Jun 19, 2010)

Photographing the underside can be accomplished by putting the mouse on a piece of glass. If you use aquariums for housing, you could put the mouse in an empty one and take the photo from underneath. Or, just about everyone has a photo hanging in their house that can be removed from the frame to "borrow" the glass.


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## The secret garden (May 13, 2010)

I think this is a great idea!
Well thought out Gary


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

me to,something new.


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

WNTMousery said:


> Isn't a white background a poor choice considering the mice will have white markings?
> 
> Also, how do you suggest getting a good photo of the underside?
> 
> The East Coast Mouse Association has had quite a few virtual shows in the past. We allowed all types of mice and changed our scoring to reflect the fact that you cannot judge color via the computer.The judging was based mostly on type.


Did you miss my reply? 

With my 2nd question, I wasn't very clear. I meant how do you suggest getting a good photo of the underside *on a white background*?


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> how do you suggest getting a good photo of the underside on a white background?


That's easy, I've done it many times! Stick a piece of white paper on the wall and hold the mouse by its tail in front of it. It takes a few goes to get a good picture, but it's easy enough 

Sarah xxx


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

WNTMousery said:


> Isn't a white background a poor choice considering the mice will have white markings?
> 
> Also, how do you suggest getting a good photo of the underside?
> 
> The East Coast Mouse Association has had quite a few virtual shows in the past. We allowed all types of mice and changed our scoring to reflect the fact that you cannot judge color via the computer.The judging was based mostly on type.


Hi- No I didnt miss it, sorry I didnt reply in order, busy on the comp writing electrical installation certificates. The only other alternative is black, because there is no other background that is a standard colour all over the world. Hope this makes sense, and in any case you would be perhaps surprised how white marked mice actually are when compared to white paper.


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

I'll be back. said:


> 1.Mice will be exhibited as a photograph, on a piece of plain white paper. And a date shall be clearly marked on the piece of paper.
> 2.Four Photgraphs will be taken of each mouse, One Under, one dorsal, and one left and one right side.
> 3. A Judge will be appointed from the United Kingdom,and the United States.
> 4. Appointed judges will be judges in their own organisations,and be conversant with foreign standards.
> ...


Good idea and good rules. Can we start doing photos?

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh dear the bar has been set people. We know what we are up against from this guy!.


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

Was it ever stated which standards would be used? Tricolor, for example, is not standardized outside the US and other varieties such as Rumpwhite are not standardized inside the US. How will that work?


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## bels10 (Sep 28, 2010)

When is judging? Can you wait for my babies to grow up? lol


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> Tricolor, for example, is not standardized outside the US


Actually Tricolour _is_ standardised outside the US. Taken from the NMC standards: "A Tricolour mouse is to have three contrasting patches of colour on the back and sides. Patches of colour on the undersides and belly of the mouse to be adjudged an added attraction. Brindling of the patches to be judged a fault."



> other varieties such as Rumpwhite are not standardized inside the US. How will that work?


If you don't have a variety, you can't enter it in the show. It's pretty simple. I don't have rumpwhites either, but I'm not grumbling that I don't have them so can't enter them.

WNT Mousery, I'm really getting the feeling from your posts that you are trying to be difficult, maybe even that this idea has offended you in some way. Do you have any suggestions to make that would actually be helpful? This is obviously just in the very first idea stage and I'm sure judges from across the world who want to be involved will sort the standards etc out. At this stage there's no need for this ridiculous nitpicking.

As Seawatch rightly said, this is supposed to be fun.

Sarah.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I didn't see Jenny as nitpicking. She's one of two judges (the other being Kristin Blackwelder, who is no longer in the fancy) in the entire world who has judged virtual shows.

You're right that it should be fun, but it also has to be consistent.

Let's all get along!


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

Nitpicking? Why would this offend me? I hope it is some sort of cultural barrier, although I don't believe it is, as your accusations are quite rude and unfounded. Do you have a personal issue with me? Feel free to message me if you'd like to discuss anything in a more appropriate manner.

