# New Mice!



## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

I took a trip to Holland and picked up some new mice. I want to say a big thank you to SiaMeece who was wery friendly  it was nice to talk to someone with the same hobby!

Also a thanks to Henry Van Raaij, even though i am not sure he reads inhere.

The first one (cpb fox) is from Denmark, I just got her today. The splashed mice are from SiaMeece and the rest is from Henry




























Black buck



























Black extremecarrier doe



























Splashed buck



























The oldest splashed doe



























and the youngest



























"Karamel" (danish spelling) My sister named him, SSP satin



























And a SSP doe



























I am very pleased with them


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## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

Great pics, you really know how to handle the camera  Henry's mice are, as always, simply gorgeous!


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## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

They are, but yours arent bad either. Poeple over here are very impressed and Malene (who is also in here) who got the other splashed buck and a doe was also positively surprised


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

very nice. but I've heard different things about Henri, mostly bad. Mice are often very unhealthy and should be barren. I myself bought some and they're all very quickly died. So I hope that yours are healthier!


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## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

WOW the tail on that black buck!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:


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## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

Sharon_ I know that and I have already made matings with the 2 bucks even though they are only 6 weeks (but the does they are mated with are over 12 weeks) just to get a better chance of offspring. I really hope they wont die before I get something else to work with.

tinyhartmouseries: I know... I am used to poor danish types, so i really feel so lucky that I got these!


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

They are all beautiful! I especially love those blacks.


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## Galaxy (May 25, 2011)

I like the fox! Didn't know you could get them in that colour. What I want to know is why isn't there a red fox variety????


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## The Boggit keeper (Mar 5, 2010)

Aww,Congrats, those are some super Mice! Super pics too


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## ccoryjohnn (Jul 2, 2010)

OMG THOSE TAILS...


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

There isn't a red fox variety because the c^ch that dilutes your a^t from tan to white does so by diluting your orangey colors.


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## Galaxy (May 25, 2011)

Ok. Thanks Laigaie. I guessed that was the reason.


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## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

I think you could get an apricot fox, but not a real red one.

And thanks all, I am so happy with them and really hope that i can breed to keep the standard and of course make improvements. it is nice finally to have a good base for breeding mice worth taking to shows.


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

You can have a red fox. With the recessive yellow gen


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## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

really? wouldnt the c-locus dillution remove the red colour in that too? and if not, why? Pictures maybe  ??

btw, the splashed buck died yesterday  I have no idea why or of what, but the others seem fine, so I think I have just been very unlucky with him. He must have had a stroke or something, because the evening before he was normal and running in his wheel.


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

I haven't seen it myself, but i heared it's possible with a recessive yellow. Because yellow fox is at/a e/e cch/cch


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## Galaxy (May 25, 2011)

So sorry to hear that, Anne!


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, if recessive yellow can be foxed without the cch wiping out all the red on top, I suppose JadeGuppy will eventually find out. She's got a lot of those lovely recessive yellow satins, and just had a litter out of her fox doe.


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

That's what I heard about recessive yellow fox, so I hope I got correct information


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## Galaxy (May 25, 2011)

Where did you read it, Sharon please?


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## Anne (Mar 21, 2011)

It will be exiting to see if it shows to be true.

Right now I am a little skeptic, but it could be cool if you are right!

Galaxy: thanks


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

I didn't read it. I heard it when I had a conversation with some dutch breeders.


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## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

Being a Dutch breeder I don't find that a very convincing argument, simply because there aren't that many breeders of recessive red in Holland, let alone experienced ones  American forums may be a better source of information on recessive red, still, I've never read anything about red foxes being bred from recessive red and the chinchilla gene. So imho I can only conclude it's not possible.

An interesting suggestion for red fox, on one of the US forums, was to breed Aw (Agouti white bellied) to recessive red. Getting an Agouti white bellied may be a minor hiccup though...


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

> I've never read anything about red foxes being bred from recessive red and the chinchilla gene. So imho I can only conclude it's not possible.


You are correct. It doesn't matter whether the red pigment comes from the dominant red, dominant brindle, tan or recessive red genes, it is all the same pigment (called pheomelanin) and is therefore *always* diluted to white or cream when in conjunction with the chinchilla gene (or any c-locus colour). 



> An interesting suggestion for red fox, on one of the US forums, was to breed Aw (Agouti white bellied) to recessive red.


I would suspect that the Aw gene would have much the same effect of reds as the tan gene; which when bred with dominant red makes sable. Although I think the Aw would produce a washed out marten sable type of thing rather than a proper rich sable. I have no experience with recessive red, so I don't know what Aw/* e/e would look like.

Fake red fox could be made by breeding red or fawn selfs and selecting for the palest bellies every generation. Self bellies naturally want to be paler, and it's up to the breeder to make sure that doesn't happen for showing. So it wouldn't be a true fox and it wouldn't look as striking as a true fox, but you'd have a red mouse with a pale belly. Alternatively you could try and reproduce the fox effect with recessive spotting but that would be INCREDIBLY difficult :lol:


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## Galaxy (May 25, 2011)

well the only solution is: is to make a red mouse outfit and then we can a red fox :lol:


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## Sharon_ (Jul 6, 2011)

Ok. Then I'm sorry. I've got wrong information  So thanx to correct it.


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## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

you don't have to appologise  that's the fun thing about forums, discuss things (that have been claimed)


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Absolutely


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## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

SarahY said:


> Fake red fox could be made by breeding red or fawn selfs and selecting for the palest bellies every generation. Self bellies naturally want to be paler, and it's up to the breeder to make sure that doesn't happen for showing. So it wouldn't be a true fox and it wouldn't look as striking as a true fox, but you'd have a red mouse with a pale belly.


True. I even found a picture  scroll down to the third post.

http://www.fancymicebreeders.com/mousefancierforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=857


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