# Horrendous skin infection? Illness identification *Graphic*



## fancyteddy1 (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm posting this here in hopes that I can avoid this ever happening again. I'm going to give all the details upfront - I know this looked horrendous, but I expect to not be chastised. I give my mice proper care, I love them, and I get them vet treatment whenever necessary.

Moo (black and white) began showing signs of aging very quickly after I had bought her. She was the last mouse left at the store (petsmart) and being a Petsmart employee (of a different store) I know that the mice don't sell well at all. She was an adult when I bought her, and I suspected about a year old. About three or so months ago her fur began to thin, she had scarring from some relentless URIs that I never seemed to be able to get under control despite treatment. Aside from the thinning fur and occasional reoccurring respiratory problems, she didn't show any signs of illness.

I bought Penny (RY) from a petstore with Hershey (Choc) and Bailey (not pictured). Since buying these three I purchased four other mice from that store who atrophied and past away within two weeks of leaving the store. Penny appeared healthy except for a slightly ruffled appearance of her fur, which later disappeared.

Penny, Hershey and Bailey lived together, and Moo and another of my older mice (since passed away) lived in another tank. After Moo's buddy passed away, I introduced her to the other three. They lived fine together until about a month ago when I heard lots of squeaking. I took Hershey out, because I had reason to believe she was the bully. This is also when I began treating for a mites as a precaution (due to the appearance of Penny and Moo's fur). About a week later, Penny and Moo had some bites on them (Penny's was deepest, Moo's were quite superficial) and Bailey was perfectly untouched. So I took Bailey out and reintroduced Hershey to Penny and Moo. Two days later, Hershey had a huge raw patch on her hind end (pictured).

I also put some mouse-safe anti-itch gel on Hershey's raw patch to help reduce inflammation, ease irritation and keep it from getting infected.

I then was away for a week. When I came back, (week 3 of mite treatment) Hershey's 'raw patch' did not appear to have healed at all. Moo had lost almost all of her fur on her back, and still had the little scabs from the bite wounds that I saw when I removed Bailey from the group, along with a large laceration next to her eye (self trauma, from scratching?) and a bump that looked like an abscess. Penny's fur was so greasy, it looked wet, and under her neck and between her front legs was entirely bald and raw. This is when I took the photo. Two days later (it was Saturday night and the small animal vet is closed on Sunday) I took them to the vet.

The vet said he could not identify what had caused their condition without doing skin scrapes and tests, but he had no way to keep them comfortable before or during treatment, and that they were definitely suffering. My biggest concern was that I didn't want them to be in pain. So all three were put to sleep.

The vet couldn't confirm whether or not this was a freak-mite-infestation, and seemed to lean towards it being a combination of parasites and something else very contagious. Two of my other mice are now beginning to show similar symptoms, and I'm worried that I'll lose them as well. Has anyone else ever seen anything like this, that has flared up in such a short amount of time (1 month)?

Any recommendations of precautions I should take to protect the rest of my mice? I'm continuing mite treatment (as per the info on TFM's homepage) and topically applying a mouse-safe anti itch gel (pramoxine) to the irritated areas of the mice who are showing symptoms similar to that of OCD scratching. I've also been soaking Penny, Moo and Hershey's old tank in bleach for 2 days, rinse, bleach for 2 days, rinse, soak for 2 days, rinse, soak for 2 days, neutralize ammonia and soak for another 2 days (as suggested by vet) and throwing out all their toys.

thanks.


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## visitor (Jan 8, 2011)

Have you treated for a fungal infection? 
Mites and fungal seem to be the commonest skin complaints so i would treat for both to rule them out.

The only other complaint that springs to mind is mange.


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## fancyteddy1 (Mar 14, 2013)

I was thinking of demodectic mange as well. The strangest part, IMO, is how Hershey got that huge raw patch SO quickly. I've never hear of anything like that. At any rate, I think I'll be taking Ophelia (one of the other mice that has irritation on her ears due to scratching) to the vet this week. At the very least he should be able to identify what the culprit is so I can treat or avoid it in the future. I haven't treated for a fungal infection because I have no idea what the best way is to do so?

Thanks for your reply


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## visitor (Jan 8, 2011)

Here in the UK we would treat fungal with Imaverol. I`m not sure what the Canadian equivalent would be, but over here it`s marketed for treating cattle/livestock for ringworm. Do an online search for `ringworm treatment`

For mites we`d use Ivermectin, which i imagine would also work on mange.

Athletes foot powder would be ok to use for treating minor fungal infections too, but the Imaverol would penetrate to the hair root much better, which in such a severe case would be needed.

I have had Guinea pigs with ringworm and they do get nasty looking very quickly. They get raw patches that scab over. It can easily be transmitted to people too.


