# General and Agouti Gene Specific Questions



## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm a _complete_ newbie to genetics (other than a brief look at GCSE level that sheds no light on what I need to know for mouse breeding it seems!). The little information I do have is all gathered from the Finn Mouse website. I have some questions that I think I already know the answers to but just want to check as if I'm wrong on these it could completely mess up any breeding I do :?

I want to begin breeding agouti mice, so their genes should be either A/A B/* C/* D/* P/* or A/a B/* C/* D/* P/* - providing I get good initial stock and all mice show at least a decent agouti phenotype, would the A locus be the only one I need to think about? I assume if there was anything else going on in the other loci it would show through on the coat (for example the chinchilla has the agouti gene on the A loci but the chinchilla on the C loci shows through). Also, of those two genotypes does A/A mean full agouti and A/a mean agouti phenotype but black carrier? Using the punnett square I'd assume an A/a x A/a would result in 25% full agouti, 50% black carriers and 25% black, and can the agouti carry anything else but black? How would that look in the genes? And do the *'s on the rest of the loci mean there's no gene variant there? Or that it's just a replicate of the other letter? (so C/* = C/C?).

That's a lot of questions, I appologise :lol: I'm certain I have more but I took a break half way through writing this and my mind has now gone blank!


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Agouti can carry a wide range of other colours and markings (and coat types) because it is high on the dominance scale and will 'override' other genes appearance-wise. So as you say, an agouti could carry black (plus lots of other self colours) but not show it. For example it could carry blue (D locus) and that would be A/*, B/*, C/*, D/d, P/*. Change the star on the P locus to a lower case p and you have an agouti carrying the pink eyed dilution (in combination with black this is dove or in combination with blue this is silver). I'm not sure if I am helping or complicating things now :roll:


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## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

The pink eye dilution part confuzzled me a little but I'm looking it up :lol: Thanks for your reply!


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## Wight Isle Stud (May 19, 2010)

hysqa- dont blame you for wanting to know the genes associated with Agouti- most of us have a good knowledge of genetics as its an interesting sub topic to exhibition breeding, and we all know a bit just out of interest. Dont forget if Agoutis are your fancy you can just go and get some from established breeders not a million miles from you.


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

You understand more about genetics then you think...the type of questions you have means your ready to try using a calculator. I've used several different ones in the past but my favorite is at http://www.gruen-development.com/html/download.html.

This English version of the software was just released, up until Feb this year I had to use the German version and have to look up word translations but it was worth it. You can look up genetic codes by color name and then change the codes and see what new color names you get by introducing other genes...it will also tell you the outcomes of your breeding pairs to some degree.

Between the Finnmouse site and this calculator and my mouserydatabase.com application I was able to teach myself a ton about genetics and mice.


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## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

I thought understanding genetics was essential to mouse breeding, I'm kind of relieved to know it's more of a side project =P I haven't got the slightest clue who breeds agoutis, I was under the impression the NMC yearbook had details of stuff like that but the list of breeders only contains their contact details, not what they're breeding. I'll have to have a poke around to find someone 

Loving that software btw Beth! Just downloaded it and I get the feeling I'm going to be using that a lot


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

The best advice I can give is to go to a show and talk to breeders of the variety you're interested in. You'll not only find out who breeds the best agoutis but also the downfalls and advantages that they have from a showing point of view. One person who comes to mind with agoutis is Dave Safe.


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## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

That's interesting, thank you! I plan to attend the Sowood show if I can (it's the weekend before my university exams start but I'm willing to take the risk ). I was thinking of trying to contact someone before that to see if I could arrange to collect my foundation stock but I think I'll probably just attend the show, focus on getting as much info as I can, _then_ look to collect stock.


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## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

Oooh that software angers me! Didn't realise until after I'd spent about an hour inputting data that it'll only let you put 4 animals into the database before you have to buy the full version! :evil: :roll: Great software but useless if you can't pay for it


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

> Great software but useless if you can't pay for it


Oh sorry, I only use it for the calculator so I never purchased it. I probably will in the future though because I do rely on it for the calculator.


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## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

That's ok  I'm going to have a search around for alternate software that's free


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## bethmccallister (Mar 5, 2010)

Mouserydatabase.com has a free version but to take advantage of things like a pedigree, photos, genetics, etc then it's $35 a year. Some people like to use Kintraxs too (not sure of the price) but I use a combination of things to get what I want. The calculator in the FancyMicePro software is THE best I've found so far.


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## motorbaby8111 (Apr 13, 2011)

i like ZooEasy Mouse Software


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## thekylie (Mar 6, 2010)

I just wanted to point out that the Mousery Database is entirely free now, and has been since late 2008 I think. I know I've never paid for it, and have been able to use the site with full functionality.


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## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

Yeah I was about to say I visited there today and have been able to crate a database that includes pictures and all sorts and there's been no mention of a charge yet  It's not as comprehensive as the FancyMicePro software linked earlier but it'll do


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## Laigaie (Mar 7, 2011)

Basically, because Agouti shows when you have at least one dominant in A through P, your agouti could be carrying very nearly anything, color-wise. Much like PEWs, the dominance of the genes in question overrides so much else that unless you get true-breeding agouti stock to start with, you'll occasionally or regularly throw pups of all kinds of markings.


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## hyshqa (Feb 12, 2011)

That's very interesting, thanks! So is there anything an agouti cannot physically carry? Or anything that is dominant over the A? (probably the same question?)


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

It can't carry red or fawn (dominant yellow), written Ay.


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## SiamMeece (Sep 21, 2010)

Agouti based bone (A-*/ce-c), beige (A-*/ce-ce), blackeyed siamese (A-*/ce-ch) and himilayan (A-*/ch-c) will not show agouti. A trained eye may recognise the agouti base ( I know I never could) because these mice are usually not the best in their kind.


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