# Splashed Tans, why doesn't it work?



## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

Hi, 
I am quite familiar with breeding Spl/* and breeding Tricolors, as some of you probably have noticed...
But there is one question, I am still struggling with.

Just as a reminder: 
1. The dominant Splashed gene Spl/* recovers melanine synthesis from c-dilutions in the Spl/* dots of the fur. The result is a c-diluted mouse (eg beige ce/ce), which has black dots from the Spl/*.
2. Any c-dilution deletes the yellow /red pheomelanines in a mouse. Therefore a Tan, which has two alleles of c-dilutions, has no red belly, but a white belly.

*Why doesn't the Spl/* recover the Tan belly at the Spl/* dots on the belly?* 
Spl/* recovers black dots at the belly of c-diluted mice, but *NEVER EVER* red dots from Tan.

Any scientific /physiological explanation is very much appreciated.

Best regards, Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

oh, I forgot to tell, that Spl/* is very well able to recover red pheomelanines at the back of a mouse. I breed Splashed Argente Cream with promissing results:








Nevertheless I never get red dots from Spl/* at fox bellies.

Roland


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

I have had splashed/tricolor tan mice with tan spots on their bellies....belly splashes and spots are just not super prevalent in splashes and tris to begin with....also few people breed splash/tri with tan, so getting tan splashed/tris with tan spots on their belly doesn't happy very often.


09-10-12 163 by Stina_83, on Flickr

This is not the best example and its a poor photo....but you can see the tan on her belly.


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

I've had tan spots on the belly of tricolor mice many years ago, as well.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Guppie told me it was not possible; I didn't believe him then and I don't believe him now. I wanted to breed blue tan tricolors. Thea^t/ c^ch ought to revert to tan in splashes, at the very least. And it seems that you have done that, Stina! Congratulations on your achievement!

For whatever it's worth I noticed the the new Finnmouse Genetic Pages makes no mention of the tricolor/splashed mousies. I think that speaks volumes in and of itself.

All the things I've been told were not possible with tris have turned out to be possible; maybe that's emblematic of my intuitive feel for the phenomenon. And in case I haven't said it enough, I am so grateful that there are folks other than myself working on the problem/s. In order to get the right answer, you must ask the right question.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I have splashed foxes. 

It's . . . kind of like splashed tan. :lol:


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

splashed fox is the same thing as splashed tan. I prefer to call it tan, as splashes and tris are called by their base colors, not their c-diluted shades (i.e. black tri, blue splash)...so to me blue splashed tan makes more sense than blue splashed fox...since the splashing reverts the color anywhere it occurs...including the tan on the belly


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## Roland (Aug 17, 2009)

Hey,
that is great news! I could not find an explanation, because it is not true. So again theory and reality fit well. 
Great, thank you for your anwers.

I would appreciate a belly foto, if someone has one or could make one.

Best regards, Roland


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Are you sure it's the same thing all the time?

My splashed foxes have extremely white bellies.


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

Rhasputin said:


> Are you sure it's the same thing all the time?
> 
> My splashed foxes have extremely white bellies.


The c-dilute changes the tan to white making it fox. Not just a poor tan.


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## Stina (Sep 24, 2010)

yes, and you won't see the tan unless there happens to be a splash on the belly


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I think it's more appropriate to call them them by the diluted most color, since with out the dilution, there would be no reversion. I've been referring mine as beige to black, and so forth. It's nice to speak the same language and understand what other folks are saying.

Of course there's the matter of extreme modifiers....I still haven't figured out if they will revert from dark to light. Probably not, but who knows?! And then there 's the question of eyes...

You guys know I still scour the internet looking for tidbits of info that are 'dumbed down' enough for someone like me who, lacking a even a BS (only an AS in computer science and math), can actually understand the gist of things. Here's juicy bit I found. I haven't finished plowing through it as of yet, myself, but maybe some of you have more book smarts in this area than I do.

http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/vaop/ ... g2883.html


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## WNTMousery (Jun 2, 2010)

What "extreme modifiers" are you talking about? You are so vague most of the time.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Okay! I thought you meant it would only change it to a 'poor tan' shade.  
Makes a load more sense that it's diluted tan.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes, it only makes sense that the dilution of tan by c^ch might revert if there are splashes in the belly. Now what I wonder is if marking types wold revert on the tan belly in the presence of c^ch. jI lvoe the idea of a marked tan tricolor. Roland's marked tan merles are the closest I've seen to anything like that! I still have to stop and gaze fondly on Roland's avatar every time I see it.

I need to think some more about how tricolor and brindling works....I think I've got a general idea...diluted brindling looks like color on a light background, from what I can see so far. The background color is diluted and brindling does what...? I got white backgrounds with black brindling, and white backgrounds with chocolate brindling...time to go back to the notebooks and try to track what was done a little more exactly.


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