# Astrex babies :}



## Megzilla

Dam: Silver Astrex 
Sire: Argente Astrex

They're the biggest babies I have EVER bred! There were only 5 in the litter, mum wasn't big when she was about to give birth, so I think she gave birth to a small litter, instead of culling a huge load.
They're 6 days at the moment, and you can just about see their curls comming through 

4 days old:









Today:


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## WoodWitch

That's great news!!!
  

Please post on their progress.


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## Elven

Congratulations!


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## The Boggit keeper

Awww, they're lovely, Congrats!


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## Megzilla

Thank you! I'll keep you all updated, taking pictures every (few) days so you can see their fur and curls comming through etc


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## windyhill

Congrats!!


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## miss.understood

OMG OMG OMG have you any idea HOW much i've been after an astrex!!!!! you quite clearly need to move closer to me  they're gorgeous xx


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## Megzilla

*miss.understood* 
Where do you live? If you're in the UK then we may be able to figure something out 
I'm after a few more, because at the moment I only have 3 does and 1 buck. I'm planning to improve the curls


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## zany_toon

They are huge!!! And look at the little curly whiskers :love1


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## Megzilla

zany_toon said:


> And look at the little curly whiskers :love1


Hehe I know!! I'm having a look at them again today, and i'll take a picture if they've noticably changed  Would love to take a pic now but it's a bit too cold at the moment. Summer? What summer?


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## Megzilla

7 days old:








I think there's 2 Argente, 1 silver, 1 dove and 1 PEW
*All of them are female!!*










To give you some idea how big they are, the lenght of my hand from wrist to finger tip is 7 1/2 inches. (perfect for piano!)


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## miss.understood

I'm in northumberland hunni. I totally adore them! xx


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## miss.understood

first pic, page 2...the creamy colour on the right (middle) is adorable!!


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## miss.understood

Argente? is that the one i like?
Would be awesome if we could arrange somehow to get one up here for me!....i have 43 babies here at the moment, so if we could arrange something, you can take your pick if you'd like any of mine (except for my baby boy siamese....as i think Art would hunt me down and kill me! :lol: )


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## miss.understood

i think you're like 300 miles away from me


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## The Village Mousery

yeah i'd hunt you down hehe mine how can you tell they are astrex if you dont mind me asking the line down the babys backs? like the hair line am i making sence ?


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## Megzilla

9 days old:

From left to right
Pew Standard, Silver Heterozygous Astrex, (Dove) Heteroygous Astrex, 2x Argente Homozygous Astrex









The curl difference between the Heterozygous and Homozygous









Baby with the best curls

















Homozygous









Heterozygous









Astrex is a dominant gene. They have curly fur when they're young, and the curls drop as adults which sometimes leaves the coat with a slight wave. In Homozygous form the curls are tighter and stronger than that of Heterozygous mice. Their Parents were both Heterozygous, hence why there is a standard in the mix. Their mother and father both have slight curls left.
Dam (This picture was taken when I first got her- most of the curls have dropped now):









Sire(His curls still look like this):









Hope i've helped! Sorry if i've worded it in a way that's difficult to understand, I can simplify it if anyone wants 

Art, I would never do such a thing 
miss.understood, if I get this job I'll save up to trade mice  maby meet half way? Yes it's the Argente that you like


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## The Village Mousery

lovely babys very curly i like  thanks for telling me about the coat type its not something i've looked into


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## gerana

Cute little curls! Congrats! :love1


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## miss.understood

ooh that certainly sounds good to me, could do with a road trip to test the new car!!. they are soooo cute! xx


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## moustress

I really like the way astrex looks on an argente mousie. Thanks for the pix showing the difference between hetero- and ****-zygous astrex. Your pictues are very good.


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## Megzilla

*moustress*
So do I-it looks like wavey caramel 

*miss.understood*
If you're going past Manchester, maby you could get some of Matt's blues for me  only if he has some ofc


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## The Village Mousery

if your not going by manchester i may have some blue's but check closer the time as my doe and buck are from shiprat they are the same line so i'm waiting for the doe to come of age lol This is just a back up incase your on the east coast lol i have no idea where you are.


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## WillowDragon

I don't know whether its the coat or the fur changing the coat, but those Argente's look umbros to me! 

W xx


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## The Village Mousery

whats umbros?


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## Megzilla

WillowDragon said:


> I don't know whether its the coat or the fur changing the coat, but those Argente's look umbros to me!
> 
> W xx


One of them is yes  That one has the best curls, so i'm keeping her on to breed with her if the curls continue to be better than the rest. I would like to clarify though that i'm going to improve the coat, not the colour, As I'm aiming to move the colour towards a darker hue (I love Astrex on Black and Blue mice!!)