I asked a valid question about which standards would be used and how that would work because that was not addressed. The Tricolor and Rumpwhite were just examples (Tricolor being a poor example, nonetheless).

I've run numerous virtual shows in the past so I'm well aware of what works and what doesn't. It probably would have been wise to set out the rules and guidelines, as well as dates, judges, etc. all before announcing to the public. Of course their will be questions when the details aren't spelled out. The ECMA was the first club in the world to offer a virtual mouse show and I created the entire system by trial and error so I was hoping to offer assistance, after some questions were answered.

Maybe I missed something, but how can asking which standards would be used possibly be considered nitpicking?


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## Seawatch Stud (Feb 8, 2009)

Regarding a "cultural barrier" it seems the Americans are taking this far more seriously than the British. I dont like to generalize but thats how it appears. This started out as a bit of fun, not a serious attempt to put on a virtual show. I think it should continue in the spirit in which it began, and not get bogged down in petty beaurocracy. I for one will soon lose interest in this idea if it produces nothing more than an endless debate about (pointless) rules and regulations. The more relaxed and informal this idea stays the better for everyone. If you wish to take part on this basis great, if not dont its that simple.


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

WNTMousery said:


> Nitpicking? Why would this offend me? I hope it is some sort of cultural barrier, although I don't believe it is, as your accusations are quite rude and unfounded. Do you have a personal issue with me? Feel free to message me if you'd like to discuss anything in a more appropriate manner.
> 
> I asked a valid question about which standards would be used and how that would work because that was not addressed. The Tricolor and Rumpwhite were just examples (Tricolor being a poor example, nonetheless).
> 
> ...


It quite clearly states in my posts that I was asking for comments on my initial ideas. There is no way that I would not consult with everyone before finalising the details, so I respectfully disagree with you, it would not of been wise at all to just to do it without consultation. Failing to plan is planning to fail. A prime example is your post it self- without a consultation process I would not of had the benefit of the experience in your post. I take your comments as extremly constructive. i will be speaking to dom on some technical issues that I need to resolve, (lack of knowledge on my part) and whilst doing that will obtain world wide standards and go from there. Should be up and running soon.


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

WNTMousery said:


> Maybe I missed something, but how can asking which standards would be used possibly be considered nitpicking?


WNT, you say you have run many virtual shows, why don't you put forward your ideas of how best to run a virtual show; surely with your level of experience you have loads to offer this thread. Instead you choose to just question, share your wisdom please.

'I'll be back' has asked at least twice in this thread for ideas to be put forward. My understanding is this is an intial 'brain storming' session with a view to developing a virtual contest (correct me someone if that assumption is wrong).

I don't think you have to worry about us English coming up with fair rules, we have been doing this mousey thing a while you know.

now everyone play nice!


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

Shiprat said:


> WNT, you say you have run many virtual shows, why don't you put forward your ideas of how best to run a virtual show; surely with your level of experience you have loads to offer this thread. Instead you choose to just question, share your wisdom please.


That was indeed the plan. I was hoping to get an idea of how a few key components would work, first, before offering suggestions. 

As you'll notice, I did offer the advice about adjusting scores to reflect differences in colors via the computer. 

I have my papers that are used with each ECMA virtual show that I can email to anyone who is interested. They include start dates, times, rules, etc.

I'm not sure if the size of the mouse is an important factor for this show, however, a ruler in the photos would help with judging the size of the mouse. In the US we have such varying type and size, we wanted something in the photos that would help us gauge the size of the mouse. We chose to use a US Dollar, but obviously that would not work for an international show, hence the ruler idea.


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

WNTMousery said:


> In the US we have such varying type and size, we wanted something in the photos that would help us gauge the size of the mouse. We chose to use a US Dollar, but obviously that would not work for an international show, hence the ruler idea.


Why not? You get a dollar everywhere on this planet, even in Germany :mrgreen: , and we would have something with a well defined colour, not interferring with the colour of the mouse, since there are not many green mice.


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