# Tail Bitting!



## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

All has been going great, both Ivory and **** have been great mums and babies all ready to leave. Ive been putting mums in with a male for a few hours a day as i dont want the male breeding with the girls who are leaving so couldnt put him in with them. Well something happened yesterday and i compleatly forgot **** was in with the male, so she was in there longer than i had intended. Put her back and all seemed ok just extra sniffing. Any way someone had pigged out on the food last night so gave extra food today and i noticed ***** toe looked sore, then i noticed ivorys tail tip had been nipped. so i checked over the babies and 3 out of 4 had also been nipped on the tip of the tail but one had no marks at all, so i sat and watched them in hope of seeing who had nipped the tails allthough i had a good idea of who it was. Then when 3 of the babies were eating in the house one started crying so i took off the lid and there was the baby with no marks holding and eating the others tail! I couldnt beleave what i had saw, ive seperated out the tail eater and tended to the poor little girl. she has lost some of her tail but the bleeding has stopped and after a while settled down, understandbley everyone seems a bit on edge.

Could it have been because **** had been away for longer and/or someone pigging all the food that cuased this? or is it just a case that there is something off about her?

Either way she will not be rehomed now as i feel it would be unfair on the new owner and there mice if she was to do the same thing again.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

To be honest, I would`nt over-react. Mice who do this can just be reacting to (as you say) something unsettling. It could be dominance over something, a reaction to the male scent, or just overcrowding. Either way, I would definately give her a chance to be with other mice. If you don`t want to breed from her, you could pair her up with another female and ask if someone wants them as pets? Or she could be monitored to see if her behaviour is that of a dominant nature. Obviously you can`t have her biting and cutting other mice up and when blood is drawn, it`s not a good sign, but was she actually sitting eating this other mouse`s tail, or did she go inside a box where the others were and that`s when you heard the squeaking? If it was, then she`s obviously went in there to either eat or cause trouble.

It`s one of the babies causing the problem right? It`s strange that such a youngster should start acting bitter like this at such a young age though. Even males don`t normally start being nasty to one another until they are well older, if they do at all that is, many don`t.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

it's a habit the same as whisker chewing and if it was mine I would eliminate it from the breeding program and I wouldn't rehome as a pet.Keep if you are unable to cull but if it was mine I would cull.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

How do you know it would be `unfair` to a new owner unless they are not prepared to give her that chance? If she`s just going to be a pet, she could be paired up with a neutered male or other females. She`s only a baby for goodness sake! I could see the point if she was a savage adult causing mayhem (and that too would have a reason behind it) but it seems it`s easier not to take the time to work with her and give her that benefit of doubt. The males` scent could have triggered this and it`s a shame that some of the others were bitten, but she obviously had a reason for acting this way and it could have been human error. Taking away the females, mixing them with a male and then adding them back. Might have been better to wait until the youngsters were away before mating the mums again?


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I wouldn't pass on a problem animal myself.Cull or keep ,my opinion which doesn't need to match yours.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

A problem animal? Your branding her before she`s even had a life? :? I would at least keep her back and try her with some other youngsters and see how she gets on (but not with breeding females). Reading what PPVallahunds posted, it seems to me that all was well until the two adults were removed. She was fine before this.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

tail biting is a problem,why should someone else be lumbered.As I said my opinion doesn't need to match yours,if it was mine it would be gone whether young or old.It's not mine so the choice rests with the owner.As mice are prolific and the poster is a breeder why would they want to select a problematic animal to retain.If you set sentiment aside it is sensible to keep those not exhibiting this trait.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Personally I wouldn't keep an animal that is mutilating it's cagemates and nor would I home such an animal to a pet owner.

Sarah xxx


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

The OP is a breeder of mice, not just a pet owner. Therefore it does not make sense to keep such an animal . That is just my opinion, one that happens top be shared by other breeders.

keeping pet mice is different than breeding mice. simple as.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

thank you all for your opyions.

she is 5 weeks, which is why im so consurned that she is showing this sort of behaviour at this age. her and 2 other babies were sitting in the house snuggling up and nibbling on food and she just picked up the tail and started eating it. she wasnt showing any sign of agression or even chacing befor the biting just sitting fine one minit them bitting the nearest tail (except her own of course). Everyone else has bites on there tails and the poor girl has 2mm-3mm missing.

I dont think its fair to rehome her as it would put the new owners mice at risk if she did it to them and the way i see it why should other mice suffer. I had an adult in the past who started biting and i gave it a second chance and tryed to pair it up but it ended up severly hurting another mouse so i dont want to repeat history and have other mice suffer. I see what your saying racermouse but i dont feel right with risking other mice, but thats just my opyion and we are all entintled to differ.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

I do want to say racing mouse that I understand your feelings.I wanted to show dogs.I couldn't bare to part with the puppies though and out of 3 litters I only let one go and that broke my heart.I just loved them as soon as they were born.That's why I now have a house full of dogs and my bitches are speyed . I am a pet dog keeper now days.I can't put sentiment aside with my dogs and it just doesn't work.When they pass on I will confine myself to rescued dogs.I do relate to how you view your mice.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Of course guys, I do try to see things from both points of view. I do agree that a problem mouse could be more work for either yourself or someone else and if you can (I would`t be able to) put sentiment aside, you probably deal with it yourself.

I`m going to `try` and steer away from the breeding posts now because although I enjoy reading and answering some posts, I do tend to see things differently because I want to help, but obviously breeders will do things the way they see fit, so there is no point in me saying do this or try that. Maybe some people would like to try, but I don`t think most members would because they keep mice to breed and not necessarily as pets (although some do on a smaller scale).

The main reason I answered this post was because it was posted in Behaviour, so I did`nt think I was speaking out of place telling a breeder what to try, but because the mouse is in a breeding situation (i,e, may have been sold or passed on as a breeding female herself) I can see the worry PPValahunds might face.


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## PPVallhunds (Jul 26, 2010)

you can post wherever you want racer mouse, i value your opyion as much as anyone elses. I use to be attached to all my mice but after getting my heart broken too many times i dont get as attached to the ones i keep anymore (if only they lived longer) and try not to get attached at all to ones i know i wont be keeping as if i did i would end up keeping all and being over run. The animals i get attached to i cant even bare to pe parted from, hence why my old budgie use to come on a 4hour drive to go visiting my family with me, so i see where your comming from, if i had been attached to her i would of put your advice into partice.


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

and I'm sorry if I came over a bit strong racing mouse,I don't want to put you off posting,you've added some good stuff and been very helpful to other members.


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## racingmouse (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks. I just tend to get cross-posted sometimes when I reply to a breeding themed post and because I usually give advice that might sound as though I`m against what the person is doing, I don`t mean they should`nt be doing it, I just want to add another voice to their train of thought incase they want to take that on board. 

I`m a really compassionate person when it comes to mice because I don`t like to see them being treated like throw away items and you do come across some people who think like that. But then I doubt I would have any influence over that sort of mindset anyway. :roll:


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