Just incase someone yells at me...

Umbros is when the top of the mouse is a lighter colour ontop. You can see on one of the babies that it's back is a lighter colour than that on it's sides.
(am I right?)


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## WillowDragon

Sorry I spelt it wrong... its Umbrous hehe

And not quite... Umbrous is a gene that is most visable in ticked mice... it basically makes all the black (or black based) hairs concentrate along the top of the mouse.
This is a good gene to have for Tans or Sables as it helps with the darkness of the top colour.

On Pink Eyed Agouti mice (Argente's) the black based hairs are diluted to a silverish colour, so an umbrous argente has the lovely fawn ticking on the sides, and on top is a pale dove/silver colour! hehe

I'm sure Jack won't mind me posting a pic of one of his umbrous argentes! lol Her name is Butterfly


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## moustress

I had thought that umbrous meeces were dark along the spine shading to lighter on the belly. Maybe I have it confused with sable. I might have those two types backwards in my mind...


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## Megzilla

*WillowDragon*
Ah Cool I understand now  I knew it was something along those lines :lol:

Do you think through breeding it in you could get the Umbrous to spread over the whole body?


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## laoshu

beautiful mice, have you got any photos of homozygous in aldults? 
I have not bred astrex for a few years now and to be honist I dont know if I ever bred two together (trys to think hard)..
I will have to go through my photos if I can find them!


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## Megzilla

No, the only adults I have are heterozygous- You'll just have to wait and see 
I hope the adult fur for homozygous is curlier.. It would make things far more exciting around here (not that it isn't!)


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## WillowDragon

Like all coat types, males generally have the best fur when adults... this is because they don't 'blow' there coat (molt) as often as females do.
Females molt (visably or not) pretty much every three of four days with there heat cycles.

If you ever plan on showing astrex, show them young.

W xx


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## Megzilla

Thank you, I have always wondered why Males keep their fur qualities (longhaired etc) better than females!
I want to show them when I get better curls-can they be showed??


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## Megzilla

Silly me I forgot to put my update in the last post xD

Here's pics from Yesterday
11 days old:

















Heterozygous








Homozygous









They all pretty much have their eyes open now  Also veryvery handleable, totally at ease in human hands (No matter how much you squidge their faces and poke them) ^-^


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## miss.understood

OMG....they are sooooo gorgeous


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## SarahY

Very cute indeed 

Sarah xxx


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## JustMouse

Baw! They're the cutest little sheeplings!


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## WillowDragon

Yes Astrex is standardised... in AOV I believe.


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## Megzilla

If I have any the right age, can I show some at the next enfield show? or is for NMC members?


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## The Village Mousery

you can only show if you are a NMC member i believe.


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## Megzilla

I heard the show in reading (was on the 4th of september) was open to everyone, and it was an NMC show


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## The Village Mousery

Open shows just mean you dont have to book in your mice before a date


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## WillowDragon

Most of the Enfield shows are *not NMC shows... they are LSCMRC shows (London & South Counties Mice and Rat Club)

You do have to be a member of that club... and all of their NMC shows are open, except for any Cup shows.

I think the LSC Club does have the odd open show where anyone can turn up, but not sure LOL

W xx


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## SarahY

> Open shows just mean you dont have to book in your mice before a date


You still have to book your mice in. Open shows mean you don't have to be a member of that particular club to enter 

Sarah xxx


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## The Village Mousery

god its confusing


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## Megzilla

I'll do more research when I get better curls and have money to afford the travel to shows! xD Other wise i'll want to show and can't 
Picture updates are comming when the camera has finished charging!!


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## miss.understood

still wants


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## Megzilla

When I decide on which one(s) I want to keep on, then i'll reserve you the rest if you like  This isn't the only litter of Astrex i'll have- just so you know


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## The Village Mousery

lol long travel to pick those up miss, unless someone can bring em to manchester in november? and of course if meg's willing to sell


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## Megzilla

If I get this job (chances are high!) Then I may just travel to Manchester for that show. If you and Matt have any blues around that time then I would love to get some then aswell! I will most definetly have another litter or two by then.


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## The Village Mousery

hahah cool will be great to see you there, and i'll take em back east to miss understood lol i think she may just fall in love with me now lol our lad will go mad he'll be thinking i got more mice lol i'm ment to be taking matts siamese to him from miss understood and coming home empty lol ahhh well hehe


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## Megzilla

Do you know anyone around your area who breeds:
-Hairless
-Black selfs (show quality)
-Astrex 
?


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## miss.understood

OMG i'd love you both if you could do that for me!!!!!


