# Olive Rodents' first litter!



## genevie (Mar 11, 2012)

My first intentional litter was born on March 25th to my pied beige dam & agouti sire, who passed away on the same day unfortunately. Seeing as this was only the second time I've raised baby mice, and given the tragedy I'd had with my boy's death at the same time, I wanted to wait until I was 100% sure that everything was going well until I posted  These are all pet type mouse for pet homes; one is staying with me (Aurora), two have definitely homes lined up (Ash & Alaric) and the other three have possible homes lined up (Amélie, Alice & Annabeth). As their names suggest, I've nicknamed this '*the A litter*' - probably going to go for an alphabet theme for each litter.

The mother, Lucy Fabray, a day or two before birth (eating a few more biscuits than I'd intended as they all spilled out into the bowl!):









1 day old:









2 days old:









4 days old:









5 days old:









6 days old:









1 week old:









8 days old:









Individual 8 day pics (including Aurora's botched over-lit one):









10 days old:









And today, 16 days old (just Annabeth here!):









I'm really happy with these little ones  Everything's going really well, they're in their hopper stage right now but they're not being too rambunctious. The mother has become more reserved since having the litter but I'm still hoping they'll pick up her friendliness seeing as they are for pet homes.


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## onionpencil (Jan 6, 2013)

nice!. i like the little head blazes on some of them.


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## genevie (Mar 11, 2012)

onionpencil said:


> nice!. i like the little head blazes on some of them.


I really have a soft spot for those little head blazes, I had similar markings on some of my first mice who passed away last year so it reminds me of them


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Huh. I cringed in the first photos seeing those two runts, but in the individual shots it's not as obvious which ones they are. Gotta love small litters!


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

I was able to spot the smaller ones all the way up to the 7 day photo - not a good thing. One looks much worse than the other, but both look pretty bad to me. You can see in the one week photo that two of them had noticeably shorter fur than the other mice. I would certainly not adopt out, breed or even keep alive any that look like that. They will probably always be weaker, and may even die around weaning age. If I were you I would cull them straight away, it's honestly better to put them out of any misery now.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

Well then, remind me not to post pictures of one of my current litters if that's the response I'd get..
Congrats genevie on the lovely looking litter! I personally love aurora and alaric (pied blacks and pied agoutis are common in my litters). They all appeared to have grown really well!


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## TwitchingWhiskers (Feb 2, 2013)

I apologize if I came off that way, I have definitely seen worse. In my opinion it's better to be safe than sorry, and cull early on. I'm sorry if I upset anyone.


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## pro-petz (Nov 14, 2012)

As the pairing was done intentionally for pets they look nice but must agree with TwitchingWhiskers the chances of them catching up with the other siblings is slight and as such if were adopted out likely to always be on the weaker side and thus prone to any illness, and would also probably struggle to survive even the slightest of infections.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

TW, you didn't upset me - don't worry.
I usually live by that rule, cull the runts and this is the first time I'm soon it differently and I hate the idea that now I'm doing something wrong by keeping a runt doe.


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## Frizzle (Oct 6, 2011)

Cute litter! I wish mine would have as pretty of colors as those. <3

I did want to add that if the pictures with the runty black are current in your other thread, something should probably be done about it. Maybe ask a friend to help? Head over to the culling section? I didn't want to highjack the other thread, and figured it's somewhat a relevant topic over here...

Besides that, its awesome that the rest get to live happy little lives as pets. : 3


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Darn it, my post was lost for some reason.

Summary: No one meant to offend (TW I didn't find your post at all offensive). Keeping runts isn't the norm as we aim to breed healthy mice. In my first litter there was a runt and people here kindly explained it was best to cull her, so I did fearing she wouldn't thrive. This forum has a great reputation of being open minded. I agree that culling should be considered here but if not, at least inform the new homes (if they're being rehomed...) that they are not likely to live as long as their siblings. They may also be more prone to illness. I'd personally keep them and not place them if culling isn't an option.


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## Cordane (May 22, 2012)

I apologise that my response was "harsh" and sounded like I took offence to what TW - I didn't.
While I agree that culling the runts is usually the best option, I figure if the runts still continue to gain as much or even more than his/her siblings then there is no real reason to cull. 
I have had runts who were obviously smaller than their siblings but by 3 months were as big and sometimes bigger than their siblings.

The reason it did upset me a little was purely because I have an obvious runt in my current litter who I am not going to cull, (unless she fails to thrive) and the post came across as "You should cull runts because more than likely they will suffer if you dont" suggesting that I'm ok with allowing a mouse in my care to suffer. 
I took the post a little to personally which again, I apologise for.


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## Seafolly (Mar 13, 2012)

Culling's definitely a touchy subject, even for those who are well practised at it. We all want to do right by our mice. I've only had that one runt that I chose to cull so I can't speak from experience but I'm sure there are some cases where the runt is okay (probably not to breed from though). I think what TW was pointing out was they are still obviously runts, thus aren't catching up as quickly as they should be if they're going to end up as big as their siblings.

I personally hesitated when people suggested I cull mine. It was a doe and there were only three other does so surely she had a chance, I thought. But it was clear to me that even though it was worded the same way (putting her out of her misery) I still got the message it was no slight against me, just the experienced breeders knowing how the story likely ends and warning me about the possibility. You've been at this long enough to know the possible pros and cons so I don't think anyone's judging. But for a first timer, it's important for them to be clear on what they're risking.


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## genevie (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm not interested in getting into a debate about culling, but in my opinion it's very presumptuous to imply that all runts will live unhealthy lives. I have had runts before, both rodents and also a cat, who have not been any different to their non-runt counterparts. I may be new to breeding mice, but I'm certainly not new to keeping mice and keeping/breeding rodents in general. In the hamster fancy, my introduction to the world of rodents, it's never considered acceptable to cull offspring and my ethical beliefs have, in part, stemmed from that. It's not something that's likely to change any time soon. Those who are adopting my mice are getting constant updates on them and how they're developing, so they'll naturally be well aware of them starting off smaller than their siblings. I wouldn't adopt out any unhealthy mice but as it stands now, the difference between the two runts and the other four is barely noticeable. I don't mean to come off as defensive, but I do what I consider to be best for my pets at all times.


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## andypandy29us (Aug 10, 2012)

lovely babies


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

i like the colour of the light baigey one.

If you havent allready Id deffanatly make sure the people having the smaller ones are aware they are runts, some may think they are some sort of small varity. i brought some does and after getting back with them it became apperant one was a runt as it just didnt grow propperly and was allways skinny, kept her as a pet but sadly had to put her down reasontly due to health problems. She was a friendly little mouse but more fragile.


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