# How Is This Possible ?



## jammin32 (Jun 14, 2012)

Ok i had a pregnant female in with a non pregnant female and a male. 1 week before the pregnant female gave birth i removed the male.
The other female was removed 2 days before the babies were born.
All 5 babies are big and healthy and are now nearly 3 weeks old and their mum is the size of a golf ball !
But my question is how is this at all possible ??? She has been alone with no males except for her babies.
Whats going on ? Anyone experienced this before ?


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Some mousies seem capable of ovulating a couple of days before or a couple/few days after the buck delivers. How this happens is a mystery. :?:

Perhaps there is a strain from lab tests used in research on human ovulation.

There are huge databases listing these things; I have browsed those until I was dizzy. :book4

My favorite was the strain that regrew body parts and passed the gene on to it's offspring. It happened by mistake in research on lupus e., if I remember correctly. That can be found in assorted popular science reports, and there are references for those who need or want to know more.

I know just enough to know what I don't know, ya know?


----------



## tinyhartmouseries (Dec 30, 2010)

I've seen most of my mommas gain their baby weight back after giving birth and keeping it for quite a while. I hope that's just the case.


----------



## jammin32 (Jun 14, 2012)

Well another litter was born last night but i still cant figure out how this happened especially when there definitley has not been a male anywhere near her.


----------



## thewesterngate (May 22, 2012)

Silly question, but it has to be asked, is there any way the non-pregnant female was a young male?


----------



## besty74 (May 26, 2012)

thats a great suggestion, he could be shy and hiding his manliness!


----------



## jammin32 (Jun 14, 2012)

No because when i took her out she had a litter approx one week later too so unless she is 50/50 lol i just dont see how this has happened.
Confused.com


----------



## thewesterngate (May 22, 2012)

The only other option is sperm retention, but because my specialty is reptiles..I have no idea if this is possible in rodents. I'll have to look that up!


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Sounds like you go_may_ have yourself a 'tweener' :| ;he/she may have both set of parts, only one is working, and it sounds like you may have a girly boy; look at the anogenital regions very carefully. A hermaphrodite would have an intermediate anogenital length with just a bit of swelling on either side of the vent.

Explanation is likely odd estrus cycles; they can vary more that you'd believe, and gestation can be prolonged as well. It's not a good thing, as the babies are often sickly, and sometimes retained, which is a very bad thing. If you have healthy babies, congrats! I wouldn't breed from that line anymore unless you are interested in mystery meeces.

I find them fascinating. These things happen to most of us if we keep a large number of meeces over a long period of time, especially in lines that have no been vetted and/or 'pedigreed'.

There's also the kind that looks male but is female. It is almost unheard of for a mammal to have functional part for both genders.
I'd have to look that up; I think you could too. This subject has come up in this Forum before, and there might even be some references in those posts. Or look it up on Wiki.

You will know more when these litters are fully furred.

Are you sure your cages are secure? Meeces are awfully danged persistent, especially the wild ones. Sure hope you don't end up with a batch of Half Wild Gootieeze. They are way too much fun.

You may be able to feel testicles in front of the vent; yes those little buggers can suck 'em up right into the belly. I've had males who were proven bucks that did that after being with a couple of does for awhile. I guess the chemistry wasn't there and the junk decided to get lost for awhile.

Males can alter their hormonal balance in response to stress, which in turn alters their ability to procreate. The process is usually reversable.

Since we''re only talking about a few days; it's probably just the odd estrus variation going on here. Young does, rarely, can conceive as early as 20ish days old. Not uncommon, though. I have a tiny litter of three that I can't explain that was born two days ago.

Bucks usually don't begin mating behavior until around 5 to 6 weeks, but that varies a lot as well, dependent on all too many factors to mention. I try to keep an eagle eye on litters from three to five weeks old, as the odd mousie will show precocious behavior, be it doe or buck.

And remember, there's no way to tell when/if an older doe is fertile (ot :/) .

Mammals are so much fun! Especially the meeces that come from labs. There are a fair number of those that have made their way out of labds into the fancy or into pet stores so it's hard to know what you've got when you go there. :roll:


----------



## MissPorter13 (Jun 20, 2012)

This probably shows my inexperience, but even if the supposed 'female' turned out to be a hermaphrodite, I still don't see how that could have impacted the pregnant females condition?
If they were seperated 2 days before the birth of her first litter, then how could she have got pregnant again _after_ giving birth without coming into contact with another male or hermaphrodite as the case may be?
Can they, like thewesterngate said, retain sperm (whilst already pregnant!?!?)?
Very confused but if you can put me right/correct me as to what's happening I'd be very grateful! :lol:

I suppose one of the ways to figure out the parentage would be to try and look at the coats/colours when they come through and then narrow it down to who could be the father by process of elimination.

Very interesting situation, though I imagine it's rather frustrating for you!


----------



## moustress (Sep 25, 2009)

Explanation is likely odd estrus cycles; they can vary more that you'd believe, and gestation can be prolonged as well. It's not a good thing, as the babies are often sickly, and sometimes retained, which is a very bad thing. If you have healthy babies, congrats! I wouldn't breed from that line anymore unless you are interested in mystery meeces.

The female can get pregnant in the few days before, during, and several days after giving birth. There are probably odd hormonl conditions that allow things to happen even outside that time frame.

That, combined with the fact that onset of fertility is so variable, and the odd individual mousie of one degree one degre or another leave a lot of different factors to be considered.


----------



## Alex (Jan 29, 2012)

Out of curiosity, how old was litter #1 when litter #2 arrived? The answer to that question might answer the question of whether the original male is the father of #2 or if there was an interloper interloping into the cage!


----------