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## The Village Mousery

no meg sorry i have a fuzzy pew buck thats about it and his pet type, i may have pew/ivory/black eyed creams avaliable as my show type doe's pregnant. got to wait a week or two more before i put my black fox and blue doe to the blue buck so maybe have some blues or blacks from those pairings its just wait and see if they ready to leave mum in time. And to be honest Matt will have some too as my doe is the same age as his so he'll probly have some around the same time too.. Oh and any blacks will carry blue and fox and dont know how they will turn out type and size wise.


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## Megzilla

I have 2 Fuzzies, but they have the snuffles and have been in quarentine in my room for AGES. May not breed from them, but we'll see.

*drool* Fox.. One gene i've always wanted to get my grubby hands on 
I'll let Matt know that i'm interested in stealing some of his mice at the show (If i'm going). Really hope I can-I'm getting really excited! Are the mice you're going to breed all show mice? I want to get well typed Astrex mice who are as big and good as possible. These babies are pet x show cross (hence why they're so fat!).
Oh my goodness, can you imagine black fox and blue fox on a Astrex?? (': I can't get over how cute these babies are! I'm going to take pictures now


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## miss.understood

.....you can't say that and then not put the pics up!!! meanie lol


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## The Village Mousery

The fuzzie i have is a buck pew with very little hair atm i'll update pics soon. They just opened there eyes but its clean out night tonight so incoming pics alert.

i have choc and black fox doe's and a chinchilla buck hoping to get a blue fox from the upcoming pairing.

i'm thinking in 2 to 3 weeks of doing the following pairings:

Blue and black fox doe's to the Blue buck.
hoping for blacks carrying blue and fox from the black fox and all blues from the blue doe. of course if i'm very lucky the black fox may carry blue and i'd have blue fox's.
Choc fox doe to the chinchilla buck. Hoping mainly for more chinchilla's and maybe a fox.


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## Megzilla

Will they all be show type? If so I fancy getting some Astrex chinchillas!

13 days old:

Hiding under my hand (they love it!)









Heterozygous









Homozygous









I keep on missing this lovely girlie out ):









I do this every day with them while I watch friends (woo!). They fall asleep and start twitching in their sleep-bless 'em. 









There you go! Told you I would post pictures up


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## miss.understood

hehe yay!!! deffo want one or two  xx


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## The Village Mousery

yep my fox's, chin, blues and pew/ivory/creams are all show type.  My stock comes from Joe bennett(really lovely man) and Matt (animal crazy bloke).


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## Megzilla

*Artuntaure*
Shot gun Blues, Chinchillas and Foxes from you!!!
Are your Blacks show type aswell?

*miss.understood*
I'll pm you about future litters and you're reservations on them


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## Megzilla

Alright.. Train tickets range from £66 to £149.. don't think i'll be going to the Manchester show ):


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## miss.understood

ok x


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## The Village Mousery

hmm do you live near anyone that could be coming up though? like secret garden or sarah


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## Megzilla

Art, I don't think so ):

Day 15:
Just had play time with them  Here are a few group pictures
























































They are such little darlings, they make it so difficult to take individual pictures. If im holding one, the others will clamber onto me and try and get to my hands, or anywhere where they can sit next to my skin haha.

Right, here are the solo(ish) pictures.

Heterozygous (Light Dove/Dark silver) Doe 'L'









Heterozygous (Dark Dove) Doe 'D'









Homozygous Argente Doe (The most Umbrous) 'U'









Homozyous Argente Doe (The least Umbrous) 'A'









I'm finding it hard to choose which one of the Argentes I should keep ): Here's some comparison pictures of the two:

































I'm stumped. Before i had chosen 'U', but their curls are very similar. 'A's face is less pointed, and the hair is thicker/curlier. Does anyone have a picture of a really good Astrex so I can aim to breed to that? If you were me, which one would you keep??


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## miss.understood

They're are gorgeous I'm so jealous!!! I deffo need to get me one of these for my breeding program....then that would be tempting to have a pair though wouldn't it?! xx


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## GypsyTails

They are absolutely lovely! Of course I'm partial to curly butts! Personally, I like U. In the pics, U's ears appear bigger and better set, which is what I'm working on in mine at the moment so I may be a little preoccupied.


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## Megzilla

GypsyTails said:


> They are absolutely lovely! Of course I'm partial to curly butts! Personally, I like U. In the pics, U's ears appear bigger and better set, which is what I'm working on in mine at the moment so I may be a little preoccupied.


You also breed Astrex?? 
I'll take more pictures tomorrow to try and get a good picture of each one's head and face. I was originally going keep on U, but then I became unsure lol.


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## WillowDragon

What colour are you going to be breeding these in? Or just going for any??

