# Effects on argente



## Dino (Apr 17, 2013)

I have a question on breeding argentes; What other colors can be used to enhance the top colour and what effect do they have on the undercolour? What colours are best avoided in breeding argentes?
My personal goal is an argente with a slightly darker, more redish top colour then the standard dictates and still a nice blue undercolour.

Also, I have two mice I would like to use in my argente texel line;
An agouti buck, because he has a great type, far better then my current mice. But he is very dark, especially on top. He is from a siamese line which was outcrossed with black.








(Also the mouse from my avatar)

And a red-eyed sable doe, because of lack of argente (and other red-eyed varieties), I currently only have agouti which carrie red-eye. She is also wonderfully redish, so I hope she'll make the argente top colour more red as well. 









I'm planning on breeding these two together and using their babies in my argente texel line (which are currently only agouti astrex that carry red-eye), but I'm not sure what effect these two will have and what to select for in their babies colour-wise. But I'm still putting more emphasis on type in this stage, so I would really like to use the buck for sure.

Can someone help me figure it out?


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## Dino (Apr 17, 2013)

No argente breeders who could help me out?


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## Oca2 (Jan 1, 2009)

To be frank I would not use either of those mice. Let me explain why.

Agoutis tend to produce too dark argentes. Instead of the delicate blend of silver and fawn you might end up with a splash of dark dove gray, which honestly isn't very attractive. Self background (e.g. black) in agouti/argente mice tends to "suck out" all the red pigment, which is definitely not what you are trying to achieve. I have made some argentes with agouti x dove crosses, and while it can be done it took generations to fix the colour. Agoutis have one good use and that is getting back the undercolour if you ever lose it. Even then I would be careful to select a mouse that is not too dark (especially in the back) and doesn't have too heavy ticking.

Sable mice would introduce another kind of problem. Sables are bred to have a very dark top which gradually changes to red towards the sides. Argentes on the other hand should be even in colour (re: difference between the back and the belly). Using mouse from a sable line would produce argentes that have a stripe of darker grey in the back - a fault that is very hard to breed out. Another more minor problem you could get is tan. While tan belly in argentes doesn't necessarily show that much (being of a similar though not identical shade to the top colour), an "argente tan" would not have the desired blue undercolour in the belly.

What you could use is fawn, which would be great if you desire more reddish shade of argente. Again you might get tans, but I would consider that a manageable if annoying problem since if you know to look out for it you can just pick not-tan mice to keep in the next generations. I can't really tell you much about fawns since I haven't personally used any.

Another option is dove, especially one that is considered "too light" in colour. Doves often have very good type if you are looking to improve that, and too light a colour seems to be quite a common fault so you should have no problem finding some. Just contact a breeder and tell them you are looking for a mouse that has all the other desirable features, but is too light in colour. Dove, being a self, is again not too good for the red pigment but using one that is too light counteracts some of the other problems with selfs (i.e. too dark colour). Another option would be champagne (better for red pigment, since they are supposed to be of a warm shade), but you might end up with "champagne argente" mice (A/- b/b p/p) in subsequent generations. These would have an undercolour that is champagne instead of blue, a serious fault.

Argentes are a little tricky since you can have so many different shades and so many different things affect the colour. If you have the space and patience I would encourage you to try out different things and see for yourself what happens. Even if you end up culling a generation or two for experiment that didn't work I guarantee you will also learn tons.

Hope I was able to help!


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## SarahC (Oct 3, 2008)

Fawn bred argentes that occur naturally look like the second mouse pictured,dark.Drawbacks are that they are sometimes muddy,have white feet and smallish eyes.The undercolour tends to be decent.Best to avoid breeding anything with champagne/choc in,it ruins the undercolour.


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## Dino (Apr 17, 2013)

First I like to say thanks for the replies  Bit late huh...

I haven't used either mice, that left me with no mice to make argente  So now I finnaly got a buck from a breeder (was really hard to find XD);










He is to light? He does not have silver guard hairs, so no shot silk effect? Are the feet wrong? 
I love him for his temperament and his ears  I'm glad he has some type (that's hard to find to over here LOL).

So of course he carries chocolate.... I paired him with a dove tan banded texel satin with good tan and not to dark dove I think (hard to tell because of the satin). She of course had to carry chocolate too 

The whole litter;









Champagne? tan ♀








Doesn't look as brown in this photo as she actually is. She's the 2nd one from the left in the litter photo.

Champagne? argente tan ♀ Top baby on the right









Silver? tan astrex ♂ Bottom baby on the right 








I don't think mother carries blue, could this be a very light dove?

Argente banded astrex ♀ First one one on the left









Champagne? banded axtrex satin ♀ Middle one on the right









Dove tan astrex satin ♂ 3rd one from the left


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## Dino (Apr 17, 2013)

Anyone like to share their opinion?


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## fancyteddy1 (Mar 14, 2013)

Very very beautiful litter!!


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