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## Serena (Dec 29, 2011)

I would suggest some long-term antibiotics, too.
Even if the primary reason for the skin lesions is parasites or a fungus, they get contaminated quickly and you have a bacterial infection.
Mice can have all sorts of nasties on their little paws.
I had a similar, but not so bad case, that only got better once he received baytril (in addition to the standard mite and fungus treatment). i treated him for 3,5 weeks until he was well again.

that's my little fellow- he's not as bad as yours, but even that wouldn't heal without antibiotics.


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## AnnB (Jan 14, 2011)

I've had three mice with this OCD scratching now and believe me I've tried everything to find a cause/cure. I routinely treat all my mice for mites so that was the first thing I could rule out, I then changed their substrate and also ruled out every grain in their diet causing an allergy. I tried athletes foot cream and powder and had them on a course of Baytril too. I had the vet do skin scrapes and biopsies and whilst they did rule out mites and fungal infection, they didn't pinpoint a cause.


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## madmouse (May 19, 2012)

Do the raw patches ever get slightly moist or oozy? The raw patch on the mouse's haunch looks very much like a topical yeast infection. I had petshop mice years ago who had this condition and it was so itchy that they gave themselves all sorts of wounds and scabs (much like the ones you picture around the mice's faces). It spread extremely quickly, both from animal to animal and from location to location on an individual. I did not figure out what it was until I met a lady who had herself had problems with yeast skin infections. On her advice I slathered them with Monistat (OTC 7-day cream for feminine yeast infections). It worked very well, even for those with 30-40% of their bodies infected.


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## fancyteddy1 (Mar 14, 2013)

Thank you all for your input.

With all the maybes floating around (and being serious maybes at that!) I've decided to definitely take Sam and Ophelia (the two mice showing symptoms now) to the vet early this week. Whether it's fungal, bacterial, mites, or even mousepox I don't think it's going to go away without serious treatment with (likely) prescription meds from a vet. I don't want whatever it is to spread to all my mice and have to lose them! 

Thank you again for your ideas and the photos helped a lot too, it's been hard to find images of similar conditions in mice online! What was the initial cause of your boy's scratching?

I'll be sure to update the thread when I have more info after seeing the vet.


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## Serena (Dec 29, 2011)

In my case I think it was mites. there were no lesions that had me think of a fungus, the treatment was more of a "cover all possibilities" approach.
I treated him with ivermectin 4 times (every week) and cleaned the cage, toys, etc thoroughly, but he didn't get better. So a vet suggested I give Baytril for at lest 3 weeks and the problem went away. (it was well after the last ivermectin treatment, so I think that really did the trick)
the condition is called bacterial pyoderma. Mostly it's a superficial one, but it can become deep and go further into the body. It can be a primary problem, but mostly it's secondary due to scratching (parasites, fungus, wounds healing, ocd). The scratches get populated with the bacteria from the surroundings and the mice's paws and create the pyoderma.


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## fancyteddy1 (Mar 14, 2013)

Well, after two more visits to the vet, he has no diagnosis for poor Ophelia, my PEW satin doe who is showing beginning symptoms of whatever this is.

He checked for all sorts of parasites, including ear mites and couldn't find a thing. I got an anti-fungal, anti-bacterial corticosteroid (pretty sure it's corticosteroid but could be wrong) cream to apply topically 2x a day. That seems to have stopped, or at least slowed, any spreading. I think she's scratching less because the wounds have been able to scab over, as opposed to being open and wet looking. He also recommended spritzing her once a day with the ivermectin dilution (as per dilution directions on thefunmouse homepage), which I haven't quite done; I upped it to 2 or 3x a week instead of once a week.

On the second visit he still couldn't diagnose, and recommended dipping a q-tip into the ivermec dilution and applying it right on the affected area under her ears once a day, along with the 2x application of the cream at a separate time of day. He thinks if we can get her to stop scratching, the wounds will have a chance to heal and become less irritated, and she'll feel less of a need to scratch. Problem is - how do you stop a mouse from scratching?

As per his recommendation, I attempted to make her a cone. She wouldn't have it at all. She's a very easy going, sweet mouse, but she absolutely panicked in the cone. I couldn't leave it on her to "tough it out" for fear that I'd wake up to a dehydrated, trapped, injured or dead mouse in the morning.

So for now the poor thing has to live alone as to not spread it in case it's contagious (I _so_ wish this wasn't necessary.. she's so social, I'm worried she's going to get depressed). I've given her lots more toys to try to keep her mind off of scratching, and am trying to have her out more than usual so I can stop her from itching.

Since she's been separated from her friends, she's been sleeping in very odd places.. On her wheel, and on TOP of the bars that support it. It's strange behavior for her, could it indicate depression? Her fur also seems to be thinning out around her head. 

Her strange new choice of napping spot..









In the "cone" I attempted to make her. Her fur is all scraggly because I'd just put the cream on her ears and she smeared it around.. but you can see what I mean about the fur thinning (it looks much worse in this photo because of the cream). I think all the topical remedies are contributing to it, as she's probably over grooming trying to get it off.


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