# cinnamons



## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Here are some cinnamons (sisters to Amy's cinnamon, half-sisters to Jessie's cinnamons) that I've bred. In some parts of continental Europe they're called Golden Agouti, because they're derived from red and are used to "redden up" varieties like tan, argente, and recessive yellow. Some are preparing to go to different people at this upcoming Rodent Fest for that purpose.

Since red is by necessity heterozygous, whenever I cross Rex x Red, I get some cinnamons. So far, I've gotten more cinnamons than reds every single time! Figures! 

They have only moderate type, but they're so _cuuuute_!  They're also really warm (in color, but also in temperature I guess..haha). Some are satin. I haven't yet decided if I want to actively breed against satin, or just ignore it. I know I don't want to breed _for_ it.


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## HemlockStud (Apr 26, 2009)

Jack Garcia said:


> Here are some cinnamons (sisters to Amy's cinnamon, half-sisters to Jessie's cinnamons) that I've bred. *In some parts of continental Europe they're called Golden Agouti*, because they're derived from red and are used to "redden up" varieties like tan, argente, and recessive yellow. Some are preparing to go to different people at this upcoming Rodent Fest for that purpose.


 Actually cinnamon are not referred to as Golden Agouti, when people say "Golden Agouti" they mean agouti's that have been bred for show. These agouti's appear richer colored than normal agoutis that haven't been selected for color.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

You're speaking from the US (where I live, too) and you're right about the US, but notice that I said in continental Europe. The breeders of my original stock call these mice "golden agouti," as they are not regular agouti, and they're not cinnamons bred for their own sake, but are rather the "byproducts" of Reds. That's the distinction they make. I personally wouldn't make that distinction on my own, but they do and they are members here which is why I mention it.

What you're talking about in the US and UK is usually called simply "agouti" (in the standards and otherwise), and you're right that the shade and ticking varies quite a bit from petstore animals and exhibition animals.

It's another one of those little terminology quirks (like "dove/lilac" and "Ivory/PEW satin") that varies in different parts of the world or even different parts of the same country. In fact, I've only ever heard of "golden agouti" being used this way in Switzerland, the Netherlands, and Germany, so it could very well be a language-related issue. That's why gene codes are important: these mice are always A/A b/b, which in most instances are called "cinnamon." Wouldn't it be nice if we had a world-wide commonly accepted terminology for every variety?


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Whatever they are, they are soooooo cute and you simply must put them on a plane to me!! :lol:


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## The Village Mousery (Aug 1, 2010)

i agree with mousemad, while your there throw some brindles our way too.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

golden agouti would be a normal agouti in the U.K,not sure about the rest of Europe.


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## mousemad (Jun 7, 2010)

Yay, let start a mouse train from the USA!!!!!!
Or should that be a mouse plane....hehe :lol: :lol:


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## tom95 (Apr 1, 2010)

SarahC said:


> golden agouti would be a normal agouti in the U.K,not sure about the rest of Europe.


The same is in Poland and I think in the Netherlands and Germany too.

Beautiful cinnamons  , I had a few cinnamons in my red line, but they appear rarer then golden agoutis.
Unfortunately after a few problems when I lost a few reds, now I have only 3 does and 1 buck, all these females have had litters one time, they are together for one mounth and I don't think they are in pregnant .
I haven't other red buck, the only mouse with Ay gene I have now is chocolate sable buck from champagne x red parents.
Do you think I can get good reds (as good as from red x red) from these crosses - red x chocolate sable ?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

I would imagine that there are probably much better cinnamons already in the UK.


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

Jack, maybe you can point the other foreign breeder to this thread so he can see that he is calling these golden agouti in error?


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## tom95 (Apr 1, 2010)

Jack could you answer my question in my post above, please  ?


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

WNTMousery said:


> Jack, maybe you can point the other foreign breeder to this thread so he can see that he is calling these golden agouti in error?


It's not just him (I know who you're talking about...hehe). it's also the breeder in the Netherlands and one in Switzerland. I will tell you who if you want to know.

I do wonder if the term "golden hamster" (for a wildtype Syrian) hasn't rubbed off in translation somehow. I think it's much easier just to say "cinnamon."


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

tom95 said:


> I haven't other red buck, the only mouse with Ay gene I have now is chocolate sable buck from champagne x red parents.
> Do you think I can get good reds (as good as from red x red) from these crosses - red x chocolate sable ?


Well, maybe. But beware that the sables are umbrous and it's really hard to get rid of once introduced into reds. For whatever reason it seems to want to stay! I have mice who are six, seven, eight generations removed from an umbrous mouse, each bred to a mouse who's never seen umbrous, and the babies still have stripes!


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

Looking good!
I need a few for my recessive yellow line


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## zany_toon (Apr 3, 2010)

They look lovely - especially in the last photo


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Jack, how dooo you manage to breed the most gorgeus Mice that just tug at my heart strings and sceam YOU MUST TAKE ME HOME!!! in my ear! :lol: 
They are simply adorable and the face of the mousie in the top pic for me captures everything that is "Mouse" to me :love 
(Just in case you hadn't guessed I kinda like them-Congrats!)


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

Great camera shots by the way...I love the kissy face one at the bottom.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

The Boggit keeper said:


> Jack, how dooo you manage to breed the most gorgeus Mice that just tug at my heart strings and sceam YOU MUST TAKE ME HOME!!! in my ear! :lol:


Honestly, I think most of the work is in the photography. 

Also, about half of my mice are recent imports from the last year, so I can't take full credit for them. I'm just maintaining what others have achieved and hopefully I will improve upon that in coming years by crossing them to what I have achieved!


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