# Walking with head tilted to the side



## Lime Green Mouse

I came home tonight to find disaster after disaster in the apartment. The snake had broken out of its cage and eaten TWO, not one but TWO of my mating mice, the rabbit had knocked off his water bottle, one of my sick mice had finally kicked the bucket, blah blah blah. The worst though was when I looked in on my precious little pups.

One of my 4-week old angora pups has started walking overnight with her head tilted to the side. She has trouble figuring out which way to turn to right herself, has trouble drinking out of the water bottle, and sometimes falls to that side. This can't be anything besides a neurological disorder, could it? Could it be an ear infection or something fixable? I'm really worried about this because so far both parents and the rest of the litter had seemed really healthy and strong. This came on very quickly and I'm scared about what it implies for the breeding safety of the rest of the pups and the parents, one of whom has basically fathered all of my feeder mouse litters since none of my other males have felt like mating (except the one the snake ate, darn it!). If it is neurological, does it necessarily mean that I have to stop using the rest of the litter and the buck and doe? Should I continue breeding the parents to see who was responsible, or just cut them both out now before it gets passed on? Can it be bred out by the healthy mice? I was hoping to sell these cuties as pets, but couldn't live with myself if I sold someone a mouse that then developed the same thing.

The buck was pretty old and a red eyed white with long hair, but my best breeder; the doe was a very skittish long haired white mouse with an agouti spot on her bum, but a terrific mother. The only change I've seen in either of them is that somewhere in the past day or two the doe has started keeping one ear folded in toward her head, and the other out and healthy. Could that be related? None of the other pups are displaying any symptoms at all.

Thanks in advance, guys.


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## Lime Green Mouse

I should add that she isn't circling. :|


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## Cait

It could well be an inner ear infection. If so you can treat with antibiotics but must do so immediately or she may be left with permanent problems. If you decide to cull her instead then you will never know the cause and whether to breed from that line is subject to the possible problems you outline above. Whereabouts are you? Perhaps you could get some new mice to breed from, since it sounds like you are having inbreeding depression with your current lines anyway from what you have said.


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## Lime Green Mouse

I'm not culling her, but if it's genetic, I might cull her siblings. She'll go to the vet today if I can scrape together the money for it. How is an inner ear infection treated? It's happened so suddenly, I really would have to do something very quickly.

I'm located in Texas, and would love new mice to breed from, but my finances are a real set-back right now. That was my first generation out from the parental one, and were bought at different locations, so I would be surprised if the fault was in the inbreeding rather from the last breeder's work. I don't have lines just yet, heh, they were my first litter with any mice of my own (all my other litters were at work with scientific strains).


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## moustress

Very sad. You need to use locking tank tops or bricks or something to secure the tops. Snakes can be quite strong and cunning. Sorry for your loss.


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## Jack Garcia

Lime Green Mouse said:


> This can't be anything besides a neurological disorder, could it? Could it be an ear infection or something fixable?


As Cait said, it could be an inner ear infection. It could also be a broken or fractured neck bone. Old fashioned metal wheels are good ("bad?") for this but it could have happened a myriad of other ways. The mouse needs to be seen by a vet immediately or euthanized, either way.

This is unpopular to say, but I will say it anyway: Since your finances are so very limited, and you're potentially starting out with inferior stock, perhaps reconsider breeding mice in the first place. Contrary to popular belief, it is not cheap by any means to properly care for mice, as any trip to the vet or other costly medical ailment will show you!

The only thing that's "cheap" is the mice themselves, so people often get the wrong impression that it must be cheap to care for them. They don't realize that giving adequate care to a $2 mouse can be hundreds of dollars a month, especially if you start out with illness-prone petstore animals! 

I don't mean to discourage you (believe it or not, lol), but it needs to be said that giving good care to mice can be quite costly.


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## SarahC

I get the odd one that does this.I personally wouldn't worry in one case.As a breeder of anything, less than perfect individuals are bound to turn up.I would cull, but removing from the breeding program will achieve the same .Only time will tell if it's inherited but it would be very premature to think sur snake also got out once,squeezed through the narrow bars of a mouse cage that had lots of mice in.Ate all but two and was then to fat to squeeze back out


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## Jack Garcia

After hearing these stories I am _so_ glad I don't have a snake! :shock:


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## WillowDragon

Me too :shock:


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## EmtheFishLady

moustress said:


> Very sad. You need to use locking tank tops or bricks or something to secure the tops. Snakes can be quite strong and cunning. Sorry for your loss.


I had a wild snake come in the house last year just to eat my birds. He ate my two best breeding Canarys, and my male strawberry finch. I ordered his head to be chopped off. :| I really hated doing that, but I figured if I released him outside he'd just come back, knowing what yummy snacks were waiting inside.

Lime, so sorry to hear about your little mouse.


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## Lime Green Mouse

Thank you everybody! As far as the snake - he has clips, but apparently is strong enough to pop them off, so we're buying a better method tonight and he's got a wealth of dictionaries and text books to contend with for the time being (and a belly full of mice). It's just one of those things that comes with owning lots of animals - sometimes they don't get along. :\

Jack - I'm in no mood to be told to start over, sorry to be blunt. I am poor because I already have invested around 300 or so on bottles, cages, drawers, bedding, etc., and because I just lost my job. I am fully aware of the cost of mice, as I've been keeping them for years. I will not be able to afford "quality" stock for a long time, but refuse to believe that these are inferior. They came from a breeder too, you know, just one who sold to the pet store. I'll buy show mice when I have another job, okay?

