# Breeding rules?



## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

I was just reading SarahY's topic about her Dove Selfs, and this part caught my attention:



> The most important thing I can impart to anyone starting a line of doves is never, ever breed champagne into them, or start a dove self line with champagne crossed to silver (which is the recommended starting point in most mousey texts). Yes, the type is awesome and show champagnes and silvers are fantastic mice, but the headache incurred by trying to breed out the dastardly chocolate gene is huge. Doves that carry the chocolate gene, or at least the modifiers that make champagne so warm, are muddy coloured, like a dirty puddle, and champagnes will appear in litters for generations. I regret using mice that carried champagne to start with, and I'd probably have started all over again if it weren't for the many other good points my line has (type, head shape, tail thickness).


What other 'rules' of breeding for show are there? Just curious because I hope to show soon and I don't want to slip up and create bad types!!


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

My God, there's _millions_ of little rules! :lol:

Are there any varieties you'd be specifically looking for advice on?

Generally speaking just don't mix colours up (ie don't outcross a blue line to a chocolate mouse) because carried colours will affect the variety, almost always negatively. Also, keep any outcross or experiment seperate from the main line until you're sure that it hasn't caused any damage.

Don't worry about messing up, we all do it and that's how we learn 

Sarah xxx


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm looking for Blues, Extreme Blacks, Champagne, Doves and possibly Siamese at the show on the 4th sep, and those are the colours I most like  'tis my wish list!

I won't be a serious exhibition breeder for a while and want to make do with as little stock as I can (even if I only show 3 mice per show) So i was wondering what I can cross with what to make use of a bigger genetic pool, but without making lines rubbish


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## SarahY (Nov 6, 2008)

Well, from that list only blues/blacks and blacks/Siamese could really go together without damaging each other for the show bench. Other options are things like dove/silver, agouti/cinnamon or any variety and it's satin counterpart (ie PEW/ivory satin). You've just got to choose things that are similar.

Siamese is an OK choice for breeding with black because both varieties need to have very dark extremeties (feet, ears, tail and nose), but breeding black and dove together will ruin the black as doves have pale extremeties. Any blacks born from this pairing will be nowhere near as dark as their black parent.

Sarah xxx


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## Matt Haslam (Mar 13, 2010)

sound advise from Sarah

i was told not to mix dark with pale colours. So black can work with blacks,chocs,blues etc, but never with paler colours like doves,Chams etc. I agree that it may work with Siamese tho.


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

Never cross hairless and fuzzy.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

Would pairing blacks with siamese help the pointing of the siamese to be darker?

Thank you for everyone's help so far


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## Rhasputin (Feb 21, 2010)

I've heard that crossing extreme blacks with siamese will help make nice dark points.


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## Megzilla (Oct 12, 2009)

I've heard that someone tried it but I never heard if it worked or not


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## Jack Garcia (Oct 9, 2009)

megzilla92 said:


> Would pairing blacks with siamese help the pointing of the siamese to be darker?
> 
> Thank you for everyone's help so far


Yes absolutely, this mouse is ae/ae ch/ch, that is to say an extreme black Siamese. She's in varying degrees of moulting in these pics:




























Her eyes are actually brown, not red. The camera makes them look red.

With proper selection she (and her many children I have) could be much darker, and much better Siamese but I don't breed for Siamese. They're sort of just afterthoughts and I've been giving them to people as pets whenever I can.


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## WillowDragon (Jan 7, 2009)

I personally would advise picking one variety from that list and concentrating on it.

If you try and work on too many things at once, you will never get truely amazing mice for the showbench.
Once you gain experience and start winning, then think about expanding into another variety that complements the once you already have, like the advise above, only certain colours should be bred to one another.

Not alot of People stick to this advice, but i'll give it anyway. LMAO

W xx


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## windyhill (Jan 19, 2010)

So many rules,lol

Since Im not breeding for show(currently) I breed sevweral colors, but once I get a few show mice, then I wont breed as many colors.


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