# Opinions on the best type for a newbie please



## Debbie (May 5, 2009)

I wonder if you could give me your opinions on which type/colour, etc would be best for a newbie to start with ??
I know it is all down to personnel preference at the end of the day but, some colours must be much easier to actually get hold of, to handle, to breed, etc ?? This is for my sons little project and I ideally don't want to have too many either so, marked varieties are probably out the question. He really likes blues, doves and fawns.
Any advice would be great


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Sarahc is the one to ask about fawns but doves and blues could both be ok, though there is a lot of shade variation to contend with. I would say that of the two doves might be the best to go for as you haven't got the complication of getting the right colour on the feet and toenails.


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

I breed blues and they are beautiful but it can be challenging getting the details right.


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## NaomiR (Feb 9, 2009)

what "details" Ian do you mean the colour itself?


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

What I mean by that is trying to achieve the depth of colour that is required in the toes and the ears. Particularly the toes and toe nails you can have the perfect mouse with pale nails and it wont be able to compete to its potential. 
Thats the point of the NMC I suppose, mice have been bred for exhibition for over 100 years so I can understand that to win anything the mouse has to fit the standard with every hair, whisker and toe nail, but its bloody annoying!


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## Debbie (May 5, 2009)

Oh dear perhaps blues would not be the best choice for him then. We will just keep looking until we are sure we have found the right one, there is no rush  Are there many lilac breeders out there ?? I do like dark eyes and could probably sway him in the right direction :lol:


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## NaomiR (Feb 9, 2009)

but lilacs won't have dark eyes :?:


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

Its going to be hard with any variety to be honest but thats part of it, it shouldn't be easy.

Lilacs are black eyed I believe, arent they caused by both chocolate and blue dilution (according to finnmouse site)


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes Ian they are. However if Naomi's been reading American sites she may have gotten confused, because some varieties are different, e.g. dove and lilac have opposite eye colours to here. In the UK, a lilac is a black with chocolate and blue dilution (and is black eyed). They are hard to breed as they are not well established. I only know of one exhibition breeder although he hasn't shown any for a while so even he may have given them up.

The original suggestion of dove wasn't a bad one if you like those. Also PEW and black or chocolate tans could be suitable as a variety to start with. I'd avoid marked for now, though a self satin could be suitable and perhaps a few of the AOVs. It all depends on what you think you can look at every day for a couple of years and not get bored!


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## NaomiR (Feb 9, 2009)

YES American sites :lol: I've found much more information on mice on sites in the states but that could (obviously) be a problem :roll:

I think you should go for dove Debbie, or great big fat whopping satins NOT like my pet ones but big chunky ones - then Kai can still play with colours a little but specialise in 1.

As Ian said it is "useful" there are breed standards for us to aim for but I also hadn't realised the potential difficulties with blues I just thought blue to blue gave you blue - I am a banana :lol:


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Doves are the most beautiful of all mice with their soft grey fur and gem-like red eyes (not that I'm biased at all lol), but you won't be able to find any to start from, I rang round a number of people in my NMC yearbook who breed silvers or champagnes or similar and no-one breeds, or knew of anyone who breeds, self dove.

You'll have to do what I'm doing and make them up from other varieties that have the dove gene, ie silver, champagne, argente. This means a lot of extra work getting the doves perfect and it could be a long time before you have something showable! Not trying to put you off in any way, it's just that I've found it's not a variety you can jump in and show with. They are so pretty though, and well worth the hard work  

Of course, if you're not planning to show that's not a problem for you and if you decide to go for doves, I can hopefully give you some nice doves in a couple of months. My doves aren't show quality (yet!) but they are lovely mice, very nice natured.

Sarah xxx


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

Just wondering, would you consider Iris a self dove? I know she is nowhere near show quality, but she is my best tempered mousie. (ahm my favorite ahm)










Sorry to hijack your thread, it just sort of seemed to fit. :roll:


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## Debbie (May 5, 2009)

I must admit I do love the Dove colour, it is so beautiful and I have seen a satin in that colour which was pretty fab too. It certainly doesn't put me off having to work hard on them and Kai knows that it is going to be several months before he can really get out showing his own mice so, thats not a problem. It is also nice to go for a colour that isn't so popular I think.

So, if I am reading the book right (Tony Cooke) then he will need Champagne and Black to get going with ?? I know where there is a very nice Champagne buck  so thats a start.


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Silver would be better, using champagne gives the dove a warm, browny feel because of the chocolate gene. Loganberry stud has fab silvers, you should speak to her.

Sarah xxx


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## Debbie (May 5, 2009)

Oh ok, that makes sense


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## ian (Oct 3, 2008)

zoocrewmice said:


> Just wondering, would you consider Iris a self dove? I know she is nowhere near show quality, but she is my best tempered mousie. (ahm my favorite ahm)


She looks like a dove to me.


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

Okay, thank you! I wasn't sure on what to put her as.


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

If you're in the US she wouldn't be called a dove, as in America dove is black eyed.


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## zoocrewmice (May 5, 2009)

Hmm, our American ways are strange. :lol:

What would she be called, if not dove? These colors are so confusing, I may just stick to what you all use.


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## julieszoo (May 27, 2009)

Sorry to hijack and resurrect an old thread, but I noticed chocolate tans were suggested as suitable for a newcomer to the fancy. Would you say that foxes were also a reasonable choice? Of the permitted colours for fox I have to say that chocolate appeals to me the most too. I also like the silver agouti......


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## Cait (Oct 3, 2008)

I wouldn't really say foxes were the easiest to start with, no, ditto silver agouti. Both are more of a second variety if you're just starting to exhibit as there isn't much quality starting stock around so it would take some work before you could show those.


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## julieszoo (May 27, 2009)

I don't mind a challenge, selfs are lovely and all that but I have pew, ivory and cream rats and would like something totally different in the mice.  As a newcomer, I would be happy with something reasonable that I could work on, I'm not expecting to get to many shows as my calender is already pretty full with rats and cavies.


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## NaomiR (Feb 9, 2009)

why not a TOTALLY different self colour like blue or black?


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## julieszoo (May 27, 2009)

Blue are very nice, but have bred russian blue rats (and blacks by default) too, although I don't breed them atm.....

Decisions, decisions...


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## Halcyon (Mar 30, 2009)

go for Reds Julie   

I nearly went for reds, I also nearly went for agouti too!!! lol funny that 

I've settled on Creams and Blues so if you change your mind on those you know where to come 

Lisa x


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## dangermouse (Oct 4, 2008)

:love1 reds............ tying to get my own line of reds going at the moment too


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## julieszoo (May 27, 2009)

Aren't reds very difficult because they have some sort of genetic obesity problem? Bet they would look really pretty in satin. Lisa, I think you should breed some of those badger faced mice in blue......


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