Thanks everybody for the advice, I'm pretty bummed about this.


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## Toast

I know how bummed you are. I have a wire lid cage and my cats always sat on it, but one day, I came in and my cat was sitting IN the cage, delightfully trying to catch the remaining of the two mice, who I learned only lasted because he was buried in the bedding. The cat ate my favorite though, and it wasn't even my fault. It was my (older) sister's cat, and she had left my LOCKED cage open. My mom made me pay for a new mice (which was cheap) and I had to clean up the cats little bonefilled present (from both ends). Nice? Huh?


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## Jack Garcia

You're very welcome. 



> ...but refuse to believe that these are inferior...


You are seeing a mouse who is in poor condition; there's little about "belief" there. A mouse with a potential ear infection, broken neck, or neurological problem is obviously an inferior animal to have as part of your foundation stock. It is an animal who needs immediate treatment or euthanasia. If the kink in the neck is an inheritable condition, all of this mouse's relatives are potential carriers, so Cait is absolutely right when she suggests perhaps getting new mice to breed from. If you are unwilling to wait until you're financially able to do that, then you can likely expect more mice who are in poor condition. Nobody wants that. 

Our primary responsibility as pet owners is the well-being of our animals--everybody agrees with that. Part of taking care of our animals is affording them proper care, especially when they're sick/injured. At any rate, do keep us updated on the mouse with the tilted head.


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## moustress

My cats are sooo bored with my mousery. The Stupid One this comes in there because it's warmer than the rest of the house by a couple of degrees. She watches the meeces just because they are there, sort of like my relationship with the TV. I like to have something to ignore. (For some wives, the husband serves that purpose, but mine is pretty fascinating.)


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## Jack Garcia

Haha! During summer days when I have the doors open, the neighbors' cat comes in. He completely ignores the mice and goes after the birds. I suppose they taste better.


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## WillowDragon

Hehe Everytime I clean out my mice and I have the doors open, I turn around and my neighbours cat will be there watching in rapt fasination!! He has never attempted to come in though, which i'm glad for.

Willow xx


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## Jack Garcia

Yeah, I think the neighbor's cat would probably be _fascinated_ with the mice were there not also birds in the same room. This is the same cat who routinely brings me dead deer mice (Peromyscus sp), so I know he has a taste for them!


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## WillowDragon

He must like you if he brings you presents!! hehe

Anyway... sorry for changing your topic Lime Green Mouse!! I really hope your mouse turns out to be okay!!

Willow xx


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## Jack Garcia

Yeah me, too, and I hope so too! *fingers crossed*


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## moustress

Mr. Snake probably has a growth spurt in his future.


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## EmtheFishLady

Lime Green Mouse said:


> Thank you everybody! As far as the snake - he has clips, but apparently is strong enough to pop them off, so we're buying a better method tonight and he's got a wealth of dictionaries and text books to contend with for the time being (and a belly full of mice). It's just one of those things that comes with owning lots of animals - sometimes they don't get along. :\
> 
> Jack - I'm in no mood to be told to start over, sorry to be blunt. I am poor because I already have invested around 300 or so on bottles, cages, drawers, bedding, etc., and because I just lost my job. I am fully aware of the cost of mice, as I've been keeping them for years. I will not be able to afford "quality" stock for a long time, but refuse to believe that these are inferior. They came from a breeder too, you know, just one who sold to the pet store. I'll buy show mice when I have another job, okay?
> 
> Thanks everybody for the advice, I'm pretty bummed about this.


It'll get better. You'll replace the cage top and he won't get out again, so no more free mice treats for him!
Try not to get down, set backs happen to everyone.


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## moustress

Early on I made some stupid mistakes that made me just howl. I still screw up on occasion.


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## Toast

Well, thats conforting.


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## Lime Green Mouse

Just an update - I had put the little mouse on Tylosin, since no other antibiotics were readily available, and she is showing a lot of improvement. I'm waiting to celebrate until the whole course is finished, because I've seen some critters look like they're getting better and then bite the dust, but in the meantime I'm pretty excited for her.

Fingers crossed!


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## EmtheFishLady

Lime Green Mouse said:


> Just an update - I had put the little mouse on Tylosin, since no other antibiotics were readily available, and she is showing a lot of improvement. I'm waiting to celebrate until the whole course is finished, because I've seen some critters look like they're getting better and then bite the dust, but in the meantime I'm pretty excited for her.
> 
> Fingers crossed!


Mine too! Good Luck!


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## moustress

That's just great,Limey (is it OK to call you that?)

While I too have made the sad decision to put down a sick mousie on occasion, it's a judgment that's always hard. Taking care of a sick mousie is hard work and I feel that giving a mousie another few months of life can be well worth the effort. Considering how short their lives are, that's the mousie equivalent of years! (I should post my 'ugly' mousie in this Forum).


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## Lime Green Mouse

Yeah, you can call me Limey. It's an insult, right? I don't know, I'm not British heh, not many things bug me, though. Em calls me Lime and that seems to be workin'.


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