# Working on argente tris



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Argouto and Argouta had a litter of three yesterday, which explains why Argouta only looked a little pregnant. I'll put up pix when the babies aren't pink anymore. Still waiting on the rest of the parents to be. *taptaptap*


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

Argente tricolors are difficult to achieve because of the linkage of the C- and P- locus dilutions. Good luck!

I look forward to the pictures!


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

The first litter were unexpected colors; an umbrous yellow and an albino, neither of which were expected, as the parents of both the buck and the doe (bro and sis) were an argent and a tri. Tri apparently hides a lot of stuff, and I knew the buck could carry albino, but I've never seen an albino in any tri lines. Those crazy meeces!! The new litter appeared yesterday, and I'll keep you posted. The PEW in the first litter is a gorgeous long haired girlie, quite large.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

So you didn't get any argente tricolors?

(For those interested, here is a summary of why it is so difficult to get the C-locus and the P-locus to cross: http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/12/2/108.pdf )


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks, Jack. I have looked over the material, and, yes, It would appear difficult, but not impossible, to get argente tris. The new litter has four out of six with red eyes...yes, they could all be PEW's. But I see the percentages as being more in my advantage, especially since I am in these breeding projects long-term. If I don't have a line with the necessary crossover, I will have one within two years. I have a feeling for mousebreeding, and I am very, very, persistent.

*edit* Ooh, ooh...there's a red-eyed (I think it's red-eyed) tri in the new litter; can't tell the colors yet, but exciting nevertheless! It has both light and dark patches, though. The pigments are showing in the skin


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I've been thinking about it, and I'm not sure that the dilution on the P locus operates in concert with a dilution on the C locus; I think it may operate directly with the transgenic factor. After all, I have pink-eyed tris already, all the fawn beauties. It seems to me that the transgenic factor works equally well with the black eyed A^vy and the red eyed A^vy. Either that or there's already been a crossover, something that I'd expect to happen, if it happens at all, somewhere in four generations from the first cross of transgenic mouse to yellow mousie.

Hope you don't mind me airing my line of thought on you all. Having to put stuff in words helps me clarify my thoughts for myself.


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

moustress said:


> I'm not sure that the dilution on the P locus operates in concert with a dilution on the C locus;


Laboratories and individual scientists around the world are sure. It is proven every time anyone looks at a mouse's chromosomes under a microscope. The location and linkage of the C- and P-locus on chromosome 7 is scientifically certain and not up for debate. 

A crossing over of two linked loci like P and C takes many, many more generations than four; perhaps hundreds. That's why they're said to be "linked," i.e. inherited together.

Tricolor mice on any background often have pink (or ruby) eyes due to the C-locus dilutions present, not the P-locus. The eyes also may darken with age depending on which C-locus dilution(s) you're working with.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I disagree; the transgenic factor changes everything, and the fact that my yellow (fawn) tris don't all revert to black eyes proves it. The pp dilution may be essential in those cases, as a matter of opinion, although the c dilution may be responsible for the action of diluting the colors of the fur...and when you come right down to it, no one really knows yet quite how the transgenic factor works in all cases. Plenty of fun and room for conjecture from all quarters. (I hope you don't mind agreeing to disagree amiably.  )


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

It's not a matter of disagreeing; it seems to be a matter of one person just "not getting it." :|

Mind you, that person very well could be me, but if so I have thousands (or millions) of bioogists with me. :lol:


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Whatever. It's all for fun, really. Fun is Good. I'm perfectly prepared to be wrong; it's been known to happen on occasion.  Being told something can't be done is very empowering; that's just how I am.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Hee hee!! I'm getting averything BUT argente tris from these two agoutis!



I can't figure out what the grey baby is supposed to be...I'll know when the eyes open. It's so much fun to breed two who carry unknown stuff. they carry.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

That little guy looks Tri Merle? This is only from seeing pics of Merle mice of course since we don't have that gene in this country.

Willow xx


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

I have gotten some pretty startling marked mice from some of my experiments with the tri thing. The brindled/tri crosses are especially interesting and hard to explain. I had hope the tri ge3ne might make the colors pool, giving me a REAL tricolor, you know, like a real calico. I'll have to take some pix. I do have individuals who look very much like merle. That little baby in my post is another variation of a siamese-based tri. They all look different from one another which is kind of neat. I've had every thing from meeces that look almost like plain siamese to individuals that are mottled from nose to tail tip with no hint of white whatsoever. Now I'm determined to eliminate the siamese and breed no further from them, but it is really a head scratcher as to how this all turns out.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

That little tri with the crazy markings has red eyes; I can't wait for her to grow up so can breed her. I think she might be my very first champagne tri. Yeah, I know, probably just as unlikely as argent tri...but I stilll don't think that's impossible either. Since the transgenic element works with any dilution on the c locus, I see no reason why part of the fur couldn't revert from champagne or argent to the darker shades. The proof will be to see if the little dear's extremities develop points as she ages. I have another pairing that will probably give me another litter in this line in a couple of weeks. I'll get a new pic of her tonight.


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## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Here are the pix, a bit late; ain't it a drag when Real Life interferes with the important things in life?

This litter all looks good to me; nice size, a variety of colors and markings. And I love this little tri/transgenic girlie:


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