For type and curl, I would choose 'U'... but umbrous in some colours really doesn't work.

W xx


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## Megzilla

I'm planning to breed it into Blue/Black and possibly chinchilla one day (and I think if I have the room then keep the dove gene)
I have other does to breed from though.

At the moment, i'm just going for any, I want to improve the curls a tad more before I bring in a bunch of new stock for colours.


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## WillowDragon

If you are just aiming for type and curl, then I would aim for PEW astrex... that way you don't have to worry about colour!


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## Megzilla

Okie doke  so shall I pick 'U'?


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## WillowDragon

I would


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## GypsyTails

Yep, yep! That's what I'm aiming for over here in the US. I have some heterozygous Rex PEW maturing, and also a Dove w/ dilute litter at the moment bred to be used in my endeavor! I love "curly butts" as I call them, but I want some type to mine! You know? Fluff is cute but it only goes so far. :lol:

I like U the best. Don't you love the feel of their coats at this age?


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## Megzilla

Sad that you aren't in england, otherwise I would 'borrow' some for myself :mrgreen:



GypsyTails said:


> I love "curly butts" as I call them, but I want some type to mine! You know? Fluff is cute but it only goes so far. :lol:


Yeah, I understand. I'm getting some more show types in so I can out cross. I hope after some time i'll have some lovely well types Astrexs that look very much like nice shows.

Oh I love the feel! I run their backs along my lips because then you can really feel it 

I looked at belly curls yesterday, and if I can remember correctly A has far stronger curls than U. Is it something to consider at this stage?


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## Megzilla

*miss.understood*
I've sent you a pm


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## Megzilla

18 days old:
































(the darker dove looks very dark in the last picture)

Here are their tummys:

































I know that I should go for U, but i'm getting doubts. I preffer the ears on U, as A's ears are folded, even when she's happy and inquisitive. A seems to have a fluffier coat, as it stands out more, although it is still curly (the pictures doesn't really show this). U's curls are tighter against her body, so in pictures she looks like she has better curls. on A's rump the curls are much tigher than on any of the others, but then again that isn't consistant to the rest of the body. The belly curls on A is better than on U. 
Could it be possible that U is a shorthaired and the rest have longhair? You can see the guard hair in the last picture of A is quite long. This is also the case with L and D, but it shows less.

I think i'm goign to go for U, but I thought i'd just check  Does anyone have a picture of a (show) Astrex? Could I enter them into the Swindon show? Even if I don't win, could I get some advice from the judge? Or will I be told off for showing a bad coated Astrex??

Sorry for the questions  I want to learn!


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## WillowDragon

The curl on L is nice, and the ear set too


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## Megzilla

So sorry, I forgot to put updated comparison pictures of the Argente's 

























































And Just to show the longer guard hairs on A


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## moustress

Wow. Just, wow. The argente appears lit from the inside and glowing orange all over. I just love it!


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## SarahY

I think it's a bit early to be choosing personally, you'd be best off evaluating them at six weeks old at the earliest. Mice can change a lot by the time they're six weeks old; the ones you liked to start with could lose all their curls or grow up thin and snipey looking, some that you might not choose to keep now could be stunners as adults.

When I have trouble choosing mice to keep I evaluate each feature of each mouse individually on paper, rating everything out of five. These would be things like ears, head, eyes, tail set, thickness and length, colour shade and evenness, belly, size, weight, and on it goes. I would usually do this at about 8-10 weeks, but I appreciate you might not want to wait that long if you are selling the others as pets.

Hope this helps you and good luck with your plans! They are lovely looking little babies :love1

Sarah xxx


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## Megzilla

I'm not choosing for sure now, i'm just seeing which mouse is a better type throughout their different ages 
I will need help with choosing though, the only other curly haired mice i've seen are through here and they all come from different countries, and not all/none of them were Astrex-I really don't know what to aim for as far as coat texture goes. All I know is tight (even) curls.

As far as assessing goes, thank you! I've just done it through a quick list and evaluation in my head, but I'm not 100% sure what to look for. I have a few show mice in my shed, so I atleast have something to compare to  I'll look closer into their features when they're older- probably just before I sell them. If it goes as what i've planned, then they may depart from me at the Swindon show. If not, then i'd like to hold onto them a bit longer.

Thank you, I know they're not fantastic as far as Astrex goes, but I do love everything about them 

Much appreciation for everyone's help ^_^ x


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## miss.understood

I'm so chuffed that my curly babies are going to be making their way up counrty to me!!! yay! xxx Thank you so much to those helping them on their travels xxx


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## Rosewood

Awww, they're so gorgeous!


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## kerryann

really wish i lived closer to you  x


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